Wookieepedia:Mofferences/Log/2015 May 17

00:07:57 <IFYLOFD> I BID YOU ALL DARK GREETINGS!
00:08:05 <Riffsyphon1024> Yay.
00:08:08 <IFYLOFD> Welcome to the 23rd Mofference.
00:08:22 <Culator|Away> TEN GODDAMN YEARS
00:08:22 <Cade> Admins, unless you're Floyd or he's said you can talk, please don't say anything.
00:08:32 <SimToprawa> Don't make us kick you
00:08:32 <Cade> That's the point of the muting.
00:08:33 <IFYLOFD> We've got a nice long agenda before us, so let's get cracking
00:08:59 <IFYLOFD> MJ has the first one, but his item is pretty self-explanatory so we can discuss/vote on it anyway
00:09:19 <IFYLOFD> All off-topic traffic can go to #wookieepedia-social, as always
00:09:30 <IFYLOFD> Rename Wookieepedia:Single-issue voters to Wookieepedia:Voting eligibility policy. The policy has evolved over the years from its original, single, simple requirement designed to ensure that people weren't here exclusively to vote on something, to what is now a collection of half a dozen rules, most of which are aimed more at requiring that anyone voting on something be a currently active...
00:09:31 <IFYLOFD> ...member of the community. It's time for the title of the page to reflect that evolution. Shortcuts are up for discussion, but I suggest deprecating WP:SIV and instituting WP:VOTE and/or WP:VEP as the new shortcut(s). —MJ— Holocomm 06:09, May 6, 2015 (UTC)
00:10:24 <IFYLOFD> The floor is open for discussion
00:10:28 <IFYLOFD> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Mofferences
00:10:33 <away> I'm fine wiht this
00:10:45 <Riffsyphon1024> I support WP:VOTE, easier to remember.
00:10:47 <SimToprawa> You mean we have a real voting policy now?
00:10:49 <Cade> So this is just a vote on renaming it?
00:10:50 <SimToprawa> We're a real boy!
00:10:52 <IFYLOFD> Yup
00:10:58 <Supreme_Emperor> I'm good with this
00:11:09 <MasterFred> Yep, sounds good to me.
00:11:10 <Culator|Away> YA GOTTA HAVE VEP
00:11:11 <Culator|Away> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhUsqGG9g0A
00:11:12 <Zuko|afk> i'm fine with it
00:11:15 <Brandon_Rhea> Works for me.
00:11:20 <ProfessorTofty> I really don't see any reason not to do it.
00:11:50 <IFYLOFD> I guess the only question is where we want the new shortcut to be
00:11:51 <Riffsyphon1024> The benefit to VEP, even as an acronym?
00:11:52 <Trip391> WP:VOTE
00:12:03 <SimToprawa> WP:VEP is dumb
00:12:08 <Riffsyphon1024> WP:VOTE as stated above
00:12:12 <exiledjedi> WP:VOTE
00:12:14 <Cade> WP:VOTE, I'd say
00:12:14 <Supreme_Emperor> VOTE sounds so much better
00:12:18 <ProfessorTofty> WP:VOTE definitely seems clear and to the point.
00:12:18 <MasterFred> VOTE is much better.
00:12:26 <SirCavalier> Agreed
00:12:29 <Brandon_Rhea> Agreed.
00:12:29 <Culator|Away> We can have both.
00:12:31 <IFYLOFD> VOTE is good
00:12:31 <Zuko> agreed
00:12:34 <Cade> Per Culator
00:12:40 <MasterFred> True.
00:12:41 <Culator|Away> One can be an invisible redirect.
00:12:51 <Culator|Away> VOTE can go in the cute little box.
00:12:54 <Riffsyphon1024> So VEP redirects to VOTE
00:12:56 <Brandon_Rhea> I don't understand what VEP stands for. What is that?
00:13:00 <Brandon_Rhea> Oh
00:13:02 <Brandon_Rhea> nvm
00:13:03 <Brandon_Rhea> I see it now
00:13:04 <IFYLOFD> Voting Eligibility Policy
00:13:06 <Cade> Voting Eligibilty Policy, AFAIK
00:13:09 <Cade> dammit floy
00:13:12 <Cade> flerd
00:13:17 <JorrelFraajic> I like WP:VOTE better.
00:13:27 <Riffsyphon1024> I understand that it's an acronym, but it doesn't stand out like VOTE
00:13:34 <Supreme_Emperor> Per Culator
00:13:36 <Cade> Well, they're redirects, so we can have both. Let's vote
00:13:43 <IFYLOFD> Yes
00:13:51 <IFYLOFD> So vote in favor of renaming the policy
00:13:57 <Riffsyphon1024> #vote yes
00:13:59 <Culator|Away> It's a quirk of my brain that it's easier to remember because the power company here was called VEPCO for half my life.
00:14:01 <Cade> ^_^
00:14:18 <IFYLOFD> #startvote Should we rename WP:SIV to Wookieepedia:Voting eligibility policy? Yes, No, Abstain
00:14:18 <Nuku-Nuku> Begin voting on: Should we rename WP:SIV to Wookieepedia:Voting eligibility policy? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain.
00:14:18 <Nuku-Nuku> Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
00:14:21 <Riffsyphon1024> #vote yes
00:14:24 <Cade> #vote Yes
00:14:25 <Ayrehead02> #vote yes
00:14:25 <IFYLOFD> #vote Yes
00:14:26 <ProfessorTofty> #vote yes
00:14:26 <exiledjedi> #vote yes
00:14:26 <Zuko> #vote yes
00:14:26 <SirCavalier> #vote yes
00:14:26 <SimToprawa> #vote Yes
00:14:26 <JorrelFraajic> #vote Yes
00:14:27 <Trip391> #vote yes
00:14:27 <Brandon_Rhea> #vote Yes
00:14:28 <grunny> #vote yes
00:14:28 <Supreme_Emperor> #vote yes
00:14:29 <dogma> #vote yes
00:14:31 <Culator|Away> #vote yes
00:14:32 <CorellianPremier> #vote yes because
00:14:32 <MasterFred> #vote yes
00:14:32 <Nuku-Nuku> CorellianPremier: yes because is not a valid option. Valid options are Yes, No, Abstain.
00:14:37 <CorellianPremier> #vote yes
00:14:56 <IFYLOFD> Anyone else?
00:15:01 <IFYLOFD> No?
00:15:05 <IFYLOFD> #endvote
00:15:05 <Nuku-Nuku> Voted on "Should we rename WP:SIV to Wookieepedia:Voting eligibility policy?" Results are
00:15:05 <Nuku-Nuku> Yes (18): CorellianPremier, Culator|Away, Ayrehead02, Zuko, SirCavalier, MasterFred, grunny, SimToprawa, ProfessorTofty, Supreme_Emperor, Riffsyphon1024, IFYLOFD, dogma, exiledjedi, Cade, Brandon_Rhea, JorrelFraajic, Trip391
00:15:38 <IFYLOFD> OK, that's settled
00:15:53 <IFYLOFD> WP:SIV is renamed to Wookieepedia:Voting eligibility policy
00:16:04 <IFYLOFD> Next up
00:16:06 <IFYLOFD> Toprawa has the floor
00:16:23 <SimToprawa> Ok, this one might be a bit involved, so bear with me. I'll keep it as simple as I can.
00:16:40 <SimToprawa> Wookieepedia has entered into a new age of public notability and scrutiny.
00:17:05 <SimToprawa> For those unaware, we're featured in some major media outlet almost weekly nowadays
00:17:26 <SimToprawa> Brandon can talk more about this, but a Wikia exec just did a FOX Business interview talking about Wookieepedia
00:17:47 <SimToprawa> The Star Wars world looks to us as the (un)official keepers of canon
00:17:59 <SimToprawa> We are the voice of authority where Lucasfilm decides not to speak.
00:18:10 <SimToprawa> It is imperative that the face we present to the world is controlled and professional.
00:18:34 <SimToprawa> The April Fools Day nonsense is a glaring example of what happens when we it's not.
00:18:40 <SimToprawa> when it's not*
00:19:02 <SimToprawa> To that end, I am proposing that we designate official Wookieepedia Spokespeople
00:19:35 <SimToprawa> These select individuals will have community-sanctioned authority to speak publicly on Wookieepedia's behalf without the need to go through a CT, etc., each time something comes up.
00:19:50 <SimToprawa> This can be anything from social media to newspaper interviews.
00:20:06 <SimToprawa> These sorts of media opportunities happen with more and more regularity.
00:20:21 <SimToprawa> So these are the nuts and bolts of my proposal:
00:20:34 <SimToprawa> I propose the following people be designated Wookieepedia Spokespeople:
00:20:59 <SimToprawa> Cavalier One, Xd1358, Ifindyourlackoffaithdisturbing, Brandon Rhea, and myself.
00:21:02 <SimToprawa> Why us?
00:21:17 <SimToprawa> Because we run the social media outlets and have the most experience in dealing with Wookieepedia public relations.
00:21:24 <SimToprawa> We're the Wookieepedia PR team in the absence of a Wookieepedia PR team.
00:21:40 <SimToprawa> Now, this doesn't mean that other people can't talk on Wookieepedia's behalf
00:21:53 <SimToprawa> But non-PR people should go through some measure of community approval before giving an interview, etc.
00:22:02 <SimToprawa> If they don't, we won't be happy.
00:22:12 <SimToprawa> I *do not* intend this to be a new user group or anything like that.
00:22:26 <SimToprawa> We don't need to designate special rights or make a new bureaucratic level.
00:22:44 <SimToprawa> If any of these PR people want to step down at any time, they will simply make a general announcement someplace, and it will be noted.
00:22:57 <SimToprawa> The administration/community will keep a private account of who our spokespeople are.
00:23:28 <SimToprawa> I think that's it. Before we begin, I think I would recommend letting Brandon say anything he might have to say, since he has more knowledge on the Wikia side of this.
00:23:44 <IFYLOFD> OK, Brandon, you have the floor if you want it
00:24:14 <Brandon_Rhea> Sure.
00:24:51 <Brandon_Rhea> Basically I think this is a good idea and we defer to the community/admins on who should speak for the community anyway. So this is good. If there's ever a case where we wanted someone specific then we'd likely run it by the admin team. I always contact the admin email for most things like this anyway.
00:25:05 <Brandon_Rhea> Other than that, then just to clarify, I'd just say that the Fox interview had to be re-scheduled because Fox was covering the Philadelphia train derailment. So our COO /will/ be doing an interview about the business of Star Wars fandom, including Wookieepedia, but the date is TBD.
00:25:17 <Brandon_Rhea> Beyond that I think Tope covered it well and I have nothing further to add.
00:25:21 <IFYLOFD> OK
00:25:26 <IFYLOFD> The floor is open for discussion
00:25:40 <Hands> #vote yes
00:25:43 <Cade> ^_^
00:25:45 <JorrelFraajic> You're early :P
00:25:47 <IFYLOFD> :|
00:25:56 <Supreme_Emperor> This is a great idea.
00:25:59 <MasterFred> Tope: Will a page be created for this?
00:26:03 <Ayrehead02> Sounds good to me
00:26:08 <SimToprawa> No
00:26:18 <MasterFred> Ok. That answers my second question.
00:26:19 <SimToprawa> Like I said, I don't want to draw public attention to this like it's another user tier
00:26:30 <CorellianPremier> How often do you see this team putting something out?
00:26:36 <Brandon_Rhea> I think there should be some sort of general media page about how to contact Wookieepedia but it shouldn't list names. I'd be more concerned about media outlets circumventing process than making it seem bureaucratic.
00:26:42 <SirCavalier> Indeed. Top level exposure at Celebration Anaheim should be a kick-start to new, better relationship with outside entities and the SW fandom as a whole.
00:26:48 <Zuko> i think it's a good idea and, i really agree with the people selected ^^
00:27:05 <Supreme_Emperor> I like Brandon's suggestion
00:27:06 <Cade> CP: I don't believe that there'd be a regular release of anything
00:27:07 <Brandon_Rhea> I would also say that this is generally going to apply to fan sites and things like this, in my opinion. Major media outlets should be going through Wikia's PR agency. I would personally insist on that being part of this.
00:27:21 <Brandon_Rhea> But that's me personally. It's not a deal breaker.
00:27:24 <Cade> It'd just be something to deal with whatever comes up, AFAIK
00:27:25 <Hands> Due to schedule confusion and my aforementioned plans tonight, I'm probably going to just vote on this issue before signing off.
00:27:27 <Ayrehead02> If there's now a team though will there be more discussion between our different social media pages. The podcast was only mentioned on Twitter from what I remember
00:27:28 <Riffsyphon1024> In terms of additional requests, it goes through the admin email then? Or on Wookieepedia?
00:27:51 <SimToprawa> That's more of an internal decision between each social media outlet, Ayrehead
00:28:04 <SimToprawa> We'll make calls case-by-case
00:28:07 <Culator|Away> It's an interesting idea in theory. I like the idea of a quick PR response team. I've liaised with that kind of a team before and I know it can be useful. But.
00:28:09 <Ayrehead02> Fair enough
00:28:09 <Culator|Away> [20:21] <@SimToprawa> But non-PR people should go through some measure of community approval before giving an interview, etc. [20:22] <@SimToprawa> If they don't, we won't be happy.
00:28:14 <Culator|Away> What does that mean?
00:28:16 <MasterFred> Not everything on Twitter and Facebook translates to Instagram. Totally different type of outlet.
00:28:17 <Brandon_Rhea> Riff - I think it'd be a good idea to create a media account (like media@wookieepedia.com or something) for the folks who are approved as part of the PR team.
00:28:19 <FeNite> Will these people be giving interviews or just general or stuff like Twitter?
00:28:32 <FeNite> *pr
00:28:41 <Riffsyphon1024> Unapproved interviews resulting in bans or demotion?
00:28:42 <SimToprawa> To answer Culator, it means that if Culator wants to respond to an interview request, he's not specifically barred, he should just clear it with the administration/community
00:29:00 <SimToprawa> Riff> We would play by that ear
00:29:06 <SimToprawa> Depends on the severity of it
00:29:08 <Riffsyphon1024> Understood.
00:29:16 <Hands> This is definitely a great idea.
00:29:22 <Cade> This is simply giving these specific people the automatic go-ahead for PR matters that arise.
00:29:30 <Supreme_Emperor> These individuals would be authorized to speak on Wookieepedia's behalf without requiring it to go through a CT or something else FeNite
00:29:41 <Culator|Away> This just sounds like it's opening the door to censorship. If I happen to speak my mind as an individual, someone will have grounds to kick me off Wookieepedia.
00:29:56 <Brandon_Rhea> This is about formal interviews, not conversations with people.
00:29:57 <Cade> Ehhh.... not really.
00:30:01 <grunny> I like the idea. I assume new people joining the team would be organic rather than official voting? i.e. when someone is involved enough on the social media/PR side of the Wook
00:30:02 <Cade> Per Brandon.
00:30:16 <Riffsyphon1024> Just want to know where other admins or other users go if they are asked and need to ask the community for approval.
