01:59:51 <@Toprawa> !hieverybody
01:59:51* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m]
01:59:52 <@Nuku-Nuku> Hello, AV-6R7, Ayrehead02, Boots, ChanServ, CorellianPremier, Culator, Cwedin, DarthRuiz30, DeFender1031, ecks, exiledjedi, GreenTentacle, grunny, Imperators, Jangston, Lewis, momoyome, Nuku-Nuku, Omicron, PurpleTentacle, Supreme_Emperor, Tm_T, Tommy-Macaroni, Toprawa, Typer, and Whopper !!!
01:59:57* Topic for #wookieepedia is: Wookieepedia, the Space-Based Disagreements Fandom - http://wookieepedia.com - Channel/site status: Mofference IN PROGRESS - Off-topic chatter: #wookieepedia-social
01:59:57* Topic for #wookieepedia was set by ecks!ecks@wookieepedia/administrator/pdpc.active.ecks on Sun Mar 4 01:51:53 2018
01:59:59 <@Toprawa> And here we go
02:00:02 <@Toprawa> Welcome to Mofference 2018
02:00:06 <@Toprawa> We're going to dive right in
02:00:15 <@Toprawa> We'll start with item 1 on the agenda
02:00:20 <@Toprawa> Which happens to be me
02:00:45 <@Toprawa> This is our Administrative autonomy policy: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:AA
02:00:46 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Wookieepedia:Administrative autonomy | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
02:00:52 <@Toprawa> Shouldn't be any surprises to anyone
02:01:36 <@Toprawa> Just going to get right to the point
02:01:49 <@Toprawa> I am proposing we update/modify the page as so: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Zev_Senesca
02:01:50 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Toprawa and Ralltiir/Zev Senesca | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
02:01:59 <@Toprawa> That's my project page; forgive the title
02:02:03 <@Toprawa> This isn't really changing anything
02:02:27 <@Toprawa> It's just outlining in much greater detail the well-established procedures that we have developed over the 15 years we've been a wiki
02:02:59 <@Toprawa> More specifically, it gives greater instructional emphasis to how to proceed when overturning an admin decision
02:03:12 <@Toprawa> Before, it was kind of loosely organized at best based on that one sentence from the existing policy page
02:03:14 <@Toprawa> Ok, that's it
02:03:16 <@Toprawa> Let's talk
02:03:17 <@Toprawa> ecks
02:03:18* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m]
02:03:23 <@ecks> Floor is open
02:03:43 <AV-6R7> Seems like an obvious inclusion. No objections on my part.
02:03:47-!- Typer (~Tyber@wookieepedia/Tyber) has left #wookieepedia
02:03:49 <@ecks> I really like the protection clause, since admins tend to slap indefinite protections on articles and there's no way to undo those without asking them
02:03:53 <@Culator> This is good. I like that it addresses former admins, which I had actually meant to bring up at some point but never got around to.
02:03:53 <@Supreme_Emperor> It's all very straight forward and essentially just clarifies what we've been doing, so definitely yes
02:03:53-!- Tyber (~Tyber@wookieepedia/Tyber) has joined #wookieepedia (acc: Tyber)
02:03:53* ChanServ sets modes [#wookieepedia +v Tyber]
02:04:00 <@ecks> which essentially makes WP:RFP absolutely useless
02:03:59 <Boots> Looks good to me.
02:04:07 <Omicron> sounds good to me
02:04:14 <DarthRuiz30> Same here, all good
02:04:15 <Tommy-Macaroni> Great!
02:04:17 <@ecks> so no objections from me here
02:04:20 <@Ayrehead02> Works for me
02:04:25 <@Toprawa> We'll give it a minute or so to let people read through it, since there is a bit there
02:05:15 <@Toprawa> If anyone has any comments, speak up now before we begin the vote
02:05:29 <Lewis> That all looks good to me
02:05:32 <@exiledjedi> I assume canonical applies to both Legends and Canon?
02:05:38 <@Toprawa> Yes
02:05:47 <DarthRuiz30> question: Is this going to help with for example HK-47 article?
02:05:52 <@ecks> yes
02:06:00 <@Toprawa> That was the specific example that helped influence this
02:06:21 <@Toprawa> Ok, let's vote
02:06:23 <@Toprawa> ~open
02:06:23 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
02:06:26 <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support
02:06:27 <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
02:06:28 <@Culator> ~support
02:06:28 <@PurpleTentacle> Culator: Support vote counted.
02:06:30 <@Toprawa> ~support
02:06:31 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
02:06:33 <@ecks> ~support
02:06:31 <@PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
02:06:32 <AV-6R7> ~support
02:06:32 <@PurpleTentacle> AV-6R7: Support vote counted.
02:06:33 <@grunny> ~support
02:06:33 <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
02:06:34 <DarthRuiz30> ~support
02:06:34 <@PurpleTentacle> DarthRuiz30: Support vote counted.
02:06:34 <@GreenTentacle> ~support
02:06:34 <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted.
02:06:36 <@Ayrehead02> ~support
02:06:36 <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted.
02:06:36 <@exiledjedi> ~support
02:06:36 <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
02:06:38 <CorellianPremier> ~support
02:06:38 <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
02:06:39 <Boots> ~support
02:06:39 <@PurpleTentacle> Boots: Support vote counted.
02:06:40 <@Imperators> ~support
02:06:40 <@PurpleTentacle> Imperators: Support vote counted.
02:06:41 <Cwedin> ~support
02:06:41 <@PurpleTentacle> Cwedin: Support vote counted.
02:06:43 <Tommy-Macaroni> ~support
02:06:43 <@PurpleTentacle> Tommy-Macaroni: Support vote counted.
02:06:49 <Lewis> ~support
02:06:49 <@PurpleTentacle> Lewis: Support vote counted.
02:07:02 <@Toprawa> Vote will close in 10 seconds. Vote now or forever hold your piece, peace? I don't know.
02:07:13 <@Toprawa> ~close
02:07:13 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
02:07:15 <@Toprawa> ~tally
02:07:15 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 16
02:07:18 <@Toprawa> Vote passes, 16-0
02:07:20 <@Toprawa> Moving on.
02:07:20* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m]
02:07:23 <@Toprawa> Item 2.
02:07:28 <@Toprawa> Is me.
02:07:55 <@Toprawa> Ok
02:08:09 <@Toprawa> We're all familiar with the skin choice between Oasis (Wikia) and Monobook
02:08:28 <@Toprawa> Many of our established users like to use Monobook, which is fine
02:08:47 <@Toprawa> However, the vast, vast majority of people who look at our wiki are seeing our articles in the default skin, which is Oasis
02:09:06 <@Toprawa> Like, we have a circle of like 10-20 core editors who use Monobook
02:09:09 <@Toprawa> The rest of the world is using Oasis
02:09:14 <@Toprawa> That's like 99.9%
02:09:27 <@Toprawa> So we should be formatting our articles as such
02:09:50 <@Toprawa> It's become a practice now for a few months on the different nomination pages to tell peopel to format paragraphs and images for Oasis, for example
02:10:06 <@Toprawa> Because due to the vast difference in margin sizes between the two skins, an image placement in one place might look completely different between the two skins
02:10:17 <@Toprawa> I'm presuming most of us are familiar with this concept
02:10:23 <@Toprawa> If not, raise it when we open the floor and we can show examples probably
02:10:46 <@Toprawa> So I am proposing an addition to the MOS and LG that standardizes this formatting.
02:11:02 <@Toprawa> No one is going to force anyone to change skins, but we should be mindful of how we're formatting our articles
02:11:21 <@Toprawa> These, then, are my proposals: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Zev_Senesca
02:11:22 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Toprawa and Ralltiir/Zev Senesca | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
02:11:34 <@Toprawa> Note, this is not going as far as saying "Oasis is the official skin of Wookieepedia."
02:11:51 <@Toprawa> We're not officially recommending any skin to anyone
02:11:58 <@Toprawa> But as far as article writing, you should be formatting for Oasis
02:12:00 <@Toprawa> Ok, let's talk
02:12:02* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -mv Tyber]
02:12:18 <@Supreme_Emperor> Totally makes sense
02:12:24 <Tommy-Macaroni> Seems logical
02:12:26 <@ecks> Monobook forever. But you're right -- I overheard somewhere that around 200 of wikia's million users use Monobook
02:12:29 <Omicron> can you provide a little more detail to the policy?
02:12:36 <@ecks> and it's completely possible it might be gone by the end of the year
02:12:35 <AV-6R7> Basically, we’re just codifying standard practice, right?
02:12:38 <@Culator> It makes sense. I hate it, but it makes sense.
02:12:40 <@Toprawa> Yes, AV
02:12:45 <Tyber> I would add the mobile skin to the mix.
02:12:48 <@Toprawa> Omicron, I'm not sure what else you need to see
02:13:12 <@Toprawa> I'm not intending to address mobile with this topic
02:13:18 <@Culator> We can add the mobile skin to the mix when the mobile skin stops blowing goats.
02:13:19 <@Toprawa> If you want to discuss mobile, that's a completely different animal
02:13:22 <@Toprawa> Save it for a new topic
02:13:25 <@Ayrehead02> As someone who switched over to Oasis permanently for this very reason, I fully support this
02:13:29 <Boots> I always format in Oasis for precisely this reason. Since it's what most people see it makes the most sense to give the most attention to this format. I support these changes.
02:13:29 <@Culator> Oasis sucks, but at least it doesn't blow goats.
02:13:41 <Omicron> it's sort of vague: Wookieepedia articles are to be formatted for ideal presentation in the Wikia skin, also known as Oasis.
02:13:50 <@Supreme_Emperor> I typically edit in Oasis for this reason
02:14:02 <@Supreme_Emperor> I think it's pretty clear
02:14:11 <DarthRuiz30> sounds good
02:14:14 <Lewis> No arguments here
02:14:14 <@Toprawa> It's intentionally meant to be a general policy, Omicron
02:14:18 <@ecks> For y'all Monobook users, there's a piece of JS that can give you an oasis button at the top of every page
02:14:17 <@Toprawa> To apply to everything
02:14:21 <@ecks> PM me if you want it
02:14:29 <@Toprawa> Whatever you're formatting, make sure it looks good in Oasis
02:14:36 <@Toprawa> Above all else
02:15:03 <@Supreme_Emperor> Best thing to keep in mind is people need to see things from a reader point of view
02:15:08 <AV-6R7> At the very least, we’ll have more room for images.
02:15:12 <Omicron> I guess it's good to specify the policy, it might come in handy for objections to FAN/GAN/CAN
02:15:21 <@ecks> yep
02:15:21 <@Toprawa> That's particularly what it's for
02:15:32 <@Toprawa> Article writers and reviewers should get in this habit
02:15:39 <@Toprawa> Our emphasis has long been on Monobook
02:16:06 <@Toprawa> Ok, I think we're good to vote, then
02:16:12 <@Toprawa> Speak up now or else
02:16:21 <@Toprawa> ~open
02:16:21 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
02:16:25 <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support
02:16:25 <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
02:16:25 <Lewis> ~support
02:16:26 <@PurpleTentacle> Lewis: Support vote counted.
02:16:27 <@grunny> ~support
02:16:27 <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
02:16:27 <AV-6R7> ~support
02:16:27 <Tommy-Macaroni> ~support
02:16:27 <@PurpleTentacle> AV-6R7: Support vote counted.
02:16:28 <@Ayrehead02> ~support
02:16:28 <@PurpleTentacle> Tommy-Macaroni: Support vote counted.
02:16:28 <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted.
02:16:28 <Cwedin> ~support
02:16:28 <@PurpleTentacle> Cwedin: Support vote counted.
02:16:29 <Boots> ~support
02:16:29 <DarthRuiz30> ~support
02:16:29 <@PurpleTentacle> Boots: Support vote counted.
