Wookieepedia:Votes for deletion/Quote:Karen Traviss/Renomination

This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was keep; see also Forum:Real-world quote pages - Sikon (Vacation) 10:19, 19 August 2006 (UTC).

Followed both of StarNeptune's advices by closing the vote as no consensus and restarting it. (previous VFD nomination) - Sikon [Talk] 13:57, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Delete

Summary: This page should be deleted because it's not worth the trouble it has caused or because you think we should not have quote pages at all or because of some other reason.

1. Delete. I think I'd prefer to see it just go away altogether. Some good arguments were made for this in the first vote. But if not, I'd vote "Keep and restrict." WhiteBoy 07:34, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
2. Delete. Causes way more trouble than it's worth. It's STILL the only quote page that exists for an author, which I think really says something. --Azizlight 14:05, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
3. Delete. I think the page is not interesting, and has not very much to do with Star wars, since it's the quotes of just an author who, well, wrote a Star Wars Novel, ok, but... it seemed like a Q&A with her... All quotes or answers of her can be explained in related articles. TO mention the first quote, the question can be answered in an article about the subject he asked something...So just delete it. --Galak Fyarr 16:25 (BELGIAN time), 10 August 2006
4. SFH 14:38, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
5. Cutch 14:55, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
6. Anakin Thomas 15:02, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
7. Delete. There's nothing that can be done with an author quotes page that can't be done better with a detailed biography in the main article. Although I voted keep in the original vote I just don't think the community can be trusted to act maturely with this, so if kept it should be with major restriction - which kinda negates the point of wiki. HavetStorm 16:07, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
   • Agreed, which is why I'm leaving my vote here instead of Keep but restrict. WhiteBoy 18:37, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
8. Delete No need for it --Voldemort2123 22:04, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
9. Delete, please see comment below.--Mikda Fopal no timestamp, not counted
10. Rhysode 04:27, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Keep

Keep and expand

1. Sikon [Talk] 13:57, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
2. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 14:19, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
3. Kuralyov 02:03, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
4. Vermilion 02:41, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
5. TopAce 14:39, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
6. --Jerry 02:06, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
7. Bodknocks 04:48, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
8. VT-16 14:01, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
9. Darth Culator ^(Talk) 14:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
10. SithRebel1206 14:18, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
11. Tam 14:21, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
12. Hollis 15:12, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
13. Aitrym Quar 15:26, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
14. Themelle444 15:43, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Keep but restrict

A vote for this option (as I understand it) does not mean that no further quotes can or should be added. It does mean that any quotes must be fully referenced and meant for public consumption (i.e. from public blog posts or message board posts, interviews with the media, statements printed in books or articles, or statements from public speeches at conventions (though that last would be harder to source or quote accurately.)) They must also be given in sufficient context, so the quote we list would be understood the same way as it would when reading the full original context. Finally, her quotes must be about either Star Wars, her process when writing fiction, or something similar. Anything that's solely related to her opinion of particular fans or groups of fans, her opinion of other writers, her politics, or any fan feuds she may figure in should be left out. (The same would go for other real-world Wookieequote pages.) —Silly Dan _(talk) 14:47, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

1. As long as it's watched in order to ensure it's entirely quotes which are properly referenced, given in sufficient context, and related to her work on Star Wars, this should be OK. —Silly Dan _(talk) 19:59, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
2. Only sourced, verifiable quotes. Well-defined criteria on what's relevant. Maybe a process for deciding on quotes. -LtNOWIS 01:18, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
3. KEJ 10:00, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
4. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 01:00, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
5. As long as they are sourced and in context, go for it. StarNeptune^{Talk to me!} 14:14, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
6. Commander Darc 03:26, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
7. Sulgran 20:52, 9 August 2006 (UTC) -I agree what Silly Dan said
8. Jedi Dude 14:32, 10 August 2006 (UTC) - if they remain neutral and un-biased and within a context that is useful then fine.
9. Skippy Farlstendoiro 14:47, 10 August 2006 (UTC) - Ditto
10. Doran 15:12, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
11. DarthMaul431 15:41, 10 August 2006 (UTC) It definitely has way too many quotes irrelevant to this site but if more SW-related quotes can be found then we should keep it.
12. Public consumption SW quotes only. -Finlayson 15:51, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
13. This sounds pretty good to me. Fatguy2006 15:52, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
14. RMF 21:06, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
15. Fine, I'll break the tie. Havac 18:29, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
16. Restrict we must. Riffsyphon1024 04:01, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Comments

Before we get a big backlog of people voting keep for differing reasons, does anyone else agree that the keep votes should be divided into "keep and expand" and "keep but restrict", to reflect the divisions which we saw in the first vote? —Silly Dan _(talk) 15:44, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

