Wookieepedia:Mofferences/Log/2012 November 11

[18:55] * Toprawa sets mode: +m
[18:56] <@Toprawa> Ok, if I may have everyone's attention.
[18:56] <@Toprawa> I'm going to explain the meeting procedures for those who weren't here before and those who don't remember.
[18:56] <@Toprawa> We have a nice bot, PurpleTentacle, who will be assisting us, as he did last time.
[18:56] <@Toprawa> These are the commands for the bot. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Xd1358/test
[18:56] <@Toprawa> For the sake of clarification, you will use ~support or ~oppose to record a vote on a topic.
[18:57] * Moff_dogma ([REDACTED]@gateway/web/qwebirc/irc.wikia.com/[REDACTED]) Quit (Changing host)
[18:57] * Moff_dogma ([REDACTED]@wookieepedia/dogma) has joined #wookieepedia
[18:57] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Moff_dogma
[18:57] <@Toprawa> This way we know exactly which way you intend to vote, and then I will tally up the votes.
[18:57] <@Toprawa> As each topic is being presented, everyone will first be muted, as you are now.
[18:57] <@Toprawa> Then when the presenter is finished presenting their topic, we will open the floor for discussion.
[18:57] * MasterJonathan sets mode: -v Moff_dogma
[18:57] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv \x _Kyle_ arioch CommanderShepard
[18:57] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv CorellianPremier DeusFigendi DjangBlue Exiledjedi
[18:57] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv furry Han_shoots_first Hunterj ibenox
[18:57] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv Jaymach Karo|away KOD3N LO|Away
[18:57] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv MathUser2929 Menkooroo Moff_dogma n7
[18:57] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv Raichu salacio Tm_T Tm_Tr
[18:57] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvv Tyber xqo Zervonn
[18:57] <@Toprawa> Any questions?
[18:57] <@Xd1358> And now they'll have to be devoiced in 2 minutes :P
[18:58] <@IFYLOFD> ONE MINUTE
[18:58] <+Menkooroo> Were you on my roof last night, stealing my weathervane?
[18:58] <@CavalierOne> Where do babies come from?
[18:58] <+Karo|away> Kyle Katarn.
[18:58] <@Xd1358> 42
[18:58] <+Tyber> Stop that de/voicing.
[18:58] <@Toprawa> And as with any Mofference, people who are repeatedly off topic will be de-voiced and/or removed.
[18:58] <@Toprawa> So get it all out of your systems now. :P
[18:58] <@CavalierOne> Awwwww
[18:58] <+CorellianPremier> Just one question, Tope. Where's the cake and punch?
[18:58] <+Menkooroo> Good thing we're doing Disney last then
[18:58] <@IFYLOFD> If Train A leaves Denver traveling 60 mph, and Train B leaves San Antonio 45 minutes later traveling 75 mph, which train gets to New York first?
[18:58] <@Toprawa> Patience, young Padawan. :P
[18:58] <+Tyber> The cake is a lie.
[18:58] <@MasterJonathan> Why does water that has "trickled through the mountains for centuries" have a "use by" date?
[18:58] <@Toprawa> Ok, it's 6:00.
[18:58] <@Xd1358> Anyone who is not eligible for voting as per WP:SIV will not be able to speak during the Mofference.
[18:58] <@Cal_Jedi> IT'S THE HOUR
[18:59] <@Toprawa> We're starting.
[18:59] * +Karo|away is only here to see what gets decided about potential Disneystruction.
[18:59] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv \x _Kyle_ arioch CommanderShepard
[18:59] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv CorellianPremier DeusFigendi DjangBlue Exiledjedi
[18:59] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv furry Han_shoots_first Hunterj ibenox
[18:59] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv Jaymach Karo|away KOD3N LO|Away
[18:59] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv MathUser2929 Menkooroo Moff_dogma n7
[18:59] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv Raichu salacio Tm_T Tm_Tr
[18:59] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvv Tyber xqo Zervonn
[18:59] <@Toprawa> Welcome to Mofference November 2012.
[18:59] <@Xd1358> I bid thee dark greetings.
[18:59] <@IFYLOFD> DARK GREETINGS!!!
[19:00] * Toprawa changes topic to 'Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://wookieepedia.com - a proud subsidiary of The Walt Disney Company - Site status: All hail our new Disney overlords! - Channel status: TISH ISHT TEH MOFOEFOERFFERENSH. - Quotes: http://qdb.zervonn.net/ - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av8NTy5WkFc'
[19:00] <@Cal_Jedi> Welcome, Dark Greetings!
[19:00] <@Toprawa> Ok, we'll get right into it.
[19:00] <@Toprawa> First up on the agenda is Menkooroo and Fred, though it appears Fred is not here.
[19:00] <@Toprawa> Menkooroo, you have the floor.
[19:00] * Xd1358 sets mode: +v Menkooroo
[19:00] <+Menkooroo> Hey everyone,
[19:00] <+Menkooroo> I'll try to keep this simple.
[19:01] <+Menkooroo> Usually, when we add a new kind of article to the layout guide, it goes into one of those tan-colored boxes
[19:01] <+Menkooroo> !wiki Wookieepedia:Layout Guide
[19:01] <@Nuku-Nuku> Menkooroo: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia%3ALayout_Guide
[19:01] <+Menkooroo> eg "Character articles," "Species articles," etc
[19:01] <+Menkooroo> Fred and I both want to standardize kinds of out-of-universe articles
[19:01] <+Menkooroo> He on musical themes, me on books, comics, video games, etc
[19:02] <+Menkooroo> But, we can't just make a tan-colored box about it and add it to the Layout Guide
[19:02] <+Menkooroo> Because the Layout Guide is for in-universe articles. It says so right at the top of the page.
[19:02] <+Menkooroo> And if we did that, then we would have to include sections like "Behind the scenes" and "Appearances" that aren't appropriate for out-of-universe articles.
[19:03] <+Menkooroo> So, the solution? Make a second layout guide. One for OOU articles.
[19:03] <+Menkooroo> This is what I have drafted: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Menkooroo/C-3PO
[19:03] <+Menkooroo> It's the regular layout guide, with the examples changed to reflect OOU articles
[19:03] <+Menkooroo> "Behind the scenes" and "Appearances" are gone
[19:03] <+Menkooroo> Section 9.3 is gone, I don't think that the non-canon or Tales tags are needed for any out-of-universe article. For example, the "Plot summary" section of Into the Great Unknown doesn't use {{Noncanonstart}} or {{Noncanonend}}, because the "Continuity" section explicitly identifies it as being non-canon.
[19:03] <+Menkooroo> !wiki Into the Great Unknown
[19:03] <@Nuku-Nuku> Menkooroo: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Into_the_Great_Unknown
[19:04] <+Menkooroo> Aaaaaand, finally, "Sources" has been changed to "Bibliography," "External links" has been changed to "Further reading,"
[19:04] <+Menkooroo> Sorry, that probably wasn't simple at all.
[19:04] <+Menkooroo> I'm done. Tell me what you think and ask any questions.
[19:04] * Xd1358 sets mode: -mv Menkooroo
[19:04] <@Toprawa> :P
[19:04] <@Xd1358> Release the hounds.
[19:04] <@Toprawa> We're open for discussion.
[19:04] <@Toprawa> I looked over it last night with Menk and Fred.
[19:04] <Karo|away> Bibliography sounds more academic. Do it.
[19:04] <Menkooroo> Later CTs can add specific types of OOU articles in tan-colored box format.
[19:04] <@Toprawa> I like it.
[19:05] <CorellianPremier> So for OOU articles, say a voice actor, does the bibliography section include the works they appeared in?
[19:05] <Menkooroo> Ah!
[19:05] <@CavalierOne> So this is a proposal to create a second LG in general, and not hammer out the specifics which I would presume would be handled independently in a CT?
[19:05] <Menkooroo> Bibliography is equivalent to a "Sources" section
[19:05] <Menkooroo> Any insider articles, sourcebooks, etc that mention the book/actor/musical theme/whatever
[19:05] <@Cal_Jedi> Indeed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is basically just granting permission for a second LG
[19:05] <Menkooroo> Yeah
[19:05] <@Cal_Jedi> Okay.
[19:05] <@Cal_Jedi> Yeah.
[19:05] <@Cal_Jedi> Sounds good.
[19:05] <Menkooroo> Later CTs can standardize specific types of articles
[19:06] <CorellianPremier> Ah, right
[19:06] <@MasterJonathan> I think this is long overdue.
[19:06] <@Xd1358> Yeah, I don't have anything against it
[19:06] <@IFYLOFD> Why can't we just change the original LG to include in-universe articles
[19:06] <@CavalierOne> Indeed. Standardising OOU articles is a little lax.
[19:06] <@IFYLOFD> *out of universe, excuse me
[19:06] <@Toprawa> Floyd> We could, but it might get complicated showing two different sets of prints, basically
[19:06] <Menkooroo> We could add this to the bottom of the current LG
[19:06] <@Toprawa> I think this is easier just to read it on a separate page.
[19:06] <Menkooroo> Or we could make a new page entirely
[19:06] <@IFYLOFD> Couldn't be that complicated
[19:06] <@Cal_Jedi> One question: Would we move the current LG to something like Wookieepedia:In-Universe Layout Guide?
[19:06] <Karo|away> Disney is the only thing on the agenda I'm interested in. Could someone ping me when we get to that?
[19:07] <Menkooroo> That'll be in like an hour and a half :P
[19:07] <@Toprawa> Karo, that will be at the end. We'll let you know.
[19:07] <Menkooroo> we moved it to the end
[19:07] <Karo|away> Thanks
[19:07] <Exiledjedi> Will the hideable list of appearances stay?
[19:07] <Menkooroo> Cal: Good question. What do people think?
[19:07] <@Xd1358> I think the current LG can stay as is
[19:07] <Menkooroo> The list of appearances? Like in an article on a book?
[19:07] <@Toprawa> Cal and Menk: We could, and we can vote on that as a secondary measure.
[19:07] <@MasterJonathan> EJ: I think that would be part of the tan boxes to be approved later.
[19:07] <Menkooroo> That can be hammered out in a later CT standardizing articles on books
[19:07] <@Xd1358> Have the new one be WP:Layout Guide (out-of-universe) or something
[19:07] <CorellianPremier> I think Cals suggestion is right
[19:08] <Exiledjedi> ok
[19:08] <Menkooroo> WP:OOULG?
[19:08] <@Cal_Jedi> I agree. We can work out the name later.
[19:08] <@Toprawa> Menkooroo> May I clarify as we prepare to vote, that we are voting on ratifying this literal proposal?
[19:08] <Menkooroo> Pronounced "Owwwlg"
[19:08] <@MasterJonathan> WP:LG/OOU?
[19:08] <Menkooroo> Yeah
[19:08] <@IFYLOFD> You will find WP:OOULG at the Castle of Aaaaaaarrrrrgh
[19:08] <@Cal_Jedi> XD
[19:08] <@Toprawa> Ok, let's open up the first vote here: We're voting on whether we like the creation of Menkooroo's proposed OOU LG layout for starters. Secondary votes will follow for page formatting.
[19:09] <@Toprawa> Support or oppose for the OOU LG.
[19:09] <@Toprawa> ~open
[19:09] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[19:09] <Menkooroo> ~support
[19:09] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[19:09] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[19:09] <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[19:09] <@Cal_Jedi> ~support
[19:09] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[19:09] <@Xd1358> ~support
[19:09] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[19:09] <@MasterJonathan> ~support
[19:09] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[19:09] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[19:09] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[19:09] <Hunterj> ~support
[19:09] <@PurpleTentacle> Hunterj: Support vote counted.
