[19:59] * Toprawa sets mode: +m
[20:00] <@Toprawa> !hiall
[20:00] <@Nuku-Nuku> Toprawa: Error: "hiall" is not a valid command.
[20:00] * MasterFred (~MasterFre@wookieepedia/Master-Fredcerique) has joined #wookieepedia
[20:00] * ChanServ sets mode: +v MasterFred
[20:00] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +v MasterFred
[20:00] <@Toprawa> what ist hat command?
[20:00] <@Culator|Away> !hieverybody
[20:00] <@Nuku-Nuku> Hello, arioch, Ayrehead02, Cade|Elsewhere, Cal_Jedi, CC7567, ChanServ, Culator|Away, DeusFigendi, ecks, exiledjedi, GreenTentacle, Jangeth, Jaymach, Karo|away, MasterFred, N7, Nuku-Nuku, Pichu, PurpleTentacle, Ralltiir, SirCavalier, Supreme_Emperor, Tm_T, tomtiger11, Toprawa, trip391, and Tyber !!!
[20:00] <@Toprawa> !hieverybody
[20:00] <@Nuku-Nuku> Hello, arioch, Ayrehead02, Cade|Elsewhere, Cal_Jedi, CC7567, ChanServ, Culator|Away, DeusFigendi, ecks, exiledjedi, GreenTentacle, Jangeth, Jaymach, Karo|away, MasterFred, N7, Nuku-Nuku, Pichu, PurpleTentacle, Ralltiir, SirCavalier, Supreme_Emperor, Tm_T, tomtiger11, Toprawa, trip391, and Tyber !!!
[20:00] <@Toprawa> haha
[20:00] <+MasterFred> hi
[20:00] <+Supreme_Emperor> cutting it close Fred :P
[20:00] <+MasterFred> This turnout is disappointing. :/
[20:00] <@Toprawa> How do I silence people now?
[20:00] <+MasterFred> Was watching Family Fued.
[20:00] <@Toprawa> Remind me, please
[20:00] <@Cal_Jedi> !markov is this
[20:00] * CC7567 sets mode: -v CC7567
[20:00] <@Nuku-Nuku> is this from?
[20:00] * CC7567 sets mode: +v CC7567
[20:00] <+Supreme_Emperor> !markov Ish tis
[20:00] <@Nuku-Nuku> Supreme_Emperor: Error: I found a broken link in the Markov chain. Maybe I received two bad links to start the chain.
[20:01] <+Supreme_Emperor> !markov Mofference
[20:01] * Culator|Away changes topic to 'Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://wookieepedia.com - a proud subsidiary of The Walt Disney Company - Channel and site status: MOFFERENCE NOW NOW NOW - Quotes: [Redacted by administration]'
[20:01] <@Nuku-Nuku> Mofference is one of my own SNES and Genesis.
[20:01] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv arioch Ayrehead02 Cade|Elsewhere DeusFigendi
[20:01] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv exiledjedi Jaymach Karo|away MasterFred
[20:01] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv N7 Pichu Supreme_Emperor Tm_T
[20:01] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvv tomtiger11 trip391 Tyber
[20:01] <@Toprawa> Ok, everyone
[20:01] <@Toprawa> Please pay attention
[20:01] <@Toprawa> Welcome to Mofference 2013.
[20:02] <@Toprawa> For some of you, this is common procedure by now
[20:02] <@Toprawa> But for others, this is new.
[20:02] <@Toprawa> The Mofference is basically a real-time CT.
[20:02] <@Toprawa> We'll have people presenting their topics.
[20:02] <@Toprawa> While they do, everyone else is de-voiced.
[20:02] <@Toprawa> Once the topic is presented and the presenter is done talking, the floor will be opened for discussion and then voting if necessary
[20:03] <@Toprawa> Everyone eligible to vote will do so by voting through GT's bot, PurpleTentacle
[20:03] <@Toprawa> The commands are simple.
[20:03] <@Toprawa> ~support
[20:03] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: There is no open vote on this channel.
[20:03] <@Toprawa> ~oppose
[20:03] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: There is no open vote on this channel.
[20:03] <@Toprawa> That's it.
[20:03] <@Toprawa> If you say anything else, it won't get counted in the tally
[20:03] <@Toprawa> No "Yes, I support."
[20:03] <@Toprawa> Just ~support
[20:04] <@Toprawa> CC will be running things.
[20:04] <@Toprawa> We remind everyone to stay on topic, and we're super duper cereal about that
[20:04] <@CC7567> No one wants to be here for four hours.
[20:04] <@Toprawa> People who are off-topic will be silenced and/or removed from the channel
[20:04] <@Toprawa> I'm looking at you, specifically, Fred and Karo.
[20:05] <@Toprawa> Ok, that's my spiel
[20:05] <@Toprawa> CC, get us going
[20:05] <@CC7567> Also, only registered Wookieepedia users will be given a voice, in accordance with WP:SIV
[20:05] <@CC7567> Without further ado, let us begin
[20:05] <@CC7567> Also, admins, please don't talk unless it's your turn
[20:05] <@CC7567> Since technically we can't devoice you
[20:06] <@CC7567> Okay, time to start
[20:06] <@CC7567> First up is Cal
[20:06] <@CC7567> Cal, you have the floor
[20:06] <@Toprawa> Oh, right
[20:06] <@Toprawa> Wait
[20:06] <@Toprawa> One more thing
[20:06] <@Toprawa> Cade has a narrow window starting at 7:30 to present his topics.
[20:06] <@Toprawa> So once he shows up, whenever we're finished with whatever topic we're on, he gets the floor
[20:06] <@Toprawa> He'll do his thing, then he's out
[20:06] <@Toprawa> Ok, go :P
[20:07] <@CC7567> Cal_Jedi, you may begin
[20:07] <@Cal_Jedi> Okay. Here we go:
[20:07] <@Cal_Jedi> Votes by any users that have less than 50 valid (non-vandalism, non-fanon) Main namespace (article) edits will NOT be counted, with special limited votes such as Mr./Miss Star Wars and Coolest/Lamest being the exceptions. A blocked user's votes do not count on any active discussion or vote of any type (except WP:QOTD at the discretion of an administrator) for the entire duration of the block.
[20:07] <@Cal_Jedi> That is what the Single-issue voter policy currently says.
[20:07] <@Cal_Jedi> I have provided it for reference.
[20:07] <@Cal_Jedi> Now,
[20:07] <@Cal_Jedi> Votes by any users that have less than 50 valid (non-vandalism, non-fanon) Main namespace (article) edits will NOT be counted. In addition, any user who has placed {{Tl|User left}} on their user page, or who has in some other way made it clear that they have departed the wiki, must reearn the right to vote. From the time that they stated their intentions to leave, whether by the use of...
[20:07] <@Cal_Jedi> ...{{Tl|User left}} or some other means, they must earn another 50 valid Main namespace edits before they can vote. The exception to the voting requirement is with special limited votes such as Mr./Miss Star Wars and Coolest/Lamest. A blocked user's votes do not count on any active discussion or vote of any type {{C|except [[Wookieepedia:Quote of the Day|WP:QOTD]] at the discretion of an...
[20:07] <@Cal_Jedi> ...administrator}} for the entire duration of the block.
[20:07] <@Cal_Jedi> That is what I would like to change it to
[20:08] <@Cal_Jedi> I believe this amendment is needed to prevent inappropriate abuse of our rather loose voting policy. I believe our voting policy
[20:08] <@Cal_Jedi> is currently set up with the purpose to mainly have current, active users vote. This amendment will help promote that end. In simple terms,
[20:08] <@Cal_Jedi> if someone places {{User left}} or otherwise shows that they have left, then their voting rights are basically "reset." From the time they
[20:08] <@Cal_Jedi> left, they must earn the right to vote again.
[20:08] <@Cal_Jedi> It's pretty straightforward.
[20:08] <@Cal_Jedi> If it's not clear for whatever reason, I'm ready for questions.
[20:08] <@Cal_Jedi> Thanks.
[20:08] <@CC7567> Alright, let's have discussion
[20:08] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv arioch Ayrehead02 Cade|Elsewhere DeusFigendi
[20:08] <@CC7567> Remember to STAY ON TOPIC
[20:08] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv exiledjedi Jaymach Karo|away MasterFred
[20:08] <@CC7567> Thanks
[20:08] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv N7 Pichu Supreme_Emperor Tm_T
[20:08] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvv tomtiger11 trip391 Tyber
[20:09] <@Cal_Jedi> no questions?