02:16:29 <@exiledjedi> ~support
02:16:29 <@PurpleTentacle> DarthRuiz30: Support vote counted.
02:16:29 <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
02:16:32 <@Culator> ~sigh
02:16:36 <CorellianPremier> ~support
02:16:36 <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
02:16:36 <@Toprawa> ~support
02:16:36 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
02:16:36 <@Culator> ~support
02:16:37 <@PurpleTentacle> Culator: Support vote counted.
02:16:39 <@ecks> ~support
02:16:38 <@PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
02:16:52 <@Imperators> ~support
02:16:52 <@Toprawa> Voting will close in 10 seconds
02:16:52 <@PurpleTentacle> Imperators: Support vote counted.
02:16:55 <@GreenTentacle> ~support
02:16:55 <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted.
02:16:56 <Omicron> ~support
02:16:56 <@PurpleTentacle> Omicron: Support vote counted.
02:17:05 <@Toprawa> ~close
02:17:05 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
02:17:07 <@Toprawa> ~tally
02:17:07 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 17
02:17:10 <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 17-0
02:17:11 <@Toprawa> MOVING ON
02:17:12 <@Culator> I want so badly to oppose on principle.
02:17:13* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m]
02:17:17 <@Toprawa> ECKS
02:17:28 <@ecks> woo, it's me
02:17:36 <@ecks> Here's the currrent policy http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:BOLD
02:17:36 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Wookieepedia:Be bold in updating pages | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
02:17:55 <@ecks> you'll see it has plenty of Wikipedia links and that's because it was originally stolen, I mean adapted, from Wikipedia
02:18:10 <@ecks> but we aren't Wikipedia and it's about time we Wookify it
02:18:18 <@ecks> so here's my proposal: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Xd1358/test1
02:18:18 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Xd1358/test1 | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
02:18:31 <@ecks> Here's the difference between the old and the new: http://starwars.wikia.com/index.php?title=User%3AXd1358%2Ftest1&diff=7459031&oldid=7423494
02:18:31 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Xd1358/test1 | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
02:18:45 <@ecks> There are no major changes, really
02:18:52 <@ecks> OK, I'm opening the floor for discussion
02:18:54* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m]
02:18:56 <@Toprawa> Cool image. I support. :P
02:18:59 <@Imperators> ^
02:19:11 <Boots> ^
02:19:14 <@Supreme_Emperor> It looks "ecks"cellent
02:19:27 <@ecks> (⌐■_■)
02:19:29 <@Supreme_Emperor> XD
02:19:30 <Omicron> I would include something about sourcing
02:19:59 <@ecks> Do you think a See also link would be enough?
02:20:39 <@Culator> Yes. "Be bold" is not something we link in isolation, so it doesn't need DETAIL on sourcing.
02:20:41 <@ecks> I thought about sourcing, but this is really a landing page for newbies
02:20:46 <@ecks> exactly
02:20:56 <@ecks> I'd be ok with a See also link, however
02:20:56 <Omicron> possibly. maybe a sentence like "We appreciate your additions, but please make sure to properly source them"
02:21:02 <Omicron> and link to the WP:S page
02:21:33 <@Ayrehead02> If your additions are unsourced others are likely to be bold enough to remove them
02:21:44 <@Supreme_Emperor> Source or die
02:21:44 <@Toprawa> Be bold to source, or be bold to DIE
02:21:44 <AV-6R7> heh
02:21:46 <Omicron> I would add it to the don't be wreckeless paragraph
02:22:16 <@ecks> I added a See also link now, but I'm not comfortable with making up something right now
02:22:28 <@ecks> while I understand your point, I don't feel a newbie landing page needs to cover everything
02:22:33 <DarthRuiz30> a See also would work for me
02:22:37 <@Supreme_Emperor> If need be we ca revisit it at a later point
02:22:38 <@ecks> You don't teach toddlers multiplication
02:22:41 <@Culator> ^
02:22:44 <@Culator> ^^
02:22:46 <@Toprawa> You do if they go to Harvard at age 9 :P
02:22:49 <AV-6R7> burn
02:22:52 <@Culator> It doesn't link sourcing NOW
02:23:09 <Omicron> true. but telling people to be bold and add info, without telling them how important it is to source it
02:23:10 <@Culator> We don't need to get into it to do this badly-needed update
02:23:18 <Omicron> seems like a little short-sighted
02:23:18 <Boots> I don't think we should sound too harsh with sourcing sentence. In fact I'd rather leave it out. The whole point of this page is to make new editors feel confident about editing on the site. Saying, "be bold, but don't screw up the sourcing" in addition to "don't be reckless" kinda defeats the spirit of the article.
02:23:22 <@ecks> that's what the welcome template is for
02:23:31 <@ecks> or rather, the new proposed template :P
02:23:38 <@Supreme_Emperor> Also if someone messes up we point it out fairly quickly
02:23:50 <@Supreme_Emperor> This doesn't need to cover every single thing
02:23:55 <@Toprawa> Omicron, maybe (and sorry if I missed this if you said it already) you could show us exactly where in the page you would like to see this and exactly what you'd like to say
02:24:02 <@Toprawa> Due to the immediacy of this forum, we need specifics
02:24:07 <@Toprawa> Not just "I'd like to see this general thing"
02:24:36 <Omicron> I would add it to the reckless paragraph
02:24:54-!- Lewis (~Lewisr@wookieepedia/Lewisr) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:25:08 <@Toprawa> Can you quote for us what you'd like it to say?
02:25:20-!- Lewis (~Lewisr@wookieepedia/Lewisr) has joined #wookieepedia (acc: Lewisr)
02:25:20* ChanServ sets modes [#wookieepedia +v Lewis]
02:25:26* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -v Lewis]
02:25:44 <@Toprawa> Or at least give us a general paraphrase
02:25:55 <@Toprawa> We need to keep this moving
02:25:58 <Omicron> maybe something like: "We appreciate your enthusiam and welcome all additions, but please be sure to follow our sourcing requirements
02:26:02 <Omicron> and link to WP:S
02:26:09 <@Toprawa> Any objections?
02:26:24 <@Supreme_Emperor> Nope
02:26:26 <AV-6R7> None from me.
02:26:27 <@Toprawa> ecks?
02:26:32 <@Ayrehead02> Works for me
02:26:33 <Tommy-Macaroni> Sounds good
02:26:48 <@ecks> where exactly are you going to put this?
02:26:56 <Boots> I'd recommend adding on "...for edits that add more than simple spelling and grammatical fixes."
02:27:03 <Omicron> yeah
02:27:25 <@Supreme_Emperor> We don't need to go too in detail with it Boots
02:27:28 <@ecks> quoting Boots, "Saying, "be bold, but don't screw up the sourcing" in addition to "don't be reckless" kinda defeats the spirit of the article." and I feel like sticking your proposed sentence in there would indeed be doing exactly that
02:27:34 <Omicron> maybe modify it to state "Factual additions"
02:28:19 <@ecks> ok, my proposal is:
02:28:26 <@ecks> "When making edits, remember to use descriptive edit summaries." <-- tack it onto the end here
02:28:35 <@ecks> When making edits, remember to use descriptive edit summaries and [[WP:S|source your additions]].
02:28:34 <@grunny> how about changing "When making edits, remember to use descriptive edit summaries." to "When making edits, remember to use descriptive edit summaries and follow our sourcing guidelines."?
02:28:40 <@grunny> or what ecks said ;)
02:28:44 <@ecks> great minds think alike, grunny
02:28:56 <Omicron> sounds good
02:28:58 <@Toprawa> Ok
02:29:02 <@GreenTentacle> Works for me.
02:29:03 <@Toprawa> With that amendment, we open voting
02:29:05 <@Toprawa> ~open
02:29:05 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
02:29:12 <@Toprawa> ~support
02:29:12 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
02:29:12 <@Imperators> ~support
02:29:12 <@PurpleTentacle> Imperators: Support vote counted.
02:29:13 <Tommy-Macaroni> ~support
02:29:13 <@PurpleTentacle> Tommy-Macaroni: Support vote counted.
02:29:14 <@grunny> ~support
02:29:14 <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
02:29:14 <Omicron> ~support
02:29:14 <@PurpleTentacle> Omicron: Support vote counted.
02:29:14 <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support
02:29:14 <@GreenTentacle> ~support
02:29:14 <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
02:29:15 <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted.
02:29:15 <AV-6R7> ~support
02:29:15 <Lewis> ~support
02:29:15 <@PurpleTentacle> AV-6R7: Support vote counted.
02:29:15 <DarthRuiz30> ~support
02:29:15 <@PurpleTentacle> Lewis: Support vote counted.
02:29:15 <@PurpleTentacle> DarthRuiz30: Support vote counted.
02:29:16 <Cwedin> ~support
02:29:16 <@PurpleTentacle> Cwedin: Support vote counted.
02:29:16 <@exiledjedi> ~support
02:29:16 <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
02:29:22 <@ecks> ~support
02:29:21 <@PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
02:29:23 <Boots> ~support
02:29:23 <@PurpleTentacle> Boots: Support vote counted.
02:29:25 <CorellianPremier> ~support
02:29:25 <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
02:29:28 <@Culator> ~support
02:29:28 <@PurpleTentacle> Culator: Support vote counted.
02:29:31 <@Toprawa> Voting closes in 10 seconds
02:29:38 <@Ayrehead02> ~support
02:29:39 <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted.
02:29:43 <@Toprawa> ~close
02:29:44 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
02:29:45 <@Toprawa> ~tally
02:29:46 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 17
02:29:48 <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 17-0
02:29:50 <@Toprawa> MOVING ON
02:29:56 <@Toprawa> JANG ISN'T HERE.
02:29:58* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m]
02:30:03 <@Toprawa> But we will propose his proposal for him nonetheless
02:30:26 <@Toprawa> The future of the Community Portal
02:30:30 <@Toprawa> "I honestly believe, due to its age and inspiration from Wikipedia, that we should just get rid of the portal since it's repeating the same information new users get from the welcome template and Wookieepedia:Welcome, newcomers. Once we remove the portal, we can then remove the community portal link from Oasis's navigation bar, replacing it with "Wookieepedia:Welcome, newcomers," which, right now, is oddly accessed by clicking
02:30:30 <@Toprawa> Oasis's "NAVIGATION" link.
02:30:30 <@Toprawa> "
02:30:35 <@Toprawa> Love and kisses, JangFett
02:30:39 <@Toprawa> OPEN THE FLOOR
02:30:41* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m]
02:30:51 <@ecks> I like the idea of a community portal
02:30:56 <@ecks> but the current implementation is outdated
02:31:11 <@Supreme_Emperor> Kill it
02:31:15 <@ecks> some of the links are completely broken or to go outdated pages
02:31:17 <Omicron> heh it's got a link for Netscape on it
02:31:24 <@ecks> ^
02:31:27 <Omicron> bin it!
02:31:41 <@ecks> That said, I'd love to implement some sort of updated community portal in the future
02:31:44 <@Supreme_Emperor> ^
02:31:46 <@ecks> but for now, kill it with fire
02:31:51 <AV-6R7> Let the past die.
02:31:54 <@Culator> The Community Portal is very 2004. Which is odd, since we were founded in 2005.
02:31:55 <Omicron> I agree ecks
02:32:13 <@exiledjedi> This thing was old when I started.