[19:09] <Han_shoots_first> ~support
[19:09] <@PurpleTentacle> Han_shoots_first: Support vote counted.
[19:09] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[19:09] <@Toprawa> ~support
[19:09] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[19:09] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[19:09] <Tyber> ~support
[19:09] <@PurpleTentacle> Tyber: Support vote counted.
[19:09] <@IFYLOFD> ~support
[19:09] <@PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[19:09] <@Toprawa> I will usually give about 10 seconds after the last vote looks like it's in to close it for any stragglers.
[19:09] <@Toprawa> ~close
[19:09] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[19:09] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[19:09] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 12, Oppose: 0
[19:09] <@Toprawa> OOU LG passes.
[19:09] <@IFYLOFD> SHUTOUT
[19:09] <@Toprawa> Ok, second item regarding this.
[19:09] <Menkooroo> Hooray!
[19:10] <@Toprawa> Do we want to put it on a separate page like it is now, or all on one LG page. Vote SUPPORT for separate page. OPPOSE for one page.
[19:10] <@Toprawa> ~open
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[19:10] <@MasterJonathan> ~support
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[19:10] <@Toprawa> ~support
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[19:10] <@Xd1358> ~support
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[19:10] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[19:10] <Hunterj> ~support
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> Hunterj: Support vote counted.
[19:10] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[19:10] <Menkooroo> ~support
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[19:10] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[19:10] <@IFYLOFD> ~oppose
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Oppose vote counted.
[19:10] <Han_shoots_first> ~support
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> Han_shoots_first: Support vote counted.
[19:10] <@Cal_Jedi> !support
[19:10] <@Nuku-Nuku> Cal_Jedi: Error: "support" is not a valid command.
[19:10] <@Cal_Jedi> ~support
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[19:10] <@IFYLOFD> I just don't think its necessary
[19:10] <@Cal_Jedi> stupid keys
[19:10] <Tyber> ~support
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> Tyber: Support vote counted.
[19:11] <@Toprawa> ~close
[19:11] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[19:11] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[19:11] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 11, Oppose: 1
[19:11] <@Toprawa> Motion ratified to put OOU LG on separate page.
[19:11] <Menkooroo> Should we vote on the shortcut name?
[19:11] <@Toprawa> Yes, this is item three.
[19:11] <Menkooroo> I liked MJ's suggestion
[19:11] <Menkooroo> with the slash
[19:11] <@Toprawa> Remind me what it was again, MJ?
[19:12] <@MasterJonathan> WP:LG/OOU
[19:12] <@Toprawa> And leave the regular LG at its current title?
[19:12] <@Cal_Jedi> That sounds good.
[19:12] <@Cal_Jedi> Something kind of like WP:QOTD
[19:12] <@MasterJonathan> Or move it as well. I don't care.
[19:12] <@Toprawa> What would the full title of the page be for the OOU LG?
[19:13] <Menkooroo> Wookieepedia:Out-of-universe Layout Guide
[19:13] <@MasterJonathan> WP:Layout Guide/Out-of-universe, to match the shortcut.
[19:13] <Menkooroo> ah
[19:13] <Menkooroo> yes
[19:13] <Menkooroo> him, not me
[19:13] <@Toprawa> Ok.
[19:13] <@Toprawa> Voting to ratify title at Wookieepedia:Layout Guide/Out-of-universe, shortcut at WP:LG/OOU and leaving the IU LG at its current title. SUPPORT or OPPOSE.
[19:13] <@Toprawa> ~open
[19:13] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[19:13] <Menkooroo> ~support
[19:13] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[19:13] <@Cal_Jedi> ~support
[19:13] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[19:13] <Hunterj> ~support
[19:13] <@PurpleTentacle> Hunterj: Support vote counted.
[19:13] <Han_shoots_first> ~support
[19:13] <@PurpleTentacle> Han_shoots_first: Support vote counted.
[19:13] <@Toprawa> ~support
[19:13] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[19:13] <@Xd1358> ~support
[19:13] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[19:13] <@MasterJonathan> ~support
[19:13] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[19:13] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[19:13] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[19:14] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[19:14] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[19:14] <CorellianPremier> ~oppose
[19:14] <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Oppose vote counted.
[19:14] <@Culator|Work> ~support
[19:14] <@PurpleTentacle> Culator|Work: Support vote counted.
[19:14] <@Toprawa> ~close
[19:14] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[19:14] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[19:14] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 10, Oppose: 1
[19:14] <@Toprawa> Motion ratified.
[19:14] <@Toprawa> Are there any other sub-items for this that I missed?
[19:15] <Menkooroo> Fred wanted to propose the Musical theme box, but I guess that'll have to wait for a CT
[19:15] <@MasterJonathan> Not that I can think of. Menk?
[19:15] <@Toprawa> Very well.
[19:15] <@Toprawa> Moving onto item 2.
[19:15] <@Toprawa> Cal Jedi has the floor.
[19:15] <@Cal_Jedi> Thank you.
[19:15] * Xd1358 sets mode: +m
[19:15] <@Cal_Jedi> This proposal would slightly change the way we source articles. 
[19:15] <@Cal_Jedi> I'll provide the links for reference:
[19:15] <@Cal_Jedi> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Sourcing
[19:16] <@Cal_Jedi> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Sourcing#How_to_reference_articles
[19:16] <@Cal_Jedi> I feel that the "single insertion" section is unnecessary and over-confusing. Wookieepedia has always tried to be uniform in its policies.
[19:16] <@Cal_Jedi> The same should be done here. When referencing an article, we should not have two different ways to do it. We should only have one way.
[19:16] <@Cal_Jedi> Having just one way would not only reduce confusion, but it would increase the look of uniformity. I realize that the name parameter is not necessary for it to work properly for one insertion.
[19:16] <@Cal_Jedi> However, I feel that changing the policy to just using the references with the name parameter will greatly aid Wookieepedia now and in the future.
[19:16] <@Cal_Jedi> If this policy passes, the sourcing guide will change as follows:
[19:16] <@Cal_Jedi> Under the section "How to reference articles," the part of "Single insertion of a reference" will be removed.
[19:16] <@Cal_Jedi> In turn, the section "Multiple insertion of the same reference" will be renamed "Insertion of a reference."
[19:17] <@Cal_Jedi> That's it. Hopefully it was pretty straightforward.
[19:17] * Xd1358 sets mode: -m
[19:17] <@Toprawa> Ok, floor is open.
[19:17] <Menkooroo> I support this. I like hovering my cursor over a ref to see what it is, and I get annoyed when the bottom of my browser can't tell me anything
[19:17] <@Toprawa> Per Menk.
[19:17] <@Toprawa> I actually like to read references. :P
[19:17] * @Xd1358 nods
[19:17] <Menkooroo>  Plus, it's a good framework for if the article ever needs to be updated, like sourcing a single-source article.
[19:17] <@Xd1358> Yeah, that's a good point
[19:17] <@CavalierOne> Sounds fine to me. I single source using the Ref name method anyway
[19:17] <@Cal_Jedi> Indeed.
[19:17] <@Xd1358> There's no real reason not to do it.
[19:18] <@Cal_Jedi> Per Menkooroo. That is another essential part of the update.
[19:18] <Menkooroo> Plus, we're removing something rather than adding it.
[19:18] <@IFYLOFD> Si, senor
[19:18] <Menkooroo> It's the opposite of instruction creep!
[19:18] <@Toprawa> Ok, this seems pretty straightforward, so we'll open up voting for the proposal. SUPPORT or OPPOSE.
[19:18] <@Toprawa> ~open
[19:18] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[19:18] <@Xd1358> ~support
[19:18] <@Cal_Jedi> ~support
[19:18] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[19:18] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[19:18] <Menkooroo> ~support
[19:18] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[19:18] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[19:18] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[19:18] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[19:18] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[19:18] <Han_shoots_first> ~support
[19:18] <@PurpleTentacle> Han_shoots_first: Support vote counted.
[19:18] <@Toprawa> ~support
[19:18] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[19:18] <@IFYLOFD> ~support
[19:18] <@PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[19:19] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[19:19] <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[19:19] <@MasterJonathan> ~support Nobody really follows the current rule anyway.
[19:19] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[19:19] * Calrayn (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn) has joined #wookieepedia
[19:19] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Calrayn
[19:19] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +v Calrayn
[19:19] * ChanServ sets mode: -v Calrayn
[19:19] <Calrayn> Ah, crappity crap.
[19:19] <@Toprawa> Last-minute votes?
[19:19] <Calrayn> Stupid time zones.
[19:19] <@Toprawa> Will someone please explain the procedures to Cade in a PM?
[19:19] * Calrayn is now known as Cade
[19:19] <@Toprawa> That will help him catch up.
[19:19] <@Toprawa> ~close
[19:19] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[19:20] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[19:20] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 10, Oppose: 0
[19:20] <@Toprawa> Sourcing amendment ratified.
[19:20] <@Toprawa> I'll give a minute break for Cade to catch up.
[19:20] <@Toprawa> Go pee or get a Pepsi or something. :P
[19:20] <@Xd1358> Just read http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Xd1358/test
[19:20] <@Toprawa> We'll be moving on to item 3.
[19:21] <Cade> Blarg upon my dorm lock.
[19:21] <Cade> I'm getting food.
[19:21] <@Toprawa> Menkooroo, you once more have the floor.
[19:21] * Xd1358 sets mode: +mv Menkooroo
[19:21] <+Menkooroo> Hokay.
[19:21] <+Menkooroo> Infobox exclusivity: Two Mofferences ago, we reached a consensus that nothing should be infobox-exclusive, but we failed to reach a consensus on adding anything to the Layout Guide about it. Since then, it's become common practice, and I think it's past time we made it official. This will also help clear up some existing ambiguity about certain fields.
[19:22] <+Menkooroo> "Add hair, skin, and eye colour to the p&t" is a par-for-the-course objection these days.
[19:22] <+Menkooroo> I propose adding the following to the Layout Guide:
[19:22] * Moff_dogma ([REDACTED]@wookieepedia/dogma) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[19:22] <+Menkooroo> All infobox material must be detailed in the article proper, with the following exceptions:
[19:22] <+Menkooroo> *The out-of-universe "era" field.
[19:22] <+Menkooroo> *The "prev," "conc," and "next" fields of event infoboxes, which are not necessarily relevant to the article.
[19:22] <+Menkooroo> (finish proposed addition)
[19:22] <+Menkooroo> We can discuss the possible addition of other exceptions, which will also help us determine once and for all whether grid coordinates are OOU or not.
[19:22] <+Menkooroo> For the record, I think they're IU.
[19:23] <+Menkooroo> !wiki galactic coordinates
[19:23] <@Nuku-Nuku> Menkooroo: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/galactic_coordinates
[19:23] <+Menkooroo> Aaaaaaaand done.
[19:23] * Xd1358 sets mode: -m
[19:23] <@Toprawa> Floor is open for discussion.
[19:23] <@Cal_Jedi> I agree that the grid coordinates are IU, as well, but that's another discussion, I suppose.
[19:23] <@IFYLOFD> Guess it can't hurt to make it official
[19:23] <@Cal_Jedi> Otherwise, it sounds good.
[19:23] <@Toprawa> One question about the coordinates: are the U-17 graph markings from the Atlas canon?
[19:23] <Cade> I don't see how the Atlas grid coordinates are IU
[19:23] <@Toprawa> because I never put those into a planet article's body
[19:23] <+Menkooroo> That's what we need to figure out.