00:30:29 <MasterFred> I feel like perhaps a "Contact Us" page should be drafted, but that's not required for this vote. As it stands, I'm down for creating PR spokepersons.
00:30:30 <SimToprawa> I would suggest going to the admin email or the SH.
00:30:30 <JorrelFraajic> Could always use the "these viewpoints are of the person, not the wiki" clause.
00:30:34 <Culator|Away> Without a clear definition of "etc." and "If they don't, we won't be happy." there's no limits.
00:30:37 <SimToprawa> If the community gives general approval, then go ahead
00:30:47 <Supreme_Emperor> I would think speaking to the other admins would be fine in that case
00:30:56 <SimToprawa> Culator, the AFD thing should be a perfect example of where the line is drawn.
00:31:18 <Culator|Away> Except it isn't. There was no line there because it was all over the Internet.
00:31:18 <SimToprawa> People got hot-headed and ran off and started causing trouble on Twitter and other sites.
00:31:26 <grunny> I don't think it's censorship, everyone else should already be discussing things before speaking on behalf of the community anyway, the only thing this changes is the team being pre-approved as it were
00:31:52 <FeNite> I think additional members should be voted on since they would represent the community
00:31:59 <Riffsyphon1024> Per FeNite
00:32:08 <Culator|Away> You want a PR team, fine. Just don't try to make it exclusive without extremely clear definitions.
00:32:19 <SimToprawa> No one said that isn't happening, FeNite
00:32:27 <SimToprawa> This isn't a user tier, though
00:32:35 <SimToprawa> We won't have a specific user page, just like we don't for CheckUser
00:32:46 <Brandon_Rhea> I think in the case of AFD, if someone ran off and start spouting off on Twitter or another website or whatever, no one can stop them. But the PR team can say "This person does not speak for Wookieepedia, but we do."
00:33:01 <IFYLOFD> ^
00:33:01 <SimToprawa> Brandon put it perfectly right there
00:33:10 <Cade> Exactly.
00:33:11 <SimToprawa> People impersonate us on Twitter, for example
00:33:14 <Supreme_Emperor> Yes
00:33:23 <SimToprawa> We can point to our PR team and say that this is or isn't an officially sanctioned Wookieepedia rep
00:33:34 <Cade> That happened with the AFD thing. Someone with the username "Wookieepedia" was posting stuff in comment sections.
00:33:40 <Hands> Just like a real corporation.
00:33:43 <SimToprawa> Exactly per Cade
00:34:17 <Brandon_Rhea> Per Hands too. While "corporation" obviously isn't the most apt example, this is the sign of a more grown up website taking responsibility for how it's represented, rather than the free for all that it has been in the past.
00:34:38 <Hands> I guess company's a better word.
00:34:50 <Riffsyphon1024> Boy have we grown.
00:34:56 <Culator|Away> Until there's a policy page laid out for this, there's nothing to support. Taking it to the Mofference without something concrete is a waste of time.
00:35:20 <Brandon_Rhea> Disagreed. We've set up the team, and we've said that they're the ones who get to officially represent Wookieepedia. That's plenty to vote on.
00:35:26 <SimToprawa> I don't know what your issue is exactly, Culator
00:35:37 <IFYLOFD> There's not going to be a page for this anyway
00:35:49 <SimToprawa> The point is expressly not to have a page
00:35:53 <Culator|Away> My issue is the potential future repercussions of writing a blank check for this idea.
00:35:59 <SimToprawa> I think I explained this as clear as it can possibly be
00:36:03 <JorrelFraajic> Just make it clear that the views of non-PR people aren't necessarily the views of Wookieepedia.
00:36:27 <SimToprawa> Per Jorrel
00:36:29 <Brandon_Rhea> I don't think anyone's suggesting someone is going to be banned or demoted or whatever. Just that they'll be called out as not being a representative of the community in whatever capacity they're speaking in.
00:36:32 <JorrelFraajic> The disclaimer "The view, opinions, and statements expressed by non-PR-team authors are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or statements of Wookieepedia." should do. I've seen it used everywhere.
00:36:37 <Cade> There won't be any reprecussions outside of the ones we'd typically issue to people who do stupid things in the name of Wookieepedia
00:36:40 <Culator|Away> Creating a group and saying if people contradict them that you "won't be happy" is not how this site works.
00:36:58 <MasterFred> Perhaps we should decide on how to take care of a PR who poorly represents the community?
00:37:00 <JorrelFraajic> I say we should have a general contact page, though, and frankly I'm not sure I agree with not disclosing names.
00:37:01 <Supreme_Emperor> Per Jorrel
00:37:14 <Riffsyphon1024> Per Jorrel.
00:37:15 <SimToprawa> Culator, I don't want to make this personal, but it was your and Cade's actions during AFD that has made this step a necessity
00:37:22 <SimToprawa> And Olioster on Twitter
00:37:26 * Cade nods
00:37:29 <SimToprawa> You three did more to embarrass us than anyone
00:37:39 <Culator|Away> I'm aware of that.
00:37:40 <Supreme_Emperor> I think a general contact page would work best. From there we could direct people to the PR team
00:37:42 <Cade> We only made the Jang stuff worse.
00:37:55 <ecks> we have contact@wookieepedia.com email for a reason
00:37:58 <SimToprawa> In situations like this, we need to be able to point to you and say "This guy does not speak for or represent us."
00:38:03 <Hands> Lol AFD's purpose.
00:38:28 <SimToprawa> SE, a contact page is a good idea, and it's in the works
00:38:35 <IFYLOFD> All we're asking is that you clear it with us before you go speaking in our name.
00:38:39 <Culator|Away> And without a policy page to back it up, what proof of that is there?
00:38:42 <JorrelFraajic> I didn't even know contact@wookieepedia.com existed, so there's that.
00:38:50 <SimToprawa> The Mofference minutes, Culator
00:38:54 <MasterFred> ^
00:38:55 <Riffsyphon1024> I support a Contact Wookieepedia page or at least centralized area for media.
00:38:57 <SimToprawa> And the CT results log
00:38:59 <Brandon_Rhea> I'd like to think that Wookieepedia is grown up enough to act on trust as well, rather than paranoia.
00:39:02 <SimToprawa> We don't need a policy page for everything
00:39:25 <IFYLOFD> Once a policy page is hashed out we can CT that
00:39:27 <Culator|Away> Which, again, specify nothing except the fact that you "won't be happy" if someone contradicts your ill-defined little group.
00:39:28 <IFYLOFD> Or a contact page
00:39:40 <SimToprawa> I'm perfectly ok with including a site stipulation this for this to create a central Wookieepedia contact page
00:39:42 <MasterFred> A contact page would be great for people who would like to contact individuals regarding social media content.
00:39:47 <Cade> Culator, "won't be happy" is an expression.
00:39:50 <Brandon_Rhea> I wouldn't read too much into "we won't be happy." I think it's been explained well enough and we're just going around in circles on this.
00:40:01 <IFYLOFD> We have enough to vote on this
00:40:02 <SimToprawa> Culator, how would you like me to clarify that? That was my nice way of saying if you represent us poorly, we reserve the right to RFRA you.
00:40:06 <SimToprawa> As the RFRA state clearly states.
00:40:10 <SimToprawa> RFRA page*
00:40:27 <Culator|Away> Thank you.
00:40:29 <Cade> RFRA/block/etc. depending on position, right?
00:40:30 <JorrelFraajic> Change "won't be happy" to "Case-by-case action will be discussed"
00:40:32 <Brandon_Rhea> A right that has always been reserved, it should be noted.
00:40:42 <Cade> Per Jorrel.
00:40:45 <Riffsyphon1024> Per Jorrel.
00:40:45 <Culator|Away> All I wanted was to get it on record.
00:40:49 <Culator|Away> Was that so hard?
00:40:53 <IFYLOFD> OK, now it's on the record, Culator.
00:40:55 <SimToprawa> I didn't know that's what you wanted.
00:40:55 <Supreme_Emperor> I like Jorrel's idea
00:40:58 <SimToprawa> I'm fine with that
00:41:01 <IFYLOFD> Like I said, we should have enough to vote on this.
00:41:12 <IFYLOFD> All along, it's been case-by-case basis.
00:41:15 <MasterFred> Let's vote. I have to get ready for work. :P
00:41:18 <IFYLOFD> Let's go to a vote.
00:41:26 <Cade> *cough*Disneytraitor*cough*
00:41:31 <Culator|Away> I've actually been fairly well behaved since last April. :P
00:41:32 <ProfessorTofty> If that's the only issue left, then yeah, let's vote. Because there have definitely been some circles going.
00:41:37 <Riffsyphon1024> 40 minutes and we haven't gotten to issue 3.
00:41:42 <SimToprawa> Go ahead, Floyd
00:41:42 <IFYLOFD> #startvote On the creation of the Wookieepedia PR team thing. Yes, No, Abstain
00:41:42 <Nuku-Nuku> Unable to parse vote topic and options.
00:41:51 <IFYLOFD> The fuck you say
00:41:54 <Supreme_Emperor> o_O
00:41:57 <SimToprawa> Did you end the last vote?
00:42:04 <IFYLOFD> I did.
00:42:10 <SimToprawa> #endvote
00:42:17 <exiledjedi> I think the name was probably too long.
00:42:18 <IFYLOFD> #startvote Should we create a Wookieepedia PR team? Yes, No, Abstain
00:42:18 <Nuku-Nuku> Begin voting on: Should we create a Wookieepedia PR team? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain.
00:42:18 <Nuku-Nuku> Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
00:42:24 <Culator|Away> Try phrasing it as a question.
00:42:25 <Supreme_Emperor> #vote yes
00:42:25 <Hands> #vote yes
00:42:26 <JorrelFraajic> #vote yes
00:42:26 <ProfessorTofty> #vote yes
00:42:26 <Culator|Away> Oh, good.
00:42:27 <SirCavalier> #vote yes
00:42:27 <IFYLOFD> I think it was it has to end in a question, yeah
00:42:27 <Brandon_Rhea> #vote Yes
00:42:28 <SimToprawa> #vote Yes
00:42:30 <Culator|Away> #vote yes
00:42:30 <IFYLOFD> #vote Yes
00:42:30 <MasterFred> #vote yes
00:42:31 <Trip391> #vote yes
00:42:32 <Cade> #vote Yes
00:42:33 <dogma> #vote yes
00:42:34 <exiledjedi> #vote Yes
00:42:38 <CorellianPremier> #vote yes
00:42:41 <Ayrehead02> #vote yes
00:42:46 <Riffsyphon1024> #vote yes
00:42:51 <FeNite> #vote yes
00:43:03 <grunny> #vote yes
00:43:08 <Zuko> #vote yes
00:43:19 <IFYLOFD> Closing the vote in five seconds
00:43:27 <IFYLOFD> #endvote
00:43:28 <Nuku-Nuku> Voted on "Should we create a Wookieepedia PR team?" Results are
00:43:28 <Nuku-Nuku> Yes (20): Culator|Away, Supreme_Emperor, Trip391, SirCavalier, MasterFred, grunny, Zuko, SimToprawa, ProfessorTofty, FeNite, Riffsyphon1024, IFYLOFD, dogma, exiledjedi, JorrelFraajic, Cade, Hands, Ayrehead02, Brandon_Rhea, CorellianPremier
00:43:41 <Cade> Floor is now closed.
00:43:42 <IFYLOFD> Wookieepedia PR team is hereby brought into existence.
00:43:51 <IFYLOFD> An auspicious day.
00:44:00 <IFYLOFD> Item 3, Tope again has the floor.
00:44:17 <SimToprawa> Ok.
00:44:42 <SimToprawa> Zuko will be the unintended focus of this item, but it's not specifically made to address him.
00:44:53 <SimToprawa> Wikia has decided to make Zuko a Helper.
00:45:02 <SimToprawa> For those unaware of what a Helper is, see here: http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Help:Volunteers_and_Helpers#Helpers
00:45:21 <SimToprawa> Basically, it means he will have global admin rights on Wookieepedia
00:45:47 <SimToprawa> But Helpers are specifically designated for foreign-language wikis, so they really have no reason to ever use their sysops here
00:46:18 <SimToprawa> Since Zuko is a regular contributor of this site, I think it's in the best interests of Wookieepedia that we define what a Helper can and can't do with their sysops on Wookieepedia.
00:46:26 <SimToprawa> My proposal is simple, and Zuko can chime in on this as well:
00:46:38 <SimToprawa> Wikia Helpers may not use their sysops on Wookieepedia without prior community approval.
00:46:45 <SimToprawa> Go ahead, Floyd
00:46:54 <IFYLOFD> Floor is open for discussion.
00:47:04 <Cade> Support.
00:47:08 <Culator|Away> That's pretty much my take.
00:47:09 <SirCavalier> Totally
00:47:10 <Zuko> I perfectly agree, only administrator my use administrative tools on the wook
00:47:11 <Supreme_Emperor> Agreed
00:47:24 <FeNite> How is this different from the vote at the last moff?
00:47:25 <grunny> sure
00:47:38 <Culator|Away> I like Wikia just fine as long as they're being as hands off as possible. Same goes for their volunteers.
00:47:46 <Cade> What vote, Fe Nite?
00:47:47 <SirCavalier> Let's put it this way, we get Brandon to hold off on his tools and he gets paid by the company :P
00:47:49 <Culator|Away> FeNite: That was about staff.
00:48:08 <Riffsyphon1024> I read what a Helper is. What is Zuko's explicit role here as Helper?
00:48:08 <Culator|Away> This is about their unpaid wiki slaves. I mean "Helpers".
00:48:13 <Brandon_Rhea> One of these days, Cav. ONE OF THESE DAYS.
00:48:16 <Zuko> i have none
00:48:18 <Cade> Riff: He doesn't have one.
00:48:23 <ProfessorTofty> Forgive my ignorance, but who is Zuko on Wookieepedia? I don't recognize the name.
00:48:26 <Cade> It's a global sysop thing.
00:48:27 <Zuko> My role will be for the french community
00:48:30 <Zuko> Emperor Jarjarkine
00:48:38 <ProfessorTofty> Ah, okay. That name I recognize.
00:48:44 <IFYLOFD> Helpers don't have any relevance for Wookieepedia, like Tope said
00:48:44 <Riffsyphon1024> Ah okay.
00:48:44 <Zuko> ^^
00:48:47 <FeNite> Wikia helper vs staff... Is this necessary?
00:48:50 <IFYLOFD> Only foreign-language wikis
00:49:00 <Cade> *sigh* What, Fe Nite?
00:49:00 <SimToprawa> Staff aren't included in this
00:49:14 <SimToprawa> They technically outrank everyone, whereas Helpers don't outrank admins, as the Wikia page says
00:49:38 <FeNite> Nvm
00:49:42 <Riffsyphon1024> Outranking is such a funny concept. It's just a matter of user rights.
00:49:45 <JorrelFraajic> It's a useful distinction to clarify each individual role with regards to the Wook.
00:49:51 <SimToprawa> per Jorrel
00:50:09 <JorrelFraajic> No sense in using a blanket if we can do what we're doing now.
