Forums > Senate Hall archive > SH Archive/Name change for Jacen Solo
This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made in new Senate Hall or Consensus Track pages rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record. Please remember that mass speculation is redundant and that we only need to wait for the next book to come out, which should explain everything. Greyman(Talk) 06:15, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Some users and I are having a discussion on the Talk:Jacen Solo page on whether we should change the article's name to Darth Caedus. I am opposed to the name change, since we do not yet know the final fate of Solo, whether he will live or die as Jacen Solo or Darth Caedus. As I state on Jacen's talk page, suppose we do change the name to Darth Caedus now. What if we discover May 13th (or whenever whoever it is can give us spoilers) that we were wrong? Then in my opinion, the move would have been a waste, as it would just be moved back to Jacen Solo. The ones in favor of the name change, have good arguments for the change, such as the fact that in the preview for Legacy of the Force: Invincible, Jaina Solo mentions that Jacen is demanding to be called "Darth Caedus". So I am putting this forum up so more people can discuss this issue.--Jedi Kasra 23:08, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
- I am for a name change out of the reason that we can't have a policy telling us not to keep the Wooki as up-to-date as possible. In the most recently published material, Caedus has started asking other people to use his new name, thereby making it official. His article should reflect this. Charlii 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
- I am also all for changing Jacens name 2 Caedus. He has admitted it to his family and other characters, and since that is public, the name deserves 2 be changed. And if Caedus is redeemed to Jacen, then all that we have 2 do is just change his name back.--Darth Revanon 7:52, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, there is that policy. But, say the KotOR comics reveal that Revan has a name other than Revan, (though personally I think his name was always Revan, despite the nickname "The Revanchist"). Would we change Revan's article's name to that? No. Jacen Solo is more commonly known as Jacen Solo. He only started asking people to call him Caedus. And it's not like we have to wait three years before we find out if he becomes redeemed or not, we only have to wait ten weeks and a day,(earlier if someone gets the book early) before we find out whether he becomes redeemed or not. The books do refer to him as Caedus, however, but the same could be said of Dooku, he always referred to himself as Darth Tyranus, but no one ever called him that. How about Palpatine? People called him Darth Sidious, but his article is under Palpatine.--Jedi Kasra 03:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
- Jedi Kasra, please realize that we don't deal in "what ifs" and "maybes". If he is indeed going by Darth Caedus publicaly, then change. It doesn't matter if he "might" be redeemed or whatnot three months from now. If someone wants to start a vote on making an exception on policy (i.e Kreia) then do so. I don't know what's going on in the books but that's just Wookieepedia standards. --Redemption
(Talk) 03:33, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
- Jedi Kasra, please realize that we don't deal in "what ifs" and "maybes". If he is indeed going by Darth Caedus publicaly, then change. It doesn't matter if he "might" be redeemed or whatnot three months from now. If someone wants to start a vote on making an exception on policy (i.e Kreia) then do so. I don't know what's going on in the books but that's just Wookieepedia standards. --Redemption
- O.K. Well, can we vote here, or do we have to go on the article's talk page to vote? And there's another thing, will anyone other than Jaina call him Caedus? Is everyone calling him Darth Caedus? Must the name be changed just because a few people call him that? Just wondering.--Jedi Kasra 03:36, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
- The thing about Revan is she (yes, I know HE, but I like her as a female better)could theoretically have 2 separate articles, one on who she was up to and including Dark Lord of the Sith and one on ::Players Name:: because that WAS a completely different person. Anyway, not the point. Point is, yes then technically under wookiepedia standards we would have to put her in as her real name. Though in reality that wouldn't be up to date either as she would no longer be Revan or her name before Revan, but rather ::player name::. Eh. Not the point again. The point is Jacen Solo is no more. Even Han and Leia admit it. Jaina admits it (My brother died in the Yuuzhan Vong War). I can imagine Han and Leia taking to the name Caedus very quickly so they can feel better about what's become of their son. If we're voting, we already know this, but I'm for the name change. Darth Nikolai 07:19, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
- The dramatis personae for Invincible calls him Darth Caedus. But the publisher's summary calls him Jacen. There's this quote:
SPOILERS!!!!