02:32:17 <@Toprawa> This will effectively be a proposal to delete it, then, just making note of that
02:32:19 <@ecks> these colors are from the 80s
02:32:18 <@grunny> yeah, I think kill and continue to improve other pages as we are doing, like the welcome template. We can always make a new one in some form in the future
02:32:34 <Tommy-Macaroni> Kill
02:32:35 <@Supreme_Emperor> The Welcome template is far more useful anyways for new users
02:32:39 <DarthRuiz30> I agree with ecks
02:32:47 <@ecks> my idea would be some sort of page that shows all ongoing discussions and votes in one place, and more
02:32:49 <Omicron> I agree
02:32:51 <@ecks> but enough about that for now
02:32:53 <@Toprawa> Ok, minds seem clear, let's open voting
02:33:01 <@Toprawa> To kill (delete) the Community Portal
02:33:03 <@Toprawa> ~open
02:33:03 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
02:33:05 <@grunny> ~support
02:33:06 <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
02:33:07 <@ecks> ~support
02:33:06 <@PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
02:33:08 <@Toprawa> ~support
02:33:08 <Omicron> ~support
02:33:08 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
02:33:08 <@PurpleTentacle> Omicron: Support vote counted.
02:33:08 <Cwedin> ~support
02:33:08 <@PurpleTentacle> Cwedin: Support vote counted.
02:33:09 <@Ayrehead02> ~support
02:33:09 <Tommy-Macaroni> ~support
02:33:09 <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted.
02:33:09 <@PurpleTentacle> Tommy-Macaroni: Support vote counted.
02:33:09 <@exiledjedi> ~support
02:33:09 <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
02:33:09 <Lewis> ~support
02:33:10 <@PurpleTentacle> Lewis: Support vote counted.
02:33:12 <CorellianPremier> ~support
02:33:12 <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
02:33:12 <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support
02:33:12 <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
02:33:12 <DarthRuiz30> ~support
02:33:13 <@PurpleTentacle> DarthRuiz30: Support vote counted.
02:33:13 <@Culator> ~support
02:33:13 <@PurpleTentacle> Culator: Support vote counted.
02:33:14 <@Imperators> ~suport
02:33:18 <AV-6R7> ~support
02:33:18 <@PurpleTentacle> AV-6R7: Support vote counted.
02:33:18 <Boots> ~support
02:33:18 <@PurpleTentacle> Boots: Support vote counted.
02:33:22 <@Imperators> ~support
02:33:22 <@PurpleTentacle> Imperators: Support vote counted.
02:33:23 <@Toprawa> Voting closes in 10 seconds
02:33:31 <@Toprawa> ~close
02:33:31 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
02:33:33 <@Toprawa> ~tally
02:33:33 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 16
02:33:37 <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 16-0
02:33:38 <@Toprawa> MOVING ON
02:33:43* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m]
02:33:45 <@Toprawa> TOPRAWA
02:33:50 <@Toprawa> BTS sourcing.
02:33:53 <@Toprawa> Loved by some
02:33:55 <@Toprawa> Not loved by others
02:34:24 <@Toprawa> For many years, some people thought "self-sourcing" was going a bit too far
02:34:37 <@Toprawa> Forcing people to source at all was like pulling teeth in the beginning
02:34:58 <@Toprawa> In this CT, we made full-article referencing mandatory http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:CT_Archive/Updating_the_referencing_policy
02:34:59 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Forum:CT Archive/Updating the referencing policy | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
02:35:16 <@Toprawa> But in the discussion section, the proposal made clear that due to its contentiousness, BTS sourcing would not be tackled here
02:35:28 <@Toprawa> I say it's time to evolve out of our Caveman Days
02:35:43 <@Toprawa> These are our basic Sourcing rules
02:35:54 <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:S#Rules
02:35:55 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Wookieepedia:Sourcing | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
02:36:08 <@Toprawa> I am proposing we add this to Rule 5: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Zev_Senesca
02:36:09 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Toprawa and Ralltiir/Zev Senesca | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
02:36:17 <@Toprawa> Note the reference explanation is what shows up in the next section
02:36:20 <@Toprawa> Ok, let's talk
02:36:23* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m]
02:36:36 <@ecks> OOU articles are basically one big BTS and they need sourcing
02:36:39 <@Toprawa> I should have noted this too:
02:36:42 <@Supreme_Emperor> Yes
02:36:45 <@ecks> Why wouldn't the same apply to IU article BTS sections?
02:36:46 <@Toprawa> OOU articles already do this by default
02:36:54 <@Toprawa> We have a few OOU status articles for real people, etc.
02:36:59 <@Toprawa> And they're forced to do this by this CT
02:37:08 <@Toprawa> But the BTS was considered different ground for some reason
02:37:08 <@Supreme_Emperor> This should be a thing, so lets make it a thing
02:37:09 <AV-6R7> I’ve always done this anyways.
02:37:11 <Boots> Everything should be referenced and sourced. I approve.
02:37:22 <@exiledjedi> It is really easy to slip in non-sourced information into self-sourcing BTS sections.
02:37:31 <@Ayrehead02> I converted to the full referencing way long ago
02:37:33 <Boots> I'm surprised this wasn't a policy already.
02:37:51 <@Toprawa> We did too -- the Inq has accidentally made this a probation reason for some articles recently
02:37:51 <AV-6R7> ^
02:37:58 <@Toprawa> Then we realized it wasn't strictly policy yet
02:38:02 <@Supreme_Emperor> XD
02:38:05 <@exiledjedi> I've never really understood the opposition to doing this.
02:38:05 <@Supreme_Emperor> So we did
02:38:13 <@ecks> Nobody expects the Wookieepedia Inquisition.
02:38:37 <@Ayrehead02> Is anyone here opposed to this? It seems like the contention might have faded since it was last discussed
02:38:48 <DarthRuiz30> everything should be referenced, I agree
02:38:55 <@Toprawa> I think the overall mindset of the community has definitely changed
02:38:56 <@GreenTentacle> Lazy sourcing was fun while it lasted.
02:38:59 <Tommy-Macaroni> Sounds great
02:39:01 <@ecks> heh
02:39:01 <@Supreme_Emperor> We've evolved a lot since that last vote Ayre
02:39:10 <@Toprawa> Ok, let's vote
02:39:12 <@Toprawa> ~open
02:39:12 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
02:39:15 <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support
02:39:15 <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
02:39:15 <@grunny> ~support
02:39:15 <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
02:39:16 <@Toprawa> ~support
02:39:16 <Tommy-Macaroni> ~support
02:39:16 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
02:39:16 <@PurpleTentacle> Tommy-Macaroni: Support vote counted.
02:39:17 <@Ayrehead02> ~support
02:39:17 <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted.
02:39:18 <Cwedin> ~support
02:39:18 <@PurpleTentacle> Cwedin: Support vote counted.
02:39:22 <@ecks> ~support
02:39:20 <@PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
02:39:22 <DarthRuiz30> ~support
02:39:22 <@PurpleTentacle> DarthRuiz30: Support vote counted.
02:39:24 <AV-6R7> ~support
02:39:24 <@PurpleTentacle> AV-6R7: Support vote counted.
02:39:26 <CorellianPremier> ~support
02:39:26 <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
02:39:26 <@Imperators> ~support
02:39:26 <@PurpleTentacle> Imperators: Support vote counted.
02:39:27 <@GreenTentacle> ~support
02:39:27 <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted.
02:39:29 <@exiledjedi> ~support
02:39:29 <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
02:39:31 <Lewis> ~support
02:39:31 <@PurpleTentacle> Lewis: Support vote counted.
02:39:34 <@Culator> ~support
02:39:34 <@PurpleTentacle> Culator: Support vote counted.
02:39:35 <Boots> ~support
02:39:35 <@PurpleTentacle> Boots: Support vote counted.
02:39:43 <@Toprawa> Voting closes in 10
02:39:51 <@Toprawa> ~close
02:39:51 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
02:39:52 <@Toprawa> ~tally
02:39:52 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 16
02:39:55 <@Toprawa> Motion passes, 16-0
02:39:56 <@Toprawa> MOVING ON
02:40:00* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m]
02:40:02 <@Toprawa> ECKS
02:40:12 <@ecks> Its a me
02:40:17 <@ecks> Alright, the Welcome template
02:40:21 <@ecks> The first thing any new editors see
02:40:27 <@ecks> the thing that everyone is supposed to read
02:40:35 <@ecks> and it hasn't been updated since, like, 2009?
02:40:50 <@ecks> as it is, it's basically a list of every policy we have on the site
02:41:06 <@ecks> Of course it's funny to imagine new editors actually read all those policies
02:41:09 <@ecks> but let's face it, they don't
02:41:20 <@ecks> Meet the new welcome template: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Xd1358/test2
02:41:20 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Xd1358/test2 | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
02:41:25 <@ecks> Major changes include:
02:41:33 <@ecks> The color theme has been changed to a fresh Wookieepedia light blue.
02:41:33 <@ecks> The endless lists of links that no one will ever read have been transformed into five concise bullet points with links to our core policies.
02:41:33 <@ecks> A bunch of links have been removed altogether as unnecessary; obscure policies and outdated help pages are gone.
02:41:39 <@ecks> The == heading == has been moved outside the template, to prevent the TOC from appearing inside the template like it does currently.
02:41:49 <@ecks> Convenient diff link: http://starwars.wikia.com/index.php?title=User%3AXd1358%2Ftest2&diff=7424379&oldid=7423514
02:41:49 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Xd1358/test2 | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
02:42:03 <@ecks> I posted in the SH asking for feedback, but there wasn't much to it http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:SH:Welcome_template_2.0
02:42:03 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Forum:SH:Welcome template 2.0 | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
02:42:12 <@ecks> So, let's open the floor
02:42:13* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m]
02:42:16 <@Toprawa> Be bold, indeed
02:42:22 <@Supreme_Emperor> It's "ecks"actly what it needed
02:42:23 <Omicron> I gave my feedback in the SH
02:42:28 <Omicron> I like it
02:42:35 <Tommy-Macaroni> Love it!
02:42:36 <AV-6R7> I looked over the SH thread; looks good to me.
02:42:43 <@ecks> the image is a bit outdated but I haven't been able to find a good replacement
02:42:44 <@Toprawa> Not going to hold up the discussion on this, of course, but maybe center-align MTFBWY?
02:42:46 <Boots> I like the changes. Much needed and more important now that the Community Portal has been deleted.
02:42:49 <@ecks> and that can always be changed at a later time
02:42:48 <DarthRuiz30> looks really good
02:42:55 <@ecks> Toprawa, remember that the signature comes after it
02:42:53 <@Ayrehead02> I like all of it, my only suggestion is perhaps mentioning canon/legends tabs?
02:42:57 <@Toprawa> Oh yeah
02:43:04 <@Toprawa> I've been trounced
02:43:38 <@ecks> I thought about that, but honestly I'm not sure if it's that necessary or even where to put it
02:43:40 <@Ayrehead02> I've seen a lot of new users clearly not understand the separation, for example Jddeezoologist or whatever he was called most recently
02:44:22 <@Ayrehead02> Hmm, I could see it as a bullet point of its own
02:44:25 <@Ayrehead02> Something like
02:44:53 <Omicron> I agree
02:45:03 <@Toprawa> I'm not sure if adding more text is in the template's best interest
02:45:09 <@Toprawa> People are already not going to read those six bullet points
02:45:14 <Boots> ^
02:45:14 <@Toprawa> Not to impugn ecks' work
02:45:16 <Cwedin> ^
02:45:18 <@Toprawa> But no one reads shit
02:45:23 <@Culator> ^^
02:45:25 <Tommy-Macaroni> Quality, not quantity
02:45:29 <@Ayrehead02> Hmm
02:45:31 <@Supreme_Emperor> People are inherently lazy
02:46:02 <Omicron> still it would be nice to highlight the difference between the two continuities
02:46:03 <@Ayrehead02> Ok, I agree that it being as concise as possible is good
02:46:17 <@ecks> is there anything in those bullet points that can be removed?
