The result of the debate was Oppose. JangFett (Talk) 14:59, March 23, 2014 (UTC)
So with Episode VII and more movies coming starting late next year, there's still plenty of time before we can make specific decisions on how to handle the new content. However, I would like to propose one simple change right now while the relevant policy is fresh on my mind.
According to Wookieepedia:Spoilers:
On Wookieepedia, a spoiler is considered a spoiler up to and until one month after the official U.S. (or country of origin's) release date of the particular product. Therefore, any new information from said source must contain a spoiler tag until one month has passed since the product's release. Also, Quotes of the Day may not appear on the Main Page until at least one month after the United States release of the quote's source.
This works well with the material that has been released in recent years: books, comics, short stories, TV episodes, etc., where the material can be read or viewed in the comfort of one's own home beginning on the original release date. However, the same does not apply to movies. With the advent of Netflix and similar services, as well as the ever-rising price of movie theater tickets, more and more people are completely eschewing the traditional movie theater in favor of streaming movies from Netflix, or renting them from Redbox or similar rental kiosks, or (like me) even borrowing them from the library at no charge), and viewing them on their home theater systems. These people are often perfectly willing to wait until the movie is available through their favorite service, even if it could be watched in a traditional theater six months earlier. To add to the problem, most major movie companies, including Disney, force rental services to wait 28 days after home video release before they can begin renting the movie out, in an attempt to increase outright sales of the DVD or Blu-ray.
Our current spoiler policy would only allow one month between release to theaters and detagging of spoilers; this is inadequate for newly released movies, as they would still be in first-run theaters at that time, and home video/Netflix release would still be months away. Taking into account both the increasing number of people who utilize these services in place of traditional theaters, as well as the aforementioned 28-day rule, I therefore propose that the section of the policy quoted above be modified as follows:
This spoiler policy describes how spoilers should be handled on Wookieepedia, including how to mark them and how long they should be marked.
Length of spoiler period
Most sources
Wookieepedia considers all material from upcoming and newly released sources, excluding movies (which are handled separately below), to be a spoiler until one month after the source's official release date of the particular product. The release date upon which this is calculated is the U.S. release date, unless the source is not released in the U.S., in which case the official release date in the source's country of origin is used. Note that movie adaptations and tie-ins may have a longer period; see the appropriate section below.
Until this one-month spoiler period has fully elapsed, all material from a source that is still within its spoiler period, as defined above, must be properly tagged with one of the templates below, and material from that source may not appear on the Main Page under Quote of the Day until the spoiler period has elapsed.
Movies
Because of the myriad of different ways to watch a movie and their staggered release (first to theaters, then to home video a few months later, and then to Netflix/rental services 28 days after that), movies require extra precautions. Material from movies is therefore considered a spoiler until two months after the movie is released to home video in the United States. Until this extended spoiler period is over, such material must therefore be marked with one of the templates below and cannot appear on the Main Page under Quote of the Day.
Notwithstanding the previous paragraph, the prohibition on Quotes of the Day only does not apply to material that can be sourced entirely from trailers that are legally available for viewing free of charge on the internet. Quotes from such trailers may appear on the Main Page as soon as the QOTD queue allows them to. Otherwise, trailers are considered an extension of the movie and follow the same spoiler period, based on the movie's home video release date.
Movie adaptations and tie-ins
Movie adaptations (e.g. novelization, video games, etc.) and tie-ins (e.g. behind-the-scenes books and supporting novels) present another type of special problem, in that they may cover the same material as the movie, but are normally subject to a much shorter spoiler period. Material from adaptations and tie-ins that directly depicts or explicitly references events or other information from the movie, or that otherwise unavoidably causes anyone who sees it to be spoiled in regard to the movie, should obey the same spoiler period that is enforced for the movie. Material from adaptations and tie-ins that does not cause readers to be spoiled in regard to the content of the movie should follow the regular one-month rule for non-movie sources. It is possible for different material from the same source to use different rules; e.g. if a novel that takes place after the movie contains a flashback to a movie event, articles that mention what the flashback is about should be tagged in accordance with the movie rule, but articles only referring to the rest of the novel (assuming that it is otherwise free of movie spoilers) should use the one-month rule.
Determining which period is necessary is left to editor discretion and the normal consensus policy, should a vote be necessary. If the movie rule is to be enforced on material from an adaptation or a tie-in, a special spoiler template (to be created later) shall be used to clearly indicate the specific source and that the information spoils the movie, so as to make it clear why the information is tagged for longer than usual.
Quotes of the Day from these sources obey the same restrictions as the rule to be used for that material, including the exception for movie trailers.
This ensures that people who utilize Netflix and other rental services to the exclusion of traditional theaters are not left hanging by untagged spoilers until they have had a reasonable chance to watch the movie. —MJ— War Room 03:58, March 8, 2014 (UTC)
- EDITED 00:07, March 11, 2014 (UTC) per comments below.'