[20:09] <+MasterFred> "Whether by use of {{Tl|User left}} or some other means"
[20:09] <+MasterFred> What means would we allow?
[20:09] * Toprawa sets mode: -v tomtiger11
[20:09] * Toprawa sets mode: -v Pichu
[20:09] <+MasterFred> Would simply telling an admin count, or must it be more official?
[20:09] * Toprawa sets mode: -v N7
[20:09] <@Cal_Jedi> I'm assuming common sense here. For example, if someone puts something like "I'm sick of Wookieepedia. I'm leaving!"
[20:09] * Toprawa sets mode: -v DeusFigendi
[20:09] <@Cal_Jedi> Technically, he didn't put {{User left}} on his page
[20:10] <@Cal_Jedi> However, he did make it quite clear that he was leaving.
[20:10] <@CC7567> I believe it's because not everyone uses specifically {{User left}}
[20:10] <@Cal_Jedi> Indeed.
[20:10] <+MasterFred> But what if he/she just got mad and said that, but then continues to edit.
[20:10] <+MasterFred> Should we include an activity requirement?
[20:10] * Toprawa sets mode: -v arioch
[20:10] <@CC7567> That's in the proposal
[20:10] <@CC7567> "earn another 50 valid Main namespace edits before they can vote"
[20:10] <@Cal_Jedi> Yes. From the time they state that, they must once again get the needed votes.
[20:11] <@Cal_Jedi> So, if they said it and then made the needed votes within the next day, they can vote again.
[20:11] <+MasterFred> What I'm saying is diferent.
[20:11] <+MasterFred> *different
[20:11] <+MasterFred> What if they say that, but then continue editing the next day?
[20:11] <+MasterFred> Hmmmmm
[20:11] <@Cal_Jedi> Still the same thing. They have technically "left"
[20:11] <@Cal_Jedi> Even if they haven't really, they admitted that their intentions were.
[20:11] <@Cal_Jedi> Arguably, this could be stricter, but I think this amendment is definitely a step in the right direction.
[20:12] <@Culator|Away> A flounce is a flounce.
[20:12] <@Jangeth> I don't like it when people put a {{user left}} template on their page. don't edit for a while, then come back and vote
[20:12] <@Toprawa> per Culator
[20:12] <@Toprawa> Flouncing indicates a desire to disassociate yourself with Wookieepedia and its community
[20:12] <@Toprawa> I feel like any further attempts to be a part of it after that is just bordering on disruption
[20:12] <@CC7567> Plus, it's easy to revert the edit and remove {{User left}} if one changes their mind
[20:12] <@Cal_Jedi> And yes. Jang is correct. The point of this is to prevent people from simply voting on Wookieepedia, even though they stop contributing.
[20:13] <@Culator|Away> If you remounce US citizenship for tax purposes but don't actually move away, you still can't vote anymore.
[20:13] <+Ayrehead02> Who would keep track of users that have left without using the {{user left}} template?
[20:13] <@Jangeth> What about others that don't edit in a long time (but forgot to place a {{user left}} on their page)
[20:13] <@Cal_Jedi> It would be easy to keep track of.
[20:13] <@Cal_Jedi> @ayre
[20:13] <@Culator|Away> That would be a separate amendment, Jang.
[20:13] <@Toprawa> We would just see who's trying to vote on specific forums
[20:13] <@Jangeth> All right
[20:13] <@Cal_Jedi> When someone votes, check their user page or whatever.
[20:13] <@Toprawa> We wouldn't need to formally keep track of it
[20:13] <+Ayrehead02> I suppose that makes sense
[20:14] <@CC7567> Anyone else have questions?
[20:14] <@Jangeth> I'm good
[20:14] <+MasterFred> Also, if they do say they're leaving but then change their mind and revert the edit, does that count as them leaving
[20:14] <+MasterFred> ?
[20:14] <+Supreme_Emperor> what i was going to ask was just covered by Fred :P
[20:14] <@Cal_Jedi> Yes. As Culator said, they've already made their decision to "leave"
[20:14] <@Toprawa> Unless we can identify it as an obvious error
[20:14] <@Cal_Jedi> even if they change their mind, they must face the consequences.
[20:14] <+MasterFred> Ok.
[20:14] <@Toprawa> That would be up to admin judgment
[20:14] <@Cal_Jedi> And yes, per Tope
[20:14] <+MasterFred> I think I'm good now.
[20:14] <@Jangeth> Ok, Tope answered my new question. :P
[20:14] <+MasterFred> Thanks for answering, Cal.
[20:14] <@CC7567> Okay, anyone else with a question, you have ten seconds to say something before we vote, in the interest of keeping things moving
[20:15] <@CC7567> We shall vote now
[20:15] <@CC7567> On Cal's proposal to amend WP:SIV
[20:15] <@CC7567> Scroll up if you forgot what the proposal was
[20:15] <@CC7567> ~open
[20:15] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Voting is open.
[20:15] <@Jangeth> ~support
[20:15] <@PurpleTentacle> Jangeth: Support vote counted.
[20:15] <@Cal_Jedi> ~support
[20:15] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[20:15] <+Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[20:15] <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[20:15] <+trip391> ~support
[20:15] <@PurpleTentacle> trip391: Support vote counted.
[20:15] <+exiledjedi> ~support
[20:15] <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[20:15] <@Culator|Away> ~support
[20:15] <+Ayrehead02> ~support
[20:15] <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted.
[20:15] <@PurpleTentacle> Culator|Away: Support vote counted.
[20:15] <+MasterFred> -support
[20:15] <@Toprawa> ~support
[20:15] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[20:15] <@CC7567> ~support
[20:15] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support vote counted.
[20:15] <@Jangeth> Fred: Tilde :P
[20:15] <@Culator|Away> ~ not -, Fred.
[20:16] <+MasterFred> dangit
[20:16] <+MasterFred> ~support
[20:16] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[20:16] <@CC7567> I'm closing voting
[20:16] <@CC7567> ~close
[20:16] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Voting is closed.
[20:16] <@CC7567> ~tally
[20:16] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support: 10
[20:16] <@Cal_Jedi> Thanks everyone.
[20:16] <@CC7567> Next item of business
[20:16] <@CC7567> Jangeth, you have the floor
[20:16] <@Jangeth> Okay
[20:16] <@Jangeth> Hi everyone :P
[20:17] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv Ayrehead02 Cade|Elsewhere exiledjedi Jaymach
[20:17] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv Karo|away MasterFred Supreme_Emperor Tm_T
[20:17] * Toprawa sets mode: -vv trip391 Tyber
[20:17] <@Jangeth> Recently, there was some confusion on my part regarding the width of the battle infobox vs standard infoboxes. I believe that the Layout Guide could benefit the mentioning of the different types of widths of the infoboxes. Images should be 300px (as a standard) in war/battle/duel/treaty articles, while other infobox images should be 250px. I was thinking of either inserting the information here:
[20:17] <@Jangeth> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:LG#Infobox since it would make greater sense than placing it in WP:I. For new editors, the information might come in handy, and it will server as an easier way to access the width of the infoboxes than having to go to http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Battle_infobox as an example.
[20:17] <@Jangeth> My proposal:
[20:18] <@Jangeth> Here's how this will work: We add in a note in the WP:LG, specifically the infobox section, explaining the types of infobox widths
[20:18] <@Jangeth> 250px, 300px
[20:18] <@Jangeth> Short and simple.
[20:18] <@Jangeth> Thanks for your time :P
[20:19] <@CC7567> Okay, let's open for discussion
[20:19] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv arioch Ayrehead02 Cade|Elsewhere DeusFigendi
[20:19] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv exiledjedi Jaymach Karo|away MasterFred
[20:19] <@Cal_Jedi> I admittedly don't know very much about infoboxes in battle articles, etc. I'm assuming that 300px is the norm or best looking?
[20:19] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv N7 Pichu Supreme_Emperor Tm_T
[20:19] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvv tomtiger11 trip391 Tyber
[20:19] <+MasterFred> Ok, one little thing.
[20:19] <@Toprawa> 250px and 300px are the set standards for these templates
[20:19] <+MasterFred> Just make a not about images that aren't 250.