- "By the way, I have a title, now. Darth Caedus. Would you mind using it in future?
"Yes, sir"
"Do I still call you sir?"
"Technically, it's my lord."
"But sir is fine on duty." - ―Darth Caedus and Lon Shevu
END SPOILERS
Interesting.--Jedi Kasra 10:26, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
- Which again reinforces the fact that Sith "names" are in fact titles, not names, and thus we shouldn't have any articles at Darth names if we know the real names of the character. jSarek 10:37, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
- That however can't be the case. Should we change Darth Malak's article's name to Alek Squinquargesimus just because the latter is his real name? He is most well known as Darth Malak. But I see your point, Jsarek. The naming of an article probably depends on what name the character is mostly known in-universe by. For articles such as Jabba Desilijic Tiure or Mitth'raw'nuruodo, the article names don't reflect their commomly known names or titles, Jabba the Hutt or Thrawn, respectively .--Jedi Kasra 10:43, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
- Sith names ARE meant to be names. Think about episode III. "Henceforth, you shall be known as Darth Vader". Paplatine was replacing Skywlaker's name. And while I'm on the subject of Paplatine, it is perfectly acceptable as an in-universe source to have his article read Paplatine. he did not HATE his name. Even after all the Jedi were dead he still went by it, same with Dooku. Caedus however hates and detests the name Jacen Solo. He WANTS to be called Caedus, he just couldn't reveal that up till now. And if the dramatis personae is calling him Caedus then according to the first name change debate, the article should be titled Darth Caedus.Darth Nikolai 17:06, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
- We won't have an official DP until Invincible comes out. LFL said they are not releasing DPs in advance anymore, and the publisher's blurb on the article page still refers to him as "Jacen Solo". StarNeptuneTalk to me! 17:25, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
- Sith names ARE meant to be names. Think about episode III. "Henceforth, you shall be known as Darth Vader". Paplatine was replacing Skywlaker's name. And while I'm on the subject of Paplatine, it is perfectly acceptable as an in-universe source to have his article read Paplatine. he did not HATE his name. Even after all the Jedi were dead he still went by it, same with Dooku. Caedus however hates and detests the name Jacen Solo. He WANTS to be called Caedus, he just couldn't reveal that up till now. And if the dramatis personae is calling him Caedus then according to the first name change debate, the article should be titled Darth Caedus.Darth Nikolai 17:06, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
- Be that as it may,it's supposed to be written from an IN-UNIVERSE perspective. In-universe, Jacen Solo is now Darth Caedus and is being addressed as so. The publisher's summary is out of universe.Darth Nikolai 17:58, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
- Novels are not in-universe, so that point is null. I agree with jSarek, and, though I could be in the minority, I think that unless someone's adopted name (i.e. Darth Caedus) is likely to appear on official documents, then it should stay at their real name. If I gallivanted around calling myself Lord Gobbledegook III, it doesn't mean that's my legal name. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 18:29, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
- But Vader's name was his official na... oh, wait. You accounted for that :P. Jorrel
Fraajic 18:37, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
- Per Lord Gobbledegook III. Green Tentacle (Talk) 19:21, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
- On the other hand, since Caedus pretty much is the law right now (a point made in the novel as well) just proclaiming his new name should be enough to make it his legal name. (for reference; see Darth Malak, Darth Bane and Darth Zannah) Charlii 02:24, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
- How are novels not in-universe? They're as much in universe as anything else. And as for Lord Gobbledeegook. If you we're the Dictator of the galaxy, as Caedus is, or even in RL, a country, you could demand people call you whatever you desired and make it legal.Darth Nikolai 05:25, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
