This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made in the Senate Hall or new Consensus Track pages rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record.
The result of the debate was no consensus, leaning toward do not forbid specific scene citations for facts found in RPGs. jSarek 03:28, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
On the FA nom page, under the heading Atton Rand, there appears to be a contradiction concerning the sourcing. Two objections stand: one by Imp saying that Atton needed to be sourced with specific moments or events in KOTOR II (which was addressed, see the article in question). The other objection was one by 4dot, who says that we should not reference only certain parts of games, but just attribute certain facts to the game itself. As I have been working on this and other articles in the KOTOR series, I am concerned as to what the decision was concerning this contradiction. -Solus (Bird of Prey) 20:49, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
- All I can say is "Bah", really. Of course, we can add 20 references throughout a KOTOR article, link them all to the game, and declare the article sourced. But what people don't get is that sourcing is not a technical requirement for FA made completely out of the blue; sourcing has a clear purpose: to allow others to independently verify facts we present. KOTOR is not a book that you can read through and hopefully find the reference; it's a game, a rather non-linear game, with alternate endings, unlockable dialogue, obscure NPCs, the influence system (in TSL), and so on. It's entirely possible to beat the game and miss lots of things. That's why individual scenes are needed. I don't consider it a requirement, but disallowing such sourcing it on the grounds that "it's not policy" would be stupid. - Sikon 09:47, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
- I fully agree. Facts from books, comics, sourcebooks etc.. are (relatively) easy to verify (especially with all those illegal scans on the internet which let you search words or phrases). But finding a single line of text in a huge game like KotOR or the much bigger Star Wars Galaxies is almost impossible and therefore very hard to verify. Take SW Galaxies for example: there are hundreds of quests, thousands of items, many have been added sometime after the release, quite a few quests, items and other things have been removed again from the game. Nobody can know everything in the game and it's just impossible to find something if you don't know where to look. --Craven 21:00, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
- Forget the word "illegal" in relation to scans from now on. It's bigotry. It's the only option for people in whose countries these things are not sold, or when they're out of print. - Sikon 00:33, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
- Amazon. Ebay. The law is the law. If it's illegal, it's illegal. Havac 05:17, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
- And wait how long? Two months? No. If they were available in stores, I would buy them. If LFL doesn't care about its potential customers in Russia, I don't care about LFL. - Sikon 05:44, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
- Two months, two years, two lifetimes, doesn't matter, it's still illegal; you caring about LFL or not, it's still illegal; right or wrong, it's still illegal. jSarek 09:31, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
- Regardless, this word is irrelevant in this context. And it has certain... negative associations that I'd rather not see. - Sikon 15:23, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
- I think it's completely relevant. Anyone reading Craven's post and saying "there are scans online?" and goes looking should know that what they're seeing are illegally created. jSarek 23:29, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
- Point taken. That's a personal decision. Now please move on to the discussion at hand. As I've stated elsewhere before, being more specific with a reference, such as the KotOR mentions above, is perfectly fine; however, they are not—and never should be—specifically required or disallowed. —Xwing328(Talk) 01:28, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
- If we're going to do it, well and good, but that means we have to identify page numbers and timecodes for books and films, respectively. Just to maintain a standard. Also, when you people do this specific KOTOR sourcing, please mention that it's KOTOR that you're referencing, not just "Taris". .... 01:52, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
- Point taken. That's a personal decision. Now please move on to the discussion at hand. As I've stated elsewhere before, being more specific with a reference, such as the KotOR mentions above, is perfectly fine; however, they are not—and never should be—specifically required or disallowed. —Xwing328(Talk) 01:28, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
- I think it's completely relevant. Anyone reading Craven's post and saying "there are scans online?" and goes looking should know that what they're seeing are illegally created. jSarek 23:29, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
- Regardless, this word is irrelevant in this context. And it has certain... negative associations that I'd rather not see. - Sikon 15:23, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
- Two months, two years, two lifetimes, doesn't matter, it's still illegal; you caring about LFL or not, it's still illegal; right or wrong, it's still illegal. jSarek 09:31, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
- And wait how long? Two months? No. If they were available in stores, I would buy them. If LFL doesn't care about its potential customers in Russia, I don't care about LFL. - Sikon 05:44, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
- Amazon. Ebay. The law is the law. If it's illegal, it's illegal. Havac 05:17, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
- Forget the word "illegal" in relation to scans from now on. It's bigotry. It's the only option for people in whose countries these things are not sold, or when they're out of print. - Sikon 00:33, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
- I fully agree. Facts from books, comics, sourcebooks etc.. are (relatively) easy to verify (especially with all those illegal scans on the internet which let you search words or phrases). But finding a single line of text in a huge game like KotOR or the much bigger Star Wars Galaxies is almost impossible and therefore very hard to verify. Take SW Galaxies for example: there are hundreds of quests, thousands of items, many have been added sometime after the release, quite a few quests, items and other things have been removed again from the game. Nobody can know everything in the game and it's just impossible to find something if you don't know where to look. --Craven 21:00, 19 April 2007 (UTC)