[20:19] <@Toprawa> These are what the images /should/ be sized at if possible
[20:19] <@Toprawa> Some aren't that big
[20:19] <+MasterFred> Some images aren't that big.
[20:20] <@GreenTentacle> As long as we make it clear that smaller images shouldn't be stretched.
[20:20] <@Cal_Jedi> Tope: Gotcha.
[20:20] <@Toprawa> per GT
[20:20] <+MasterFred> per
[20:20] <@Cal_Jedi> Yes.
[20:20] <+MasterFred> Galactic Battleground icons come to mind.
[20:20] <@Cal_Jedi> Perhaps a small blurb stating that smaller images can't be stretched?
[20:20] <@Toprawa> Yes
[20:20] <@Jangeth> Yes, good point GT
[20:20] <@Jangeth> Yeah
[20:20] <+MasterFred> All I needed to know.
[20:21] <@Culator|Away> So wait, where is the size mentioned now? I don't even see it in WP:I.
[20:21] <@Jangeth> That's where I originally looked
[20:21] <@Toprawa> It's not, I don't think
[20:21] <@Jangeth> Then I went to WP:LG, nothing
[20:21] <@Toprawa> It's just what we do by practice
[20:21] <@Cal_Jedi> Okay. So long as that is added, it sounds good to me. Will definitely clear up confusion.
[20:21] <@Culator|Away> Good lord. All this time...
[20:21] <@Cal_Jedi> Practice put into law is a good thing.
[20:21] <@CC7567> Okay, any other questions? topics?
[20:21] <+Supreme_Emperor> one thing
[20:22] <+Supreme_Emperor> i know there are a few articles like this, where there are say 4 sides in the battle
[20:22] <@Jangeth> Yeah, there are some that have 350px
[20:22] <+Supreme_Emperor> having 4 columns stretches the infobox, i assume this would be a special exception to this?
[20:22] <@Toprawa> These should be identified in whatever wording goes in
[20:22] <@Toprawa> Whatever use 350
[20:22] <+Supreme_Emperor> ok, thats all i've got
[20:23] <@Toprawa> Can someone list these right now for us for reference?
[20:23] <@Cal_Jedi> Adding it a blurb about smaller images.
[20:23] <@Culator|Away> Hang on.
[20:23] <@Cal_Jedi> And exception for 350px
[20:23] <@Culator|Away> The template pages mostly list the sizes.
[20:23] <@Cal_Jedi> is that what you were talking about?
[20:23] <@Culator|Away> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Battle
[20:23] <@Culator|Away> "width (defaults to 300px, 350px, and 400px for two-, three-, and four-way battles, respectively)"
[20:24] <+Supreme_Emperor> ah
[20:24] <@Toprawa> Ok
[20:24] <@Culator|Away> So the verbiage used should be something like "Images used in infoboxes will be scaled to 250px for most infoboxes, with larger default sizes identified on their respective template pages. Images smaller than the default infobox size should not be scaled up."
[20:25] <+MasterFred> Are battles the only articles with larger images?
[20:25] * @Culator|Away comes up with things on the fly like this for a living now. :P
[20:25] <@CC7567> Fred: yes, they should be
[20:25] <@Toprawa> Ok, what about this:
[20:25] <+MasterFred> Then I say it might be worth noting specifically.
[20:26] <+Ayrehead02> I agree with Fred if it's the only example
[20:26] <@Toprawa> "Images used in infoboxes will be scaled to 250px for all infoboxes except conflict infoboxes (battles, wars, etc.), which use either 300px, 350px, or 400px, depending on specific template size. Larger default sizes are identified on the respective template pages. Images smaller than the default infobox size should not be scaled up."
[20:27] <@Jangeth> I like that
[20:27] <+Supreme_Emperor> sounds good
[20:27] <@Cal_Jedi> Yes. Sounds good.
[20:27] <+exiledjedi> Sounds good
[20:27] <@CC7567> Where is this going to be added? The LG?
[20:27] <@Jangeth> Yeah
[20:27] <@Jangeth> In the infobox section
[20:27] <@CC7567> Okay, sounds good
[20:27] <@Toprawa> Do we want to add it to WP:I too?
[20:27] <@Jangeth> Unless Culator or anyone wants to put it in WP:I
[20:27] <@Jangeth> Yeah
[20:27] <@Culator|Away> Already got bullets there under the example infobox.
[20:27] <+MasterFred> I like this.
[20:27] <@CC7567> Alright
[20:28] <@CC7567> If there are any other concerns, you have ten seconds to say something
[20:28] <@CC7567> If not, let us begin voting
[20:28] <@CC7567> You are voting on Toprawa's proposed blurb, which will be added to the Layout Guide under the infobox section
[20:28] <@CC7567> ~open
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Voting is open.
[20:28] * Cade (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn) has joined #wookieepedia
[20:28] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Cade
[20:28] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +v Cade
[20:28] <+Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[20:28] <@Cal_Jedi> ~support
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <@Toprawa> ~support
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <@Jangeth> ~support
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Jangeth: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <+exiledjedi> ~support
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <+Ayrehead02> ~support
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <+trip391> ~support
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> trip391: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <@Culator|Away> ~support
[20:28] <@GreenTentacle> ~support
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Culator|Away: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <+MasterFred> ~support
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <@CC7567> ~support
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support vote counted.
[20:29] <@CC7567> ~close
[20:29] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Voting is closed.
[20:29] <@CC7567> ~tally
[20:29] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support: 11
[20:29] <@Culator|Away> Oh, derp.
[20:29] * Culator|Away is now known as Darth_Culator
[20:29] <+Supreme_Emperor> XD
[20:30] <@CC7567> Cade has the floor for the first of his proposals
[20:30] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv arioch Ayrehead02 Cade Cade|Elsewhere
[20:30] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv DeusFigendi exiledjedi Jaymach Karo|away
[20:30] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv MasterFred N7 Pichu Supreme_Emperor
[20:30] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv Tm_T tomtiger11 trip391 Tyber
[20:30] <@CC7567> The CUSWE, I believe
[20:30] <@CC7567> Hurry up Cade :P
[20:30] * Darth_Culator sets mode: +v Cade
[20:30] <@Toprawa> I suggested he go in order of easiest vote
[20:30] <@CC7567> as soon as you have a voice :P
[20:30] <@Toprawa> Since the CUSWE might be a discussion
[20:30] <@Toprawa> but go ahead
[20:30] <+Cade> So, the CUSWE is dead.
[20:31] <+Cade> And therefore, I don't see why we should still have a template or an official friendship with them.
[20:32] <+Cade> So, I propose the deprecation of the template and the removal of the Offical friendship.
[20:32] <+Cade> Not much more than that.
[20:32] <@CC7567> Ok, discussion time
[20:32] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv arioch Ayrehead02 Cade|Elsewhere DeusFigendi
[20:32] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv exiledjedi Jaymach Karo|away MasterFred
[20:32] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv N7 Pichu Supreme_Emperor Tm_T
[20:32] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvv tomtiger11 trip391 Tyber
[20:32] <@Toprawa> CUSWE indeed appears dead
[20:32] <@CC7567> Have any efforts been made to contact whoever owns the CUSWE?
[20:32] <+Supreme_Emperor> has any attempt to contact them been made?
[20:32] <@Jangeth> Yeah, I had a SH thread about this not too long ago
[20:32] <@Toprawa> CUSWE was run by Bob Vitas
[20:33] <+MasterFred> I see no problems here.
[20:33] <@Jangeth> I was wondering if we should keep them or talk to Bob Vitas
[20:33] <@Toprawa> He apparently just didn't renew his web domain
[20:33] <@Toprawa> I thought he was going to, but it's been like 5 months or something
[20:33] <@Cal_Jedi> If it ever starts up again, we could always reinstate it.
[20:34] <@CC7567> Per Cal
[20:34] <+MasterFred> Yeah
[20:34] <+Ayrehead02> Wouldn't reinstating it be a lot more work the depreciating it?
[20:34] * Cade_ (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn) has joined #wookieepedia
[20:34] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +v Cade_
[20:34] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Cade_
[20:34] <@Darth_Culator> Per Cal. Bob's been an *actual* friend of Wookieepedia. Like in real-life, at Celebrations.
