[03:00:10] <Jangsworth> !hieverybody
[03:00:10] <ecks> er
[03:00:11] <Nuku-Nuku> Hello, arioch, Cade, Cal_Jedi, Calrayn, CC7567, ChanServ, CorellianPremier, Darth_Culator, DeusFigendi, dogma, ecks, exiledjedi, GreenTentacle, IFYLOFD, Jangsworth, Lord_Oblivion, Lord_Zervonn, MasterFred, MathUser2929, N7, Nuku-
Nuku, Pichu, PurpleTentacle, Riffsyphon1024, Supreme_Emperor, Tm_T, Tommy9281, Toprawa, Trip391, Tyber, Whopper, and xqo !!!
[03:00:11] <ecks> yeah
[03:00:17] <Jangsworth> EVERYONE PLEASE PAY ATTENTION
[03:00:21] <Jangsworth> Welcome, everyone, to Mofference January 2014.
[03:00:21] <Jangsworth> Before we begin, I would like to go over a few ground rules. Many here know the drill, but others may not.
[03:00:28] <Jangsworth> Basically the Mofference is a real-time CT.
[03:00:28] <Jangsworth> Those who created agenda items will present their topics.
[03:00:32] <Jangsworth> With the exception of admins, everyone else will be devoiced during the presentations.
[03:00:33] <Jangsworth> Admins, please be courteous and do not speak when the presenters are talking.
[03:00:37] <Jangsworth> Once the topic is presented and the presenter is done talking, the floor will be opened for discussion and then voting if necessary.
[03:00:42] <Jangsworth> Those who are eligible to vote will do so through GT’s bot, PurpleTentacle.
[03:00:47] <Jangsworth> When the poll is open, please use the following commands to vote:
[03:00:48] <Jangsworth> ~support
[03:00:48] <Jangsworth> ~oppose
[03:00:48] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: There is no open vote on this channel.
[03:00:48] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: There is no open vote on this channel.
[03:00:53] <Jangsworth> That’s it. Please do not say “support” or “- support” or anything like that. GT’s bot will not recognize any other voting command. Be mindful of typos.
[03:00:58] <Jangsworth> Let’s stay ON TOPIC throughout the Mofference. Anyone disrupting or purposely initiating derailment and/or off-topic discussions will be temporarily kick banned for the remainder of the meeting – I mean it.
[03:01:04] <Jangsworth> Comments are always encouraged; just keep them on topic and focused. As what Tope said
[03:01:09] <Jangsworth> Xd pls be sure to log this thing :3
[03:01:11] <ecks> you can hoever append a comment, for example ~support this sounds good
[03:01:14] <Toprawa> Don't make me regulate. :P
[03:01:17] <Jangsworth> Ok, I will now start the Mofference with my agenda item #1:
[03:01:17] <ecks> log is operating
[03:01:18] <Jangsworth> olol
[03:01:22] <Jangsworth> Two parts:
[03:01:26] <Jangsworth> PART ONE:
[03:01:26] <Jangsworth> At the last Mofference we voted and passed this WP:SIV amendment:
[03:01:30] <Jangsworth> "Any user who has placed {{User left}} on their user page, or who has in some other way made it clear that they have departed the wiki, must re-earn the right to vote. From the time that they stated their intentions to leave,
whether by the use of {{User left}} or some other means, they must earn another 50 valid Main namespace edits before they can vote."
[03:01:39] <Jangsworth> Herein lies your problem, guys: "From the time that they stated their intentions to leave, whether by the use of {{User left}} or some other means, they must earn another 50 valid Main namespace edits before they can vote."
[03:01:49] <Jangsworth> It's a loophole, it's exploitable and it needs to be corrected. Users can simply get around the fact by obtaining 50 Main namespace edits with a {{User left}}, or by other means, on their userpage. It just goes against {{User left}}
and the amendment.
[03:01:57] <Jangsworth> In other words, once they obtain those 50 Main namespace edits, they could still vote and be designated as {{User left}}.
[03:01:58] *** Joins: jSarek (redacted@gateway/web/freenode/ip.redacted)
[03:02:02] <Jangsworth> Here's what I suggest doing: Modify the amendment text with:
[03:02:05] <Jangsworth> Hey jSarek
[03:02:12] <Jangsworth> We're on agenda 1
[03:02:13] <Jangsworth> "Any user who has placed {{User left}} on their user page, or who has in some other way made it clear that they have departed the wiki, must re-earn the right to vote. From the time that they stated their intentions to leave,
whether by the use of {{User left}} or some other means, they will not be eligible to vote. Before they can vote again, they must make it clear that they have returned from their absence, with messag
[03:02:14] <Jangsworth> es and templates reverted, and they must earn another 50 valid Main namespace edits."
[03:02:23] <Jangsworth> You can see that I have modified the exploitable text. If they want to vote again, they must remove the template, or any similar message, and earn another 50 valid main namespace.
[03:02:30] <Jangsworth> PART TWO
[03:02:36] <Jangsworth> The second part is up for debate, but should we also consider not letting recently unblocked users cast their vote.
[03:02:37] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jSarek
[03:02:42] <Jangsworth> I think it would make sense because there are multiple instances where a user would be blocked for disruption because of his or her actions in a community consensus vote page. Following the block’s expiration, the situation would
repeat.
[03:02:47] <Jangsworth> I think an appropriate addition to the “additional provisions” section would be:
[03:02:52] <Jangsworth> “Users returning from a block are not immediately eligible to vote on matters of site consensus (as defined in this section's first bullet point). They regain their voting eligibility after two weeks from the expiration of any
block.”
[03:03:05] <Jangsworth> I was thinking of using 50 edits instead of two weeks, but I do see the two week period as better “damage control” to put it into simple words.
[03:03:17] <Jangsworth> Okay that's all I have. I can repeat information if you need some clarifcation
[03:03:19] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -m
[03:03:27] <Cal_Jedi> I am definitely a huge supporter of the first point, and the second point sounds pretty darn solid.
[03:03:38] <Jangsworth> Sorry for the novel
[03:03:41] <IFYLOFD> I don't really have any problems with any of this
[03:03:46] <Toprawa> I'd suggest confining discussion to one point at a time here, since this could go astray
[03:03:47] <Supreme_Emperor> all sounds pretty solid
[03:03:50] <CC7567> I'm for the first but not for the second; a block is enough punishment in my opinion, not having to re-earn the right to vote
[03:03:53] <jSarek> Oppose all of it. I'm sick of trying to restrict political access to the Star Wars Encyclopedia that anyone can edit.
[03:03:55] <Toprawa> But I support both items
[03:03:55] <MasterFred> Everything sounds fine to me so far
[03:03:56] <ecks> I have some concerns about the first part. I don't think {{user left}} should be too formal
[03:03:58] <Jangsworth> Yes, I appologize for that
[03:04:00] <dogma> both are solid
[03:04:13] <Riffsyphon1024> Better clarification is always good, especially if we have a loophole situation.
[03:04:24] <Nuku-Nuku> I BID YOU DARK GREETINGS!
[03:04:30] <Jangsworth> Yes hi
[03:04:32] <Cal_Jedi> sorry, Nuku. A little late. :P
[03:04:35] <ecks> I'd rather propose something like "50 edits in the past 6/12 months" to be eligible to vote
[03:04:35] <exiledjedi> Both seem like good ideas to me.
[03:04:37] <Riffsyphon1024> Nuku, you're late.
[03:04:39] <Nuku-Nuku> Riffsyphon1024: Error: "you're" is not a valid command.
[03:04:41] <ecks> kinda like the admin activity requirement
[03:04:49] <CC7567> I would support that, ecks
[03:05:22] <Jangsworth> for what?
[03:05:30] <ecks> because I'm not really sure I can support {{user left}} being formalized
[03:05:39] <Tommy9281> I agree with JSarek
[03:05:46] <Riffsyphon1024> I think restrictions should be in regards to high level decision making, like CTs.
[03:05:47] <Cal_Jedi> I'm not sure I fully understand ecks.
[03:05:50] *** Quits: Calrayn (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[03:05:50] <ecks> however, requiring users to make x edits in y months to retain their voting rights is something I could support
[03:05:53] <MasterFred> JSarek: I would argue that if they receive a block they have forfeit their rights to edit and vote.
[03:05:53] <Darth_Culator> Any public declaration of intention to depart is sufficient.
[03:06:06] <Darth_Culator> Flouncing is flouncing.
[03:06:09] <Cal_Jedi> by "being formalized," do you mean that you don't support the first part at all?
[03:06:14] *** Joins: Calrayn (~Cade_Calr@redacted)
[03:06:14] *** Quits: Calrayn (~Cade_Calr@redacted) (Changing host)
[03:06:14] *** Joins: Calrayn (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn)
[03:06:14] *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Calrayn
[03:06:16] *** Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +v Calrayn
[03:06:18] <Jangsworth> Okay we're going to be voting on the first item
[03:06:19] <ecks> I support the basic idea behind it
[03:06:21] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -v Calrayn
[03:06:24] <Jangsworth> ~open
[03:06:24] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is open.
[03:06:28] <ecks> i.e. preventing users from leaving
[03:06:32] <Calrayn> ~support
[03:06:32] <PurpleTentacle> Calrayn: Support vote counted.
[03:06:33] <ecks> then coming back just to vote
[03:06:33] <Darth_Culator> ~support
[03:06:33] <Jangsworth> ~support
[03:06:34] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[03:06:34] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support vote counted.
[03:06:34] <IFYLOFD> ~support
[03:06:34] <Trip391> ~support
[03:06:34] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[03:06:35] <PurpleTentacle> Trip391: Support vote counted.
[03:06:35] <Toprawa> ~support
[03:06:36] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[03:06:37] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[03:06:37] <PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[03:06:37] <exiledjedi> ~support
[03:06:38] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[03:06:39] <CC7567> ~support
[03:06:39] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[03:06:39] <PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support vote counted.
[03:06:39] <MasterFred> ~support
[03:06:40] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[03:06:40] <Riffsyphon1024> Not editing for six months isn't the same as announcing someone is down with the project, however.
[03:06:40] <PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[03:06:41] <Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[03:06:41] <PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[03:06:45] *** Joins: grunny (~grunny@wikia/vstf/countervandalism.user.Grunny)
[03:06:45] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o grunny
[03:06:45] <jSarek> ~oppose
[03:06:46] <PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Oppose vote counted.
[03:06:46] *** Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +o grunny
[03:06:47] <ecks> as it stands though, I cannot comfortably support it
[03:06:52] <ecks> ~oppose
[03:06:53] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Oppose vote counted.
[03:06:57] <dogma> ~support
[03:06:57] <PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted.
[03:06:58] <Tommy9281> ~oppose
[03:06:58] <PurpleTentacle> Tommy9281: Oppose vote counted.
[03:06:59] <Cal_Jedi> yo Grunny
[03:06:59] <Jangsworth> Anyone else?
[03:07:03] <Jangsworth> Hey grunny
[03:07:04] <grunny> hey Cal
[03:07:05] <ecks> ohai grunny
[03:07:14] <Jangsworth> ~close
[03:07:14] <grunny> hay Jang, Xd
[03:07:15] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is closed.
[03:07:19] <Jangsworth> ~vote
[03:07:19] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: There is no open vote on this channel.
[03:07:28] <ecks> ~tally
[03:07:28] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Oppose: 3
[03:07:29] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support: 13
[03:07:31] <Riffsyphon1024> ~oppose
[03:07:32] <PurpleTentacle> Riffsyphon1024: There is no open vote on this channel.
[03:07:32] <Jangsworth> Thank you
[03:07:45] <Jangsworth> Voting one passed
[03:07:50] <Jangsworth> Now onto the second part
[03:07:52] <Jangsworth> ~open
[03:07:52] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is open.
[03:07:56] <CC7567> ~oppose
[03:07:56] <PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Oppose vote counted.
[03:07:58] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[03:07:58] <PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[03:07:59] <CorellianPremier> ~oppose
[03:07:59] <Darth_Culator> ~support
[03:07:59] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Oppose vote counted.
[03:07:59] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[03:07:59] <Toprawa> ~support
[03:08:00] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[03:08:00] <Jangsworth> ~support
[03:08:00] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support vote counted.
[03:08:01] <ecks> can we have a discussion on item 2 first?
[03:08:05] <MasterFred> ~support
[03:08:05] <PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[03:08:06] <Calrayn> ~support
[03:08:06] <PurpleTentacle> Calrayn: Support vote counted.
[03:08:07] <jSarek> ~oppose
[03:08:08] <PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Oppose vote counted.
[03:08:08] <Jangsworth> Did we not discuss it?
[03:08:09] <exiledjedi> ~support
[03:08:09] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[03:08:09] <CC7567> wait, per ecks
[03:08:10] <dogma> ~support
[03:08:10] <PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted.
[03:08:11] <Riffsyphon1024> Um, okay. That was supposed to record.
[03:08:20] <Tommy9281> ~oppose
[03:08:20] <PurpleTentacle> Tommy9281: Oppose vote counted.
[03:08:25] <IFYLOFD> ~oppose
[03:08:25] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Oppose vote counted.
[03:08:25] <ecks> I have some minor details
[03:08:25] <Jangsworth> ~close
[03:08:26] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is closed.
[03:08:30] <ecks> that I'd like ironed out
[03:08:32] <Jangsworth> Xd is right. We didn't discuss it
[03:08:45] <Jangsworth> Okay, should I repost my agenda item?
[03:08:48] <Toprawa> We can pretend that was a mock vote.
[03:08:51] <Jangsworth> Yeah
[03:08:52] <Toprawa> That's what the Senate does :P
[03:08:52] <MasterFred> :P
[03:08:53] <CC7567> yes please, Jang
[03:08:55] <Toprawa> ~tally
[03:08:55] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Oppose: 5
[03:08:55] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 8
[03:09:02] <MasterFred> Tight race
[03:09:04] <Cal_Jedi> legit
[03:09:05] <Riffsyphon1024> This is twice the vote has closed on me.
[03:09:05] <Jangsworth> Basically we all discussed bits of the 2nd as we discussed the first
[03:09:05] <Cal_Jedi> 8)
[03:09:13] <Jangsworth> So basically here's my second part for those who joined:
[03:09:16] <Jangsworth> Bare with the novel
[03:09:21] <Toprawa> I don't see what the big deal is here. This is like a parole measure.
[03:09:21] <Darth_Culator> Bah, you people and your democracy.
[03:09:23] <Jangsworth> PART TWO
[03:09:23] <Jangsworth> The second part is up for debate, but should we also consider not letting recently unblocked users cast their vote.
[03:09:23] <Jangsworth> I think it would make sense because there are multiple instances where a user would be blocked for disruption because of his or her actions in a community consensus vote page. Following the block’s expiration, the situation would
repeat.
[03:09:23] <Jangsworth> I think an appropriate addition to the “additional provisions” section would be:
[03:09:25] <Jangsworth> “Users returning from a block are not immediately eligible to vote on matters of site consensus (as defined in this section's first bullet point). They regain their voting eligibility after two weeks from the expiration of any
block.”
[03:09:26] <Toprawa> It prevents people from coming back with vendettas.
[03:09:29] <Jangsworth> I was thinking of using 50 edits instead of two weeks, but I do see the two week period as better “damage control” to put it into simple words.
[03:09:29] <Toprawa> Which they do.
[03:09:30] <Calrayn> ^
[03:09:33] <Cal_Jedi> Per Tope
[03:09:33] <Jangsworth> PART OF WP:SIV fyi
[03:09:37] *** Joins: MasterJonathan (~Miranda@wikia/MasterJonathan)
[03:09:37] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o MasterJonathan
[03:09:39] *** Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +o MasterJonathan
[03:09:41] <Tommy9281> Which are easily dismissed
[03:09:41] <ecks> would this be for all blocks, though? even 24h ones?
[03:09:44] <MasterFred> Heyo MJ
[03:09:47] <IFYLOFD> It's a little draconian for my tastes
[03:09:48] <Supreme_Emperor> per tope
[03:09:50] <Toprawa> Dismissed, Tommy?
[03:09:56] <Tommy9281> People's vendettas.
[03:09:56] <Riffsyphon1024> ~support
[03:09:57] <PurpleTentacle> Riffsyphon1024: There is no open vote on this channel.
[03:09:59] <ecks> I definitely wouldn't mind this for longer blocks
[03:10:00] <Toprawa> Yeah, I get it
[03:10:02] <Jangsworth> Riff, it's not open
[03:10:03] <Cal_Jedi> And per Fred from above, where he said that people who were blocked lost their right to vote.
[03:10:06] <Jangsworth> We're discussing the 2nd part
[03:10:08] <Toprawa> People shouldn't be allowed to perpetrate their vendettas; that's the point
[03:10:13] <MasterFred> I mean, perhaps not minor blocks.
[03:10:14] <Toprawa> We shouldn't have to put up with that bs
[03:10:14] <IFYLOFD> An otherwise well-meaning user can get blocked for something like 3RR, and lose their right to vote
[03:10:17] <Jangsworth> scroll up to see my agenda item
[03:10:21] <IFYLOFD> Well, if they do that, you ban them
[03:10:28] <Darth_Culator> The 24 hour block thing is a fair point.
[03:10:29] <Toprawa> How, Floyd?
[03:10:35] <Jangsworth> Basically it will be for any block
[03:10:37] <ecks> say you get into an edit war and get a 24h block, should that really be enough to warrant a 2-week ban on voting?
[03:10:39] <MasterJonathan> What are we discussing at the moment?
[03:10:40] <IFYLOFD> We shouldn't toss a blanket on everyone
[03:10:41] <Cal_Jedi> Would you be more agreeable, ecks, if it was for only blocks of at least a month?
[03:10:43] <Toprawa> How can I ban someone like KEJ, who purposely votes against the grain just to piss people off?
[03:10:45] <Jangsworth> MJ:
[03:10:46] <Calrayn> Per Floyd
[03:10:47] <Jangsworth> PART TWO
[03:10:47] <Jangsworth> The second part is up for debate, but should we also consider not letting recently unblocked users cast their vote.
[03:10:47] <Jangsworth> I think it would make sense because there are multiple instances where a user would be blocked for disruption because of his or her actions in a community consensus vote page. Following the block’s expiration, the situation would
repeat.
[03:10:47] <Jangsworth> I think an appropriate addition to the “additional provisions” section would be:
[03:10:48] <Darth_Culator> You lose your right to vote if you get convicted of a felony, not a misdemeanor.
[03:10:48] <Jangsworth> “Users returning from a block are not immediately eligible to vote on matters of site consensus (as defined in this section's first bullet point). They regain their voting eligibility after two weeks from the expiration of any
block.”
[03:10:51] <ecks> Cal_Jedi, I'd be content with 1 month or longer
[03:10:54] <IFYLOFD> KEJ has a right to vote the way he wants
[03:10:55] <Jangsworth> I was thinking of using 50 edits instead of two weeks, but I do see the two week period as better “damage control” to put it into simple words.
[03:10:57] <Jangsworth> �
[03:11:00] <Jangsworth> WP:SIV
[03:11:00] <MasterFred> I'd say we need to list specifically what blocks deserve this.
[03:11:04] <IFYLOFD> We don't have to like it, but we have to respect it
[03:11:05] <Supreme_Emperor> one month sounds reasonable
[03:11:08] <MasterFred> I'd be ok with 1 month blocks or longer.
[03:11:09] <Cal_Jedi> I don't know about that, Fred.
[03:11:14] <Cal_Jedi> Yeah.
[03:11:19] <CC7567> Per Floyd
[03:11:19] <jSarek> I don't like people losing their ability to have a say in the site's operation just because some admin thought they needed a block.
[03:11:20] <Cal_Jedi> That way, it isn't over complicated.
[03:11:32] <IFYLOFD> Yeah, we should have a minimum block length
[03:11:35] <IFYLOFD> I'd be fine with one month
[03:11:36] <Cal_Jedi> jSarek, it doesn't work that way.
[03:11:37] <ecks> 1 month or even longer
[03:11:45] <Cal_Jedi> This isn't a tyranny.
[03:11:57] <Jangsworth> We should take this to a CT if we cannot decide
[03:12:00] <Cal_Jedi> and I would be supportive of that point: 1 month or longer gets a two week "parole"
[03:12:04] <Jangsworth> For now, let's take a vote and get this Mofference moving
[03:12:05] <Supreme_Emperor> definitely, just because some new user went a bit far and violated 3RR, shouldn't block them from voting
[03:12:10] <Jangsworth> Agreed?
[03:12:10] <Cal_Jedi> wait
[03:12:16] <ecks> what are we voting for? 1 month?
[03:12:16] <jSarek> Cal: Perhaps you should reread Administrative Autonomy again, It is a tyranny, albeit a (generally) benevolent one.
[03:12:22] <Cal_Jedi> Is most everyone agreeable with 1 month?
[03:12:27] <Jangsworth> Sure
[03:12:34] <MasterFred> Are you changing the proposal now, Jang?
[03:12:41] <MasterFred> Adding the 1 month amendment?
[03:12:49] <Calrayn> There are very few banned people who deserve, need, or would even make use of their say in the site's operation
[03:12:54] <Jangsworth> We're discussing it atm and getting ideas across
[03:13:04] <ecks> I'd be in support of 1 month
[03:13:08] <Darth_Culator> Conversely, people DO lose "their ability to have a say in the [country's] operation just because some [police officer] thought they needed [to be arrested]", so jSarek's point is not so good to me.
[03:13:10] <Jangsworth> I'll give this discussion a few more minutes
[03:13:14] <Jangsworth> we really need to get moving
[03:13:19] <MasterFred> You just said you were fixing to open up the vote. Wanted to know what I was voting for or against.
[03:13:19] <Jangsworth> We have 12 more agendas
[03:13:20] <Toprawa> Does jSarek ever have a good point?
[03:13:24] <Cal_Jedi> I say we vote on the same thing, just adding an addendum of one month.
[03:13:33] <ecks> per Cal
[03:13:54] <Jangsworth> yeah per above
[03:14:02] <Darth_Culator> So with the 1 month amendment, I'm all for it.
[03:14:08] <MasterFred> Same.
[03:14:11] <jSarek> DC: Something I also disagree with, but this is about the Wook's politics, not the country's.
[03:14:14] <Cal_Jedi> Let's open the vote.
[03:14:20] <dogma> agreed
[03:14:22] <Jangsworth> Okay we're voting
[03:14:39] <Jangsworth> 1 month amendement
[03:14:41] <Jangsworth> ~open
[03:14:41] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is open.
[03:14:43] <MasterFred> ~support
[03:14:44] <Cade> ~support
[03:14:44] <PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[03:14:44] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[03:14:44] <Trip391> ~support
[03:14:45] <Darth_Culator> ~support
[03:14:45] <PurpleTentacle> Trip391: Support vote counted.
[03:14:45] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[03:14:45] <ecks> ~support
[03:14:46] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
[03:14:46] <Jangsworth> ~support
[03:14:46] <CorellianPremier> ~oppose
[03:14:46] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support vote counted.
[03:14:46] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Oppose vote counted.
[03:14:47] <Toprawa> ~support
[03:14:47] <CC7567> ~oppose
[03:14:47] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[03:14:47] <PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Oppose vote counted.
[03:14:48] <Tommy9281> ~abstain
[03:14:49] <jSarek> ~oppose
[03:14:49] <PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Oppose vote counted.
[03:14:50] <IFYLOFD> !support
[03:14:51] <Nuku-Nuku> IFYLOFD: Error: "support" is not a valid command.
