I think the Canon/Legends switch is a good thing for the future of this wiki. It will help supply people with the correct information. However, I think redirects can still be confusing and misleading. For example, if someone searches for "Palpatine", they will still be directed to his Legends article. In the case of an actual redirect, if someone searches "Darth Vader", they will still be taken to Anakin Skywalker's Legends article. I believe these should instead redirect to their canon equivalent. The same applies for other articles with similar situations as well. What do you all think? Reddyredcp (talk) 01:37, December 14, 2015 (UTC)
- Palpatine will always be the Legends article, because Darth Sidious is the canon name. It's like how Moraband is the canon name and Korriban is the Legends name for that situation. So Sidious/Palpatine is an outlier. Darth Vader can be redirected to Anakin Skywalker, though. Those redirects will need to be changed manually; I don't believe the bot is doing that. - Brandon Rhea(talk) 01:40, December 14, 2015 (UTC)
- I understand this, however is Palpatine not also a canon name? He is referred to as Palpatine many times throughout the films, particularly the prequels, though I do not believe Moraband is ever referred to as Korriban. My apologies, I am still not used to the setup of the new canon. Thank you. Reddyredcp (talk) 01:43, December 14, 2015 (UTC)
- He is called both Palpatine AND Sidious in both Canon and Legends, so I'd say that both should direct to the Canon article now, and the Legends one should either be at Palpatine/Legends or Darth Sidious/Legends. His only name exclusive to only one continuity is Sheev. JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 01:45, December 14, 2015 (UTC)
- Palpatine is a canon name, yes, but it's the full proper name for the Legends version. That means the Legends version takes precedence. It's a weird outlier, but that's the way it works for that type of situation. - Brandon Rhea(talk) 01:47, December 14, 2015 (UTC)
- I don't see why Legends should take precedence now in any case when the name is also used in canon, even if the full name is different. By the way, Mandalorian definitely should have a canon article now too (I believe we have enough information on the people of Mandalore now to create one). JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 01:49, December 14, 2015 (UTC)
- Palpatine is a canon name, yes, but it's the full proper name for the Legends version. That means the Legends version takes precedence. It's a weird outlier, but that's the way it works for that type of situation. - Brandon Rhea(talk) 01:47, December 14, 2015 (UTC)
- He is called both Palpatine AND Sidious in both Canon and Legends, so I'd say that both should direct to the Canon article now, and the Legends one should either be at Palpatine/Legends or Darth Sidious/Legends. His only name exclusive to only one continuity is Sheev. JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 01:45, December 14, 2015 (UTC)
- I understand this, however is Palpatine not also a canon name? He is referred to as Palpatine many times throughout the films, particularly the prequels, though I do not believe Moraband is ever referred to as Korriban. My apologies, I am still not used to the setup of the new canon. Thank you. Reddyredcp (talk) 01:43, December 14, 2015 (UTC)
It takes precedence because that's his Legends name. /Legends should only be used to denote a subpage. If Palpatine was moved to Palpatine/Legends, it'd be a subpage of a redirect, and that's really weird for traffic purposes. This is the way our naming policy is set up, so it'd require a community vote to change it. As for Mandalorian, the reason that a page for that was never created was it's simply a denonymn with no unique available information that couldn't otherwise go in Mandalore. Season two of Rebels is going to explore the Mandalorians more, though, so that decision could very well change once we saw that episode(s). - Brandon Rhea(talk) 01:51, December 14, 2015 (UTC)
- Darth Sidious is also his name in Legends as well as in canon. He wouldn't be the only Sith to use his Darth name as the main article name as far as Legends are concerned (see e.g. Darth Caedus). Having him at Darth Sidious/Legends would solve the issue.