[20:34] <+Cade_> To be honest, there's no reason for us to be friends regardless
[20:34] <+Cade_> The content is rather poor
[20:34] <@Cal_Jedi> Ayre: Perhaps, but I think most people would resupport it.
[20:34] <@Cal_Jedi> Except for Cade, apparently. :P
[20:34] <+Cade_> Eh?
[20:34] <@Toprawa> I agree, but the fact that he's an actual SW author will be enough to sway everyone
[20:34] <@Jangeth> I don't agree with throwing them out based on the content
[20:34] <@Toprawa> He's not just a fan
[20:35] <@Toprawa> CUSWE is complete Vitasfanon, though
[20:35] <@Toprawa> Anyways, that's kind of immaterial
[20:35] <@GreenTentacle> A lot of CSWE entries were lifted directly from it.
[20:35] <@Cal_Jedi> I think there is legitimate reasons for them to be official friends, should they restart it. However, I don't think that's the discussion for the momentn.
[20:35] <+Cade_> Well, I was basing my judgement on his completely false Revan entry.
[20:35] <+Supreme_Emperor> did we ever hear any word from him?
[20:35] <@Cal_Jedi> For now, I think we can remove it.
[20:35] <+Supreme_Emperor> or did he just vanish
[20:35] <+Cade_> ^^
[20:35] <@Toprawa> We didn't contact him
[20:35] <@Toprawa> He just vanished
[20:35] <@Darth_Culator> So we can leave the CUSWEID template dead even if we do reinstate the OFW. :P
[20:35] <+Cade_> Per Culator.
[20:35] <@CC7567> Ok, any other concerns, you have ten seconds to raise your voice
[20:36] <@Darth_Culator> But for now, kill them both.
[20:36] <@Jangeth> Does CUSWE have to go throw the OFW process?
[20:36] <@Jangeth> threw
[20:36] <@CC7567> through :P
[20:36] <+Supreme_Emperor> lol
[20:36] <@Jangeth> pls
[20:36] <@Cal_Jedi> XD
[20:36] <@Darth_Culator> With the proviso that we will reinstate the OFW if the CUSWE returns.
[20:36] <@Jangeth> grammer
[20:36] <+Cade_> Alright
[20:36] <@Cal_Jedi> per Culator.
[20:36] <@GreenTentacle> Per Culator.
[20:36] <@Cal_Jedi> prevent it from having to go through the OFW process again, and I'd support.
[20:36] <@CC7567> If there are no other concerns, let us vote
[20:36] <@Cal_Jedi> One more ting:
[20:36] <@Cal_Jedi> thing*
[20:37] * +Cade (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[20:37] <@Cal_Jedi> just to clarify, this is going to remove the official friendship and delete the template and its usage. however, there will be a provision where if CUSWE returns, it will not have to go through the OFW process again, but be automatically an official friend again.
[20:37] <@Cal_Jedi> That is the entire proposal, correct?
[20:37] <+Cade_> Yes
[20:37] <@Toprawa> That's how I understand it
[20:37] <@CC7567> Yes
[20:38] <@CC7567> We are now voting to remove the CUSWE from our Official Friends list, with the proviso that it be reinstated if it comes back online, and to also depreciate the {{CUSWEID}} template unless likewise occurs
[20:38] <@Cal_Jedi> ok. Thanks.
[20:38] <@Darth_Culator> Si.
[20:38] <@CC7567> ~open
[20:38] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Voting is open.
[20:38] <@CC7567> ~support
[20:38] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support vote counted.
[20:38] <+Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[20:38] <@Cal_Jedi> ~support
[20:38] <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[20:38] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[20:38] <@Toprawa> ~support
[20:38] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[20:38] <+trip391> ~support
[20:38] <@GreenTentacle> ~support
[20:38] <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted.
[20:38] <@PurpleTentacle> trip391: Support vote counted.
[20:38] <+Cade_> ~support
[20:38] <@PurpleTentacle> Cade_: Support vote counted.
[20:38] <+Ayrehead02> ~support
[20:38] <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted.
[20:38] <@Darth_Culator> ~support
[20:38] <@PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[20:38] <+exiledjedi> ~support
[20:38] <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[20:38] <+MasterFred> ~support
[20:38] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[20:38] <@Jangeth> So who wants to remove the template in the articles?
[20:38] <@CC7567> Figure that out later :P
[20:38] <@CC7567> I am closing voting
[20:38] <@CC7567> ~close
[20:38] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Voting is closed.
[20:38] <@CC7567> ~tally
[20:38] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support: 11
[20:38] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv arioch Ayrehead02 Cade_ Cade|Elsewhere
[20:38] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv DeusFigendi exiledjedi Jaymach Karo|away
[20:39] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv MasterFred N7 Pichu Supreme_Emperor
[20:39] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv Tm_T tomtiger11 trip391 Tyber
[20:39] <@CC7567> Cade, your next item of business if you please
[20:39] * Toprawa sets mode: +v Cade_
[20:39] <+Cade_> Anons and sock puppets.
[20:39] <@CC7567> Note: once Cade is done, we will continue with all other items in the order on the Mofference page
[20:40] <+Cade_> Cav and I have had a string of encounters with an anon who has been bouncing IPs like crazy after being banned for fanon. To me, this is sock puppetry, and I believe WP:SOCK should be updated accordingly.
[20:41] <+Cade_> If an anon has been banned, but it is clear that they have migrated IPs, I think the second iP should also be banned.
[20:41] <+Cade_> That's it.
[20:41] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv arioch Ayrehead02 Cade|Elsewhere DeusFigendi
[20:41] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv exiledjedi Jaymach Karo|away MasterFred
[20:41] <@CC7567> Ok, discussion open
[20:41] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv N7 Pichu Supreme_Emperor Tm_T
[20:41] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvv tomtiger11 trip391 Tyber
[20:41] <@CC7567> What would we change to the original policy, Cade?
[20:41] <@Toprawa> No objections, though note that we (admins) have always done this.
[20:41] <@Cal_Jedi> per Tope
[20:41] <@Toprawa> We ban anything associated with confirmed offenders
[20:41] <@Cal_Jedi> I don't understand really the purpose of this. Did you want to put this in writing specifically?
[20:42] <+Cade_> I don't have any specific wording, as I'm mobile right now, but yes I think it should be in the policy
[20:42] <@CC7567> I would prefer to see the text of what I'm voting on before I vote on it
[20:42] <@Cal_Jedi> Per CC.
[20:42] <@Cal_Jedi> I agree with this.
[20:42] <@Cal_Jedi> As we have always done it, as Tope pointed out.
[20:42] <+trip391> Like, they get banned, do the same exact thing on a new IP, and automatically get banned. No warning. Correct?
[20:42] <@Cal_Jedi> But I want to be sure of what the full thing says and where it gets put, etc.
[20:42] <+Cade_> Then maybe a CT, after I come up with an actual text. Sorry, I would have gotten it in words if I was home.
[20:42] <@Toprawa> trip> Yes
[20:42] <@CC7567> We can vote on the general idea here at the Mofference, then, and then a specific amendment to the Blocking policy will need to go through a CT
[20:43] <+Cade_> Trip: Precisely. That year guy, for instance.
[20:43] <+Supreme_Emperor> this sounds reasonable
[20:43] <@Toprawa> I'm not sure we really need this
[20:43] <@Jangeth> Well if their other IP is banend and they evade that ban by switching IPs. :P
[20:43] <@Cal_Jedi> Per Tope
[20:43] <@Jangeth> @trip
[20:43] <@Nuku-Nuku> Jangeth: Error: "trip" is not a valid command.
[20:43] <@Toprawa> I guess it's good to clarify, but we aren't restricted from this
[20:43] <@Toprawa> A lack of wording doesn't imply we're breaking a rule
[20:43] <@CC7567> actually, per Toprawa
[20:43] <+Supreme_Emperor> whatever gets rid of that fanoneering anon faster :P
[20:43] <+MasterFred> It does give something you can throw at them if they complain, though.
[20:44] <+Cade_> That's true, Tope, but per Fred
[20:44] <+Cade_> That's why I thought of it
[20:44] <+Cade_> Less loopholes
[20:44] <@Toprawa> Then all we need is to add something to WP:SOCK clarifying this applies to usernames and anonymous IPs
[20:44] <+MasterFred> Always nice to have extra stone at a stoning.
