Forum:CT:FFG and canon

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The result of the debate was No consensus, insufficient voter participation. Imperators II(Talk) 10:38, February 7, 2019 (UTC)
Forums > Consensus track archive > CT:FFG and canon

The situation about Fantasy Flight Games products and the new canon, has been complicated. Members of the Lucasfilm Story Group try to avoid publicly answering on whether it's canon or not.

  • The 1st tweet from Matt Martin bring this to the table: "There are always concessions made for the sake of gameplay but it's probably about as close to canon as you could get? If that makes any sense. I'd say that about any FFG title released in recent years." which means that yes, in his opinion, subjects appearing in FFG products can work inside canon within recent years. It has to be determined on a case by case basis from what point FFG moves away from Star Wars Legends and moves closer to canon.
  • The 2nd tweet mentions: "I wouldn't consider any of them completely canon. Like I said, there are considerations made for gameplay." This means that besides the gameplay implications, FFG products are not 100% exclusively canon.
  • The 3rd tweet now mentions: "There isn't a black and white answer for this question. I know that's what Wook would want, but there just isn't. I, personally, think it's safe to use stuff like your examples for Wook but that's just my opinion." It can be deduced that for the Wook, it would be ideal to paste the canon label at the top and treat it as canon, but we also know that in their opinions, we should keep names from legends until contradicted, which was rejected in a previous CT.
  • The 4th tweet states:"I said essentially that IN MY OPINION for the sake of Wookieepedia I would put FFG in the canon tab unless contradicted elsewhere. If future stories contradict it, consider the new thing as more accurate." This assures that in his own opinion, it would be easier to label canon until is contradicted somewhere else.

The purpose of this CT is for the creation of the following template that was discussed on a previous SH: The creation on a {{Tales1-20}}-like template. Basically, it would be the same situation that we had with Star Wars Tales, but in this case, it would be FFG. The template practically states what members of the Story Group have said were their personal opinions on Fantasy Flight Games, in which its content has some level of canonicity ("I wouldn’t consider any of them completely canon" or "it's probably as close to canon as you could get") unless it's contradicted elsewhere ("I would put FFG in the canon tab unless contradicted elsewhere"). With this template, we can tag the information in articles as canon (as many editors already do), but warn readers that it may not be 100% canonical.

The template is going to be used on articles with FFG exclusive characters, locations, etc, as well as possibly articles with some sections derived from information in FFG products if people feel we need something like {{Talesstart}} for existing canon characters, which we can implement in the future. This would not be used for obvious Legends content.

The template would be the following:

Atticon

The subject of this article appeared only in a Fantasy Flight Games product that was referenced in no other canon source.

Lucasfilm considers Fantasy Flight Games content to have some level of canonicity within the continuity unless is contradicted elsewhere. Editor discretion is advised.

See here for the usage example


With this CT there is also a proposal to modify the Wookieepedia:Canon policy. Currently this is the policy on FFG products:

"The canon status of Fantasy Flight Games' ongoing roleplaying systems—Edge of the Empire, Age of Rebellion, and Force and Destiny—are publicly undetermined. Heddle has stated, "We'll figure it out." However, as these roleplaying games are based nearly exclusively in Star Wars Legends material, Wookieepedia treats them as Legends."

and it would change to this:

"The canon status of Fantasy Flight Games' ongoing roleplaying systems is publicly undetermined. Matt Martin from the Story Group stated that in his opinion, "It's probably as close to canon, but he wouldn’t consider any of them completely canon," and also mentioned, "That for the sake of Wookieepedia I would put FFG in the canon tab unless contradicted elsewhere. If future stories contradict it, consider the new thing as more accurate." Wookieepedia treats FFG products from recent years as having a level of canonicity within the canon continuity."

The support would be for the change of policy, and the creation and implementation of the template above.--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 09:18, January 22, 2019 (UTC)

Support

Oppose

Discussion

The alteration to the canon policy would certainly need to make reference to specific years. For example, all FFG material from before the April 2014 announcement about Legends should still definitely be considered Legends. From what I've seen of the more recent books, as well as from discussion with Tope, any FFG books from 2016 onward seem to be pretty consistently just canon material. The post announcement 2014 and 2015 books still include material that is very clearly Legends, such as material that specifically refers to content from The Old Republic. These would certainly need to be treated separately, probably on a case by case basis. Ayrehead02 (talk) 11:50, January 22, 2019 (UTC)

  • I have a question regarding this policy, which is especially relevant to me, since it can heavily affect one of my own articles. We have Friends Like These, an adventure published in 2016, which heavily features the Zygerrians, who exist in both continuities, with the bulk of their history (namely, the TCW stuff) being the same for both Legends and Canon. Under the current canon policy's stipulation that FFG is treated as Legends, I have incorporated the information from the adventure into the Legends page for the species. If the policy were to change, does it mean that the info that comes from the adventure would need to be moved from Zygerrian/Legends to Zygerrian? It is, after all, "a more recent FFG publication." And there is nothing that prevents the Friends Like These info from being canon or explicitly points to it being set in the Legends universe. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 13:21, January 22, 2019 (UTC)
    • My opinion is that it stays as Legends because I've read the book and there's really nothing that would indicate it's canon except for things in both continuities like Zygerrians. Also, when talking about "a more recent FFG publication" it's more for 2017 and 2018 and now 2019 as those books are more consistent with canon than books published in 2014, 2015, and some in 2016. 2016 is a tricky year, since some books fall more in place with Legends and some fall more in place with canon.--Vitus InfinitusTalk 15:28, January 22, 2019 (UTC)
      • That's why I agree with Ayre's point above. There needs to be a distinct cutoff point. The policy should say something along the lines of "Wookieepedia considers all FFG material from 2017 and onward canon, as well as following books published prior" with a list of specific books below, compiled through community consensus. That's just my two cents. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 16:53, January 22, 2019 (UTC)
        • Just to clarify, Vitus is right in saying that 2014-2016 are the problematic years while 2017 onward is fine, I got the dates mixed up. Ayrehead02 (talk) 17:08, January 22, 2019 (UTC)
        • Recent years can be changed to clarify that from 2017 onwards are the ones to be treated as more canon--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 19:36, January 22, 2019 (UTC)
          • Agreed. 2016 will have to be a case by case basis I think.--Vitus InfinitusTalk 01:13, January 24, 2019 (UTC)