• Good idea. Done. - Sikon [Talk] 16:13, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
  • "It's STILL the only quote page that exists for an author". Nay. Quote:Timothy Zahn exists, too. StarNeptune^{Talk to me!} 14:12, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
    • That was my fault: I just wanted to point out that a quote page for an author isn't inherently a vehicle for disgruntled fans to make him or her look bad. —Silly Dan _(talk) 14:33, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
• A sitenotice? Wow. -- Darth Culator ^(Talk) 14:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Is a sitenotice really necessary? Mightn't it just make the issue look bigger than it is and further polarize the community? —Silly Dan _(talk) 14:21, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
    • I'm more worried about how the sitenotice always kriffs up the {{Title}} template. -- Darth Culator ^(Talk) 14:52, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
• Maybe about a little clarification on exactly what "Keep and expand" and "Keep but restrict" means for those who were not involved in the previous vote and don't know the history. My perception: the "expanders" are of the mindset that anything the author says is valid content for the page, regardless of its relevance. See a previous version of the page as an example of how this would be. The "restricters" are of the mindset that there should be discretion in choosing which quotes are used on the page. See the current version of the page as an example of how this would be. I think that someone besides me should write these summaries and put them right under the section heading so people are clear what they are voting for. I will go ahead and write the summary for the Delete section. WhiteBoy 14:29, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
  • a site notice, well at least something will finally be done about this mess. Jedi Dude 14:49, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
    • So it's currently "Keep and expand": 10, "Keep but restrict": 9, and "Delete": 5. How on Earth will this end for good? Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 14:58, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I have a feeling the sitenotice is going to cause more problems than it solves. StarNeptune^{Talk to me!} 15:02, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

• Agreed. But what will be done with this page if its fate is never decided? Keep nominating it for deletion? Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 15:03, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
• The notice is nothing more than votefarming, blatantly against the rules of conduct posted on this very page. Whoever did it, I'm assuming must have been grasping at straws to see this page deleted. Kuralyov 15:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
  • That notice must be removed. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 15:09, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Actually, Kuralyov, it was Sikon, who's voting on your side. I would support deleting the site notice for now, though. —Silly Dan _(talk) 15:13, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
• SithRebel1206 and Aitrym Quar have very few edits. This page was their 5th and 6th edits, respectively. -LtNOWIS 15:57, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
  • To be fair, neither of them are single interest fans, and have been lurking for months. They likely only voted due to the sitenotice invitation. Both votes should be considered perfectly valid. —Silly Dan _(talk) 16:06, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
    • So it's now 13, 13, and 7. How much longer will this vote go on? Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 16:18, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
  • I deleted the sitenotice. Sorry if it caused any inconvenience. I actually wanted consensus to emerge, but the votes are still split almost evenly, like they were before I put it. - Sikon [Talk] 16:19, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
    • My proposed solution is this: Since the overwhelming majority has voted keep (with restrictions or not, both before and after the sitenotice), this discussion will be closed with the result being keep. However, a thread in the Consensus Track will be opened, which will serve as the discussion point for a future real world quotes policy. Just my two credits. - Sikon [Talk] 16:23, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
      • It seems to be heading that way, but I'd suggest waiting a couple of days first. (Yes, I know this has gone on for nearly a month already. Still think we should wait.) —Silly Dan _(talk) 17:47, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
        • As an author, it pays to keep PR quotes up anywhere, but for a fansite like, the quotes are somewhat out-of-place IMHO. Ms. Traviss should be mentioned as a contributor to the Star Wars universe with her work, but quotes and interviews are not all that important unless they actually reveal something profound about the subject. Many authors do freelance work, whether they are fans of a subject or not; it appears to me that Ms. Traviss is a freelancer and wrote the books only because she was paid to. Keep up a general biography of her and her work, and cut out the rest. Mikda Fopal
        • How about a run-off between the top two choices? For example, I am close on the line of a "Keep but restrict" vote (and suspect that others who have also voted delete may be too), but just think that deleting it is a better long-term solution. WhiteBoy 18:52, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
          • I don't think so. That wouldn't be fair. The majority has voted keep, not delete. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 19:03, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
            • Er, the top two choices are different varieties of keep. I have no objections to a runoff vote, and agree with Sikon's suggestion of a CT thread for articles on real people. —Silly Dan _(talk) 21:23, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
              • A runoff vote sounds good, as long as someone doesn't put a "Delete" section in the vote. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 22:18, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
                • If "Delete" doesn't get a majority, and is the most or second most popular option, of course we'd put it as an option. That's how runoff votes work, after all. That's not the case right now, but if the votes shift before we start a runoff vote, things could change. —Silly Dan _(talk) 22:29, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
                  • A runoff vote sounds good, except it won't make much sense for it to be on VFD if it only allows two keep options. - Sikon [Talk] 13:24, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
                    • I agree, a runoff vote would be good. But as Sikon points out, it would be weird if it was on VfD. A better place would be the article's talk page. -LtNOWIS 03:45, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
                      • Well, now the majority is "Keep but restrict". What to do, what to do? Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 22:42, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
                        • The same thing. Label it as keep, and have a discussion on the talk page about what quotes are allowed. -LtNOWIS 06:20, 19 August 2006 (UTC)