02:46:43 <@Toprawa> I realize the tab difference is important, but I think most people seem to get it
02:46:45 <@Toprawa> The number of confused cases is relatively small
02:46:46 <@Ayrehead02> And people seem generally opposed to adding more, so I'm happy to leave it for now if that's the general feeling
02:46:59 <@Ayrehead02> We can always add it at a later date if it's becoming a major issue
02:47:18 <@ecks> correct, and we have a template too, {{msg-continuity}}
02:47:19 <Omicron> maybe expand the 3rd point to include "Make sure your additions are in the right continuity
02:47:30 <@exiledjedi> The people who don't understand the tabs probably won't read the welcome message either.
02:47:39 <@Ayrehead02> Fair point
02:47:41 <@Supreme_Emperor> ^^
02:47:46 <AV-6R7> ^^^
02:47:55 <@ecks> if y'all didn't know about it already, but this is a thing: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Msg-continuity
02:47:56 <@ecks> use it
02:47:55 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Template:Msg-continuity | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
02:48:03 <@Toprawa> This is a thing too. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:FAQ#Canon_questions
02:48:04 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Wookieepedia:FAQ | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
02:48:05 <@Toprawa> Not that people read.
02:48:06 <@Supreme_Emperor> We can't prevent ignorance, but we can correct it with talk page warnings
02:48:10 <@Toprawa> If that doesn't mention the tabs, it certainly can
02:48:18 <@ecks> and Msg-continuity is barely a warning
02:48:19 <@Imperators> I don't know if the bit about the user page and signature is that important
02:48:19 <@Toprawa> But that page is linked in the Oasis top nav bar
02:48:21 <@ecks> more like a heads-up
02:49:02 <@ecks> I felt like we needed a bullet point to focus on privileges instead of responsibilities, Imperators
02:49:43 <@Toprawa> New users are typically obsessed with their userpages too
02:49:50 <@ecks> yeah
02:49:50 <@exiledjedi> I think all of the bullets in the proposed template kind of need to be there.
02:49:55 <@Supreme_Emperor> ^
02:49:56 <@Imperators> I mean, the voting eligibility link is good, tho
02:50:11 <@Toprawa> I think it tackles the brass tacks of what people need to know
02:50:15 <@Toprawa> It's up to them to read
02:50:42 <AV-6R7> Lead a horse to water and all that.
02:50:50 <Omicron> I still think it might be important to say something about the 2 continuties
02:50:52 <@Toprawa> We can always discuss future modifications in the SH, too
02:51:01 <@Toprawa> We're voting on this, but it doesn't need to mean "NO MORE CHANGES"
02:51:03 <@ecks> yeah, I'm not opposed to adding more later
02:51:13 <@ecks> the image can/should be changed too, imo
02:51:15 <Omicron> it seems like most of the reverts are because of people adding things to the wrong articles
02:51:25 <@ecks> but I can't think of anything better right now, so I'm leaving it to a later time
02:51:26 <@Toprawa> I mean, we have giant tabs on most high-profile articles
02:51:26 <Omicron> admitidely, it's usually anons
02:51:32 <@Toprawa> Most people seem to get the gist
02:51:36 <@Toprawa> I'm not sure we need to explain it for people
02:51:43 <@ecks> Omicron, to be fair a ton of reverts are due to speculation and that's in the template too
02:51:45 <@Supreme_Emperor> We can revisit it later if need be. As EJ said, they probably aren't going to read it anyways
02:51:47 <@ecks> people really don't read
02:52:06 <@ecks> even if our welcome template was one big box that read "NO SPECULATION", people would STILL add speculation
02:52:08 <Omicron> yeah overall I like the template revision, this can be adressed later
02:52:15* @ecks nods
02:52:19 <@Toprawa> Ok, let's vote
02:52:23 <@Toprawa> ~open
02:52:23 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
02:52:27 <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support
02:52:27 <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
02:52:28 <@ecks> ~support
02:52:27 <@GreenTentacle> ~support
02:52:27 <@PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
02:52:27 <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted.
02:52:28 <Tommy-Macaroni> ~support
02:52:28 <@PurpleTentacle> Tommy-Macaroni: Support vote counted.
02:52:28 <@Toprawa> ~support
02:52:28 <Boots> ~support
02:52:28 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
02:52:28 <@PurpleTentacle> Boots: Support vote counted.
02:52:28 <@Ayrehead02> ~support
02:52:29 <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted.
02:52:29 <@grunny> ~support
02:52:29 <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
02:52:30 <Omicron> ~support
02:52:30 <@PurpleTentacle> Omicron: Support vote counted.
02:52:30 <Cwedin> ~support
02:52:30 <@PurpleTentacle> Cwedin: Support vote counted.
02:52:31 <AV-6R7> ~support
02:52:31 <@PurpleTentacle> AV-6R7: Support vote counted.
02:52:32 <CorellianPremier> ~support
02:52:32 <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
02:52:33 <@Culator> ~support
02:52:34 <@PurpleTentacle> Culator: Support vote counted.
02:52:36 <Lewis> ~support
02:52:36 <@PurpleTentacle> Lewis: Support vote counted.
02:52:38 <DarthRuiz30> ~support
02:52:38 <@PurpleTentacle> DarthRuiz30: Support vote counted.
02:52:38 <@Imperators> ~support
02:52:38 <@PurpleTentacle> Imperators: Support vote counted.
02:52:42 <@exiledjedi> ~support
02:52:42 <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
02:52:45 <@Toprawa> Vote closes in 10
02:52:55 <@Toprawa> ~close
02:52:55 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
02:52:56 <@Toprawa> ~tally
02:52:56 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 17
02:52:59 <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 17-0
02:53:00 <@Toprawa> MOVING ON
02:53:04* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m]
02:53:06 <@Toprawa> IMPERATORS
02:53:59 <@Imperators> OK. So, the Inq has a Redux procedure, and so does the AC. The EC needs one, too.
02:54:15 <@Imperators> For those who aren't familiar with it,
02:54:17 <@Imperators> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Imperators_II/test2
02:54:18 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Imperators II/test2 | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
02:54:50 <@Imperators> basically, if a Comprehensive article is significantly updated/changed, it enters Redux
02:55:03 <@Imperators> where ECs review the article
02:55:42 <@Imperators> the rules and mechanics: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Imperators_II/test4
02:55:43 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Imperators II/test4 | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
02:55:57 <@Imperators> the article template: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Imperators_II/test3
02:55:58 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Imperators II/test3 | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
02:56:36 <@Imperators> and a thing for archiving passed/failed Redux pages http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Imperators_II/test5
02:56:37 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Imperators II/test5 | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
02:57:37 <@Imperators> in the EC version of the process, all the review entries are listed on the single Redux page, and three EC votes are needed to pass, and only ECs can vote
02:58:16 <@Imperators> I've probably said it all. Ecks?
02:58:19* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m]
02:58:23 <@Toprawa> Quick question
02:58:43 <@Toprawa> Maybe it's in there, but I'm not really reading all that :P
02:58:47 <@Supreme_Emperor> I supported it before, and I support it now
02:58:56 <@Toprawa> Is there a specific number that constitutes a redux?
02:59:03 <@Toprawa> Like for FAN, I think we actually defined a number of bytes
02:59:06 <@Toprawa> Like 10,000 or something
02:59:15 <@Imperators> no, there isn't going to be for CAs.
02:59:31 <@Toprawa> What is your guideline, then, for a redux? Since CAs are so short
02:59:45 <@Imperators> we (as in the EC) reasoned most changes are going to be significant relative to the size of a CA
03:00:05 <CorellianPremier> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:EduCorps/Meeting_45/Log
03:00:06 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Wookieepedia:EduCorps/Meeting 45/Log | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
03:00:10 <@Imperators> and sometimes an article can be significantly changed without the total bytesize increasing much
03:00:26 <@ecks> I'd be fine leaving it to EC discretion
03:00:31 <CorellianPremier> That was the discussion - an article-by-article basis
03:00:33 <@Toprawa> Yeah, I'm fine with that
03:00:44 <@Supreme_Emperor> Case by case was our best bet, imo
03:00:46 <@Toprawa> I'd imagine for CAs due to the length, it's basically if someone rewrites an article
03:01:32 <@Imperators> actually, sorry, I forgot to link the most recent example: http://starwars.wikia.com/index.php?title=Thuna_system&diff=7323505&oldid=7250086
03:01:34 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Thuna system | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
03:01:44 <@Imperators> which basically influenced this proposal
03:01:56 <@Toprawa> Yeah, that's a pretty major expansion for a CA
03:02:16 <@Toprawa> Ok, I presume we're all moderately familiar with the concept of redux, since it's been around for a while?
03:02:25 <@Toprawa> If not, speak up, ask questions
03:02:40 <@Toprawa> Otherwise, we will vote.
03:02:55 <@Toprawa> We're going to get out of here before the top of the hour
03:02:58 <@Toprawa> ~open
03:02:58 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
03:03:02 <@ecks> ~support
03:03:01 <@PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
03:03:03 <Omicron> mak~support
03:03:03 <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support
03:03:03 <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
03:03:03 <@Toprawa> ~support
03:03:03 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
03:03:04 <Cwedin> ~support
03:03:04 <@PurpleTentacle> Cwedin: Support vote counted.
03:03:04 <@exiledjedi> ~support
03:03:05 <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
03:03:06 <@GreenTentacle> ~support
03:03:06 <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted.
03:03:06 <Boots> ~support
03:03:06 <@PurpleTentacle> Boots: Support vote counted.
03:03:07 <@Culator> ~support
03:03:07 <@PurpleTentacle> Culator: Support vote counted.
03:03:08 <@Ayrehead02> ~support
03:03:08 <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted.
03:03:09 <DarthRuiz30> ~support
03:03:09 <@PurpleTentacle> DarthRuiz30: Support vote counted.
03:03:09 <@Imperators> ~support
03:03:09 <@PurpleTentacle> Imperators: Support vote counted.
03:03:10 <Lewis> ~support
03:03:10 <@PurpleTentacle> Lewis: Support vote counted.
03:03:14 <Tommy-Macaroni> ~support
03:03:14 <@Toprawa> Omicron, you should vote again
03:03:14 <@PurpleTentacle> Tommy-Macaroni: Support vote counted.
03:03:19 <CorellianPremier> ~support
03:03:19 <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
03:03:25 <Omicron> ~support
03:03:25 <@PurpleTentacle> Omicron: Support vote counted.
03:03:33 <@Toprawa> Closing in 10
03:03:40 <@Toprawa> ~close
03:03:40 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
03:03:44 <@Toprawa> ~tally
03:03:45 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 15
03:03:46 <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 15-0
03:03:48 <@Toprawa> MOVING ON
03:03:51 <@Toprawa> IMPERATORS AGAIN
03:03:53* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m]
03:03:58 <@ecks> go go go
03:05:13 <@Imperators> OK, so this is simply a wish for consistency. Here, http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Comprehensive_article_nominations, under How to nominate, item 8 states "Users may not vote on their own articles."
03:06:06 <@Imperators> Here, http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Featured_article_nominations, item 7 under "How to vote" has "Per Inquisitorius consensus, no Inquisitor may use their Inqvote on their own nominations. "
03:06:22 <@Imperators> WP:GA has nothing of the sort. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Good_article_nominations
03:06:23 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Wookieepedia:Good article nominations | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
03:07:05 <@Imperators> I propose we uniform-ify this by changing/adding what WP:CAN says to both WP:FAN and WP:GAN
03:07:15 <@Imperators> i.e., no self-voting whatsoever.
03:07:56 <@Imperators> We recently had a precedent where a newbie GAN nominator self-voted, but fortunately removed their own vote.
03:08:11 <@Imperators> That's it. ecks
03:08:13* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m]
03:08:17 <@Toprawa> So I could have been non-Inqvoting on my own nominations this whole time? Why does no one tell us these things?
03:08:19 <@Supreme_Emperor> Yes
03:08:22 <@GreenTentacle> I thought we did this years ago.