- As for Mandalorians, the problem is that canon-only viewers will go to the "Mandalorian" article expecting canon info from Clone Wars and Rebels, so an article should be created if only for the benefit of the users. JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 01:55, December 14, 2015 (UTC)
Ok, follow me here, because this is a unique situation and I don’t think you have the full context. Canon established something new for the character: that his true identity is that of Darth Sidious. In Tarkin, for example, anything from Sidious' point of view referred to him as Sidious. From the point of view of others, he was Palpatine. The Databank on StarWars.com states that by the time of Episode III, Palpatine was simply a public persona and he was Darth Sidious in thought and action. That means, for canon, Darth Sidious is the proper page title because that's his "true" name. That doesn't apply to Legends. In Legends, he is Palpatine before he is Darth Sidious, hence why the Legends page is called Palpatine. That's what our naming policy dictates. If you want to change that, then you need to create a community vote to amend the naming policy. Discussing it here is all well and good, but only a formal community vote to change the naming policy can actually lead to the change you're looking for. That being said, the odds of such a vote passing are very slim, so if you pursue that option then keep your expectations tempered. - Brandon Rhea(talk) 02:01, December 14, 2015 (UTC)
- "In Legends, he is Palpatine before he is Darth Sidious" isn't that also the case with Jacen Solo? He's also Jacen before he is Caedus. And yet his article name is Darth Caedus. JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 02:03, December 14, 2015 (UTC)
- I'm not familiar with the source material there so I couldn't tell you, but the community stance is that he died as Darth Caedus, not as Jacen Solo, so Darth Caedus is the proper page title. You'd have to ask Legends editors who are familiar with that storyline about that, though. - Brandon Rhea(talk) 02:04, December 14, 2015 (UTC)
- Didn't Dooku die as Darth Tyrannus as well? And while the name obviously didn't exist by the time the original trilogy and much of the old EU was made, it was obvious to me that for the Sith, the Darth identity was always the one they considered their true nature even in Legends. He might have died known as Palpatine, but I'm pretty sure he died as Sidious in the old continuity as far as he himself was concerned as well. And looking at the names of articles for other Darths, I wouldn't say that there is enough consistency there to maintain that Palpatine's Legends article cannot be at Darth Sidious/Legends under the current naming policy. JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 02:12, December 14, 2015 (UTC)
- Another solution could be moving Palpatine (disambiguation) to Palpatine... JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 02:14, December 14, 2015 (UTC)
- Dooku was primarily known as Dooku and rarely used his Sith name. Palpatine also rarely used his Sith name in Legends. We're going around in circles so I'm going to leave you with this final point again: the naming policy makes it clear that the current page names are appropriate, and only a community vote can change that. I have no stake in whether the Legends article is moved; I'm just telling you the reality of the situation here. - Brandon Rhea(talk) 02:15, December 14, 2015 (UTC)
- I do think that given the canon switchover the naming policy should be adjusted to say that if an alternate name is used in canon, then it should always redirect to the canon article, even if it would be a primary name of a legends article. Otherwise, this will lead to a lot of confusion for readers who simply search for canon info on "Palpatine" etc. JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 02:20, December 14, 2015 (UTC)
- I understand this topic is a bit old now, I do apologize for continuing it, however I would like to point out that in the recent Canon/Legends switch, another part of the vote was the redirecting issue which, unless I misinterpreted (long week), is essentially what I proposed here. Do you still believe that, for this matter, a separate community vote should be made before proceeding? Thank you. Reddyredcp (talk) 01:51, December 15, 2015 (UTC)
- The vote does allow for that, but you've been ignoring the explicit warning that is presented when removing /Legends from redirect pages. Hence why I reverted you. Cade
Calrayn 02:16, December 15, 2015 (UTC)
- Ah! I have just caught sight of it, not sure why I didn't notice that before. Is there any way to automatically check articles using the link, say with a script, or will it have to be done manually? Reddyredcp (talk) 02:25, December 15, 2015 (UTC)
- The vote does allow for that, but you've been ignoring the explicit warning that is presented when removing /Legends from redirect pages. Hence why I reverted you. Cade
- I understand this topic is a bit old now, I do apologize for continuing it, however I would like to point out that in the recent Canon/Legends switch, another part of the vote was the redirecting issue which, unless I misinterpreted (long week), is essentially what I proposed here. Do you still believe that, for this matter, a separate community vote should be made before proceeding? Thank you. Reddyredcp (talk) 01:51, December 15, 2015 (UTC)
- I do think that given the canon switchover the naming policy should be adjusted to say that if an alternate name is used in canon, then it should always redirect to the canon article, even if it would be a primary name of a legends article. Otherwise, this will lead to a lot of confusion for readers who simply search for canon info on "Palpatine" etc. JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 02:20, December 14, 2015 (UTC)
- Dooku was primarily known as Dooku and rarely used his Sith name. Palpatine also rarely used his Sith name in Legends. We're going around in circles so I'm going to leave you with this final point again: the naming policy makes it clear that the current page names are appropriate, and only a community vote can change that. I have no stake in whether the Legends article is moved; I'm just telling you the reality of the situation here. - Brandon Rhea(talk) 02:15, December 14, 2015 (UTC)
- Another solution could be moving Palpatine (disambiguation) to Palpatine... JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 02:14, December 14, 2015 (UTC)
- Didn't Dooku die as Darth Tyrannus as well? And while the name obviously didn't exist by the time the original trilogy and much of the old EU was made, it was obvious to me that for the Sith, the Darth identity was always the one they considered their true nature even in Legends. He might have died known as Palpatine, but I'm pretty sure he died as Sidious in the old continuity as far as he himself was concerned as well. And looking at the names of articles for other Darths, I wouldn't say that there is enough consistency there to maintain that Palpatine's Legends article cannot be at Darth Sidious/Legends under the current naming policy. JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 02:12, December 14, 2015 (UTC)
- I'm not familiar with the source material there so I couldn't tell you, but the community stance is that he died as Darth Caedus, not as Jacen Solo, so Darth Caedus is the proper page title. You'd have to ask Legends editors who are familiar with that storyline about that, though. - Brandon Rhea(talk) 02:04, December 14, 2015 (UTC)
