Wookieepedia:Mofferences/Log/2009 January 25

[18:00]	<Imperialles>	Right. The Mofference begins.
[18:00]	<ChackJadson>	Woot!
[18:00]	=-=	Mode #wookieepedia +v NaruHina by Graestan
[18:00]	<Ataru>	Psst. Dark Greetings.
[18:00]	<NaruHina>	Right on time
[18:00]	<Graestan>	DARK GREETINGS
[18:00]	<Imperialles>	First agenda item, proposed by Graestan, is to improve the welcome template.
[18:00]	<Mecenarylord>	Dark Greetings
[18:00]	<NaruHina>	Bright Greetings, all
[18:00]	<Ataru>	FYI, stay on topic or be booted.
[18:00]	<Ataru>	Period.
[18:00]	<Toprawa>	Change how?
[18:00]	<Graestan>	http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Template:W
[18:00]	<Imperialles>	An opening statement, Grae?
[18:01]	<Graestan>	I think it should have more policies linked.
[18:01]	<Ataru>	Like which ones?
[18:01]	<Graestan>	I think it's about time we rewrite, or at least add to, the welcome template. It does not point to policies I consider important for new users to look at, such as Wookieepedia:Attribution, and also links to things that perhaps could be omitted for newbies, like Senate Hall. I propose that ideas be brought forward as to what should be included, and perhaps proposals for a new look to this...
[18:01]	<Graestan>	...template itself (I'm thinking something sleeker and more bold). Graestan(Talk) 14:50, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
[18:01]	<Mecenarylord>	Agreed
[18:01]	<Enochf>	It should be harsh and brutal. [Redacted by administration]
[18:01]	<Imperialles>	I personally think the current one looks quite bad.
[18:01]	<Graestan>	Pretty much anything we have to point at for new users.
[18:01]	<Toprawa>	I wish we had a preliminary Fanon warning for all.
[18:01]	<Gonk|Busy>	Per Grae and Imp.
[18:01]	<Graestan>	And I am *SICK* of Wormie on there.
[18:01]	<Gonk|Busy>	and TOpe
[18:01]	<Ataru>	Per Tope on that.
[18:01]	<GrandMoffTranner>	Definitely need a preliminary fanon warning.
[18:01]	<Mecenarylord>	Yeah
[18:01]	<Imperialles>	Back in ye olden times I was actually creating a tutorial of sorts for new users
[18:01]	<Graestan>	2005?
[18:02]	<Ataru>	lol
[18:02]	<Graestan>	Do you have any of that data left?
[18:02]	<Imperialles>	Which woiuld be better than a list of links, I believe
[18:02]	<Imperialles>	2006, maybe
[18:02]	<Mecenarylord>	We should put a image of Chewie
[18:02]	<Imperialles>	Yes
[18:02]	<ChackJadson>	I don't mind the Luke image, FWIW
[18:02]	<Imperialles>	http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Tutorial
[18:02]	<NaruHina>	Per Merc
[18:02]	<GrandMoffTranner>	Do we even need an image?
[18:02]	<Gonk|Busy>	Chewie with his arms up, maybe.
[18:02]	<Toprawa>	I liked the Luke image when there was that caption - "Luke Skywalker welcomes you, etc."
[18:02]	<Imperialles>	It's scewed up these days, though
[18:02]	<Toprawa>	No caption is very bland
[18:02]	<NaruHina>	Yes
[18:02]	<Graestan>	Star Wars was overly Luke-centric for twenty years. It's someone else's turn.
[18:02]	<Imperialles>	And it's very bare bones
[18:02]	<Ataru>	Yeah, the caption is needed.
[18:02]	<Mecenarylord>	per Gonl
[18:02]	<Jedimca0|Busy>	Wookieepedia... image or Chewie... makes sense...
[18:02]	<Enochf>	We could make an informative comic or instruction video about Johnny Fanon Gets Banned
[18:03]	<Mecenarylord>	*per Gonk
[18:03]	<NaruHina>	It is better than just a list
[18:03]	<ChackJadson>	Agree that caption is needed
[18:03]	<Ataru>	Enochf: Let's stick to the welcome template for now.
[18:03]	=-=	Jedimca0|Busy is now known as Jedimca0
[18:03]	<Toprawa>	This is irrelevant
[18:03]	<Imperialles>	Nice idea, Enoch Forrester
[18:03]	-->|	Soresu has joined #wookieepedia
[18:03]	<Toprawa>	The image isn't the point :P
[18:03]	=-=	Mode #wookieepedia +v Soresu by Graestan
[18:03]	<Ataru>	Let's discuss the links and stuff on the welcome template, please.
[18:03]	<Mecenarylord>	just a suggestion
[18:03]	<Soresu>	No way! Parental time controls set in just as we start, so I have to use GGI:IRC
[18:03]	<R_F>	ugh
[18:03]	<R_F>	http://www.starwars.com/video/view/000754.html
[18:03]	<R_F>	Narglatches
[18:03]	|<--	Soresu has left irc.freenode.net (Client Quit)
[18:03]	<R_F>	WTF
[18:03]	<Ataru>	R_F: Stay on topic, please.
[18:03]	<Graestan>	RF
[18:03]	<Toprawa>	Can we focus?
[18:03]	<Imperialles>	Indeed. I don't think anyone could really object to adding more links to the template.
[18:04]	<NaruHina>	Replace the SH link wiht a KB link
[18:04]	<R_F>	oops, sorry
[18:04]	<Mecenarylord>	nope
[18:04]	<Imperialles>	More help = less work for admins = happier admins
[18:04]	<Enochf>	Already linked to MOS, Things to Do, WP:NOT...
[18:04]	<Mecenarylord>	Yeah
[18:04]	<Graestan>	Shall we vote on just letting Imp and I work it out, or do we have to vote on each addition?
[18:04]	<NaruHina>	How about the Userpage policy
[18:04]	<Toprawa>	I agree the Attribution link should be on there
[18:04]	<Toprawa>	That's pretty key
[18:04]	<Graestan>	per naru
[18:04]	<Ataru>	I think the fanon warning and an image caption would be good additions. Maybe a different image.
[18:04]	<Ataru>	User page is on there.
[18:04]	<Ataru>	(already)
[18:04]	<Gonk|Busy>	let's not vote on each addition. Let's talk-page any objections about each addition.
[18:04]	<Grunny>	per ataru
[18:05]	<NaruHina>	Then why they don't look completely illudes me
[18:05]	<Enochf>	I thought maybe we had a list of additions, and we'd thumbs up/thumbs down while we're here
[18:05]	<Jedimca0>	going over every detail now would probably take to long. :/
[18:05]	<Imperialles>	In my opinion, discussing every addition/change here is a bit specific. I vote we let Graestan head the committee. I will help out.
[18:05]	<GrandMoffTranner>	Agreed.
[18:05]	<Toprawa>	per Imp
[18:05]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Works for me.
[18:05]	<Jedimca0>	per Imp
[18:05]	<Enochf>	'K
[18:05]	<Grunny>	agreed
[18:05]	<Gonk|Busy>	Looks like we don't have that list, Enochf. (Also: "Whyy don't they look...")
[18:05]	<Ataru>	This is something that "Boot to SH or CT" seems to work best on.
[18:05]	<NaruHina>	Take out the visit in the IRC tidbit
[18:06]	<Graestan>	I am to compile a list of what people want to see on there and do it; anyone with issues can use the talk page.
[18:06]	<Ataru>	Sounds good.
[18:06]	<Imperialles>	So, with everyone's blessing, I'd like to make this a non-CT issue
[18:06]	<Cull_Tremayne>	What? Booting to CT makes the whole topic worthless.
[18:06]	<Imperialles>	Let's just do it, eh?
[18:06]	<NaruHina>	Per Grae
[18:06]	<Gonk|Busy>	per Imp and Cull
[18:06]	<Ataru>	Heh, fine then.
[18:06]	<Graestan>	Those of us who care about the Mofference should use it to make firm decisions.
[18:06]	<Enochf>	But a fanon warning will be included
[18:06]	<Graestan>	Of course. ;)
[18:07]	|<--	Mecenarylord has left irc.freenode.net ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
[18:07]	<Imperialles>	Proposal: Agree that changes can be made; the specifics can be discussed later. No CT required on this trivial issue.
[18:07]	<ChackJadson>	Yeah
[18:07]	<Toprawa>	Does this mean we can forego fanon warnings before block? ;)
[18:07]	<NaruHina>	True
[18:07]	<Ataru>	Toprawa: Probably not.