[19:23] <@CavalierOne> I'd support the addition. The Grid coordinates is an interesting one - they're used to locate planets in the Essential Readers Companion.
[19:24] <+Menkooroo> Some people put them in, others don't.
[19:24] <+Menkooroo> Some object over their absence, others don't.
[19:24] <@Toprawa> ERC is OOU, though, for the record.
[19:24] <@CavalierOne> I've been adding them after several objections on planet noms.
[19:24] <@MasterJonathan> I say leave them out unless/until we get confirmation that they are IU.
[19:24] <Cade> Agreed
[19:24] <+Menkooroo> Yeah, and the link I provided
[19:24] <+Menkooroo> !wiki galactic coordinates
[19:24] <@Toprawa> Ok, this is a sub-plot to this topic. We can discuss this afterward.
[19:24] <@Nuku-Nuku> Menkooroo: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/galactic_coordinates
[19:24] <@CavalierOne> True, ERC os OOU, but its proof that they're being used by LFL outside of the Atlas framework.
[19:24] <+Menkooroo> isn't the U-17 ststem
[19:24] <@Toprawa> Let's stay on topic for the infobox exclusivity 
[19:25] <+Menkooroo> If we think they are OOU
[19:25] <@Toprawa> We'll discuss the coordinates afterward.
[19:25] <+Menkooroo> we should add them to this proposal
[19:25] <+Menkooroo> Ah, in a second vote. I see.
[19:25] <Cade> Menk, the xyz coordinates are definitely IU
[19:25] * Xd1358 sets mode: -v Menkooroo
[19:25] <@Toprawa> Any other questions or comments for infobox exclusivity?
[19:26] <@Toprawa> Keep in mind the following vote will have no necessary bearing on the Atlas coordinates. This will be discussed next.
[19:26] <@Toprawa> We're voting to SUPPORT or OPPOSE Menkooroo's infobox exclusivity proposal.
[19:26] <@Toprawa> ~open
[19:26] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[19:26] <Menkooroo> ~support
[19:26] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[19:26] <@MasterJonathan> ~support
[19:26] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[19:26] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[19:26] <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[19:26] <@Toprawa> ~support
[19:26] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[19:26] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[19:26] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[19:26] <@IFYLOFD> ~support
[19:26] <@PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[19:26] <@Cal_Jedi> ~support
[19:26] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[19:26] <Hunterj> ~support
[19:26] <@PurpleTentacle> Hunterj: Support vote counted.
[19:26] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[19:26] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[19:26] <Han_shoots_first> ~support
[19:26] <@PurpleTentacle> Han_shoots_first: Support vote counted.
[19:26] <Cade> None from me
[19:26] <Cade> ~support
[19:26] <@PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[19:27] <@Toprawa> ~close
[19:27] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[19:27] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[19:27] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 11, Oppose: 0
[19:27] <@Toprawa> Infobox exclusivity amendment ratified. 
[19:27] <@Toprawa> Next topic: the Atlas coordinates.
[19:27] <@Toprawa> Floor is open for discussion.
[19:27] * dogma ([REDACTED]@wookieepedia/dogma) has joined #wookieepedia
[19:27] * ChanServ sets mode: +v dogma
[19:27] <@CavalierOne> Only using the Atlas Online Companion for reference, we use it for info including system, sector and region. The Grid Coordinates are listed as well, which, to my mind, makes them an official, IU part of the "galactic address".
[19:27] <@Cal_Jedi> Indeed.
[19:27] <CorellianPremier> "Triple zero" That's IU enough for me
[19:27] <@Cal_Jedi> Per Cav.
[19:28] <@Toprawa> Keep in mind there are two different coordinate systems.
[19:28] <Exiledjedi> That's what I thought.
[19:28] <@Toprawa> There's the "Triple Zero" thing and the Atlas coordinates.
[19:28] <@Toprawa> Separate systems.
[19:28] <@CavalierOne> Yeah, this is for U-21 or A-17
[19:28] <@MasterJonathan> Keep them out of the article proper unless/until we get official confirmation that they are indeed IU.
[19:28] <Cade> Yeah.
[19:28] <+dogma> Agreed
[19:28] <@Toprawa> We can send an e-mail to Daniel Wallace or Jason Fry and ask them about this very easily.
[19:28] <@Toprawa> They're very reachable.
[19:29] <Cade> Maybe send a message to the author
[19:29] <Han_shoots_first> so if its confirmed that they are IU, then add them ?
[19:29] <Cade> Dammit, I hate typing on my iPad
[19:29] <@IFYLOFD> Well then maybe we should hold off on this
[19:29] <Menkooroo> If we're leaving them out for now, then we should add a line to this proposal.
[19:29] <@IFYLOFD> Wait for word from Wallace or Fry
[19:29] <@Toprawa> per Floyd
[19:29] <@IFYLOFD> And then take it to CT
[19:29] <@MasterJonathan> Perhaps we should ask the authors first, then CT the addition if told they're OOU.
[19:29] <@CavalierOne> ERC uses them as a location guide. And, I know the ERC is OOU, but still - they're in use beyound the Atlas.
[19:29] <@Cal_Jedi> Yeah.
[19:29] <Cade> Per Floyd *shudders*
[19:29] <@Cal_Jedi> Per Floyd.
[19:29] <Menkooroo> In which case we're leaving them in articles for now.
[19:29] <@MasterJonathan> rather than vote on it twice.
[19:29] <@IFYLOFD> !boot Cade
[19:29] * Cade (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn) has left #wookieepedia (requested by Nuku-Nuku (IFYLOFD))
[19:29] <+dogma> Per Floyd
[19:29] <@Cal_Jedi> XD
[19:30] <@IFYLOFD> MOFFERENCE KICK!
[19:30] * Cade (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn) has joined #wookieepedia
[19:30] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Cade
[19:30] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +v Cade
[19:30] * Xd1358 sets mode: -vv Cade dogma
[19:30] <@Toprawa> Ok, motion to send question to Wallace and/or Fry for clarification and ideally taking this topic to a CT discussion afterward. SUPPORT or OPPOSE.
[19:30] <@Toprawa> ~open
[19:30] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[19:30] <Cade> ~support
[19:30] <@PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[19:30] <@IFYLOFD> !support
[19:30] <@Nuku-Nuku> IFYLOFD: Error: "support" is not a valid command.
[19:30] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[19:30] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[19:30] <dogma> ~support
[19:30] <@PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted.
[19:30] <@MasterJonathan> ~support
[19:30] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[19:30] <Hunterj> ~support
[19:30] <@PurpleTentacle> Hunterj: Support vote counted.
[19:30] <Han_shoots_first> ~support
[19:30] <@PurpleTentacle> Han_shoots_first: Support vote counted.
[19:30] <@Toprawa> ~support
[19:30] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[19:30] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[19:30] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[19:30] <@IFYLOFD> ~support
[19:30] <@PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[19:30] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[19:30] <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[19:30] <Menkooroo> ~support keeping in mind that they're fair game for including in the article body for now
[19:30] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[19:30] <@Cal_Jedi> ~support
[19:30] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[19:30] <@Xd1358> ~support
[19:30] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[19:31] <@Toprawa> ~close
[19:31] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[19:31] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[19:31] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 13, Oppose: 0
[19:31] <@Toprawa> Ok, question will be sent to Wallace or Fry. We can discuss specifics later.
[19:31] <Menkooroo> Who will ask them?
[19:31] <@Toprawa> Moving onto item 4.
[19:31] <Menkooroo> Cav, you seem the most knowledgeable
[19:31] <@IFYLOFD> !youdoit
[19:31] <@Nuku-Nuku> CorellianPremier should do it.
[19:31] <@Toprawa> We can discuss specifics later.
[19:31] <@Xd1358> Heh
[19:31] <Cade> Question
[19:31] <@Toprawa> Anyone can do it.
[19:31] <@Toprawa> Go ahead, Cade.
[19:31] <Cade> Actually, suggestion
[19:32] <Cade> Maybe the Angry Abi
[19:32] <Cade> Dammit.
[19:32] <@MasterJonathan> Just don't bombard him with a dozen copies of the same question. :P
[19:32] <Cade> Angry Birds page should be locked.
[19:32] <@Cal_Jedi> It might get his attention. :P
[19:32] <@Toprawa> Cade, please stay on topic.
[19:32] <@Xd1358> Off-topic!
[19:32] <@Xd1358> Move on
[19:32] <@Cal_Jedi> And this is a Mofference opint?
[19:32] <Cade> Sorry.
[19:32] <@Toprawa> If you need an admin's help, PM them.
[19:32] <@Cal_Jedi> *point
[19:32] * _Kyle_ (~Kyle_@[REDACTED]) Quit (Quit: Warning! you have run out of internet)
[19:32] * Toprawa sets mode: +m
[19:32] <@Toprawa> Moving onto item 4.
[19:33] <@Toprawa> Menkooroo, you have the floor.
[19:33] * Xd1358 sets mode: +v Menkooroo
[19:33] <+Menkooroo> Tired of me yet, suckas?
[19:33] <@Xd1358> Yeah
[19:33] <+Menkooroo> Make Wookieepedia:Civility a full-fledged policy: Believe it or not, our basic "be nice to each other" guidelines are still only a proposed policy. They're common practice and the page frequently cited by many users as being official policy despite its claim that "References or links to this page should not describe it as "policy"." Making it full policy is long overdue.
[19:33] <@Xd1358> I mean, nope
[19:33] <+Menkooroo> !wiki Wookieepedia:Civility
[19:33] <@Nuku-Nuku> Menkooroo: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia%3ACivility
[19:33] <+Menkooroo> It's quoted as policy all the time
[19:33] <+Menkooroo> People have been blocked for violating it
[19:33] <+Menkooroo> And "be nice to each other" is pretty basic stuff.
[19:33] <+Menkooroo> That's all;.
[19:34] <@Toprawa> Floor is open.
[19:34] * Xd1358 sets mode: -mv Menkooroo
[19:34] <Cade> No reason not too
[19:34] <@CavalierOne> But if its policy, we can't be snarky to noobs!
[19:34] <dogma> Let's amke it a policy.
[19:34] <@Cal_Jedi> Meh. There's a difference between being snarky and insulting. :P
[19:34] <@IFYLOFD> We can always be snarky to noobs
[19:34] <Han_shoots_first> if its already practiced as policy, shouldn't it be policy?
[19:34] <@Toprawa> Our snarkiness is covered under admin autonomy. :P
[19:34] <@MasterJonathan> Go for it.
[19:34] <@IFYLOFD> We are the Cabal, we can do whatever we want
[19:34] <Menkooroo> Han shoots first: Bingo! :D
[19:34] <Exiledjedi> Per Cal
[19:34] <Cade> Better to have rules and argue the specifics than to have nothing
[19:34] <@CavalierOne> Tope: oh, thank God :P
[19:35] <@Cal_Jedi> Thank you, Tope. :P
[19:35] * Cade sighs
[19:35] <@Toprawa> Ok, this is pretty straightforward. 
[19:35] <@Toprawa> Open up voting. SUPPORT or OPPOSE to make WP:CIV a full policy.
[19:35] <@Toprawa> ~open
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[19:35] <Cade> ~support
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[19:35] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[19:35] <dogma> ~support
[19:35] <Hunterj> ~support
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Hunterj: Support vote counted.
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted.
[19:35] <Han_shoots_first> ~support
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Han_shoots_first: Support vote counted.
