Forum:CT:Main Page poll

Forums > Consensus track archive > CT:Main Page poll

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The result of the debate was no consensus, defaults to no change. 1358 (Talk) 21:29, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

So, this has been discussed for a few days in the SH, with people on both sides of the issue. Normally, I'd wait until there seems to be consensus emerging before starting a vote, but in this case, TOR comes out in less than a month and a non-snowball CT takes two weeks at minimum, so I think we need to make a decision ASAP. This vote is solely in regard to the specific poll proposed by Mark in the SH thread; if we adopt it and after a while someone wants to create additional polls, that would have to be decided on in a separate CT. I am splitting this into three sections; even if you oppose Issue 1, I encourage you to cast a vote on Issues 2 and 3 anyway.

Note: I am reserving my vote for now while I mull this over a little longer; I just thought we need to decide on this matter sooner rather than later. Master Jonathan — Jedi Council Chambers Saturday, November 26, 2011, 23:03 UTC

Issue 1: Whether to put the poll on the Main Page at all

Exactly what it says on the cover. Do we want this or not?

Support

Polls are a great way to attract and interact with visitors that normally only use the wiki for viewing purposes, and it will reach a far greater audience with much more votes than posting it on Facebook. This way we can also use polls to ask community members about, for example, recent/future changes on the wiki. Also per my Senate Hall comments. Mark (talk) 00:37, November 27, 2011 (UTC) (Vote struck, reason: Per policy: Fewer than 50 mainspace edits -- Toprawa and Ralltiir 00:55, November 27, 2011 (UTC))
  1. Weak support: yes we have plenty of pageviews per day (as said on SH), but the poll is meant to encourage those readers to become contributors. I have no passion to oppose this just because, and am interested to try if it would work. (: – Tm_T@Wookieepedia:~$ 10:14, November 27, 2011 (UTC)
  2. After careful consideration, I couldn't see any problem with this, and like Tm, I am interested to see if it will bring contributors.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 16:58, November 27, 2011 (UTC)
  3. Per Tm. There is no really strong argument towards; this could only benefit us. A small poll occasionally certainly won't ruin our professionality. 1358 (Talk) 07:02, November 28, 2011 (UTC)
  4. Per Tm and Xd. I don't see the harm in making things more interactive for our readers, it will most likely make people more likely to come back. grunny@wookieepedia:~$ 08:32, November 28, 2011 (UTC)
  5. Imperialles 13:33, November 28, 2011 (UTC)
  6. I've always thought an occasional poll would be fun. We may try to be as professional as possible, but this is Star Wars, not Congress. I think we can afford a little less professionalism every once in a while. :P And polls aren't always less professional. MasterFredCommerce Guild(Whatever) 14:53, November 28, 2011 (UTC)
  7. Only as an experiment, to see how it goes. We can always remove it later. ~SavageBOB sig 12:19, November 29, 2011 (UTC)
  8. After a lot of consideration. I agree wholeheartedly with Tm's comments below regarding being more welcoming to newer and unregistered users, and I think that a main-page poll would be a step, however small, in the right direction. Menkooroo 17:37, December 4, 2011 (UTC)
  9. I feel a poll would definitely make the Wiki seem more interactive and perhaps encourage readers to further interact and make edits. Ayrehead02 22:08, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
  10. Per Grunny. I would also like pols more generally to get an additional sense of traffic the site. --Eyrezer 11:26, December 7, 2011 (UTC)
  11. Let's look at the big picture here. Wikia is asking permission before making a change. Such a gesture overcomes my antipathy. Karohalva 15:30, December 7, 2011 (UTC)
  12. Per Tm_T below, MasterFred, and Karo. jSarek 08:23, December 8, 2011 (UTC)
  13. Per Bob, and especially per Karo. I have no strong feelings about this idea one way or another, but just the direction this has taken has persuaded me to support it. Regardless of how this ends, this is how Wikia should approach any change in functionality. And when the community speaks (Subtle, aren't I?), Wikia should listen. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 03:29, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose

