The result of the debate was No consensus. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 18:12, January 10, 2018 (UTC)
WARNING: By its nature, this thread may contain some very minor discussion of spoilers. They will be minimal, however, if you absolutely do not want to have any, then leave now.
So as has been discussed to death in IRC chat and over at Forum:SH:Wookieepedia spoiler lockdown, we have a problem with Template:Moviespoiler and the problem is this - people aren't using it the way we defined it. When we set it up, the idea was that the template would only be placed on subjects originating for the film. For example, Supremacy would carry the template and Yoda would not, instead it would only carry [[Template:Majorspoiler]]. The idea was that this would keep people from being spoiled simply by the presence of Moviespoiler template that Yoda (or anyone else that would be a surprise) appears in the film.
However, it doesn't seem to be working out this way. People aren't following that rule. Moviespoiler has been posted on Yoda and plenty of other subjects that definitely don't originate from The Last Jedi, for example, Skywalker's lightsaber. It was also pointed out to me that people rely on that template to know specifically that there are going to be spoilers about what happened in the film within the article and so they would be angry if they didn't see it and then read through the Yoda article, for example, and saw spoilers about The Last Jedi.
Therefore, I am proposing as we have discussed that we modify the rule such that any article with information originating from the film or associated media carries the Moviespoiler template. ProfessorTofty (talk) 20:12, December 22, 2017 (UTC)
Support
- This is what everybody's already doing anyway and what people seem to want, let's just codify it. ProfessorTofty (talk) 20:12, December 22, 2017 (UTC)
- I'm happy to have my vote nullified if another CT takes this one's place, but in the meantime I want to register support for the proposal we have. Asithol (talk) 18:02, December 29, 2017 (UTC)
AV-6R7Crew Pit 18:35, December 29, 2017 (UTC)
Object
Discussion
- Note: If "Object" wins, then our articles need to be updated with due haste to correct the current incorrect usage. ProfessorTofty (talk) 20:12, December 22, 2017 (UTC)
- This proposal, ironically, seems flawed for the very thing it's attempting to rectify. As the SH discussion points out, the Mofference rule defining this template's usage pertained exclusively to The Force Awakens, which was shortsighted, since we've now adapted it for use with The Last Jedi, and we'll likely do the same for the Solo film and Episode 9 and on and on and on. But, as also pointed out in that SH, such adaptation is technically a violation of the Mofference policy. So instead of merely authorizing this template's adaptation and use for "the film" (i.e., The Last Jedi), this proposal should be reworded to allow for adaptation and use with any new project that we might need this template for, not just new films. There's also a new live-action TV series coming out, etc., etc. For the record, this is why we should be careful about creating unnecessarily bureaucratic rules, which needlessly hamstring us and force pointless CT votes when we need a little sensible flexibility, such as in this case. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 20:33, December 22, 2017 (UTC)
- The more I think about this, the more I think maybe we need to turn {{Moviespoiler}} into Template:Majorspoiler and turn {{Spoiler}} into Template:Minorspoiler, and then define each template's role. Like, Major for all film and TV projects, with allowance for the template to be adapted for each new film or show. And Minor for everything else without the need for specific adaptation, which would mostly be novels, comics, and video games. Both templates are quite similar and their use needlessly overlaps in places. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 20:43, December 22, 2017 (UTC)
- What would happen for example in the novel Dark Disciple a show character Asajj Ventress dies, that would be a major spoiler, but it didn't happened on the show, would the minor spoiler template still be used?--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 21:48, December 22, 2017 (UTC)
- A very good question, indeed. It's all fair and good to say that minor would be stuff like novels and comics, but there are those who care about those just as much, especially if it does involve something like a major character. It would be great to discuss all this stuff. Perhaps it's time for another Mofference? It's been over a year since we had one. ProfessorTofty (talk) 21:54, December 22, 2017 (UTC)
- You're taking the suggested template naming a little too literally. The "Major" and "Minor" titles are just names to distinguish major market releases (films and TV series) from minor releases (print works, mostly), the magnitude of spoilers within notwithstanding. The Major temple would have a project-specific theme for each new use like we're doing now with {{Moviespoiler}}, while the Minor template can just stay with what we're doing with {{Spoiler}} now. We don't need specific template themes for every new novel that comes out, for example. Does that make sense? And we don't need a Mofference to figure this out. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 22:07, December 22, 2017 (UTC)
- That makes more sense, sounds good--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 22:19, December 22, 2017 (UTC)
- I like that idea. Would you like to go ahead and kill this thread and propose it? Or would you prefer for me to go ahead and start the new thread and then any admin can end this one? Or are you saying it's okay for me to just edit what's already been posted in this thread, since I'm the only one who's voted? ProfessorTofty (talk) 06:54, December 23, 2017 (UTC)
- I'm on board for the concept you've outlined, but the terms need some tweaking. Using language in a way that defies its conventional usage will only confuse people. In English, an adjective before a noun means that adjective modifies that noun. Thus the phrases "major spoiler" and "minor spoiler" communicate the level of the spoiler, not the nature of the work in which the spoiler appears. {{Moviespoiler}} is pretty clear-cut; I'm not sure if there's a good catch-all term for everything that's not a movie—maybe just {{Nonmoviespoiler}}? (And haven't we been treating TV episodes the same way as all other works, and only films differently?) Asithol (talk) 18:02, December 29, 2017 (UTC)
- I like that idea. Would you like to go ahead and kill this thread and propose it? Or would you prefer for me to go ahead and start the new thread and then any admin can end this one? Or are you saying it's okay for me to just edit what's already been posted in this thread, since I'm the only one who's voted? ProfessorTofty (talk) 06:54, December 23, 2017 (UTC)
- That makes more sense, sounds good--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 22:19, December 22, 2017 (UTC)
- You're taking the suggested template naming a little too literally. The "Major" and "Minor" titles are just names to distinguish major market releases (films and TV series) from minor releases (print works, mostly), the magnitude of spoilers within notwithstanding. The Major temple would have a project-specific theme for each new use like we're doing now with {{Moviespoiler}}, while the Minor template can just stay with what we're doing with {{Spoiler}} now. We don't need specific template themes for every new novel that comes out, for example. Does that make sense? And we don't need a Mofference to figure this out. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 22:07, December 22, 2017 (UTC)
- A very good question, indeed. It's all fair and good to say that minor would be stuff like novels and comics, but there are those who care about those just as much, especially if it does involve something like a major character. It would be great to discuss all this stuff. Perhaps it's time for another Mofference? It's been over a year since we had one. ProfessorTofty (talk) 21:54, December 22, 2017 (UTC)
- What would happen for example in the novel Dark Disciple a show character Asajj Ventress dies, that would be a major spoiler, but it didn't happened on the show, would the minor spoiler template still be used?--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 21:48, December 22, 2017 (UTC)
- The more I think about this, the more I think maybe we need to turn {{Moviespoiler}} into Template:Majorspoiler and turn {{Spoiler}} into Template:Minorspoiler, and then define each template's role. Like, Major for all film and TV projects, with allowance for the template to be adapted for each new film or show. And Minor for everything else without the need for specific adaptation, which would mostly be novels, comics, and video games. Both templates are quite similar and their use needlessly overlaps in places. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 20:43, December 22, 2017 (UTC)