[19:35] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[19:35] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[19:35] <@Toprawa> ~support
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[19:35] <@MasterJonathan> ~support
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[19:35] <@Cal_Jedi> ~support
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[19:35] <Menkooroo> ~support
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[19:36] <@Xd1358> ~support
[19:36] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[19:36] <@Toprawa> ~close
[19:36] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[19:36] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[19:36] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 12, Oppose: 0
[19:36] <@Toprawa> WP:CIV is now full policy.
[19:36] <@IFYLOFD> ~opposejusttobeadick
[19:36] <@Toprawa> Too late. :P
[19:36] <@Toprawa> Moving into item 5.
[19:36] * Cade sighs
[19:36] <@Toprawa> Toprawa has the floor.
[19:36] <Menkooroo> Floyd! You can't call yourself a dick!
[19:36] <Menkooroo> It's policy now!
[19:36] * Toprawa sets mode: +m
[19:37] <@IFYLOFD> Bah!
[19:37] <@Toprawa> Ok, I'm just going to copy and paste this from the Mofference page.
[19:37] <@Toprawa> Succession boxes. We currently have an inconsistent approach to how we reference succession boxes. Many articles source the "name" field (see Lux Bonteri#Sources as a random example: "Senator of Onderon[29]"), but some do not. We should codify one approach for standardization. I expect this item to take place in two votes. Vote 1 will be to decide on whether we want to source it or not, and...
[19:37] <@Toprawa> ...Vote 2 will be to add an official declaration to the Layout Guide's "Succession box" section: Either "Within the {{Succession box}}, there are six possible fields to insert information, all of which must be sourced:" or "Within the {{Succession box}}, there are six possible fields to insert information, all of which must be sourced, excluding the title field, which will remain unsourced:"...
[19:37] <@Toprawa> ...Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:11, November 5, 2012 (UTC) 
[19:37] <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lux_Bonteri#Sources
[19:37] <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Layout_Guide#Succession_box
[19:37] <@Toprawa> Floor is open.
[19:37] * Xd1358 sets mode: -m
[19:38] <Menkooroo> I think reffing the name is important
[19:38] <Menkooroo> To confirm that they held that title
[19:38] <Cade> No reason not to source everything
[19:38] <@MasterJonathan> Isn't sourcing the name redundant to sourcing the years they held that title?
[19:38] <@Xd1358> Yeah, I agree. I see no reason why not
[19:38] <@Toprawa> I think it's unnecessary, since referencing the years accomplishes the same thing.
[19:38] <dogma> I don't think its nessacary
[19:38] <Menkooroo> MJ" No, actually
[19:38] <@Toprawa> But if we really want to, it's no biggie to me
[19:38] <Cade> Hmmm....
[19:38] <@IFYLOFD> Per Menk
[19:38] <Menkooroo> Say the NEC says the years they held the position
[19:38] <Menkooroo> and another source confirms the canonical name of hte position
[19:38] <Cade> Ah, good point
[19:39] <Menkooroo> Also, Burr Nolyds
[19:39] <Menkooroo> !wiki Burr Nolyds
[19:39] <@Nuku-Nuku> Menkooroo: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Burr_Nolyds
[19:39] <Menkooroo> One source says he heads the Imperial ruling council
[19:39] <Menkooroo> another source says that the council head is the leader of the Empire
[19:39] <@CavalierOne> True. Leia has been given various titles for her NR rule, for one thing.
[19:39] <Menkooroo> So I need to source both of them
[19:39] <Cade> Source all the things
[19:40] <dogma> I guess we shouldn't do it case by case.
[19:40] <@MasterJonathan> OK, then I guess we source it.
[19:40] <dogma> Source it.
[19:40] <Cade> That leaves loopholes, dogma
[19:40] <@IFYLOFD> Source ALL the things.
[19:40] <Cade> And we can't have loopholes.
[19:40] <@Toprawa> Yeah, case-by-case here isn't the best way to do it
[19:40] <Menkooroo> He said "shouldn't" :P
[19:40] <dogma> I was saying we can't do it case by case.
[19:40] <Cade> :P
[19:41] <Han_shoots_first> so its like sourcing yoda,and sourcing he was a jedi master also ?
[19:41] <Cade> ....
[19:41] <Menkooroo> No, you don't need to source the character name
[19:41] <Cade> W
[19:41] <Menkooroo> Source that he was the "Jedi Grand Master"
[19:41] <Cade> Dammit.
[19:41] <Menkooroo> to Dark Rendezvous, say
[19:41] <Menkooroo> and then also source the years he held that position
[19:42] <Cade> The Emperor has some interesting sourcing too
[19:42] <Menkooroo> Good example
[19:42] <Cade> !wiki Sith Emperor
[19:42] <@Nuku-Nuku> Cade: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_Emperor
[19:42] <Cade> He's the Dark Lord of the Sith for 1400 years, and he's concurrent with others
[19:43] <@Toprawa> Ok, favor seems to be for sourcing, so we'll open up voting for that: SUPPORT or OPPOSE to source the title field in succession boxes and adding this sentence to the relevant section in the LG: "Within the {{Succession box}}, there are six possible fields to insert information, all of which must be sourced:"
[19:43] <Cade> I had to source each of those separately.
[19:43] <@Toprawa> ~open
[19:43] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[19:43] <Cade> ~support
[19:43] <@PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[19:43] <@MasterJonathan> ~support
[19:43] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[19:43] <Menkooroo> ~support
[19:43] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[19:43] <@IFYLOFD> ~support
[19:43] <@PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[19:43] <dogma> ~support
[19:43] <@PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted.
[19:43] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[19:43] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[19:43] <Hunterj> ~support
[19:43] <@PurpleTentacle> Hunterj: Support vote counted.
[19:43] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[19:43] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[19:43] <@Toprawa> ~support
[19:43] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[19:43] <@Cal_Jedi> ~support
[19:43] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[19:43] <@Xd1358> ~support
[19:43] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[19:43] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[19:43] <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[19:43] <Han_shoots_first> ~support
[19:43] <@PurpleTentacle> Han_shoots_first: Support vote counted.
[19:43] <@Toprawa> ~close
[19:43] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[19:43] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[19:43] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 13, Oppose: 0
[19:44] <@Toprawa> Sourcing title field and LG addition ratified.
[19:44] * Xd1358 sets mode: -r
[19:44] <@Toprawa> Moving onto item 6.
[19:44] <@Toprawa> Toprawa holds the floor.
[19:44] * Winterz ([REDACTED]@gateway/web/freenode/[REDACTED]) has joined #wookieepedia
[19:44] <@Toprawa> I'm going to copy and paste from the Mofference page again.
[19:44] * Xd1358 sets mode: +m
[19:44] <@Toprawa> Scroll boxes in Notes and references, Part I. Recently there has been some contention regarding when to use a scroll box in an article's Notes and references section. Currently, our policy, according to Wookieepedia:Sourcing#Long reference lists, is to require the use of a scroll box when an article has at least fifteen individual references. This figure of fifteen seems unnecessarily...
[19:44] <@Toprawa> ...confining, both out of personal presentation preference and for search functionality. As SavageBob notes here, in many browsers a particular item becomes unsearchable if it's in an "inactive" part of a scroll-box section. So, I propose amending this policy to make the use of scroll boxes more of an optional thing to suit both individual taste and article purpose by rewording the first...
[19:44] <@Toprawa> ...sentence in that "Long reference lists" section to instead read: "As a general rule, Wookieepedia recommends reserving scroll boxes for reference lists to articles that employ no less than thirty individual references. However, thirty is by no means a hard figure, and final decisions for the use of scroll boxes should be determined by what best suits each individual article." I'm arriving...
[19:44] <@Toprawa> ...at 30 as a bare minimum based on what Bob says about search functionality, but I'm very open to raising that figure if popular opinion sees fit. Additionally, this would also include removing entirely the subsequent sentence in that section detailing the rationale behind why fifteen was chosen.
[19:45] <@Toprawa> Floor is open.
[19:45] * Xd1358 sets mode: -m
[19:45] <@Toprawa> Oh, wait.
[19:45] <@Toprawa> Here's the links:
[19:45] <Menkooroo> Agree. Fifteen is waaaaaay too short.
[19:45] <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Sourcing#Long_reference_lists
[19:45] <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Muscle6386#Scroll_boxes
[19:45] <@Toprawa> Bob's discussion ^
[19:46] <@Toprawa> I'm ok with 30, but I can definitely go higher.
[19:46] <Cade> My general policy is to go by eye
[19:46] <@Cal_Jedi> I'm sorry, but I jsut have to do this:
[19:46] <@Toprawa> Bob actually recommended maybe 50.
[19:46] <@Cal_Jedi> !peak
[19:46] <@Nuku-Nuku> Cal_Jedi: Fiolli set a record of 42 people in #wookieepedia on July 26, 2009 at 12:20 AM EST. You'll need 3 more people to break the peak.
[19:46] <Cade> :P
[19:46] <@MasterJonathan> Cal, I memorized the peak long ago. :P
[19:46] <@Cal_Jedi> I don't bother. It's much easier to ask Nuku. :P
[19:46] <@Toprawa> Let's stay on topic, please.
[19:46] <dogma> How bout 40?
[19:46] <Cade> I've never seen the lack of functionally before
[19:47] <Menkooroo> I think 40 is too long.
[19:47] <Han_shoots_first> so scroll boxes only go on of there is 30 or more sources ?
[19:47] <dogma> 35?
[19:47] <Menkooroo> I've traditionally gone by 25
[19:47] <Menkooroo> but I think 30 is better
[19:47] <@CavalierOne> Personally, I'm a proponent of using {{Reflist|2}} in place of scrollboxes.
[19:47] <@IFYLOFD> 33.5
[19:47] <@Xd1358> !dice 1d100
[19:47] <@Nuku-Nuku> Xd1358: 81
[19:47] <@MasterJonathan> I say make it purely author's choice.
[19:47] <@MasterJonathan> And per Cav
[19:47] <dogma> 27.57
[19:47] <@Cal_Jedi> Per Xd. :P
[19:47] <Menkooroo> Should we standardize Reflist|2 as well?
[19:47] <@Toprawa> One thing at a time.
[19:47] <Cade> This needs to depend on the references themselves.
[19:47] <@Toprawa> Let's discuss numbers for the original proposal.
[19:47] <@CavalierOne> What's the ref count on say, Caedus or Wedge?
[19:48] <@Toprawa> Reminding everyone that the proposal is to "recommend" that scroll boxes only be used for whatever number decide.
[19:48] <@Toprawa> It doesn't mandate it.
[19:48] <@MasterJonathan> !wiki Wedge Antilles#Notes and references
[19:48] <@Nuku-Nuku> MasterJonathan: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wedge_Antilles%23Notes_and_references
[19:48] <@Toprawa> Part of the proposal here is to make it an optional thing.
[19:48] <Cade> My giant TOR time ref is like 5 standard refs, and TORcite can get pretty long
[19:48] <@MasterJonathan> Wedge has 202 unique references
[19:49] <Exiledjedi> Let's leave it as the author's choice
[19:49] <dogma> That's a lot.....
[19:49] <Cade> What exactly is Reflist|2?
[19:49] <@CavalierOne> Sorts the refs into a double column
[19:49] <Menkooroo> !wiki Peter Cushing#Notes and references
[19:49] <@Nuku-Nuku> Menkooroo: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Peter_Cushing%23Notes_and_references
[19:49] <@MasterJonathan> Cade: Two columns. It doesn't work in all browsers, though.