03:08:22 <@Imperators> Yes
03:08:25 <@ecks> You still have time
03:08:27 <Omicron> hah
03:08:30 <@ecks> time to get your votes in, folks
03:08:43 <Omicron> no ballot box stuffing!
03:08:46 <@Culator> Yeah, we should make the FAN rule consistent and make it mention regular and Inq votes.
03:08:55 <@ecks> Why is this under "How to nominate" and not under "how to vote"?
03:09:00 <@Supreme_Emperor> XD
03:09:25 <AV-6R7> Knowing about this would’ve expedite things.
03:09:25 <@Imperators> maybe because you could tack your own vote on the nomination page when you're nominating the article? I dunno.
03:09:36 <@ecks> fair enough
03:10:00 <@ecks> ok, no objections from me here
03:10:06 <@Toprawa> Ok, this is straightforward
03:10:07 <@Toprawa> Let's vote
03:10:10 <@Toprawa> ~open
03:10:10 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
03:10:13 <@ecks> ~support
03:10:12 <@PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
03:10:13 <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support
03:10:13 <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
03:10:13 <@grunny> ~support
03:10:13 <Lewis> ~support
03:10:14 <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
03:10:14 <@PurpleTentacle> Lewis: Support vote counted.
03:10:14 <AV-6R7> ~support
03:10:14 <@PurpleTentacle> AV-6R7: Support vote counted.
03:10:14 <Tommy-Macaroni> ~support
03:10:15 <@PurpleTentacle> Tommy-Macaroni: Support vote counted.
03:10:15 <Omicron> ~support
03:10:15 <@PurpleTentacle> Omicron: Support vote counted.
03:10:15 <@Toprawa> ~support
03:10:15 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
03:10:16 <@Imperators> ~support
03:10:17 <@PurpleTentacle> Imperators: Support vote counted.
03:10:17 <@exiledjedi> ~support
03:10:18 <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
03:10:18 <Cwedin> ~support
03:10:18 <@PurpleTentacle> Cwedin: Support vote counted.
03:10:19 <@Culator> ~support
03:10:19 <@PurpleTentacle> Culator: Support vote counted.
03:10:25 <DarthRuiz30> ~support
03:10:25 <@PurpleTentacle> DarthRuiz30: Support vote counted.
03:10:31 <CorellianPremier> ~support
03:10:31 <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
03:10:38 <@Toprawa> Voting closes in 10
03:10:39 <@GreenTentacle> ~support
03:10:39 <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted.
03:10:50 <Boots> ~support
03:10:50 <@PurpleTentacle> Boots: Support vote counted.
03:10:50 <@Toprawa> ~close
03:10:50 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
03:10:52 <@Ayrehead02> ~support
03:10:53 <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: There is no open vote on this channel.
03:10:56 <@Toprawa> ~tally
03:10:56 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 16
03:11:00 <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 16-0
03:11:01 <@Toprawa> MOVING ON
03:11:03* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m]
03:11:06 <@Toprawa> TOPRAWA
03:11:17 <@Toprawa> The following may bore Canon editors, but bear with us
03:11:22 <@Toprawa> Who knows, this may affect you someday
03:11:54 <@Toprawa> Actually, let's backtrack
03:11:59 <@Toprawa> This is kind of a two-part vote actually
03:12:34 <@Toprawa> Now that we're doing Oasis by default for formatting, most of us should be aware that too many cascading items in infoboxes looks shitty
03:12:44 <@Toprawa> Particularly, this is in regards to the Affiliations field
03:13:03 <@Toprawa> If you go anywhere past two items, pretty much, you start to run out of space and stuff gets pushed onto another line
03:13:09 <@Toprawa> It just looks bad, and it's unnecessary
03:13:44 <@Toprawa> Waiting for loading...
03:13:54 <@Toprawa> I am proposing we add this to the infobox section of the LG: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Zev_Senesca
03:13:55 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Toprawa and Ralltiir/Zev Senesca | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
03:14:09 <@Toprawa> Note, the first part of that is already in the LG
03:14:15 <@Toprawa> It's the Affiliations part that we're voting on
03:14:23 <@Toprawa> Ok, let's talk
03:14:27 <@ecks> Zev Senesca is on fire tonight
03:14:28* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m]
03:14:43 <@Toprawa> We should be able to determine the two most critical affiliations for a character
03:14:45 <@Toprawa> Like:
03:14:47 <@Toprawa> *Galactic Empire
03:14:48 <AV-6R7> I’ve already started doing this.
03:14:49 <@ecks> OK, to clarify here: Does "a maximum of two cascading items" include the "top level bullet"
03:14:48 <@exiledjedi> So for affiliations, I assume we would list the most general and the most specific?
03:14:50 <@Toprawa> **Stormtrooper Corps
03:14:52 <@Toprawa> We don't need
03:14:53 <@Toprawa> *Galactic Empire
03:14:56 <@Toprawa> **Imperial Military
03:14:58 <@Toprawa> **Stromtrooper Corps
03:15:00 <@Toprawa> ***501st Legion
03:15:04 <Boots> Wrong
03:15:04 <@Toprawa> It's too much
03:15:05 <Lewis> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wedge_Antilles?diff=7214129&oldid=7212650 is an example where it got out of hand
03:15:05 <Boots> Its
03:15:07 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Wedge Antilles | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
03:15:12 <Boots> *Galactic Empire
03:15:15 <@Toprawa> One question at a time.
03:15:17 <Boots> **Imperial military
03:15:19 <@Toprawa> Let me try EJ first
03:15:21 <@Culator> jebus
03:15:22 <Boots> ***Imperial Army
03:15:29 <Boots> ****Stormtrooper Corps
03:15:35 <Boots> *****501st Legion
03:15:41 <Tommy-Macaroni> I do this so much but it's fair enough that it needs to stop
03:15:43 <@Toprawa> EJ> I think it would be up to individual articles at the discretion of the editors to determine the two most important
03:16:02 <@ecks> Toprawa, so this means just * and ** are allowed? or does "cascading item" mean "in addition to the first *"?
03:16:16 <Tyber> Wouldn't it be better to have it a bit more general?
03:16:17 <@Toprawa> ecks> It's intended to mean two bullet items. We can rephrase the proposal if need be
03:16:21 <Tyber> Like
03:16:23 <@Toprawa> *One
03:16:24 <@Toprawa> **Two
03:16:25 <@Toprawa> No more
03:16:28 <Tyber> *Galactic Empire
03:16:31 <Tyber> *New Republic
03:16:36 <@ecks> I'm thinking referring to them as sub-bullets or something might be better
03:16:45 <@Toprawa> Tyber> There is no proposed limit on that example
03:16:56 <@Toprawa> It's meant to be one cascading sub-bullet
03:16:56 <@Culator> Okay, so it should specify a maximum *depth* of two, then.
03:17:02 <@Toprawa> Ok, let me quickly rephrase this
03:17:05 <Tyber> Sure, sure.
03:17:15 <Tyber> But it would make it easier nonetheless.
03:17:29 <@GreenTentacle> I'm fine with limiting this. Some people do take it to extremes. Although I'm not quite sure why Oasis infoboxes need to use such large text.
03:17:35 <@ecks> also, Lewis, that Wedge thing is the greatest thing I've seen
03:17:51 <Boots> I think it will be important to standardize this. For example, one article on a stromtrooper could say *Galactic Empire **501st Legion while another article written by someone else could say *Imperial Military **501st Legion
03:18:07 <@ecks> the top item should always list the top-level affiliation, IMO
03:18:14 <Tommy-Macaroni> I agree
03:18:16 <@exiledjedi> Per ecks
03:18:21 <@GreenTentacle> Indeed
03:18:23 <@Ayrehead02> Definitely
03:18:28 <DarthRuiz30> yup
03:18:28 <Boots> Yes, I agree as well.
03:18:31 <@Supreme_Emperor> Makes sense
03:18:43 <Omicron> nod
03:18:50 <@ecks> but I don't really care if you want to go for GAR or Torrent Company or whatever for the sub-bullet
03:18:53 <@Toprawa> Does this work? http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Zev_Senesca
03:18:54 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Toprawa and Ralltiir/Zev Senesca | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
03:19:01 <Boots> So should the second bullet always list the bottom-level affiliation?
03:19:19 <@Toprawa> I think it should list the two most primary
03:19:34 <Omicron> if we're doing two, top should be most general, bottom should be most specific
03:19:35 <@Toprawa> Things like Imperial Military and Stormtrooper Corps are not important if we know he's in the 501st Legion
03:19:41 <@GreenTentacle> Which would normally be the top and bottom ones.
03:19:48 <@Toprawa> per GT
03:19:54 <@GreenTentacle> You can click links for the bits in between easily enough.
03:19:58 <Lewis> Makes sense
03:20:01 <Boots> Right, so it would be *Galactic Empire **501st Legion.
03:20:08 <Boots> But what if the soldier was in a company or unit?
03:20:10 <@ecks> sounds fine to me
03:20:14 <@Imperators> I'm a bit concerned we may limit ourselves a bit too much with this
03:20:15 <Boots> Would we list the unit instead of 501st?
03:20:18 <@Toprawa> Yes, Boots
03:20:27 <@ecks> I agree with Imperators, kinda
03:20:30 <@exiledjedi> I assume we can still have multiple sub-bullets under *Galactic Empire?
03:20:37 <@Toprawa> Yes, EJ
03:21:10 <Boots> Wait, so we can have more than two sub-bullets?
03:21:13 <DarthRuiz30> so we could have multiple squadrons for a pilot ?
03:21:14 <@Imperators> of course, I completely agree with the aesthetic formatting reasoning, I'm just not sure if setting a hard number would be good
03:21:19 <Boots> I thought we were capping it at two.
03:21:26 <@ecks> Boots, in terms of depth it's capped
03:21:25 <@Toprawa> Boots
03:21:27 <@Toprawa> The depth
03:21:31 <@Toprawa> It can be:
03:21:34 <@Toprawa> *Galactic Empire
03:21:36 <@Toprawa> **ISB*
03:21:40 <@Toprawa> **501st Legion
03:22:10 <Boots> Well if we're doing that people will just list things in the same way as they are now but only use two bullets instead of one
03:22:19 <@ecks> no, not really
03:22:19 <Boots> Then it will just be confusing
03:22:22 <DarthRuiz30> then all good, concerns solved
03:22:26 <@Toprawa> No, because we will stop them
03:22:31 <@ecks> 501st is not in the same command structure as ISB
03:22:34 <@Toprawa> per ecks
03:22:41 <Boots> Right, I was speaking hypthetically.
03:22:45 <Boots> So
03:22:48 <@ecks> but Torrent Company is in the same command structure as 501st, so you can't list both of them
03:22:56 <Boots> *Galactic Empire
03:23:00 <Boots> **Imperial Military
03:23:05 <Boots> ***Stomrtrooper Corps
03:23:10 <Boots> ****501st Legion
03:23:16 <Boots> My fear is that people will do
03:23:18 <@Toprawa> Becomes *Galactic Empire **501st Legion
03:23:20 <Boots> *Galactic Empire
03:23:24 <@Supreme_Emperor> You would essentially list the most relevant ones Boots
03:23:28 <Boots> **Imperial Military
03:23:31 <Boots> **Stormtrooper Corps
03:23:35 <Boots> **501st Legion
03:23:38 <@Toprawa> Maybe they will, Boots. But we will correct them with this policy.