00:50:17 <IFYLOFD> Alright
00:50:23 <IFYLOFD> If no one else has anything, let's go to a vote
00:50:27 <Riffsyphon1024> I see a Helper as assisting admins but on that global level.
00:50:29 <Trip391> Is there a way to disable "helper" rights locally, or this can only be done on the honor system?
00:50:29 <Cade> Hence Floyd's belief that "Cade" is a rank below admin
00:50:36 <IFYLOFD> yes btw totally
00:50:38 <Brandon_Rhea> No way to disable it, no.
00:50:43 <Brandon_Rhea> No need to either.
00:50:53 <IFYLOFD> Cade is a rank below DUNG
00:51:07 <IFYLOFD> OK, let's go to a vote
00:51:08 <Riffsyphon1024> Frankly I'm still a little confused by this vote.
00:51:13 <JorrelFraajic> I'm offended, on Dung's behalf.
00:51:14 <Cade> ^_^
00:51:16 <SimToprawa> Why is this confusing?
00:51:20 <IFYLOFD> Riff, what's there to possibly be confused by?
00:51:22 <SimToprawa> It simply means Helpers cannot use their sysops
00:51:32 <Cade> <SimToprawa> Wikia Helpers may not use their sysops on Wookieepedia without prior community approval.
00:51:42 <Zuko> as long as i dont use my rights, nor any other Helper there should be no problems
00:51:43 <IFYLOFD> Because Helpers have no relevance to Wookieepedia and have not been elected by Wookieepedia as admins.
00:51:44 <Riffsyphon1024> Okay, so we're just making that clear then.
00:51:50 <JorrelFraajic> Technically, Zuko could go on a delete spree right now because he has that power. We're issuing a vote to stop that possibility.
00:52:01 <Culator|Away> You have buttons here, but don't use them. End of story.
00:52:04 <IFYLOFD> But Zuko wouldn't do that, would he now?
00:52:06 <Supreme_Emperor> This way we have something to point to if this becomes a problem in the future
00:52:07 <Riffsyphon1024> But Zuko is a nice guy so we don't have to worry. :P
00:52:08 <JorrelFraajic> (not picking on Zuko, you're just convenient and here)
00:52:17 <Cade> Well, a vote to institute reprecussions to said possibility, yes.
00:52:17 <Zuko> i wouldn't
00:52:20 <Cade> Vote time.
00:52:23 <IFYLOFD> Because Zuko is a good fella.
00:52:24 <Riffsyphon1024> Ok then, understood.
00:52:25 <IFYLOFD> Let's vote.
00:52:31 <ProfessorTofty> Agreed, let's vote it.
00:52:34 <Supreme_Emperor> ^
00:52:41 <IFYLOFD> #startvote Should Wikia Helpers not be allowed to use their sysops here? Yes, No, Abstain
00:52:41 <Nuku-Nuku> Begin voting on: Should Wikia Helpers not be allowed to use their sysops here? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain.
00:52:41 <Nuku-Nuku> Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
00:52:44 <dogma> #vote yes
00:52:45 <Trip391> #vote yes
00:52:47 <Cade> #vote Yes
00:52:48 <ProfessorTofty> #vote yes
00:52:48 <IFYLOFD> #vote yes
00:52:48 <Supreme_Emperor> #vote yes
00:52:49 <Brandon_Rhea> #vote Abstain
00:52:49 <SirCavalier> #vote yes
00:52:50 <Zuko> #vote yes
00:52:51 <SimToprawa> #vote Yes
00:52:52 <CorellianPremier> #vote yes
00:52:53 <JorrelFraajic> #vote Yes
00:52:53 <exiledjedi> #vote yes
00:52:54 <Riffsyphon1024> #vote yes
00:52:55 <Culator|Away> #vote yes
00:53:06 <Ayrehead02> #vote yes
00:53:09 <grunny> #vote yes
00:53:18 <IFYLOFD> Closing vote in five seconds.
00:53:31 <IFYLOFD> #endvote
00:53:31 <Nuku-Nuku> Voted on "Should Wikia Helpers not be allowed to use their sysops here?" Results are
00:53:31 <Nuku-Nuku> Yes (16): CorellianPremier, Culator|Away, Supreme_Emperor, Trip391, SirCavalier, grunny, SimToprawa, ProfessorTofty, Riffsyphon1024, IFYLOFD, dogma, exiledjedi, JorrelFraajic, Cade, Ayrehead02, Zuko
00:53:31 <Nuku-Nuku> Abstain (1): Brandon_Rhea
00:53:46 <IFYLOFD> OK
00:53:48 <IFYLOFD> Item 4
00:53:49 <Cade> Floor is now closed.
00:53:59 <IFYLOFD> Wikia helpers cannot use their sysops
00:54:04 <IFYLOFD> EJ, you have the floor
00:54:16 <exiledjedi> Okay, this proposal is pretty simple.
00:54:50 <exiledjedi> Basically I want to add the following rule from the Good article nominations page to the Comprehensive article nominations page:
00:55:25 <exiledjedi> Comprehensive articles must: "...include a reasonable number of images of sufficient quality to illustrate the article, if said images are available."
00:56:01 <exiledjedi> Why should the standards be lower for one nomination type?
00:56:13 <exiledjedi> That's all I really have to say.
00:56:29 <IFYLOFD> OK, the floor is open
00:56:33 <SimToprawa> It's kind of amazing that this hasn't been already a rule for all these years.
00:56:37 <dogma> sounds good
00:56:46 <Brandon_Rhea> Makes sense to me.
00:56:46 <Supreme_Emperor> I absolutely agree with this, this is a great idea
00:56:48 <Ayrehead02> Support. RIP refresher booth
00:57:03 <Culator|Away> Simple enough. Copypaste. VOTE NOW
00:57:05 <ProfessorTofty> Well, comprehensive articles are small, right? So I would assume 2 or 3 would illustrate. Anymore and it would probably be cluttered, yes? Unless one used a gallery, which we don't.
00:57:11 <Cade> What?
00:57:13 <Riffsyphon1024> So no CAs with no images?
00:57:16 <exiledjedi> This is about image quality.
00:57:17 <Cade> ^_^
00:57:17 <IFYLOFD> No
00:57:17 <Cade> No.
00:57:19 <SimToprawa> We don't need to even try to quantify this.
00:57:21 <SimToprawa> Wrong
00:57:32 <Cade> This is saying that if there's an available image, it should be in the infobox
00:57:33 <ProfessorTofty> Ah, quality. Fine with me, then.
00:57:36 <Cade> And should be of good quality
00:57:50 <IFYLOFD> This doesn't really need explaining
00:58:00 <Supreme_Emperor> This is very straightforward
00:58:07 <IFYLOFD> Let's vote.
00:58:13 <Supreme_Emperor> A status article shouldn't have a shitty image
00:58:19 <Riffsyphon1024> Got it.
00:58:21 <CorellianPremier> indeed
00:58:21 <Supreme_Emperor> shitty quality*
00:58:25 <JorrelFraajic> Excellent distillation.
00:58:28 <IFYLOFD> #startvote All in favor of an image quality requirement for CAs? Yes, No, Abstain
00:58:28 <Nuku-Nuku> Begin voting on: All in favor of an image quality requirement for CAs? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain.
00:58:28 <Nuku-Nuku> Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
00:58:30 <Brandon_Rhea> #vote Yes
00:58:30 <dogma> #vote yes
00:58:33 <Ayrehead02> #vote yes
00:58:33 <ProfessorTofty> #vote yes
00:58:33 <FeNite> #vote yes
00:58:34 <Zuko> #vote yes
00:58:34 <Riffsyphon1024> #vote Yes
00:58:34 <JorrelFraajic> #vote yes
00:58:34 <Trip391> #vote yes
00:58:34 <exiledjedi> #vote yes
00:58:35 <Supreme_Emperor> #vote yes
00:58:35 <Cade> #vote Yes
00:58:36 <IFYLOFD> #vote Yes
00:58:37 <CorellianPremier> #vote yes
00:58:39 <SirCavalier> #vote yes
00:58:45 <Culator|Away> #vote yes
00:58:48 <Lord_Oblivion> #vote yes
00:59:05 <SimToprawa> #vote Yes
00:59:29 <IFYLOFD> Closing in five seconds.
00:59:42 <IFYLOFD> #endvote
00:59:42 <Nuku-Nuku> Voted on "All in favor of an image quality requirement for CAs?" Results are
00:59:42 <Nuku-Nuku> Yes (18): CorellianPremier, Culator|Away, Ayrehead02, Zuko, SirCavalier, FeNite, Supreme_Emperor, Lord_Oblivion, SimToprawa, ProfessorTofty, Riffsyphon1024, IFYLOFD, dogma, exiledjedi, JorrelFraajic, Cade, Brandon_Rhea, Trip391
00:59:47 <IFYLOFD> A clean sweep
01:00:00 <IFYLOFD> CAs now have an image quality requirement
01:00:03 <Cade> Alright, floor is now closed.
01:00:04 <IFYLOFD> Item 5
01:00:09 <IFYLOFD> Toprawa, the floor is yours
01:00:16 <SimToprawa> Ok.
01:00:23 <SimToprawa> Give us Unlimited Powah.
01:00:25 <SimToprawa> That is all.
01:00:30 <SimToprawa> I wish. :P
01:00:41 <SimToprawa> This, too, may be a bit involved, so I'll keep it simple.
01:01:25 <SimToprawa> I'm proposing that the community grant the administration the freedom to implement on-site programming, such as that which we did for Celebration, without the need to go through a CT.
01:01:50 <SimToprawa> Why? Because often times things of this nature don't afford us 1-2 weeks' advance notice, so we end up scrambling to get something onto the Consensus track in time.
01:02:22 <SimToprawa> I think we just put the Celebration CT up on the last day or second-to-last day before it could legally end in time before Celebration began, just because we had to wait on info from Lucasfilm, etc.
01:02:46 <SimToprawa> It would have been quite unfortunate for us not to have had any Celebration coverage on Wookieepedia because of something so stupidly bureaucratic as this.
01:03:06 <SimToprawa> Basically, trust us to implement quality programming when we have special events like this, for the duration of the special event and no longer.
01:03:20 <SimToprawa> I guess I can clarify anything that needs clarifying, because I'm sure you people have questions.
01:03:22 <SimToprawa> Go, Floyd
01:03:26 <IFYLOFD> Floor is open.
01:03:38 <Cade> This is for non-permanent, non-policy stuff.
01:03:39 <Riffsyphon1024> Well that makes sense.
01:03:40 <Cade> Right?
01:03:44 <Supreme_Emperor> Definitely
01:03:44 <SimToprawa> Yes, Cade
01:03:50 <Cade> Alrighty then.
01:03:50 <SimToprawa> Temporary programming, such as with Celebration
01:03:51 <Brandon_Rhea> I think it goes without saying that I support this.
01:04:00 <Ayrehead02> Sounds good to me
01:04:06 <JorrelFraajic> I can dig it.
01:04:07 <IFYLOFD> Yepparoo
01:04:08 <Riffsyphon1024> Time-sensitive scenarios is what I'm reading from this.
01:04:09 <ProfessorTofty> I'm for it. We have admins who can turn this stuff on and off and we can just that they'll pull the switch as needed. Should work fine.
01:04:16 <Zuko> Aye sir !
01:04:22 <IFYLOFD> Splendid
01:04:23 <SimToprawa> And if we don't turn it off, you can RFRA us :P
01:04:34 <Culator|Away> I'm not sure what you mean by "programming" since the only thing I noticed about Celebration were the blogs.
01:04:43 <Zuko> ^^
01:04:43 <JorrelFraajic> As if that'd ever work. :P
01:04:44 <ProfessorTofty> There were videos too.
01:04:46 <SimToprawa> We added videos. What else did we do?
01:04:51 <Supreme_Emperor> Blogs?
01:04:59 <Supreme_Emperor> Just videos and blogs, right
01:05:02 <Supreme_Emperor> right? *
01:05:04 <Trip391> Brackets
01:05:07 <Brandon_Rhea> Blogs and videos were the big one, but that was also just for Celebration. There could be something else that those could be useful for.
01:05:17 <Supreme_Emperor> Regardless this is a good idea
01:05:17 <Riffsyphon1024> Blogs and videos were activated for that time period. Did overlap with Madness Brackets.
01:05:19 <IFYLOFD> That was a separate thing
01:05:20 <SimToprawa> The idea is that we have the potential to create and add new stuff, similar to videos, etc.
01:05:25 <Culator|Away> And it would be enabled just for admins.
01:05:26 <Brandon_Rhea> There's also the fact that some programming may be confidential and we may only be able to share it with the admins, so we couldn't possibly do a CT if we wanted to. That's the key part for me.
01:05:39 <Riffsyphon1024> Per Brandon.
01:05:47 <Culator|Away> This is the point I want to be incredibly clear on.
01:05:59 <JorrelFraajic> I want to bring out a certain 4-word phrase...
01:06:01 <JorrelFraajic> :P
01:06:11 <IFYLOFD> Her Majesty's Secret Service?
01:06:18 <Brandon_Rhea> "Please shut up, Floyd"
01:06:20 <Brandon_Rhea> :D
01:06:24 <Supreme_Emperor> :P
01:06:26 <Riffsyphon1024> "I told you so"?
01:06:29 <JorrelFraajic> That works for everyone!
01:06:36 <IFYLOFD> But yes, it would just be for the administration.
01:06:46 <ProfessorTofty> For Their Eyes Only
01:06:56 <Brandon_Rhea> *administration or staff, depending on the nature of the programming.
01:07:00 <IFYLOFD> OK, let's not get off-topic here
01:07:09 <Culator|Away> As long as we don't have users posting blogs.
01:07:11 <Brandon_Rhea> So I'd say "administrators or above," though I hesitate to use the word "above"
01:07:12 <IFYLOFD> Of course
01:07:22 <Culator|Away> Or videos.
01:07:23 <Riffsyphon1024> Temporary, time-sensitive items only.
01:07:31 <Zuko> above are bureaucrats brandon ?
01:07:32 <IFYLOFD> Yes.
01:07:33 <Culator|Away> Dear lord, no user videos.
01:07:39 <IFYLOFD> That will never happen.
01:07:39 <dogma> :P
01:07:47 <Brandon_Rhea> Zuko, when I say above, I mean staff. All bureaucrats are also admins.
01:07:50 <Riffsyphon1024> brackets will be yearly if SW.com continues Madness though.
01:07:55 <dogma> "Cade's guide to editing"
01:08:02 <Zuko> oh i see ^^
01:08:03 <Cade> Gentlemen.
01:08:09 <IFYLOFD> Anyone else have anything of substance to say?
01:08:12 <Cade> Stay on topic or you will be booted.
01:08:21 <IFYLOFD> No?
01:08:23 <IFYLOFD> Vote time.
01:08:34 <IFYLOFD> #startvote All in favor of giving us UNLIMITED POWER? Yes, No, Abstain
01:08:34 <Nuku-Nuku> Begin voting on: All in favor of giving us UNLIMITED POWER? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain.