[19:49] <@Toprawa> We'll reserve Ref|2 discussion for after this one.
[19:49] <@MasterJonathan> specifically older versions of IE
[19:49] <@Xd1358> Older versions of IE need to die already
[19:50] <@Toprawa> Another call for suggestions for numbers.
[19:50] <@Toprawa> The original proposal recommended 30.
[19:50] <Menkooroo> 30
[19:50] <@Toprawa> I wouldn't mind seeing 40 or 50.
[19:50] <@CavalierOne> Looking at longer articles like Wedge, with 200+ refs, I think the number needs to be at least 50
[19:50] <Menkooroo> 40 un-boxed looks messy, IMO
[19:50] <@MasterJonathan> Let's go 50.
[19:50] <Cade> I'd say 30-40, but keep in mind overly large references
[19:50] <CorellianPremier> 30 seems fine. It's a nice double 
[19:50] <@Cal_Jedi> Indeed.
[19:50] <Menkooroo> Since we're recommending
[19:50] <Cade> 30, then.
[19:50] <dogma> How bout 35?
[19:50] <@MasterJonathan> Would this apply to Appearances and Sources also? We commonly put those in scroll boxes.
[19:51] <Menkooroo> we could even say something like 30 - 40
[19:51] <Menkooroo> or 30 - 50
[19:51] <@Toprawa> MJ> No.
[19:51] <@Toprawa> This is for references only.
[19:51] <Cade> Menk, good point
[19:51] <@Toprawa> 30-50 seems pretty broad. 
[19:51] <@Toprawa> Why not just make it 40-50?
[19:51] <@CavalierOne> Sound fair.
[19:51] <Cade> 30-40.
[19:51] <@MasterJonathan> I could go for 40?50
[19:51] <Menkooroo> I like 30 - 40
[19:51] <@Cal_Jedi> IMO, 40-50 makes more sense.
[19:51] <@Xd1358> 40-50!
[19:51] <Cade> Sorry, I can't seem to finish my sentences properly.
[19:51] <@CavalierOne> Say 40.
[19:51] <dogma> 30-50\
[19:52] <@CavalierOne> Its the most quoted number
[19:52] <@Xd1358> !echo 40-50
[19:52] <@Nuku-Nuku> 40-50
[19:52] <@Toprawa> Ok, we're going to do this in three separate votes, all of which will be straight plurality votes.
[19:52] <@Toprawa> Meaning highest number of supports for each wins.
[19:52] <Cade> No opposing?
[19:52] <@Toprawa> Don't even vote oppose, because that's unnecessary.
[19:52] <@Toprawa> Correct.
[19:52] <@Toprawa> First one is for 30-40. Please vote SUPPORT only.
[19:52] * Xd1358 sets mode: -q $~a
[19:52] <Cade> ~support
[19:52] <@PurpleTentacle> Cade: There is no open vote on this channel.
[19:52] <@MasterJonathan> no bot?
[19:53] <@Toprawa> Oops
[19:53] <@Toprawa> Sorry
[19:53] <@Toprawa> ~open
[19:53] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[19:53] <Menkooroo> ~support
[19:53] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[19:53] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[19:53] <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[19:53] <@MasterJonathan> Wait. What are all three options?
[19:53] <Cade> ~support
[19:53] <@PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[19:53] <@Toprawa> Ok, let's start again.
[19:53] <@IFYLOFD> WHICH ONE IS THIS AGAIN
[19:53] <@Toprawa> I should clarify.
[19:53] <@MasterJonathan> I need to know what the others are to pick one.
[19:53] <Cade> Same.
[19:53] <@Toprawa> Vote 1 will be for 30-40. Vote 2 will be for 40-50. Vote 3 will be for 50 or more.
[19:53] <dogma> It's 30-40, 40-50, and 30-50 I assume.
[19:53] <Winterz> ~support
[19:54] <@PurpleTentacle> Winterz: Support vote counted.
[19:54] <@Toprawa> There is no voting right now, Winterz
[19:54] <dogma> ~support
[19:54] <@PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted.
[19:54] <@Toprawa> ~close
[19:54] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[19:54] <@Toprawa> This is for VOTE 1. 30-40. SUPPORT only, please.
[19:54] <@Toprawa> ~open
[19:54] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[19:54] <Menkooroo> ~support
[19:54] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[19:54] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[19:54] <dogma> ~support
[19:54] <@PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted.
[19:54] <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[19:54] * LelalMekha ([REDACTED]@gateway/web/qwebirc/irc.wikia.com/[REDACTED]) has joined #wookieepedia
[19:54] <Winterz> ~support
[19:54] <@PurpleTentacle> Winterz: Support vote counted.
[19:54] <Hunterj> ~support
[19:54] <@PurpleTentacle> Hunterj: Support vote counted.
[19:55] <@Toprawa> ~close
[19:55] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[19:55] <Cade> ~support
[19:55] <@PurpleTentacle> Cade: There is no open vote on this channel.
[19:55] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[19:55] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: There is no open vote on this channel.
[19:55] <@Toprawa> ...
[19:55] <Cade> Dang it.
[19:55] <@Toprawa> Come on, guys.
[19:55] <@Toprawa> I'm giving you 10-15 seconds after the end of each vote.
[19:55] <Cade> I'm trying to get food!
[19:55] <@Toprawa> Try to keep up.
[19:55] <@IFYLOFD> Too bad
[19:55] <@Xd1358> The Wookieepedia train waits for no man
[19:55] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[19:55] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 5, Oppose: 0
[19:55] <@Toprawa> I'll count those two. So it's 7.
[19:55] <@Toprawa> VOTE 2 is for 40-50.
[19:55] <@Toprawa> ~open
[19:55] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[19:55] <@IFYLOFD> ~support
[19:55] <@PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[19:55] <@Cal_Jedi> ~support
[19:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[19:56] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[19:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 2, Oppose: 0
[19:56] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[19:56] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[19:56] <Han_shoots_first> ~support
[19:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Han_shoots_first: Support vote counted.
[19:56] <@Xd1358> ~support
[19:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[19:56] <@Toprawa> Oops, damnit. :P
[19:56] <Winterz> ~oppose
[19:56] <@Toprawa> ~support
[19:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[19:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Winterz: Oppose vote counted.
[19:56] <LelalMekha> ~support
[19:56] <@PurpleTentacle> LelalMekha: Support vote counted.
[19:56] <@MasterJonathan> ~support
[19:56] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[19:56] <@Cal_Jedi> Winterz: No opposes, please.
[19:56] <@Toprawa> There are no oppose votes here.
[19:56] <@Xd1358> No opposes please
[19:56] <@Toprawa> 10 seconds. Gets your votes in now.
[19:56] <@Toprawa> ~close
[19:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[19:56] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[19:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 8, Oppose: 1
[19:56] <Winterz> Now I'm confused
[19:56] <dogma> tie.
[19:56] <@MasterJonathan> PurpleTentacle needs an ~option1/~option2/~option3/etc. feature.
[19:56] <@Toprawa> VVote 2 is winning.
[19:57] <@Toprawa> There are no opposes.
[19:57] <@Cal_Jedi> Its not a tie.
[19:57] <@IFYLOFD> So 7 for 1, 8 for 2
[19:57] <@Toprawa> This is a straight plurality vote.
[19:57] <dogma> Ah.
[19:57] <Menkooroo> THERE IS NO CABAL
[19:57] <@Toprawa> Floyd> Yes
[19:57] <Menkooroo> I mean, oppose votes
[19:57] <@Toprawa> VOTE 3. 50 or more. SUPPORT ONLY.
[19:57] <@Toprawa> ~open
[19:57] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[19:57] <Cade> Wait, is there voting for more than one?
[19:57] <@Xd1358> *tumbleweed*
[19:57] <@Cal_Jedi> .....
[19:57] <@Cal_Jedi> yes, Cade.
[19:57] <@Toprawa> Cade> Yes
[19:57] <@Toprawa> ~support
[19:57] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[19:57] <@Cal_Jedi> That's all we've been talking about. :P
[19:57] <@MasterJonathan> ~support
[19:57] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[19:57] <LelalMekha> ~support
[19:57] <@PurpleTentacle> LelalMekha: Support vote counted.
[19:57] <Menkooroo> ~support just to give it some love
[19:57] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[19:58] <@IFYLOFD> ~oppose Because I'm a rebel
[19:58] <@PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Oppose vote counted.
[19:58] <Karo|away> ~revolution
[19:58] <@Toprawa> 10 seconds. Support now or else.
[19:58] <@IFYLOFD> It lost anyway
[19:58] * @Xd1358 puts Floyd back in cage
[19:58] <Menkooroo> ~else
[19:58] <@Cal_Jedi> XD
[19:58] <@Toprawa> ~close
[19:58] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[19:58] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[19:58] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 4, Oppose: 1
[19:58] <@Toprawa> Ok, the winning option is 40-50.
[19:58] <@Toprawa> So now we'll go back to the original proposal.
[19:58] <Cade> Dammit, I just wanted my oatmeal cookie
[19:58] <@Toprawa> Cade, stay on topic.
[19:59] <@Toprawa> You're going to be de-voiced.
[19:59] <Cade> Sorry, I've got a delayed connection.
[19:59] <@Toprawa> We're opening up secondary voting to add this statement to the LG: ""As a general rule, Wookieepedia recommends reserving scroll boxes for reference lists to articles that employ no less than forty to fifty individual references. However, this iis by no means a hard figure, and final decisions for the use of scroll boxes should be determined by what best suits each individual article."
[20:00] <@Toprawa> Except for spelling errors and the like. :P
[20:00] <@Toprawa> ~open
[20:00] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[20:00] <Menkooroo> ~support
[20:00] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[20:00] <dogma> ~support
[20:00] <@PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted.
[20:00] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[20:00] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[20:00] <@Toprawa> ~support
[20:00] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[20:00] <@Xd1358> ~support
[20:00] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[20:00] <Hunterj> ~support
[20:00] <@PurpleTentacle> Hunterj: Support vote counted.
[20:00] <@MasterJonathan> ~support
[20:00] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[20:00] <LelalMekha> +SUPPORT
[20:00] <Han_shoots_first> ~support
[20:00] <@PurpleTentacle> Han_shoots_first: Support vote counted.
[20:00] <@IFYLOFD> ~support
[20:00] <@PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[20:00] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[20:00] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[20:00] <LelalMekha> ~support
[20:00] <@PurpleTentacle> LelalMekha: Support vote counted.
[20:00] <@Toprawa> ~close
[20:00] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[20:00] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[20:00] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 11, Oppose: 0
[20:00] <@Toprawa> Amendment ratified.
[20:00] <@Toprawa> Now, I'm opening the floor for Ref|2 discussion.
[20:01] <Menkooroo> Do we need to codify this?
[20:01] <@MasterJonathan> Which I'll point out doesn't work in older versions of IE, and it might not work in current versions of IE either.
[20:01] <@Toprawa> Well, we should come up with a general idea for a statement to add to the LG.
[20:01] <@Xd1358> Not surprising :P
[20:01] <Menkooroo> Or just call it an alternative to a scrollbox, subjject to the same recommendations of 40 - 50?
[20:01] <Exiledjedi> It doesn't work in current versions of IE.
[20:01] <Cade> I'd have to see what it looks like with our various references
[20:02] <@Toprawa> ping CavalierOne
[20:02] <Cade> It depends on the viewer's screen width
[20:02] <@Toprawa> I know you wanted to discuss this.