Support
Oppose
- In Australia we deal with month or longer delays for products and new movies (LEGO movie isn't released until April 3!!!). We've had to deal with hearing about movies from the US and Europe before we get it since movies were made. If someone CHOOSES to not see the movie straight away and wait more than a month, then part of that choice is the knowledge that they might have the plot spoiled. Can't have it both ways IMO Manoof (talk) 01:53, March 12, 2014 (UTC)
- Per Manoof (above) and Tope (below). jSarek (talk) 02:42, March 12, 2014 (UTC)
- Sorry, Jonathan, but I think this is ultimately counterproductive. Leaving a template on an article for an extended period of time isn't a huge deal to me, but the real kicker here is preventing us from putting anything on the Main Page from Episode 7 until many months after its big theatrical debut. We need to be capitalizing on new products like Episode 7 as much as possible to generate more traffic and contributors, both of which have undeniably been slipping for quite some time now. The best way to do that is to advertise new material as much as we can. The vast majority of the public will be going to see the movie in theaters, and that's the crowd we need to be catering to. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 17:21, March 12, 2014 (UTC)
- Yeah, Tope's reasoning is pretty sound. Stake black msg 17:27, March 12, 2014 (UTC)
- 100% per Tope. Can't cater to everyone who makes the decision to wait. Darth Trayus(Trayus Academy) 18:09, March 12, 2014 (UTC)
- It's needless rule creep. Corellian Premier
The Force will be with you always 19:30, March 12, 2014 (UTC) - Per Toprawa. Green Tentacle (Talk) 21:23, March 12, 2014 (UTC)
- We didn't extend it with the TV shows and we aren't gonna start now. Though I think we should keep some alert or something in the main page about it containing spoilers from the recent movies and for the viewer to be cautious. Winterz (talk) 21:39, March 12, 2014 (UTC)
- Entirely per Tope and Manoof. If someone chooses to wait, we can't be held responsible if something gets spoiled for them. Supreme Emperor (talk) 21:56, March 12, 2014 (UTC)
- I'm happy you changed the proposal's treatment of adaptations and trailer quotes. However, I can't convince myself that two months from home video release isn't too long an interval to wait. (On the other hand, the main theatrical movies are likely to have more twisty twists which casual surfers will be unhappy to have spoiled -- I saw someone complain once that we had unmarked spoilers for ESB, and I'm only 99% convinced he was trolling. Maybe two months from the US premiere, instead of one? Gives Netflixers time to read the novel, I think.)—Silly Dan (talk) 02:53, March 14, 2014 (UTC)
- Basically per above. And Silly Dan, I'm not sure he was trolling. I've seen too many people on the internet go into a rant about spoilers years and years after a movie has been out.—Cal Jedi
(Personal Comm Channel) 13:14, March 14, 2014 (UTC) - Per Toprawa. That being said, I did get mad when Family Guy ruined Citizen Kane for me. Adamwankenobi (talk) 13:38, March 14, 2014 (UTC)
- Per above. 1358 (Talk) 09:45, March 15, 2014 (UTC)
Discussion
- I think this is a good idea. Don't you think one month after home video release would be enough, though? Stake black msg 07:47, March 8, 2014 (UTC)
- No, because of the 28-day rule mentioned above that Disney and other studios impose on the rental companies. With that rule, people that prefer to use those rental companies (and that's just about all major rental companies) would only have two to three days to watch it before the tags disappear. Making it two months gives those people the same one month, give or take a few days, that they get for books and the like. In other words, waiting two months after home video release for movie stuff ensures that all sources, no matter the type, are tagged for one month after American fans have the ability to read or view that source in the comfort of their own home via their preferred method of obtaining it. —MJ— Training Room 08:04, March 8, 2014 (UTC)
- Correct me if I'm wrong in my understanding here. Depending on the box office success of a movie, sometimes a film will stay in theaters for six months or more. I remember Titanic stayed in theaters for over a year, it was so popular. I've never used Netflix or Redbox, etc., so I don't know the times between when a movie leaves theaters and when it becomes available on these home-viewing systems. But we could potentially be having a spoiler-tag period of 6-12 months or even longer depending on the longevity of Episode 7 in theaters. That seems a little silly to me just to cater to people who don't want to go see a popular movie like Star Wars in theaters. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 18:48, March 8, 2014 (UTC)
- While this used to be true, I highly, highly doubt that would happen here. For one, they're supposedly going to release a new movie every year, alternating between numbered saga movies and the spin-offs, so I would think they would want to get one out on home video well before the next one hits theaters, so that one doesn't steal the other's thunder. Also, in recent years the wait time has been getting progressively shorter. I really don't think we would have to leave anything tagged more than seven, at most eight, months after it hits theaters, and probably around six months. If we ever get that outlier that drags on for much longer than that, we can revisit the policy at that time in another CT, but I don't think it's likely enough to account for now. In other words, let's "cross that bridge when we come to it". —MJ— War Room 00:07, March 11, 2014 (UTC)
- How about an explicit exception for QOTD nominations for dialogue or narration in the trailer? That would be available to any internet-using fan well before the film comes out. —Silly Dan (talk) 14:52, March 10, 2014 (UTC)