[03:14:55] <exiledjedi> ~support
[03:14:55] <dogma> ~support
[03:14:55] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[03:14:55] <PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted.
[03:14:56] <IFYLOFD> Whoops
[03:14:56] <Riffsyphon1024> ~support
[03:14:56] <PurpleTentacle> Riffsyphon1024: Support vote counted.
[03:14:58] <IFYLOFD> ~support
[03:14:58] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[03:15:03] <Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[03:15:04] <PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[03:15:04] <Jangsworth> THERE IS ONLY ~support and ~oppose NOTHING ELSE
[03:15:13] <Jangsworth> If you don't wish to vote, then stay out of it please
[03:15:15] <Jangsworth> Anyone else?
[03:15:18] <grunny> ~oppose
[03:15:18] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[03:15:19] <PurpleTentacle> grunny: Oppose vote counted.
[03:15:19] <PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[03:15:29] <Jangsworth> Anyone?
[03:15:33] <Jangsworth> ~close
[03:15:33] <Darth_Culator> Bueller?
[03:15:33] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is closed.
[03:15:35] <Jangsworth> ~tally
[03:15:36] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Oppose: 4
[03:15:36] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support: 13
[03:15:39] <Jangsworth> Okay
[03:15:41] <Cal_Jedi> Note: There has been a slight change in the agenda chronology.
[03:15:45] <Jangsworth> Onto the second agenda
[03:15:49] <Riffsyphon1024> This is actually a headache on touch screen.
[03:15:51] <Toprawa> Measure passed, for the record.
[03:15:54] <Cade> Cal: yeah, Jang knows
[03:15:55] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +m
[03:16:01] <IFYLOFD> Agenda 2 is me, right?
[03:16:03] <Jangsworth> Amendment to QOTD policy. I'm sick of having to do these voting drives. Since most of the good quotes need like +234234235235 votes to pass, I think we should reset it. Just because a quote was featured in 2006 doesn't mean it
should be impossible in 2014, and no one wants to see the QOTD die. IFYLOFD (Enter the Floydome) 01:48, January 7, 2014 (UTC)
[03:16:06] <Jangsworth> Floyd is up
[03:16:08] <IFYLOFD> Whee hee
[03:16:11] <Cal_Jedi> hold on a sec.
[03:16:11] <Jangsworth> Go ahead you have the floor
[03:16:19] <IFYLOFD> I think I explained it there already
[03:16:25] <IFYLOFD> QOTD's in bad shape
[03:16:48] <IFYLOFD> One of the issues, in my mind, is that most of the good quotes have already been voted in
[03:17:18] <IFYLOFD> And with the current rate of contribution, it's impossible to get anything through that needs +15 or +20
[03:17:30] <IFYLOFD> I'm proposing that we completely reset it
[03:17:51] <IFYLOFD> For now, all quotes need +10 to pass again
[03:18:07] <IFYLOFD> I'm open to other ideas on the subject
[03:18:20] <Jangsworth> Thanks Floyd
[03:18:23] <MasterJonathan> I think Cal has a related agenda item here that needs to come first?
[03:18:26] <Jangsworth> The floor is now open
[03:18:27] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -m
[03:18:30] <ecks> Is this just a one-time reset?
[03:18:32] <Toprawa> It's kind of silly that we never have film quotes anymore because of what Floyd is saying
[03:18:34] <Cal_Jedi> We've changed that, MJ.
[03:18:35] <Calrayn> Sounds good
[03:18:35] <IFYLOFD> Yeah
[03:18:41] <Darth_Culator> I think we can work out a new cyclical renomination system later, but a total reset is a good emergency measure for now.
[03:18:42] <MasterJonathan> Cal: Oh, OK
[03:18:44] <Toprawa> Especially with the new films coming out, we need to start showcasing film quotes again
[03:18:44] <Cal_Jedi> Sorry, but I'm going to keep mine in the original place.
[03:18:46] <Jangsworth> I believe that the voting counts for the quotes should reset after +20 or something. As an example, if "I love you, I know" gets nominated 2 times (and both passed), the vote count will reset back down to 10 votes needed.
[03:18:46] <Jangsworth> It shouldn't go up to +25 votes needed, as it does now. On an entirely different note, but still relevant: With the limited amount of active users, there's no way we could reach +25 on a vote.
[03:18:49] <Cal_Jedi> Sorry about the confusion.
[03:18:50] <Supreme_Emperor> as you said, it really is impossible to get any +15 votes
[03:18:51] <IFYLOFD> I hate that something passing in 2006 or 2007 means we can't get it on the front page onw
[03:18:55] <IFYLOFD> *now
[03:19:06] <Riffsyphon1024> 10 sounds like a reasonable number.
[03:19:06] <ecks> fine with me; I'd even be okay with not increasing the votes required at all
[03:19:07] <Jangsworth> yeah Emperor
[03:19:09] <MasterJonathan> Proposal: Only appearances within the past two years count against the quote.
[03:19:17] <Darth_Culator> Like "reset the vote count needed after +20 or 2 years"
[03:19:23] <IFYLOFD> I like that
[03:19:24] <Supreme_Emperor> based solely on the number of people who actively vote on the QOTD, the best stuff is next to impossible
[03:19:33] <IFYLOFD> Jang mentioned an idea like that to me earlier
[03:19:35] <Supreme_Emperor> that sounds fair
[03:19:37] <Jangsworth> Yeah
[03:19:40] <ecks> Culator's idea sounds good
[03:19:44] <Jangsworth> That too
[03:19:54] <MasterFred> Per Culator
[03:19:55] <Calrayn> Per Culator.
[03:19:56] <exiledjedi> +20 or 2 years sounds good.
[03:20:00] <Supreme_Emperor> ^
[03:20:02] <Jangsworth> Agreed
[03:20:10] <Riffsyphon1024> Per Culator.
[03:20:17] <Darth_Culator> Or I could just pull a new cyclical system out of my butt now. :P
[03:20:22] <Cal_Jedi> I'm sorry, but what do you mean by +20?
[03:20:23] <jSarek> I say just the two years.
[03:20:23] <Toprawa> Can I add an impromptu side proposal to this?
[03:20:30] <Cal_Jedi> when twenty people vote on one quote, you mean?
[03:20:31] <Jangsworth> Sure
[03:20:38] <MasterFred> Cal Yes
[03:20:44] <Darth_Culator> Yes, Cal, quotes can get negative votes.
[03:20:49] <Cal_Jedi> Right. Thanks.
[03:20:49] <MasterFred> 20 more support votes than oppose
[03:20:59] <jSarek> In fact, make that the sole criteria. Ditch the additional votes, and just forbit re-featuring quotes if they've been used in the past two years.
[03:21:08] <Toprawa> As I said, with the new films coming out, we're going to have a lot more traffic to the MP, which I think means we need to have film quotes. In addition to Culator's thing, can we agree to reset all film quotes at least?
[03:21:18] <Cal_Jedi> Yes.
[03:21:22] <Darth_Culator> I like that. Film quotes are gravy.
[03:21:23] <Riffsyphon1024> Plus Rebels quotes.
[03:21:23] <Supreme_Emperor> definitely
[03:21:26] <Cal_Jedi> I would definitely go with that.
[03:21:34] <Cal_Jedi> Most SW fans don't even look at the EU.
[03:21:38] <Cal_Jedi> Most soft core fans, anyway.
[03:21:44] <Toprawa> per Cal
[03:21:44] <ecks> One-time reset for everything and then +20/2 years for reset
[03:21:49] <Calrayn> Per ecks
[03:21:50] <Cal_Jedi> indeed.
[03:21:52] <Supreme_Emperor> i like this
[03:21:55] <exiledjedi> sure
[03:21:56] <Jangsworth> basically
[03:22:10] <MasterFred> I need to vote on the QOTD more often.
[03:22:15] <Darth_Culator> I said the +20 thing because I can foresee just one or two exceptional quotes getting renominated many times in 2 years, and people really won't mind.
[03:22:27] <Jangsworth> Poll is now open
[03:22:28] <Jangsworth> ~open
[03:22:29] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is open.
[03:22:32] <Trip391> ~support
[03:22:33] <PurpleTentacle> Trip391: Support vote counted.
[03:22:33] <IFYLOFD> ~support
[03:22:33] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[03:22:34] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[03:22:35] <PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[03:22:35] <Riffsyphon1024> The page is just so large that it can hinder interest in voting.
[03:22:35] <CC7567> ~support
[03:22:36] <PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support vote counted.
[03:22:36] <Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[03:22:36] <Calrayn> ~support
[03:22:36] <PurpleTentacle> Calrayn: Support vote counted.
[03:22:37] <PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[03:22:37] <Darth_Culator> ~support
[03:22:37] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[03:22:38] <Toprawa> ~support
[03:22:38] <exiledjedi> ~support
[03:22:38] <jSarek> ~support
[03:22:38] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[03:22:38] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[03:22:38] <PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[03:22:39] <Jangsworth> ~support
[03:22:39] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support vote counted.
[03:22:42] <dogma> ~support
[03:22:42] <PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted.
[03:22:44] <ecks> ~support
[03:22:44] <MasterFred> ~support
[03:22:44] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[03:22:44] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
[03:22:44] <PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[03:22:45] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[03:22:45] <grunny> ~support
[03:22:45] <PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[03:22:51] <Tommy9281> ~support
[03:22:51] <Jangsworth> Anyone else?
[03:22:51] <PurpleTentacle> Tommy9281: Support vote counted.
[03:22:56] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[03:22:56] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[03:23:04] <Jangsworth> ~close
[03:23:04] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is closed.
[03:23:06] <Jangsworth> ~tally
[03:23:06] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support: 18
[03:23:09] <Riffsyphon1024> Abstain.
[03:23:13] <IFYLOFD> Yay, my thing is unanimous
[03:23:14] <Jangsworth> Motion passed
[03:23:16] <IFYLOFD> I win Mofference
[03:23:19] <Jangsworth> Onto the next
[03:23:20] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +m
[03:23:20] <Cal_Jedi> XD
[03:23:29] <Jangsworth> Go ahead Tope
[03:23:29] <Darth_Culator> So, "All film quotes will have their required support votes reset, all other quotes will have their required support votes reset at +20 or after two years from first nomination."
[03:23:31] <Jangsworth> You have the floor
[03:23:33] <Jangsworth> MOVING ON
[03:23:37] <Jangsworth> Agenda 3
[03:23:38] <jSarek> I really don't want to see even the best quotes get featured multiple times in two years, but I can live with it.
[03:23:44] <Jangsworth> Jsarek, please
[03:23:47] <Jangsworth> We are moving on
[03:23:53] <Tommy9281> let people talk if they have points to make
[03:23:56] <Tommy9281> slow down
[03:23:56] <Jangsworth> Take all other discussion elsewhere
[03:24:02] <Jangsworth> No the poll is closed
[03:24:04] <Darth_Culator> Settle.
[03:24:07] <Jangsworth> and we are going to agenda 3
[03:24:09] <Cal_Jedi> Tope has tehf loor.
[03:24:12] <Cal_Jedi> the floor*
[03:24:12] <Jangsworth> Tope has the floor
[03:24:18] <Jangsworth> If you don't like, then you can leave, I'm sorry
[03:24:20] <Toprawa> Ok.
[03:24:22] <Jangsworth> Let's proceed
[03:24:25] <Tommy9281> Indeed
[03:24:27] <jSarek> Jangsworth: When I hit "enter," that WAS still the topic. Lag sucks.
[03:24:28] <Toprawa> ...
[03:24:39] <Toprawa> My lag is bad too...ok...
[03:24:46] <Toprawa> This is a multi-part vote, so bear with me
[03:24:53] <Riffsyphon1024> Agreed, the Mofference is going too fast for responses.
[03:25:00] <Darth_Culator> Too crowded. This never happens. :P
[03:25:06] <Toprawa> I can wait. :P
[03:25:18] <Toprawa> This is about citation template standardization.
[03:25:19] <Cal_Jedi> With all due respect, Tope /does/ have the floor right now.
[03:25:23] <Toprawa> Seriously
[03:25:25] <Toprawa> Shut the fuck up, people :P
[03:25:30] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -ooo Cal_Jedi CC7567 Darth_Culator
[03:25:31] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -oooo ecks GreenTentacle grunny IFYLOFD
[03:25:31] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -oooo Jangsworth jSarek MasterJonathan Nuku-Nuku
[03:25:47] <Toprawa> Ok, as I said, please bear with me:
[03:25:52] *** Parts: Jangsworth (~JangFett@wookieepedia/administrator/JangFett) ()
[03:25:56] *** Joins: Jangsworth (~JangFett@wookieepedia/administrator/JangFett)
[03:25:56] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Jangsworth
[03:26:00] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -ooo PurpleTentacle Riffsyphon1024 Tommy9281
[03:26:06] <Jangsworth> Okay now we're ready
[03:26:40] <Toprawa> Citation templates with multiple parameters were designed for just that use.
[03:26:53] <Toprawa> For example, {{WEG|My Big Adventure|Shadows of the Empire Sourcebook}}
[03:27:01] <Toprawa> Not {{WEG|Shadows of the Empire Sourcebook}}
[03:27:29] <Toprawa> I propose simply that citation templates designed for the purpose of citing multiple parameters in a single reference may not be used merely to adorn the name of a source.
[03:27:43] <Toprawa> Otherwise we're just using templates for the sake of having a template, and it kind of defeats the purpose
[03:28:09] <Toprawa> That's Part I.
[03:28:12] <Toprawa> Please open discussion.
[03:28:17] <Jangsworth> The floor is now open
[03:28:19] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -m
[03:28:20] <MasterJonathan> Full support. This has annoyed me for years.
[03:28:21] <Cal_Jedi> Makes complete sense to me.
[03:28:27] <exiledjedi> Yes
[03:28:29] <grunny> sure
[03:28:31] <IFYLOFD> Yup
[03:28:32] <Supreme_Emperor> makes a lot of sense
[03:28:33] <MasterFred> So, let me get this straight.
[03:28:38] <jSarek> I think the opposite. While I originally didn't like the templates, we have enough of these templates now that bare citations look out of place in a lot of articles. Perhaps we should look to templating ALL citations.
[03:28:39] <Calrayn> Basically, this outlaws crap like {{LFC}}
[03:28:41] <CorellianPremier> Examples of when to use it then?
[03:28:44] <Riffsyphon1024> I would need to see an in-wiki example.
[03:28:46] <Darth_Culator> But... we like pretty icons.
[03:28:51] <Calrayn> Riff: And {{WEG|Shadows of the Empire Sourcebook}}
[03:29:08] <Jangsworth> I agree with Tope
[03:29:11] <Toprawa> Templates with multiple parameters will only be used for the use of populating those parameters, not just one
[03:29:14] <MasterFred> Yeah, I'm kind of confused.
[03:29:21] <MasterFred> Ah
[03:29:21] <Toprawa> as I said: {{WEG|Story|Sourcebook}}, not just {{WEG|Sourcebook}}
[03:29:45] <MasterFred> So, basically only used if a spot in the source needs to be directly referenced instead of the entire source?
[03:29:52] <Toprawa> Yes
[03:29:54] <Toprawa> Exactly
[03:30:00] <ecks> this is fine with me
[03:30:01] <Toprawa> That's the point of having the citation template.
[03:30:01] <CorellianPremier> great, that makes sense
[03:30:02] <Calrayn> Yeah, like TORcite
[03:30:03] <Riffsyphon1024> So more specific?
[03:30:03] <MasterFred> I concur.
[03:30:05] <Toprawa> Not the other way around
[03:30:06] <Supreme_Emperor> this sounds quite reasonable
[03:30:18] <Darth_Culator> So create new single-parameter templates to preserve the pretty icons. WE MUST HAVE PRETTY ICONS.
[03:30:27] <CC7567> would this also mean using {{CSWECite|I|76|Blah blah blah}} instead of {{CSWECite}}?
[03:30:31] <Riffsyphon1024> The story that features the item, not just the whole dern book?
[03:30:36] <CC7567> cuz I've seen {{CSWECite}} by itself in some places
[03:30:37] <Toprawa> That's a separate point, CC
[03:30:42] <Toprawa> I'm coming to that next
[03:30:44] <CC7567> ok
[03:30:53] <Toprawa> Riff> Yes
[03:30:57] <Riffsyphon1024> Okay.
[03:30:58] <Jangsworth> Anyone else have anything to add?
[03:31:03] <Jangsworth> Before we begin the poll
[03:31:23] <jSarek> I hate to agree with joking!Culator, but his sarcastic self is right. Icons are pretty, and quickly identify what kind of source an article is.
[03:31:26] <Toprawa> One user in particular went through and started adding {{WEG|Sourcebook}} to everything, and I think it created a bad precedent
[03:31:35] <Riffsyphon1024> I like icons.
[03:31:40] <Toprawa> As I said, that's not the purpose for why the template was designed
[03:31:50] <Toprawa> If we have an icon for one thing, why not just have icons for everything?
[03:31:54] <dogma> pretty icons = awesome
[03:31:54] <Calrayn> Same with {{LFC}}
[03:31:58] <jSarek> Tope: So we change the purpose. We don't even have to change their functionality.
[03:31:58] <Toprawa> It gets out of hand
[03:32:04] <Cal_Jedi> Per Tope
[03:32:08] <Cal_Jedi> It would turn out to be ridiculous.
[03:32:13] <jSarek> Tope: As far as citations go ... exactly my point.
[03:32:24] <exiledjedi> For large articles doesn't adding more icons slow the loading time down?
[03:32:27] <MasterFred> I really like the pretty icons, but that doesn't make them practical.
[03:32:31] <Toprawa> We don't need icons for everything.
[03:32:35] <Jangsworth> heh agreed
[03:32:37] <Toprawa> It gets out of hand
[03:32:41] <jSarek> Have a template of some kind for EVERYTHING cited. Del Rey, Dark Horse, Marvel, everything.
[03:32:45] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[03:32:45] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: There is no open vote on this channel.
[03:32:49] <Calrayn> Or LFC
[03:32:50] <Jangsworth> Hang on, MJ :P
[03:32:50] <Toprawa> Yeah, that's ridiculous
[03:32:56] <Supreme_Emperor> much as we all like pretty icons, they could definitely get out of hand
[03:32:59] <MasterJonathan> Sorry. My voting finger is getting itchy. :P
[03:33:00] <Jangsworth> Once we're all good to go, I'll open the poll
[03:33:03] <Cal_Jedi> XD
[03:33:03] <Jangsworth> np :P
[03:33:04] <Calrayn> LFC exists just to showcase that it's from the LFC campaign.
[03:33:06] <Toprawa> I'm done
[03:33:11] <Cal_Jedi> I'm ready.
[03:33:14] <Cal_Jedi> As is MJ. :P
[03:33:17] <Jangsworth> Let me know if you guys are ready
[03:33:18] <Calrayn> Go
[03:33:19] <Supreme_Emperor> :P
[03:33:21] <Jangsworth> We will begin the poll
[03:33:22] <Toprawa> Go
[03:33:23] <jSarek> Calrayn: It's all one campaign, with separate stories.
[03:33:24] <CorellianPremier> let 'er rip
[03:33:25] <Riffsyphon1024> It's reasonable to identify it with something we all recognize.
[03:33:26] <Jangsworth> ~open
[03:33:26] <Trip391> Ready
[03:33:27] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is open.
[03:33:27] <jSarek> Just like a sourcebook.
[03:33:28] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[03:33:28] <Jangsworth> Voting is now open
[03:33:29] <PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[03:33:29] <Trip391> ~support
[03:33:29] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[03:33:29] <PurpleTentacle> Trip391: Support vote counted.
[03:33:29] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[03:33:30] <Riffsyphon1024> ~support
[03:33:30] <PurpleTentacle> Riffsyphon1024: Support vote counted.
[03:33:31] <Toprawa> ~support
[03:33:31] <MasterFred> ~support
[03:33:31] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[03:33:31] <PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[03:33:32] <IFYLOFD> ~support
[03:33:33] <Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[03:33:33] <Calrayn> ~support
[03:33:33] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[03:33:33] <ecks> ~support
[03:33:33] <PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[03:33:33] <PurpleTentacle> Calrayn: Support vote counted.
[03:33:33] <jSarek> ~oppose
[03:33:33] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[03:33:33] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
[03:33:33] <PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Oppose vote counted.
[03:33:34] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[03:33:34] <CC7567> ~support
[03:33:34] <PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support vote counted.
[03:33:34] <Jangsworth> ~support
[03:33:35] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support vote counted.
[03:33:38] <Jangsworth> Anyone else?
[03:33:39] <dogma> ~support
[03:33:39] <exiledjedi> ~support
[03:33:39] <PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted.
[03:33:39] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[03:33:43] <Tommy9281> ~support
[03:33:43] <PurpleTentacle> Tommy9281: Support vote counted.
[03:33:43] <Jangsworth> Anyone?
[03:33:48] <Jangsworth> 10 seconds
[03:33:52] <grunny> ~support
[03:33:52] <PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[03:33:58] <Jangsworth> 5
[03:34:01] <Jangsworth> ~close
[03:34:02] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is closed.
[03:34:03] <Jangsworth> ~tally
[03:34:03] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Oppose: 1
[03:34:04] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support: 17
[03:34:07] <Jangsworth> Motion passed
[03:34:13] <Jangsworth> Onto Agenda 4
[03:34:16] <Toprawa> Jang
[03:34:19] <Cal_Jedi> I believe Tope had a part 2
[03:34:24] <Jangsworth> Right
[03:34:25] <Toprawa> I said my agenda is multiple parts.
[03:34:29] <Toprawa> Four, to be exact :P
[03:34:36] <Cal_Jedi> :o
[03:34:36] <Jangsworth> Okay nvm
[03:34:43] <Jangsworth> Okay
[03:34:43] <CC7567> let's go
[03:34:44] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +m
[03:34:44] <Toprawa> If I may, Part II.
[03:35:04] <Toprawa> That was for the purpose of multiple-parameter templates, like WEG.
[03:35:40] <Toprawa> Now, I suggest we restrict the use of single-parameter citation templates just for the sake of having a picture.
[03:35:46] <Toprawa> To my knowledge, only one of these currently exists anyway.
[03:35:48] <Toprawa> LFC
[03:36:13] <Toprawa> My reasoning is the same: it's unnecessary, and it has the potential to get out of hand; we don't need pictures just to have pictures
[03:36:15] <Toprawa> Please open the floor.
[03:36:18] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -m
[03:36:22] <ecks> I don't see any use for single-parameter citation templates
[03:36:22] <Jangsworth> The floor is now open for debate
[03:36:25] <Cade> Support completely
[03:36:27] <MasterJonathan> Full support again.
[03:36:36] <CorellianPremier> i think I agree
[03:36:40] <Riffsyphon1024> Unclear.
[03:36:42] <Darth_Culator> !no
[03:36:43] <Nuku-Nuku> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
[03:36:43] <exiledjedi> I've always though that the LFC template was useless.
[03:36:46] <IFYLOFD> Mhm
[03:36:51] <Cal_Jedi> sounds solid.
[03:36:52] <jSarek> For consistency of look with multi-parameter template, we should either remove pictures from the multi-parameter ones, or allow these to exist.
[03:37:03] <Toprawa> It's not inconsistent, jSarek
[03:37:12] <Toprawa> It's consistent because only multiple-parameter sources have pictures.
[03:37:20] <Toprawa> LFC is the only that does this
[03:37:32] <MasterFred> They don't all have to be the same. for the system to be consistant.