[20:02] <@CavalierOne> Well, if current IE doesn't support it, then there's really no point in adding it to the LG.
[20:02] <@Toprawa> I'm ok with that
[20:02] <@MasterJonathan> Leave it as author's choice, I say.
[20:03] * CulatorMobile (~Darth_Cul@wookieepedia/bureaucrat/Darth-Culator) has joined #wookieepedia
[20:03] * ChanServ sets mode: +o CulatorMobile
[20:03] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +o CulatorMobile
[20:03] <Menkooroo> Yeah!
[20:03] <@Toprawa> Is there anyone gung-ho about adding one anyway?
[20:03] <@CavalierOne> Out of curiousity, what does it look like in IE?
[20:03] <@CavalierOne> Like a standard Reflist?
[20:03] <@MasterJonathan> Cav: like it's not there.
[20:03] <Exiledjedi> Pretty much
[20:03] <Cade> Because unfortunately many people still use IE. Agreed. 
[20:03] <@MasterJonathan> I mean like the |2 isn't there.
[20:03] <dogma> Same as a standard reff list
[20:03] <@CavalierOne> So using it doesn't stop the refs showing?
[20:03] <Menkooroo> It doesn't break anything?
[20:04] <@MasterJonathan> No. It just shows as a single column, same as if you didn't use it at all.
[20:04] <@CavalierOne> Then author's choice. There's no harm using it, but since IE doesn't support its showing, then leave it out of the guide.
[20:04] <Menkooroo> Agreed
[20:04] <@Toprawa> Agreed.
[20:04] <Menkooroo> ~support Cav
[20:04] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: There is no open vote on this channel.
[20:04] <Menkooroo> ;)
[20:04] <@Toprawa> Ok, we don't need to hold a vote on that, then. Unless anyone's gung-ho, like I said.
[20:04] <@CavalierOne> Nah :P
[20:04] <@Toprawa> Which there doesn't appear to be anyone.
[20:05] <@Toprawa> Ok, moving onto item 7.
[20:05] <@Toprawa> Toprawa holds the floor.
[20:05] * Xd1358 sets mode: +m
[20:05] <@Toprawa> I'll copy and paste from the Mofference page:
[20:05] <@Toprawa> Scroll boxes in Notes and references, Part II. Since this policy involves how to format articles, this should also be detailed in Wookieepedia:Layout Guide#Notes and references. I propose two things here. Firstly, simply adding the aforementioned proposed amendment from the previous item to this LG section (depending on the final number decided upon): "As a general rule, Wookieepedia...
[20:05] <@Toprawa> ...recommends reserving scroll boxes for reference lists to articles that employ no less than thirty individual references. However, thirty is by no means a hard figure, and final decisions for the use of scroll boxes should be determined by what best suits each individual article." Secondly, I think it would be a helpful guideline to point out that scroll boxes can and may be manipulated...
[20:05] <@Toprawa> ...for size. For example, in Hoth asteroid field#Notes and references, I've changed the standard size of the normal scroll box to enlarge it, which still maintains the purpose of the scroll box but also makes the section a bit easier to read and navigate, in my opinion. So, I propose also adding this sentence to both this LG section and Wookieepedia:Sourcing#Long reference lists: "Scroll...
[20:05] <@Toprawa> ...boxes may also be formatted for size depending on what best suits each individual article. This is achieved by changing the regular {{Scroll_box|content={{Reflist}}}} formatting to, for example, {{Scroll_box|height=400px|width=100%|content={{Reflist}}}}."
[20:05] <@Toprawa> Here are links for your reference:
[20:05] <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Layout_Guide#Notes_and_references
[20:05] <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hoth_asteroid_field#Notes_and_references
[20:05] <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Sourcing#Long_reference_lists
[20:06] <@Toprawa> Will give everyone a moment to digest that...
[20:06] * @Culator|Work ([REDACTED]@wookieepedia/bureaucrat/Darth-Culator) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[20:07] <@Toprawa> Ok, discussion is open - but we'll move right to the first vote for this topic, since we've already discussed this in the previous topic. Then we'll discuss the second point of this current topic.
[20:07] * Xd1358 sets mode: -m
[20:07] <Menkooroo> But change "thirty" to "between forty and fifty", right?
[20:07] * @CulatorMobile (~Darth_Cul@wookieepedia/bureaucrat/Darth-Culator) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[20:07] <@CavalierOne> So the size will be dependent on author's choice? 
[20:07] <@Toprawa> Menk> Yes
[20:07] <@CavalierOne> If the author deems the article to need a bigger box then it gets one?
[20:07] <@Toprawa> We're simply adding the same statement we approved in last vote to Wookieepedia:Sourcing
[20:07] <@Cal_Jedi> Sounds good.
[20:08] <@Toprawa> I'm just trying to have this stated in both the LG and our Sourcing policy page for clarification 
[20:08] <Menkooroo> very minor detail
[20:08] <@Toprawa> Yes.
[20:08] <Menkooroo> can we jettison "no less than" ?
[20:08] <Menkooroo> "no less than between" sounds weird.
[20:08] <Cade> So, the number of refs thing is the only statement being added?
[20:09] <Menkooroo> wait, I made it worse
[20:09] <@Cal_Jedi> "between forty and fifty" would just take the place of that whole part, correct?
[20:09] <@Toprawa> There is no "between" :P
[20:09] <Menkooroo> ah, good
[20:09] <Menkooroo> So "no less than forty" ?
[20:09] <@CavalierOne> Okay, question: if we're changing the scroll box height to accomodate larger reflists, then why not change the actual scroll box settings to produce a larger box in the first place?
[20:09] <@Cal_Jedi> "...lists to articles that employ between forty and fifty individual references. "
[20:09] <@Cal_Jedi> Correct?
[20:09] <Menkooroo> no, that makes it sound like over fifty shouldn't have it
[20:09] <@Toprawa> As a general rule, Wookieepedia recommends reserving scroll boxes for reference lists to articles that employ no less than forty to fifty individual references. However, this is by no means a hard figure, and final decisions for the use of scroll boxes should be determined by what best suits each individual article.
[20:09] <Cade> "No less than 40 to 50"
[20:10] <@MasterJonathan> "no less than forty to fifty references"
[20:10] <@Toprawa> That's what we're discussing. What I just posted.
[20:10] <Menkooroo> perfect
[20:10] <@Toprawa> This is what we just ratified to put into Wookieepedia:Sourcing
[20:10] <@Toprawa> Now we're simply adding it to the LG as well
[20:10] <@Toprawa> We're not changing anything.
[20:10] <@Toprawa> We're just putting it in both pages. :P
[20:10] <Cade> Cav's got a good point
[20:10] <@Cal_Jedi> Okay. I understand now. :P
[20:11] <@Toprawa> Cav's question can be saved for the next point in this topic.
[20:11] <@MasterJonathan> Why aren't we voting yet? :P
[20:11] <@Toprawa> We're opening up voting to add this sentence to the LG: "As a general rule, Wookieepedia recommends reserving scroll boxes for reference lists to articles that employ no less than forty to fifty individual references. However, this is by no means a hard figure, and final decisions for the use of scroll boxes should be determined by what best suits each individual article."
[20:11] <@Toprawa> SUPPORT or OPPOSE
[20:11] <@Toprawa> ~open
[20:11] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[20:11] <@MasterJonathan> ~support
[20:11] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[20:11] <Menkooroo> ~support
[20:11] <@Cal_Jedi> ~support
[20:11] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[20:11] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[20:11] <@Toprawa> ~support
[20:11] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[20:11] <@IFYLOFD> ~support
[20:11] <@PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[20:11] <Hunterj> ~support
[20:11] <@PurpleTentacle> Hunterj: Support vote counted.
[20:11] <dogma> ~support
[20:11] <@PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted.
[20:11] <LelalMekha> ~support
[20:11] <@PurpleTentacle> LelalMekha: Support vote counted.
[20:12] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[20:12] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[20:12] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[20:12] <@Xd1358> ~support
[20:12] <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[20:12] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[20:12] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[20:12] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[20:12] <Han_shoots_first> ~support
[20:12] <@PurpleTentacle> Han_shoots_first: Support vote counted.
[20:12] <Cade> ~support
[20:12] <@PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[20:12] <@Toprawa> ~close
[20:12] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[20:12] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[20:12] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 14, Oppose: 0
[20:12] <@Toprawa> Statement will be added to LG.
[20:12] * @Cal_Jedi (~chatzilla@wookieepedia/administrator/Cal-Jedi) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:12] <@Toprawa> Ok, now we're discussing the second point of this topic.
[20:12] <@Toprawa> Adding a clause stating it's ok to manipulate the scroll box size.
[20:12] <@Toprawa> Cav, what was your Q again?
[20:12] <@CavalierOne> Okay, question: if we're changing the scroll box height to accomodate larger reflists, then why not change the actual scroll box settings to produce a larger box in the first place?
[20:13] <@CavalierOne> Basically, why define it arbitarily?
[20:13] <@Toprawa> Because some people may not prefer larger boxes, if I'm understanding you right.
[20:13] <Menkooroo> So that every box is a large box?
[20:13] <@MasterJonathan> Per Cav. Just make it larger to begin with and be done with it.
[20:13] * Cal_Jedi (~chatzilla@wookieepedia/administrator/Cal-Jedi) has joined #wookieepedia
[20:13] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Cal_Jedi
[20:13] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +o Cal_Jedi
[20:13] <@Toprawa> I'm trying to leave it open to preference.
[20:13] <@Toprawa> If we want to make every box a large box, I'm ok with that.
[20:13] <@Toprawa> I just figure many people wouldn't necessarily like that
[20:14] <@CavalierOne> Scroll box is a scroll box. Still have to scroll :P
[20:14] <Cade> Hmmm....
[20:14] <@Toprawa> That's how I always prefer to format my scroll boxes, FWIW
[20:14] <@Toprawa> It makes it larger and easier to read, IMOM
[20:14] <@Toprawa> IMO*
[20:14] <@CavalierOne> Firstly, though, can we change the scroll box settings?
[20:14] <Cade> Maybe not too much bigger
[20:14] <@Toprawa> How do you mean, Cav?
[20:14] * @Cal_Jedi (~chatzilla@wookieepedia/administrator/Cal-Jedi) Quit (Client Quit)
[20:15] <@CavalierOne> Is it a change we can make to the code of the scroll box, or is that mandated by Wikia/MediaWiki settings?
[20:15] <@MasterJonathan> It's a template. We can change it.
[20:15] * Cal_Jedi (~chatzilla@wookieepedia/administrator/Cal-Jedi) has joined #wookieepedia
[20:15] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +o Cal_Jedi
[20:15] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Cal_Jedi
[20:15] <@Toprawa> per MJ
[20:15] <Han_shoots_first> why not just set a minimum and maximum recommended size?
[20:15] <@CavalierOne> Cool
[20:15] <LelalMekha> I prefer the larger boxes too. I think it would be strange to have two coexisting formats, especially when larger ones are more user-friendly.
[20:15] <@Toprawa> It's the same as just changing an image size
[20:15] <@Toprawa> per Lelal
[20:15] <Cade> Same.
[20:16] <@Toprawa> Ok, I'm seeing voiced support for codifying the larger boxes as standard and doing away with the smaller boxes altogether.
[20:16] <@CavalierOne> Excellent. If we're using scroll boxes on a minimum of forty refs, then changing the size for ease of navigation would be ideal.
[20:16] <Karo|away> How much impact on loading a page do all these boxes have for the average viewer's bandwidth or whatever?