  1. For my reasons stated in the SH thread.--Cal JediInfinite Empire (Personal Comm Channel) 23:16, November 26, 2011 (UTC)
  2. seems gimicky. <-Omicron(Leave a message at the BEEP!) 06:13, November 27, 2011 (UTC)
  3. Eh, I feel a poll, while certainly not detracting from our mission, is not necessary. Corellian PremierRobotechAll along the watchtower 21:02, November 27, 2011 (UTC)
  4. See SH thread. -- Riffsyphon1024 08:25, November 28, 2011 (UTC)
  5. Wookieepedia doesn't need cheap bells and whistles to drag people in off the street. We have a tried and true professional look to our operation here that doesn't need to be detracted from by something as tacky as a meaningless poll. At its most basic level, this is little more than a marketing gimmick to pad Wikia's pockets with additional ad revenue traffic, and I find it just a little bit disrespectful that we should be used for something so commercialized. I don't buy the argument that this is somehow going to magically galvanize people into becoming solid contributors because they informed us whether they would rather be a Wookiee or an Ewok. If people come to our wiki in the first place, more often than not it means they're interested in our subject already, and substantive things, like exhibiting our status articles, is what's going to drive user interest, not artificial and contrived gimmickry. Toprawa and Ralltiir 17:26, November 28, 2011 (UTC)
  6. Per Tope JangFett (Talk) 17:46, November 28, 2011 (UTC)
  7. If anything, we need to make the place less attractive to the sort that would be attracted strictly on the basis of social media frippery. (Hide ALL the images!) DD97Which bear is best? 17:17, November 29, 2011 (UTC)
  8. Absolutely per Tope and Dan. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:29, November 29, 2011 (UTC)
  9. I'm not voting here because I think it's "not necessary"; I'm voting here because I honestly believe that this would distract visitors from our actual purpose—providing them with completely comprehensive and entirely accurate information on everything Star Wars. We're not a social networking site, and we're not a message board; we're an encyclopedia. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 19:21, November 29, 2011 (UTC)
  10. I'd only support it as a feature if it were going to be a function of the main page like "DYK" and there were volunteers to run it like Enochf on the QOTD. Long-term or nothing. I can't support a temporary function conceived to stimulate page views for Wikia and agree wholeheartedly both with Tope that this wouldn't serve the advertised purpose and DD that on the chance that it did work on somepeople out there that they wouldn't be the kind of users we need. If they came for the poll then they'd stay for events like the poll, which, regardless of them, we will discontinue if it doesn't have management or we continue to think of it as only a tentative venture without a real niche on the site. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 20:28, November 29, 2011 (UTC)
  11. After thinking about this and reviewing what others have said, I have to agree with Naru. This one-off poll wouldn't serve the purpose envisioned by Wikia, and if we do ever do this in the future, it needs to be permanent (or as permanent as you can get on a wiki) with one or more volunteers willing to keep it fresh. I'd be willing to serve in that capacity, but that's a different discussion. Master Jonathan — Jedi Council Chambers Tuesday, November 29, 2011, 23:42 UTC
  12. Well, I thought it over, looked at both sides, and in the end...I stand by what I said in the Senate Hall thread. We're doing just fine as it is. In the long term, having a poll isn't going to help us, and not having a poll isn't going to hurt us. Respectfully, no thank you. Bella'Mia 01:53, November 30, 2011 (UTC)
  13. As a general rule, I try not to take Wookieepedia too seriously. It is a Star Wars encyclopedia, after all. However, at the risk of making our endeavor here seem more important than it actually is, I will say that I don't find this whole poll idea to be useful or productive. In some cases, frivolity can be fun. This isn't one of those cases. Darth Trayus(Trayus Academy) 22:49, November 30, 2011 (UTC)
  14. The main page is crowded enough already. --Jinzler 23:25, November 30, 2011 (UTC)
  15. Per Tope and Jinzler.ToRsO bOy 23:34, November 30, 2011 (UTC)
  16. I haven't been convinced that a poll would be appropriate for Wookieepedia; saying anything else would only reiterate what has already been said. CC7567 (talk) 06:06, December 1, 2011 (UTC)
  17. To stick to Wookieepedia's principles. TK999 20:03, December 1, 2011 (UTC)
  18. I hate to just jump in, but I do stop by occasionally, and I noticed this. A poll would be unprofessional, ungainly, and unneeded. Chack Jadson (Talk) 00:15, December 9, 2011 (UTC)
  19. Per above. Coruscantfan (Talk) 19:27, December 11, 2011 (UTC)
  20. — Fiolli; 02:18, December 17, 2011 (UTC)

Discussion

Issue 2: If we do this, where should it go?

If Issue 1 produces consensus in favor of this, where do we want it? I'm proposing two options: Mark's original proposal of placing it in the left column between DYK and Official Friends, or placing it in the right column between "In the news" and our blog. Feel free to add other options if you don't like either of those. This issue is moot if Issue 1 fails to achieve consensus. Additionally, due to the lack of any policy or status quo to revert to in case of no consensus, this will be a simple plurality vote.