[03:37:33] <MasterFred> I support
[03:37:34] <Riffsyphon1024> And how many articles use LFC?
[03:37:41] <Jangsworth> Per MJ
[03:37:42] <Cade> The pictures signify that they're different from standard citations, like ''[[Star Wars: The Old Republic]]'' vs {{TORcite|type=codex|...}}
[03:37:46] <ecks> over nine thousand
[03:37:47] <jSarek> Multi-parameter sources shouldn't be different in any way than single parameter ones as far as whether they get a picture.
[03:37:48] <Toprawa> All the LFC articles; those can easily be removed
[03:38:04] <Toprawa> I don't see why not, jSarek
[03:38:09] <Toprawa> We like pictures, as long as they don't get out of hand
[03:38:15] <Toprawa> This has been our system for years, and I think we all like it
[03:38:25] <Riffsyphon1024> What is considered out of hand?
[03:38:26] <Toprawa> As I said, LFC is the only one that's different
[03:38:31] <Darth_Culator> I may be alone here, but I think we need more decorative elements, not fewer.
[03:38:32] <ecks> Creating a citation template just for the sake of it seems pretty redundant
[03:38:34] <Toprawa> Pictures for every template is out of hand, Riff
[03:38:37] <Darth_Culator> People like them.
[03:38:40] <Toprawa> That's what jSarek wants, which is silly
[03:38:56] <Cade> Let's vote then
[03:38:58] <Jangsworth> Per Xd
[03:39:01] <Jangsworth> One second, Cade
[03:39:02] <Cal_Jedi> We should be looking more professional, not more like a teenage girls' musical.
[03:39:06] <jSarek> I liked it originally, but I've come to dislike how some citations stand out from other citations on the basis of whether the citation has multiple parameters. I think consistency would look better here.
[03:39:07] <MasterFred> per ecks 100%
[03:39:08] <Cade> There's clearly two sides to this argument now.
[03:39:08] <ecks> a citation template needs to have a purpose, and a citation template that only accepts one parameter isn't in any way useful
[03:39:13] <Riffsyphon1024> It would emphasize a sense of professionalism to have imagery.
[03:39:18] <grunny> what about {{TCW}}, that's technically a single parameter one...
[03:39:18] <Cade> No.
[03:39:27] <grunny> most of the time
[03:39:33] <Toprawa> TCW includes two fields: the show name and the episode name
[03:39:33] <Jangsworth> If we're good to go and ready to vote, let me know when you're done.
[03:39:37] <Supreme_Emperor> but having it for the sake of throwing in a picture would really be redundant, and unnecessary
[03:39:43] <Cade> TV episode citation templates directly signify that it's part of a larger work.
[03:39:48] <MasterJonathan> per Cade
[03:39:49] <Cal_Jedi> I'm ready. It makes total sense to me.
[03:39:55] <Jangsworth> Anyone else?
[03:40:01] <CorellianPremier> yrp
[03:40:02] <Toprawa> LFC is the only one that does this, as I've said now
[03:40:04] <MasterFred> Let's not forget that the more images are on a page the longer it takes to load.
[03:40:09] <Cal_Jedi> indeed
[03:40:10] <MasterJonathan> per Fred
[03:40:13] <Toprawa> indeed
[03:40:14] <jSarek> Adding a picture to a multi-parameter template is also unnecessary, and yet we do it with all of them. We could remove them from all of those templates, too.
[03:40:14] <exiledjedi> YEs
[03:40:14] <Jangsworth> True
[03:40:18] <Jangsworth> Fred
[03:40:22] <Supreme_Emperor> just to clarity, we're voting to keep pics limited to multiple parameter templates
[03:40:25] <jSarek> I think the pictures would look a little better, but I could go either way.
[03:40:25] <MasterFred> It's already hard enough to load Cade's TOR page.
[03:40:30] <Cal_Jedi> SE: yeah.
[03:40:32] <MasterFred> No need to tack five more minutes on it.
[03:40:33] <Jangsworth> yup
[03:40:34] <Supreme_Emperor> alright
[03:40:35] <Toprawa> yes, SE
[03:40:38] <Cade> That's a different matter. Let's vote.
[03:40:42] <Cal_Jedi> XD
[03:40:44] <Supreme_Emperor> vote now
[03:40:44] <Jangsworth> If we're good to , we're going to be voting now
[03:40:46] <Toprawa> Please open the vote, Jang
[03:40:46] <Jangsworth> ~open
[03:40:46] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is open.
[03:40:49] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[03:40:49] <dogma> ~support
[03:40:49] <PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[03:40:49] <PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted.
[03:40:49] <Cade> ~support
[03:40:49] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[03:40:50] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[03:40:50] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[03:40:50] <Darth_Culator> ~oppose
[03:40:50] <Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[03:40:50] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Oppose vote counted.
[03:40:50] <PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[03:40:50] <Jangsworth> ~support
[03:40:50] <jSarek> Fred: Those images are generally small, and repeated.
[03:40:51] <Toprawa> ~support
[03:40:51] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support vote counted.
[03:40:51] <ecks> ~support
[03:40:51] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[03:40:51] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[03:40:51] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
[03:40:51] <Riffsyphon1024> ~oppose
[03:40:52] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[03:40:52] <PurpleTentacle> Riffsyphon1024: Oppose vote counted.
[03:40:54] <Trip391> ~support
[03:40:54] <PurpleTentacle> Trip391: Support vote counted.
[03:40:54] <MasterFred> ~support
[03:40:55] <PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[03:40:57] <jSarek> ~oppose
[03:40:58] <PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Oppose vote counted.
[03:40:59] <exiledjedi> ~support
[03:41:00] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[03:41:04] <IFYLOFD> ~support
[03:41:04] <Jangsworth> Anyone else?
[03:41:04] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[03:41:08] <CC7567> ~support
[03:41:08] <PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support vote counted.
[03:41:13] <Jangsworth> 10 seconds
[03:41:22] <Jangsworth> 5
[03:41:26] <Jangsworth> ~close
[03:41:26] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is closed.
[03:41:29] <Jangsworth> ~tally
[03:41:29] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Oppose: 3
[03:41:29] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support: 14
[03:41:35] <Jangsworth> 2nd part passed. Onto Part 3
[03:41:37] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +m
[03:41:45] <Toprawa> Ok, Part III
[03:41:49] <Toprawa> Moving onto standardizing CSWECite
[03:42:00] <Toprawa> As we all know, I'm sure, our use of this is quite inconsistent
[03:42:23] <Toprawa> So I'm proposing a system that I think serves everyone's needs and basically follows what most of us do by standard now anyway
[03:42:38] <Toprawa> My proposal is: "CSWECite, including all parameters, must be used in individual citation references when applicable."
[03:42:51] <Toprawa> In other words, any time you use CSWECite in Notes and references, you need to use the template.
[03:42:59] <Toprawa> The second part of this is:
[03:43:09] <Toprawa> "CSWECite may not be used in the Sources list to denote individual entries, volumes, or page numbers. The only exception is when a subject is referenced in an entry but does not have a specific entry of its own."
[03:43:23] <Toprawa> In other words, don't use the template in Source unless the subject does not have an entry of its own
[03:43:31] <Toprawa> Sources*
[03:43:59] <Toprawa> Some people get into the habit of trying to list every single entry, which gets out of hand, especially for major subjects
[03:44:05] <Toprawa> Please open discussion
[03:44:17] <Toprawa> Wait
[03:44:25] <Jangsworth> Sure
[03:44:33] <Toprawa> I mean, ONLY use the template in Sources if the subject does NOT have an entry of its own
[03:44:35] <Toprawa> Ok, go
[03:44:42] <Jangsworth> The floor is now open
[03:44:43] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -m
[03:44:44] <MasterJonathan> Makes sense.
[03:44:44] <dogma> What happenes if it is mentioned only in its own entry? Do we use CSWECite?
[03:44:45] <ecks> strong support
[03:44:46] <Cal_Jedi> This is something that has always kind of bugged me. So full support.
[03:44:46] <MasterFred> Pretty much how I do it myself.
[03:44:47] <Tommy9281> So you mean to use the standard ”"[[Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia]]"” in the source list?
[03:44:50] <jSarek> The first part, I'm fine with. The second part ... what happens if an article has an entry, but there is also additional information to be gleaned from another entry?
[03:44:50] <Jangsworth> I agree with Tope
[03:44:51] <Cade> Yes
[03:44:55] <Supreme_Emperor> full support
[03:44:55] <Jangsworth> I understand what he means
[03:44:56] <Toprawa> Tommy: in 99% of cases, yes
[03:45:10] <Tommy9281> Like you said, as it largely has been.
[03:45:11] <Toprawa> There will be some cases where a subject does not have an entry in CSWE
[03:45:13] <Tommy9281> I agree.
[03:45:15] <Cade> Dogma: not in the sources section.
[03:45:20] <Toprawa> In which case we should specify for clarification where to findi t
[03:45:36] <ecks> what about jSarek's concern?
[03:45:40] <dogma> but if it has an entry, and no other ones mention it, we might as well clarfiy
[03:45:45] <Riffsyphon1024> I can agree with these points, though I may need to see this in CT where it can be broken down.
[03:45:59] <Toprawa> jSarek> That's not how we utilize any of our sources
[03:46:10] <Jangsworth> Why a CT?
[03:46:12] <Cade> That's why we have references.
[03:46:16] <Toprawa> It doesn't need a CT.
[03:46:18] <Riffsyphon1024> This appears to have some caveats depending on the subject that is referenced in CSWE.
[03:46:19] <Toprawa> This is very cut and dry
[03:46:22] <Cal_Jedi> That's why we have Mofferences. :P
[03:46:22] <jSarek> I'm also not sure we should be treating entries differently in the Sources as in the Notes and references. Why should the CSWE get a template in the Notes and refs, but not in the Sources?
[03:46:24] <Toprawa> Let's stay on topic
[03:46:26] <Supreme_Emperor> in those cases, the CSWECite could be used when referencing
[03:46:31] <ecks> yeah, "own entry" should take priority of "mention in other entry"
[03:46:35] <Tommy9281> It is very cut and dry.
[03:46:36] <IFYLOFD> Yeah, the same source shouldn't be listed in the Sources section twice
[03:46:37] <ecks> full support for this
[03:46:41] <Tommy9281> If I may
[03:46:41] <MasterFred> Sources are just meant to list the material it appears in. Notes and references specific refer to locations in those sources if necessary.
[03:46:43] <IFYLOFD> Per Ecks
[03:46:45] <Toprawa> jSarek, b/c it allow us to cite by individual entries and page numbers
[03:46:47] <Jangsworth> Sure Tommy
[03:46:48] <Toprawa> That's how we write articles
[03:46:49] <Cade> jSarek: that's asking for Revan to list the 100+ entries he's listed in.
[03:46:50] <MasterJonathan> per Fred
[03:46:55] <Toprawa> We don't list all that in the Sources list
[03:47:02] <Tommy9281> why clutter up the source list with a thousand different individual entries when they all appear in the same source? be specific in the references.
[03:47:07] <ecks> per Fred
[03:47:08] <jSarek> IFYLOFD: We do it all the time with WEG vignettes.
[03:47:11] <Cal_Jedi> Per Tommy
[03:47:14] <Toprawa> per Fred
[03:47:15] <Cade> Yep.
[03:47:16] <Cal_Jedi> and Fred
[03:47:18] <dogma> If an article has an entry, but is only mentioned in its own entry, then I think we should use CSWEcite for sources
[03:47:24] <dogma> as well
[03:47:30] <Cade> No
[03:47:33] <dogma> yes
[03:47:34] <MasterFred> I disagree.
[03:47:41] <ecks> I don't see any compelling reason to do that
[03:47:42] <Supreme_Emperor> per fred and tommy, sources should be listed once, and we can be more specific in the notes and references
[03:47:44] <Jangsworth> Disagree completely
[03:47:44] <Toprawa> per ecks
[03:47:48] <Cal_Jedi> Indeed.
[03:47:55] <IFYLOFD> Per Preemus
[03:47:59] <Cal_Jedi> this is why we have Notes and References
[03:48:16] <Cade> {{CSWECite}} is called a �citation� template, not a sources template
[03:48:23] <Jangsworth> I'll be more specific in a ref note but using CWSEcite in the source list is just unneeded imo
[03:48:23] <ecks> ^
[03:48:23] <Tommy9281> ^
[03:48:23] <Toprawa> exactly per Cade
[03:48:29] <Toprawa> CSWECite was never meant for the Sources list
[03:48:33] <Jangsworth> yeah
[03:48:38] <Supreme_Emperor> was it not originally intended to be used for referencing, not the sources list in the first place
[03:48:39] <MasterFred> This also coincides with most citation methods in real life.
[03:48:42] <jSarek> Cade: We use citation templates in sources all of the time. Same with Appearances.
[03:48:46] <ecks> being more specific with sourcing is good. but it can very well be kept in the notes and references section
[03:48:48] <Toprawa> It's for referencing, not Sources list
[03:48:54] <Jangsworth> Stay on topic
[03:48:59] <Cal_Jedi> Sounds like the details have been hammered out. Are we ready for a vote?
[03:49:04] <grunny> (may have been answered, but if so I missed it) what about if a subject doesn't have its own entry, but is mentioned in more than one other entry?
[03:49:12] <Riffsyphon1024> Then we make that point clear that it's only for citations.
[03:49:14] <Cade> That's the one exception
[03:49:14] <jSarek> Supreme_Emperor: Originally, the sources list WAS how we referenced things.
[03:49:24] <Cade> Was. Not anymore.
[03:49:25] <MasterJonathan> But it's not anymore.
[03:49:25] <jSarek> We haven't always had line-by-line citations.
[03:49:25] <Jangsworth> Okay guys
[03:49:29] <Jangsworth> We're going to vote on this
[03:49:30] <Toprawa> This isn't 2007, jSarek
[03:49:34] <Jangsworth> Then move onto Part IV
[03:49:35] <MasterJonathan> Forget 2006. This is 2014.
[03:49:35] <Jangsworth> Okay?
[03:49:37] <Jangsworth> ~open
[03:49:37] <Cal_Jedi> per Tope and MJ
[03:49:37] <Tommy9281> ''[[Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia]]'' in source list, specific {{CSWECite}} entries in references
[03:49:37] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is open.
[03:49:39] <dogma> ~oppose
[03:49:39] <PurpleTentacle> dogma: Oppose vote counted.
[03:49:41] <Jangsworth> POLL IS OPEN
[03:49:42] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[03:49:43] <PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[03:49:43] <Jangsworth> ~support
[03:49:43] <Cade> ~support
[03:49:43] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support vote counted.
[03:49:43] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[03:49:44] <MasterFred> ~support
[03:49:44] <IFYLOFD> ~support
[03:49:44] <PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[03:49:44] <Toprawa> ~support
[03:49:44] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[03:49:45] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[03:49:45] <Tommy9281> ~support
[03:49:45] <PurpleTentacle> Tommy9281: Support vote counted.
[03:49:45] <jSarek> ~oppose
[03:49:46] <PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Oppose vote counted.
[03:49:46] <ecks> ~support
[03:49:47] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[03:49:47] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[03:49:47] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
[03:49:47] <Trip391> ~support
[03:49:47] <Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[03:49:48] <PurpleTentacle> Trip391: Support vote counted.
[03:49:48] <exiledjedi> ~support
[03:49:48] <PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[03:49:48] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[03:49:48] <CC7567> ~support
[03:49:49] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[03:49:49] <PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support vote counted.
[03:49:49] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[03:49:58] <Jangsworth> 10 seconds
[03:50:01] <Riffsyphon1024> Abstain once again.
[03:50:01] <grunny> ~support
[03:50:02] <PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[03:50:03] <Jangsworth> Anyone else?
[03:50:11] <Jangsworth> 5
[03:50:16] <Jangsworth> ~close
[03:50:16] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is closed.
[03:50:18] <Jangsworth> ~tally
[03:50:18] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Oppose: 2
[03:50:18] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support: 15
[03:50:23] <Jangsworth> PArt III passed
[03:50:27] <Jangsworth> Go ahead for Part IV
[03:50:29] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +m
[03:50:32] <Toprawa> Ok, now we have another part, because Grunny brought up a good point.
[03:50:52] <Toprawa> Now that that's passed, how to handle subjects that don't have an entry must have multiple mentions in other entries.
[03:50:56] <Toprawa> We want to list all of them?
[03:51:10] <Toprawa> This has the potential get way out of hand
[03:51:14] <Toprawa> I'm just trying to think of an example
[03:51:19] <Toprawa> "Droid" or "Blaster" or something
[03:51:22] <Toprawa> But maybe not
[03:51:26] <Toprawa> I don't know
[03:51:29] <Toprawa> Please open for discussion
[03:51:45] <Jangsworth> Sure
[03:51:49] <Jangsworth> The floor is now open
[03:51:49] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -m
[03:51:50] <Tommy9281> No
[03:51:53] <Supreme_Emperor> if i may
[03:51:56] <IFYLOFD> Well
[03:51:57] <Jangsworth> Go ahead
[03:52:03] <Cade> Planet for example
[03:52:04] <IFYLOFD> We used to do this with Databank entries, correct?
[03:52:15] <IFYLOFD> I think we could just list them
[03:52:15] <Jangsworth> As a general note, please stay on topic and be respectful
[03:52:25] <Cade> Planet does not have an entry in the CSWE, but is mentioned in hundreds
[03:52:27] <MasterFred> I'd say just place a limit on it.
[03:52:33] <Toprawa> per Fred
[03:52:34] <Cade> 3
[03:52:35] <Supreme_Emperor> in the event a subject has no entry of their own, and is mentioned in multiple others, we could just list it under the sources once and just be specific with the references
[03:52:38] <MasterFred> more than two entries gets a general link
[03:52:41] <Riffsyphon1024> Per Fred.
[03:52:47] <dogma> per fred
[03:52:47] <Cade> I'd say 3
[03:52:49] <Trip391> Per Supreme
[03:52:49] <MasterFred> 1 or 2 gets individual entries
[03:52:57] <Toprawa> I'm ok with 5 even
[03:53:01] <Toprawa> But I'd go with 3
[03:53:01] <MasterFred> Yeah
[03:53:05] <Supreme_Emperor> per tope and fred
[03:53:06] <exiledjedi> 3 sounds good to me
[03:53:10] <MasterFred> Just threw out some small numbers.
[03:53:19] <MasterFred> I would also be ok with SE's suggestion.
[03:53:19] <ecks> pi
[03:53:30] <Toprawa> I'm ok with what SE says too
[03:53:31] <ecks> Supreme_Emperor, it might not always get referenced though
[03:53:39] <Tommy9281> ^
[03:53:41] <MasterFred> This is true.
[03:53:46] <Supreme_Emperor> in the case of something larger, like planet or something like that
[03:53:54] <ecks> 3 sounds like a good number though
[03:53:59] <Cade> {{C|Mentioned in numerous entries}}
[03:54:04] <Supreme_Emperor> per Cade
[03:54:07] <MasterJonathan> per Cade
[03:54:10] <Toprawa> per Cade
[03:54:11] <ecks> multiple rather than numerous
[03:54:12] <exiledjedi> Yeah, like that.
[03:54:14] <ecks> (imo)
[03:54:15] <Cade> K.
[03:54:16] <Jangsworth> Sure
[03:54:17] <Darth_Culator> ^
[03:54:17] <MasterFred> SE: My suggestion pretty much contains yours, just allowing small numbers of entries to be specified.
[03:54:18] <Jangsworth> Anyone else?
[03:54:19] <Toprawa> Multiple is better
[03:54:20] <Jangsworth> Ok
[03:54:20] <MasterJonathan> yeah, "multiple"
[03:54:21] <Supreme_Emperor> can always be more specific in the references if needed
[03:54:22] <Trip391> Per Cade
[03:54:23] <Riffsyphon1024> Per Cade, numerous.
[03:54:23] <Cal_Jedi> Yeah. multiple
[03:54:34] <Tommy9281> multiple rather than numerous.
[03:54:37] <Jangsworth> ^
[03:54:38] <ecks> so, basically
[03:54:46] <ecks> if it exceeds 3, use that {{c|}}
[03:54:48] <ecks> ?
[03:54:51] <Cade> Yes
[03:54:51] <Toprawa> So use {{C|Mentioned in multiple entries}} when something has more than 3?
[03:54:53] <Cal_Jedi> Time to vote for "numerous" or "multiple." jk :P
[03:54:55] <Toprawa> Ok
[03:54:57] <Jangsworth> Could we also create a template for it?
[03:54:57] <ecks> yeah, per Tope
[03:54:58] <Toprawa> I like this
[03:55:03] <Jangsworth> Instead of relying on {{C|?
[03:55:08] <grunny> Or add a parameter to CSWECite?
[03:55:10] <Toprawa> {{Jang}}
[03:55:11] <Cade> Maybe just add some code to CSWECite
[03:55:12] <MasterJonathan> Yes, template it.
[03:55:12] <Jangsworth> That too
[03:55:13] <Jangsworth> :D
[03:55:15] <Cal_Jedi> Would it be used much? (I'm not much familiar with this)
[03:55:18] <Supreme_Emperor> per above
[03:55:24] <Darth_Culator> YAY SOMEONE ELSE CODING THINGS
[03:55:24] <ecks> per grunny
[03:55:25] <Supreme_Emperor> yes
[03:55:30] <MasterFred> I like {{Jang}} :P
[03:55:33] <Supreme_Emperor> :P
[03:55:33] <Cal_Jedi> Then yeah. I'd be for a template.
[03:55:34] <Cade> I can get that
[03:55:40] <Cal_Jedi> And I'd support {{Jang}} :P
[03:55:43] <Tommy9281> i like parameters
[03:55:45] <Jangsworth> So we're voting on if it exceeds 3, we'll use some sort of template?
[03:55:49] <ecks> yep
[03:55:49] <Cade> Aye
[03:55:50] <Toprawa> yes
[03:55:52] <Cal_Jedi> yepper
[03:55:54] <Supreme_Emperor> i like this
[03:55:54] <Darth_Culator> {{CSWECite|Jang=1}}
[03:55:56] <Toprawa> {{Jang}}
[03:55:56] <Jangsworth> Okay let's take a vote
[03:55:57] <Riffsyphon1024> Yeah.
[03:55:57] <Jangsworth> :P
[03:55:58] <Toprawa> XD
[03:56:01] <Cal_Jedi> :D
[03:56:01] <Jangsworth> ~open
[03:56:02] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is open.
[03:56:02] <Supreme_Emperor> XD
[03:56:05] <Jangsworth> POLL IS OPEN
[03:56:05] <ecks> ~support
[03:56:05] <Cade> ~support
[03:56:06] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[03:56:06] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[03:56:06] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
[03:56:06] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[03:56:06] <MasterFred> ~support
[03:56:07] <Darth_Culator> ~support
[03:56:07] <PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[03:56:07] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[03:56:07] <grunny> ~support
[03:56:07] <Toprawa> ~support
[03:56:07] <PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[03:56:08] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[03:56:08] <Cal_Jedi> ~support FOR {{JANG}}
[03:56:08] <PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[03:56:08] <Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[03:56:08] <Jangsworth> ~support
[03:56:09] <PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[03:56:09] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[03:56:09] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support vote counted.
[03:56:09] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[03:56:09] <IFYLOFD> ~support
[03:56:10] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[03:56:11] <dogma> ~support
[03:56:11] <Riffsyphon1024> ~support
[03:56:11] <PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted.