[20:44] <@CC7567> The general consensus seems to be in favor of the idea
[20:44] <@CC7567> Let's abstain actually voting on it for now until the specific proposal is written
[20:44] <+Cade_> Tope: exActly.
[20:44] <@Cal_Jedi> Yeah, TBH, it kind of seems like overkill. It would appear to be common sense to block the person, since they're the same.
[20:44] <@Toprawa> In which case, I can support without seeing actual wording
[20:44] <@Toprawa> This is really very basic
[20:45] <+MasterFred> Yeah
[20:45] <@Toprawa> I'm opening up WP:S
[20:45] <+MasterFred> I don't need wording
[20:45] <@Toprawa> Maybe I can write something really quick
[20:45] <@Toprawa> Give me like a minute
[20:45] <@Toprawa> WP:SOCK*
[20:45] <@CC7567> Ok, we shall wait for Toprawa
[20:45] <@Cal_Jedi> Brief recess at the call of the Chair. :p
[20:45] <@CC7567> :P
[20:45] <+MasterFred> lol
[20:45] <@Jangeth> yeah, our current sock policy should mention anon IPs
[20:45] <@CC7567> That does not mean we open up off-topic discussion :P
[20:45] <@Cal_Jedi> <State Senate talk> :P
[20:45] <@CC7567> There is still a Mofference going on :P
[20:45] <+Supreme_Emperor> :(
[20:45] <+MasterFred> ugh
[20:45] <@Cal_Jedi> De-voice ALL the users :P
[20:46] <@Jangeth> > #wookieepedia-social
[20:46] <@CC7567> Thank you Jang
[20:46] <@Toprawa> Well, it's a pretty long page...but this is the first sentence, for example
[20:46] * MasterJonathan (~Miranda@wikia/MasterJonathan) has joined #wookieepedia
[20:46] * ChanServ sets mode: +o MasterJonathan
[20:46] <@Jangeth> 8)
[20:46] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +o MasterJonathan
[20:46] <+MasterFred> Imma go get some rolls to eat. Be back in just a few seconds.
[20:46] <@Ralltiir> "Sockpuppets are alternate usernames created by a registered user."
[20:47] <@Toprawa> We just need to go through and identify every place where it says just usernames and add in "and anonymous IPs" or something
[20:47] <+Cade_> K
[20:47] <+Supreme_Emperor> so maybe something like "In the event it is apparent that the anon is the same person who was blocked"
[20:48] <+Cade_> CT then or something
[20:48] <@Toprawa> It might actually be better to take this to a CT to finalize a complete page presentation
[20:48] <@CC7567> Yeah, let's send this to CT
[20:48] <@Cal_Jedi> Indeed.
[20:48] <@CC7567> The Mofference needs to keep moving
[20:48] <@CC7567> Okay, discussion is closed for now
[20:48] <+MasterFred> onward!
[20:48] <@CC7567> Cade, your next item please
[20:48] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv arioch Ayrehead02 Cade_ Cade|Elsewhere
[20:48] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv DeusFigendi exiledjedi Jaymach Karo|away
[20:48] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv MasterFred N7 Pichu Supreme_Emperor
[20:48] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv Tm_T tomtiger11 trip391 Tyber
[20:49] <@CC7567> Cade_
[20:49] * Toprawa sets mode: +v Cade_
[20:49] <@Toprawa> sorry :P
[20:49] <@CC7567> Hahaha sorry :P
[20:49] <@Cal_Jedi> XD
[20:50] <+Cade_> Category:Individuals of Unidentified species. This should really be split.
[20:50] <+Cade_> There are two reasons a page in this. There are articles for which Dantescifi can make an Unidentified species page, and then those that have no info at all.
[20:51] <+Cade_> I propose splitting off these second articles into Category:Individuals of unspecified species or something similar.
[20:51] <+Cade_> That's it.
[20:51] <@CC7567> Discussion time
[20:51] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv arioch Ayrehead02 Cade|Elsewhere DeusFigendi
[20:51] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv exiledjedi Jaymach Karo|away MasterFred
[20:51] <@Cal_Jedi> Um.
[20:51] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv N7 Pichu Supreme_Emperor Tm_T
[20:51] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvv tomtiger11 trip391 Tyber
[20:51] <@CC7567> If I understand this correctly
[20:51] <@Toprawa> Honestly, I'd be ok with just deleting these two categories altogether
[20:51] <@Toprawa> I never liked them
[20:51] <@CC7567> Actually, I don't understand this :P
[20:51] <@MasterJonathan> Per Tope.
[20:52] <+Cade_> !wiki Harvus
[20:52] * CorellianPremier ([REDACTED]@gateway/web/qwebirc/irc.wikia.com/ip.[REDACTED]) has joined #wookieepedia
[20:52] <@Nuku-Nuku> Cade_: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Harvus
[20:52] <+MasterFred> per CC for me
[20:52] <@Toprawa> Hey, CP
[20:52] <+trip391> Per Tope,
[20:52] <@Cal_Jedi> Per CC and partially per Tope :P
[20:52] <+Cade_> This guy is an example if the second category.
[20:52] <+Supreme_Emperor> so more or less one category for individuals with no species information available, and one for those that have no information added/no identified species
[20:52] <@Toprawa> CP, if you need help on the procedure here, PM me or talk to me in WP:VG
[20:52] <@Toprawa> I can help you out
[20:52] <@CC7567> I'm still not seeing the difference between the two
[20:52] <+Cade_> No species /name/ for the first one, Sup
[20:52] <@CC7567> It's basically the same thing in my book
[20:52] * Darth_Culator sets mode: +v CorellianPremier
[20:53] <+Cade_> There are characters that appear in comics but don't get species named
[20:53] <+MasterFred> gotcha
[20:53] <+trip391> Or Yoda
[20:53] <+Cade_> And there are characters about whose species we know nothing.
[20:53] <+Cade_> Trip: essentially, yes
[20:54] <+Ayrehead02> I think I understand so one is for characters who haven't been identified as any species
[20:54] <+Cade_> Random mentions in the Codex or sourcebooks are in the second category.
[20:54] <+exiledjedi> Makes sense to me
[20:54] <+Supreme_Emperor> sounds good
[20:54] <@CC7567> I'm still not understanding this
[20:54] <+Ayrehead02> and one is for characters who are shown as a specific species which hasn't been named, like Yoda
[20:54] <@Jangeth> ^
[20:54] <@CC7567> Could someone break it down more simply for me?
[20:54] <@Jangeth> @ CC
[20:54] <@Nuku-Nuku> Jangeth: Error: "CC" is not a valid command.
[20:55] <@CC7567> Ok, I think I understand
[20:55] <+Cade_> Dantescifi's contribs are in the first category, CC
[20:55] <@CC7567> I just don't get /why/ we need to split the category into two
[20:55] <@Toprawa> I don't know why we need the category to begin with :P
[20:55] <@CC7567> If the species is unidentified, unnamed, unknown, then it should go into one category, if at all
[20:55] <+MasterFred> Because they aren't the same type of article.
[20:55] <@Toprawa> It just seems like categorizing trivia
[20:55] <+Ayrehead02> I suppose it would make it easier for authors to find species which need naming
[20:55] <+MasterFred> Well, per Tope. :P
[20:55] <@CC7567> For me, it's either we known the species or we don't
[20:55] <+Cade_> Because characters like Harvus aren't of Unidentified species, their species just hasn't been named.
[20:55] <+Ayrehead02> especially since many don't get there own species articles
[20:55] <@Jangeth> Is this about Dantescifi or about the categories? I don't want to go off topic, but we can tell him to stop (if we plan on removing those categories)
[20:56] <+Cade_> Bah, I mean that their species hasn't any info or appearance.
[20:56] <+Cade_> I prefer keeping the categories.
[20:56] <@Toprawa> We would need to TC them anyway
[20:56] <+Supreme_Emperor> this would basically help organize the category somewhat
[20:57] <@Cal_Jedi> I can see some merit in keeping the Unidentified species category, since it helps categorize the articles who have no known species. However, I'm not understanding why they need to be split. So, basically per CC. :P
[20:57] <+Cade_> I've only got a few minutes left, so I can CT this and explain further of necessary.
[20:57] <@CC7567> Yes, I think that would be good, Cade
[20:57] <+Supreme_Emperor> thats probably the best choice
[20:57] <+Cade_> Alright.