[18:07]	<NaruHina>	Probably
[18:07]	<Toprawa>	haha
[18:07]	<Enochf>	Not
[18:07]	<NaruHina>	Fine
[18:07]	<GrandMoffTranner>	Per Imp. Unfortunately not per Toprawa.
[18:07]	<Ataru>	Let's . . . STAY ON TOPIC please.
[18:08]	<Imperialles>	Any objections to letting this slip past CT?
[18:08]	<Ataru>	Nope.
[18:08]	<AdmirableAckbar>	no
[18:08]	<GrandMoffTranner>	None from me.
[18:08]	<NaruHina>	No
[18:08]	<Enochf>	So be it
[18:08]	<Cylka>	no
[18:08]	<Grunny>	no
[18:08]	<Tyber>	no
[18:08]	<Ataru>	Let's move on.
[18:08]	<Imperialles>	Wookieepedia has spoken. Next item.
[18:08]	<Enochf>	Guilty
[18:08]	<Imperialles>	Admin age.
[18:08]	<Graestan>	I really don't see why a full year and a half or two years of valid contribution cannot be a substitute for the age requirement. Admin age has never played into admin problems before, and I don't believe anyone who is not qualified would be elected by majorities of both user and admin votes.
[18:08]	=-=	Ataru has changed the topic to “Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: CTs inbound - Channel status: This is indeed the Mofference. Topic is: admin age - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: [Redacted by administration]”
[18:08]	<NaruHina>	18+
[18:08]	<Imperialles>	Graestan proposes we lower the admin age a bit.
[18:08]	<AdmirableAckbar>	I'm all for this, but I do have one reservation that's worth considering.
[18:09]	<Graestan>	My proposal would NOT be lowering the age.
[18:09]	<Graestan>	It would be a substitution of experience for age.
[18:09]	<Imperialles>	My bad.
[18:09]	<ChackJadson>	In favor of waiving the requirement for users aged 16 0r 17 with at least 18 months of service. No lower than 16, though
[18:09]	<Toprawa>	Let Graestan explain, please.
[18:09]	<ChackJadson>	Graestan probably has an idea, though
[18:09]	-->|	Mecenarylord has joined #wookieepedia
[18:09]	<Enochf>	But teenagers are filled with icky hormones
[18:09]	<Tyber>	16 would do
[18:09]	<Graestan>	Those with two years' experience of quality contribution would have it waived.
[18:09]	<Tyber>	indeed
[18:09]	-->|	Soresu has joined #wookieepedia
[18:09]	<Imperialles>	Sounds good to me.
[18:09]	=-=	Mode #wookieepedia +v Soresu by Ataru
[18:09]	<Soresu>	Thank god I know how to hack my dad's account
[18:09]	<Toprawa>	Users under 18 can be eligible for a vote with 2 years of site experience.
[18:09]	<Graestan>	I do /not/ believe an unqualified person would be elected.
[18:10]	<Imperialles>	In any case, the chance of someone not qualified to be elected is slim to none.
[18:10]	<Enochf>	Any second they might burst out crying, go emo,

[redacted by administration]

[18:10]	<Toprawa>	per Imp
[18:10]	<Graestan>	I think this is a matter of progress, where pure ageism can be put aside and experience be considered instead.
[18:10]	<ChackJadson>	2 years is even better, IMO
[18:10]	<Enochf>	Eh
[18:10]	<GrandMoffTranner>	Per Grae.
[18:10]	<Cull_Tremayne>	Eh
[18:10]	<Imperialles>	Any counterpoints?
[18:10]	<Graestan>	Two years was my idea.
[18:10]	<AdmirableAckbar>	I have one. Sort of.
[18:10]	<Imperialles>	Shoot.
[18:10]	<Tyber>	quite a long time, isn't it?
[18:10]	<Enochf>	I say keep the age requirement as is <shrug>
[18:11]	<Graestan>	Look at our 15-year-olds who are good users with one year's experience.
[18:11]	<Tyber>	per enochf
[18:11]	<Imperialles>	Your main argument is a shrug? :p
[18:11]	<Graestan>	This would be an exception.
[18:11]	<Toprawa>	heh
[18:11]	|<--	Mecenarylord has left irc.freenode.net (Client Quit)
[18:11]	<Graestan>	Not a change entirely.
[18:11]	<Soresu>	I say no younger than 14 or 15 though
[18:11]	<Cull_Tremayne>	I'm with Enochf here. I see no real reason to change it, but no real solid argument the other way for me.
[18:11]	<Graestan>	Look at the admin problems we've had.
[18:11]	<Graestan>	Look at my blunders; I am by no means a young man.
[18:11]	-->|	Muuurgh|AFK has joined #wookieepedia
[18:11]	=-=	Mode #wookieepedia +v Muuurgh|AFK by Nuku-Nuku
[18:11]	<Ataru>	I don't see a problem with this exception. I just don't have any enthusiasm for the idea.
[18:11]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Parents have control over younger users where adults generally have the freedom to use the internet if they wish.
[18:12]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Ergo, parents can suddenly step in.
[18:12]	<Graestan>	Some parents still control their kids at 23.
[18:12]	<Imperialles>	Indeed. The problematic admins we have suffered thus far have by no means been young men by this site's standards.
[18:12]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Which, afaik, has happened to one established young editor.
[18:12]	<Enochf>	Dangnabbit, you youngsters
[18:12]	<ChackJadson>	Meh. Minor issue, IMO, or even nonexistent
[18:12]	<Graestan>	If they're goof enough to be elected, what is the harm?
[18:12]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Grae: right. And if it hasn't happened in two years, then it's unlikely to.
[18:12]	<Graestan>	good*
[18:12]	<AdmirableAckbar>	It's just worth considering.
[18:12]	<Tyber>	i think admins aren't elected for fooling around
[18:12]	<Gonk|Busy>	Worst case scenario, they go idle for a couple years, then come back when they move out ^_^
[18:12]	<Graestan>	Look at Chack.
[18:12]	<Graestan>	Look at Acky.
[18:13]	<Graestan>	They are both ready, or almost, now.
[18:13]	<ChackJadson>	Thank you, Grae :)
[18:13]	<Jedimca0>	Per Graestan
[18:13]	<Graestan>	Why do we wait for such people?
[18:13]	<NaruHina>	Teens are in school
[18:13]	<Graestan>	Tranner.
[18:13]	<Tyber>	yes, per graestan
[18:13]	<Ataru>	We have several admins who are college students, NaruHina.
[18:13]	<Cull_Tremayne>	We waited for Jorrel though.
[18:13]	<Ataru>	School has nothing to do with it.
[18:13]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Well, I'm not here two years... :P
[18:13]	<Graestan>	If the current admins already don't work on the site enough, why restrict ourselves?
[18:13]	<NaruHina>	Therefore haviing a workload that can make it somewhat hard to work on the wook consistantly
[18:13]	<Jedimca0>	NaruHina: not just teens are in school...
[18:13]	<Graestan>	Cull: I tried last year for Jorrel specifically. ;)
[18:13]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Naru: I don't see that.
[18:13]	<NaruHina>	Yes but in college many things are due weeks later
[18:14]	<Ataru>	Graestan: Well . . . like I said, I just don't see a need for this.
[18:14]	<Cull_Tremayne>	I just am tentative to adopt this solely so that we can adopt a few good users into the admin fold.
[18:14]	<Toprawa>	Right, we tried /not/ waiting for Jorrel
[18:14]	<Ataru>	I'd abstain on this sort of thing.
[18:14]	<AdmirableAckbar>	If they edit the site consistently for two years, then they've obviously found a way around that.
[18:14]	<Graestan>	I have a career, and I have plenty of time. I am salary and I work up to 70 hours per week.
[18:14]	<Imperialles>	Per Cull
[18:14]	<Toprawa>	I think the important thing is is that no one is going to be elected who really doesn't deserve it.
[18:14]	<Toprawa>	This is really to let people in who /do/ deserve it
[18:14]	<Graestan>	Indeed.
[18:14]	<Gonk|Busy>	Per Tope. We filter well.
[18:14]	<Imperialles>	2 years of quality contributions does account for something
[18:14]	<Graestan>	Who is in favor of this 2-year exception?
[18:15]	<Graestan>	I am.
[18:15]	<ChackJadson>	I am
[18:15]	<Imperialles>	These people are well integrated members, not random kids
[18:15]	<Toprawa>	I am
[18:15]	<Imperialles>	I am.