[20:16] <@Toprawa> Zero to little, I imagine.
[20:16] <Menkooroo> My browser shows the first 20 appearances in a large scroll box, so we should be good
[20:16] <@MasterJonathan> Though the ability to define a different size should not be removed. I used a much larger size than normal here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Galactic_Civil_War#External_links
[20:16] <Menkooroo> With 40 - 50 as our number
[20:16] <Karo|away> What about firewalls and popup blockers?
[20:17] <@MasterJonathan> Not an issue at all.
[20:17] <@Toprawa> Karo, I never know if you're being serious or not. So please stay on topic if you aren't. :P
[20:17] <Cade> Oh...
[20:17] <@CavalierOne> Per MJ. Set a larger size, but include the possibilty of further increase if needed.
[20:17] * Karo|away is serious.
[20:17] <Menkooroo> yeaaaaghhh
[20:17] <Menkooroo> agreed
[20:17] <Cade> Menk, my timeline is kinda special case
[20:18] <@Toprawa> Ok, let me try and clarify this, then.
[20:18] <Cade> Or do you mean the actual references?
[20:18] <@Toprawa> This is the original proposed statement: Scroll boxes may also be formatted for size depending on what best suits each individual article. This is achieved by changing the regular {{Scroll_box|content={{Reflist}}}} formatting to, for example, {{Scroll_box|height=400px|width=100%|content={{Reflist}}}}."
[20:18] <Menkooroo> Yeah timeline is OK
[20:18] <@Toprawa> How are you guys recommending amending that?
[20:18] <Jaymach> I wouldn't include the content tag
[20:18] <@MasterJonathan> With the implied stipulation that specifying larger sizes should be the exception rather than the rule.
[20:18] <Jaymach> set that to {{{1}}} instead
[20:18] <@Toprawa> Jaymach> What's the difference?
[20:19] <@CavalierOne> Propose changing the size of Template:Scroll box from the current height to a minimum of 400px to produce a larger scroll box.
[20:19] <Jaymach> one means you have to type content=, the other goes with the first thing after the | that isn't codified
[20:19] <@MasterJonathan> Jaymach: that can break the template if {{{1}}} contains an "=".
[20:19] <Jaymach> ...why would you make it contain an =?
[20:19] <@Xd1358> if that's the case, you can use 1= (right?) but I don't see the benefit
[20:19] <@Toprawa> This is the original coding Culator created for me, IIRC. I know nothing about this stuff.
[20:20] <Jaymach> it's currently set to {{{1}}}
[20:20] <Jaymach> adding content= means you'd have to manually edit each and every page the scroll box is used on
[20:20] * @Xd1358 (Xd1358@wookieepedia/administrator/trekweb.Xd1358) has left #wookieepedia ("...")
[20:20] <Jaymach> or get a bot to do it
[20:20] * Xd1358 (Xd1358@wookieepedia/administrator/trekweb.Xd1358) has joined #wookieepedia
[20:20] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Xd1358
[20:20] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +o Xd1358
[20:21] <@Xd1358> wrong button
[20:21] <@MasterJonathan> Either {{{content}}} or {{{1}}} will work
[20:21] <Jaymach> {{{content}}} is useless, is all I'm saying
[20:21] <Jaymach> it means extra work each time you use it
[20:21] <@MasterJonathan> {{{1}}} shows on the template page because it's the default value of {{{content}}}
[20:21] <Jaymach> yeah, because it's set in a silly way at the moment :P
[20:22] <@Toprawa> MasterJonathan> Sorry to digress, but would you mind writing up an example statement for how you'd like to amend the proposed statement?
[20:22] <@Toprawa> per what you said before
[20:22] <@MasterJonathan> Get rid of the statement and just change the size of the scroll box, actually.
[20:23] <@MasterJonathan> In the rare case a different size is needed, an exception can be made case-by-case.
[20:23] <@Toprawa> So you want to set {{Scroll_box|height=400px|width=100%|content={{Reflist}}}} as the standard?
[20:25] <@Toprawa> Ok, I'm confused.
[20:25] <@Toprawa> MasterJonathan?
[20:25] <@CavalierOne> I would say that's right, Tope
[20:25] <@MasterJonathan> As the default size in the template itself. The stuff about how to modify the size can then be relegated to instructions on the template page.
[20:25] <@MasterJonathan> Sorry, I'm a slow typist. :P
[20:25] <@Toprawa> That doesn't address the issue of adding this to WP:S and WP:LG, which I feel should be done as a guideline.
[20:25] <@Toprawa> Ok.
[20:25] <Winterz> oops kinda fell asleep
[20:25] <@Toprawa> First thing first.
[20:26] <@MasterJonathan> The point is people shouldn't be changing the size at will. for the sake of standardization IMO.
[20:26] <@Toprawa> Correct me if I'm wrong: We're voting to make height=400px|width=100% the standard, default size for the scroll box template.
[20:26] <@MasterJonathan> Yes.
[20:26] <@Toprawa> Gotcha.
[20:26] <@Toprawa> SUPPORT or OPPOSE
[20:26] <@Toprawa> ~open
[20:26] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[20:26] <@MasterJonathan> ~support
[20:26] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[20:26] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[20:26] <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[20:26] <@Toprawa> ~support
[20:26] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[20:26] <LelalMekha> ~support
[20:26] <@PurpleTentacle> LelalMekha: Support vote counted.
[20:26] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[20:26] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[20:26] <@Xd1358> ~support
[20:26] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[20:26] <Hunterj> ~support
[20:26] <@PurpleTentacle> Hunterj: Support vote counted.
[20:26] <@IFYLOFD> ~support?
[20:26] <@IFYLOFD> ~support
[20:26] <@PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[20:26] <Han_shoots_first> ~support
[20:26] <@PurpleTentacle> Han_shoots_first: Support vote counted.
[20:26] <Menkooroo> ~support
[20:26] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[20:26] <dogma> ~support
[20:27] <@PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted.
[20:27] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[20:27] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[20:27] <@Cal_Jedi> ~support
[20:27] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[20:27] <Winterz> ~support
[20:27] <@PurpleTentacle> Winterz: Support vote counted.
[20:27] <@Toprawa> ~close
[20:27] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[20:27] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[20:27] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 14, Oppose: 0
[20:27] * Cade (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[20:27] <@Toprawa> Scroll box template will be amended thus.
[20:27] <@Toprawa> Secondly.
[20:27] <@Toprawa> Do we even need to add anything to the LG, then?
[20:28] <@Toprawa> The template itself kind of makes that a moot point, I think.
[20:28] <@MasterJonathan> Nope.
[20:28] <dogma> Let's leave it as it is.
[20:28] <CorellianPremier> I suppose not
[20:28] <@MasterJonathan> Let's move on and end this before midnight here. :P
[20:28] <LelalMekha> Moot point, indeed.
[20:28] <Menkooroo> But we can still make it bigger
[20:28] <Menkooroo> are we OK not codifying that?
[20:28] <@Xd1358> Yeah, it's 3:30AM here, move on!
[20:28] <@MasterJonathan> Yeah.
[20:28] <Jaymach> if you're wanting to limit them being changed, you may want to add something to the LG :P
[20:28] <@Toprawa> I'm ok if we want to. We probably don't need to, though
[20:28] <@CavalierOne> I'm well past midnight
[20:28] <Jaymach> otherwise people are free to change them as they like
[20:29] <@Toprawa> Do we want to add something stating the size may be enlarged, but this should be done as the exception rather than the rule?
[20:29] <@Toprawa> per Jaymach
[20:29] <dogma> On to the next vote.
[20:29] <@MasterJonathan> Tope: we could.
[20:29] <Tyber> Jaymach talking about wiki stuff? :P
[20:29] <@CavalierOne> Tope; no harm in it.
[20:29] <Jaymach> (Tyber): if it helps, I've been drinking quite heavily and only just arrived
[20:29] <Jaymach> so I'm not in my right mind :) I can just type well
[20:30] * dogma ([REDACTED]@wookieepedia/dogma) Quit
[20:30] <@CavalierOne> Jaymach; good man!
[20:30] <Tyber> That explains it. :P
[20:30] * @CavalierOne was drinking during the day
[20:30] <@Toprawa> Ok: "The standard scroll box size may be enlarged for certain articles, but this should be done only in rare cases for presentation purposes." 
[20:30] <@Toprawa> Yes, no?
[20:30] <@CavalierOne> Yes
[20:30] <@MasterJonathan> Yes
[20:30] <@Cal_Jedi> yes
[20:30] <LelalMekha> Yes
[20:30] <CorellianPremier> alright
[20:31] * Cade (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn) has joined #wookieepedia
[20:31] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Cade
[20:31] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +v Cade
[20:31] <Jaymach> you may want to note that any requests to do so should be made on the article talk page or some such
[20:31] * Xd1358 sets mode: -v Cade
[20:31] <@MasterJonathan> For Cade: [20:31:44] Toprawa: Ok: "The standard scroll box size may be enlarged for certain articles, but this should be done only in rare cases for presentation purposes."
[20:31] <@Toprawa> I'm ok with what Jaymach said.
[20:31] <Hunterj> Per Jaymach.
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[20:31] * Cade_Calrayn (~Cade_Calr@[REDACTED]) Quit (Changing host)
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[20:31] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Cade_Calrayn
[20:31] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +v Cade_Calrayn
[20:31] <@Toprawa> Ok: "The standard scroll box size may be enlarged for certain articles, but this should be done only in rare cases for presentation purposes. Requests to do so should be made on the article's talk page."
[20:31] * Cade (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[20:31] * Cade_Calrayn is now known as Cade
[20:31] <Jaymach> "or some such" :P
[20:31] <@Toprawa> haha :P
[20:31] * Xd1358 sets mode: -v Cade
[20:31] <@MasterJonathan> The FAN page could work as well.
[20:32] <Jaymach> "or article review pages"?
[20:32] * Hanzo ([REDACTED]@gateway/web/qwebirc/irc.wikia.com/[REDACTED]) has joined #wookieepedia
[20:32] <@MasterJonathan> Yeah.
[20:32] <Jaymach> that covers the CAs and GAs as well
[20:32] * Cade|iPad (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn) has joined #wookieepedia
[20:32] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Cade|iPad
[20:32] <Hunterj> Yes.
[20:32] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +v Cade|iPad
[20:32] <@Toprawa> Ok: "The standard scroll box size may be enlarged for certain articles, but this should be done only in rare cases for presentation purposes. Requests to do so should be made on the article's talk page or article review pages."
[20:32] <Menkooroo> perfect
[20:32] * Xd1358 sets mode: -v Cade|iPad
[20:32] <@MasterJonathan> Yes. Vote and get this over with. :P
[20:32] <LelalMekha> Sounds good
[20:32] <@Toprawa> Ok, we're opening up voting to add this statement to the LG and WP:S sections on scroll boxes.
[20:32] <Hanzo> Agreed.
[20:32] <@Toprawa> SUPPORT or OPPOSE
[20:32] <@Toprawa> ~open
[20:32] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[20:32] <@MasterJonathan> ~support
[20:32] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[20:32] <Cade> ~support
[20:32] <@PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[20:32] <Menkooroo> ~support
[20:32] <@Toprawa> ~support
[20:32] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[20:32] <LelalMekha> ~support
[20:32] <@PurpleTentacle> LelalMekha: Support vote counted.
[20:32] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[20:32] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[20:32] <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[20:32] <@IFYLOFD> ~support
[20:32] <@PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[20:32] <Hunterj> ~support
[20:32] <@PurpleTentacle> Hunterj: Support vote counted.