01:08:34 <Nuku-Nuku> Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
01:08:35 <dogma> #vote yes
01:08:36 <Cade> #vote Yes
01:08:36 <Brandon_Rhea> #vote Yes
01:08:37 <Trip391> #vote yes
01:08:38 <ProfessorTofty> #vote yes
01:08:38 <IFYLOFD> #vote yes
01:08:39 <SimToprawa> #vote Yes
01:08:40 <Culator|Away> #vote yes
01:08:40 <SirCavalier> #vote yes
01:08:40 <Supreme_Emperor> #vote yes
01:08:41 <exiledjedi> #vote yes
01:08:46 <Ayrehead02> #vote yes
01:08:48 <FeNite> #vote yes
01:08:49 <grunny> #vote yes
01:08:52 <CorellianPremier> #vote yes
01:08:55 <JorrelFraajic> #vote yes
01:08:55 <Riffsyphon1024> #vote yes
01:08:56 <Zuko> #vote yes
01:09:06 <IFYLOFD> Closing in five seconds.
01:09:17 <IFYLOFD> #endvote
01:09:17 <Nuku-Nuku> Voted on "All in favor of giving us UNLIMITED POWER?" Results are
01:09:17 <Nuku-Nuku> Yes (18): Culator|Away, Supreme_Emperor, Trip391, SirCavalier, FeNite, grunny, Zuko, SimToprawa, ProfessorTofty, Riffsyphon1024, IFYLOFD, dogma, exiledjedi, Cade, Ayrehead02, Brandon_Rhea, JorrelFraajic, CorellianPremier
01:09:25 <Cade> Floor is now closed.
01:09:26 <IFYLOFD> UNLIMITED POWER granted.
01:09:32 <IFYLOFD> Item 6.
01:09:36 <IFYLOFD> Tope, you again have the floor.
01:09:41 <SimToprawa> Ok, Talk page policy.
01:10:24 <SimToprawa> This may seem obvious, but the Talk page policy doesn't actually necessitate that the Talkheader template be added to talk pages
01:10:36 <SimToprawa> The Talkheader, of course, is the template that tells people what the rules are.
01:10:45 <SimToprawa> Firstly, I propose the following:
01:10:58 <SimToprawa> A new clause can be added to the policy page
01:11:05 <SimToprawa> 1.	All in-use talk pages must include the Talkheader template. Talk pages should not be created simply to add the Talkheader template.
01:11:17 <SimToprawa> The second one is for these weird people who insist on creating talk pages simply to add Talkheader.
01:11:24 <SimToprawa> They just end up getting CSD'd.
01:11:36 <SimToprawa> This is the first one. It should be straightforward. I'll have a second one after this, Floyd.
01:11:39 <SimToprawa> Go.
01:11:49 <IFYLOFD> OK, floor is open on the first part of Tope's proposal.
01:11:53 <Cade> Agreed.
01:11:55 <grunny> all sounds good to me
01:12:03 <Supreme_Emperor> Yep
01:12:04 <Ayrehead02> I already assumed this was a rule
01:12:05 <Riffsyphon1024> So in-use should only have the template.
01:12:06 <IFYLOFD> Pretty straightforward and unobjectionable to me.
01:12:09 <JorrelFraajic> Per Ayre.
01:12:13 <IFYLOFD> Yes, Riff.
01:12:14 <Culator|Away> Why do that?
01:12:15 <Cade> Riff: What?
01:12:16 <Riffsyphon1024> Ditto then.
01:12:22 <Cade> In-use?
01:12:31 <Brandon_Rhea> Feels like instruction creep to me. Nothing harmful but is it necessary? Why not just add the talkheader instead of mandating that we add the talkheader? Are we going to ban people if they frequently don't add the talkheader?
01:12:32 <IFYLOFD> Talk pages with stuff on them, Cade.
01:12:34 <JorrelFraajic> As in, the talk page is being talked on, I assume.
01:12:35 <Brandon_Rhea> That last part would be my biggest concern.
01:12:35 <Riffsyphon1024> Per the language, a page that has content on it.
01:12:36 <Culator|Away> You look and see it has a blue 'talk' tab and it's JUST a header and you want to stab the monitor
01:12:41 <Culator|Away> BLARG
01:12:53 <Cade> Ah. In-use usually means the {{inuse}}
01:12:59 <SimToprawa> No.
01:13:05 <ProfessorTofty> Anyway we could just make it automatic when people create a new talk page for an article? That way, we wouldn't even have to worry about people forgetting it.
01:13:09 <SimToprawa> We can substitute "in-use" with "active"
01:13:10 <Riffsyphon1024> Sorry, Cade. Didn't mean to confuse with that template.
01:13:16 <Riffsyphon1024> Per Tope.
01:13:18 <IFYLOFD> That's an interesting idea, Tofty
01:13:21 <Cade> Tofty: I think I've examined that possibility
01:13:23 <SimToprawa> Active talk pages should have Talkheader. That means don't create a talk page just to add the template.
01:13:28 <Cade> If not, I can look at it again
01:13:37 <IFYLOFD> That's something to look at down the line
01:13:41 <FeNite> What about the pages that haven't been edited in years? Do they need a talkheader even though there is no conversation?
01:13:46 <SimToprawa> Yes
01:13:47 <IFYLOFD> Yes
01:13:48 <Riffsyphon1024> Per Toyty too?
01:13:49 <FeNite> *active convo
01:13:49 <SimToprawa> I add them whenever I see them
01:13:50 <Brandon_Rhea> It also says they "must" include it. So what happens if someone creates an active talk page, and they don't include it?
01:13:51 <Riffsyphon1024> Tofty*
01:13:51 <Cade> Maybe it was an editintro template that I was looking at.
01:14:00 <SimToprawa> We ban them, obviously, Brandon :P
01:14:01 <Supreme_Emperor> If it has a comment on it, it gets a talkheader
01:14:05 <Cade> Brandon: Then Trip will add the Talkheader :P
01:14:11 <SimToprawa> It just means they should have them
01:14:11 <JorrelFraajic> :P
01:14:19 <SimToprawa> So when Floyd tries to break the archive record, I can legally show him why he failed
01:14:24 <Cade> Hahahah
01:14:25 <Supreme_Emperor> XD
01:14:28 <IFYLOFD> You goddamn shithead bastard
01:14:29 <Zuko> :D
01:14:31 <IFYLOFD> That record is mine.
01:14:36 <IFYLOFD> It will always be mine.
01:14:38 <Riffsyphon1024> We have that option don't we. If you start a new talk page, it automatically includes the template?
01:14:39 <Brandon_Rhea> Ok, still seems unnecessary, but as long as we're not punishing people then I don't mind all that much.
01:14:46 <JorrelFraajic> "All active Talk Pages should have a {{talkheader}}. Please do not create a Talk Page solely to add {{Talkheader}}"
01:14:52 <Supreme_Emperor> And this was clearly the whole purpose of the proposal, to mess with Floyd
01:14:54 <ProfessorTofty> Obviously, most new users in particular  would likely not include it. Just add it if you see it's not there, same as we do now sometimres.
01:14:55 <Cade> Riff: That's another topic that can be looked at later.
01:14:55 <Supreme_Emperor> :P
01:15:04 <Cade> Per Tofty. Let's vote.
01:15:05 <SimToprawa> Per Tofty
01:15:07 <SimToprawa> per Cade
01:15:10 <Riffsyphon1024> Otherwise I support this instruction creep.
01:15:11 <IFYLOFD> Yes.
01:15:13 <IFYLOFD> Vote time.
01:15:20 <FeNite> The "active" part could be confusing if no one has edited in awhile
01:15:25 <Zuko> per Jorrel, i agree ^^
01:15:26 <SimToprawa> oh my gosh
01:15:28 <SimToprawa> This isn't that complicated
01:15:30 <IFYLOFD> #startvote Should active talk pages be required to have {{Talkheader}}? Yes, No, Abstain
01:15:30 <Nuku-Nuku> Begin voting on: Should active talk pages be required to have {{Talkheader}}? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain.
01:15:30 <Nuku-Nuku> Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
01:15:34 <dogma> #vote yes
01:15:34 <Riffsyphon1024> #vote Yes
01:15:34 <Supreme_Emperor> #vote yes
01:15:35 <ProfessorTofty> #vote yes
01:15:35 <FeNite> #vote yes
01:15:35 <grunny> #vote yes
01:15:35 <SimToprawa> #vote Yes
01:15:37 <Trip391> #vote yes
01:15:38 <CorellianPremier> #vote yes
01:15:39 <Brandon_Rhea> #vote Yes
01:15:40 <Zuko> #vote Yes
01:15:41 <IFYLOFD> #vote yes
01:15:41 <SirCavalier> #vote yes
01:15:41 <exiledjedi> #vote yes
01:15:41 <Ayrehead02> #vote yes
01:15:45 <JorrelFraajic> All blue-linked talk pages get talkheader, period.
01:15:47 <JorrelFraajic> #vote yes
01:15:53 <Culator|Away> #vote yes
01:16:01 <Lord_Oblivion> #vote yes
01:16:10 <FeNite> per jorrel
01:16:11 <Brandon_Rhea> (Just don't use terms like "blue linked" in policy because that's only a Monobook thing.)
01:16:20 <IFYLOFD> Closing in five
01:16:29 <Trip391> A talk page with only {{Talkheader}} and {{X project}} is unnecessary
01:16:31 <IFYLOFD> #endvote
01:16:31 <Nuku-Nuku> Voted on "Should active talk pages be required to have {{Talkheader}}?" Results are
01:16:31 <Nuku-Nuku> Yes (18): Culator|Away, Supreme_Emperor, Trip391, SirCavalier, FeNite, Lord_Oblivion, SimToprawa, ProfessorTofty, Riffsyphon1024, IFYLOFD, dogma, exiledjedi, grunny, CorellianPremier, Ayrehead02, Brandon_Rhea, JorrelFraajic, Zuko
01:16:47 <IFYLOFD> Active talk pages are now required to have {{Talkheader}}.
01:16:50 <IFYLOFD> Tope, part 2?
01:16:53 <SimToprawa> PART 2
01:17:04 <IFYLOFD> PART THE SECOND.
01:17:38 <SimToprawa> !ping
01:17:38 <Nuku-Nuku> pong
01:17:41 <SimToprawa> Did the site just die?
01:17:45 <SimToprawa> I want to link to the Talk page policy
01:17:48 <SimToprawa> It won't load
01:18:02 <Cade> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:TALK
01:18:07 <Cade> Loading for me.
01:18:09 <IFYLOFD> Me too
01:18:15 <SirCavalier> And me
01:18:16 <SimToprawa> It's not loading for me
01:18:19 <SimToprawa> Well
01:18:19 <exiledjedi> I'm loading the site.
01:18:20 <Riffsyphon1024> Loaded.
01:18:22 <SimToprawa> I'll try to wing this
01:18:32 <SimToprawa> I don't what clause I want to stick this to exactly because I can't see the page, buuuut
01:18:36 <SimToprawa> don't know*
01:18:51 <Cade> Give me a sec
01:18:53 <SimToprawa> We have this situation that arises occasionally where some new person wants to remove the Welcome template from their talk page
01:19:08 <SimToprawa> Then some overbearing user reverts them and warns them about removing content from their talk page
01:19:17 <Culator|Away> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Talk_page_policy
01:19:22 <SimToprawa> It's just a stupid, petty little thing to aggravate new people over
01:19:23 <Culator|Away> Try that.
01:19:41 <SimToprawa> I want to make an exception for removing talk page content that allows users to remove the Welcome template if they want
01:19:44 <SimToprawa> Still won't load
01:19:53 <Culator|Away> Then you have problems.
01:20:06 <SimToprawa> We can come up with some acceptable wording for this proposal. It's pretty simple.
01:20:07 <SimToprawa> Go.
01:20:14 <IFYLOFD> Floor is open.
01:20:15 <JorrelFraajic> It's entry 4, Tope.
01:20:17 <JorrelFraajic> It's entry 4, Tope.
01:20:35 <JorrelFraajic> I like it.
01:20:39 <ProfessorTofty> If they're trying to remove it,  then that means they've seen it, and perhaps even read it. That's a good thing. I say yes.
01:20:44 <Riffsyphon1024> Well we don't want to scare away users for simple crap like that.
01:20:48 <Culator|Away> WP:OBVIOUS
01:20:54 <Culator|Away> WP:DONTBEADOUCHE
01:21:03 <Brandon_Rhea> Agreed x10000
01:21:08 <Cade> Per Culator :P
01:21:10 <Supreme_Emperor> Yes
01:21:16 <IFYLOFD> Yeah-huh
01:21:22 <Riffsyphon1024> But they should still refrain from blanking comments on their talk page.
01:21:28 <IFYLOFD> Of course.
01:21:32 <JorrelFraajic> Of course. That's not covered in this though.
01:21:33 <Supreme_Emperor> Obviously
01:21:35 <SimToprawa> That's not even the issue, but yes
01:21:53 <Riffsyphon1024> Yes, just the Super Happy Friendly Welcome banner
01:21:58 <IFYLOFD> We all seem to be in agreement.
01:21:59 <JorrelFraajic> Removal of the contents of {{W}} are permissible.
01:22:00 <Culator|Away> So under item 4, which is "Under the following limited criteria only, comments may be removed without being archived:"
01:22:09 <SimToprawa> What Jorrel said
01:22:11 <SimToprawa> Just add that
01:22:12 <Culator|Away> I like Jorrel's, but
01:22:36 <Culator|Away> add "with the assumption that the user has read and understood the information contained therein."
01:22:36 <IFYLOFD> I'm fine with what Jorrel proposes.
01:22:50 <Culator|Away> NO EXCUSES
01:22:58 <Supreme_Emperor> I like Jorrel's
01:23:09 <ProfessorTofty> Same here. Jorrel's.
01:23:11 <Brandon_Rhea> I feel like that "with the assumption" bit should go without saying and doesn't need to be codified.
01:23:13 <Riffsyphon1024> No proof given that anyone has read theirs.
01:23:14 <Brandon_Rhea> I like Jorrel's.
01:23:15 <JorrelFraajic> Removal of the contents of {{W}} IS permissible.*
01:23:16 <Supreme_Emperor> Lets vote
01:23:19 <IFYLOFD> Yes.
01:23:21 <IFYLOFD> Let's vote.
01:23:29 <JorrelFraajic> I self-corrected!
01:23:38 <Culator|Away> Brandon, never assume something goes without saying.
01:23:45 <IFYLOFD> #startvote Should we codify that removal of {{W}} is allowed? Yes, No, Abstain
01:23:45 <Nuku-Nuku> Begin voting on: Should we codify that removal of {{W}} is allowed? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain.
01:23:45 <Nuku-Nuku> Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
01:23:46 <JorrelFraajic> #vote Yes
01:23:47 <FeNite> #vote yes
01:23:47 <Trip391> #vote yes
01:23:47 <Cade> #vote Yes
01:23:48 <Culator|Away> Why?
01:23:48 <Riffsyphon1024> #Vote Yes.
01:23:48 <Nuku-Nuku> Riffsyphon1024: Yes. is not a valid option. Valid options are Yes, No, Abstain.