03:23:43 <@ecks> Stormtrooper Corps is part of the Imperial Military
03:23:50 <@ecks> 501st Legion is part of the Imperial Military
03:23:55 <@ecks> can only list one of those
03:24:05 <@Toprawa> Place a little faith in our ability to properly apply things
03:24:07 <@ecks> ISB, however, is not, so you could list it
03:24:11 <Boots> We should specify that the top bullet should be the highest affiliation, and the bottom the lowest
03:24:23 <Omicron> I agree Boots
03:24:29 <@Imperators> okay, this is getting far too restricting imho
03:24:33 <Cwedin> I don't think we should specify that
03:24:35 <@Toprawa> I agree with Imperators
03:24:39 <@ecks> I agree with the top bullet, but I fear the bottom thing might come back to bite us
03:24:43 <@Toprawa> It's meant to be open so we can determine what best needs to be listed
03:24:47 <@Ayrehead02> I agreed it's too restricting
03:24:49 <@Toprawa> per ecks
03:24:55 <@Supreme_Emperor> We can just leave it at two bullets deep, and specify later as needed
03:25:02 <DarthRuiz30> for example currently http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wedge_Antilles has 4 sub.bullets on rebel alliance, would that be allowed?
03:25:03 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Wedge Antilles | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
03:25:11 <@Ayrehead02> What if there's something like Unit 2 within the 501st Legion
03:25:15 <@ecks> like what if we learned CT-1358 is part of fireteam 2, squad 3, platoon 4, torrent company?
03:25:17 <@Toprawa> Yes, Ruiz
03:25:21 <@Toprawa> Assuming those are all in correct order
03:25:24 <@ecks> are we gonna list *Galactic Republic **Fireteam 2?
03:25:27 <@ecks> that's ridiculous imo
03:25:36 <@grunny> yeah, I think it's important not to specify something like the most general and most specific (even if most of the time that's what it ends up being) so that we can use good judgement. "*Galactic Empire **501st Legion" is good, but "*Galactic Empire **Squad Six" probably isn't useful/meaningful for people reading the infobox
03:25:36 <@Ayrehead02> Having *Galactic Empire **Unit 2 is super vague
03:25:45 <@ecks> apply common sense to the sub-bullet
03:25:51 <@Toprawa> per grunny
03:25:54 <@Ayrehead02> Oh me an ecks were making the same point simultaneously
03:25:56 <@Culator> ...
03:25:59 <@Culator> common sense?
03:26:02 <@Culator> HAHAHAHAHAHA
03:26:04 <@ecks> great minds think alike etc
03:26:48 <Boots> So from what I'm taking away, sub-bullets are only to be listed like ** and ** if the individual is in mutliple groups under the same organization that are not a sub-unit of the sub-unit?
03:27:05 <@ecks> basically, yes
03:27:23 <@ecks> so 501st Legion, ISB, and the Imperial Cooking Club would all be acceptable sub-bullets
03:27:33 <@Toprawa> Are there any more questions on this?
03:27:43 <Boots> So about "Unit 2"
03:27:44 <@Culator> NOBODY SPEAK
03:27:49 <Boots> Would we list that or just 501st Legion
03:27:51 <@Toprawa> Boots, it's meant to be left to editor discretion
03:27:55 <@Toprawa> we don't need to figure these specifics out now
03:28:01 <@Toprawa> We can argue about this on nomination pages
03:28:05 <@Toprawa> That's what we do best :P
03:28:11 <Boots> Oh okay. Gotcha!
03:28:25 <@Toprawa> Ok, let's vote
03:28:30 <@Toprawa> ~open
03:28:31 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
03:28:32 <Tommy-Macaroni> ~support
03:28:32 <Cwedin> ~support
03:28:32 <@PurpleTentacle> Tommy-Macaroni: Support vote counted.
03:28:33 <@PurpleTentacle> Cwedin: Support vote counted.
03:28:35 <AV-6R7> ~support
03:28:35 <@PurpleTentacle> AV-6R7: Support vote counted.
03:28:35 <DarthRuiz30> ~support
03:28:35 <@PurpleTentacle> DarthRuiz30: Support vote counted.
03:28:35 <@Toprawa> ~support
03:28:35 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
03:28:37 <@ecks> ~support
03:28:36 <@PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
03:28:36 <@exiledjedi> ~support
03:28:36 <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
03:28:37 <@Culator> ~support
03:28:37 <@PurpleTentacle> Culator: Support vote counted.
03:28:37 <@GreenTentacle> ~support
03:28:37 <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted.
03:28:38 <Boots> ~support
03:28:38 <@PurpleTentacle> Boots: Support vote counted.
03:28:38 <@grunny> ~support
03:28:39 <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
03:28:40 <CorellianPremier> ~support
03:28:40 <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
03:28:43 <Lewis> ~support
03:28:43 <@PurpleTentacle> Lewis: Support vote counted.
03:28:44 <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support
03:28:44 <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
03:28:46 <@Ayrehead02> ~support
03:28:46 <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted.
03:28:52 <@Toprawa> Voting closes in 10 seconds
03:29:00 <@Toprawa> ~close
03:29:00 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
03:29:02 <@Toprawa> ~tally
03:29:02 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 15
03:29:04 <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 15-0
03:29:08 <@Toprawa> Ok, part 2 of this infobox thing
03:29:11 <@Toprawa> Going back to what I was saying
03:29:23 <@Toprawa> This might bore some of you Canon editors, but bear with us
03:29:30 <@Toprawa> This may affect you someday in some similar fashion
03:30:06 <@Toprawa> In Legends articles, we've been very inconsistent as to when to list GrS dates in infoboxes, specifically character birth/death fields
03:30:07 <@Toprawa> Example:
03:30:13* Toprawa has changed the topic to " Wookieepedia, the Space-Based Disagreements FandoWe'This isre nm - http://wookieepedia.com - Channel/site status: Mofference IN PROGRESS - Off-topic chatter: #wookieepedia-social "
03:30:17 <@Toprawa> Oops
03:30:19 <@Toprawa> Ignore that
03:30:20 <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cal_Omas?oldid=7370141
03:30:21 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Cal Omas | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
03:30:28 <@Toprawa> Died
03:30:28 <@Toprawa> 40 ABY (75), Coruscant[2]
03:30:34* ecks has changed the topic to " Wookieepedia, the Space-Based Disagreements Fandom - http://wookieepedia.com - Channel/site status: Mofference IN PROGRESS - Off-topic chatter: #wookieepedia-social "
03:30:38 <@Toprawa> The 75 is the GrS date (it's not linked properly)
03:30:54 <@Toprawa> There's no great advantage to listing that, since most people don't know what it means anyways
03:31:12 <@Toprawa> And worse, it's unsourced and just gives the reviewing bodies more reason to destroy your status article
03:31:24 <@Toprawa> So I'm proposing a system for when to list these GrS dates
03:31:58 <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Zev_Senesca
03:31:59 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Toprawa and Ralltiir/Zev Senesca | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
03:32:03 <@Toprawa> We can fix any redlinks and formatting problems, btw
03:32:14 <@Toprawa> To give an example of this in a non-character article:
03:32:34 <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Subjugation_of_Sinton does good to list it, since the specific month and day are known
03:32:35 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Subjugation of Sinton | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
03:32:46 <@Toprawa> Whereas http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Debacle_on_Ord_Torrenze has no reason to list GrS
03:32:47 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Debacle on Ord Torrenze | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
03:32:58 <@Toprawa> Ok, let's talk
03:33:09 <@ecks> Floor is open since I forgot to close it
03:33:13 <@Supreme_Emperor> lol
03:33:22 <@ecks> OK; do we require both GrS month *and* day to be known?
03:33:21 <@Culator> This is a good, smart, unambiguous rule and there's no reason to argue about it. So let's all argue.
03:33:24 <@Supreme_Emperor> Makes sense though
03:33:33 <@ecks> In your proposed rule, we know both month and day for Luke
03:33:46 <@GreenTentacle> Never been a fan of the GrS years anyway. This makes total sense.
03:34:05 <@Toprawa> ecks, I don't believe there's a single case where a GrS year and day but not month are known
03:34:18 <@ecks> fair enough
03:34:18 <@Toprawa> That was sort of meant to be understood in my policy, apologies for any confusion
03:34:39 <Boots> So, I'm not going to oppose anything in this discussion and this probably deserves its own discussion, but I really think the format should be changed. Putting the GrS date next to the BBY/ABY date I feel gives the wrong impression that the GrS and ABY/BBY calendar systems are the same, which they are not.
03:34:56 <@Toprawa> They are kind of the same
03:35:01 <@ecks> That's why the GrS date links to [[Great ReSynchronization]]
03:35:14 <@Toprawa> They're just different dating systems, but they're equally translatable
03:35:29 <@Toprawa> Every BBY/ABY date has a GrS year, and vice versa
03:35:49 <Boots> Right, of course. I just meant maybe bulleting them
03:36:17 <Boots> So we'd put the GrS date underneath the ABY/BBY dates and write GrS at the end of the 15:4:13
03:36:22 <@Toprawa> My inclination is to try and use as few infobox fields and sub-bullets as possible
03:36:26 <@ecks> I don't think that's necessary imo
03:36:31 <@ecks> especially since the date is linked
03:36:31 <@Toprawa> The longer an infobox, the uglier it looks
03:36:39 <@ecks> so anyone curious what that means can just click the link
03:36:42 <@GreenTentacle> I think it's fine on the same line.
03:37:11 <@Toprawa> And it's distinguished by the auto-parentheses in {{C}}
03:37:23 <@Supreme_Emperor> Same line is totally fine
03:37:25 <@Toprawa> And the smaller text
03:37:41 <Boots> Okay, again I'm not complaining or anything. Its just an observation I thought would look better. It might come in handy for canon since from what I can tell there's going to be a "Galactic Standard Time" and some new calendar systems that are different than legends.
03:38:02 <@ecks> this is a Legends-only amendment though
03:38:01 <@Imperators> Tope, what exactly would be wrong with the Sinton article if its GrS happened to only have the year known?
03:38:04 <@Toprawa> We can evaluate Canon scenarios when we come to them
03:38:07 <@ecks> we can decide on Canon later
03:38:17 <Boots> Also some canon articles are listing the Lothal Years, which I think look ugly.
03:38:20 <Boots> Of course.
03:38:22 <@Toprawa> It's not wrong, it's just unnecessary work
03:38:27-!- Omicron (~Omicron@wookieepedia/Omicron) has quit (Quit: I am out of here!)
03:38:31 <@Toprawa> GrS dates are a bitch and a half to reference
03:38:42 <@ecks> Including just the GrS year doesn't help the reader at all
03:38:43 <@Toprawa> Let's save ourselves the unnecessary effort
03:38:48 <@ecks> it's as specific as the BBY/ABY year
03:38:58 <@ecks> whereas months and days pinpoint the event further
03:39:26 <@Toprawa> ^
03:39:30 <@Imperators> okay, I think ecks kind of answered my question
03:39:37 <@ecks> eckscellent
03:39:43 <@Toprawa> Anything else?
03:39:48 <@ecks> let's vote
03:39:52 <@Toprawa> ~open
03:39:52 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
03:39:55 <Tommy-Macaroni> ~support
03:39:57 <@ecks> ~support
03:39:55 <@PurpleTentacle> Tommy-Macaroni: Support vote counted.
03:39:56 <@PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
03:39:57 <@grunny> ~support
03:39:57 <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
03:39:57 <@Ayrehead02> ~support
03:39:57 <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted.
03:39:58 <@exiledjedi> ~support
03:39:58 <@GreenTentacle> ~support
03:39:58 <@Toprawa> ~support
03:39:58 <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
03:39:58 <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted.
03:39:58 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
03:39:59 <Lewis> ~support
03:39:59 <@PurpleTentacle> Lewis: Support vote counted.
03:40:00 <CorellianPremier> ~support
03:40:00 <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
03:40:01 <Boots> ~support
03:40:01 <@PurpleTentacle> Boots: Support vote counted.
03:40:01 <DarthRuiz30> ~support
03:40:02 <@PurpleTentacle> DarthRuiz30: Support vote counted.
03:40:07 <@Imperators> ~support
03:40:07 <@PurpleTentacle> Imperators: Support vote counted.