[20:32] <@Xd1358> ~support
[20:32] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[20:32] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[20:32] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[20:33] <Hanzo> ~support
[20:33] <@PurpleTentacle> Hanzo: Support vote counted.
[20:33] <@Toprawa> ~close
[20:33] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[20:33] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[20:33] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 11, Oppose: 0
[20:33] <@Toprawa> RATIFIED!
[20:33] <Cade> :P
[20:33] <Menkooroo> We spent 50 minutes on scroll boxes. :S
[20:33] <@Toprawa> XD
[20:33] <@Toprawa> Moving onto item 8!
[20:33] <@Toprawa> MJ has the floor!
[20:33] <Cade> I was worried you guys would get to the good stuff before I got back
[20:33] <@Xd1358> Jesus christ
[20:33] * Xd1358 sets mode: +m
[20:34] <@MasterJonathan> Currently the LG specifies that the {{Majorspoiler}} tag goes below all other banner templates. It seems to me, though, that if we're telling the reader that "you might not want to read this article", that should be the first thing we show them. Therefore, I propose to move the "Spoiler tag" section of the LG up to between the "Otheruses or Youmay tags" and "Maintenance templates" sections. Note that if this passes, this will al
[20:34] <@MasterJonathan> so affect Menk's OOU LG, but it should be discussed separately as the change should only be made to both or neither for consistency's sake.
[20:34] <@MasterJonathan> That's it.
[20:34] * Xd1358 sets mode: -m
[20:34] <@Toprawa> Floor's open
[20:34] <Menkooroo> Simple and a good idea. Support.
[20:34] <Exiledjedi> Sounds good
[20:34] <Cade> Seems self-explanatory and obvious.
[20:34] <@CavalierOne> Indeed
[20:34] <@Xd1358> yeah
[20:34] <@Toprawa> Yeah, good stuff
[20:34] <Cade> Sounds good.
[20:34] <@Toprawa> SUPPORT or OPPOSE
[20:34] <@Toprawa> ~open
[20:34] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[20:34] <Menkooroo> One vote for both layour guides
[20:34] <Cade> ~support
[20:34] <@PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[20:34] <@Xd1358> ~support
[20:34] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[20:34] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[20:34] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[20:34] <@MasterJonathan> ~support
[20:34] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[20:34] <Menkooroo> ~support
[20:34] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[20:34] <LelalMekha> ~support
[20:34] <@PurpleTentacle> LelalMekha: Support vote counted.
[20:34] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[20:34] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[20:34] <@Toprawa> ~support
[20:34] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[20:34] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[20:34] <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[20:35] <Hanzo> ~support
[20:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Hanzo: Support vote counted.
[20:35] <Jaymach> I've only just remembered this is a Mofference...I need sleep
[20:35] <@Toprawa> ~close
[20:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[20:35] <Hunterj> ~support
[20:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Hunterj: There is no open vote on this channel.
[20:35] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[20:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 10, Oppose: 0
[20:35] <@Toprawa> 11, counting Hunterj :P
[20:35] <Menkooroo> And that was for both layout guides?
[20:35] <@Toprawa> Item ratified.
[20:35] <Hunterj> Thanks. :)
[20:35] <@Toprawa> Menk> Yes
[20:35] <@Toprawa> We could vote again for the other one, if anyone objects. :P
[20:36] <@Xd1358> Nah
[20:36] <@MasterJonathan> Nah
[20:36] <@Toprawa> MOVING ON! :P
[20:36] <@Toprawa> Item 9.
[20:36] <LelalMekha> Nope
[20:36] <@Toprawa> Toprawa has the floor.
[20:36] * Xd1358 sets mode: +m
[20:36] <@Toprawa> Copy and pasting:
[20:36] <@Toprawa> Closing a Requests for user rights loophole. I noticed recently a certain loophole that exists in our WP:RFU procedure that I feel needs addressing. Currently, our stated "Requirements" for a successful Rollback, Administrator, or Bureaucrat nomination stipulates that a nominee must accumulate a 2/3rds supermajority of supporting admins and users, respectively (3/4ths for BC). However, this...
[20:36] <@Toprawa> ...does not require any certain number of support votes, only that the required supermajority of voting users be obtained. What this means is, as long as at least one administrator and one regular user votes on a nomination with no opposing votes, that satisfies the supermajority requirement. In other words, someone could conceivably be elected to a Rollback, Admin, or BC position with a...
[20:36] <@Toprawa> ...whopping total of two support votes. As unlikely as that scenario is, that doesn't seem befitting of what is intended to be a community-approval vote, particularly when our other community votes (Consensus Track and Trash Compactor, namely) are subject to our Wookieepedia:Consensus rules, which require a minimum number of 10 people voting for consensus to be achieved. So, I simply propose...
[20:36] <@Toprawa> ...that we add a single statement to each of the Rollback, Admin, and BC "Requirements" lists for nomination to reflect WP:CON and to be more befitting of full community approval: "At least ten eligible Wookieepedians must contribute a vote."
[20:36] <@Toprawa> Floor is open.
[20:36] * Xd1358 sets mode: -m
[20:37] <Menkooroo> Consensus rules applying to all consensus procedures. Support.
[20:37] <Cade> Sounds good.
[20:37] <Exiledjedi> Sounds good
[20:37] <@MasterJonathan> Per Menk.
[20:37] <LelalMekha> Okay
[20:37] <Jaymach> but what if we all die?! :P
[20:37] <@Toprawa> Then Wookieepedia dies with us. :P
[20:37] <Cade> XD
[20:37] <@Toprawa> Opening up voting. SUPPORT or OPPOSE.
[20:37] <Cade> The anons will feast on the remians.
[20:37] <LelalMekha> Let the whole world die if I die
[20:37] <@Toprawa> ~open
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[20:37] <@Xd1358> ~support
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[20:37] <Cade> ~support
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[20:37] <@Toprawa> ~support
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[20:37] <Menkooroo> ~support
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[20:37] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[20:37] <LelalMekha> ~support
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> LelalMekha: Support vote counted.
[20:37] <Hunterj> ~support
[20:37] <@MasterJonathan> ~support
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> Hunterj: Support vote counted.
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[20:37] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[20:37] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[20:38] <@IFYLOFD> ~support 
[20:38] <@PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[20:38] <Jaymach> I feel a caveat should be added stating "In the event of mass community death, requirement is null and void."
[20:38] <Cade> XD
[20:38] <@Toprawa> ~close
[20:38] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[20:38] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[20:38] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 11, Oppose: 0
[20:38] <Hanzo> ~support
[20:38] <@PurpleTentacle> Hanzo: There is no open vote on this channel.
[20:38] <@Toprawa> Hanzo is 12.
[20:38] <Jaymach> slow Hanzo is slow
[20:38] <@Toprawa> Try to get your votes in, people
[20:38] <@Toprawa> WP:RFU amendment ratified.
[20:39] <@Toprawa> Moving onto item 10.
[20:39] <Jaymach> no caveat? aw
[20:39] <@Toprawa> Toprawa still has the floor.
[20:39] <@Toprawa> Nah. :P
[20:39] * Xd1358 sets mode: +m
[20:39] <@Toprawa> Copy and paste:
[20:39] <@Toprawa> More WP:RFU. Looking into this a bit more closely, one could, as noted in the previous topic, conceivably be elected to an Admin or BC position with a single admin support vote, provided none oppose. That, too, does not seem befitting of a community-approval vote, particularly when we publicly recognize administrators as being leaders of the community. If someone is going to be elected an...
[20:39] <@Toprawa> ...administrator, it only makes sense that they should earn the support of their fellow elected administrators. I propose here that a simple minimum number of admin support votes be required to earn adminship or BCship. Depending on the success of the previous voting item, the following would be added to the "Requirements" lists for Admin nominations: "At least ten eligible Wookieepedians...
[20:39] <@Toprawa> ...must contribute a vote, three of which must be administrators." Likewise, the following would be added to BC nominations: "At least ten eligible Wookieepedians must contribute a vote, five of which must be administrators." When you think about it, three and five really amount to very little, considering we have, at the moment, 23 administrators. That would be 13% and 21% of the admin...
[20:39] <@Toprawa> ...roster, respectively, required to become an admin or a BC. I think those are very fair figures.
[20:39] <@Toprawa> Floor is open.
[20:39] * Xd1358 sets mode: -m
[20:39] <Menkooroo> At least three admins always vote anyway. Support.
[20:39] <@Toprawa> Indeed.
[20:39] <Exiledjedi> Good
[20:40] <@Toprawa> It's basically a given requirement
[20:40] <Cade> So, same thing as previous?
[20:40] <LelalMekha> Alright
[20:40] * Cade|iPad (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:40] <@Toprawa> It's not the same thing
[20:40] <@MasterJonathan> Go for it.
[20:40] <@Toprawa> But close
[20:40] <Cade> Ah, yeah
[20:40] <@Xd1358> +1
[20:40] <Cade> Admins. Okay.
[20:40] <@Toprawa> Opening up voting. SUPPORT or OPPOSE.
[20:40] <@Toprawa> ~open
[20:40] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[20:40] <@Xd1358> ~support
[20:40] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[20:40] <Cade> ~support
[20:40] <@PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted.
[20:40] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[20:40] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[20:40] <Hanzo> ~support
[20:40] <@PurpleTentacle> Hanzo: Support vote counted.
[20:40] <Menkooroo> ~support
[20:40] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[20:40] <@MasterJonathan> ~support
[20:40] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[20:40] <LelalMekha> ~support
[20:40] <@PurpleTentacle> LelalMekha: Support vote counted.
[20:40] <Hunterj> ~support
[20:40] <@PurpleTentacle> Hunterj: Support vote counted.
[20:40] * @Cal_Jedi (~chatzilla@wookieepedia/administrator/Cal-Jedi) Quit (Quit: http://heavenmusic.wikia.com/wiki/LifeMusic_Wiki:Plan_of_Salvation)
[20:40] <@IFYLOFD> ~support
[20:40] <@Toprawa> ~support
[20:40] <@PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[20:40] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[20:40] <CorellianPremier> ~support
[20:40] <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted.
[20:40] <@IFYLOFD> Damn, we'll never break !peak
[20:41] <Jaymach> I think Tope is planning to kill off the Wookieepedia admins to take sole ownership of the site and these rules are just his way of securing his power.
[20:41] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[20:41] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[20:41] <@MasterJonathan> XD
[20:41] <@Toprawa> You never can tell. :P
[20:41] * @IFYLOFD retreats to his bunker
[20:41] <Cade> Culator could have seized control years ago
[20:41] * Cade|iPad (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn) has joined #wookieepedia
[20:41] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Cade|iPad
[20:41] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +v Cade|iPad
[20:41] <@Toprawa> ~close
[20:41] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[20:41] * Cal_Jedi (~chatzilla@wookieepedia/administrator/Cal-Jedi) has joined #wookieepedia
[20:41] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Cal_Jedi
[20:41] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +o Cal_Jedi
[20:41] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[20:41] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 12, Oppose: 0
[20:41] * MasterJonathan sets mode: -v Cade|iPad
[20:41] <@Toprawa> WP:RFU amendment ratified.
[20:41] <@Toprawa> LAST ONE.
[20:41] <Menkooroo> Hooh boy
[20:41] * @Xd1358 yawns
[20:41] <Tyber> Ping Karo|away
[20:41] <@Toprawa> I consider the Mofference effectively closed at this point, with the discussion of this item, since this is very open-ended and could on for a very long time.