[20:57] <@CC7567> The discussion looks too complicated for the Mofference
[20:57] <@MasterJonathan> Yes, let's do that.
[20:58] <@CC7567> Not complicated, but too heavy
[20:58] <@CC7567> Thank you, Cade
[20:58] <@CC7567> Moving on to the next item
[20:58] <+MasterFred> I have company over, so I need to get off asap. :P
[20:58] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv arioch Ayrehead02 Cade_ Cade|Elsewhere
[20:58] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv CorellianPremier DeusFigendi exiledjedi Jaymach
[20:58] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv Karo|away MasterFred N7 Pichu
[20:58] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv Supreme_Emperor Tm_T tomtiger11 trip391
[20:58] * Toprawa sets mode: -v Tyber
[20:58] <@CC7567> Toprawa, you have the floor
[20:58] <@CC7567> For your WP:SIV amendment?
[20:58] <@CC7567> Did we already cover that?
[20:58] <@Toprawa> No, the rank capitalization
[20:58] <@Cal_Jedi> I believe we're on the Rank and Title amendment.
[20:58] <@Toprawa> I typed it out there so I wouldn't have to in this channel
[20:58] <@CC7567> Okay, take it away
[20:59] <@Toprawa> Please everyone open up WP:M and see item 3.
[20:59] <@CC7567> Read http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:MOFF#Agenda
[20:59] <@Toprawa> I'll give everyone a minute or two to read that
[20:59] <@Toprawa> Basically, I believe we should be doing what everyone else in the real world does.
[20:59] <@Toprawa> And I'm done.
[20:59] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv arioch Ayrehead02 Cade_ Cade|Elsewhere
[20:59] <@CC7567> Let's open the floor to discussion
[20:59] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv CorellianPremier DeusFigendi exiledjedi Jaymach
[20:59] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv Karo|away MasterFred N7 Pichu
[20:59] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv Supreme_Emperor Tm_T tomtiger11 trip391
[20:59] * Toprawa sets mode: +v Tyber
[20:59] <+MasterFred> Pretty much, let's follow common American grammar rules, right?
[21:00] <@Toprawa> And British
[21:00] <@Darth_Culator> Grammar? Rules? Real world? What are all these foreign terms?
[21:00] <@Toprawa> GT says that's how they do it over there, too
[21:00] <@MasterJonathan> I've always thought this was stupid. Let's fix it.
[21:00] <@GreenTentacle> It is.
[21:00] <@Cal_Jedi> Makes a lot of sense.
[21:00] <@CC7567> General consensus seems to be to vote, so I'll give twenty seconds for people who are still reading or who still have concerns to say something
[21:01] <@Darth_Culator> I reject your reality and substitute none whatsoever!
[21:01] <@CC7567> Ok, vote time
[21:01] <@CC7567> ~open
[21:01] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Voting is open.
[21:01] <+trip391> ~support
[21:01] <@PurpleTentacle> trip391: Support vote counted.
[21:01] <@CC7567> ~support
[21:01] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support vote counted.
[21:01] <+Ayrehead02> ~support
[21:01] <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted.
[21:01] <@Darth_Culator> ~support
[21:01] <@PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[21:01] <@MasterJonathan> ~support
[21:01] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[21:01] <@GreenTentacle> ~support
[21:01] <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted.
[21:01] <@Toprawa> ~support
[21:01] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[21:01] <+exiledjedi> ~support
[21:01] <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[21:01] <@Cal_Jedi> ~support
[21:01] <+CorellianPremier> ~support
[21:01] <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[21:01] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[21:01] <+MasterFred> ~support
[21:01] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[21:01] <@Jangeth> ~support
[21:01] <@PurpleTentacle> Jangeth: Support vote counted.
[21:01] * Cade (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn) has joined #wookieepedia
[21:01] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +v Cade
[21:01] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Cade
[21:01] <@Jangeth> Sorry, was reading
[21:01] <@CC7567> Voting will be closed momentarily, so vote if you haven't already
[21:02] <+Cade> ~support
[21:02] <@PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[21:02] <@CC7567> Alright, I'm closing voting
[21:02] <@CC7567> ~close
[21:02] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Voting is closed.
[21:02] <@CC7567> ~tally
[21:02] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support: 13
[21:02] <@CC7567> Moving on to my item
[21:02] <@Cal_Jedi> hang on a sec. :P
[21:02] <@GreenTentacle> By the way, vice admiral is lower case in EGW.
[21:02] <@Cal_Jedi> Tope has a second item.
[21:02] <@Darth_Culator> Wait, didn't Tope have a thing?
[21:02] <@Ralltiir> CC
[21:02] <@Darth_Culator> But is this different from Jang's?
[21:02] <@Ralltiir> You're not reading the list right :P
[21:03] <@CC7567> The WP:SIV thing?
[21:03] <+Supreme_Emperor> crap :P had to feed a cat
[21:03] <@CC7567> Whoops, sorry :P
[21:03] <@Ralltiir> Yes
[21:03] <@Darth_Culator> Or Cal's, sorry.
[21:03] <@CC7567> Toprawa, go ahead
[21:03] <+Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[21:03] <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: There is no open vote on this channel.
[21:03] <@Cal_Jedi> yes, it is, Culator.
[21:03] <+Supreme_Emperor> damn i missed it
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[21:03] <@Ralltiir> Ok
[21:04] <@MasterJonathan> A bit redundant?
[21:04] <@Toprawa> Ok.
[21:04] <@Toprawa> Sorry, having some issues
[21:04] <@Toprawa> Ready now
[21:04] <@Toprawa> There's a loophole in our WP:SIV policy that needs to be closed.
[21:04] <@Toprawa> Our policy states that a user must make 50 valid edits to be able to vote on a forum
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[21:05] <@Toprawa> But that leaves the door open for any troll to run off and make 50 quick edits and then come back and say "Ok, I'm eligible. Count my vote."
[21:06] <@Toprawa> Often times, these are people who are only interested in whatever specific topic is being discussed, want to vote, and then disappear from the wiki forever
[21:06] <@Toprawa> Is that not the definition of a single-issue voter?
[21:06] <@Toprawa> I propose we add the following to WP:SIV:
[21:06] <@Toprawa> Note that there are two parts to this, so bear with me
[21:06] <@Toprawa> The first:
[21:07] <@Toprawa> "In addition, any user must have contributed at least 50 valid main namespace edits by the start of a given forum in order to be eligible to vote on the following: Forum:Consensus track, Wookieepedia:Mofference, Wookieepedia:Trash compactor, Wookieepedia:Official Friends of Wookieepedia/Nominations, Wookieepedia:Requests for user rights, and talk page consensus votes."
[21:07] <@Toprawa> There should be a period of time after which this expires to allow good-intentioned people to contribute on lengthy forums, like the CT to tell Wikia to leave the talk pages alone
[21:07] <@Toprawa> The second part:
[21:07] <@Toprawa> "A user who makes 50 valid main namespace edits after the start of a given forum may be eligible to vote on that forum if the forum lasts longer than a period of one month."
[21:08] <@Toprawa> That should be plenty of time to weed out the single-issue trolls.
[21:08] <@Toprawa> That's all I have.
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[21:08] <@CC7567> Sounds good to me
[21:08] <+MasterFred> I'm good as is.
[21:08] <@Cal_Jedi> This is terrific. This was something else I wanted to do, but I didn't want to overload the schedule with my stuff. Good work, Tope. I fully support.
[21:08] <+Supreme_Emperor> nice
[21:08] <+exiledjedi> Good idea
[21:08] <@CC7567> Any concerns or questions, you have ten seconds to say something
[21:09] <@Darth_Culator> HOORJ
[21:09] <@MasterJonathan> Go for it.
[21:09] <@CC7567> Kay, let's vote
[21:09] <@CC7567> What the hell is a HOORJ?
[21:09] <@CC7567> Never mind, forget I asked :P
[21:09] <@MasterJonathan> Yeah
[21:09] <@Darth_Culator> Just vote. :P
[21:09] <@CC7567> ~open
[21:09] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Voting is open.
[21:09] <+Ayrehead02> ~support
[21:09] <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted.
[21:09] <+trip391> ~support
[21:09] <@PurpleTentacle> trip391: Support vote counted.
[21:09] <@CC7567> ~support
[21:09] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support vote counted.