[18:15]	<AdmirableAckbar>	I am.
[18:15]	<Soresu>	I am
[18:15]	<Gonk|Busy>	I am, I said
[18:15]	<Jedimca0>	I support this.
[18:15]	<Grunny>	I am
[18:15]	<Cylka>	yes
[18:15]	<Tyber>	I agree
[18:15]	<GrandMoffTranner>	I am.
[18:15]	<NaruHina>	Would that disqualify any current admins
[18:15]	* Enochf	votes present
[18:15]	<Imperialles>	No, Naru
[18:15]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Naru: no, because it only applies to under 18s.
[18:15]	<NaruHina>	OK
[18:15]	<Ataru>	Opposition votes?
[18:15]	<Graestan>	Who is opposed?
[18:16]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Anyone else would only need 6 month's contributions. Correct?
[18:16]	<ChackJadson>	Naru: The youngest current admin is 20, I think
[18:16]	<ChackJadson>	Wait, one question.
[18:16]	<Imperialles>	Jorrel is 18, no?
[18:16]	<Cull_Tremayne>	Is there any admin who hasn't been on the site for 2 years?
[18:16]	<ChackJadson>	My bad. Jorrel is 18
[18:16]	<Toprawa>	Cull> Me
[18:16]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Cav.
[18:16]	<Ataru>	This is not relevant, though.
[18:16]	<Ataru>	They're over 18.
[18:16]	<ChackJadson>	Is there still a cutoff limit? Like, will we go below 16 for users with 2 years experience?
[18:16]	<Graestan>	Exactly.
[18:17]	<Ataru>	The exception deals with, IIRC, 16 and 17 year olds.
[18:17]	<Graestan>	No cutoff.
[18:17]	<Ataru>	*NO* cutoff? O.o
[18:17]	<ChackJadson>	I support not going under 16 ever
[18:17]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Well, no under 13s presumably.
[18:17]	<Graestan>	Look at Soresu. He's very new, and he might be 15 3/4 at his two-years.
[18:17]	<Ataru>	Oppose, for COPPA reasons.
[18:17]	<Toprawa>	I think the cutoff is irrelevant - again, no one is going to make admin who doesn't truly deserve it
[18:17]	<Toprawa>	we'll laugh them off the site :P
[18:17]	<Jedimca0>	but... the chance that an 11 year old becomes an admin is very small...
[18:17]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Per Tope.
[18:17]	<NaruHina>	No -16 yr olds
[18:17]	<Jedimca0>	I mean... who would nominate and support them?
[18:17]	<ChackJadson>	Meh, yeah, per Tope
[18:17]	<Graestan>	It's /pure ageism,/ in my estimation.
[18:17]	<GrandMoffTranner>	Per Toprawa.
[18:18]	<Graestan>	Wookieepedia should be more of a meritocracy.
[18:18]	<Graestan>	PerJedimca0
[18:18]	<Tyber>	and that from you? ;)
[18:18]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Grae: this would only apply to over 13s per COPPA, would it?
[18:18]	<Graestan>	Who would nominate little ones?
[18:18]	<Ataru>	For legal and professional reasons, we also don't need 15 year old admins, Grae.
[18:18]	<Soresu>	Yes COPPA is an issue
[18:18]	<Graestan>	Acky: Yes.
[18:18]	<Cull_Tremayne>	Ageism will keep the local teenagers in line. Ageism and fear of this battlestation.
[18:18]	<Graestan>	COPPA is 13 and below
[18:18]	<AdmirableAckbar>	There's nothing legal about it, Ataru, with 15 year olds.
[18:18]	<Tyber>	i would say 16
[18:18]	<Ataru>	It's hard to take a website seriously when they're run by young teenagers.
[18:18]	<AdmirableAckbar>	*illegal :/.
[18:18]	<Toprawa>	Not if they're mature and responsible
[18:18]	<Ataru>	No offense to all our young contributors who do a lot of work around her.
[18:18]	<Imperialles>	It's run by the bureaucrats. Admins are privileged users.
[18:19]	<Toprawa>	Which is exactly what this is geared toward
[18:19]	<Ataru>	*here.
[18:19]	<Jedimca0>	Per Toprawa
[18:19]	<Glaug-Eldare>	^
[18:19]	<NaruHina>	The Rebel Alliance Wook is a bad idea
[18:19]	<Graestan>	We will be taken seriously because of our long-standing democratic-based system.
[18:19]	<Imperialles>	Sorry, that was misphrased. :p
[18:19]	<Toprawa>	This is designed to reward the mature and responsible youngsters who have proven over 2 years that they have what it takes
[18:19]	<Glaug-Eldare>	taken seriously by whom?
[18:19]	<Imperialles>	Per Toprawa.
[18:19]	<Toprawa>	By you, Glaug
[18:19]	<ChackJadson>	Glaug: The SW community as a whole
[18:19]	<Ataru>	I'd be far happier if there was an age floor.
[18:19]	=-=	Muuurgh|AFK is now known as Muuurgh
[18:20]	<GrandMoffTranner>	Again, per Tope.
[18:20]	<Ataru>	Better safe than screwed, IMO.
[18:20]	<Toprawa>	I could go with no younger than 15.
[18:20]	<AdmirableAckbar>	is the average reader who the site is created for going to know or care? I doubt it.
[18:20]	<Graestan>	What is the vote count?
[18:20]	<Gonk|Busy>	In effect, the floor is 13, because once someone says "I'm 13"... that's it.
[18:20]	<Graestan>	Per Gonk.
[18:20]	<Toprawa>	per Gonk
[18:20]	<Jedimca0>	indeed
[18:20]	<Bllasae>	...Gonk...
[18:20]	<GrandMoffTranner>	Per Gonk
[18:20]	<Cylka>	per Gonk
[18:20]	<Imperialles>	What Gonk said.
[18:20]	* Ataru	is still opposed to the idea, but I'm not sure of the vote count.
[18:20]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Isn't it 15 in effect, then? Unless they don't reveal their age...
[18:20]	<Glaug-Eldare>	pff, it's a star wars wiki, the best one around. whether you 'take it seriously' or not, as a collection of referenced information, its reputation precedes it
[18:20]	<AdmirableAckbar>	when they join
[18:21]	<Gonk|Busy>	yeah, Acky
[18:21]	<Bllasae>	QDB that
[18:21]	<ChackJadson>	VC is something like 11-1, if Ataru votes against
[18:21]	<Graestan>	All opposed, please just say "no" to my initial proposal so we can get a count.
[18:21]	<Bllasae>	is it 15 or 16?
[18:21]	<Bllasae>	or 13?
[18:21]	<ChackJadson>	No limit
[18:21]	<Toprawa>	The cut off is 13 by default
[18:21]	<Bllasae>	ah
[18:21]	<Ataru>	No.
[18:21]	<AdmirableAckbar>	13, but in effect it would be 15 in most cases.
[18:21]	<Soresu>	I say 13
[18:21]	<Graestan>	It's 15 in effect, per Gonk and Acky's logic.
[18:21]	<Bllasae>	it should be like 15
[18:22]	<NaruHina>	I say 15
[18:22]	<Toprawa>	I agree 15
[18:22]	<Jedimca0>	The thing that matters is, that no one will support a nomination unless the person (if they are under 18) is mature enough and has been active for two days.
[18:22]	* Ataru	would be fine with 15.
[18:22]	<Soresu>	Agree then
[18:22]	<Gonk|Busy>	You'd have to be a pretty sharp 11-year-old to start contributing awesomely and keep doing it for exactly two years.
[18:22]	<GrandMoffTranner>	Yes, 15
[18:22]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Two days? o_O :P
[18:22]	<Toprawa>	haha
[18:22]	<Bllasae>	Per Gonk
[18:22]	<Graestan>	XD
[18:22]	<Ataru>	I think we have general consensus on this matter.
[18:22]	<Jedimca0>	*years
[18:22]	<Toprawa>	per Jedimca0, to reiterate, of course
[18:22]	<Jedimca0>	O_o
[18:22]	<Ataru>	The exception passes despite my half-hearted disapproval.
[18:22]	<Ataru>	Let's move on, shall we?
[18:22]	<Jedimca0>	how could I type days. :|
[18:22]	<Glaug-Eldare>	well, if you're contributing at 11, you'd have to be an IP and apparently even that is illegal
[18:22]	<NaruHina>	Sure
[18:22]	<Imperialles>	General consensus is to adopt Grae's proposal.