[03:56:11] <PurpleTentacle> Riffsyphon1024: Support vote counted.
[03:56:12] <Jangsworth> haha
[03:56:13] <exiledjedi> ~support
[03:56:13] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[03:56:17] <dogma> night all, have to leave
[03:56:20] <ecks> bye dogma
[03:56:21] <Cal_Jedi> Later, dogma
[03:56:23] <Tommy9281> ~support
[03:56:23] <PurpleTentacle> Tommy9281: Support vote counted.
[03:56:23] <Jangsworth> Later dogma, thanks :)
[03:56:25] <Supreme_Emperor> night dogma
[03:56:28] *** Quits: dogma (redacted@wookieepedia/dogma) (Quit: Wikia webchat: http://irc.wikia.com/)
[03:56:28] <Jangsworth> Anyone else?
[03:56:29] <Toprawa> later, dogma
[03:56:32] <Jangsworth> 10 seconds
[03:56:41] <Jangsworth> 5
[03:56:44] <Jangsworth> ~close
[03:56:45] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is closed.
[03:56:46] <Jangsworth> ~tally
[03:56:46] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support: 16
[03:56:55] <Jangsworth> Part IV passed with flying colors
[03:56:58] <Toprawa> Ok, we have one more part now :P
[03:56:59] <Darth_Culator> HOORJ
[03:57:02] <Toprawa> that was an add-on :P
[03:57:03] <Jangsworth> Yup
[03:57:05] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +m
[03:57:10] <Jangsworth> Sure thing, you have the floor
[03:57:23] <Toprawa> Ok, last one.
[03:57:36] <Toprawa> This is for universal citation template usage.
[03:57:41] <Toprawa> I propose: "Available citation templates must be used in Appearances, Sources, and Notes and references whenever applicable"
[03:57:55] <Toprawa> No one should ever argue for not using more specific and clear referencing in a template
[03:58:00] <Toprawa> Go.
[03:58:15] <Jangsworth> The floor is now open
[03:58:17] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -m
[03:58:19] <Cade> ~support
[03:58:19] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: There is no open vote on this channel.
[03:58:23] <Jangsworth> Hang on Cade :P
[03:58:26] <Supreme_Emperor> :P
[03:58:27] <Cal_Jedi> :D
[03:58:32] <MasterJonathan> Wait, didn't we just vote to NOT use a citation template under Sources?
[03:58:38] <jSarek> But ... but ... you just made us NOT use a template in sources that we use in notes and references ...
[03:58:39] <Cal_Jedi> .#earlyvotingftw
[03:58:39] <exiledjedi> I assume the CSWECite template is an exception?
[03:58:42] <Cade> "whenever applicable"
[03:58:45] <Riffsyphon1024> Oh gosh.
[03:58:46] <Toprawa> That's the exception...obviously.
[03:58:48] <Jangsworth> Stay on topic, mind you, Caleth
[03:58:50] <Supreme_Emperor> that would be covered under whenever applicable
[03:58:50] <Toprawa> do I have to explain everything?
[03:58:52] <Cal_Jedi> sorry :P
[03:58:59] <Cal_Jedi> And yes. I like this.
[03:59:08] <Tommy9281> [Redacted by administration]
[03:59:21] <Toprawa> Do I need to amend this to satisfy jSarek?
[03:59:24] <Toprawa> I can do that.
[03:59:25] <Cal_Jedi> No.
[03:59:28] <Cal_Jedi> This makes sense.
[03:59:42] <jSarek> I was just going to suggest removing ALL templates from Sources and Appearances, so we can at least get those two sections looking coherent.
[03:59:45] <Toprawa> I think we should make jSarek can at least support /something/ at this Mofference
[03:59:49] <Cade> No
[03:59:51] <Toprawa> make sure8
[03:59:51] <Jangsworth> All right
[03:59:52] <Toprawa> *
[04:00:06] <Cade> Remove all of them? Definitely not.
[04:00:12] <Riffsyphon1024> It just needs to be made clear which templates are and are not being used in Sources or Notes and References.
[04:00:47] <Cal_Jedi> These laws will overlap each other to provide the full picture. I don't see any sort of confusion regarding it.
[04:00:53] <jSarek> Tope: I can't help it you're taking the whole thing in the exact opposite direction of where I would like to go. I'd like to see templates for all of our sources and citations, but that got ruled out. So I was going to suggest the
opposite, which I don't like, but we're ruling that out, now.
[04:00:54] <Cade> Aye
[04:01:08] <Toprawa> You know, all of these points should be outlined anyway in a subsection of the Layout Guide; are we ok with just leaving a note along with this proposal clarifying the exceptions?
[04:01:15] <Toprawa> Do I have to spell this out literally for this proposal?
[04:01:15] <jSarek> I just don't want those sections to look like a half-hearted hodgepodge that preferences some sources over others.
[04:01:15] <ecks> fine with me
[04:01:18] <Cade> Yep
[04:01:34] <MasterJonathan> Tope: fine with me
[04:01:39] <grunny> as long as the rules regarding CSWECite (and any other specific ones) are made clear above, I think it would fall under "whenever applicable" ...
[04:01:41] <Jangsworth> Few more minutes, then we'll take a vote on this. Tope has one more after this ninja agenda
[04:02:02] <Toprawa> I agree with grunny
[04:02:11] <Jangsworth> yeah
[04:02:12] <CorellianPremier> precisely
[04:02:17] <Supreme_Emperor> definitely
[04:02:17] <Toprawa> This can all be clarified in the LG very easily
[04:02:21] <Jangsworth> Sure
[04:02:26] <Jangsworth> So let's take a vote
[04:02:28] <MasterFred> /me likes this
[04:02:29] <Riffsyphon1024> Per Grunny's reasoning.
[04:02:29] <Jangsworth> ~open
[04:02:30] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is open.
[04:02:32] <Jangsworth> Poll is now open
[04:02:35] <Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[04:02:35] <MasterFred> ~support
[04:02:36] <PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[04:02:36] <PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[04:02:36] <Cade> ~support
[04:02:36] <Jangsworth> ~support
[04:02:37] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[04:02:37] <Toprawa> ~support
[04:02:37] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[04:02:37] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support vote counted.
[04:02:37] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[04:02:37] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[04:02:38] <CC7567> ~support
[04:02:38] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[04:02:38] <PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support vote counted.
[04:02:38] <grunny> ~support
[04:02:39] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[04:02:39] <PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[04:02:42] <IFYLOFD> ~support
[04:02:42] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[04:02:43] <exiledjedi> ~support
[04:02:43] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[04:02:45] <ecks> ~support
[04:02:45] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
[04:02:47] <Riffsyphon1024> ~support
[04:02:47] <PurpleTentacle> Riffsyphon1024: Support vote counted.
[04:02:52] <Jangsworth> Anyone else?
[04:02:53] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[04:02:53] <PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[04:02:55] <Jangsworth> 10 seconds
[04:03:03] <Jangsworth> 5 seconds
[04:03:10] <Jangsworth> 1.358 seconds
[04:03:13] <Jangsworth> ~close
[04:03:13] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is closed.
[04:03:14] <ecks> +1
[04:03:14] <jSarek> Abstention. I don't have it in me to oppose again, not something I would have voted for wholeheartedly if it had been our first agenda point.
[04:03:20] <Jangsworth> Np
[04:03:21] <Jangsworth> ~tally
[04:03:21] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support: 14
[04:03:25] <Jangsworth> Motion passed
[04:03:36] <Jangsworth> Onto Agenda item #4 unless Tope has Agenda 3.6 :P
[04:03:38] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +m
[04:03:41] <Toprawa> lolz
[04:03:48] <Jangsworth> go ahead :P
[04:03:50] <Toprawa> ok
[04:04:04] <Toprawa> According to WP:S, we place references immediately after punctuation
[04:04:06] <Toprawa> Everyone knows this
[04:04:24] <Toprawa> However, we do practice one exception to this rule, if you've paid attention
[04:04:28] <Toprawa> That's with dashes.
[04:04:44] <Toprawa> Example: Joe was born in 4 ABY[2]—a bad year for the Empire[3]—and lived a long life.
[04:05:06] <Toprawa> At the end of this WP:S sentence: "References go immediately after punctuation and outside of quotation marks, with no space between the end of a sentence and a reference tag.[2]"
[04:05:09] <Toprawa> I propose the following:
[04:05:34] <Toprawa> “One exception is the use of dashes (see WP:DASH). References should immediately precede dashes. Example: Joe was born in 4 ABY[2]—a bad year for the Empire[3]—and lived a long life."
[04:05:42] <Toprawa> Ok, floor open. Let's hear why jSarek doesn't like it.
[04:05:50] <Jangsworth> Sure thing
[04:05:52] <Jangsworth> Floor is now open
[04:05:54] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -m
[04:05:55] <IFYLOFD> I've actually always put references after dashes. Never been corrected :P
[04:05:55] <ecks> support
[04:05:58] <jSarek> Isn't there some rule of style we could adapt to this that would make sense? Because we also put punctutation inside of parentheses, for good reason. There are probably other punctuation marks where it would work, as well.
[04:05:59] <Cal_Jedi> Indeed. Excellent point.
[04:06:12] <MasterJonathan> Dashes and parentheses.
[04:06:18] <Cal_Jedi> ...this does make sense....
[04:06:22] <Jangsworth> Tope, I use to think the same
[04:06:23] <Riffsyphon1024> Um, yeah.
[04:06:26] <MasterJonathan> (though we rarely use parentheses)
[04:06:28] <Jangsworth> I like the preceding the bashes
[04:06:30] <jSarek> Tope: I like it, just trying to make sure we're covering all appropriate bases.
[04:06:32] <Jangsworth> dashes*
[04:06:50] <Toprawa> I like ref notes going outside the parentheses; it looks better
[04:06:54] <Riffsyphon1024> I thought this was the norm already. :S
[04:06:56] <Toprawa> the dash is awkward because it's so long
[04:07:02] <ecks> per Tope
[04:07:02] <Toprawa> it makes the ref note look weird and far away
[04:07:03] <Cal_Jedi> and for looks, it definitely looks better before the dash.
[04:07:05] <Cade> That's why we have references outside of {{C|}}
[04:07:06] <Supreme_Emperor> before definitely makes sense
[04:07:09] <Jangsworth> Anyone else like to add something?
[04:07:14] <Cal_Jedi> Otherwise, it looks almost like it's trying to reference the following sentence.
[04:07:15] <Jangsworth> yeah
[04:07:37] <MasterFred> I like outside parenth.
[04:07:45] <Toprawa> per Cal
[04:07:46] <grunny> " where a reference applies only to material within parentheses, the ref tags belong just before the closing parenthesis."
[04:07:49] <jSarek> Ref notes for things inside of parentheses should go inside of parentheses.
[04:07:56] <jSarek> Per Grunny.
[04:08:09] <Riffsyphon1024> But this is more clarification so I have to go with it.
[04:08:23] <Toprawa> If you want to vote on parentheses, I would request that be a separate vote so this doesn't potentially derail the dash proposal
[04:08:23] <Cal_Jedi> Indeed. This is talking about dashes, not parentheses, though.
[04:08:25] <grunny> for reference, I stole that from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:REFPUNC#Punctuation_and_footnotes
[04:08:28] <Jangsworth> So what should we vote on to clarify?
[04:08:39] <Cal_Jedi> Let's stick with the dash for now, IMO.
[04:08:39] <Supreme_Emperor> just on what Tope\s proposing
[04:08:45] <jSarek> Ah, so we do already have it spelled out? Good enough.
[04:08:48] <Jangsworth> Sure
[04:08:49] <Supreme_Emperor> leave everything else for a separate vote
[04:08:55] <Jangsworth> If everyone is ready, I'll open the poll
[04:08:56] <MasterFred> Yeah
[04:08:56] <MasterJonathan> Vote on the dash and then discuss the parentheses.
[04:09:01] <Jangsworth> Sure
[04:09:06] <Jangsworth> Voting on the dash
[04:09:07] <Jangsworth> ~open
[04:09:07] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is open.
[04:09:08] <grunny> jSarek: no that's Wikipedia :P
[04:09:08] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[04:09:08] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[04:09:08] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[04:09:08] <PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[04:09:11] <Toprawa> ~support
[04:09:11] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[04:09:12] <Jangsworth> ~support
[04:09:12] <MasterFred> ~support
[04:09:12] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support vote counted.
[04:09:12] <PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[04:09:12] <jSarek> ~Support
[04:09:13] <PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[04:09:13] <Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[04:09:13] <PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[04:09:15] <Cade> ~support
[04:09:15] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[04:09:16] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[04:09:17] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[04:09:19] <IFYLOFD> ~support
[04:09:19] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[04:09:20] <grunny> ~support
[04:09:20] <PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[04:09:20] <exiledjedi> ~support
[04:09:20] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[04:09:27] <Riffsyphon1024> ~support
[04:09:27] <PurpleTentacle> Riffsyphon1024: Support vote counted.
[04:09:28] <Jangsworth> Anyone else for the dash vote?
[04:09:31] <Trip391> ~support
[04:09:31] <PurpleTentacle> Trip391: Support vote counted.
[04:09:38] <Jangsworth> 10 seconds
[04:09:41] <MasterFred> Woah, when'd Trip get here? :P
[04:09:45] <ecks> ~support 5 4 3 2 1
[04:09:45] <Jangsworth> ~close
[04:09:45] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
[04:09:45] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is closed.
[04:09:48] <ecks> ha
[04:09:48] <ecks> !
[04:09:48] <Jangsworth> ~tally
[04:09:49] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support: 15
[04:09:50] <Jangsworth> lol
[04:09:55] <Jangsworth> Motion passed
[04:10:01] <Jangsworth> Now onto the parentheses discussion
[04:10:05] <MasterJonathan> If it's only for the stuff in the parentheses, then it goes inside. Otherwise, it goes outside.
[04:10:12] <grunny> yes
[04:10:13] <jSarek> Adopt Wikipedia's language, per grunny.
[04:10:15] <CorellianPremier> yep
[04:10:19] <Riffsyphon1024> Basically.
[04:10:38] <Jangsworth> Tope?
[04:10:40] <Toprawa> I prefer to keep it uniform.
[04:10:43] <MasterFred> Question:
[04:10:47] <Toprawa> It's not like this is confusing for people
[04:10:52] <Toprawa> It looks better outside the )
[04:10:56] <MasterJonathan> What, Fred?
[04:11:14] <exiledjedi> Outside looks a lot better to me.
[04:11:15] <grunny> I don't think it does look better outside the ) tbh
[04:11:16] <MasterFred> if the parentheses are in the middle of a sentence, the ref would go inside the parentheses.
[04:11:33] <Riffsyphon1024> 20 minutes left for me in this Mofference.
[04:11:35] <MasterFred> But if the ref is at the end of the sentence, does the ref for the sentence go before the parentheses?
[04:11:38] <Jangsworth> Okay Riff
[04:11:40] <Toprawa> It's only if the wording inside the ( ) needs a specific ref note, Fred
[04:11:48] <Jangsworth> We'll get through this last part, unless there's more on the agenda
[04:12:09] <MasterJonathan> I honestly don't see a difference in looks between inside or outside.
[04:12:18] <MasterFred> Yeah, this really doesn't matter to me.
[04:12:38] <Jangsworth> Well should we decide on one?
[04:12:44] <grunny> So, for clarification, this proposal is to basically do what Wikipedia does and add the following: "where a reference applies only to material within parentheses, the ref tags belong just before the closing parenthesis."
[04:12:46] <Riffsyphon1024> That is a special case.
[04:12:59] <Toprawa> Well, we put the note after all punctuation, except the dashes now
[04:13:03] <Toprawa> We're so used to how that looks
[04:13:09] <Toprawa> And now we would potentially have one exception
[04:13:15] <Toprawa> Aside from the dashes, which is a special case
[04:13:21] <Toprawa> I think that's just weird
[04:13:31] <Riffsyphon1024> I'll agree with inside the parentheses as it IDs what is being cited.
[04:13:36] <MasterJonathan> Does this really matter that much? I mean, we don't use parentheses, like, hardly ever.
[04:13:42] <Supreme_Emperor> ^
[04:13:45] <Toprawa> I agree, MJ
[04:13:46] <Jangsworth> Unless it's in the infobox
[04:13:46] <MasterFred> I was thinking just that.
[04:13:52] <Jangsworth> (Outer Rim Sieges) as an example
[04:13:53] <Riffsyphon1024> But also per Jon
[04:13:54] <Toprawa> But if someone ever does use it, I'd like to see it outside
[04:13:59] <Jangsworth> We currently source outside it
[04:14:05] <Toprawa> It's not a big deal, but I'd prefer outside
[04:14:06] <Jangsworth> )[2]
[04:14:08] <MasterFred> The more I picture it, the more I like outside.
[04:14:11] <Toprawa> Let's just vote already
[04:14:11] <jSarek> Parentheses do the same thing as dashes do - they separate one set of information from another. I think it's weirder to treat them differently.
[04:14:14] <Jangsworth> Inside will look weird
[04:14:24] <Cal_Jedi> Let's propose that we do it outside.
[04:14:24] <Toprawa> But they look differently, jSarek
[04:14:25] <Supreme_Emperor> lets just leave it as is then, everything outside with the dash being the exception
[04:14:25] <Toprawa> that's the point
[04:14:27] <Riffsyphon1024> Aw rats. Maybe you're right.
[04:14:29] <Toprawa> the dash is jarring to look at it
[04:14:36] <CC7567> let's vote
[04:14:40] <Cade> ^
[04:14:44] <Jangsworth> So voting on sourcing on the outside of the parentheses?
[04:14:46] <MasterJonathan> We seem to have reached a stalemate. Can we just take a vote and move on with the agenda?
[04:14:49] <Cal_Jedi> People can vote support if they like it outside, oppose if they like it inside.
[04:14:50] <Riffsyphon1024> Main point: Don't use parentheses.
[04:14:54] <MasterFred> Jangeth voteth
[04:14:54] <Toprawa> per Riff
[04:14:54] <Cal_Jedi> ^
[04:14:55] <Toprawa> Thank you
[04:14:57] <Toprawa> Thank you
[04:14:59] <Toprawa> Thank you
[04:15:01] <Toprawa> Thank you
[04:15:02] <exiledjedi> Yeah, per Riff
[04:15:02] <Toprawa> Thank you
[04:15:03] <Cal_Jedi> XD
[04:15:04] <Toprawa> Thank you
[04:15:05] <Supreme_Emperor> yes
[04:15:06] <Toprawa> Thank you
[04:15:07] <MasterJonathan> Thank you
[04:15:07] <Toprawa> Thank you
[04:15:08] <Jangsworth> haha
[04:15:10] <Jangsworth> Okay
[04:15:11] <MasterJonathan> XD
[04:15:11] <Toprawa> Parentheses are a lazy way of not being able to say what you want succinctly enough
[04:15:11] <Trip391> vote
[04:15:12] <IFYLOFD> Grazie
[04:15:12] <CC7567> VOTE PLZ
[04:15:13] <Jangsworth> Let's vote
[04:15:16] <Jangsworth> CC pls
[04:15:16] <jSarek> Quit spamming. :-p
[04:15:18] <Jangsworth> ~open
[04:15:18] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is open.
[04:15:20] <Trip391> ~support
[04:15:20] <PurpleTentacle> Trip391: Support vote counted.
[04:15:21] <Jangsworth> VOTE NOW
[04:15:21] <Cade> ~support
[04:15:21] <CC7567> ~support
[04:15:21] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[04:15:22] <PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support vote counted.
[04:15:22] <Supreme_Emperor> !support
[04:15:22] <CorellianPremier> uh oh, skipping
[04:15:22] <Jangsworth> ~support
[04:15:23] <Nuku-Nuku> Supreme_Emperor: Error: "support" is not a valid command.
[04:15:23] <IFYLOFD> ~support
[04:15:23] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support vote counted.
[04:15:23] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[04:15:23] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[04:15:23] <PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[04:15:24] <ecks> ~support
[04:15:24] <Toprawa> Wait, what is this for?
[04:15:25] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
[04:15:25] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[04:15:26] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[04:15:27] <Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[04:15:27] <PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[04:15:28] <grunny> ~support
[04:15:28] <PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[04:15:28] <Jangsworth> Emperor, it's ~support
[04:15:32] <Cal_Jedi> outside the parentheses, Tope
[04:15:33] <Riffsyphon1024> No parentheses in the first place.
[04:15:35] <jSarek> ~support
[04:15:35] <PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[04:15:36] <Supreme_Emperor> typo
[04:15:36] <MasterFred> ~support
[04:15:37] <PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[04:15:42] <Jangsworth> Anyone else?
[04:15:43] <Toprawa> If this is for outside:
[04:15:45] <ecks> support is for proposer's idea, in this case outside
[04:15:45] <Toprawa> ~support
[04:15:46] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[04:15:47] <Toprawa> I was confused
[04:15:47] <Cal_Jedi> yes
[04:15:47] <Jangsworth> Wait
[04:15:50] <grunny> I have no idea what people are actually voting for
[04:15:50] <MasterJonathan> Exactly what are we voting on?
[04:15:50] <Jangsworth> Hold on, discuss after voting
[04:15:53] <grunny> :P
[04:15:53] <Jangsworth> HOLD ON
[04:15:56] <Jangsworth> ~close
[04:15:56] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is closed.
[04:15:57] <Cal_Jedi> wat
[04:15:58] <CC7567> support is for outside
[04:15:59] <ecks> pls
[04:15:59] <Toprawa> Jang, you never specificed what the vote was for
[04:16:00] <Jangsworth> ~tally
[04:16:00] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support: 13
[04:16:01] <Toprawa> specified*
[04:16:04] <CC7567> Cal specified it
[04:16:05] <Cade> Voting for Tope's initial proposal
[04:16:08] <exiledjedi> What was that voting for?
[04:16:11] <Cal_Jedi> per CC
[04:16:18] <Jangsworth> You guys need to understand. Don't pressure me and say vote now
[04:16:21] <Jangsworth> I WILL DECIDE THAT
[04:16:21] <CC7567> and no one contradicted Cal :P
[04:16:27] <MasterJonathan> See? People disagree on what was being voted on.
[04:16:31] <grunny> for the record, I think "Some text[1] (other text)[2] further text" looks weirder than "Some text[1] (other text[2]) further text"
[04:16:32] <Cal_Jedi> 8)
[04:16:33] <Toprawa> Cal's not running the meeting, though
[04:16:35] <Jangsworth> We discuss EVERYTHING BEFORE the poll. That's why I give you guys time
[04:16:36] <Toprawa> I'm following Jang's direction
[04:16:38] <Cal_Jedi> per Tope, but yeah. :P
[04:16:39] <Toprawa> ANd he didn't say anything
[04:16:43] <MasterFred> support means outside and oppose means inside
[04:16:47] <Toprawa> per Fred
[04:16:48] <Jangsworth> So please stop bitching and fighting /during/ the poll voting
[04:16:49] <Riffsyphon1024> If we use them, outside the parentheses.
[04:16:50] <Jangsworth> Okay?
[04:16:52] <Jangsworth> Got it?
[04:16:55] <Jangsworth> Discuss before
[04:16:56] <Cal_Jedi> yep
[04:16:58] <Jangsworth> I will open when it's time
[04:16:59] <Toprawa> Then tell us what the vote is for, Jang
[04:16:59] <jSarek> Wait, I thought support was support Grunny's proposal.
[04:17:01] <Cal_Jedi> Let's roll.
