Forums > Knowledge Bank archive > KB:Separatist Space
This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments or questions on this topic should be made in a new Knowledge Bank page rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record. —MJ— Training Room 05:43, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
I noticed that many articles regarding planets say that they were located within Separatist space. Does that mean that the worlds were members of the Confederacy or just within the territory of the CIS?--198.228.216.21 00:40, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
- Simply being within the borders of space the Separatists controlled does not instantly mean they were members of the Confederacy. If the article doesn't say that the planet "was a member," then their membership is not confirmed. NaruHina Talk
00:29, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
- But also to add, I believe that if it is shown within Separatist, Sith, or even Republic space—from the Atlas—then it can be considered as a "member" world—unless no other sources say something different.--71.80.172.90 03:03, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Just to clarify this point, if a system name explicitly appears on an Atlas map, then, yes, we assume it was a member. But if we know through inference that a particular system was located within a particular territory, we don't assume allegiance, only that the system fell within the territory. So, for instance, if the Foo system fall within square L-5 on the Atlas coordinate system, and we know that all of L-5 was within Separatist space, we only claim that the Foo system was allied with the Separatists if the word "Foo" appears on the map of Separatist space. Otherwise, all we can say is that it fell in their territory, not that they controlled it. ~Savage
11:33, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Just to clarify this point, if a system name explicitly appears on an Atlas map, then, yes, we assume it was a member. But if we know through inference that a particular system was located within a particular territory, we don't assume allegiance, only that the system fell within the territory. So, for instance, if the Foo system fall within square L-5 on the Atlas coordinate system, and we know that all of L-5 was within Separatist space, we only claim that the Foo system was allied with the Separatists if the word "Foo" appears on the map of Separatist space. Otherwise, all we can say is that it fell in their territory, not that they controlled it. ~Savage
- But also to add, I believe that if it is shown within Separatist, Sith, or even Republic space—from the Atlas—then it can be considered as a "member" world—unless no other sources say something different.--71.80.172.90 03:03, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
- I'd like to reference something I just posted on Forum:KB:Essential Atlas maps: in the Black Fleet Crisis trilogy, the New Republic considered it illegal to claim everything within a given area of space. That territorial claims extend from the center of a star system out a certain distance, and that the deep space between two systems was unclaimed (analogous to international waters). By that logic, simply appearing within the coloured area of a map is not evidence of alignment. Maybe on those maps that show a given planet within a CIS map might just be "this big planet is located within this space. It was thus under some CIS influence, but chose to remain neutral". It's hard to tell. Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith -Just shy, not antisocial: You can talk to me!- 13:02, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Are you sure you're right, because a couple other users are saying something totally different about this topic. But I can see the logic like what you said about Dagobah in an earlier forum. Darth Pythonis (talk) 23:03, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
- We're in agreement, actually. Taral is saying that not every world within their borders is guaranteed to be under the government's rule. We aren't saying every system within the lines was part of the government; that would be stupid. Just look at the territory of Darth Krayt's empire. What we're saying is that if it appeared on the map within their territory, then we say it was aligned with them. If it was located within borders of territory claimed by a government—which, if it helps, you can think of as the areas they have vowed to defend against their enemies—and was not on the map then it is significant that they were there but it is not confirmed that they were a member of the government. The sample that appeared on the map is nowhere near every planet within those lines and this does not conflict with the Black Fleet Crisis. NaruHina Talk 01:50, October 30, 2012 (UTC)
- I see. I guess that makes sense. They wouldn't bother putting it on the map if it wasn't notably aligned. I just worry about holdouts. Like if a planet was within a territory and placed on a map, not because it was a notable member of the CIS, but specifically because it was not, and was actively fighting CIS influence. But then again, either a story would be told about that, or the map should be appropriately annotated. Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith -Just shy, not antisocial: You can talk to me!- 13:11, October 30, 2012 (UTC)
- I think there are a few instances of that on various maps, but in such cases, the system in question is colored to match the rival territory's border. ~Savage
13:24, October 30, 2012 (UTC)
- But I took notice of one world in particular found on the Clone Wars map and it's located within Separatist space: Wroona. It is said to be represented in the Senate by Senator Papanoida, but it's shown not colored to match Republic space. Is it a Separatist or Republic world? There also some Separatist enclaves within Republic space like Fondor, Bomis Koori IV, and Uba IV. Darth Pythonis (talk) 23:02, October 30, 2012 (UTC)
- Since alignments from the maps are a deduction, a source explicitly contradicting it would override it, I would say. It's not as though they're looking to this map every time they decide where to place a story during this time period and discrepancies with material to be released and especially material released before 2009 would have to take precedence. We'd just mark it in the BTS like any other canon discrepency. NaruHina Talk 00:53, October 31, 2012 (UTC)
- Since alignments from the maps are a deduction, a source explicitly contradicting it would override it, I would say. It's not as though they're looking to this map every time they decide where to place a story during this time period and discrepancies with material to be released and especially material released before 2009 would have to take precedence. We'd just mark it in the BTS like any other canon discrepency. NaruHina Talk
- But I took notice of one world in particular found on the Clone Wars map and it's located within Separatist space: Wroona. It is said to be represented in the Senate by Senator Papanoida, but it's shown not colored to match Republic space. Is it a Separatist or Republic world? There also some Separatist enclaves within Republic space like Fondor, Bomis Koori IV, and Uba IV. Darth Pythonis (talk) 23:02, October 30, 2012 (UTC)
- I think there are a few instances of that on various maps, but in such cases, the system in question is colored to match the rival territory's border. ~Savage
- I see. I guess that makes sense. They wouldn't bother putting it on the map if it wasn't notably aligned. I just worry about holdouts. Like if a planet was within a territory and placed on a map, not because it was a notable member of the CIS, but specifically because it was not, and was actively fighting CIS influence. But then again, either a story would be told about that, or the map should be appropriately annotated. Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith -Just shy, not antisocial: You can talk to me!- 13:11, October 30, 2012 (UTC)
- We're in agreement, actually. Taral is saying that not every world within their borders is guaranteed to be under the government's rule. We aren't saying every system within the lines was part of the government; that would be stupid. Just look at the territory of Darth Krayt's empire. What we're saying is that if it appeared on the map within their territory, then we say it was aligned with them. If it was located within borders of territory claimed by a government—which, if it helps, you can think of as the areas they have vowed to defend against their enemies—and was not on the map then it is significant that they were there but it is not confirmed that they were a member of the government. The sample that appeared on the map is nowhere near every planet within those lines and this does not conflict with the Black Fleet Crisis. NaruHina Talk
- Are you sure you're right, because a couple other users are saying something totally different about this topic. But I can see the logic like what you said about Dagobah in an earlier forum. Darth Pythonis (talk) 23:03, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
- But if you look closely at the map, most of Separatist space is actually contested space. So maybe some of those planets that appear to be in Separatist space are actually Republic or neutral planets, or is it something different? 98.148.127.135 02:02, November 11, 2012 (UTC)
- I think that its mainly contested space becuase much of Separatist space was the full boundaries of Republic space before the Separatist Crisis and the Clone Wars when many sectors, systems and worlds would leave the Republic and become part of the CIS—mainly those in the Outer Rim. So the worlds shown in Separatist space are not neutral or Republic worlds unless another source contradicts the map like Generis and Wroona respectively. That's my guess. Darth Pythonis (talk) 16:32, November 11, 2012 (UTC)