[18:22]	<Imperialles>	Moving on.
[18:22]	<Gonk|Busy>	Jedimca0: you were thinking of Darthipedia ;)
[18:23]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Glaug: only if you reveal your age
[18:23]	<Imperialles>	Search icons.
[18:23]	<NaruHina>	Agreed
[18:23]	<Toprawa>	ugh, search icons are very tiring to look at
[18:23]	<Jedimca0>	heh
[18:23]	<Graestan>	Is anyone capable of and willing to make more search icons?
[18:23]	<Gonk|Busy>	Somebody kill that fat Gonk search icon.
[18:23]	<NaruHina>	The age must be confirmed
[18:23]	<Enochf>	Heh
[18:23]	<Glaug-Eldare>	yeah, if you never disclose your age, you're good either way
[18:23]	<Glaug-Eldare>	lol
[18:23]	<AdmirableAckbar>	I think Ozzel does them by request sort of.
[18:23]	<Toprawa>	Naru, we're on a new topic now
[18:23]	=-=	Ataru has changed the topic to “Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: CTs inbound - Channel status: This is indeed the Mofference. Topic is: Search icons - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: [Redacted by administration]”
[18:23]	<Graestan>	They suck and are tiresome, in particular that OLD Cal Omas joke.
[18:23]	<NaruHina>	Well now wer are
[18:23]	<Imperialles>	No admins have had to confirm their age ever. We're moving on.
[18:23]	<ChackJadson>	New search icons must be made
[18:23]	<Enochf>	Oh, how I pine for my long lost Killer RoboLeia search icon
[18:24]	<Imperialles>	The thing is, search icons are mainly for "old school" users, who prefer Monobook
[18:24]	<Imperialles>	Most people won't ever see them
[18:24]	<Toprawa>	The search icons remind of bad radio stations...replaying the same 8 crappy songs over and over and over :P
[18:24]	<Graestan>	Can we just adopt one, so I can tune it out more easily?
[18:24]	<AdmirableAckbar>	We used to just have the Wookiee one, didn't we?
[18:24]	<Imperialles>	What I have done in the past is to actively weed out the icons that displeased me, and add a few new ones
[18:24]	<Jedimca0>	we used to have just one.
[18:25]	<AdmirableAckbar>	I think that'd be better than what we have.
[18:25]	|<--	Grunny has left irc.freenode.net ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
[18:25]	<Gonk|Busy>	I have an idea for this
[18:25]	<ChackJadson>	I don't care either way, really
[18:25]	<Imperialles>	I think they're a bit silly myself, and a lot of extra work.
[18:25]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Most of the icons aren't particularly interesting anyway. They're just FAs.
[18:25]	<Soresu>	Only a select few users even use monobook. Anons and new users all use monaco
[18:25]	<Jedimca0>	I wouldn't oppose to having just one... I use Monaco... :P
[18:25]	<Toprawa>	I oppose just having one.
[18:25]	<Muuurgh>	If we just use one, I'd prefer we leave it free of illustration.
[18:25]	* ChackJadson	uses monobook
[18:25]	<Ataru>	Epic meh. I use Monaco, but I'm really tired of seeing that Ewok arse like I see right freaking now.
[18:25]	<Toprawa>	I support a movement to create new ones.
[18:25]	<Enochf>	Eh. They do load slowly.
[18:25]	<Toprawa>	Make a team
[18:25]	<Gonk|Busy>	We do kind of what Culator did for the big image deletion thing. Set a date and anybody who cares should drastically increase the number of search icons, or else randomness goes away entirely and we have *one*.
[18:25]	<Graestan>	Soresu: 90% of long-time users.
[18:25]	<Imperialles>	The new one would have to be pretty generic. No Wookiee repeat.
[18:26]	<Graestan>	Logo.
[18:26]	<Cull_Tremayne>	What happened to adding a search icon for each new FA? Or however that went?
[18:26]	<Ataru>	*Monobook
[18:26]	<ChackJadson>	What was the old one?
[18:26]	<Toprawa>	per Cull
[18:26]	<Imperialles>	The problem with that is that, Gonk, is that someone might hastily make tons of new icons
[18:26]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Cull: problem with that is some FAs don't really make a good looking icons
[18:26]	<Graestan>	Cull: I'll just go make 400 new icons now. :P
[18:26]	<Enochf>	I think a Viper probe droid icon would work
[18:26]	<AdmirableAckbar>	A planet, say.
[18:26]	<Imperialles>	They would be poor in quality
[18:26]	<Tyber>	per cull, if possible
[18:26]	<Enochf>	Probe droid = search
[18:26]	<Cull_Tremayne>	Graestan: Good, someone should. :P
[18:26]	<Graestan>	See you in November.
[18:26]	<Gonk|Busy>	Well, obviously, "QUALITY icons" then :)
[18:26]	<ChackJadson>	What was the old icon?
[18:27]	<Ataru>	I think the pertinent question is, do we want more?
[18:27]	<Muuurgh>	A Wookiee.
[18:27]	<Toprawa>	Ataru> Yes
[18:27]	<Muuurgh>	With a bowcaster.
[18:27]	<ChackJadson>	Thought so
[18:27]	<Ataru>	And if so, who's going to make them?
[18:27]	<Toprawa>	I do anyway :P
[18:27]	<Jedimca0>	Ataru: we don't want the ones we have now...
[18:27]	<Toprawa>	Make a project page and recruit a team.
[18:27]	<Imperialles>	Remove them altogether. Bah!
[18:27]	<--|	GrandMoffTranner has left #wookieepedia
[18:27]	<Jedimca0>	so... we'll have other ones...
[18:27]	-->|	a_tree has joined #wookieepedia
[18:27]	=-=	Mode #wookieepedia +v a_tree by Nuku-Nuku
[18:27]	<Gonk|Busy>	I want more, but not enough to take the initiative :)
[18:27]	<ChackJadson>	Per Ataru on the "epic meh" thing
[18:27]	<Imperialles>	There is a page, Tope
[18:27]	<Toprawa>	I've never found it :P
[18:27]	<Cull_Tremayne>	But yeah, it's really only for people who still use Monobook, not really applicable to new users.
[18:27]	<Imperialles>	Most are made by Redemption and JMAS
[18:27]	<Imperialles>	I have edited most of them for quality.
[18:27]	<AdmirableAckbar>	And Ozzel, I think.
[18:28]	<AdmirableAckbar>	He's made a few for me, anyway.
[18:28]	<Imperialles>	Ah, yes.
[18:28]	<Ataru>	Well, can we get a team together to work on this with some willing volunteers, then?
[18:28]	<Gonk|Busy>	I don't see how anyone could object, Ataru :)
[18:28]	<Graestan>	Make a SH thread.
[18:28]	<Ataru>	Me neither.
[18:28]	<Toprawa>	I'm not exactly image-inclined...but I would help with what I could.
[18:28]	<Jedimca0>	Per Ataru
[18:28]	<Graestan>	I'll do it if someone zips me the links.
[18:28]	<Imperialles>	Go ahead and make new ones. I will weed out the bad ones.
[18:28]	<Gonk|Busy>	8)
[18:28]	<Graestan>	Let's move on.
[18:28]	<Ataru>	Okay. Then we don't really need to discuss this further, right? The interested parties will work on this.
[18:28]	<Imperialles>	Indeed.
[18:28]	<Ataru>	NEXT! :-P
[18:28]	<Bllasae>	->
[18:28]	<Bllasae>	Next
[18:28]	<Imperialles>	Mr. and Mrs. Star Wars
[18:28]	<Graestan>	Fate of Mr. and Mrs. Star Wars. Do we really need one next year, and do we need to link it in the site notice? Even if they do improve morale or whatever the rationale is, and they can be a bit of fun, but they look terribly unprofessional - especially when people take things a little too far - and they're there advertised for every reader to have a look at. The most recent suggestion for a...
[18:28]	<Graestan>	...similar type of fun-game-thing - which would be more manageable and useful than Mr./Mrs., at least marginally - was comprehensively shot down, and I can't see any reason why this is different. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 22:00, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
[18:29]	-->|	Grunny has joined #wookieepedia
[18:29]	=-=	a_tree is now known as Azzt|Maths
[18:29]	<NaruHina>	Keep
[18:29]	=-=	Ataru has changed the topic to “Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: CTs inbound - Channel status: This is indeed the Mofference. Topic is: Mr. and Ms. Star Wars. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: http://qdb.lucidfox.org”
[18:29]	=-=	Mode #wookieepedia +v Grunny by Graestan
[18:29]	<Toprawa>	It certainly attracts a rather unsavory crowd, IMO...