[04:17:03] <Jangsworth> When we have something to vote on
[04:17:12] <MasterFred> JSarek: It's not.
[04:17:12] <Cal_Jedi> Grunny didn't have an actual proposal, I didn't think.
[04:17:12] <CorellianPremier> I thought support was for the Wikipedia example
[04:17:12] <Jangsworth> So what's the general consensus?
[04:17:16] <grunny> The vote is whether or not to add the following: "where a reference applies only to material within parentheses, the ref tags belong just before the closing parenthesis."
[04:17:16] <exiledjedi> Should we do that over?
[04:17:19] <Toprawa> Everyone is confused because you didn't specify what we were voting for
[04:17:20] <Jangsworth> Clarify for the voters
[04:17:23] <Tommy9281> I thought we were going to White Castle
[04:17:24] <Jangsworth> Yes we are starting over
[04:17:29] <Cal_Jedi> XD Tommy
[04:17:35] <Toprawa> Listen everyone: SUPPORT for OUTSIDE, OPPOSE for INSIDE parentheses
[04:17:37] <Jangsworth> Now let's calmly discuss /then/ vote
[04:17:41] <Jangsworth> Per Tope
[04:17:46] <Jangsworth> Got it?
[04:17:47] <Jangsworth> ~open
[04:17:48] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is open.
[04:17:50] <Jangsworth> Poll is now open
[04:17:50] <Riffsyphon1024> ~support were we actually using parentheses in text
[04:17:51] <PurpleTentacle> Riffsyphon1024: Support vote counted.
[04:17:52] <CorellianPremier> ~oppose
[04:17:52] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Oppose vote counted.
[04:17:52] <Cade> ~support
[04:17:52] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[04:17:53] <Trip391> ~support Outside
[04:17:54] <PurpleTentacle> Trip391: Support vote counted.
[04:17:54] <Toprawa> ~support
[04:17:54] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[04:17:54] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[04:17:54] <Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[04:17:55] <PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[04:17:55] <PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[04:17:56] <Jangsworth> ~support
[04:17:56] <MasterFred> ~support
[04:17:56] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support vote counted.
[04:17:57] <PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[04:17:59] <exiledjedi> ~support
[04:18:00] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[04:18:01] <MasterJonathan> ~option3
[04:18:02] <CC7567> ~support
[04:18:02] <PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support vote counted.
[04:18:06] <ecks> ~support fo sure
[04:18:06] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
[04:18:07] <Jangsworth> heh MJ
[04:18:15] <Jangsworth> Anyone else?
[04:18:16] <grunny> This is a mess
[04:18:18] <grunny> :P
[04:18:20] <Jangsworth> I agree
[04:18:24] <Jangsworth> We need to stay on topic guys
[04:18:33] <IFYLOFD> ~support
[04:18:33] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[04:18:33] <Jangsworth> Discuss everyone before the poll
[04:18:42] <jSarek> Per grunny. I support his proposal, not the all-or-nothing thing made up above.
[04:18:42] <Jangsworth> Tope has something else to say once we're done
[04:18:44] <Jangsworth> ~close
[04:18:45] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is closed.
[04:18:45] <grunny> My proposal was "where a reference applies only to material within parentheses, the ref tags belong just before the closing parenthesis.", but that's not what the vote is...
[04:18:50] <Jangsworth> ~tally
[04:18:51] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Oppose: 1
[04:18:51] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support: 12
[04:18:52] <grunny> for some reason
[04:18:54] <Jangsworth> Motion passed
[04:18:59] <Jangsworth> Tope, you may proceed
[04:19:01] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +m
[04:19:22] <Toprawa> No, that was it for me. I'm not up until Item 11 now
[04:19:35] <Jangsworth> Oh I thought you wanted to say something else?
[04:19:38] <Jangsworth> If not then I'll go
[04:19:42] <Toprawa> Nope
[04:19:43] <Jangsworth> Agenda 5
[04:19:47] <Jangsworth> Sure thing man, thanks again
[04:19:50] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -o Toprawa
[04:19:52] <Jangsworth> Okay guys
[04:19:59] <Jangsworth> Okay, quite frankly, the Wookieepedia NewsNet has been collecting dust for months now. To make a long story short: News items now get posted sporadically. Imo, ever since Eyre stepped down from his canon update reporting duties,
the NewsNet has been in decline.
[04:20:06] <Jangsworth> I briefly took over for him but then I stopped toward late 2009 after I couldn't find a permanent replacement. Menkooroo, nearly a year and a half ago, gave his "interview" duties to Cal; Cal hasn't been keeping up with it because
he's rather busy in real life.
[04:20:12] <Jangsworth> We need to do something about this aging and dying Wook feature. I am proposing TWO OPTIONS to choose from. Please go to:
[04:20:16] <Jangsworth> http://jang.wikia.com/wiki/LegitNewsNet
[04:20:19] <Jangsworth> To see the options.
[04:20:25] <Jangsworth> I'm open to suggestions for either option, but I feel that these are the best go-to options. More modern, up-to-date, and a reduction of old aging relics, if you can see what I mean. As for the possible third option, that is open
for debate too, but I would recommend that we do not delve deeper into it (please read my comment in the link above).
[04:20:58] <Jangsworth> WE WILL DISCUSS AND VOTE AS FOLLOWS: ~support for option #1 ~oppose for option #2 now
[04:21:09] <Jangsworth> option #1*
[04:21:19] <Jangsworth> Then we'll discuss the other option
[04:21:25] <Jangsworth> I don't want to make this a clusterfuck
[04:21:32] <Jangsworth> You guys already showed me that
[04:21:44] <Jangsworth> With that being said, let's discuss option #1
[04:21:46] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -m
[04:21:48] <ecks> side proposal: make jang wiki OFOW
[04:21:49] <grunny> How about replace the feed with a twitter feed on the main page, and post to twitter if there's a new newsnet post?
[04:21:50] <Jangsworth> Floor is now open
[04:21:50] <Riffsyphon1024> That's interesting.
[04:21:52] <Cal_Jedi> I kind of like option #2. I know of a lot of websites that have a little box for Twitter posts, and it looks very stylish and up-to-date.
[04:21:53] <Toprawa> Well, I just posted a new blog for the first time since last summer, and Cav had some ideas for posting something soon, FWIW
[04:22:04] <MasterJonathan> Tope's blog today: http://wookieepedia.wordpress.com/2014/01/25/10-actors-you-never-knew-had-a-star-wars-credit/
[04:22:08] <jSarek> Per grunny.
[04:22:14] <ecks> we really need an on-wiki block. too bad the blog format sucks
[04:22:19] <Toprawa> We've been revitalizing our Social Media Empiah lately, so I'm hoping we can start using the NewsNet more
[04:22:20] <Cal_Jedi> And for the record, sorry everyone that I couldn't keep up with it. Way too much stuff IRL to keep on top of it.
[04:22:21] <Riffsyphon1024> Tope, should we tie this directly to our Facebook updates?
[04:22:31] <Jangsworth> I would like to restart the newsnet
[04:22:35] <Supreme_Emperor> per ecks, something site related would be nice
[04:22:35] <Toprawa> Anything we put on the NewsNet should go on FB, IMO
[04:22:35] <Jangsworth> personally
[04:22:42] <MasterJonathan> On-wiki news is far easier and quicker to update, since it's shorter and anyone can do it.
[04:22:51] <Jangsworth> If you guys want, I wouldn't mind leading it and taking care of all of those things I've presented
[04:22:52] <Riffsyphon1024> I agree that there shouldn't be two places on Wookiee for news.
[04:22:53] <Jangsworth> in my wiki page
[04:23:02] <Toprawa> Isn't that just what Wikia's Blog feature is?
[04:23:05] <Toprawa> I'd be scared to implement that
[04:23:11] <ecks> yeah, it has some issues
[04:23:12] <CC7567> yeah let's not try that
[04:23:14] <ecks> though...
[04:23:15] <Toprawa> Then any idiot can write some nonsense like you see on every other poorly run wiki
[04:23:18] <MasterFred> Per Tope. Plus, there's a fancy new blog there about cool stuff. For that I don't want to do away with the NewsNet. :P
[04:23:19] <Jangsworth> Wait, try what?
[04:23:20] <ecks> if we could make blog-posting admin only
[04:23:27] <ecks> and comments for registered editors only
[04:23:27] <Riffsyphon1024> I meant to note that our social media announcements are based on what is published on Wookiee first.
[04:23:31] <Jangsworth> Hold on,
[04:23:33] <ecks> it could be worth considering
[04:23:39] <Cade> How about we send this to SH?
[04:23:41] <Jangsworth> Staying on topic, do you guys like the newsnet option #1?
[04:23:44] <exiledjedi> I think option one is best.
[04:23:44] <Riffsyphon1024> SH
[04:23:45] <ecks> I agree with Cade
[04:23:50] <Jangsworth> No
[04:23:53] <Supreme_Emperor> per Cade
[04:23:55] <Jangsworth> Let's get some ideas down here
[04:23:55] <Toprawa> If we could restrict BLog creation somehow, I'd be interested in that
[04:24:00] <Jangsworth> That's why we're here guys
[04:24:03] <Darth_Culator> Dear god no not wikia blogs.
[04:24:05] <exiledjedi> Nothing happens with the SH...
[04:24:08] <MasterJonathan> Tope: A filter might work.
[04:24:08] <Jangsworth> I layed down everything in my wiki site
[04:24:11] <MasterFred> I like Option !. Revive the NewsNet.
[04:24:16] <Darth_Culator> "Oh, did we say you could restrict those? Sorry!"
[04:24:18] <Jangsworth> It's not Wiki blogs
[04:24:20] <Riffsyphon1024> We will need to talk to Wikia about restricting blogs.
[04:24:21] <Jangsworth> heh
[04:24:28] <Jangsworth> We will be using the Wordpress
[04:24:30] <ecks> if they can be restricted, then it's definitely an option
[04:24:32] <Toprawa> I like Option 1.
[04:24:43] <Cal_Jedi> If someone is dedicated to it, I'm a huge fan of Option 1.
[04:24:52] <ecks> I'm not sure how technically feasible it is though, or if Wikia even allows it
[04:24:54] <Jangsworth> So voting option #1. If we pass, then option #2 is moot. No reason to discuss it then
[04:24:58] <Cade> How about we vote ~support for Option1, and ~oppose for #2?
[04:24:59] <Darth_Culator> "Oh, yeah, we also can't turn them off! Soooorrryyy!!"
[04:25:01] <Cal_Jedi> But I don't want to say definitively, because I doubt I would be able to help out.
[04:25:02] <Jangsworth> Yes
[04:25:04] <Jangsworth> Cade
[04:25:05] <Riffsyphon1024> I say Wookieenews is still updated more frequently and should remain in its form.
[04:25:09] <Jangsworth> That's what we're voting on
[04:25:18] <MasterJonathan> Per Riff
[04:25:18] <Jangsworth> Okay if we're all good, I'll open the poll
[04:25:21] <Jangsworth> Any last words?
[04:25:29] <Toprawa> Wait
[04:25:30] <ecks> ~option3
[04:25:32] <Jangsworth> Get them in because I don't want to see any discussion during vote time
[04:25:37] <Toprawa> If we're voting to replace Wookieenews, I'm against that
[04:25:49] <Cal_Jedi> Option 1 is to revitalize, I believe. Correct?
[04:25:49] <Jangsworth> Well
[04:25:50] <MasterFred> support is for option 1 and oppose is option 2
[04:25:50] <Jangsworth> No
[04:25:53] <jSarek> Jang: Then make the lag go away. :-p
[04:25:54] <Jangsworth> Let me explain
[04:25:56] <Toprawa> I'm not exactly sure what we're voting on exactly; you say item 1, but that has a lot of potentialities and not many definitive ideas
[04:26:04] <Jangsworth> We will be MERGING THE WOOKIEENEWS with the NEWSNET
[04:26:08] <Jangsworth> We will still have news
[04:26:18] <Toprawa> Ok, I don't like that
[04:26:19] <MasterJonathan> No
[04:26:23] <Jangsworth> Having 2 news features on the news is redundant
[04:26:26] <Supreme_Emperor> we should keep them separate
[04:26:27] <Toprawa> I like them separate, because they're not exactly the same
[04:26:30] <Tommy9281> Cal_Jedi:
[04:26:32] <ecks> per Tope
[04:26:34] <Tommy9281> mt
[04:26:36] <MasterJonathan> Keep the on-wiki template. It's far easier and quicker to update.
[04:26:37] <Supreme_Emperor> one for off site news, and one for directly site related stuff
[04:26:38] <Riffsyphon1024> I'm liking parts of Option 1. Wookieenews is our news center though.
[04:26:39] <ecks> I think this issue could be better discussed in the SH
[04:26:42] <Jangsworth> We will be having in-wook and outside wook news item on the newsite
[04:26:42] <Cade> ^
[04:26:43] <Jangsworth> guys
[04:26:46] <CC7567> the NewsNet should be for stuff that requires further elaboration than what's currently on Wookieenews
[04:26:46] <Jangsworth> MERGING
[04:26:48] <Jangsworth> That
[04:26:49] <Toprawa> the NewsNet doesn't have to be for regular news updates, it's about unique content that we add, like interviews and such
[04:26:52] <Jangsworth> That's what it means
[04:26:57] <jSarek> Per ecks.
[04:27:00] <Cal_Jedi> Tommy, what?
[04:27:07] <Riffsyphon1024> The newsnet can report things about the wiki and members to Wookieenews.
[04:27:11] <Jangsworth> We're not taking it to a SH
[04:27:11] <Tommy9281> "yes," and that was a mistake
[04:27:14] <MasterFred> I say WookieeNews is for news only and the NewsNet is sort of an online magazine.
[04:27:18] <Cal_Jedi> ah
[04:27:21] <Toprawa> per Fred
[04:27:22] <MasterFred> A name change may be needed for the NewsNet
[04:27:22] <MasterJonathan> But then it could be days before an announcement from Lucasfilm shows up on the main page
[04:27:22] <jSarek> This is one of those things detailed enough that punting it to the SH or CT would probably be the best course of action.
[04:27:25] <Riffsyphon1024> A subsection of Wookieenews.
[04:27:26] <MasterJonathan> Per Fred
[04:27:26] <ecks> newsnet is more meta
[04:27:34] <Toprawa> The NewsNet's byline is: "Beyond the internet's premiere fan-run Star Wars wiki "
[04:27:39] <Toprawa> That means it's beyond regular wiki material
[04:27:43] <Toprawa> Which is what it is right now
[04:27:43] <Cal_Jedi> True.
[04:27:44] <Jangsworth> We're not taking it to a SH
[04:27:46] <Toprawa> It's not for general news
[04:27:48] <Riffsyphon1024> Yeah, Per Fred.
[04:27:50] <Cade> Why not
[04:28:00] <Jangsworth> Because that's why we have Mofferences, Cade and jSarek
[04:28:02] <Cade> It's not making any progress here.
[04:28:04] <Cal_Jedi> I say we vote to revitalize NewsNet and keep both.
[04:28:04] <Jangsworth> We're discussing it here
[04:28:10] <ecks> we really need to re-evaluate our entire news approach
[04:28:16] <Jangsworth> That's why we have these dedicated times to discuss it
[04:28:20] <MasterJonathan> Jang: Exactly how do you propose to post the latest major announcements from Lucasfilm in 5 or 10 minutes?
[04:28:20] <jSarek> Jang: We often punt things that are too complicated from the Mofference to the boards.
[04:28:24] <Riffsyphon1024> We do need to beef up internal news.
[04:28:29] <grunny> Jang: a mofference is for something that can be hammered out fast, this probably can't be
[04:28:30] <Cade> But there are other things to discuss.
[04:28:33] <Jangsworth> What do you mean MJ?
[04:28:40] <ecks> this is a complex issue
[04:28:40] <Riffsyphon1024> But Wookieenews should stay.
[04:28:50] <ecks> there are tons of technical aspects that would need to be ironed out
[04:28:59] <Riffsyphon1024> As the Newsnet, I'm not sure.
[04:29:01] <MasterFred> This is taking forever. I say move to SH and hammer it out there.
[04:29:06] <MasterJonathan> If you want to do things entirely through the blog rather than a main page template, it will take a lot longer to post stuff.
[04:29:09] <Riffsyphon1024> SH please.
[04:29:11] <Toprawa> Wookieenews is our only source of news updates; it's not a good idea to shunt that off to the NewsNet, where people have to open up a new tab or window to read its content
[04:29:14] <MasterJonathan> SH please.
[04:29:22] <Cade> ^
[04:29:23] <Jangsworth> We are voting for option #1 ~support or ~oppose. If oppose, then someone start some SH
[04:29:25] <Jangsworth> Ok?
[04:29:26] <Cal_Jedi> What we can do is vote to keep both and to move the discussion on the revitalization process to the SH
[04:29:28] <Jangsworth> I won't get involved
[04:29:30] <Supreme_Emperor> the SH would be better, then we could hammer out our ideas, and have some additional time to think about it
[04:29:30] <Jangsworth> ~open
[04:29:31] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is open.
[04:29:33] <ecks> I oppose everything
[04:29:35] <Cade> ~oppose
[04:29:35] <Jangsworth> VOTING IS OPEN
[04:29:35] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Oppose vote counted.
[04:29:35] <MasterJonathan> ~oppose
[04:29:35] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Oppose vote counted.
[04:29:38] <Toprawa> ~oppose
[04:29:39] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Oppose vote counted.
[04:29:40] <jSarek> ~oppose
[04:29:40] <PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Oppose vote counted.
[04:29:41] <Supreme_Emperor> ~oppose
[04:29:41] <PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Oppose vote counted.
[04:29:42] <Tommy9281> ~oppose
[04:29:42] <PurpleTentacle> Tommy9281: Oppose vote counted.
[04:29:43] <grunny> ~oppose
[04:29:43] <PurpleTentacle> grunny: Oppose vote counted.
[04:29:43] <Riffsyphon1024> Most importantly fans see us by our news now.
[04:29:43] <ecks> ~oppose and take to SH
[04:29:43] <CC7567> ~oppose
[04:29:43] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Oppose vote counted.
[04:29:44] <PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Oppose vote counted.
[04:29:50] <MasterFred> ~oppose
[04:29:50] <PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Oppose vote counted.
[04:29:51] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[04:29:51] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[04:29:56] <Jangsworth> Anyone else?
[04:29:58] <IFYLOFD> ~oppose
[04:29:58] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Oppose vote counted.
[04:30:01] <Cal_Jedi> abstain
[04:30:03] <Riffsyphon1024> Abstain, waiting for SH.
[04:30:11] <Jangsworth> ~close
[04:30:11] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is closed.
[04:30:12] <Cade> That's what oppose is, guys
[04:30:14] <MasterJonathan> Riff: that's ~oppose
[04:30:15] <Jangsworth> ~tally
[04:30:15] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Oppose: 11
[04:30:15] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support: 1
[04:30:21] <Jangsworth> No, if abstain don't vote
[04:30:23] <Cal_Jedi> I was under the impression oppose was option 2
[04:30:27] <Jangsworth> Okay, SH it goes
[04:30:30] <Riffsyphon1024> And I have to leave. I'll check the rest of the log afterward.
[04:30:31] <Jangsworth> Okay
[04:30:31] <jSarek> It was, until they changed it.
[04:30:34] <Cal_Jedi> later, Riff.
[04:30:35] <Jangsworth> Now option #2
[04:30:40] <Supreme_Emperor> night Riff
[04:30:42] <Jangsworth> Do you want the twitter feed?
[04:30:46] <CorellianPremier> seeya
[04:30:46] <Riffsyphon1024> Have a good rest of the Mofference everyone.
[04:30:50] <Jangsworth> How about this
[04:30:52] <jSarek> Bye Riffs.
[04:30:56] <Cade> Isn't that going to SH as well?
[04:30:57] <MasterJonathan> Again, punt to the SH.
[04:31:00] <Supreme_Emperor> SH
[04:31:02] <ecks> SH please
[04:31:03] <jSarek> Punt.
[04:31:04] <Jangsworth> Wait
[04:31:04] <Riffsyphon1024> I bid you dark farew.., well just mine.
[04:31:09] <Jangsworth> We'll vote
[04:31:10] <grunny> Can we please just move this to SH
[04:31:16] <CorellianPremier> vote on shunting it to the SH
[04:31:17] <MasterJonathan> Punt the entire NewsNet issue to the SH and move on with the agenda.
[04:31:20] <Jangsworth> Let me say something before we move on guys
[04:31:45] <Jangsworth> Ignore the remove newsnet. Should we create a twitter feed on the Wook's main page?
[04:31:47] <Jangsworth> Plain and simple
[04:31:51] <Cal_Jedi> I like the twitter feed idea, but I don't know how well it would fit on the main page.
[04:31:52] <Jangsworth> Just a twitter feed
[04:31:58] <MasterJonathan> How active is the Twitter account?
[04:32:04] <ecks> very
[04:32:05] <CC7567> getting more active lately
[04:32:07] <Toprawa> Twitter is very active
[04:32:08] <CorellianPremier> farely well now
[04:32:09] <ecks> I run it with Cav and Tope
[04:32:09] <Toprawa> We post every day
[04:32:09] <CC7567> than it has been, I mean
[04:32:22] <Toprawa> We've resurrected it
[04:32:24] <Toprawa> it was dead
[04:32:27] <ecks> however I think all of these news-related changes should be ironed out in the SH
[04:32:27] <MasterJonathan> As long as it stays active, I support placing a feed on the main page
[04:32:29] <jSarek> I like the idea, but it needs to be implemented as a larger comprehensive Wookieenews plan. Which means, discuss in SH.
[04:32:29] <Jangsworth> I would like to see something on the main page
[04:32:35] <Cal_Jedi> per MJ
[04:32:42] <Jangsworth> Well I'm keeping it separate jSarek
[04:32:50] <Jangsworth> Just the twitter feed
[04:32:55] <Jangsworth> Ignore the remove newsnet
[04:32:57] <ecks> where would it be placed?
[04:32:58] <Jangsworth> as part of option #2
[04:33:00] <MasterFred> I like the idea of a Twitter feed on the Main Page.
[04:33:13] <Tommy9281> I too will check the log for the rest of the Mofference. Good night all.
[04:33:15] <Supreme_Emperor> i like the idea, the only concern I have is where would we place it
[04:33:16] <Jangsworth> How about this
[04:33:17] <Supreme_Emperor> night Tommy
[04:33:19] <ecks> night Tommy
[04:33:20] <Toprawa> Cav and I have discussed this, and I'm hesitant, because we don't post anything on Twitter that isn't on the MP already
[04:33:21] <Cal_Jedi> See ya, Tommy.
[04:33:22] *** Quits: Tommy9281 (~chatzilla@wookieepedia/administrator/Tommy9281) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 26.0/20131205075310])
[04:33:26] <Toprawa> So it would be very redundant
[04:33:29] <Toprawa> Cav pointed that out to me
[04:33:33] <Jangsworth> LET'S VOTE ON IT. ~support for twitter feed on main page or ~oppose. If support, take it to a SH
[04:33:34] <Cal_Jedi> what is posted on the twitter, generally speaking?
[04:33:35] <Jangsworth> and plan it out
[04:33:37] <Jangsworth> Where it goes, ect
[04:33:39] <Jangsworth> Ok?
[04:33:41] <ecks> ok that's fine with me then
[04:33:49] <grunny> Tope: what about if we do what I said earlier:
[04:33:52] <Toprawa> This should go the SH, in all seriousness
[04:33:52] <grunny> [12:21] <grunny> How about replace the feed with a twitter feed on the main page, and post to twitter if there's a new newsnet post?