01:23:50 <grunny> #vote yes
01:23:50 <IFYLOFD> #vote Yes
01:23:53 <Supreme_Emperor> #vote yes
01:23:54 <Ayrehead02> #vote yes
01:23:54 <ProfessorTofty> #vote yes
01:23:54 <Riffsyphon1024> oops.
01:23:55 <Culator|Away> !why
01:23:55 <Nuku-Nuku> Because people are stupid.
01:23:55 <Zuko> #vote Yes
01:23:56 <SirCavalier> #vote yes
01:23:57 <Brandon_Rhea> #vote Yes
01:23:58 <Riffsyphon1024> #vote Yes.
01:23:58 <Nuku-Nuku> Riffsyphon1024: Yes. is not a valid option. Valid options are Yes, No, Abstain.
01:23:59 <Lord_Oblivion> #vote yes
01:23:59 <CorellianPremier> #vote yes
01:24:04 <dogma> #vote yes
01:24:06 <JorrelFraajic> No period, Riffs
01:24:06 <Brandon_Rhea> Riff, remove the period.
01:24:10 <Riffsyphon1024> #vote Yes
01:24:20 <Culator|Away> #vote yes
01:24:21 <Riffsyphon1024> Sorry.
01:24:26 <exiledjedi> #vote yes
01:24:33 <IFYLOFD> Closing in five.
01:24:40 <IFYLOFD> #endvote
01:24:40 <Nuku-Nuku> Voted on "Should we codify that removal of {{W}} is allowed?" Results are
01:24:40 <Nuku-Nuku> Yes (18): CorellianPremier, Culator|Away, Supreme_Emperor, Trip391, Ayrehead02, FeNite, SirCavalier, Riffsyphon1024, ProfessorTofty, Lord_Oblivion, IFYLOFD, dogma, exiledjedi, grunny, Cade, Brandon_Rhea, JorrelFraajic, Zuko
01:24:49 <IFYLOFD> Removal of {{W}} is allowed.
01:24:49 <Cade> Floor is now closed.
01:24:55 <IFYLOFD> Next item.
01:24:58 <IFYLOFD> EJ, you have the floor.
01:25:15 <exiledjedi> All right, this will take a little bit, so please bear with me.
01:26:11 <exiledjedi> This proposal regards putting an end to the article-nominating sprees known as barn-burners.
01:26:45 <exiledjedi> The reason for this is simple: They generate a large number of low-quality articles in a short period of time.
01:27:15 <exiledjedi> As a member of the article review boards, I have noticed a large number of articles from these events that have had issues.
01:27:57 <exiledjedi> People will just write a huge pile of articles at once, and any errors that they make will be repeated throughout all of the articles.
01:28:08 <exiledjedi> We should not be encouraging this.
01:28:52 <exiledjedi> Barn-burners are a problem since they place the focus on quantity, rather than on producing quality articles.
01:30:16 <exiledjedi> This contrasts with the Wookiee Projects, which do not focus solely on nominating articles, but rather on improving the quality of articles related to a subject.
01:30:32 <exiledjedi> This is my proposal:
01:30:54 <exiledjedi> "Projects whose sole aim is to nominate as many articles as possible are prohibited, whereas projects that aim to improve Wookieepedia's coverage are encouraged."
01:31:07 <exiledjedi> That's all, Floyd.
01:31:10 <IFYLOFD> OK.
01:31:13 <IFYLOFD> Floor is open
01:31:20 <Cade> Agreed.
01:31:22 <Brandon_Rhea> I disagree for three reasons. One, the distinction between official and unofficial is very thin, and this does doesn't (nor could it) prevent unofficial ones. Two, there doesn’t appear to be official ones anymore anyway. Those two raise the question of what this rule would actually accomplish. And finally, point three is that, despite the fact that the quality of Barn Burner noms may be...
01:31:24 <Brandon_Rhea> ...somewhat lacking, it's clear that the FA nominations have slowed down significantly (both in terms of number of nominations and Inqs actually reviewing them) so I don't think a policy that would discourage nominations is wise.
01:31:25 <IFYLOFD> I personally hate barn-burners with my life and want them to die.
01:31:26 <Supreme_Emperor> I 110% agree with this
01:31:37 <SimToprawa> One of the biggest negative effects of this is for new people, who are drawn to these things as a way to get quick recognition on the site.
01:31:43 <SimToprawa> It's a terrible way for them to learn the proper way to write an article
01:31:45 <Cade> The point of the nomination limits is the exact opposite of barn-burners.
01:31:46 <Ayrehead02> Per Brandon
01:31:48 <Riffsyphon1024> Err... I think both serve their purpose.
01:31:51 <SimToprawa> Barn burners emphasize quantity over quality
01:31:53 <Cade> ^
01:32:02 <Cade> And they clog the nomination pages with low-quality noms.
01:32:11 <Supreme_Emperor> Barn burners were one of the reasons I supported the nomination limit on the CAN
01:32:17 <IFYLOFD> If a few users want to get together and say "Hey, let's write some Rodian articles!" we can't stop them
01:32:18 <ProfessorTofty> I'm not really familiar with these anyway. Wasn't the last one early last year. Like Brandon said, they don't really seem to be dsomething that's even happening anymore anyway.
01:32:22 <SimToprawa> They're nice in theory, but we've seen from years of evidence that they don't work well
01:32:23 <Supreme_Emperor> We were flooded with tons of low quality noms
01:32:28 <Ayrehead02> I think if we're clearer in the wording of future burners and more careful with reviews this won't be an issue
01:32:30 <IFYLOFD> But we're not going to have any official ones anymore
01:32:31 <Brandon_Rhea> But if people just organize together and start writing nominations like crazy, and they don't violate the limits, can you really prevent that? Does this proposed policy actually accomplish anything?
01:32:48 <Ayrehead02> And with the limits on CAN people can only flood four at a time
01:32:49 <SimToprawa> No one is preventing focused article projects.
01:32:50 <Cade> Please be aware of EJ's experience in this matter, guys
01:32:56 <Brandon_Rhea> It seems unnecessary to prohibit official ones when a) they don't happen anymore anyway and b) unofficial ones are easy to create anyway.
01:33:03 <Cade> He's been going through all of the old CAs, and is finding all of the issues there
01:33:10 <SimToprawa> We're targeting initiatives that focus solely on creating as many nominations in as short a time as possible
01:33:13 <Brandon_Rhea> I'm not doubting his experience. I'm doubting the effectiveness of the proposed solution for the stated problem.
01:33:19 <SimToprawa> Barn burners are expressly designed to last 1-2 months
01:33:25 <SimToprawa> So nominate as many as you can in 1-2 months
01:33:28 <Cade> Do you agree with the problem, though?
01:33:28 <SimToprawa> It's really rather silly
01:33:29 <Supreme_Emperor> As EJ said in the proposal, "Projects whose sole aim is to nominate as many articles as possible"
01:33:36 <JorrelFraajic> I feel like the nomination limits already tackle this issue.
01:33:45 <FeNite> I think having a barnburner every few months is a mistake. But I do think they are good. What about the dozens of articles that would have never reached status without them? To me the boards being flooded seems like a way to overlook the good things that come from this.
01:33:52 <Brandon_Rhea> Cade - I agree that the problem has existed in the past. But in my year being active here, I don't recall ever seeing a Barn Burner.
01:34:00 <JorrelFraajic> Nor have I
01:34:01 <exiledjedi> This isn't about the boards being flooded.
01:34:03 <Cade> Because we've been actively discouraging them.
01:34:14 <SimToprawa> Per Cade
01:34:16 <exiledjedi> It is about people writing articles without including all of the related information.
01:34:17 <JorrelFraajic> The active discouragement seems to be sufficient, then.
01:34:17 <ProfessorTofty> Well, it seems to have worked.
01:34:18 <Riffsyphon1024> As long as we still have interest in making quality articles, regardless of the method, I am for it. I can't really come down on banning the Barn Burner from existing ever.
01:34:20 <SimToprawa> We've pretty much talked people out of doing them
01:34:24 <ProfessorTofty> Is there a worry that it's going to stop working?
01:34:24 <SimToprawa> This is the next logical step
01:34:29 <Brandon_Rhea> If that's the case then a policy is unnecessary, IMO.
01:34:31 <Supreme_Emperor> This is about projects who's sole aim is to nominate as many articles as possible, regardless of quality
01:34:44 <SimToprawa> The policy is necessary for someone who wants to be an abrasive dick
01:34:50 <SimToprawa> I'm not singling out Menkooroo, but someone like him
01:35:03 <Supreme_Emperor> Projects like that are always a bad idea IMO. The focus should be on quality, not sheer quantity
01:35:10 <Brandon_Rhea> I haven't seen that. I understand the desire to prevent that, but it feels like we're proposing a solution for an older problem.
01:35:10 <JorrelFraajic> Per Brandon. Again, I feel like the nomination limits already prevent the issue without specifically being tailored to the issue.
01:35:19 <SimToprawa> Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't there, Brandon
01:35:23 <SimToprawa> We've seen it
01:35:27 <exiledjedi> We had limits and we still had issues.
01:35:27 <Riffsyphon1024> Why did so many cruddy articles pass review for BB anyway?
01:35:33 <Brandon_Rhea> It /has/ been there, is more my point. Emphasis on /had/
01:35:36 <Brandon_Rhea> *has
01:35:45 <exiledjedi> Peoplew will write 10+ articles at once and then place them on the page.
01:35:54 <SimToprawa> Had doesn't mean it won't happen again
01:35:57 <SimToprawa> That's the point
01:36:04 <FeNite> I would rather see a limit on the number and frequency barnburners than ban them
01:36:05 <Ayrehead02> But that can't happen now that there's limit on CAN
01:36:09 <Culator|Away> We need to prepare for the future. There has been an awakening.
01:36:11 <exiledjedi> Sure it can.
01:36:12 <Ayrehead02> Per FeNite
01:36:12 <Cade> Because when the review pages are flooded, it's almost a certainty that things will slip by because the reviewers are overworked.
01:36:16 <IFYLOFD> It happened even when there were limits
01:36:23 <JorrelFraajic> Can it just be summed up as "No more officially-sanctioned Barn Burners"?
01:36:30 <Riffsyphon1024> Per FeNite
01:36:43 <exiledjedi> Jorrel: Pretty much.
01:36:44 <JorrelFraajic> it being this policy
01:37:07 <IFYLOFD> OK, let's go to a vote.
01:37:08 <SimToprawa> No one is preventing people from creating improvement drives of WookieeProjects.
01:37:10 <Cade> Do we have a CAN limit again?
01:37:10 <Brandon_Rhea> I think "officially sanctioned" makes it a weaker policy.
01:37:11 <SimToprawa> These things already exist, people.
01:37:21 <SimToprawa> drives or WookieeProjects*
01:37:21 <Supreme_Emperor> Limit is four Cade
01:37:24 <Brandon_Rhea> If the desire is to prevent this type of thing, then the policy should prevent it completely.
01:37:27 <Cade> Good.
01:37:29 <Brandon_Rhea> Official or otherwise.
01:37:39 <JorrelFraajic> The policy isn't really outright stopping anything, if that's the case.
01:37:45 <SimToprawa> Yes, it is
01:37:59 <IFYLOFD> Everyone
01:38:03 <Brandon_Rhea> "Officially sanctioned" is what doesn't stop anything, IMO. Going all the way is how to stop this problem if it happens.
01:38:05 <IFYLOFD> We're voting now.
01:38:06 <Cade> All of the past barnburners have been "sanctioned".
01:38:07 <JorrelFraajic> You could do the same thing by depreciating the old page without forming a policy.
01:38:08 <SimToprawa> It's specifically stopping these temporary projects that expressly last for a few weeks at a time designed to churn out as many noms as possible in as little time as possible
01:38:12 <SimToprawa> Why is this difficult to understand?
01:38:14 <Cade> Floyd, we're not ready :p
01:38:19 <IFYLOFD> Evidently not.
01:38:30 <JorrelFraajic> Because I don't see why a policy is necessary to do that.
01:38:45 <JorrelFraajic> This is my difficulty. I don't know about others.
01:38:46 <SimToprawa> Because I were to stop the next barnburner unilaterally, someone would have a hissy fit
01:38:51 <Cade> ^
01:38:53 <Riffsyphon1024> I want to remain open to the option to have short term improvement drives that may not be WookieeProjects or Barn Burners.
01:38:54 <SimToprawa> So we need to create rules to wave in people's faces
01:38:58 <SimToprawa> That's why we create rules, Jorrel
01:39:07 <Ayrehead02> Per Riff
01:39:18 <SimToprawa> Riff, for fuck's sake
01:39:21 <SimToprawa> I've said this *three rimes*
01:39:23 <SimToprawa> times*
01:39:27 <SimToprawa> No one is preventing improvement drives.
01:39:29 <Riffsyphon1024> Don't get upset, Tope.
01:39:37 <SimToprawa> Then read and comprehend comments.
01:39:39 <exiledjedi> This is about a very specific area.
01:39:43 <exiledjedi> Barn-burners
01:39:47 <exiledjedi> Not anything else.
01:39:51 <exiledjedi> Just barn-burners
01:40:01 <FeNite> I just hate to overlook the good things that have come from barnburners
01:40:15 <SimToprawa> The good has been outweighed by the bad, though
01:40:21 <Cade> If someone wants to do something like http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Cade_Calrayn/Project_Hero then they are �more� than welcome to
01:40:33 <Cade> This and WookieeProjects are encouraged
01:40:37 <SimToprawa> ^Yes
01:40:43 <SimToprawa> A million times per Cade
01:40:46 <SimToprawa> WookieeProjects exist
01:40:48 <SimToprawa> Use them.
01:40:57 <Riffsyphon1024> Then let's kick WookieeProjects back into gear like we should be
01:40:57 <SimToprawa> Barn burners create problems by their temporary nature.
01:41:11 <SimToprawa> Go create new WookieeProjects, then
01:41:17 <Riffsyphon1024> And then we'll have WP: TFA
01:41:26 <IFYLOFD> If you want to do that, Riff, go ahead
01:41:38 <IFYLOFD> Don't chirp from the sidelines
01:41:47 <IFYLOFD> OK, are we ready for a vote?
01:41:50 <Riffsyphon1024> I'm obviously afraid of the sheer amount of material, but sure!
01:42:03 <JorrelFraajic> It appears so.
01:42:08 <IFYLOFD> I'll take the silence as a yes.
01:42:23 <IFYLOFD> #startvote Should barn-burners DIE? Yes, No, Abstain
01:42:23 <Nuku-Nuku> Begin voting on: Should barn-burners DIE? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain.