[18:29]	<AdmirableAckbar>	This is mainly about linking it in the sitenotice moreso than getting rid of it, though that's also a good option.
[18:29]	<Imperialles>	Mr. and Mrs. Star Wars has always annoyed me. Kill it.
[18:29]	<Bllasae>	I'm indifferent
[18:29]	<Azzt|Maths>	waaaaaaaitasec
[18:29]	<AdmirableAckbar>	It looks like absolute crap.
[18:29]	<NaruHina>	They are just something fun to do
[18:29]	<Azzt|Maths>	this is a morffereffqzen;;ce?
[18:29]	<Jedimca0>	I'd say keep... but make it less of a sock puppet fest...
[18:29]	<Graestan>	I's be all for removing the sitenotice thing.
[18:29]	<NaruHina>	Though more regulation of them is desireable
[18:29]	<AdmirableAckbar>	It looks unprofessional.
[18:29]	<Cull_Tremayne>	It's still not more trouble than it's worth.
[18:29]	<Ataru>	Azzt: Yes, so stay on topic.
[18:29]	<Gonk|Busy>	FWIW, if this gets voted into extinction, Darthipedia will continue the tradition with Mr. and Ms. Darthipedia... so if anyone can't bear to say goodbye ;)
[18:29]	<ChackJadson>	Per Jedimca0 and Grae
[18:29]	<Bllasae>	Although they look stupid and pointless
[18:29]	<Ataru>	I think it should stay, but get it out of the sitenotice
[18:29]	<Imperialles>	This is exactly the sort of thing we shouldn't be doing if we want to be taken seriously.
[18:29]	<Azzt|Maths>	Ataru: i was unaware that it was today
[18:30]	<Tyber>	if we kill it, it will prove that there is a cabal :P
[18:30]	<AdmirableAckbar>	I'd tend to agree with Imp.
[18:30]	<Graestan>	I see no harm in keeping it altogether.
[18:30]	<Toprawa>	i have to agree with Imp
[18:30]	<Jedimca0>	I think it might actually encourage some anons to make a user name, but I can't be sure.
[18:30]	<Bllasae>	Per Imp
[18:30]	<Toprawa>	I would just kill it
[18:30]	<AdmirableAckbar>	There's loads of fun games on TFN.
[18:30]	<Cylka>	The site notice at least has to go.
[18:30]	<Tyber>	per cylka
[18:30]	<Ataru>	Okay, let's take this in two steps.
[18:30]	<Toprawa>	We're an encyclopedia, not a circus
[18:30]	<NaruHina>	Per Cylka
[18:30]	<Toprawa>	though some people would disagree :P
[18:30]	<Enochf>	Oh, bah, it doesn't make us look any more unprofessional than, say, People Magazine
[18:30]	<Ataru>	First, we vote on whether to keep the whole thing or not.
[18:30]	<Bllasae>	People Magazine is professional anyways
[18:30]	<Ataru>	So, either "Keep" or "Delete"
[18:30]	<Bllasae>	Or it shouldn't be
[18:30]	<Jedimca0>	yeah, not site notice will help with the sock puppet fest thing.
[18:30]	<Bllasae>	Delete
[18:30]	<Toprawa>	Delete
[18:30]	<Jedimca0>	*no
[18:31]	<Ataru>	Keep.
[18:31]	<Gonk|Busy>	Delete
[18:31]	<Imperialles>	Delete.
[18:31]	<Muuurgh>	Delete.
[18:31]	<Enochf>	Keep
[18:31]	<Soresu>	Keep
[18:31]	<Jedimca0>	Keep
[18:31]	<NaruHina>	Compariing us to People is not flattering
[18:31]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Delete.
[18:31]	<Cylka>	keep
[18:31]	<Cull_Tremayne>	I don't vote, but Keep.
[18:31]	<NaruHina>	Keep
[18:31]	<ChackJadson>	keep
[18:31]	<Tyber>	keep
[18:31]	<Graestan>	.Keep
[18:31]	<Bllasae>	Looks like a keep
[18:31]	<Grunny>	keep
[18:31]	<Imperialles>	Alright, keep then.
[18:31]	<Enochf>	Narrow keep win
[18:31]	<Ataru>	Looks like we're keeping it.
[18:31]	<Glaug-Eldare>	yay
[18:31]	<Ataru>	Now, vote for removing it from Sitenotice
[18:31]	<Bllasae>	Lol Glaug really cares
[18:31]	<Imperialles>	Now, remove it from the site notice or not? "Yes/No"
[18:31]	<Graestan>	Kill
[18:31]	<Enochf>	Oh...
[18:31]	<Cylka>	remove
[18:31]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Remove.
[18:31]	<Gonk|Busy>	Remove
[18:31]	<Cull_Tremayne>	As in, I don't vote in the competition. :P
[18:31]	<Ataru>	Remove.
[18:31]	<Bllasae>	Yes
[18:31]	<NaruHina>	Now if only we could ban Ahsoka from it
[18:31]	<Enochf>	Maybe put it in the news section?
[18:31]	<Toprawa>	Remove
[18:31]	<Imperialles>	Remove
[18:31]	<Bllasae>	Remove
[18:31]	<Grunny>	remove
[18:31]	<Jedimca0>	Remove from site notice.
[18:31]	<Muuurgh>	Remove.
[18:31]	<Enochf>	Remove
[18:31]	<Tyber>	remove
[18:31]	<Bllasae>	Toasted it
[18:31]	<NaruHina>	Remove
[18:31]	<Soresu>	Remove
[18:31]	<Bllasae>	It's gone
[18:31]	<Ataru>	Okay, I think that's consensus. :-P
[18:31]	<ChackJadson>	remove
[18:31]	<Imperialles>	Looks like a remove.
[18:32]	<Enochf>	:D
[18:32]	<Imperialles>	Nice one.
[18:32]	<Imperialles>	Moving on!
[18:32]	<AdmirableAckbar>	:)
[18:32]	<Bllasae>	lol
[18:32]	<Graestan>	The presence of administrators. Perhaps it is time again to discuss what the definition of an administrator is. In the section on absence, "visit #wookieepedia" is listed as legitimate presence before contact is attempted prior to sysops removal. I don't see how this constitutes a presence on the wiki, and propose that the line be removed. Also, the time frames provided are extremely lenient...
[18:32]	<Graestan>	...(contact at 6 months' absence, warning at 8, and removal at a year's absence), and I would also ask that a shortening of these figures be considered. The wiki changes a lot in even six months' time, and to expect the new user base to accept and trust someone who was elected years ago and hasn't been around since they became users is somewhat absurd.
[18:32]	<Graestan>	First up:
[18:32]	<NaruHina>	I'd say they have to make an edit within 6 months
[18:32]	<Graestan>	Hanging out in IRC =/= contribution
[18:32]	<Gonk|Busy>	I propose a hard MINIMUM four months for contact. Some of us have semesters to worry about.
[18:32]	<Imperialles>	Completely agreed.
[18:32]	<Toprawa>	Then one person makes an edit once every 6 months and they're still legitimate/
[18:32]	<Toprawa>	?*
[18:32]	<ChackJadson>	6 months (should)= no more powah!
[18:33]	=-=	Ataru has changed the topic to “Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: CTs inbound - Channel status: This is indeed the Mofference. Topic is: Admin absence. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: [Redacted by administration]”
[18:33]	<Toprawa>	That's just silly
[18:33]	<Bllasae>	On Halopedia, for admins, it was at least 2000 edits and 3 months of activity
[18:33]	<ChackJadson>	No, no loopholes, Tope
[18:33]	<Toprawa>	per Chack
[18:33]	<ChackJadson>	Make it like, 50 or so
[18:33]	<Azzt|Maths>	useful contributions
[18:33]	<NaruHina>	If they continue to play it like Tope says they should lose tit as weell
[18:33]	<Toprawa>	Our current policy allows someone to make one edit every year or whatever it is and they avoid the ax
[18:33]	<AdmirableAckbar>	If they violate the spirit of the rule, they could be RFRAed if there's no policy to stop it.