- The novels aren't IU because they aren't written from an IU perspective; they allow for a narrator-esque view, refer to everything as in the third person, etc. They can be written about events IU, and even written from IU (which isn't the case here). If they were written completely from an IU perspective, you wouldn't be able to get the galaxywide perspective, the different feelings and thoughts, etc. JorrelFraajic 07:32, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
- The novels aren't IU because they aren't written from an IU perspective; they allow for a narrator-esque view, refer to everything as in the third person, etc. They can be written about events IU, and even written from IU (which isn't the case here). If they were written completely from an IU perspective, you wouldn't be able to get the galaxywide perspective, the different feelings and thoughts, etc. Jorrel
- How are novels not in-universe? They're as much in universe as anything else. And as for Lord Gobbledeegook. If you we're the Dictator of the galaxy, as Caedus is, or even in RL, a country, you could demand people call you whatever you desired and make it legal.Darth Nikolai 05:25, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
- On the other hand, since Caedus pretty much is the law right now (a point made in the novel as well) just proclaiming his new name should be enough to make it his legal name. (for reference; see Darth Malak, Darth Bane and Darth Zannah) Charlii 02:24, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
- Per Lord Gobbledegook III. Green Tentacle (Talk) 19:21, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
- But Vader's name was his official na... oh, wait. You accounted for that :P. Jorrel
- Novels are not in-universe, so that point is null. I agree with jSarek, and, though I could be in the minority, I think that unless someone's adopted name (i.e. Darth Caedus) is likely to appear on official documents, then it should stay at their real name. If I gallivanted around calling myself Lord Gobbledegook III, it doesn't mean that's my legal name. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 18:29, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
- Be that as it may,it's supposed to be written from an IN-UNIVERSE perspective. In-universe, Jacen Solo is now Darth Caedus and is being addressed as so. The publisher's summary is out of universe.Darth Nikolai 17:58, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
- Per jSarek and Lord Gobbledeegook the III. I would just wait for the last novel to release before making a move to have everything in front of you. -- Riffsyphon1024 07:24, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
- Riffsyphon is an administrator, so I would think he would know what to properly title an article. So, I agree with 'Riffsyphon, jSarek, and Ackbar. Let's just wait 'til Invincible comes out.--Jedi Kasra 21:26, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
- The Wookieepedia article "Darth Vader" redirects to Anakin Skywalker, "Darth Tyranus" redirects to Dooku, "Darth Sidious" redirects to Palpatine, and "Darth Traya" redirects to Kreia. The Wookieepedia policy seems to be to redirect Sith names to given names. Why should Jacen Solo's case be any different? Thunderforge 21:39, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
- Erm, what about Darth Malak, Darth Nihilus, Darth Sion, Darth Maul, Darth Bane, Darth Ruin, Darth Zannah, Darth Rivan, Darth Andeddu etc. Jasca Ducato Sith Council 22:30, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
- Unless you happen to know Darth Maul's first name. Let's say its Bob for example. -- Riffsyphon1024 05:12, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
- Erm, what about Darth Malak, Darth Nihilus, Darth Sion, Darth Maul, Darth Bane, Darth Ruin, Darth Zannah, Darth Rivan, Darth Andeddu etc. Jasca Ducato Sith Council 22:30, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
- They were all last known by those names. Take Darth Zannah for example, everyone who knew that she was Zannah is now dead, and besides, that is both her name and Darth title. We don't know what Jacen Solo was last know by, which is why we need to wait for the book to come out.--Jedi Kasra 23:10, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
- A name change seems appropriate for the time being. The norm within the StarWars Universe is intended to become the norm within our site. I am definitely for a change (at least until he is redeemed). —Unsigned comment by GrandMaster5 (talk • contribs)
- So the narration isn't in universe, but what Jacen says is. It "really" happened. He wants to be known by Caedus and that's that. For the encyclopedia to be up to date it should reflect that.Darth Nikolai 05:07, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