01:42:23 <Nuku-Nuku> Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
01:42:25 <Cade> #vote Yes
01:42:25 <Trip391> #vote yes
01:42:26 <Brandon_Rhea> #vote Yes
01:42:26 <FeNite> #vote no
01:42:27 <Ayrehead02> #vote no
01:42:27 <Supreme_Emperor> #vote yes
01:42:28 <Culator|Away> #vote yes
01:42:28 <SimToprawa> #vote Yes
01:42:28 <exiledjedi> #vote yes
01:42:29 <IFYLOFD> #vote Yes
01:42:29 <ProfessorTofty> #vote abstain
01:42:33 <JorrelFraajic> #vote Yes
01:42:35 <Zuko> #vote Yes
01:42:35 <dogma> #vote abstain
01:42:36 <Riffsyphon1024> #Vote Abstain
01:42:37 <SirCavalier> #vote yes
01:42:39 <CorellianPremier> #vote yes
01:42:42 <grunny> #vote yes
01:43:00 <IFYLOFD> Closing vote in five.
01:43:08 <IFYLOFD> #endvote
01:43:08 <Nuku-Nuku> Voted on "Should barn-burners DIE?" Results are
01:43:08 <Nuku-Nuku> Yes (13): CorellianPremier, Culator|Away, Supreme_Emperor, Trip391, SirCavalier, grunny, SimToprawa, IFYLOFD, exiledjedi, Cade, Brandon_Rhea, JorrelFraajic, Zuko
01:43:08 <Nuku-Nuku> Abstain (3): dogma, ProfessorTofty, Riffsyphon1024
01:43:08 <Nuku-Nuku> No (2): Ayrehead02, FeNite
01:43:12 <IFYLOFD> Barn-burners
01:43:14 <IFYLOFD> DEAD
01:43:23 <IFYLOFD> Item 8.
01:43:23 <Cade> Floor is now closed.
01:43:26 <IFYLOFD> Tope, you have the floor.
01:43:30 <SimToprawa> I do?
01:43:32 <SimToprawa> I do.
01:43:36 <SimToprawa> Ah, yes
01:43:52 <SimToprawa> Well, I can't open this because I'm having problems, but this. starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:CT_Archive/Atlas_and_systems
01:43:58 <SimToprawa> eh
01:44:00 <SimToprawa> can someone link me
01:44:06 <IFYLOFD> policy
01:44:09 <IFYLOFD> buhh
01:44:14 <IFYLOFD> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:CT_Archive/Atlas_and_systems
01:44:16 <SimToprawa> Thank you
01:44:51 <SimToprawa> Long story short, we agreed to add the Conjecture template to systems named in the Atlas because Jason Fry said they weren't necessarily exact system names, and we were waiting to see if future sources cleared this up at all
01:44:58 <SimToprawa> Well, then Legends happened
01:45:05 <SimToprawa> So now we're stuck with these Atlas systems.
01:45:24 <SimToprawa> Unless there's a case of contradiction, there's really no reason to use Conjecture on most of these anymore
01:45:37 <SimToprawa> The source calls them that, nothing is going to change this in Legends, so that's their name
01:46:06 <SimToprawa> I'm proposing we add the following statement to the Notability policy, which will revise this previous CT:
01:46:15 <SimToprawa> Articles shall be created for all star systems named in The Essential Atlas and the Star Wars: The Essential Atlas Online Companion. However, articles on systems listed in the Online Companion that were referenced in no other Star Wars Legends source material, excepting the Atlas itself, are to include the Conjecture tag. According to Atlas co-author Jason Fry, systems in the Online...
01:46:17 <SimToprawa> ...Companion were named according to well-known celestial objects at those locations and were not meant to be proper system names or override preexisting system names. Preexisting systems listed in the Online Companion are to be redirected to the proper system article they are intending to reference (example: Rodia system is redirected to Tyrius system).
01:46:19 <SimToprawa> Go.
01:46:33 <IFYLOFD> Floor, open.
01:46:35 <Cade> Agreed.
01:46:43 <Supreme_Emperor> ^
01:46:55 <IFYLOFD> Yeah, to hell with it. Let's just do this
01:47:09 <Cade> Hk 47 will be happy
01:47:21 <Culator|Away> "nothing is going to change this" That's defeatist talk.
01:47:24 <Culator|Away> LEGENDS FOREVER
01:47:28 <SimToprawa> Well, I'm being realistic :P
01:47:30 <JorrelFraajic> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Azzameen_Station_system - So this /should/ now have the {{Conjecture}} tag?
01:47:31 <SimToprawa> You can be optimistic :P
01:47:43 <SimToprawa> I can't open that, Jorrel :P
01:47:45 <SimToprawa> Sorry :P
01:47:57 <SimToprawa> I might be able to if I log in and out
01:48:02 <SimToprawa> I might get kicked out here, so brb if so
01:48:09 <ProfessorTofty> Tope - I think what Jorrel is getting at is that what you posted above says "*are* ot include the Conjecture tag."
01:48:11 <JorrelFraajic> It's only named as such in the Atlas, to clarify my question.
01:48:35 <IFYLOFD> If I'm not mistaken, that wouldn't have Conjecture
01:48:39 <Cade> I think the point of contention/confusion is the term "referenced"
01:48:57 <Cade> Does that mean it was first named or first/only mentioned?
01:49:13 <Cade> *"referenced in no other...."
01:49:21 <SimToprawa> I'm sorry, guys
01:49:25 <Riffsyphon1024> Canon articles will have the correct names. It's just knowing where to link the Legend counterpart to.
01:49:26 <SimToprawa> I don't know what the hell is wrong with my Internet
01:49:29 <SimToprawa> I can't open up a webpage
01:49:34 <JorrelFraajic> Try IE
01:49:41 <JorrelFraajic> :P
01:49:51 <Cade> Try a phone.
01:50:04 <Brandon_Rhea> Use the app! :D
01:50:20 <FeNite> lol
01:50:28 <Cade> Bah. I need to resume my tweaking that.
01:50:31 <SimToprawa> !ping
01:50:31 <Nuku-Nuku> pong
01:51:20 <Riffsyphon1024> I understand most of these are still Legends, but that is shifting slowly in favor of Canon. If the Legends names don't appear elsewhere, I still believe we should use the {{conjecture}}
01:51:24 <SimToprawa> I'm turning another laptop on
01:51:27 <SimToprawa> Give me a few minutes
01:51:32 <SimToprawa> If you want to move on to the next item, Floyd, that's ok
01:51:33 <Cade> �This has nothing to do with Canon/Legends�
01:51:35 <IFYLOFD> OK
01:51:38 <IFYLOFD> Let's skip this for now
01:51:48 <IFYLOFD> Item 9
01:51:55 <IFYLOFD> Culator, you have the floor
01:52:04 <Culator|Away> YES
01:52:37 <Culator|Away> I've been wanting to do something like this for some time now. Basically, it's another baby step toward a coherent notability policy.
01:53:21 <Culator|Away> We generally delete articles that are just real-world dictionary definitions, after a lot of hemming and hawing and bureaucratic mess. This will streamline that. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Darth_Culator/TEHMORFFRENCE
01:54:15 <Culator|Away> Should be self-explanatory. Gives specific examples of what IS a good simple dictionary-like article and what is NOT.
01:54:52 <Culator|Away> Floor open for discussion now, Floyd.
01:54:55 <IFYLOFD> OK
01:54:59 <IFYLOFD> Floor is open
01:55:09 <JorrelFraajic> I was worried about implementation but you already covered that.
01:55:12 <Cade> *sigh* Pickle
01:55:14 <Brandon_Rhea> Sounds good to me.
01:55:31 <FeNite> #hyperinclusion (im joking)
01:55:34 <ProfessorTofty> Me too. Should save time and hassle.
01:55:41 <Supreme_Emperor> Seems logical
01:55:46 <Riffsyphon1024> So we can cite WP:DICT and *boom* the pants article is gone?
01:55:46 <Cade> Hmmm.
01:55:53 <JorrelFraajic> That said, is there a method to dispute this?
01:56:29 <ProfessorTofty> I don't think it should be applied to existing articles.
01:56:30 <Culator|Away> To begin, we'll be TCing eligible articles, after that, speedy always has a counter-speedy template at {{Holdon}}
01:56:31 <SirCavalier> One would assume that the creation of an article with specific SW-related content would do that anyway.
01:56:32 <JorrelFraajic> Like, if a speedy deletion is done, can it be disputed in a specific area? There's been a few dictionary articles that hit flak on the TC for different reasons.
01:56:46 <JorrelFraajic> Ah, I didn't remember {{Holdon}}
01:56:48 <IFYLOFD> So do you intend this to be the final wording that goes in the policy?
01:56:48 <Brandon_Rhea> So, at the risk of re-opening this can of worms, I'm actually going to oppose this as long as [[breast]] is one of the stated examples. That is not something we should be drawing more attention to. There are plenty of better examples, I'm sure.
01:56:49 <Riffsyphon1024> I don't like this form of mass deletionism without TC discussion.
01:56:58 <IFYLOFD> And agreed with Brandon
01:56:59 <exiledjedi> Culator, where would stuff like general and soldier fall on the policy?
01:56:59 <Riffsyphon1024> Per Rhea.
01:57:00 <Cade> True, per Brandon.
01:57:21 <SirCavalier> Yes, I would remove any mention of breasts from the page.
01:57:26 <exiledjedi> Per Cav.
01:57:30 <IFYLOFD> It's needless
01:57:32 <JorrelFraajic> Per Brandon. No need to poke a beast just for the sake of poking a beast.
01:57:33 <Supreme_Emperor> ^
01:57:41 <Culator|Away> exiledjedi: They'd probably have enough in-universe notability with the specific ranks, but we may want to TC them to see where they come out.
01:57:44 <Cade> *me read that as poke a breast
01:57:47 <IFYLOFD> ha
01:57:50 <Riffsyphon1024> lol
01:57:52 * JorrelFraajic knew someone would
01:57:58 * JorrelFraajic grins evilly
01:58:00 <Culator|Away> And breast was included specifically to counter the use of this policy to try to delete it.
01:58:15 <Cade> Ehhhh....
01:58:17 <Riffsyphon1024> We've already had that discussion though.
01:58:22 <IFYLOFD> I don't think that's necessary
01:58:23 <Cade> We have.
01:58:25 <Supreme_Emperor> Not a good idea imo :P
01:58:26 <ProfessorTofty> If we exclude existing articles, that shouldn't be a problem.
01:58:26 <JorrelFraajic> You could do that without putting it in the actually policy.
01:58:30 <Brandon_Rhea> Not necessary at all.
01:58:38 <SirCavalier> If the definition is exact enough in the wording, using it as an example is unneeded
01:58:47 <Cade> If it comes to that, Culator, just use the exact example you have right now
01:58:54 <exiledjedi> Excluding existing articles?
01:58:55 <Cade> Trees, fish, and reptiles.
01:59:00 <Riffsyphon1024> We don't need to speedy things we feel don't belong in the galaxy if they can be shown to have notable differences or characteristics about them.
01:59:41 <SimToprawa> YAY
01:59:42 <SimToprawa> I'm back
01:59:53 <FeNite> welcome back
01:59:54 <IFYLOFD> No shit, Riff
01:59:57 <Cade> Tope: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Darth_Culator/TEHMORFFRENCE
01:59:59 <SimToprawa> Thank you
02:00:04 * Cade nods
02:00:19 <SimToprawa> To both :P
02:00:24 <SimToprawa> I just want to clarify here
02:00:29 <Brandon_Rhea> The shirt example is good enough. It doesn't need the breast example.
02:00:30 <SimToprawa> Culator has probably explained this
02:01:03 <SimToprawa> Under this policy, existing articles of tenuous merit will be TC'd, nod just CSD'd, whereas newly created articles can just be speedied? That is the purpose here?
02:01:12 <Brandon_Rhea> I believe so
02:01:16 <JorrelFraajic> That's what it says on Implementation, yes.
02:01:17 <Culator|Away> Yes.
02:01:21 <SimToprawa> Ok
02:01:35 <FeNite> agree with that
02:01:36 <IFYLOFD> Yes
02:01:37 <JorrelFraajic> Which was an issue I was going to have with it, until he preemptively tackled it.
02:01:38 <IFYLOFD> OK
02:01:41 <Riffsyphon1024> "a standard round of mass-TCs for existing" but "new is speedy"
02:01:47 <Brandon_Rhea> And most of us are fine with this policy, but a number of us are objecting to the use of [[breast]] as an example because we don't need to call that out in a policy.
02:02:00 <Riffsyphon1024> I still feel uncomfortable about the new article speedy
02:02:02 <Brandon_Rhea> That draws unnecessary attention to it.
02:02:06 <Culator|Away> And you're missing the point.
02:02:06 <SimToprawa> I suspect it was an intentional mention to keep it from ever being deleted :P
02:02:11 <Culator|Away> Exactly.
02:02:16 <Brandon_Rhea> That's how it was explained, but it doesn't need to be included.
02:02:19 <Culator|Away> Yes it does.
02:02:29 <Brandon_Rhea> Can't speak for anyone else but I'll vote against this as long as it's called out in the policy. This is just a bad idea.
02:02:51 <IFYLOFD> Well, if you actually effectively wrote this rule, then you should be covered regardless of whether it's specifically mentioned
02:02:54 <Ayrehead02> Have a separate category for without breast or something
02:03:01 <Culator|Away> OK, we can have a second vote on removing the second example.
02:03:06 <IFYLOFD> That seems fair
02:03:12 <exiledjedi> Don't the previous TC results count towards that?
02:03:22 <Brandon_Rhea> No, let's include it in one. People should be accountable for supporting something like this.
02:03:36 <Cade> Let's have it in two votes, please.
02:03:43 <IFYLOFD> We're doing two
02:03:45 <IFYLOFD> First one
02:03:46 <JorrelFraajic> Switch the votes, though. Wording first, then policy.
02:03:51 <Brandon_Rhea> Agreed with Jorrel.
02:03:51 <Culator|Away> No, two, because you can't hold the policy hostage over your squeamishness.
02:03:56 <Culator|Away> Policy first.
02:03:59 <JorrelFraajic> So you don't vote for the policy before voting on the wording.
02:04:04 <IFYLOFD> We'll switch the votes.
02:04:08 <Cade> Guys, let Floyd decide.
02:04:14 <IFYLOFD> Wording first.
02:04:17 <JorrelFraajic> Let's vote on how we vote. :P
02:04:19 <IFYLOFD> Anyone [Redacted by administration] about it will be booted.
02:04:41 <IFYLOFD> #startvote Should we remove the breast example from the policy? Yes, No, Abstain
02:04:41 <Nuku-Nuku> Begin voting on: Should we remove the breast example from the policy? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain.