[04:34:00] <Jangsworth> Ok we're voting on that then
[04:34:01] <grunny> but still probably for SH discussion
[04:34:04] <ecks> Cal_Jedi, daily FA/GA, sometimes qotds (rarely), other SW news, some retweets
[04:34:05] *** Quits: Riffsyphon1024 (~Riffsypho@redacted) (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
[04:34:06] <Cal_Jedi> I actually kind of like Grunny's idea.
[04:34:12] <Toprawa> I'd respond, grunny, but we're voting :P
[04:34:15] <Jangsworth> ~open
[04:34:16] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is open.
[04:34:21] <ecks> ~support
[04:34:21] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
[04:34:23] <Jangsworth> POll IS OPEN
[04:34:23] <jSarek> ~oppose
[04:34:24] <Toprawa> ~support
[04:34:24] <PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Oppose vote counted.
[04:34:24] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[04:34:24] <Jangsworth> ~support
[04:34:25] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support vote counted.
[04:34:26] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[04:34:27] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[04:34:27] <PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[04:34:27] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[04:34:27] <Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[04:34:28] <PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[04:34:28] <MasterFred> ~support
[04:34:29] <PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[04:34:30] <IFYLOFD> ~support
[04:34:30] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[04:34:30] <Trip391> ~support
[04:34:31] <PurpleTentacle> Trip391: Support vote counted.
[04:34:32] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[04:34:32] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[04:34:33] <exiledjedi> ~support
[04:34:33] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[04:34:34] <CC7567> ~support for Twitter feed
[04:34:34] <PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support vote counted.
[04:34:43] <Jangsworth> Anyone else?
[04:34:48] <Jangsworth> 10 seconds to get in last vote
[04:34:50] <Toprawa> We just voted to take that to the SH, right?
[04:34:51] <Jangsworth> No discussion pls
[04:34:53] <Jangsworth> Yes
[04:34:54] <ecks> yes, Tope
[04:34:56] <Toprawa> Ok, good
[04:34:57] <Jangsworth> ~close
[04:34:58] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is closed.
[04:34:59] <Jangsworth> ~tally
[04:34:59] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Oppose: 1
[04:34:59] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support: 12
[04:35:07] <Jangsworth> Ok someone take the twitter feed idea to the SH
[04:35:10] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +m
[04:35:14] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +o Cal_Jedi
[04:35:21] <Jangsworth> Cal has the floor
[04:35:30] <Cal_Jedi> Actually, Cade is next.
[04:35:36] <Jangsworth> No
[04:35:52] <Cal_Jedi> ok. For reference:
[04:35:58] <Jangsworth> Agenda 6 is being dropped
[04:36:05] <Cal_Jedi> Lowering the QOTD vote requirement.—Cal JediInfinite Empire (Personal Comm Channel) 02:45, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
[04:36:13] <Cal_Jedi> This proposal is pretty straight forward. The Quote of the Day has been going through a pretty rough time lately. The amount of participants
[04:36:15] <Cal_Jedi> seems to be dropping, and so the quotes are slower and fewer in coming. Something needs to be done, and I believe this proposal
[04:36:16] <Cal_Jedi> will help.
[04:36:23] <Cal_Jedi> I propose that we lower the voting requirement for Quote of the Day to +8. This will still keep the voting requirement high
[04:36:25] <Cal_Jedi> enough that the page will not be slammed with tons of nonsensical quotes passed in a hurry, but it will also lower it enough
[04:36:26] <Cal_Jedi> so that we can keep the page moving in a better, smoother fashion.
[04:36:30] <Cal_Jedi> I believe that the Quote of the Day is a fantastic and important part of Wookieepedia, and I think this will help it to continue
[04:36:31] <Cal_Jedi> to thrive.
[04:36:39] <Cal_Jedi> And that's what I've got.
[04:36:46] <Jangsworth> Ok
[04:36:49] <Jangsworth> Floor is now open
[04:36:51] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -m
[04:37:00] <MasterJonathan> How will this affect the penalty for repeats? Will that stay at +5 or drop proportionally to +4?
[04:37:09] <ecks> or directly to +15?
[04:37:26] <MasterJonathan> ecks: that' practically doubling it.
[04:37:27] <MasterFred> I'd be ok with just dropping everything down two.
[04:37:28] <MasterJonathan> that's*
[04:37:29] <Cal_Jedi> For my money's worth, it won't affect the repeats.
[04:37:37] <Cal_Jedi> But I'm open to discussion.
[04:37:48] <ecks> so +8, +13, +18...?
[04:37:55] <ecks> +4 would make it hit 20
[04:37:58] <jSarek> Do we have any idea how much this will affect the page? Are there a large number of quotes that get 8 votes but not 10?
[04:38:00] <Supreme_Emperor> let's just not have it effect the repeats, only the original vote count
[04:38:20] <Cal_Jedi> jSarek, I believe so. At any rate, it will speed up the process. the quotes won't be sitting on there as long.
[04:38:27] <ecks> can't hurt at least
[04:38:31] <jSarek> That's true.
[04:38:32] <MasterFred> ecks: +4 seem very reasonable.
[04:38:40] <ecks> +8, +12, +16, +20, reset
[04:38:44] <jSarek> Alright, you've got me sold.
[04:38:49] <MasterJonathan> I prefer +4 penalties
[04:38:52] <Jangsworth> Anyone else?
[04:38:55] <MasterFred> And then just keep all the stuff from the last one.
[04:38:59] <MasterFred> Just replace the numbers.
[04:39:10] <MasterFred> I'm down.
[04:39:34] <ecks> so +8, +12, +16, +20, reset
[04:39:35] <Supreme_Emperor> sounds reasonable
[04:39:37] <Jangsworth> Cal, to clarify, we're voting on +4?
[04:39:37] <ecks> is the idea
[04:39:42] <Cal_Jedi> ecks, that sounds fine by me.
[04:39:48] <Cal_Jedi> Jang, yeah.
[04:39:50] <Jangsworth> Ok
[04:39:57] <Jangsworth> Anyone else have any comments before we vote?
[04:40:05] <Toprawa> Testicles.
[04:40:07] <Toprawa> That is all.
[04:40:08] <Jangsworth> Indeed
[04:40:09] <Cal_Jedi> legit
[04:40:09] <Supreme_Emperor> :P
[04:40:14] <ecks> per Tope
[04:40:15] <Jangsworth> Okay no comments during the poll dammit
[04:40:18] <Jangsworth> ~open
[04:40:18] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is open.
[04:40:20] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[04:40:20] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[04:40:20] <PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[04:40:20] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[04:40:22] <Jangsworth> POLL IS OPEN
[04:40:23] <IFYLOFD> ~support
[04:40:23] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[04:40:24] <Jangsworth> ~support
[04:40:24] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support vote counted.
[04:40:24] <Darth_Culator> ~support
[04:40:25] <ecks> ~support in ur poll comment ur topics
[04:40:25] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[04:40:25] <Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[04:40:25] <MasterFred> ~support
[04:40:25] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
[04:40:25] <PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[04:40:25] <PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[04:40:26] <Toprawa> ~support
[04:40:26] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[04:40:27] <jSarek> ~support
[04:40:27] <PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[04:40:28] <Trip391> ~support
[04:40:28] <CC7567> ~support
[04:40:28] <PurpleTentacle> Trip391: Support vote counted.
[04:40:28] <PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support vote counted.
[04:40:29] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[04:40:30] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[04:40:45] <Jangsworth> Anyone else?
[04:40:46] <Cade> ~support
[04:40:46] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[04:40:51] <Jangsworth> Anyone?
[04:40:56] <Jangsworth> ~close
[04:40:56] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is closed.
[04:41:00] <Jangsworth> ~tally
[04:41:00] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support: 14
[04:41:02] <Cal_Jedi> Awesome. Thanks, everyone.
[04:41:04] <Jangsworth> Motion passed
[04:41:06] <Jangsworth> Thanks Cal
[04:41:09] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -o Cal_Jedi
[04:41:10] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +m
[04:41:19] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +v Calrayn
[04:41:23] <Jangsworth> Cade, you have the floor
[04:41:41] *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Cade
[04:41:47] <Cade> Alrighty
[04:41:54] <Cade> This is about the Old Republic article.
[04:42:09] <Cade> Compare the loading times for the following pages:
[04:42:09] <Cade> The full mainspace page: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Old_Republic
[04:42:09] <Cade> My workbench with the content of the article, but without the appearances: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Cade_Calrayn/SWTOR
[04:42:09] <Cade> And the appearances section alone: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Cade_Calrayn/SWTOR/Appearances
[04:42:49] <Cade> The {{App}} template, with over 12,000 links, makes the article significantly difficult to load and edit.
[04:43:15] <Cade> I'm proposing that we treat the mainspace TOR article as I've been doing my workbench.
[04:43:59] <Cade> We keep the {{App}} on a subpage - Star Wars: The Old Republic/Appearances - and use a template linking to the subpage in the Appearances section of the article.
[04:44:03] <Cade> That's it.
[04:44:06] <Jangsworth> Ok
[04:44:11] <Jangsworth> The floor is now open to all
[04:44:13] <Jangsworth> No fighting
[04:44:18] <Jangsworth> No swearing
[04:44:23] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -m
[04:44:25] <Cal_Jedi> I can't say I ever really liked this, but I must say that the appearances is monolithic.
[04:44:27] * ecks punches Cade
[04:44:27] <Darth_Culator> Bah!
[04:44:30] <ecks> yeah, exception
[04:44:31] <jSarek> 12,000 links ... oy. Yeah, we may want a blanket rule that any article with an appearance list of over, say, 5,000 gets a separate page for it.
[04:44:36] <Jangsworth> :P
[04:44:37] <Darth_Culator> You had to say 'no swearing'.
[04:44:38] <Cade> I'm not even joking about the length.
[04:44:40] <Toprawa> I hate going down this road, but I think this is necessary in this exceedingly rare instance.
[04:44:40] <MasterJonathan> The first page just timed out to a blank page for me.
[04:44:42] <CC7567> so {{SW:TOR/App}} is going to placed within the TOR article? or just as a link, i.e. [[/App]]?
[04:44:43] <Cal_Jedi> So, I think I can see the understanding behind this.
[04:44:43] <Jangsworth> Let's stay on topic :P
[04:44:46] <Cal_Jedi> per Tope
[04:44:50] <Darth_Culator> We do not split articles.
[04:44:53] <Darth_Culator> Period.
[04:44:58] <Cade> It will ///not//// be transcluded
[04:44:59] <Cal_Jedi> Provided that the appearances are easy to get to.
[04:45:07] <ecks> my internet connection vehemently disagrees, Culator
[04:45:10] <Supreme_Emperor> normally i would oppose splitting, but that loading time makes me consider otherwise
[04:45:10] <Jangsworth> I hate to split articles
[04:45:10] <Darth_Culator> I don't care how Caded-up they've gotten.
[04:45:11] <Cade> There will be a link to the subpage.
[04:45:17] <CorellianPremier> just the app section?
[04:45:20] <Cade> Yes.
[04:45:30] <MasterFred> I say this is an unfortunate necessity.
[04:45:30] <Cade> {{App}} currently includes 12450 lines.
[04:45:36] <ecks> per Fred
[04:45:37] <MasterJonathan> Culator, the mainspace page times out to a blank page for me. Cade's workbench loads in three seconds.
[04:45:38] <Cal_Jedi> per Fred
[04:45:51] <Cal_Jedi> I don't like this, but I think it's a necessary evil.
[04:45:57] <Darth_Culator> So get a better Internet connection!
[04:45:59] <MasterJonathan> Exactly per Cal.
[04:46:00] <Jangsworth> ^
[04:46:12] <Cade> I wouldn't be proposing this if it wasn't entirely necessary
[04:46:14] <MasterJonathan> I don't exactly have that option.
[04:46:15] <Darth_Culator> That's not the article's fault!
[04:46:15] <Jangsworth> No splits ever ever
[04:46:24] <MasterFred> Personally, it loads fine for me, but I'm on UNT Internet, which is fast. :P
[04:46:34] <Supreme_Emperor> per Cal, and if it does pass, it should be only a one time thing
[04:46:34] <Toprawa> Are we sure the page is going to load any faster without the Apps?
[04:46:36] <jSarek> Culator, I don't think an otaku in 2020 Japan has a net connection fast enough to load that thing comfortably.
[04:46:39] <Cade> Yes, Tope
[04:46:39] <Jangsworth> I'm on a shitty network atm
[04:46:40] <Toprawa> It's still big as crap
[04:46:42] <Jangsworth> It's fine on my end
[04:46:53] <Cade> That's why I posted the three links for comparison.
[04:46:57] <Darth_Culator> "I'm sorry, your son is too tall for the school bus, so we have to cut off his legs."
[04:47:00] <Cal_Jedi> Yes. Per SupEmp. Let's keep this a one-time thing; not set precedence.
[04:47:06] <Jangsworth> heh okay let's stay on target
[04:47:08] <Cal_Jedi> XD
[04:47:09] <Toprawa> I don't really have trouble loading this thing from my home Internet, FWIW
[04:47:09] <Cade> This is only a one-time thing.
[04:47:12] <MasterJonathan> Both of Cade's workbench pages load super-quick for me.
[04:47:17] <Jangsworth> Me too
[04:47:20] <Toprawa> I do have trouble loading it on an iPad hotspot, which I'm on right now
[04:47:29] <Supreme_Emperor> the workbench pages load super quick, while the main article takes time
[04:47:39] <MasterJonathan> per Supreme
[04:47:49] <Jangsworth> yeah
[04:47:58] <Cade> It's virtually impossible to edit the page on the site - the edit window is very slow.
[04:48:11] <Cade> And this is on a wide variety of internet speeds at different places.
[04:48:11] <MasterJonathan> If a significant minority have trouble loading it, the it needs to be split.
[04:48:15] <Jangsworth> Sorry for going off topic, but do you get that for every major article?
[04:48:19] <Cade> No.
[04:48:21] <Darth_Culator> Seriously, why do I have no problem loading the main article?
[04:48:25] <jSarek> Cal: I'm sure there are other projects where, if we were linking appearances thoroughly, would be almost as bad. I think it's okay to set a precedent that any article with over 5k or 10k appearances should get a similar treatment.
[04:48:26] <MasterJonathan> Not everybody has access to super-high-speed internet.
[04:48:28] <Supreme_Emperor> this is the only one i've ever had trouble loading
[04:48:39] <Jangsworth> Okay guys
[04:48:47] <Darth_Culator> I only have 50mbit cable. It's not like I live in the future.
[04:48:50] <Cal_Jedi> jSarek: I don't go along with that, but let's save that for a separate conversation.
[04:48:54] <Jangsworth> Let's not talk about our internet connections. What should we do to fix the problem?
[04:48:59] <grunny> we could have it lazy loaded instead
[04:48:59] <Cal_Jedi> For now, let's just talk about this article.
[04:49:03] <Cade> Split.
[04:49:06] <jSarek> Cal: Fair enough.
[04:49:06] <Jangsworth> Yes, we're getting to that
[04:49:10] <grunny> I can explain what I mean by that if people give me a second
[04:49:10] <Jangsworth> What do you purpose, Cade?
[04:49:23] <Jangsworth> ok
[04:49:27] <Jangsworth> So vote to split?
[04:49:30] <Toprawa> please do, Grunny
[04:49:34] <Jangsworth> Sure
[04:49:35] <MasterJonathan> Let grunny explain.
[04:49:38] <jSarek> Let's wait for the Grun.
[04:49:41] <Cade> I propose the {{App}} template be moved to a subpage, and a template-link in Appearances.
[04:49:42] <Jangsworth> We are
[04:50:19] <jSarek> Jang: I know. I got made a fool by the lag again.
[04:50:33] <Jangsworth> Np
[04:50:51] <Jangsworth> Everyone rushed at hitting enter, I failed to see grunny at first
[04:50:56] <grunny> So, rather than it be included in the main page, we use JS to load it after the page loads.
[04:51:06] <grunny> By the time people scroll down it will be there
[04:51:10] <Cal_Jedi> How complicated would that be to accomplish?
[04:51:11] <grunny> but it won't affect page load time
[04:51:24] <Cade> Would that fix the slow problem of editing the page?
[04:51:28] <grunny> even better, you can make it so it only loads if people scroll down to it
[04:51:37] <grunny> yes, since it wouldn't be in the page source
[04:51:39] <MasterJonathan> I like this idea.
[04:51:42] <Supreme_Emperor> but what if people click to it via the TOC
[04:51:43] <Cal_Jedi> Hmm.
[04:51:52] <Jangsworth> But no splits, rigth?
[04:51:54] <Jangsworth> right*
[04:51:56] <Cade> I'm not sure that'd fix the problem
[04:52:08] <Jangsworth> We can always try and discuss it more elsewhere if it fails
[04:52:12] <grunny> it would still be a sub page, but it wouldn't be included directly
[04:52:12] <Toprawa> Can we mock this up to test it?
[04:52:12] <Jangsworth> I trust grunny's JS skills
[04:52:13] <Jangsworth> though
[04:52:18] <MasterFred> We could let Grunny give it a shot, and vote on what happens if it doesn't work.
[04:52:20] <grunny> I can make a proff of concept later
[04:52:24] <grunny> proof*
[04:52:24] <MasterJonathan> per Fred
[04:52:28] <Jangsworth> Yeah I trust grunny
[04:52:40] <Supreme_Emperor> but per Cade, would it help with the editing issue
[04:52:44] <Jangsworth> Okay so let's vote on that?
[04:52:52] <Toprawa> We could give Grunny's idea a shot, and it turns out to suck for some reason, we could reevaluate
[04:52:54] <Cal_Jedi> Grunny's idea does sound like a very plausible solution to both problems. I like it.
[04:52:58] <Cal_Jedi> Per Tope
[04:53:01] <Toprawa> if it*
[04:53:05] <Jangsworth> Anyone else have a comment or suggestion?
[04:53:06] <jSarek> grunny seems to be giving us the best of all possible worlds here. I definitely support him attempting to make it work.
[04:53:07] <Cade> Can we double-vote?
[04:53:08] <Supreme_Emperor> per Tope
[04:53:21] <Jangsworth> What do you purpose, Cade?
[04:53:21] <Cade> Vote to do grunny's thing, and what to do if it fails
[04:53:27] <Jangsworth> SH?
[04:53:30] <Darth_Culator> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ4OvwPxBZ0#t=6
[04:53:32] <Cal_Jedi> Cade: how about vote support if you want Grunny's idea, and vote oppose to do your idea.
[04:53:39] <Cade> Nah
[04:53:42] <Toprawa> I'd rather not vote on the failure contingency until I see it in action
[04:53:46] <Jangsworth> True
[04:53:49] <Toprawa> Some other idea may come up in the meantime
[04:53:50] <Jangsworth> Per Tope
[04:54:01] <Cade> I'd be fine if it works, but I'd like to get this working soon
[04:54:11] <jSarek> Per Culator.
[04:54:17] <Jangsworth> So let's proceed on?
[04:54:22] <jSarek> And per Tope.
[04:54:32] <Cal_Jedi> So, are we doing the vote like I proposed?
[04:54:41] <Jangsworth> :P
[04:54:44] <Cal_Jedi> wat? :P
[04:54:53] <Jangsworth> Grunny will then do what he needs to do in the mean time
[04:54:55] <Supreme_Emperor> alright, so we vote to give Grunny a chance?
[04:54:59] <Toprawa> ^
[04:55:02] <MasterJonathan> ^
[04:55:06] <CorellianPremier> indeed
[04:55:06] <MasterFred> I say vote on whether or not we let Grunny attempt a fix.
[04:55:08] <Jangsworth> ~open
[04:55:08] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is open.
[04:55:11] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[04:55:11] <PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[04:55:11] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[04:55:12] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[04:55:12] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[04:55:12] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[04:55:14] <IFYLOFD> ~support
[04:55:14] <jSarek> ~support
[04:55:15] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[04:55:15] <Jangsworth> ~support
[04:55:15] <Toprawa> ~support
[04:55:15] <PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[04:55:15] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support vote counted.
[04:55:15] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[04:55:16] <MasterFred> ~support
[04:55:16] <PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[04:55:19] <Cade> ~support
[04:55:19] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[04:55:24] <Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[04:55:25] <PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[04:55:26] <Darth_Culator> ~support
[04:55:26] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[04:55:34] <Trip391> ~support Give Grunny a chance
[04:55:34] <PurpleTentacle> Trip391: Support vote counted.
[04:55:35] <Jangsworth> Anyone else for team grunny?
[04:55:38] <ecks> ~support
[04:55:39] <ecks> er
[04:55:41] <Jangsworth> pls
[04:55:44] <ecks> ~support
[04:55:45] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
[04:55:47] <ecks> it's 5 am dammit
[04:55:48] <Jangsworth> ~close
[04:55:49] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is closed.
[04:55:50] <Jangsworth> olol
[04:55:51] <Jangsworth> ~tally
[04:55:51] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support: 13
[04:55:54] <Jangsworth> GRUNNY WINS
[04:55:57] <Jangsworth> Ok moving on
[04:55:59] <Jangsworth> Thanks Cade
[04:56:00] <Darth_Culator> FLAWLESS VICTORY
[04:56:05] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -vv Cade Calrayn
[04:56:07] <Jangsworth> ikr
[04:56:09] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +m
[04:56:14] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +v exiledjedi
[04:56:22] <Jangsworth> Exiledjedi you now have the floor
[04:56:30] <Jangsworth> Agenda 8
[04:56:58] <Jangsworth> Exiledjedi?
[04:57:02] <exiledjedi> Okay, my proposal is that we change the process for nominating and removing members of the EduCorps voting board.
[04:57:47] <exiledjedi> Currently we have these two pages
[04:57:54] <exiledjedi> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:EduCorps/EduCorps_nominations
[04:57:59] <exiledjedi> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:EduCorps/Requests_for_removal_of_EduCorps_rights
[04:58:36] <exiledjedi> These are not really that well monitored and the 14 day waiting period for new members seems like a long time to me.
[04:59:18] <exiledjedi> My proposal would change the voting process to be conducted by EduCorps members and the regular meetings rather than on the subpages.
[04:59:22] <exiledjedi> That is all.
[04:59:26] <Jangsworth> Okay
[04:59:42] <Jangsworth> The floor will be open for those who don't cause any chaos
[04:59:43] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -m
[04:59:45] <IFYLOFD> I figure that this would be something more suited for an EC meeting instead of a Mofference
[04:59:46] <Toprawa> It takes way too damn long to admit or remove someone with a site vote, and it's way too bureaucratic. The EC is a real reviewing body now, and it should act like one.
[04:59:54] <Cal_Jedi> Makes the most sense, IMO. That's what the AC and Inq do. And the EC has been going through a good change to become more like those two.
[04:59:55] <Cade> Exactly
[04:59:58] <IFYLOFD> I mean, EJ, you're an EC, you guys can decide how to run your operation
[05:00:09] <CC7567> Per Floyd
[05:00:13] <Cade> Floyd: this stuff is set up by consensus, I think
[05:00:15] <Supreme_Emperor> agreed, we should be able to have final say regarding Educorps operations
[05:00:17] <Toprawa> the EC doesn't have the authority to determine this, though, Floyd
[05:00:27] <Toprawa> The site needs to grant the EC permission to run this by themselves
[05:00:27] <IFYLOFD> Really?