[18:33]	<NaruHina>	*it
[18:33]	<Tyber>	2000 is high
[18:33]	<Graestan>	I don't see why the admin needs their powers if they don't use them, much less edit at all, for even three months. My suggestion is that the communication should take place at four months' complete absence from the wiki, the warning at five months', and the removal at six. That's a /two-month window./
[18:33]	<ChackJadson>	Agreed
[18:33]	<Cull_Tremayne>	Not in favor of this, just because it's incredibly easy to get past this.
[18:33]	<Bllasae>	Agreed
[18:33]	<Imperialles>	Per Grae.
[18:33]	<Graestan>	Per Acky, but we all know how chummy some of the violators are.
[18:33]	<Enochf>	Are we thinking of anyone in particular here?
[18:34]	<Ataru>	That's reasonable, though I think we should have some exceptions.
[18:34]	<Gonk|Busy>	I support Grae's suggestion
[18:34]	<Grunny>	per grae
[18:34]	<Ataru>	For example, Greyman.
[18:34]	<Cylka>	Per Grae.
[18:34]	<Imperialles>	Aidje, etc
[18:34]	<Toprawa>	Enochf> I am :)
[18:34]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Does this include if someone takes a leave of absence and tells the site when they'll be back?
[18:34]	<ChackJadson>	Ataru: yes
[18:34]	<Graestan>	Enochf: It's been different people at different times.
[18:34]	<Bllasae>	I agree with Enochf
[18:34]	<NaruHina>	Per Grae
[18:34]	<Bllasae>	Who's this going to affect?
[18:34]	<ChackJadson>	Like for Imp, Greyman, etc
[18:34]	<Jedimca0>	Per Ataru
[18:34]	<Enochf>	Hmm
[18:34]	<Graestan>	But sometimes a long-gone admin comes back and /pisses everyone off./
[18:34]	<NaruHina>	Grey is in Afghanistan
[18:34]	<Graestan>	Greyman edits.
[18:34]	<Graestan>	Hedid yesterday.
[18:34]	<Imperialles>	If admins have a proper reason for their absence, I think (hope) that should be taken into consideration
[18:34]	<ChackJadson>	Because of their situation, not because of who they are
[18:34]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Per Imp.
[18:34]	<Cylka>	Greyman still shows up every few days.
[18:34]	<Bllasae>	Alright, so what's the deal then?
[18:34]	<Ataru>	Per Imp on that.
[18:34]	<NaruHina>	He should be an exception because he has no control of that
[18:34]	<Tyber>	per imp
[18:34]	<ChackJadson>	Grae: I know, just using him as an example
[18:34]	<Jedimca0>	exceptions for people who announce they'll be away for some time for whatever reason.
[18:34]	<Bllasae>	Greyman still edits, so there's no problem.
[18:34]	<Imperialles>	I am on the Russian border. Internet is extremely scarce.
[18:34]	<Graestan>	Imp: The communication disclaimer would remain in effect.
[18:35]	<Ataru>	Okay, but what if he didn't.
[18:35]	<Enochf>	Yeah, he does still edit. Point.
[18:35]	<AdmirableAckbar>	There doesn't need to be a proper reason, though, I don't think.
[18:35]	<Bllasae>	He still edits
[18:35]	<Bllasae>	So what's the problem?
[18:35]	<Ataru>	WE GET THAT. BUT WHAT IF HE WASN'T ABLE TO?
[18:35]	<ChackJadson>	Greyman was just an example, people!
[18:35]	<Cull_Tremayne>	Admins have come back from long absences and done fine. If admins had come back from long absences and thrown the site into a tizzy, then yes. Otherwise no.
[18:35]	<Graestan>	Hey, easy.
[18:35]	<AdmirableAckbar>	If someone wants to take a break for two months without editing at all and tells everyone, that's fine. Even if they're not in the army or deep sea fishing or whatever.
[18:35]	<Graestan>	If he was unable to, he's spoken to us.
[18:35]	<Bllasae>	Agreed with Cull
[18:35]	<Ataru>	I've just seen the same post six times. :-P
[18:35]	<Jedimca0>	Per Acky
[18:35]	<Imperialles>	Acky: haha :p
[18:36]	<Tyber>	per acky
[18:36]	<Azzt|Maths>	:P
[18:36]	<Cylka>	Per Cull and Acky.
[18:36]	<NaruHina>	Per Acky
[18:36]	<Cull_Tremayne>	People need to take breaks. People that have become obsessive about the site are the problem imo. Case in point, Kuralyov.
[18:36]	<Toprawa>	Is 2 or 3 months really the question here? I thought we were talking about /long-term/ inactivity
[18:36]	<ChackJadson>	Per Acky
[18:36]	<Graestan>	I just want to propose communication at four months, then five for warning, then six for auto-removal, and remove the #wookieepedia nonsense.
[18:36]	<Bllasae>	Per Cull
[18:36]	<Ataru>	Grae's proposal is fine.
[18:36]	<ChackJadson>	Let's vote on Grae's idea, ok?
[18:36]	<Bllasae>	Per Grae
[18:36]	<Graestan>	Who's in favor?
[18:36]	<Ataru>	Aye.
[18:36]	<Gonk|Busy>	Aye
[18:36]	<Bllasae>	I
[18:36]	<Graestan>	Me, obviously.
[18:36]	<ChackJadson>	Me
[18:36]	<Imperialles>	Aye
[18:36]	<Azzt|Maths>	concur
[18:36]	<Toprawa>	Aye
[18:36]	<Grunny>	I am
[18:36]	<Cylka>	yes
[18:36]	<Jedimca0>	support
[18:36]	<Bllasae>	Win
[18:36]	<Soresu>	Mesa
[18:36]	<Cull_Tremayne>	Against.
[18:36]	<Enochf>	Oh.... OK, aye
[18:36]	<NaruHina>	2-3 months is /long term/ for those who are supposed to lead it
[18:37]	<Tyber>	ok
[18:37]	<NaruHina>	Per Grae
[18:37]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Me, with the clause that people can bugger off if they tell people when they'll be back.
[18:37]	<Bllasae>	So Grae's proposal passes
[18:37]	<Graestan>	Per Acky, but that is already there.
[18:37]	<Soresu>	Wait auto-removal?
[18:37]	<Imperialles>	Of course, Acky
[18:37]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Oh, right.
[18:37]	<Soresu>	Couldn't we have a removal of rights vote
[18:37]	<Graestan>	Auto-removal, as in Imp or someone asks staff to remove their sysops.
[18:37]	<Imperialles>	Auto-removal: Bureaucrat tells Wikia staff to remove powers and points to the policy
[18:37]	<Cull_Tremayne>	We've never had to deal with it yet, but I hope that if the situation does arise, that we can be more lenient than this policy is proposing.
[18:37]	<Bllasae>	Cull: like another month?
[18:37]	<Imperialles>	I have already done it once, MarcK
[18:38]	<Graestan>	No, voting invites cronyism on the part of their buddies on the wiki, who'd probably tip them off anyhow.
[18:38]	<Imperialles>	;*
[18:38]	<Ataru>	Well, if we get an admin e-mail from someone at 5.5 months, they should be fine, right?
[18:38]	<Gonk|Busy>	One can always earn one's sysop back.
[18:38]	<Bllasae>	Yeah, which means they'd come back to secure it
[18:38]	<Graestan>	Per Gonk.
[18:38]	<NaruHina>	No votes, just loss
[18:38]	<Ataru>	Talking about the admin listserv, that is.
[18:38]	<Jedimca0>	per Gonk
[18:38]	<Graestan>	It's wiki sysops, not a damned crown.
[18:38]	<Bllasae>	Yeah, Gonk's right
[18:38]	<Imperialles>	Anyway, it seems as if Grae's proposal was adopted.
[18:38]	<ChackJadson>	We need a minimum number of edits to prevent a loophole, though
[18:38]	<Ataru>	Yes, let's move on.
[18:38]	<Imperialles>	Let's move on, shall we.
[18:38]	<Azzt|Maths>	please
[18:38]	<Tyber>	yes
[18:38]	<Graestan>	Per Chack, but I think we might use RFRA for that.
[18:38]	<Imperialles>	Civility policy.
[18:39]	<Cull_Tremayne>	More in the style of, if people have valid excuses, if they claim they're coming back after first contact, etc. It shouldn't be such an exact process imo. Especially because it's going to be so rare.
[18:39]	<Graestan>	Eventually.
[18:39]	=-=	Ataru has changed the topic to “Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: CTs inbound - Channel status: This is indeed the Mofference. Topic is: Civility as a policy. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes:[Redacted by administration] ”
[18:39]	<ChackJadson>	kk
[18:39]	<Soresu>	Yes
[18:39]	* Gonk|Busy	is very on-the-fence on this one
[18:39]	<Graestan>	Cull: We'd always be more understanding than policy suggests.