02:04:41 <Nuku-Nuku> Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
02:04:45 <ProfessorTofty> #vote yes
02:04:47 <Brandon_Rhea> #vote Yes
02:04:48 <Riffsyphon1024> #vote No
02:04:48 <FeNite> #vote yes
02:04:49 <IFYLOFD> #vote Yes
02:04:51 <JorrelFraajic> #vote Yes
02:04:51 <Ayrehead02> #vote yes
02:04:53 <Zuko> #vote yes
02:04:54 <Cade> #vote Yes
02:04:54 <SirCavalier> #vote yes
02:04:54 <Culator|Away> #vote no
02:04:55 <grunny> #vote yes
02:04:58 <Riffsyphon1024> Oops I mean
02:05:01 <Riffsyphon1024> #vote yes
02:05:05 <CorellianPremier> #vote yes
02:05:14 <Supreme_Emperor> #vote yes
02:05:30 <IFYLOFD> OK, closing in five
02:05:37 <IFYLOFD> #endvote
02:05:37 <Nuku-Nuku> Voted on "Should we remove the breast example from the policy?" Results are
02:05:37 <Nuku-Nuku> Yes (13): Ayrehead02, Zuko, SirCavalier, FeNite, grunny, ProfessorTofty, Supreme_Emperor, Riffsyphon1024, IFYLOFD, JorrelFraajic, Cade, Brandon_Rhea, CorellianPremier
02:05:37 <Nuku-Nuku> No (1): Culator|Away
02:05:40 <Culator|Away> [Redacted by administration]
02:05:48 <IFYLOFD> !boot Culator|Away
02:05:55 <IFYLOFD> Breast example removed.
02:06:00 <IFYLOFD> On to the second vote.
02:06:24 <IFYLOFD> #startvote Should we implement the proposed notability policy?
02:06:24 <Nuku-Nuku> Begin voting on: Should we implement the proposed notability policy? Valid vote options are Yes, No.
02:06:24 <Nuku-Nuku> Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
02:06:27 <Cade> #vote Yes
02:06:28 <IFYLOFD> fuck
02:06:30 <IFYLOFD> Wait
02:06:32 <IFYLOFD> #endvote
02:06:32 <Nuku-Nuku> Voted on "Should we implement the proposed notability policy?" Results are
02:06:36 <IFYLOFD> My bad :P
02:06:41 <IFYLOFD> #startvote Should we implement the proposed notability policy? Yes, No, Abstain
02:06:41 <Nuku-Nuku> Begin voting on: Should we implement the proposed notability policy? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain.
02:06:41 <Nuku-Nuku> Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
02:06:48 <Cade> #vote Yes
02:06:50 <Ayrehead02> #vote yes
02:06:52 <Brandon_Rhea> #vote Yes
02:06:52 <CorellianPremier> #vote yes
02:06:54 <Supreme_Emperor> #vote yes
02:06:55 <Zuko> #vote Abstain
02:06:55 <ProfessorTofty> #vote yes
02:06:56 <Riffsyphon1024> #vote no
02:06:57 <IFYLOFD> #vote yes
02:07:00 <grunny> #vote yes
02:07:03 <Trip391> #vote yes
02:07:03 <JorrelFraajic> #vote Yes
02:07:04 <SimToprawa> #vote Yes
02:07:05 <SirCavalier> #vote yes
02:07:09 <exiledjedi> #vote yes
02:07:11 <FeNite> #vote yes
02:07:19 <Culator|Away> #vote no
02:07:24 <Culator|Away> Not now that you neutered it.
02:07:36 <SimToprawa> Can I ask why Riff and Zuko abstained/voted no, for the record?
02:07:55 <Riffsyphon1024> I don't support speedy delete of articles that require such discussion.
02:08:06 <Cade> ^_^
02:08:14 <SimToprawa> Someone can always contest the CSD
02:08:16 <SimToprawa> Then it goes to TC anyway
02:08:21 <Riffsyphon1024> #hyperinclusion
02:08:35 <SimToprawa> Hyperinclusion? Do we still use that word in this century? :P
02:08:43 <Zuko> Becaue i didn't follow this one, i had do something :/
02:08:50 <IFYLOFD> Fair, fair.
02:08:54 <IFYLOFD> We're done.
02:08:56 <IFYLOFD> #endvote
02:08:56 <Nuku-Nuku> Voted on "Should we implement the proposed notability policy?" Results are
02:08:56 <Nuku-Nuku> Yes (14): Ayrehead02, Trip391, SirCavalier, FeNite, grunny, SimToprawa, ProfessorTofty, IFYLOFD, exiledjedi, Supreme_Emperor, Cade, Brandon_Rhea, JorrelFraajic, CorellianPremier
02:08:56 <Nuku-Nuku> Abstain (1): Zuko
02:08:56 <Nuku-Nuku> No (2): Culator|Away, Riffsyphon1024
02:09:07 <Cade> Floor is now closed.
02:09:10 <IFYLOFD> Notability policy passes, minus the breast example.
02:09:16 <IFYLOFD> Item 10
02:09:21 <IFYLOFD> Brandon, you have the floor
02:09:49 <SirCavalier> Except he's muted.
02:09:52 <SimToprawa> lolz
02:10:02 <IFYLOFD> Cade, you dope
02:10:04 <Cade> ^_^
02:10:11 <Cade> >_>
02:10:15 <Brandon_Rhea> This is a proposal to adopt a new spoiler template specific to The Force Awakens. This shouldn't /need/ a vote, but because Jonathan said one was needed, one was started, and we have no process in place to recall a CT.
02:10:35 <Brandon_Rhea> First I'd like to give credit to Tofty for spearheading this. I'm simply the one who put it on the agenda. Jorrel and I co-created the template.
02:10:46 <Brandon_Rhea> The template can be seen here, as can a more detailed explanation: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Brandon_Rhea/template2
02:11:42 <Brandon_Rhea> But essentially, in order to best help readers, we'd like to have a spoiler template for The Force Awakens. This is for *subjects unique to The Force Awakens*. An example being Kylo Ren. If Darth Sidious happens to be in The Force Awakens, we would still use {{Majorspoiler}}. Just seeing that there are The Force Awakens spoilers is a spoiler unto itself, and some people may not want to know...
02:11:44 <Brandon_Rhea> ...Sidious is in the movie.
02:12:06 <Brandon_Rhea> So if this is adopted, we'll add the wording from my template2 page into Wookieepedia:Spoilers. Its adoption will also shut down the CT, because it renders it irrelevant.
02:12:16 <Brandon_Rhea> I now give the floor to the peanut gallery.
02:12:23 <IFYLOFD> The floor, opened.
02:12:30 <Riffsyphon1024> Yes.
02:12:37 <IFYLOFD> CADE
02:12:40 <IFYLOFD> OPEN THE FLOOR YOU DOPE
02:12:46 <Cade> ^_^
02:12:48 <IFYLOFD> FINE I'LL DO IT MYSELF
02:12:48 <Cade> <_<
02:12:52 <JorrelFraajic> Dung is again offended.
02:12:52 <Supreme_Emperor> XD
02:12:59 <Cade> !kick Jorrel Silence, wench
02:13:00 <Nuku-Nuku> Cade: Error: Jorrel is not in #wookieepedia.
02:13:04 <Cade> Fuck
02:13:06 <Culator|Away> http://i.imgur.com/iYOXpB3.gif
02:13:28 <Culator|Away> I am a noted non-fan of poocanon, but I love a good template.
02:13:31 <Riffsyphon1024> This template is the most straight forward of the bunch. It makes it clear that there are TFA spoilers. It should exist. Period.
02:13:34 <Supreme_Emperor> On the topic of the spoiler template, it looks good
02:13:37 <Cade> I Support This Thing
02:13:39 <IFYLOFD> This template, it is good.
02:13:48 <ProfessorTofty> What Brandon said, really. I only started the TC because of the stated need. I'm ready to see this go.
02:13:56 <ProfessorTofty> And yes, full props to the template creators.
02:13:57 <Cade> And my opinion means more than Floyd, as I am He of the Template Things
02:13:57 <SirCavalier> Template does not burn eyes. Therefore all good.
02:14:05 <Riffsyphon1024> Per Cav as well.
02:14:05 <IFYLOFD> WONDERFUL
02:14:10 <IFYLOFD> We ready to vote?
02:14:21 <CorellianPremier> uh yep
02:14:22 <FeNite> its purdy
02:14:24 <ProfessorTofty> Yep.
02:14:25 <IFYLOFD> WE VOTIN
02:14:28 <Supreme_Emperor> Vote tiem
02:14:33 <IFYLOFD> #startvote Template good? Yes, No, Abstain
02:14:33 <Nuku-Nuku> Begin voting on: Template good? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain.
02:14:33 <Nuku-Nuku> Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
02:14:35 <Brandon_Rhea> #vote Yes
02:14:36 <Riffsyphon1024> #Vote Yes
02:14:37 <ProfessorTofty> #vote yes
02:14:37 <Cade> #vote Yes
02:14:39 <JorrelFraajic> #vote yes
02:14:40 <FeNite> #vote yes
02:14:41 <Supreme_Emperor> #vote yes
02:14:42 <SimToprawa> #vote Yes
02:14:42 <IFYLOFD> #vote Yes
02:14:43 <exiledjedi> #vote yes
02:14:44 <SirCavalier> #vote yes
02:14:45 <Ayrehead02> #vote yes
02:14:48 <CorellianPremier> #vote yes
02:15:02 <Riffsyphon1024> And we are done here.
02:15:04 <grunny> #vote yes
02:15:10 <mathieuarsenault> does any one know why i have the same Marvel volume 17 1978 comic book but the covers are a bit different ??????
02:15:24 <SimToprawa> Get this guy out of here
02:15:26 <ProfessorTofty> Don't we still have Tope's other thing to vote on?
02:15:30 <IFYLOFD> Not the time for this, mathieuarsenault. Come back later.
02:15:31 <Cade> Please join #wookieepedia-social, Mathieu
02:15:36 <IFYLOFD> !boot mathieuarsenault
02:15:39 <SimToprawa> Yeah, we can go back to mine
02:15:44 <IFYLOFD> #endvote
02:15:44 <Nuku-Nuku> Voted on "Template good?" Results are
02:15:44 <Nuku-Nuku> Yes (14): Supreme_Emperor, SirCavalier, FeNite, grunny, SimToprawa, ProfessorTofty, Riffsyphon1024, IFYLOFD, exiledjedi, JorrelFraajic, Cade, Ayrehead02, Brandon_Rhea, CorellianPremier
02:15:48 <IFYLOFD> Template good.
02:15:55 <Cade> Floor is now closed
02:15:59 <IFYLOFD> Back to Tope's thing.
02:16:03 <IFYLOFD> Tope, are you prepared to thing?
02:16:05 <SimToprawa> Yes
02:16:10 <SimToprawa> Ok, what were people's concerns?
02:16:13 <SimToprawa> Let's start there
02:16:17 <SimToprawa> de-mute, please
02:16:31 <IFYLOFD> You want to give people a refresher?
02:16:35 <SimToprawa> Nah :P
02:16:36 <JorrelFraajic> Was that about the systems thing?
02:16:43 <JorrelFraajic> My log doesn't go that far back :P
02:16:43 <IFYLOFD> Fair enough :P
02:16:43 <SimToprawa> This:
02:16:45 <SimToprawa> Articles shall be created for all star systems named in The Essential Atlas and the Star Wars: The Essential Atlas Online Companion. However, articles on systems listed in the Online Companion that were referenced in no other Star Wars Legends source material, excepting the Atlas itself, are to include the Conjecture tag. According to Atlas co-author Jason Fry, systems in the Online...
02:16:47 <SimToprawa> ...Companion were named according to well-known celestial objects at those locations and were not meant to be proper system names or override preexisting system names. Preexisting systems listed in the Online Companion are to be redirected to the proper system article they are intending to reference (example: Rodia system is redirected to Tyrius system).
02:16:53 <JorrelFraajic> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Azzameen_Station_system - This. Correct, or not correct?
02:16:54 <SimToprawa> Y U NO LIK
02:17:18 <SimToprawa> I say Correct
02:17:43 <SimToprawa> Feel free to disagree.
02:17:50 <IFYLOFD> Yes
02:17:56 <Riffsyphon1024> We just need to have the most up to date names for both Canon and Legends system articles, even as this affects Legends systems names for the most part.
02:17:58 <Culator|Away> "However, articles on systems listed in the Online Companion that were referenced in no other Star Wars Legends source material, excepting the Atlas itself, are to include the Conjecture tag."
02:18:09 <Cade> Riff: Again, �nothing� involving Canon/Legends
02:18:13 <Riffsyphon1024> I support the Conjecture tag.
02:18:13 <Cade> So stop bringing that up
02:18:15 <Culator|Away> This says articles ARE to include the tag.
02:18:23 <SirCavalier> Per Culator
02:18:25 <Culator|Away> This system was never named.
02:18:28 <JorrelFraajic> Got it.
02:18:32 <Culator|Away> It has no tag.
02:18:37 <Culator|Away> I are confusd.
02:18:40 <FeNite> ^
02:18:45 <SimToprawa> I'm confused too...
02:18:55 <SimToprawa> I'll admit I discussed this and wrote this up like six months ago then forgot about it
02:18:56 * Cade whacks Jorrel
02:19:01 <Riffsyphon1024> That article should have a conjecture tag.
02:19:01 <SimToprawa> EJ, help me remember what's going on here :P
02:19:05 <ProfessorTofty> So since it was never officially named, Fry's thing was never intended to be official, and we're likely never going to get clarficiation, that's why the Conjecture tag?
02:19:06 <IFYLOFD> buhhhh
02:19:35 <Riffsyphon1024> Or we rename it Star system (Azzameen Station)?
02:19:46 <SimToprawa> exiledjedi?
02:19:49 <exiledjedi> I thought this was about having articles for systems for stuff like Azzameen Station system.
02:19:55 <exiledjedi> Which we currently don't have.
02:20:03 <SimToprawa> Did we not create articles for all the Companion systems or something?
02:20:03 <exiledjedi> Mostly.
02:20:03 <JorrelFraajic> Except apparently we do.
02:20:05 <JorrelFraajic> :P
02:20:10 <exiledjedi> We did.
02:20:17 <Cade> I'll bet Hk 47 made an article for all of them
02:20:49 <exiledjedi> Basically, we ignored that CT.
02:21:05 <SirCavalier> So, as I understand it, is the proposal that we are now treating the names from the Atlas which were previously "conjectural name" as "official names"?
02:21:10 <FeNite> If they will never be clarified then there should not be a conjecture. Right? Wrong?
02:21:21 <exiledjedi> And I believe the intentions of this was to clarify the previous CT.
02:21:29 <Riffsyphon1024> Never use "never"
02:21:29 <SimToprawa> Yes, Cav, I think that's it :P
02:21:30 <JorrelFraajic> That's what I first read, but I was just told to put {{Conjecture}} on such an article.
02:21:32 <exiledjedi> *intention
02:21:43 <SimToprawa> I think the idea here was that these are their "official" names now, since no source is going to change that
02:21:44 <JorrelFraajic> UNLESS that's Atlas only, not online companion.
02:21:51 <SirCavalier> So, if that's the case, then your wording is off.
02:21:54 <JorrelFraajic> This is why I had a question.
02:22:04 <JorrelFraajic> Also why I'm glad I had an example.
02:22:07 <SirCavalier> "However, articles on systems listed in the Online Companion that were referenced in no other Star Wars Legends source material, excepting the Atlas itself, are to include the Conjecture tag."
02:22:08 <Riffsyphon1024> I would emphasize Atlas over Online Companion.
02:22:25 <SirCavalier> Online Companion is regularly updated.