[05:00:32] <Toprawa> Well, we should
[05:00:33] <Cade> Yep
[05:00:35] <exiledjedi> I didn't think that the ED could do this without consensus.
[05:00:35] <Toprawa> But people bitch
[05:00:36] <IFYLOFD> Huh
[05:00:40] <exiledjedi> *EC
[05:00:46] <CC7567> sounds good to me in either case
[05:00:59] <Cal_Jedi> Per Tope, but this should be passed by everyone.
[05:01:00] <exiledjedi> It will speed things up a lot.
[05:01:12] <MasterFred> Wholeheartedly support.
[05:01:17] <ecks> +1
[05:01:18] <Jangsworth> We should also transform the CAN's formatting. Allow it to look like the GAN/FAN now
[05:01:20] <Supreme_Emperor> this way we have something to point to if people complain about it
[05:01:23] <MasterFred> EC is l33t orgzashun nao
[05:01:24] <Jangsworth> (separate)
[05:01:24] <MasterJonathan> per Jang
[05:01:37] <Jangsworth> People going from CAN to GAN, ect, confuse the formatting
[05:01:45] <Jangsworth> they believe they should stick with the old bullet points for reviews
[05:01:51] <Cade> That's a different thing, though
[05:01:54] <Jangsworth> the GAN/FAN doesn't use that formatting anymore
[05:01:55] <Jangsworth> I know
[05:01:59] <jSarek> Hmm, on the one hand, I like full-site democracy and bureaucracy. On the other hand, I like speeding things up, and consistencey with other reviewing bodies. I think you may have narrowly won me over on this one.
[05:02:06] <MasterJonathan> Jang: Vote on that after the current proposal.
[05:02:07] <Cade> Let's vote on the proposed item.
[05:02:16] <Jangsworth> But since we're making the CAN a full body reviewing panel, they should be formally in line with the other two
[05:02:17] <Jangsworth> Sure MJ
[05:02:45] <Jangsworth> So let's take a vote for Exiled's proposal if we're ready,
[05:02:48] <Cal_Jedi> Yep
[05:02:50] <Supreme_Emperor> lets do this
[05:02:51] <exiledjedi> Sure
[05:02:54] <Jangsworth> All set?
[05:02:58] <Jangsworth> ~open
[05:02:59] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is open.
[05:03:00] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[05:03:00] <PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[05:03:00] <Cade> ~support
[05:03:01] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[05:03:01] <Jangsworth> POLL IS OPEN
[05:03:03] <Toprawa> ~support
[05:03:03] <Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[05:03:03] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[05:03:03] <PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[05:03:03] <ecks> ~support
[05:03:04] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
[05:03:04] <exiledjedi> ~support
[05:03:04] <Jangsworth> ~support
[05:03:04] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[05:03:04] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support vote counted.
[05:03:05] <Trip391> ~support
[05:03:05] <PurpleTentacle> Trip391: Support vote counted.
[05:03:06] <jSarek> ~support
[05:03:06] <PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[05:03:08] <MasterFred> ~support
[05:03:08] <PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[05:03:08] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[05:03:08] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[05:03:14] <Jangsworth> Anyone else?
[05:03:19] <CC7567> ~support
[05:03:19] <PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support vote counted.
[05:03:21] <IFYLOFD> ~support
[05:03:21] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[05:03:22] <MasterJonathan> ~support per jSarek
[05:03:22] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[05:03:27] <Jangsworth> 10 seconds
[05:03:36] <Jangsworth> ~close
[05:03:36] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is closed.
[05:03:38] <Jangsworth> ~tally
[05:03:38] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support: 14
[05:03:41] <Jangsworth> Motion passed
[05:03:46] <Jangsworth> Now for my formatting idea
[05:03:50] <Jangsworth> Should we do this?
[05:03:54] <MasterJonathan> Yes.
[05:03:55] <Cal_Jedi> I'm game.
[05:03:56] <exiledjedi> Yes
[05:03:59] <MasterJonathan> Consistency is good.
[05:04:14] <Cade> What are you proposing?
[05:04:15] <Toprawa> So subpages?
[05:04:18] <Jangsworth> Yes
[05:04:19] <jSarek> Consistency IS good. What's the reason this isn't currently done?
[05:04:20] <Toprawa> Transcluded?
[05:04:27] <Jangsworth> More in line with GAN/FAN
[05:04:30] <Cal_Jedi> Just like the GAN/FAN
[05:04:33] <MasterFred> Just do it exactly like the others.
[05:04:37] <MasterJonathan> Cade: Change the CAN to use the same format as the FAN and GAN with transcluded subpages
[05:04:43] <Jangsworth> Yup
[05:04:47] <Supreme_Emperor> jSarek:the Educorps really only recently started getting everything sorted out
[05:04:47] <Cade> K
[05:04:54] <Jangsworth> All set?
[05:04:56] <Toprawa> Do we need to do this, though?
[05:05:07] <Toprawa> I thought we did it before because the FAN and GAN pages took a long time to load
[05:05:08] <Jangsworth> I think it would be proper, Tope allow me to explain more
[05:05:08] <Cade> I don't think it's necessary
[05:05:10] <Toprawa> I forget the exact reasoning for that
[05:05:18] <Supreme_Emperor> if i may make a quick suggestion
[05:05:23] <Toprawa> the CAN page is minimal in scope
[05:05:25] <MasterJonathan> Tope: I think it will help eliminate confusion over formatting objections
[05:05:33] <CC7567> subpages allow for the nomination's history to be accessible on a single page
[05:05:39] <MasterJonathan> and per CC
[05:05:40] <Cade> Ah, true
[05:05:45] <Supreme_Emperor> we have our next Educorps meeting coming up, we could always throw this onto our agenda there
[05:05:50] <Supreme_Emperor> in the interest of time
[05:05:51] <Cade> That's a valid point that I'd support.
[05:05:53] <Cal_Jedi> If you look at the CAN page, it's looks pretty complex of late. A lot more than it used to in my day of CAN nomming. :P
[05:05:58] <Toprawa> yeah, all right
[05:06:03] <Jangsworth> Newer CAN reviewers or CAN reviewers going from the CAN to GAN confuse the latter's formatting. If we change the CAN's formatting and allow it to use what the GAN and FAN does, it will not only help out the reviews, it will look
more properly organized and concise
[05:06:14] <Cal_Jedi> true.
[05:06:24] <Jangsworth> help out the reviewers*
[05:06:33] <Cal_Jedi> I personally say vote now. Get it taken care of, IMO.
[05:06:42] <Jangsworth> I know, I had to change multiple formatting errors on the GAn recently
[05:06:49] <Toprawa> VOTE NOW VOTE NOW VOTE NOW VOTE NOW
[05:06:53] <ecks> yeeee
[05:06:53] <Jangsworth> ^
[05:06:54] <jSarek> Per CC and Jang. This is all-around good, I say go for it.
[05:06:55] <Jangsworth> All set/
[05:06:56] <Cal_Jedi> Plus, there would be no confusion over whether it should be community-wide consensus or not.
[05:06:57] <Jangsworth> ?
[05:06:57] <ecks> kesin ommis 2014
[05:07:02] <Jangsworth> Okay guys let's vote
[05:07:03] <Jangsworth> ~open
[05:07:03] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is open.
[05:07:04] <MasterJonathan> <senate>VOTE NOW! VOTE NOW!</senate>
[05:07:07] <Jangsworth> ~support
[05:07:07] <CC7567> ~support
[05:07:07] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support vote counted.
[05:07:07] <PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support vote counted.
[05:07:08] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[05:07:08] <PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[05:07:08] <Cade> ~support
[05:07:09] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[05:07:09] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[05:07:09] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[05:07:09] <jSarek> ~support
[05:07:09] <MasterFred> ~support
[05:07:09] <Trip391> ~support
[05:07:09] <PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[05:07:09] <PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[05:07:10] <PurpleTentacle> Trip391: Support vote counted.
[05:07:11] <ecks> ~support
[05:07:11] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
[05:07:12] <Toprawa> ~support
[05:07:12] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[05:07:14] <exiledjedi> ~support
[05:07:14] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[05:07:14] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[05:07:14] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[05:07:16] <Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[05:07:16] <PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[05:07:22] <grunny> ~support
[05:07:22] <Jangsworth> Anyone else?
[05:07:22] <PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[05:07:30] <Jangsworth> 10 seconds
[05:07:31] <Darth_Culator> ~support
[05:07:31] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[05:07:35] <Jangsworth> 5
[05:07:40] <Jangsworth> ~close
[05:07:41] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is closed.
[05:07:42] <Jangsworth> ~tally
[05:07:42] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support: 15
[05:07:47] <Jangsworth> Formatting motion passed
[05:07:47] <MasterFred> :D
[05:07:50] <Jangsworth> Thanks Exiledjedi
[05:07:57] <CorellianPremier> so who gets to code this?
[05:07:57] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +m
[05:08:02] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -v exiledjedi
[05:08:10] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +o Toprawa
[05:08:10] <Toprawa> oops
[05:08:15] <Jangsworth> Tope now has the floor
[05:08:27] <Toprawa> !youdoit
[05:08:27] <Nuku-Nuku> CC7567 should do it.
[05:08:30] <Jangsworth> Agenda 11
[05:08:31] <Toprawa> CC's on coding.
[05:08:33] <Toprawa> Ok.
[05:08:35] <Jangsworth> heh
[05:08:37] <Toprawa> Very simple:
[05:08:46] <Toprawa> Quote attribution
[05:09:16] <Toprawa> I propose that quote attribution lines should not have full stops (periods) at the end of the line
[05:09:27] <Toprawa> ex: --Joe speaks to Jang
[05:09:30] <Toprawa> not --Joe speaks to Jang.
[05:09:32] <Toprawa> Open.
[05:09:49] <Toprawa> We pretty much don't do this anyway, but some people don't seem to know that
[05:09:53] <Toprawa> So I'd like to standardize it
[05:10:13] <Jangsworth> Floor is now open
[05:10:14] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -m
[05:10:15] <MasterJonathan> This is common sense, so I support.
[05:10:16] <Cal_Jedi> Absolutely. I'm surprised this isn't already in the rulebooks.
[05:10:16] <ecks> +1
[05:10:19] <jSarek> Oh, I thought "oppose" was take it to SH. Glad you all outvoted me. :-p
[05:10:20] <Jangsworth> and Tope: :D
[05:10:34] <Supreme_Emperor> seems reasonable
[05:10:41] <Cal_Jedi> and I gotta say, I love this sort of standardization stuff. :P
[05:10:42] <Jangsworth> I agree
[05:10:44] <MasterFred> I didn't think it was proper to punctuate attribution anyway.
[05:10:47] <MasterFred> So support
[05:10:54] <CorellianPremier> yep
[05:10:58] <jSarek> Whoops, that wasn't what I was trying to say. What I meant to say was, "I think Tope's proposal is standard in most style manuals, isn't it?"
[05:10:59] <Cal_Jedi> Not a full sentence = no period
[05:11:09] <Toprawa> jSarek> Yes
[05:11:21] <Cal_Jedi> Like the image text.
[05:11:29] <Toprawa> The image text is different, though
[05:11:36] <Toprawa> This isn't the same concept
[05:11:53] <Cal_Jedi> Still, the point I was trying to make is that when there is no full sentence, there is no period.
[05:12:08] <Toprawa> Right, but some quote attributions become full sentences but still shouldn't have full stops
[05:12:23] <jSarek> Unless someone can cite me some style manuals saying Tope is wrong. I am fully behind him. Which means all of you should be, too, because I'm the anti-Tope contrarian. :-p
[05:12:24] <Cal_Jedi> True.
[05:12:26] <MasterFred> Tope's example is actually a full sentence.
[05:12:39] <Toprawa> jSarek speaks indisputable truth :P
[05:12:42] <Cal_Jedi> XD
[05:12:47] <CC7567> cute
[05:12:49] <Cal_Jedi> I'm good with this.
[05:12:51] <MasterJonathan> Entirely per jSarek.
[05:12:52] <Jangsworth> Okay
[05:12:53] <Toprawa> and I may NEVER say that line again :P
[05:13:06] <jSarek> Yeaj, mark your calendars. :-p
[05:13:09] <Jangsworth> to clarify, what should we vote on?
[05:13:16] <MasterFred> Per myself, and thus JSarek, since he repeated me.
[05:13:21] <MasterFred> I take credit for that point!
[05:13:22] <MasterJonathan> Jang: No period.
[05:13:22] <MasterFred> Mine!
[05:13:26] <Toprawa> We're voting to bar periods from quote attribution lines in all instances
[05:13:32] <Jangsworth> sorry, but I got confused :P
[05:13:34] <Jangsworth> Ok
[05:13:43] <MasterFred> Just ending punctation in general
[05:13:48] <Jangsworth> Ok
[05:13:53] <Jangsworth> Let's take a vote on that
[05:13:54] <MasterFred> Someone may get excited and want an !. :P
[05:13:56] <Jangsworth> Everyone set?
[05:13:59] <Jangsworth> ~open
[05:14:00] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is open.
[05:14:01] <Cal_Jedi> lolfred
[05:14:02] <MasterFred> ~support
[05:14:02] <PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[05:14:02] <Jangsworth> POLL IS NOW OPEN
[05:14:03] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[05:14:03] <PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[05:14:04] <Jangsworth> ~support
[05:14:05] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support vote counted.
[05:14:05] <jSarek> ~support
[05:14:06] <Cade> ~support
[05:14:06] <Toprawa> ~support
[05:14:06] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[05:14:06] <PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[05:14:06] <grunny> ~support
[05:14:06] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[05:14:06] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[05:14:06] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[05:14:06] <PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[05:14:07] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[05:14:07] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[05:14:08] <Trip391> ~support
[05:14:08] <PurpleTentacle> Trip391: Support vote counted.
[05:14:12] <exiledjedi> ~support
[05:14:12] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[05:14:13] <Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[05:14:14] <PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[05:14:14] <CC7567> ~support
[05:14:15] <PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support vote counted.
[05:14:16] <ecks> ~support
[05:14:16] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
[05:14:20] <Jangsworth> Anyone else?
[05:14:34] <Jangsworth> 10 seconds until Cal destroys the Wook
[05:14:36] <Jangsworth> I mean close the poll
[05:14:41] <Jangsworth> ~close
[05:14:41] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is closed.
[05:14:45] <Jangsworth> ~tally
[05:14:45] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support: 14
[05:14:49] <Jangsworth> Motion passed
[05:14:52] <Jangsworth> Thanks Tope, anything else?
[05:14:53] <Cal_Jedi> :D
[05:14:54] <IFYLOFD> ~support
[05:14:54] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: There is no open vote on this channel.
[05:14:56] <Toprawa> Nope, thanks
[05:14:57] <IFYLOFD> DAMN
[05:14:57] <Jangsworth> Floyd, pls
[05:15:00] <Jangsworth> Ok
[05:15:03] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +m
[05:15:14] <Jangsworth> Cade will now finish it off (twss)
[05:15:17] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -o Toprawa
[05:15:21] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +v Cade
[05:15:31] <Jangsworth> Agenda #13. You have the floor, Cade
[05:15:40] <Cade> So, aparently, last Mofference I was supposed to do something
[05:15:46] <Cade> So I'm doing it nao :P
[05:15:52] <Jangsworth> \o/
[05:16:16] <Cade> Alright, so here's the amendment to WP:SOCK
[05:16:23] <Cade> "'''Sockpuppets''' are alternate usernames created by a registered user. The term also applies to IP addresses used by banned users to evade their block. The use of sockpuppets is discouraged on most wikis, including [[Wookieepedia]].
Sockpuppetry may be dealt with by administrators as follows:"
[05:16:28] <Cade> And "*The use of sockpuppets to get around a ban will result in the sockpuppet username being permanently blocked. The use of an IP address to evade a ban, whether it be on a registered username or another IP address, is considered
sockpuppetry and will result in the IP address being banned in accordance with Wookieepedia policy. The use of proxy IP addresses to evade blocks is also forbidden, and wil
[05:16:28] <Cade> l result in the permanent block of the proxy address. At the discretion of the administrators, the length of the original username's block may be extended."
[05:16:43] <Cade> Compare to http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:SOCK for reference
[05:16:46] <Cade> Done.
[05:17:12] <Jangsworth> Okay, also this is agenda #12 not 13
[05:17:14] <Jangsworth> btw
[05:17:17] <Cade> Aye
[05:17:18] <Jangsworth> Sorry for any confusion
[05:17:25] <Jangsworth> I had to remove some because others who made agenda items left
[05:17:29] <Jangsworth> The floor is now open
[05:17:30] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -m
[05:17:32] <IFYLOFD> Oppose because Cade
[05:17:34] <Toprawa> This basically just clarifies that evading a ban through another IP is tantamount to sockpuppetry and will be similarly dealt with.
[05:17:36] <Supreme_Emperor> XD
[05:17:39] <Cade> Per Tope
[05:17:42] <Toprawa> Which is what we do anyway
[05:17:42] <ecks> per Floyd
[05:17:44] <Supreme_Emperor> full support
[05:17:47] <Darth_Culator> It's what we do anyway.
[05:17:47] <exiledjedi> Sure
[05:17:49] <MasterFred> In that case, full support
[05:17:53] <MasterJonathan> Support as common sense.
[05:17:56] <Cal_Jedi> Per Tope and Culator. Full support.
[05:18:03] <Cade> Basically codifying that we can ban Pickle when he shows up on another IP.
[05:18:10] <ecks> +1
[05:18:34] <MasterJonathan> (Pickle got banned? Good.)
[05:18:35] <MasterFred> Pickle's sure in a pickle now. :D
[05:18:39] <Supreme_Emperor> XD
[05:18:44] <Cade> MJ: that's what all of those proxies have been.
[05:18:46] <Jangsworth> I took the liberty of blocking his proxy range
[05:18:49] <Toprawa> Ferd wins the Mofference
[05:18:52] <Toprawa> That comment
[05:18:53] <Darth_Culator> I swear, if we ever get our own server, it will have a reverse proxy scanner.
[05:18:54] <MasterFred> 8)
[05:19:03] <Cade> Pickle, who also is Donmax, has been using Brazil as a proxy to edit
[05:19:12] <ecks> I guess you could say that Fred ...
[05:19:14] <ecks> (•_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■)
[05:19:15] <Jangsworth> culator: We should vote on that someday :(
[05:19:15] <Cade> Most of the last month's anon block log is Pickle.
[05:19:18] <ecks> ... mastered the Mofference
[05:19:23] <Jangsworth> Stay on topic
[05:19:29] <Jangsworth> •_•
[05:19:43] <Cal_Jedi> Culator: Agenda #14 :P (apologies for off-topic:P)
[05:19:49] <MasterFred> dat emoji comic ecks
[05:19:50] <MasterFred> dem shades
[05:19:53] <Cade> So, any objections?
[05:19:54] <ecks> I have it aliased yo
[05:19:55] <Jangsworth> OK
[05:19:55] <Cade> Otherwise, vote.
[05:19:57] <MasterFred> Sorry Jang
[05:19:58] <Jangsworth> All set?
[05:19:59] <Cal_Jedi> sounds good.
[05:20:00] <Darth_Culator> ~support
[05:20:00] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: There is no open vote on this channel.
[05:20:05] <Jangsworth> LO
[05:20:07] <Jangsworth> :P*
[05:20:14] <Cal_Jedi> XD
[05:20:15] <Jangsworth> ~open
[05:20:16] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is open.
[05:20:17] <Trip391> ~support
[05:20:17] <Darth_Culator> ~support
[05:20:17] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[05:20:17] <Cade> ~support
[05:20:17] <jSarek> If we need this clarification, then we should make this clarification. I didn't realize it wasn't covered by the existing page.
[05:20:17] <PurpleTentacle> Trip391: Support vote counted.
[05:20:18] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[05:20:18] <PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[05:20:18] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[05:20:18] <MasterFred> ~support
[05:20:19] <PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[05:20:21] <Jangsworth> ~support
[05:20:21] <ecks> ~support (づ｡◕‿‿◕｡)づ
[05:20:21] <jSarek> ~support
[05:20:21] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support vote counted.
[05:20:21] <exiledjedi> ~support
[05:20:21] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
[05:20:21] <PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[05:20:22] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[05:20:23] <Supreme_Emperor> ~support full support
[05:20:23] <PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[05:20:26] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[05:20:26] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[05:20:28] <IFYLOFD> ~support
[05:20:28] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[05:20:29] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[05:20:29] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[05:20:30] <Toprawa> ~support
[05:20:30] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[05:20:30] <CC7567> ~support
[05:20:30] <PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support vote counted.
[05:20:38] <Jangsworth> Anyone else?
[05:20:52] <Jangsworth> btw CC killed Ahsoka. He told me, no lies
[05:20:55] <Jangsworth> ~close
[05:20:55] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is closed.
[05:20:59] <Jangsworth> ~tally
[05:20:59] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support: 15
[05:20:59] <MasterJonathan> (Pickle is Donmax? No wonder. :P)
[05:21:04] <Jangsworth> Motion passed
[05:21:05] <Cade> Aye
[05:21:06] <Supreme_Emperor> think ecks is getting sleepy over there :P
[05:21:07] <Jangsworth> lol MJ
[05:21:10] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +m
[05:21:14] <Jangsworth> Cade, proceed please
[05:21:26] <Cade> Alrighty, now for a more complex one
[05:21:38] <Cade> A notability policy - for sentient species.
[05:21:51] <Cade> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Cade_Calrayn/aliens
[05:22:28] <Cade> Basically, this outlaws all of the species articles that Dantescifi's been making based on background characters in comics.
[05:22:50] <Cade> The proposal serves as a notability policy for species in general.
[05:22:51] <Cade> Discuss.
[05:22:56] <Jangsworth> Sure
[05:23:02] <Jangsworth> the floor is now open for the final time :(
[05:23:04] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -m
[05:23:05] <MasterJonathan> "Generic background characters However, if two or more characters" Huhwhatsis?
[05:23:25] <Cal_Jedi> yeah. :P
[05:23:30] <Supreme_Emperor> Cade fail :P
[05:23:33] <Cade> One moment...
[05:23:37] <Supreme_Emperor> this makes a lot of sense though
[05:23:51] <MasterJonathan> I'd kick you for that, but I'm temporarily without op powers. :P
[05:23:55] <Jangsworth> gg
[05:23:56] <Cal_Jedi> XD
[05:24:06] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +v MasterJonathan
[05:24:10] <Jangsworth> ^
[05:24:14] <MasterJonathan> !op
[05:24:15] <Nuku-Nuku> MasterJonathan: Error: I need to be opped to op someone.
[05:24:17] <Cade> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Unidentified_heptadactyl_Bith-like_gambler%27s_species
[05:24:17] <Jangsworth> :P
[05:24:21] <Toprawa> We need Nuku
[05:24:21] <Nuku-Nuku> Toprawa: Error: "We" is not a valid command.
[05:24:28] <Cade> This is what would pass as a generic background character.
[05:24:30] <Jangsworth> Okay there's the link
[05:24:38] <jSarek> I love it (a little needed copyediting notwithstanding). I'm just worried creating our first official notability policy in a Mofference may get some stink eye from the wider Wook population, who have very strong opinions on the subject.
I'll vote Support, but it may be better to punt to CT.
[05:24:50] <Toprawa> Or what wouldn't pass, as it were :P
[05:25:13] <Toprawa> I think Cade has covered this one pretty well with all foreseeable contingencies
[05:25:16] <Cal_Jedi> Complicated as it may be, I think it's a good idea to have some sort of a policy on this. I'm supportive.