03:40:08 <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support
03:40:08 <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
03:40:09 <AV-6R7> ~support
03:40:09 <@PurpleTentacle> AV-6R7: Support vote counted.
03:40:09 <@Culator> ~support
03:40:09 <@PurpleTentacle> Culator: Support vote counted.
03:40:24 <@Toprawa> Closing vote in 10 seconds
03:40:33 <@Toprawa> ~close
03:40:33 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
03:40:35 <@Toprawa> ~tally
03:40:35 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 15
03:40:38 <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 15-0
03:40:40 <@Toprawa> MOVING ON
03:40:50 <@Toprawa> JANGFETT
03:40:51 <@Toprawa> ISN'T HERE
03:40:56 <@Toprawa> But we will propose his proposal NONETHELESS
03:41:03 <@Toprawa> ecks, the shades
03:41:06* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m]
03:41:10 <@ecks> LIAM
03:41:11 <@Toprawa> XD
03:41:20 <@Toprawa> WP:LG
03:41:22 <@Toprawa> "I've been noticing a careless use of the "__NOTOC__" tag in plenty of CAs because we don't have an official guideline for it. Some place the tag at the very top of the article, at the bottom, or beside the actual infobox. I propose we set a standard for the tag following this Mofference by including a guideline for it in WP:LG. By following the layout guide, I believe the tag should be placed under the infobox, where the table of
03:41:22 <@Toprawa> contents reside.
03:41:22 <@Toprawa> "
03:41:26 <@Toprawa> Love & kisses, JangFett
03:41:29 <@Toprawa> Floor
03:41:30* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m]
03:41:40 <@ecks> do we even have a policy on when to use NOTOC in the first place?
03:41:49 <@Supreme_Emperor> Totally logical
03:41:52 <@Imperators> only precedent
03:41:55 <@ecks> the TOC doesn't reside under the infobox either
03:41:55 <@exiledjedi> Doesn't __NOTOC__ mess up the formatting unless it is in a specific place?
03:41:57 <@ecks> it resides under the intro
03:42:01 <@ecks> it shouldn't
03:42:04 <Boots> What is NOTOC anyway? I keep seeing it in random articles and I don't know what to do with it.
03:42:11 <Lewis> No idea what it even is
03:42:14 <@ecks> it prevents the table of contens from showing up
03:42:16 <@exiledjedi> It hides the table of contents.
03:42:20 <Boots> Ah
03:42:21 <@Supreme_Emperor> It prevents a table of contents from generating
03:42:24 <@ecks> it's nice when the article only contains BTS, Appearances, Sources etc
03:42:32 <@ecks> which is how it's being used right now
03:42:48 <AV-6R7> NOTableOfContents
03:42:50 <Boots> So real-world articles, basically.
03:42:59 <@ecks> no, CAs mostly
03:43:00 <@exiledjedi> CAs mostly.
03:43:01 <Lewis> Makes sense
03:43:06 <@ecks> if you have four == == headers, a TOC is generated
03:43:11 <Boots> Hmm... Alright.
03:43:16 <@ecks> in most CAs, that's Bts, apps, sources, notes and references
03:43:26 <Cwedin> Ex: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Book_of_Hondo
03:43:28 <@ecks> but I honestly think we need a NOTOC policy
03:43:27 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Book of Hondo | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
03:43:37 <@ecks> when to use it, in particular
03:43:36 <@Ayrehead02> I've always put NOTOC directly below the eras template
03:43:44 <@ecks> I've been removing it from articles with IU sections
03:44:08 <@exiledjedi> I thought that adding __NOTOC__ anywhere except above the infobox caused a blank line to get added.
03:44:16 <AV-6R7> I always put it under {{Eras}}
03:44:18 <@Ayrehead02> And I think EJ's right, I swear I remember it messing up layout on something
03:44:32 <DarthRuiz30> yeah I remember something like that
03:44:33 <AV-6R7> Adds and extra space, I think
03:44:37 <@ecks> very possible
03:45:02 <@Toprawa> Ok
03:45:12 <@Toprawa> We're tabling NOTOC for a larger discussion
03:45:16 <@Toprawa> Recommended to take to the SH
03:45:25 <@Ayrehead02> Cool
03:45:27 <@Toprawa> There's no clear proposal here due to the large level of disagreement
03:45:29 <@Toprawa> MOVING ON
03:45:37 <@Toprawa> TOPRAWA
03:45:39* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m]
03:46:14 <@Toprawa> I am proposing modifying our activity requirements for administrators.
03:46:24* @ecks trembles
03:46:28 <@Toprawa> Currently, admins need to make at least 50 mainspace edits in any six-month span to maintain their sysops
03:46:44 <@Toprawa> Everyone pretty much agreed at the time we passed that number that 50 was pathetically small
03:47:01 <@Toprawa> But it was something we all kind of settled on because there were many people once upon a time who were ardently against any activity requirements
03:47:16 <@Toprawa> Perhaps not coincidentally, those people are no longer around
03:47:24 <@Toprawa> I am proposing the following:
03:47:37 <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Zev_Senesca
03:47:39 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Toprawa and Ralltiir/Zev Senesca | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
03:47:51 <@Toprawa> Note, this will follow this http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:A#Extended_leaves_of_absence
03:47:52 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Wookieepedia:Administrators | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
03:48:01 <@Toprawa> 250 and 500 may seem like really large numbers, but they're not
03:48:21 <@Toprawa> In a six-month span, that's approximately 1.4 edits per day for admins and 2.8 edits per day for bureaucrats
03:48:43 <@Toprawa> If you can't average slightly less than 1.5 edits per day being an admin, your priorities are in the wrong place
03:49:08 <@Toprawa> Moreover, our BCs should be among the most active and influential members of our community
03:49:13 <@Toprawa> That's why they have a higher figure
03:49:22 <@Toprawa> And again, just under 3 edits per day is like nothing
03:49:44 <@Toprawa> We three BCs, and any future members of our ranks, should be able to meet this threshold without problem
03:49:57 <@Toprawa> If not, we need to re-evaluate ourselves
03:50:02 <@Toprawa> Let's talk
03:50:03* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m]
03:50:05 <@Supreme_Emperor> 250 and 500 are not huge numbers in all honesty, especially considering our regularly active users hit well over 100 edits per week, on average
03:50:15 <@ecks> Lewis hits 100 every 30 minutes
03:50:16 <@Supreme_Emperor> In some cases well over 300, 400 or 500
03:50:18 <@Imperators> :D
03:50:27 <@Ayrehead02> Given that Lewisr makes 250 edits per minute on average I don't see why the rest of us can't up our game
03:50:31 <@Culator> I assume there's going to be a grace period on this, and that we're not going to make it retroactive in order to have our own little Night of the Long Knives for admins.
03:50:33 <@Supreme_Emperor> Also looking at it from a numbers standpoint, regularly active users are easily hitting that many edits in a single week, let alone 6 months
03:50:40 <@ecks> I argue Wookieepedia:, Template: and MediaWiki: edits should count towards the total
03:50:40 <@grunny> looks good, I particularly like the clarity on "prior explanation of inactivity" as that was always quite vague
03:50:44 <@Supreme_Emperor> Even looking at it from a different point of view, admins need to know what's going on. 50 edits in 6 months means they really aren't paying attention
03:50:51 <@Toprawa> Culator, yes, no one is going to cut off any heads tomorrow
03:51:07 <@Supreme_Emperor> I mean most nights when I backtrack through the RC's I can easily find one or two nonsense edits and a whole host of other minor issues
03:51:23 <Boots> So, my only fear is that the numbers of admins and bureaucrats are so low that raising the requirements will reduce the number even further.
03:51:35 <@ecks> is losing inactive admins really a loss?
03:51:38 <@Supreme_Emperor> If it does, we replace them with those who edit regularly
03:51:49 <DarthRuiz30> also most admins are active, I think
03:51:56 <@Toprawa> Our practice for admins has always been to nominate new ones when the number of admins is considered insufficient
03:51:56 <@Supreme_Emperor> An admin/BC needs to be aware of what is happening on the site regularly
03:52:02 <@Toprawa> If we lose admins, we nominate new ones
03:52:08 <@Toprawa> It's really that simple
03:52:14 <@Toprawa> At present, we have three admins who don't meet this figure
03:52:21 <@Toprawa> I'm not calling out any names
03:52:32 <@Toprawa> But I think they know who they are
03:52:34 <@Culator> <--
03:52:38 <@ecks> ok, since everyone missed it... <@ecks> I argue Wookieepedia:, Template: and MediaWiki: edits should count towards the total
03:52:39 <@Toprawa> And if they want to be admins, I think they can pick it up
03:52:43 <@Toprawa> want to remain admins*
03:53:02 <@grunny> ecks: I'd consider those "use of admin tools" rather than counting towards mainspace edits
03:53:13 <@grunny> at least for MW edits
03:53:44 <@ecks> fair enough, but just like we amended WP:RFA to be "major wiki contribution" instead of "major article contribution", I think the same goes here
03:53:53 <@ecks> mainspace isn't everything
03:54:01 <Boots> Okay, well if all the admins are in agreement I won't challenge the proposal. I just don't want to push something through that will negatively affect users.
03:54:15 <@ecks> my edits are something like 1/3 mainspace; if I were a bureaucrat, I'd need 1500 edits every six months, assuming my normal editing pattern
03:54:33 <@Supreme_Emperor> I can guarantee it wouldn't Boots
03:54:46 <DarthRuiz30> I don't think its negative, if they are not active how are they useful
03:54:53 <@Toprawa> Sorry, ecks, I'm confused
03:55:03 <@Toprawa> "if I were a bureaucrat, I'd need 1500 edits every six months, assuming my normal editing pattern"
03:55:09 <@Toprawa> How do you figure 1500?
03:55:30 <@ecks> because only 33% of my edits are mainspace. if I make 1,500 edits right now, around 500 of those would be mainspace, assuming the same editing pattern
03:55:35 <@Supreme_Emperor> He means because a chunk of his edits are Wookieepedia, Template and Mediawiki edits
03:55:59 <@ecks> yeah, I'm not much of a writer and I do a lot of technical tweaking and I don't think that's less valuable than mainspace editing
03:56:18 <@Supreme_Emperor> I would agree with that
03:56:30 <Boots> I agree.
03:56:53 <@Toprawa> I mean, not to pick on you, ecks, but maybe that's not a bad thing
03:57:03 <@Toprawa> If you were to be a BC, maybe you should be editing more mainspace
03:57:14 <@ecks> should I?
03:57:19 <@grunny> should we specify the grace period to get up to the threshold for existing admins? Just so it's not arbitrarily applied later
03:57:29 <@Toprawa> I would argue in general that doing so would mean being more involved with the community than you otherwise would be
03:57:31 <@ecks> 6 months for the grace period
03:57:45 <@Toprawa> I say make it 6 months from tonight
03:58:08 <@Culator> I actually have to agree with ecks on this. Keeping the wiki running is as important as keeping the community running.
03:58:39 <Boots> Everyone has their specialties. We shouldn't say that one form of wiki editing is more valuable and counted than the other.
03:58:50 <@Toprawa> Well, it kind of is
03:58:54 <@Toprawa> Not that ecks doesn't have a point
03:59:01 <@Toprawa> But not everything in Wookieepedia: is vital
03:59:03 <@ecks> if anything, bureaucrats should have a required amount of Forum: and Wookieepedia: edits
03:59:24 <@grunny> OK, sounds good, so, basically, for the record, "As of March 4, 2018, admins are required to maintain <insert summary of the policy here> in any six month span going forward." Which also clarifies Culator's point of making sure it's not retroactive
04:00:48 <@grunny> I think the policy is good since it ensures admins are focused on the main aims of the wiki, which is encyclopedic content, but we could consider expanding it a little to include other forms of contribution
04:00:49 <Boots> "As of March 4, 2018, admins are required to maintain <insert summary of the policy here> in any six month span. A temporary grace period of six months from the date of this policy's passing on March 4, 2018, will be provided."