[18:39]	<Enochf>	What about civility policy?
[18:39]	<Graestan>	Okay, on civility.
[18:39]	<Cull_Tremayne>	Grae: I know that's what you mean, but a policy doesn't really help that.
[18:39]	<Ataru>	Seems to me that civility is a guideline, along the lines of DBD.
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[18:39]	<Graestan>	I am mainly here to get the temperature on the civility page.
[18:39]	=-=	Mode #wookieepedia +v Fiolli by Nuku-Nuku
[18:40]	<Ataru>	As much as I'm all for enforcing civility, it's a very subjective thing to ban for.
[18:40]	<Toprawa>	Civility is not a policy, but yet we can block for it...
[18:40]	<Toprawa>	that doesnt make sense to me
[18:40]	<Ataru>	Even more subjective than "disruption" :-P
[18:40]	<ChackJadson>	Agree with it as a policy
[18:40]	<Graestan>	I will have to CT this.
[18:40]	<Graestan>	It's a CT-only deal, really.
[18:40]	<NaruHina>	CT
[18:40]	<AdmirableAckbar>	It's pretty much treated as a policy as is, isn't it.
[18:40]	<Jedimca0>	CT
[18:40]	<Graestan>	But I just want to know what people think./
[18:40]	<Cylka>	CT
[18:40]	<Toprawa>	Acky> One would think
[18:40]	<AdmirableAckbar>	I'm pretty sure I've seen people banned for it.
[18:40]	<Toprawa>	but others disagree
[18:40]	<Ataru>	I've never blocked people for civility violations.
[18:40]	<Graestan>	I've banned someone infinitely more than once for it.
[18:40]	<Ataru>	I've blocked them for NPA, but not general snarkiness.
[18:40]	<Toprawa>	Civility just falls into "Don't be a dick/NPA"
[18:40]	<Tyber>	then CT it
[18:40]	<Ataru>	I mean, it's easy to take things the wrong way sometimes.
[18:41]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Usually it also falls under disruption as well.
[18:41]	<Graestan>	A violation of civility really is the same thing as disruption.
[18:41]	<Enochf>	What civility issues are there beyond PAs?
[18:41]	<AdmirableAckbar>	^
[18:41]	<Cull_Tremayne>	It's been used fairly subjectively in the past, especially in terms of "emotion doesn't translate over the internet". But still not sure what's being discussed in this point.
[18:41]	<Ataru>	Per Enochf.
[18:41]	<Graestan>	Enochf: You know how people skirt it.
[18:41]	<Graestan>	"Your idea is supid!"
[18:41]	<Gonk|Busy>	Enochf: think back to Nebulax.
[18:41]	<Graestan>	etc.
[18:41]	<Toprawa>	per Graestan
[18:41]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Yeah.
[18:41]	<Graestan>	No, more recent.
[18:41]	<Ataru>	Um. We have that on our WP:NPA page.
[18:41]	<Graestan>	We have had admins who do it.
[18:41]	<Ataru>	"Comment on content, not the contributor"
[18:41]	<Bllasae>	Yes or No
[18:41]	<Toprawa>	I can think of one admin who has a problem with not telling people their ideas suck 9_9
[18:41]	<Graestan>	Ataru: People still squeeze by.
[18:41]	<Ataru>	Bllasae: It's not that straightforward. Easy on the voting.
[18:41]	<AdmirableAckbar>	There's several examples on the civilty page.
[18:41]	<Imperialles>	We can always slander the contributor on IRC.
[18:42]	<Ataru>	XD
[18:42]	<AdmirableAckbar>	"Mind your own business."
[18:42]	<Bllasae>	Lol
[18:42]	<Soresu>	I always believed in merging NPA with civility and then amke it a policy
[18:42]	<Azzt|Maths>	Imp: XD
[18:42]	<Enochf>	I dunno
[18:42]	<Ataru>	If they're really skirting NPA, then block them for WP:POINT.
[18:42]	<Enochf>	Wouldn't anyone who directs a potential offender to the "don't be a dick" policy be guilty of violating civility?
[18:42]	<Enochf>	You're effectively calling them a dick
[18:42]	<Toprawa>	9_9
[18:42]	<Bllasae>	Which they wouldn't be called if they weren't one
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[18:42]	<NaruHina>	Rename the policy
[18:42]	<Imperialles>	Well, seems this is an issue that needs to be discussed in greater depth than IRC would allow.
[18:42]	<ChackJadson>	XD
[18:43]	<Gonk|Busy>	You're calling their behavior dickish. Presumably.
[18:43]	<Enochf>	Circular logic ^_^
[18:43]	<Jedimca0>	XD
[18:43]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Technically, you're accusing them of /being/ a dick. Not sure if there's a difference.
[18:43]	<Bllasae>	:P
[18:43]	<Ataru>	I think there are more effective ways of handling this than making civility an iron rule.
[18:43]	<Gonk|Busy>	per Ataru
[18:43]	<Cull_Tremayne>	Will since it's up to the person to direct them there...that's not exactly an objective analysis.
[18:43]	<NaruHina>	Per Ataru
[18:43]	<Soresu>	Per Ataru too
[18:43]	<Bllasae>	Per Ataru
[18:44]	<Toprawa>	not per Ataru :P
[18:44]	<Ataru>	I'd be happier expanding WP:POINT to cover skirting the NPA rule, rather than adding another subjectiveto the list of our bannable offenses.
[18:44]	<Graestan>	Well, I will undoubtedly reveal /something/ on the CT as a proposal. I just wanted to get a litmus test. Thank you all.
[18:44]	<Soresu>	It's a good guideline, but a /rule/?
[18:44]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Next?
[18:44]	<Graestan>	Ataru: WP:POINT is still a proposed policy/guideline.
[18:44]	<NaruHina>	Next
[18:44]	<Ataru>	We should fix that, but I digress.
[18:44]	<Graestan>	Prohibiting discussion of Mofference agenda items on the Mofference page except when the discussion is procedural in nature. Gonk (Gonk!) 21:47, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
[18:44]	<Imperialles>	Moving on.
[18:44]	<Jedimca0>	Ok... next
[18:44]	<Imperialles>	Prohibiting discussion of Mofference agenda items on the Mofference page
[18:44]	<Graestan>	I am for such prohibition.
[18:44]	|<--	Mecenarylord has left irc.freenode.net (Client Quit)
[18:44]	<Bllasae>	I want to know what we're doing
[18:44]	<Gonk|Busy>	hehehehe
[18:44]	<Toprawa>	haha
[18:44]	<NaruHina>	Merc has no voice
[18:44]	<Bllasae>	During the meetings
[18:44]	<Bllasae>	Before them
[18:44]	<Graestan>	I feel that there's no reason to discuss it on the page, and that it's almost unfair to the poster of the item that people are allowed to stack opposition arguments up for all to read /before/ the Mofference even happens.
[18:45]	<Cull_Tremayne>	Since one of our BCs is for it...no prohibition. :P
[18:45]	<Imperialles>	The AGENDA list is for adding AGENDA items. Not DISCUSSION of said items.
[18:45]	=-=	Ataru has changed the topic to “Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: CTs inbound - Channel status: This is indeed the Mofference. Topic is: ZOMG, talk about the Mofference AT the Mofference. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: [Redacted by administration]”
[18:45]	<Enochf>	Ah. Gotcha. Thumbs up on that one, then.
[18:45]	<Toprawa>	per Imp
[18:45]	<Gonk|Busy>	yah, this ain't the Inq.
[18:45]	<Graestan>	Furthermore, the whole point of Mofferences is that when you show up, you get a voice. Why should there be an option for those who don't bother to show up to push their agendas?
[18:45]	<Bllasae>	You could create a "newsletter" that would be sent to select people about what is going on during the mofference
[18:45]	<NaruHina>	Put a discussion section somewhere else
[18:45]	<Jedimca0>	Per Imp
[18:45]	<Cylka>	Per Imp.
[18:45]	<Graestan>	Where is the BC who commented on the page?
[18:45]	<Bllasae>	Per Imp
[18:45]	<Graestan>	Not here.
[18:45]	<AdmirableAckbar>	I don't see it as a good thing but I don't see it as a particularly bad thing. As in, if someone does it they should be reminded of this, not have their comments removed or whatever.