Left column, below DYK

Right column, under ITN

  1. With bit of CSS it'll look nice here I think. (: – Tm_T@Wookieepedia:~$ 10:14, November 27, 2011 (UTC)
  2. It kind of fits in here.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 16:59, November 27, 2011 (UTC)
  3. Definitely would fit better here, though I'm still agnostic on the general idea. Master Jonathan — Jedi Council Chambers Sunday, November 27, 2011, 17:46 UTC
  4. Going off Xd's test, I would say right-aligned would be better. Corellian PremierRobotechAll along the watchtower 21:02, November 27, 2011 (UTC)
  5. 1358 (Talk) 07:02, November 28, 2011 (UTC)
  6. grunny@wookieepedia:~$ 08:32, November 28, 2011 (UTC)
  7. As long as it's toward the bottom of the right column. idc. MasterFredCommerce Guild(Whatever) 14:53, November 28, 2011 (UTC)
  8. Trusting Tm on this one. :) ~SavageBOB sig 12:19, November 29, 2011 (UTC)
  9. If this passes. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 19:21, November 29, 2011 (UTC)
  10. jSarek 08:23, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Discussion

Issue 3: If we do this, how long should it stay?

If Issue 1 produces consensus in favor of this, how long should the poll stay up? TOR officially comes out on December 20. I've listed a couple options below; feel free to add your own options, but please don't split votes over a matter of just a few days. Like Issue 2 above, this issue is moot if Issue 1 fails to achieve consensus. Additionally, due to the lack of any policy or status quo to revert to in case of no consensus, this will be a simple plurality vote.

Through January 1

Through January 20 (one month after release)

  1. Meh. (: – Tm_T@Wookieepedia:~$ 10:14, November 27, 2011 (UTC)
  2. A month seems good.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 17:03, November 27, 2011 (UTC)
  3. ~Two weeks after the game comes out is not enough, I feel. Corellian PremierRobotechAll along the watchtower 21:02, November 27, 2011 (UTC)
  4. 1358 (Talk) 07:02, November 28, 2011 (UTC)
  5. grunny@wookieepedia:~$ 08:32, November 28, 2011 (UTC)
  6. MasterFredCommerce Guild(Whatever) 14:53, November 28, 2011 (UTC)
  7. I'll go with the bandwagon. Master Jonathan — Jedi Council Chambers Monday, November 28, 2011, 16:44 UTC
  8. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 19:21, November 29, 2011 (UTC)
  9. Ayrehead02 22:10, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

Discussion

General discussion

I think I've covered the major issues above, but if there's an issue I've left out, let me know. Master Jonathan — Jedi Council Chambers Saturday, November 26, 2011, 23:03 UTC

  • Is this simple majority? What's the resolution in the event of a tie? —Unsigned comment by Dangerdan97 (talk • contribs)
    • For Issue 1, the decision will be made in accordance with Wookieepedia:Consensus#Consensus_track, which specifies that a supermajority of between two-thirds and three-fourths, depending on total number of votes cast, is neccessary for passage. A tie, or anything close to a tie, would be "no consensus", which would default to the status quo, in this case no poll. The other two issues are explicitly a simple plurality because there is no status quo to default to. I'm not sure how a tie would be broken, but currently it doesn't look like either one will result in a tie. Master Jonathan — Jedi Council Chambers Tuesday, November 29, 2011, 17:55 UTC

Here's some comments more from me. I still find our community working quite well even if, and I have to apologise in advance that the following comment is more of a general rant than anything else: I don't believe that poll related to major releases occasionally would harm our wiki in any way; it would not distract away from the fact that we aim to be well-written and comprehensive encyclopedia. I also don't believe it would turn readers to solid contributors (alone).