02:22:28 <SirCavalier> It trumps the Atlas
02:22:35 <SimToprawa> Well, it's not really updated anymore
02:22:45 <SimToprawa> I think they're going to do a new Canon update or something
02:22:46 <SirCavalier> It includes more systems than the Atlas at any rate
02:22:47 <Riffsyphon1024> But still a Legend source. I look to
02:23:02 <Cade> Riff, again, nothing to do with NuCanon
02:23:06 <SimToprawa> I'm sorry, I can't even remember what my angle for this was
02:23:08 <SimToprawa> This is my bad
02:23:14 <SimToprawa> I left this sitting for too long
02:23:21 <IFYLOFD> Tope, you want to hash this out and take this to a CT or something?
02:23:22 <JorrelFraajic> Revisit?
02:23:23 <SimToprawa> Let's just decide whether we want Conjecture or not
02:23:23 <FeNite> Should we put this off?
02:23:27 <Riffsyphon1024> It's an inevitability.
02:23:47 <IFYLOFD> OK, vote on whether we want Conjecture on Atlas or Online Companion-named systems?
02:23:54 <SimToprawa> Wait
02:24:04 <SimToprawa> systems that were /only/ mentioned in Atlas or Online Companion
02:24:08 <IFYLOFD> Yes
02:24:14 <SimToprawa> Ok
02:24:15 <IFYLOFD> That.
02:24:18 <IFYLOFD> Let us do that thing.
02:24:27 <Cade> Wait.
02:24:37 <Riffsyphon1024> Again, regardless of canonicity (which this has nothing to do with), I see a need for the conjecture tag on those questionably titled articles.
02:24:49 <IFYLOFD> What is it, Cade?
02:24:52 <Cade> What about a system whose contents appeared in another source, but the system itself was first mentioned in the Atlas/Companion?
02:24:57 <Cade> Like Azzameen Station.
02:25:07 <SimToprawa> That's why it should emphasize "mentioned"
02:25:15 <SimToprawa> The system wasn't mentioned in X-wing Alliance
02:25:23 <SimToprawa> or even "named" would be better
02:25:26 <Cade> ^
02:25:26 <Riffsyphon1024> Seen not mentioned.
02:25:33 <Cade> Named is much better.
02:25:33 <JorrelFraajic> Named, then
02:25:36 <IFYLOFD> Named is good.
02:25:36 <JorrelFraajic> Change the wording.
02:25:38 <IFYLOFD> OK VOTE TIME
02:25:38 <Riffsyphon1024> Per Cade.
02:25:41 <IFYLOFD> #startvote Should we have {{Conjecture}} on systems only named in the Atlas or the Online Companion?
02:25:41 <Nuku-Nuku> Begin voting on: Should we have {{Conjecture}} on systems only named in the Atlas or the Online Companion? Valid vote options are Yes, No.
02:25:41 <Nuku-Nuku> Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
02:25:46 <IFYLOFD> bals
02:25:48 <IFYLOFD> #endvote
02:25:48 <Nuku-Nuku> Voted on "Should we have {{Conjecture}} on systems only named in the Atlas or the Online Companion?" Results are
02:25:51 <IFYLOFD> I SUCK, GUYS
02:25:55 <IFYLOFD> #startvote Should we have {{Conjecture}} on systems only named in the Atlas or the Online Companion? Yes, No, Abstain
02:25:55 <Nuku-Nuku> Begin voting on: Should we have {{Conjecture}} on systems only named in the Atlas or the Online Companion? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain.
02:25:55 <Nuku-Nuku> Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
02:25:58 <Cade> THIS IS KNOWN
02:26:01 <Cade> #vote Yes
02:26:04 <Riffsyphon1024> #Vote yes
02:26:04 <Supreme_Emperor> #vote yes
02:26:05 <JorrelFraajic> #vote yes
02:26:08 <IFYLOFD> #vote Yes
02:26:15 <Zuko> #vote Yes
02:26:20 <SimToprawa> #vote Yes
02:26:21 <CorellianPremier> #vote yes
02:26:24 <ProfessorTofty> #vote abstain
02:26:27 <exiledjedi> #vote yes
02:26:30 <SimToprawa> We can even create a new parameter in the template for these.
02:26:33 <grunny> #vote yes
02:26:35 <Brandon_Rhea> #vote Abstain
02:26:36 <SimToprawa> Specifying that these are Atlas thingies
02:26:46 <FeNite> #vote no
02:26:51 <Ayrehead02> #vote no
02:26:58 <IFYLOFD> Closing in five.
02:26:59 <Trip391> #vote yes
02:27:09 <IFYLOFD> #endvote
02:27:09 <Nuku-Nuku> Voted on "Should we have {{Conjecture}} on systems only named in the Atlas or the Online Companion?" Results are
02:27:09 <Nuku-Nuku> Yes (11): Supreme_Emperor, Zuko, grunny, SimToprawa, Riffsyphon1024, IFYLOFD, exiledjedi, JorrelFraajic, Cade, Trip391, CorellianPremier
02:27:09 <Nuku-Nuku> Abstain (2): Brandon_Rhea, ProfessorTofty
02:27:09 <Nuku-Nuku> No (2): Ayrehead02, FeNite
02:27:28 <IFYLOFD> Systems only named in the Atlas or Online Companion need {{Conjecture}}.
02:27:35 <IFYLOFD> OK, that's the end of the agenda
02:27:40 <IFYLOFD> Jorrel, did you have a thing?
02:28:01 <SimToprawa> Jorrel has to go
02:28:02 <JorrelFraajic> Not really.
02:28:05 <JorrelFraajic> I have to leave.
02:28:11 <IFYLOFD> OK then, NEVERMIND!
02:28:14 <JorrelFraajic> I'll CT it or save it.
02:28:16 <JorrelFraajic> ALTHOUGH
02:28:52 <IFYLOFD> vhat
02:28:55 <FeNite> *suspense
02:29:31 <JorrelFraajic> These are unrelated topics.
02:30:31 <SimToprawa> ARE WE DONE
02:30:32 <Riffsyphon1024> So.. yeah.
02:30:34 <SimToprawa> LET'S BE DONE
02:30:44 <IFYLOFD> Speak now, or forever hold your peace
02:30:46 <SimToprawa> PEOPLE ARE PINGING THE EFF OUT
02:30:49 <IFYLOFD> WE
02:30:51 <IFYLOFD> ARE
02:30:51 <Cade> DARK FAREWELLS [Redacted by administration]
02:30:52 <Zuko> Ah
02:30:52 <IFYLOFD> DONE
02:30:54 <Riffsyphon1024> Great job, guys!
02:30:56 <IFYLOFD> I BID YOU ALL DARK FAREWELLS
02:31:00 <SimToprawa> MUCH SUCCESS MOFFERENCE

Addendum: Reopened while we still had enough users for a quorum. (Timecodes below US East, above is UTC)
[22:36] <@IFYLOFD> #startmeeting Mofference, again?
[22:36] <@SirCavalier> Mofference Encore?
[22:36] <@Nuku-Nuku> Meeting started Sun May 17 02:36:45 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is IFYLOFD. Information about MeetBot at http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Mofferences.
[22:36] <@Nuku-Nuku> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
[22:36] * Nuku-Nuku changes topic to ' (Meeting topic: Mofference, again?)�'
[22:36] <@Nuku-Nuku> The meeting name has been set to 'mofference__again_'
[22:36] <@SimToprawa> Trust me.
[22:36] <@exiledjedi|busy> What is this?
[22:37] <@SimToprawa> Ok, let me explain
[22:37] <@IFYLOFD> Who wants the floor
[22:37] <@IFYLOFD> Zuko?
[22:37] <Zuko> do i have to talk ?
[22:37] <@SimToprawa> Since Helpers have admin powers, correct me if I'm wrong, but they also have the ability to access sensitive private information 
[22:37] <@SimToprawa> Like...deleted article content, AbuseFilter logs, etc.
[22:37] <@Cade> Ohh.
[22:37] <+Brandon_Rhea> Correct.
[22:37] <@SimToprawa> Any Helper caught disseminating this information should be harshly punished. 
[22:37] <@Supreme_Emperor> ^
[22:37] <@IFYLOFD> yES
[22:37] <@SimToprawa> This should be officially noted.
[22:37] <@IFYLOFD> *Yes
[22:37] <@IFYLOFD> OK
[22:37] <+Brandon_Rhea> So, I agree, but I'd make a point about that.
[22:38] <+Brandon_Rhea> A helper can't be banned. Much like I or grunny can't be banned.
[22:38] <@Cade> Wait, you can't be banned?
[22:38] <+Brandon_Rhea> Nope.
[22:38] <@SimToprawa> We'll treat them as blocked locally, then
[22:38] <@Cade> Or can you just unban yourself like we can?
[22:38] <FeNite> cade sounds disappointed lol 
[22:38] <+Brandon_Rhea> I don't think a block even takes hold for me.
[22:38] <+Brandon_Rhea> I could edit through it.
[22:38] * @Cade is intrigued
[22:38] <@grunny> we can't be banned
[22:38] <+Brandon_Rhea> I would say, if you're going to codify this, "harshly punished" should be defined as "report it to Wikia."
[22:38] <@Cade> o_O
[22:38] <@IFYLOFD> That is the most ultimate type of power
[22:39] <@Cade> Good Lord
[22:39] <+Brandon_Rhea> Because a Helper can't be banned either, I think. Grunny can correct me if I'ml wrong. 
[22:39] <@SimToprawa> Sure, Brandon
[22:39] <Zuko> hmm, there's a way just to censor the site, it was tested on one of the french wikia, you just see a blank screen, when you trie to access the site
[22:39] <@grunny> Cade, feel free to try :) you'll just get an error message
[22:39] <@SimToprawa> Actually
[22:39] <@Cade> Brandon, you must immediately do something for us
[22:39] <@grunny> Helpers can actually be banned, it's only a staff right
[22:39] <+Brandon_Rhea> Ahhh ok.
[22:39] <@Cade> Set in effect measures to prevent Donmax from EVER becoming staff/helpers
[22:39] <@SimToprawa> I would add that, Brandon, plus "be subject to local Wookieepedia punitive action at the discretion of the administration."
[22:39] <+Brandon_Rhea> I'd still make "report it to Wikia" part of this. 
[22:39] <+Brandon_Rhea> That works.
[22:39] <@Cade> It would be his ultimate victory
[22:40] <@grunny> oh wait, no they can't either now
[22:40] <+Brandon_Rhea> XD
[22:40] <@grunny> we must have changed the config from when I looked last
[22:40] <+Brandon_Rhea> Ok so I'd go back to just "report it to Wikia" 
[22:40] <@SirCavalier> Please, never make Byzantinefire a helper.
[22:40] <@Culator|Away> GAH
[22:40] <@Cade> ^^^^
[22:40] <@Cade> ^^^^^^&^
[22:40] <+Brandon_Rhea> Yeah that'll never happen. 
[22:40] <@SimToprawa> Even though we can't technically block them, we can still consider and treat them as blocked
[22:40] <@IFYLOFD> I don't think that'll ever be a problem.
[22:40] <@SimToprawa> Meaning we revert their contribs, et al.
[22:40] <@SimToprawa> I think that should be stipulated 
[22:41] <@Culator|Away> [Redacted by administration]
[22:41] <+Brandon_Rhea> I'd keep it as your "at the discretion" wording. 
[22:41] <+Brandon_Rhea> Helpers aren't in California. :P
[22:41] <@SimToprawa> So, here's my proposal:
[22:41] <@Culator|Away> [Redacted by administration]
[22:41] <Zuko> So yeah, when on the wook, helper cannot use their administrative tools nor share what they can see that is confidential
[22:41] <+Brandon_Rhea> A lot of them are at an even worse place for you, Culator. Europe. :P
[22:41] <Zuko> right ?
[22:41] <@IFYLOFD> Yes
[22:41] <@Supreme_Emperor> Exactly Zuko
[22:41] <@Cade> Culator would never go to Canadia, unless he's going there to conquer it.
[22:42] <@Culator|Away> [Redacted by administration]
[22:42] <@SimToprawa> Wikia Helpers caught disseminating private information only accessible to Wookieepedia administrators will be reported to Wikia staff and will be held in punitive regard at the discretion of the administration. 
[22:42] <@SimToprawa> Yes?
[22:42] <@Cade> Si.
[22:42] <@Culator|Away> Ooh, regard.
[22:42] <@Culator|Away> I like that.
[22:42] <@SimToprawa> heh
[22:42] <@IFYLOFD> PUNITIVE REGARD
[22:42] <@IFYLOFD> That is excellent
[22:42] <@SimToprawa> Translation: Blocked/banned without actually being so
[22:43] <Zuko> perfect :)
[22:43] <@IFYLOFD> OK, I think we can vote on that.
[22:43] <@Culator|Away> Like we do to our evershifting IP friends.
[22:43] <@SimToprawa> Indeed
[22:43] <@Culator|Away> We can't ban you, but we can make sure you never do anything permanent.
[22:43] <@IFYLOFD> #startvote Agree with the addition to the Helper thing? Yes, No, Abstain
[22:43] <@Nuku-Nuku> Begin voting on: Agree with the addition to the Helper thing? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain.
[22:43] <@Nuku-Nuku> Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
[22:43] <@Supreme_Emperor> #vote yes
[22:43] <@IFYLOFD> #vote Yes
[22:43] <@Cade> #vote Yes
[22:43] <@Culator|Away> #yes
[22:43] <@SimToprawa> #vote Yes
[22:43] <@Culator|Away> #vote yes
[22:43] <Zuko> #yes
[22:43] <@SirCavalier> #vote yes
[22:43] <@SimToprawa> Vote again correctly, Zuko
[22:44] <+Brandon_Rhea> #vote Abstain
[22:44] <Zuko> #vote yes
[22:44] <+CorellianPremier> #vote yes
[22:44] <Trip391> #vote yes
[22:44] <Zuko> sorry
[22:44] <@IFYLOFD> And you too, Culator
[22:44] <@SimToprawa> He did
[22:44] <@exiledjedi|busy> #vote yes
[22:44] <@Culator|Away> I did.
[22:44] <@IFYLOFD> Who are you, Riff?
[22:44] <@Cade> XD
[22:44] <Ayrehead02> #vote yes
[22:44] <FeNite> #vote yes
[22:44] <@IFYLOFD> Closing in five
[22:44] <@Culator|Away> I'm tired and trying to get intoxicated.
[22:44] <@IFYLOFD> #endvote
[22:44] <@Nuku-Nuku> Voted on "Agree with the addition to the Helper thing?" Results are
[22:44] <@Nuku-Nuku> Yes (12): Culator|Away, Supreme_Emperor, Zuko, SirCavalier, FeNite, SimToprawa, exiledjedi|busy, IFYLOFD, Ayrehead02, Cade, Trip391, CorellianPremier
[22:44] <@Nuku-Nuku> Abstain (1): Brandon_Rhea
[22:44] <@IFYLOFD> Thing is thinged.
[22:44] <@Culator|Away> 12. Quroum.
[22:44] <@IFYLOFD> WE'RE DONE WE'RE DONE WE'RE DONE
[22:44] <@Culator|Away> Spelling.
[22:45] <@IFYLOFD> [Redacted by administration]