04:01:14 <@grunny> I don't think we need to specify the grace period as long as we say from this date forward
04:01:25 <@grunny> it does the same thing
04:01:26 <Boots> Legal limbo.
04:01:35 <@Ayrehead02> Wait so this couldn't be implemented for twelve months?
04:01:45 <@grunny> 6 months
04:02:05 <@Ayrehead02> I thought that was the grace period?
04:02:21 <@grunny> if six months from today you don't have 250/500 mainspace edits, you're considered in breach
04:02:30 <Boots> This is why I wanted to add the legal limbo.
04:02:36 <@Toprawa> Ok, people
04:02:41 <Boots> More specific and clear.
04:02:43 <@Toprawa> Revised proposal on the numbers:
04:03:12 <@Toprawa> (And please don't interrupt for a moment)
04:03:18* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m]
04:03:56 <@Toprawa> *Admins and BCs must make 250 mainspace edits in any six-month span
04:04:38 <@Toprawa> *BCs must make 500 edits total, including Wookieepedia: Template: and MediaWiki:
04:04:43 <@Toprawa> Sorry for the delay
04:04:46 <@Toprawa> Is that right, ecks?
04:04:51 <@ecks> correct
04:04:53* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m]
04:04:54 <@Toprawa> Note:
04:05:00 <@Toprawa> Those are all non-deleted edits
04:05:03 <@Toprawa> Deleted edits don't count
04:05:15 <@Toprawa> Talk :P
04:05:18 <@Supreme_Emperor> Yes
04:05:20 <Boots> Hold on, let me write this up.
04:05:23 <@grunny> sounds good
04:05:35 <@ecks> this I can get behind
04:06:02 <DarthRuiz30> if admins and BCs agree then we're good
04:06:08 <@ecks> any objections or can we put it to a vote?
04:06:11 <@Toprawa> Let's vote
04:06:13 <@Toprawa> ~open
04:06:13 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
04:06:17 <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support
04:06:17 <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
04:06:18 <CorellianPremier> ~support
04:06:18 <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
04:06:19 <@ecks> ~support
04:06:18 <@PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
04:06:18 <@Toprawa> ~support
04:06:19 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
04:06:19 <@exiledjedi> ~support
04:06:19 <Lewis> ~support
04:06:19 <@Ayrehead02> Wait Boots just asked
04:06:19 <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
04:06:19 <@PurpleTentacle> Lewis: Support vote counted.
04:06:19 <@Culator> ~support
04:06:19 <@PurpleTentacle> Culator: Support vote counted.
04:06:21 <AV-6R7> ~support
04:06:21 <@PurpleTentacle> AV-6R7: Support vote counted.
04:06:23 <@grunny> ~support
04:06:23 <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
04:06:24 <Cwedin> ~support
04:06:24 <@PurpleTentacle> Cwedin: Support vote counted.
04:06:25 <DarthRuiz30> ~support
04:06:25 <@PurpleTentacle> DarthRuiz30: Support vote counted.
04:06:29 <@Ayrehead02> ~support
04:06:29 <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted.
04:06:30 <Boots> ~support
04:06:30 <@PurpleTentacle> Boots: Support vote counted.
04:06:31 <Tommy-Macaroni> ~support
04:06:31 <@PurpleTentacle> Tommy-Macaroni: Support vote counted.
04:06:33 <@Imperators> ~support
04:06:33 <@PurpleTentacle> Imperators: Support vote counted.
04:06:43 <@Toprawa> Closing in 10 seconds
04:06:50 <@Toprawa> ~close
04:06:51 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
04:06:52 <@Toprawa> ~tally
04:06:52 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 15
04:06:54 <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 15-0
04:06:56 <@grunny> and once again for the minutes, this is from this date onwards (six month spans prior to this date were under the old policy), with a six month grace period for anyone currently not active enough
04:07:02 <@Toprawa> Yes
04:07:04 <@Toprawa> Thanks, grunny
04:07:13 <@Toprawa> MOVING ON
04:07:17* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m]
04:07:18 <@Toprawa> ECKS
04:07:29 <@ecks> deletion policy rewrite
04:07:37 <@ecks> current: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:DP
04:07:37 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Wookieepedia:Deletion policy | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
04:07:42 <@ecks> Proposed: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Xd1358/test4
04:07:42 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Xd1358/test4 | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
04:07:47 <@ecks> Diff: http://starwars.wikia.com/index.php?title=User%3AXd1358%2Ftest4&diff=7459029&oldid=7427307
04:07:47 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Xd1358/test4 | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
04:07:54 <@ecks> thanks to Toprawa for the help on this one
04:08:13 <@ecks> basically, the current policy is outdated and this one formalizes what we're doing already
04:08:14* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m]
04:08:17 <@ecks> floor is open
04:08:20 <@Supreme_Emperor> Yes
04:08:26 <@Toprawa> It's just kind of streamlining everything
04:08:29 <@Imperators> aw, crap, this is actually important stuff.
04:08:36 <@Toprawa> Our current Deletion policy page is 2006 garbage
04:09:15 <@Toprawa> The current policy actually technically forbids us from CSDing anything
04:09:18 <@Toprawa> Which is insane
04:09:23 <DarthRuiz30> looks pretty good
04:09:26 <@Toprawa> It says everything has to be put up for a vote
04:09:34 <@Toprawa> No one's got time for that
04:09:53 <@ecks> every admin thus far has been WP:AA'ing the shit out of nonsense pages
04:10:08 <@Culator> And that's... bad?
04:10:17 <@Toprawa> No, that's policy now :P
04:10:20 <@Toprawa> Or will be, hopefully :P
04:10:26 <@ecks> is "thus far" even a phrase? It's 4:10 am and my English is getting poorer by the minute
04:10:35 <@Supreme_Emperor> It is
04:10:36 <@Toprawa> Yes :P
04:10:49 <@Toprawa> If anyone needs a few minutes to read through the page, please say so
04:10:59 <CorellianPremier> No it looks good
04:11:19 <Boots> Looks good to me.
04:11:20 <Lewis> Happy with it
04:11:21 <@Imperators> finally, everything under Notability policy, explicitly
04:11:34 <Tommy-Macaroni> All good!
04:11:42 <@ecks> \o/
04:11:44 <@exiledjedi> Looks good to me.
04:11:45 <@Ayrehead02> No issues here
04:11:48 <@grunny> looks good
04:11:51 <@Toprawa> Let's vote
04:11:53 <@Toprawa> ~open
04:11:53 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
04:11:54 <Tommy-Macaroni> ~support
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04:12:17 <@Toprawa> Voting closes in 10 seconds
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04:12:31 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
04:12:33 <@Toprawa> ~tally
04:12:33 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 15
04:12:36 <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 15-0
04:12:37 <@Toprawa> MOVING ON
04:12:38 <@Toprawa> LAST ONE
04:12:40 <@Toprawa> TOPRAWA
04:12:44* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m]
04:13:08<@Toprawa> We've been TCing merchandise articles for a long time
04:13:15<@Toprawa> And moving them to the Star Wars Merchandise Wiki
04:13:24<@Toprawa> It's about time we add something to the Notability policy for merchandise
04:13:44<@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Zev_Senesca
04:13:45<@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Toprawa and Ralltiir/Zev Senesca | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
04:14:00<@Toprawa> This basically supplements this http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Merchandise
04:14:01<@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Template:Merchandise | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
04:14:18<@Toprawa> We have this template calling out merchandise, but there's no real resolution for articles that get this tag
04:14:29<@Toprawa> Now we can tag them with {{Verify}} or {{Delete}}
04:14:32<@Toprawa> Let's talk
04:14:36* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m]
04:14:48 <@Ayrehead02> Burn all the merch to the ground
04:14:48 <CorellianPremier> So things like http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Aratech_Military_Speeder_Bike_Prototype
04:14:49 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Aratech Military Speeder Bike Prototype | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
04:14:54 <CorellianPremier> would still be considered IU?
04:14:55 <@Imperators> dat Star Wars Chess tho
04:15:00 <@Toprawa> Yes, those are IU, CP
04:15:03 <@Toprawa> Those have canonical value
04:15:10 <@Toprawa> Leland Chee said Legends toys are IU
04:15:14 <@Toprawa> I don't know what the deal is with Canon
04:15:22 <Boots> Half-and-half.
04:15:54 <Boots> Mickey Mouse Jedi Action Figure is obviously not canon, for example.
04:16:07 <@Toprawa> Yes, but they have non-canon canonical value, if that makes sense
04:16:07 <DarthRuiz30> So this could be tagged with Delete? http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Uncle_Milton:_Star_Wars_Science_%E2%80%93_Jabba_Slime_Lab
04:16:08 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Uncle Milton: Star Wars Science – Jabba Slime Lab | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com)
04:16:10 <@Ayrehead02> I'm sure that one day it'll come up in a status article and we'll all fight over it, but at the moment we don't need to think about it
04:16:11 <@Toprawa> Mickey isn't merchandise
04:16:19 <@Toprawa> Yes, Ruiz
04:16:26 <@Toprawa> Those articles are actually what inspired this proposal
04:16:34 <Lewis> The mouse owns it all
04:16:35 <DarthRuiz30> nice, then all good
04:16:42 <Boots> My question though
04:16:51 <Boots> Why did we delete the Family Guy Blue Harvest article?
04:17:00 <Boots> Was that considered merchandise or what?
04:17:07 <@Toprawa> That's not really germane to this discussion
04:17:13 <@Toprawa> That has more to do with Notability of fan projects
04:17:19 <Boots> Ah, okay.
04:17:20 <@Ayrehead02> Please Boots, us poor Europeans need to sleep
04:17:32 <@Toprawa> Merchandise is like... Star Wars Beanie Babies
04:17:33 <Boots> Haha, sorry!
04:17:46 <@Toprawa> Ok, let's vote
04:17:51 <@Toprawa> Some people are on like 4 AM
04:17:52 <@Toprawa> ~open
04:17:52 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
04:17:54 <CorellianPremier> ~support
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04:17:55 <@exiledjedi> ~support
04:17:55 <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
04:17:55 <Tommy-Macaroni> ~support
04:17:55 <DarthRuiz30> ~support
04:17:56 <@PurpleTentacle> DarthRuiz30: Support vote counted.
04:17:56 <@PurpleTentacle> Tommy-Macaroni: Support vote counted.
04:17:56 <@Toprawa> ~support
04:17:56 <@Ayrehead02> ~support
04:17:56 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
04:17:56 <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted.
04:17:57 <@grunny> ~support
04:17:57 <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
04:17:58 <Lewis> ~support
04:17:58 <@PurpleTentacle> Lewis: Support vote counted.
04:18:00 <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support
04:18:00 <@Culator> ~support
04:18:00 <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
04:18:00 <@PurpleTentacle> Culator: Support vote counted.
04:18:02 <@Imperators> ~support
04:18:02 <@PurpleTentacle> Imperators: Support vote counted.
04:18:03 <Cwedin> ~support
04:18:03 <@PurpleTentacle> Cwedin: Support vote counted.
04:18:09 <Boots> ~support
04:18:09 <@PurpleTentacle> Boots: Support vote counted.
04:18:15 <@Toprawa> Voting closes in 10 seconds
04:18:16 <AV-6R7> ~support
04:18:16 <@PurpleTentacle> AV-6R7: Support vote counted.
04:18:27 <@Toprawa> ~close
04:18:27 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
04:18:30 <@Toprawa> ~tally
04:18:30 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 14
04:18:33 <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 14-0
04:18:34 <@Toprawa> That's it
04:18:36 <@Toprawa> Mofference is over
04:18:43 <@Toprawa> Thank you to everyone who showed up