Here comes something from single POV and ranty: I do believe it would provide significantly lower first step towards contributing in our wiki than what we have now; I see our wiki bit too elite-centric and scary place for someone who hasn't learned yet how encyclopedia wikis works, and personally I don't like that. The point I'm trying to make is; there would be nothing to lose and lot to gain if we (especially including myself) would try make sure we don't set us "old timers" and new yet-to-be-learned users against each other, but instead to the same side with common goal. /me huggles all (: – Tm_T@Wookieepedia:~$ 19:34, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with every thing that you just said Tm ive often considered registering and becoming more active but it seems as if the long term editors look down on us 'newcomers'. we can't all use wiki coding and the irc yet but little things like polls (which take up very little room) should help to bring in more minor editors and help us become a part of the community. Sorry if this was off topic but i thought someone should show its not just established users paying attention to this. 95.144.96.82 22:12, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

I completely agree with Tm T. It doesn't have to be a poll, but engaging our readers and making the site a little more interactive can help make them into editors. This could lead us to having many good article writers who otherwise wouldn't have thought to edit the site. I think we set too high a bar on new users as well. We could be doing a lot to help new users become good editors, rather than expecting them to have read every policy before even clicking edit and then scaring them off with a harsh warning (I'm guilty of this as many of us are). Most of our active users, including the 'old-timers' of the wiki, didn't start out as great editors who knew how to use wikitext and link properly, and I don't think we should expect everyone else to be. </rant> :) grunny@wookieepedia:~$ 23:08, November 30, 2011 (UTC)
^ This × 100. If you'll excuse me for using a Wikipedia term, this site as a whole is way too BITEy. We could gain a lot more users if we were far more gentle with newbies and attempted to teach them how the site works instead of expecting them to know everything before they start editing. Master Jonathan — Jedi Council Chambers Wednesday, November 30, 2011, 23:56 UTC
I completely agree with Grunny and MJ above on the point that we can make a stronger effort to be less scary and harsh in interactions with new users. However, I still don't see how adding a poll to the main page will bring us more worthwhile users: when I see a poll on the internet, I don't think, "I feel more welcome on this website." I think instead we should put more effort into being more openly helpful and friendly to new contributors, if that concern is what's really at the heart of this whole concept. (Apologies if this comes across as wiki-lawyering or whatnot; I just think it's important to discuss things from all angles. I feel like we often skip over constructive discussions in favor of just slapping a vote down somewhere and not actually getting to the bottom of an issue; so I won't be offended by anyone who disagrees or tries to change my mind, etc. Per TM—I still love you all!) :D Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 01:50, December 1, 2011 (UTC)
I agree with Jon 100%. Darth Trayus(Trayus Academy) 02:03, December 1, 2011 (UTC)
Per Jugs. I wasn't going to say anything about this at first, since it doesn't really have anything to do with this CT. However, I think I'll throw my thought in. I think it would be worth while to be more friendly to new users. I remember when I first joined and I thought that I wouldn't be able to make it since there were so many rules and everyone was so strict. However, looking back I see that that was all necessary. I stayed on this site and didn't leave when I felt discouraged or mad at a user for being too harsh because I love Wookieepedia. Not to sound like I'm being prideful by using myself as the example, but I'm the example I know the best. The type of users that we want contributing are the users who are going to do great work because they want to and because they love Wookieepedia and its topic. If we have to cater to the new user's needs, rather than the new users catering to Wookieepedia, then it is all wrong. I definitely think it would be good to be kind to new users. But not at the expense of protocol. They need to learn, just like all of us "experienced users" had to learn. I don't think this has anything to do with this CT, however, since I don't believe that that is the true reason why this CT was brought up. I'm dragging on again, but to summarize: I think we should encourage new users, but not at the expense of lowering our standards and quality just because we want new users. If a user only comes here because he/she wants to use our polls, chances are they are not going to be a good, quality, consistent user. I hope you get where I'm coming from and what I mean. And per Tm and Jugs—Cheers to ya! :P --Cal JediInfinite Empire (Personal Comm Channel) 02:08, December 1, 2011 (UTC)
Good to see that I was not alone feeling that, and I have to once more apologize that I most likely put this out in the wrong place, but I felt I need to have it off my chest now and couldn't figure out any better place. I agree entirely with Grunny that it doesn't has to be this poll, or any poll, but I don't want to see we as community shooting everything down that isn't just for us. I'm really glad you others managed to put my thoughts into words well better than I did. (: – Tm_T@Wookieepedia:~$ 08:11, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

Re: Jang Fett: I dont do much editing anyway but for some reason my IP keeps changing and sometimes includes other peoples edits. I have thought about making an account but there never seems to be a need to for minor editors like me.95.144.96.235 17:10, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

Hi anon, I actually would like you to have an account (just like anyone who plans to contribute more than once, so second edit -> account) so we have possibility to address you personally wether its something we want you to know or to ask you something. (: – Tm_T@Wookieepedia:~$ 19:41, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

I was just thinking that. So I have. :) Gdh9 20:02, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

  • How does not having ads anymore feel? :) NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 23:47, December 1, 2011 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.