[05:25:28] <MasterFred> Yeah per tope
[05:25:29] <Supreme_Emperor> definitely support
[05:25:34] <exiledjedi> Sounds good
[05:25:37] <Jangsworth> Anyone else have a comment?
[05:25:41] <Cade> Please note that this doesn't mean we automatically delete all of the species that don't qualify
[05:25:44] <MasterJonathan> Go for it.
[05:25:52] <Toprawa> We'll just have 28922852925285325284 TCs now :3
[05:25:57] <Cade> Those species would be TC'd with this policy as a reasoning
[05:25:58] <Cal_Jedi> :|
[05:26:03] <Jangsworth> We had that many in the past few weeks
[05:26:04] <Jangsworth> :3
[05:26:04] <MasterJonathan> Generally, I think we need more of these, but that's a different discussion.
[05:26:06] <Cal_Jedi> It would be much easier to CSD everything. :P
[05:26:13] <Cade> True.
[05:26:14] <MasterJonathan> (more notability policies)
[05:26:15] <ecks> i support everything, except for things I oppose
[05:26:17] <Supreme_Emperor> Tope isn't exaggerating :P
[05:26:21] <exiledjedi> Yeah, but some are more arguable.
[05:26:22] <Jangsworth> heh
[05:26:35] <Cade> It's a first step. Alright, vote?
[05:26:36] <Toprawa> We need to debate each and every one in true Wookieepedia fashion.
[05:26:37] <Cal_Jedi> Well, it's not a deal breaker for me. I'm supportive CSD or TC. Let's do it.
[05:26:41] <Toprawa> It's our duty :P
[05:26:41] <MasterJonathan> The obvious stuff can be CSDed.
[05:26:44] <jSarek> MJ: I think this may be the way to do it - lots of specific notability rules, rather than broad ones that find a way for everyone to dislike some part of it.
[05:26:58] <MasterJonathan> Yes, per jSarek.
[05:27:12] <Jangsworth> per Tope
[05:27:12] <MasterJonathan> More questionable species can be TCed.
[05:27:21] <exiledjedi> Just copy-edit it...
[05:27:28] <MasterFred> LET'S GET THIS OVER!
[05:27:29] <Cade> >_>
[05:27:32] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[05:27:32] <PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: There is no open vote on this channel.
[05:27:33] <MasterJonathan> Yes, please copy-edit it first.
[05:27:34] <Jangsworth> Silence, Frederick
[05:27:36] <Cal_Jedi> ~support already!
[05:27:36] <PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: There is no open vote on this channel.
[05:27:40] <Cal_Jedi> :P
[05:27:46] <Toprawa> !abuse
[05:27:46] <Nuku-Nuku> Stop annoying the bot and/or the channel operator(s) and/or regular(s), or kickings shall commence.
[05:27:48] <Jangsworth> So we have two options
[05:27:50] <Cal_Jedi> bah.
[05:27:58] <Toprawa> !:3
[05:27:59] <Nuku-Nuku> Toprawa: Error: ":3" is not a valid command.
[05:28:06] <Cade> Alright, there.
[05:28:07] <ecks> tope pls
[05:28:08] <CC7567> now you're doing !:3? oh God
[05:28:13] <Cade> "If a individual is of a unique and unnamed sentient species that does not appear elsewhere, that species should not receive an article; instead, the character's physical appearance should be described in the individual's article.
Generic background characters should not receive species articles. However, if two or more characters are of the same unidentified species, that species may receive an artic
[05:28:13] <Cade> le. Exceptions can be made for single-member species that are particularly notable."
[05:28:15] <Jangsworth> Which should we go for? Or should we ~support for TC everything or ~oppose it and go with MJ?
[05:28:16] <ecks> what next? ^_^ ?
[05:28:20] <Toprawa> *an* individual, Cade
[05:28:35] <Cade> Let's just vote on the policy, and decide about the TC/CSD later
[05:28:38] <Jangsworth> Ok
[05:28:39] <MasterJonathan> Jang: vote on the policy first before we get to that.
[05:28:41] <Toprawa> We can't go back and change it if we support the grammar error
[05:28:45] <Jangsworth> Sounds good
[05:28:45] <Toprawa> That's policy :P
[05:28:46] <Jangsworth> ~open
[05:28:46] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is open.
[05:28:48] <MasterJonathan> And per Tope
[05:28:49] <Jangsworth> VOTE TIME
[05:28:50] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[05:28:50] <PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[05:28:50] <Cade> Fixed
[05:28:52] <Trip391> ~support
[05:28:52] <PurpleTentacle> Trip391: Support vote counted.
[05:28:53] <Jangsworth> ~support
[05:28:53] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support vote counted.
[05:28:53] <ecks> ~support
[05:28:53] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
[05:28:54] <Cade> ~support as author
[05:28:54] <Toprawa> ~support
[05:28:54] <exiledjedi> ~support
[05:28:54] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[05:28:55] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[05:28:55] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[05:28:55] <Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[05:28:56] <PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[05:28:58] <jSarek> ~support
[05:28:58] <PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[05:28:59] <MasterFred> ~support
[05:29:00] <PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[05:29:01] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[05:29:01] <Darth_Culator> ~support
[05:29:01] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[05:29:01] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[05:29:07] <Jangsworth> Anyone else?
[05:29:09] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[05:29:09] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[05:29:13] <CC7567> ~support
[05:29:13] <PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support vote counted.
[05:29:14] <Jangsworth> Cal pls
[05:29:17] <Jangsworth> o
[05:29:21] <Jangsworth> ~close
[05:29:22] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is closed.
[05:29:23] <Jangsworth> ~tally
[05:29:23] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support: 14
[05:29:26] <Cal_Jedi> darn straight.
[05:29:27] <Jangsworth> Okay policy passed
[05:29:34] <Jangsworth> THAT'S IT WE'RE DONE NOW GET LOST
[05:29:35] <Jangsworth> I mean ok
[05:29:36] <Jangsworth> Thanks
[05:29:38] <Jangsworth> We're done
[05:29:39] <Cade> Hmm
[05:29:39] <Jangsworth> yay
[05:29:43] <ecks> what
[05:29:44] <Jangsworth> Cade, you're done?
[05:29:45] <MasterJonathan> Either TC everything or CSD the obvious stuff.
[05:29:45] <MasterFred> whew
[05:29:46] <ecks> impossible
[05:29:47] <Toprawa> This would have been made better if Cade had all of those 15,000 articles ready for TC and started them immediately :P
[05:29:54] <CorellianPremier> frak yeah!
[05:29:54] <Cal_Jedi> yes XD
[05:29:56] <MasterJonathan> But which one?
[05:29:58] <Cade> Well, I //do// have the list
[05:30:05] <Cal_Jedi> Let's just TC everything and be done with it.
[05:30:06] <Jangsworth> Huh?
[05:30:07] <jSarek> Tope: Just copy/paste Dantescifi's contributions page. :-p
[05:30:13] <Toprawa> Indeed :P
[05:30:13] <CC7567> XD
[05:30:13] <exiledjedi> Heh
[05:30:15] <ecks> Special:Nuke
[05:30:18] <Jangsworth> ...
[05:30:18] <Cal_Jedi> :D
[05:30:20] <Jangsworth> Cade:
[05:30:25] <Cade> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Cade_Calrayn/aliens
[05:30:28] <Cade> Voila.
[05:30:30] <ecks> wait are we done
[05:30:37] <Toprawa> Yeah
[05:30:40] <Toprawa> Unless anyone has something else
[05:30:41] <Jangsworth> Okay, if we're done, I'm going to formally say we're done with Mofference 2014
[05:30:41] <Cal_Jedi> </meetingclosed>
[05:30:41] <ecks> actually i had something
[05:30:43] <Toprawa> Which we will quickly ignore
[05:30:45] <Cade> Aye
[05:30:46] <Cal_Jedi> oh
[05:30:47] <Jangsworth> So pls drive safe and go home pls
[05:30:49] <Cal_Jedi> Let's hear ecks.
[05:30:49] <ecks> SO STAY RIGHT THERE
[05:30:50] <Supreme_Emperor> !andtherewasgreatrejoicing
[05:30:51] <Nuku-Nuku> Supreme_Emperor: Error: "andtherewasgreatrejoicing" is not a valid command.
[05:30:51] <Cal_Jedi> XD
[05:30:53] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +o Nuku-Nuku
[05:30:58] <Toprawa> Thanks for hosting, Jang
[05:31:00] <Jangsworth> Admins, op yourselves :3
[05:31:02] <Jangsworth> :P
[05:31:02] <Cal_Jedi> wait
[05:31:02] <ecks> this'll take an hour or two so take a seat
[05:31:04] <MasterJonathan> Jang: ecks has something
[05:31:04] <Toprawa> !op
[05:31:04] <Cal_Jedi> eckseth
[05:31:05] <Jangsworth> Np
[05:31:05] *** Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +o Toprawa
[05:31:06] <MasterJonathan> !op
[05:31:07] *** Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +o MasterJonathan
[05:31:10] <Cal_Jedi> ~op
[05:31:12] <Toprawa> What, Cal?
[05:31:13] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o grunny
[05:31:15] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Darth_Culator
[05:31:15] <Cal_Jedi> !op
[05:31:16] *** Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +o Cal_Jedi
[05:31:18] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +oooo Cal_Jedi Darth_Culator CC7567 ecks
[05:31:18] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +oo IFYLOFD jSarek
[05:31:20] <Cal_Jedi> ecks said he had something else.
[05:31:25] <ecks> so that SIV addition we discussed about 56 hours ago
[05:31:27] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +o PurpleTentacle
[05:31:30] <MasterJonathan> !kick Cade for the copy-edit fail
[05:31:30] *** Cade was kicked by Nuku-Nuku (for the copy-edit fail)
[05:31:30] *** Joins: Cade (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn)
[05:31:31] *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Cade
[05:31:31] <MasterFred> And we all ignored per tope
[05:31:31] *** Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +v Cade
[05:31:36] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +vvvv arioch Calrayn CorellianPremier DeusFigendi
[05:31:37] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +vvvv exiledjedi GreenTentacle Lord_Oblivion Lord_Zervonn
[05:31:37] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +vvvv MasterFred MathUser2929 N7 Pichu
[05:31:37] *** Jangsworth sets mode: +vvv Supreme_Emperor Tm_T Trip391
[05:31:42] <ecks> everyone shut up pls i'm trying say things here
[05:31:47] <Cal_Jedi> XD XD XD
[05:31:48] <Jangsworth> Pls
[05:31:49] <Jangsworth> no
[05:31:50] <Jangsworth> we're done
[05:31:52] <IFYLOFD> YAY I AM POWER AGAIN
[05:31:52] <ecks> you're fired
[05:31:53] <Toprawa> Let him talk
[05:31:54] <IFYLOFD> !boot Cade
[05:31:54] *** Parts: Cade (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn) (requested by Nuku-Nuku (IFYLOFD))
[05:31:56] <Jangsworth> XD
[05:31:56] *** ecks sets mode: +vvvv Cal_Jedi CC7567 ChanServ Darth_Culator
[05:31:57] *** ecks sets mode: +vvvv ecks grunny IFYLOFD Jangsworth
[05:31:58] *** ecks sets mode: +vvvv jSarek MasterJonathan Nuku-Nuku PurpleTentacle
[05:31:59] <Cal_Jedi> per Tope
[05:31:59] *** ecks sets mode: +vvvv Toprawa Tyber Whopper xqo
[05:32:00] *** Joins: Karo|schismatic (~wookieepe@redacted)
[05:32:01] *** Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +v Karo|schismatic
[05:32:02] <Supreme_Emperor> lets hear ecks out so he can go sleep :P
[05:32:04] <ecks> fuck ur voice
[05:32:05] <Calrayn> hey there
[05:32:07] <Jangsworth> fuck ur op
[05:32:08] *** Joins: Cade (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn)
[05:32:08] *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Cade
[05:32:09] *** Toprawa sets mode: +m
[05:32:09] <ecks> ANYWAY
[05:32:09] *** Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +v Cade
[05:32:10] <Jangsworth> Xd speak
[05:32:12] <ecks> �shut up
[05:32:16] <ecks> so that SIV thing
[05:32:27] <MasterJonathan> �04�LET ECKS SPEAK, PLEASE!�99�
[05:32:36] <ecks> I was thinking, what do you guys think about a policy that requires an editor to make X edits per Y time to retain voting rights?
[05:32:43] <ecks> like 50 edits per 12/6 months or something
[05:32:52] <Jangsworth> Thanks, MJ.
[05:32:54] <Cal_Jedi> like we do to keep admin rights?
[05:32:58] <ecks> right now we have users who haven't edited in literally 36 years coming back to oppose random things
[05:32:59] <ecks> yeah
[05:32:59] <Toprawa> I'm ok with that
[05:33:06] <Cal_Jedi> I've thought about that. Definitely a possibility.
[05:33:08] <Toprawa> It prevents people like Star Neptune from coming back for no reason but to troll people's RFUs >.>
[05:33:09] <MasterJonathan> I like that idea.
[05:33:12] <jSarek> You know me, oppose things restricting voting rights in general.
[05:33:13] <Supreme_Emperor> sounds reasonable, it people don't contribute, why should they retain voting rights
[05:33:16] <Cade> Yes
[05:33:19] <Cal_Jedi> Per SupEmp
[05:33:26] <Cade> Or like KEJ
[05:33:33] <Jangsworth> I agree
[05:33:36] <Cade> TheMasterMind, I mean.
[05:33:38] <Cal_Jedi> 50 edits in 6 months seems reasonable.
[05:33:43] *** MasterJonathan sets mode: -m
[05:33:51] <Cal_Jedi> People can knock out 50 edits in an hour, in all honesty.
[05:33:53] <MasterJonathan> (+m is useless when everyone is voiced)
[05:33:57] <ecks> yeah
[05:34:01] <Toprawa> oh yeah :P
[05:34:04] <Supreme_Emperor> then we got people like Cade, doing a thousand edits a day XD
[05:34:05] <Toprawa> I wasn't paying attention :P
[05:34:05] <ecks> 2 hours every six months
[05:34:07] <ecks> isn't a lot
[05:34:11] <Cade> ^_^
[05:34:22] <Cal_Jedi> Let's put this to a formal vote, because I'm really liking it. :P
[05:34:31] <Jangsworth> And the winner for Worthless edits award is...
[05:34:38] *** Jangsworth sets mode: -v Cade
[05:34:38] <ecks> 50 per six months? also this would be any edits
[05:34:38] <Toprawa> What is it again? 50/12 or 50/6?
[05:34:40] <ecks> not just mainspace
[05:34:42] <Karo|schismatic> You can have my voting rights when you take them from my cold dead hands!
[05:34:48] <ecks> (of course subject to productivity requirement)
[05:35:02] <Toprawa> That's what we're doing, Karo :P
[05:35:05] <Cal_Jedi> XD
[05:35:05] <MasterJonathan> Is this any edits or only mainspace?
[05:35:06] <jSarek> Jang: Jack Nebulax won that as a Lifetime Achievement award years ago. ;-)
[05:35:08] *** jSarek was kicked by Nuku-Nuku (You have been kicked for using a word prohibited in the presence of this bot. Please use more appropriate language in the future.)
[05:35:08] <Supreme_Emperor> 50 good, non vandalism mainspace edits
[05:35:11] <Karo|schismatic> No, but seriously, it is a good idea.
[05:35:13] <Jangsworth> XD
[05:35:15] <Toprawa> XD
[05:35:19] <Cal_Jedi> I would be for 50/6
[05:35:19] <Supreme_Emperor> excluding Karo, because Karo
[05:35:20] <Jangsworth> bye jSarek
[05:35:20] <ecks> I don't think it needs to be mainspace
[05:35:21] <Cal_Jedi> XD
[05:35:23] <IFYLOFD> hah
[05:35:32] <ecks> Just make sure the edits overall are in line with the productivity requirement
[05:35:35] <Cal_Jedi> I agree with ecks.
[05:35:37] *** Joins: jSarek (redacted@gateway/web/freenode/ip.redacted)
[05:35:37] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jSarek
[05:35:39] <Supreme_Emperor> ^^^
[05:35:40] <ecks> wb
[05:35:41] <Cal_Jedi> At least they're staying active in some department.
[05:35:41] <Cade> ~support
[05:35:42] <Jangsworth> QUICK
[05:35:42] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: There is no open vote on this channel.
[05:35:43] <Jangsworth> ~open
[05:35:43] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is open.
[05:35:46] <Cade> ~support
[05:35:47] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[05:35:47] <Jangsworth> VOTE
[05:35:48] <Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[05:35:48] <PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[05:35:49] <Jangsworth> ~support
[05:35:49] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[05:35:49] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support vote counted.
[05:35:49] <PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[05:35:49] <Toprawa> I'd support the mainspace, but this is better than nothing
[05:35:51] <ecks> ~support
[05:35:52] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
[05:35:56] <Toprawa> Wait, damnit
[05:35:56] <MasterFred> ~support
[05:35:57] <PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[05:35:57] <MasterJonathan> ~support anything
[05:35:58] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[05:36:02] <Toprawa> ~support
[05:36:02] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[05:36:02] <Supreme_Emperor> :P
[05:36:02] <CorellianPremier> ~oppose
[05:36:03] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Oppose vote counted.
[05:36:05] <Toprawa> Ugh
[05:36:08] <jSarek> Crap, the bot booted me and I don't know what we're voting on.
[05:36:10] <Jangsworth> Wait, what Tope?
[05:36:14] <Toprawa> I want to propose one more thing to this, I think
[05:36:16] <Trip391> ~support
[05:36:16] <PurpleTentacle> Trip391: Support vote counted.
[05:36:17] <Toprawa> But go ahead
[05:36:19] <Toprawa> we can have two votes
[05:36:20] <Jangsworth> ~close
[05:36:20] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Voting is closed.
[05:36:22] <Jangsworth> ~tally
[05:36:22] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Oppose: 1
[05:36:22] <PurpleTentacle> Jangsworth: Support: 9
[05:36:24] <Jangsworth> ok go ahead
[05:36:25] <Cal_Jedi> jSarek: 50 edits per 6 months.
[05:36:28] <ecks> jSarek: 50 edits/6 months to retain voting rights
[05:36:30] <Jangsworth> We don't have enough votes
[05:36:34] <Toprawa> Yes, we do
[05:36:36] <Cal_Jedi> edits can be any edit, not just mainspace.
[05:36:37] <MasterJonathan> Yes we do. 10 total
[05:36:38] <Toprawa> we need at least 10
[05:36:48] <ecks> 1+9 = 19
[05:36:50] <ecks> ???
[05:36:51] <ecks> PROFIT
[05:36:53] <Toprawa> ^
[05:36:53] <MasterJonathan> XD
[05:36:54] <Cal_Jedi> LOGIC
[05:36:55] <MasterFred> XD
[05:36:57] <CorellianPremier> fail
[05:37:00] <Supreme_Emperor> XD
[05:37:06] <Jangsworth> mofference is over i dont give a fuck
[05:37:06] <MasterJonathan> "For consensus to be achieved, a minimum of ten Wookieepedians must contribute a vote or statement."
[05:37:14] <Supreme_Emperor> lets just vote again, im sure a few people missed the vote
[05:37:15] <ecks> I need vodka now
[05:37:20] <Cal_Jedi> Let's just open it again and everyone vote this time. :P
[05:37:21] <ecks> we already have consensus
[05:37:23] <Toprawa> Wait
[05:37:23] <ecks> deal with it.png
[05:37:29] *** Parts: Jangsworth (~JangFett@wookieepedia/administrator/JangFett) ("yes")
[05:37:30] <Toprawa> Yeah, we have consensus
[05:37:30] <jSarek> Well, let the record show I would have opposed, if the bot hadn't booted me for forgetting that He Whom Shall Not Be Named should not be named. :-p
[05:37:33] <Toprawa> I want to amend this
[05:37:35] <Toprawa> I'll run it.
[05:37:35] <ecks> great the host left
[05:37:38] <Karo|schismatic> Let me vote for it before it is passed and I lose my voting rights.
[05:37:50] <Cal_Jedi> Let the Topeth speak.
[05:37:53] <ecks> we'll grandfather your last vote in
[05:37:58] <Toprawa> We should specify that these 50 edits should be edits that were not reverted or deleted.
[05:38:04] <Cal_Jedi> Yes.
[05:38:05] <Supreme_Emperor> yes
[05:38:06] <Toprawa> That's in line with the other SIV wording
[05:38:18] <Supreme_Emperor> and maybe not userpage edits
[05:38:40] <Cal_Jedi> Good point, although I think we should keep it where it's still outside the mainspace limit.
[05:38:44] <Supreme_Emperor> no spamming 50 edits to your userpage fanon :P
[05:38:44] <Toprawa> I'm ok with excluding userpage and talk page edits
[05:38:44] <ecks> should these 50 edits be made before the vote starts?
[05:38:53] <ecks> or is that already included
[05:38:59] <Cal_Jedi> vote of what?
[05:39:04] <Cal_Jedi> oh
[05:39:04] <ecks> I mean
[05:39:05] <Toprawa> ecks> We can clarify that here regardless
[05:39:06] <Cal_Jedi> nevermind.
[05:39:07] <Supreme_Emperor> i'd be okay with so long as they have 50 edits by the time they vote
[05:39:11] <Cal_Jedi> I would say yes, ecks.
[05:39:12] <Toprawa> Ok, this is what we're voting on:
[05:39:32] <ecks> it might be in SIV already but I'm 2high4this
[05:39:35] <Toprawa> These 50 edits must be edits that were not reverted or deleted; Userpage and talk page edits do not apply; and the edits must be made before the start of the forum
[05:39:37] <Toprawa> ~open
[05:39:37] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[05:39:44] <ecks> ~support
[05:39:45] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted.
[05:39:48] <Toprawa> ~support
[05:39:48] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[05:39:48] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[05:39:48] <PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[05:39:53] <Trip391> ~support
[05:39:54] <PurpleTentacle> Trip391: Support vote counted.
[05:39:55] <Cade> ~support
[05:39:55] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[05:39:56] <Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[05:39:56] <Karo|schismatic> ~support
[05:39:56] <PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[05:39:56] <PurpleTentacle> Karo|schismatic: Support vote counted.
[05:39:57] <Darth_Culator> ~support
[05:39:57] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[05:39:57] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[05:39:58] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[05:39:58] <jSarek> ~oppose
[05:39:59] <PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Oppose vote counted.
[05:39:59] <MasterFred> ~support
[05:39:59] <PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[05:40:02] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[05:40:02] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[05:40:13] <Toprawa> 10 seconds.
[05:40:19] <ecks> 5
[05:40:20] <ecks> 4
[05:40:21] <ecks> 3
[05:40:21] <ecks> 2
[05:40:22] <ecks> 1
[05:40:24] <ecks> 0
[05:40:25] <Toprawa> ~close
[05:40:26] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[05:40:28] <Toprawa> ~tally
[05:40:28] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Oppose: 1
[05:40:28] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 11
[05:40:30] <Cal_Jedi> YAY
[05:40:32] <Toprawa> Motion passed.
[05:40:34] <Toprawa> MOFFERENCE IS OVAH
[05:40:36] <Cal_Jedi> :D
[05:40:43] <Cal_Jedi> Thank you to everyone who came and participated.
[05:40:43] <Supreme_Emperor> !andtherewasmuchrejoicing
[05:40:43] <Nuku-Nuku> Yay.