[21:09] <+Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[21:09] <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[21:09] <@MasterJonathan> ~support
[21:09] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[21:09] <@Darth_Culator> ~support
[21:09] <@PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[21:09] <@GreenTentacle> ~support
[21:09] <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted.
[21:09] <@Toprawa> ~support
[21:09] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[21:09] <+exiledjedi> ~support
[21:09] <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[21:09] <@Cal_Jedi> ~support
[21:09] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[21:09] <+MasterFred> ~support
[21:09] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[21:09] <@Jangeth> ~support
[21:09] <+CorellianPremier> ~support
[21:09] <@PurpleTentacle> Jangeth: Support vote counted.
[21:09] <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[21:09] <@CC7567> I am closing voting
[21:09] <@CC7567> ~close
[21:09] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Voting is closed.
[21:09] <@CC7567> ~tally
[21:09] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support: 13
[21:10] <@CC7567> Okay, my item is next
[21:10] <@Jangeth> Lucky number :3
[21:10] <@CC7567> Sorry about that Tope :P
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[21:10] <@Toprawa> No prob :P
[21:10] <@CC7567> Here's my bit
[21:10] <@CC7567> If you read http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Manual_of_Style#Class_and_ship_names, you will note that ship class names are allowed to be unitalicized when there is no "-class," e.g. "Venator Star Destroyer" (all unitalicized)
[21:10] <@CC7567> In my opinion, even though it's technically correct, this creates some room for misinterpretation of a ship class name as fanon, e.g. "Venator" instead of "Venator-class"
[21:10] <@CC7567> E.g. "Venator" instead of "/Venator/ -class"
[21:10] <@CC7567> " /Venator/ -class"
[21:10] <@CC7567> I'm proposing that we add a short, unbulleted sentence to this section of the Layout Guide, under the point "Most models of the Broadside…"
[21:10] <@CC7567> The sentence: "However, using unitalicized ship class names without the "-class" is generally discouraged, as it can be misinterpreted as [[fanon]].
[21:11] <@CC7567> As I understand it, this is generally what we do now; it would just need to be codified in policy
[21:11] <@CC7567> Okay, let's discuss
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[21:11] <@Cal_Jedi> Sounds good.
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[21:11] <@Toprawa> I have some things to say:
[21:11] <+Supreme_Emperor> i like
[21:11] <@Toprawa> I'm not opposed, but I want to note this:
[21:12] <@CC7567> Sure
[21:12] <@Toprawa> There are SW sources that follow this practice of unitaliciizing
[21:12] <@Toprawa> I checked this once before because I was wondering the same thing as you
[21:12] <@Toprawa> I don't know if there are any real-world practices for this
[21:12] <@CC7567> Yeah, I've come across this too in sources
[21:12] <@Toprawa> But if we want to italicize, I have no problem.
[21:12] <+CorellianPremier> So this is getting away from saying "Imperial Star Destroyer" ...?
[21:12] <@CC7567> I have no idea what RW practices are in this area
[21:12] <@Toprawa> However...
[21:12] <@Toprawa> I want our policy wording to be clear on a single standardization
[21:12] <@CC7567> CP: Imperial is a faction adjective, so that would still be encouraged
[21:12] <@Toprawa> Saying "is generally discouraged" invites lack of uniformity
[21:13] <@Toprawa> I think we need to choose one way and go with it
[21:13] <+MasterFred> I'd say just require it outright or not.
[21:13] <@Toprawa> Yes
[21:13] <@Cal_Jedi> Yeah, per Tope's second point.
[21:13] <@CC7567> Okay
[21:13] <@CC7567> That would mean removing some bullet points on the Layout Guide section
[21:13] <@CC7567> Lemme check
[21:13] <@CC7567> Actually, CP: "Imperial SD" is still fine
[21:13] <@CC7567> Because technically Imperial is both an adjective and the name of the class
[21:14] <@CC7567> But if you want to be specific, you should say "Imperial-class SD"
[21:14] <@CC7567> Does that make sense?
[21:14] <@CC7567> CorellianPremier ?
[21:14] <+CorellianPremier> indeed
[21:14] <@CC7567> Okay
[21:15] <@MasterJonathan> Pick one or the other to be uniform. I don't care which one.
[21:15] <@Toprawa> per MJ
[21:15] <@CC7567> I'm looking at the Layout Guide right now, and it would take a bit of tinkering to be able to require one way over the other
[21:15] <@Toprawa> Does it not require not italicizing right now?
[21:15] <@CC7567> Whoa, double negative :P
[21:16] <+Supreme_Emperor> :P
[21:16] <@MasterJonathan> Yes, it does.
[21:16] <@Toprawa> well, "unitalicizing" is apparently not a word :P
[21:16] <@Cal_Jedi> bah :P
[21:16] <@CC7567> It allows for us to say "Venator-class SD" (italicized) as well as "Venator SD" (unitalicized)
[21:16] <@Toprawa> At the very least, we're standardized right now
[21:16] <@Toprawa> That's still standardized for whichever way you choose
[21:16] <@Toprawa> If that makes sense
[21:16] <@CC7567> Do you mean that the policy is fine as it is right now?
[21:17] <@CC7567> Or should that be changed?
[21:17] <@MasterJonathan> Then leave it alone. That way we don't have to change everything over across the whole wiki.
[21:17] <@Toprawa> I'm ok if you want to make it to italicize in all instances
[21:17] <@Toprawa> But I just want us to be consistent
[21:17] <@Toprawa> Right now, we have consistency
[21:17] <@Toprawa> Your proposed wording is actually making it less consistent
[21:17] <@CC7567> Yeah, I see what you're saying
[21:17] <@CC7567> I would say that we should italicize in all instances, for formality
[21:18] <@Toprawa> I'm cool with that
[21:18] <@CC7567> But I'll come up with a CT so that the Mofference doesn't have to wait for me to type things out :P
[21:18] <@MasterJonathan> whew :P
[21:18] <@CC7567> Okay, one more item on the list
[21:18] <@CC7567> Ayrehead has the floor
[21:18] <+Ayrehead02> Ok Thanks CC
[21:18] <+Ayrehead02> Hopefully this should be pretty quick to resolve
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[21:19] <@Toprawa> thanks
[21:19] <@CC7567> Ayre, go ahead
[21:19] <+Ayrehead02> Thanks
[21:20] <+Ayrehead02> Over several nominations of plants recently there's been some conflict as to if the fact that they are a non-sentient species needs to be included in the article body or not
[21:21] <+Ayrehead02> several users state that saying the species is a vegetable is enough to imply non-sentience while others, myself included, feel that it should be included in the article especially since it's in the info box
[21:22] <+Ayrehead02> We don't seem to have any policy on this and looking back through past status articles of plants there didn't seem to be a consistent rule applied
[21:22] <+Ayrehead02> I propose we create a consistent rule as to one way or the other and add it to the manual of style, although I'm not entirely sure if this is the correct place
[21:23] <@Toprawa> (Let us know when you're finished)
[21:23] <+Ayrehead02> that's my lot hopefully I wasn't too unclear
[21:23] <@CC7567> Ok, let's discuss
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[21:23] <@MasterJonathan> One question: Are there any examples of sentient plants in the Star Wars universe?
[21:23] <+Supreme_Emperor> definately a good idea
[21:23] <@CC7567> I believe this might already be covered in the Layout Guide
[21:23] <+MasterFred> No infobox-exclusive info.
[21:23] <@CC7567> Because we already require all infobox information to be detailed in the article
[21:23] <@Toprawa> Either way, I think it's a mistake to assume that all vegetables are automatically non-sentient
[21:23] <+CorellianPremier> !Wiki unidentified walking plant species
[21:23] <@Nuku-Nuku> CorellianPremier: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/unidentified_walking_plant_species
[21:23] <@Toprawa> This is SW, after all :P
[21:24] <+exiledjedi> Neti
[21:24] <@MasterJonathan> !wiki Neti
[21:24] <@Nuku-Nuku> MasterJonathan: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Neti
[21:24] <+MasterFred> But being a vegetable is not enough prrof.
[21:24] <+MasterFred> So, I think articles should state whether plants are sentient or not.
[21:24] <+MasterFred> In the prose, not just the infobox.
[21:25] <+Ayrehead02> Yup that was my view.
[21:25] <@MasterJonathan> Since we have sentient plants, then we need to specify sentient or non-sentient every time as they can't be assumed to be non-sentient.
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[21:25] <@Toprawa> Yes
[21:25] <+Supreme_Emperor> agreed
[21:25] <@Toprawa> This is very basic
[21:25] <@Toprawa> It surprises me we even need to vote on this, but it doesn't hurt to clarify, I guess
[21:26] <@CC7567> What would the proposed addition to the Manual of Style be? Because I'm not seeing where this is different from infobox-exlusive info, which is already covered in the Layout Guide
[21:26] <@CC7567> *exclusive
[21:26] <+exiledjedi> When can we ever assume that a plant is non-sentient?
[21:26] <@Toprawa> We don't necessarily need to add this to the MOS
[21:26] <@MasterJonathan> per Tope
[21:26] <@Toprawa> I'm not sure it's really that critical enough for inclusion
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[21:26] <+MasterFred> But this discussion clears up any disagreement on objections.
[21:26] <@Toprawa> Yes
[21:27] <+Ayrehead02> Ok I wasn't sure to be honest and during the conflicting objections no one seemed to know what rules effected it
[21:27] <@CC7567> We would vote just to clarify, you mean?
[21:27] <@Toprawa> Voting on it for that sake is beneficial
[21:27] <@MasterJonathan> I say vote on it and let it sit in the log and minutes for reference.
[21:27] <@CC7567> Okay, that sounds fine
[21:27] <@Toprawa> per MJ
[21:27] <+Supreme_Emperor> sounds good
[21:27] <@Cal_Jedi> Yeah.
[21:27] <+CorellianPremier> sure
[21:27] <+Ayrehead02> but if it's already covered then I just wanted to clarify
[21:27] <@CC7567> Any other concerns have 10 seconds to be made clear
[21:27] <+MasterFred> You're good, Ayre.
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[21:27] <+exiledjedi> Should we assume that eatable plants are non-sentient?
[21:27] <@MasterJonathan> No
[21:27] <@Cal_Jedi> cannibalism. :P
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[21:27] <+MasterFred> No assuming.
[21:27] <@Toprawa> No
[21:27] <@Toprawa> Assume nothing :P
[21:27] <+MasterFred> NEVAH!
[21:28] <@Toprawa> Trust no one :P
[21:28] <@Darth_Culator> People are technically edible.
[21:28] <@Cal_Jedi> this is SW :P
[21:28] <+Supreme_Emperor> per all above :P
[21:28] <+MasterFred> ^^^
[21:28] <+MasterFred> I hear people are even tasty.
[21:28] <@MasterJonathan> When you assume you make an ass out of u and me.
[21:28] <+exiledjedi> heh
[21:28] <@CC7567> Okay, we are voting to specify if plants are sentient or non-sentient, since they cannot be assumed to be the latter
[21:28] <@CC7567> ~open
[21:28] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Voting is open.
[21:28] <@MasterJonathan> ~support
[21:28] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[21:28] <@CC7567> ~support
[21:28] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support vote counted.
[21:28] <+Ayrehead02> ~support
[21:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted.
[21:28] <+Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[21:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[21:28] <@Toprawa> ~support
[21:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[21:28] <+exiledjedi> ~support
[21:28] <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[21:28] <@Cal_Jedi> ~support
[21:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[21:28] <+CorellianPremier> ~support
[21:28] <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[21:28] <+MasterFred> ~support
[21:28] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[21:28] <+trip391> ~support
[21:28] <@PurpleTentacle> trip391: Support vote counted.
[21:28] <@Darth_Culator> ~support
[21:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[21:29] <@CC7567> ~close
[21:29] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Voting is closed.
[21:29] <@CC7567> ~tally
[21:29] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support: 11
[21:29] <@CC7567> We have one final item on the agenda
[21:29] <@CC7567> Toprawa, you have the floor
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[21:29] <@Toprawa> Ok, thanks
[21:30] <@Toprawa> I am proposing a long-awaited addition to the Layout Guide for a droid character articles.
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[21:30] <@Toprawa> Although we have no formal policy, we have a longstanding precedent
[21:30] <@Toprawa> And note that this is for droid /character/ articles.
[21:30] <@Toprawa> Like C-3PO
[21:30] <@Toprawa> Not droid models
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[21:31] <@Toprawa> Our precedent is to use the same as regular character articles except substituting "Characteristics" for "Personality and traits," to distinguish between the lack of naturalism or whatever you want to call it
[21:31] <@Toprawa> Some numbers to demonstrate the precedent:
[21:32] <@Toprawa> Of the 28 relevant droid character FAs that we currently have, 24 use the "Characteristics" style.
[21:32] <@Toprawa> That's 86%
[21:32] <@Toprawa> Of the 41 GAs, 35 use "Characteristics"
[21:32] <@Toprawa> That's 85%
[21:32] <@Toprawa> 59 of 69 in total, for 85.5%
[21:32] <@Toprawa> Of the ones that don't use it, most were written by the same person 3+ years ago
[21:33] <@Toprawa> Here is my proposed mockup to add to the LG under the Character articles layout.
[21:33] <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Tables
[21:33] <@Toprawa> Discuss. :P
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[21:33] <@CC7567> Sounds fine to me
[21:33] <@CC7567> "Characteristics" is a general enough name that can be further subsectioned as necessary
[21:33] <+Supreme_Emperor> sounds good
[21:34] <+exiledjedi> Sounds good
[21:34] <@Cal_Jedi> Like it.
[21:34] <@Darth_Culator> +1
[21:34] <+trip391> sounds good
[21:34] <+Ayrehead02> That's what I've been using
[21:34] <@CC7567> If you have any questions or concerns, you have twenty seconds to raise them
[21:34] <@MasterJonathan> Is there a reason no analog to the P&A/S&A is listed in the proposal?
[21:34] <@CC7567> "Characteristics" covers all of them, if I understand it correctly
[21:35] <@Toprawa> Yeah, and P&A is really just for Force users
[21:35] <@Toprawa> Are there any droid Force users, besides Skippy?
[21:35] <@MasterJonathan> But we have Skills and abilities for non-Force users
[21:35] <@Toprawa> That's really covered under Characteristics, anyway
[21:35] <@Toprawa> For programming, basically
[21:35] <+CorellianPremier> "middle ground between lengthy and succint"--is that common wording for LG tables?
[21:35] <@MasterJonathan> OK
[21:35] <@Toprawa> CP: That's taken straight from the Character articles layout
[21:35] <@Toprawa> So, yes
[21:36] <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:LG#Character_articles
[21:36] <+CorellianPremier> okay sure
[21:36] <@CC7567> Any other questions/concerns? You have ten seconds
[21:36] <@CC7567> Okay, voting time
[21:36] <@CC7567> ~open
[21:36] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Voting is open.
[21:37] <@MasterJonathan> ~support
[21:37] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[21:37] <@CC7567> ~support
[21:37] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support vote counted.
[21:37] <+exiledjedi> ~support
[21:37] <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[21:37] <+trip391> ~support
[21:37] <@PurpleTentacle> trip391: Support vote counted.
[21:37] <@Toprawa> ~support
[21:37] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[21:37] <+Supreme_Emperor> ~support
[21:37] <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted.
[21:37] <@Cal_Jedi> ~support
[21:37] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[21:37] <+CorellianPremier> ~support
[21:37] <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[21:37] <@Darth_Culator> ~support
[21:37] <@PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[21:37] <+MasterFred> ~support
[21:37] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterFred: Support vote counted.
[21:37] <@CC7567> ~close
[21:37] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Voting is closed.
[21:37] <@CC7567> ~tally
[21:37] <@PurpleTentacle> CC7567: Support: 10
[21:37] <+Ayrehead02> ~support
[21:37] <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: There is no open vote on this channel.
[21:37] <+Supreme_Emperor> :P
[21:37] <@CC7567> Sorry Ayre :P
[21:37] <+Ayrehead02> Ah whoops
[21:37] <@CC7567> For the record, can this go under the "Character" section?
[21:37] <@Toprawa> That was the intention, yes
[21:38] <@CC7567> Okay
[21:38] <@CC7567> Then that is all
[21:38] <@CC7567> Thank you for coming to the Mofference, everyone
[21:38] <+MasterFred> Good meeting all.
[21:38] <@Toprawa> Good job hosting, CC
[21:38] <@CC7567> And thank you for not making me de-voice or kick anyone out