[18:45]	<Enochf>	This isn't a discussion! This is a *plan* for a discussion to be held in the future!
[18:45]	<Graestan>	Per my last sentence.
[18:45]	<Toprawa>	The only reason anyone would leave a comment is to say why they disagree with something. Save your opinions for the damned meeting.
[18:45]	<Ataru>	Yeah, I don't have a problem with this idea.
[18:46]	<Gonk|Busy>	Again, if the comment is procedural, it's fine.
[18:46]	<Ataru>	Just remember not to bite teh n00bs.
[18:46]	<Graestan>	I am for simply asking them not to do it.
[18:46]	<Bllasae>	Alright, discussion should be discussed on the talk page and not the main page
[18:46]	<Graestan>	Not for making a rule.
[18:46]	<Gonk|Busy>	A guideline :)
[18:46]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Okay, works for me.
[18:46]	<Ataru>	Discussion should . . . wait for the Mofference!
[18:46]	<Cull_Tremayne>	You could add additions to that topic, but I suppose that could be said in the meeting as well.
[18:46]	<Graestan>	Look at how I handled it before--
[18:46]	<Enochf>	This is so wonderfully bureaucratic ^_^
[18:46]	<Graestan>	We'll be discussing this at the Mofference, if that's alright with everyone. Graestan(Talk) 14:52, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
[18:46]	<Bllasae>	Or, discussion could go at the bottom
[18:46]	<Bllasae>	Enochf: Lol
[18:46]	<Ataru>	Or not.
[18:46]	<Enochf>	Anyhoo. Sounds like an aye.
[18:46]	<Cull_Tremayne>	Yeah, you told off a BC on a public page, that's great. :P
[18:47]	<Graestan>	Per Ataru. Look at all of us. We showed up. We get a vote and a voice.
[18:47]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Maybe that tells us something...
[18:47]	<Bllasae>	Per Grae
[18:47]	<Cull_Tremayne>	So yeah, anything to avoid that.
[18:47]	<Enochf>	So do these discussions, if they come up, get crossed out, deleted from the agenda, or what?
[18:47]	<Graestan>	No offense, Cull, but Bureaucrat is not King or Deity.
[18:47]	<Ataru>	Enochf: I'd be fine with reverting them.
[18:47]	<Bllasae>	Agree or Disagree, then?
[18:47]	<Imperialles>	:(
[18:47]	<Enochf>	Who votes for revert? ^_^ I will. Revert.
[18:47]	<Cull_Tremayne>	Grae: That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying that admin issues shouldn't be out in the open. Which is why I'm agreeing with you.
[18:47]	<Jedimca0>	reverting them, or moving them to a comments section... but probably revert...
[18:48]	<Soresu>	Comments
[18:48]	<Cylka>	Revert
[18:48]	<Ataru>	You want to talk at a Mofference, show up. This isn't the Inq.
[18:48]	<Gonk|Busy>	I'd support revert too. Works as well as anything else as a "suggestion" :)
[18:48]	<Ataru>	Revert.
[18:48]	<ChackJadson>	revert
[18:48]	<Jedimca0>	There is already a comments section on the page.
[18:48]	<NaruHina>	A clause that tells them not to discuss on the 'rence page but on the nominator's talk page?
[18:48]	<Imperialles>	Admin issues should be out in the open. Government transparency and all that.
[18:48]	<Graestan>	I am not so much for reversion etc. as I am for a line on the page asking for the agenda to be kept clean.
[18:48]	<Jedimca0>	so if there is a really relevant comment, it could be moved there.
[18:48]	<Soresu>	What if someone has an idea but can't attend
[18:48]	<Jedimca0>	but any random objections should be reverted.
[18:48]	<AdmirableAckbar>	They tell someone else.
[18:48]	<Imperialles>	Per Grae
[18:49]	<Bllasae>	They shouldn't be allowed on the page at all, and should be put in the discussion page
[18:49]	<Gonk|Busy>	a line on the page is implicit in the original proposal, I think... so it looks like yes to both proposal & reverting those who ignore the line
[18:49]	<Imperialles>	Just add a line. Much less work.
[18:49]	<Imperialles>	Sounds good, Gonk
[18:49]	<Ataru>	Sounds good.
[18:49]	<Soresu>	Yeah, I guess I could work with that
[18:49]	<Bllasae>	Good
[18:50]	<Imperialles>	Moving on, then
[18:50]	<Imperialles>	Next issue:
[18:50]	<NaruHina>	Per Gonk
[18:50]	<Imperialles>	Comic quotes. I think we should try and phase out the use of all-caps or bolded phrases in quotes that originate from comics. While some comic quotes are certainly bolded, some are bright blue and several inches high, but we wouldn't do that in an article quote, even though it's generally possible. I think the use of italics only for such emphasized words would be prudent, as bold/all caps looks pretty dire, and unencyclopedic/unprofession
[18:50]	<Imperialles>	al.
[18:50]	<Graestan>	I've always converted that to italics, and no one's complained.
[18:50]	<NaruHina>	Just copy the words
[18:50]	<Toprawa>	But I *CANT REACH MY LIGHTSABER!*
[18:50]	<Enochf>	Ooh, and I have opinions on that one
[18:50]	=-=	Ataru has changed the topic to “Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: CTs inbound - Channel status: This is indeed the Mofference. Topic is: Comic quotes. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: [Redacted by administration]”
[18:50]	<AdmirableAckbar>	http://starwars.wikia.com/index.php?title=Mils_Giel&oldid=2326862#Loss_of_the_teezl - here's an example that's since been changed
[18:50]	<Enochf>	Yeah. I want comics bold = italic an ironclad rule. :D
[18:50]	<Cull_Tremayne>	Full support of removing the obnoxious bolding.
[18:50]	<Bllasae>	I'VE FALLEN AND I CAN'T REACH MY LIGHTSABER
[18:50]	<ChackJadson>	Per Cull
[18:50]	<Grunny>	I think convert to italics
[18:50]	<Gonk|Busy>	italics only works for me
[18:51]	<Soresu>	italics
[18:51]	<Graestan>	We really need a quote policy.
[18:51]	<Toprawa>	Italics only
[18:51]	<Tyber>	italics
[18:51]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Basically, we change comic quotes as is with capitalization, so this should be fine.
[18:51]	<Enochf>	As for all caps, I'd accept that for comics, but not for novels
[18:51]	<NaruHina>	The bolding looks bad anyway
[18:51]	<Toprawa>	We have a quote policy
[18:51]	<Muuurgh>	Convert bold to italics.
[18:51]	<Imperialles>	Altering quotes just a little could set a bad precedent for other cases
[18:51]	<Enochf>	There's a Mace Windu quote from Shatterpoint in all caps, as per the source material
[18:51]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Imp: we already alter comic quotes
[18:51]	<Bllasae>	It should be as Canon as possible, and copied word for word, italics, caps etc.
[18:51]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Enochf: right, this only applies to comics
[18:51]	<NaruHina>	The caps are just a stylistic standard in the comic world
[18:51]	<Jedimca0>	Per Graestan... a quote policy might be usefull.
[18:51]	<Bllasae>	The author obviously intended it to be this way, or would have done it some other way
[18:51]	<NaruHina>	And they would look like shouting
[18:51]	<Enochf>	Well, Bll, in comics they hardly ever use lowercase letters, we won't be copying that
[18:51]	<Graestan>	Well, it's not really an author, per se.
[18:52]	<Toprawa>	It looks silly
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[18:52]	<Gonk|Busy>	Imp: Since comics are so distinct from other forms of media, I'm not too worried about the "slippery slope" here
[18:52]	<Toprawa>	I think that's the point
[18:52]	<AdmirableAckbar>	We don't need big blue lettering that's three times as big just cause it's like that in the comic, do we?
[18:52]	<Cull_Tremayne>	Right, since we don't capitalize every word in comic quotes.
[18:52]	<Imperialles>	Maybe.
[18:52]	=-=	Mode #wookieepedia +v Pranay_Sobusk by Graestan
[18:52]	<Bllasae>	Eno: Good point, but what about caps and stuff
[18:52]	<Bllasae>	and italics?
[18:52]	<NaruHina>	No caps
[18:52]	<Soresu>	No caps
[18:52]	<Enochf>	Some comics use italics, some use bold. I say interpret them all as italics.
[18:52]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Let's vote.
[18:52]	<Fiolli>	No caps.
[18:52]	<NaruHina>	We already have people showing exclaimation that way
[18:52]	<Graestan>	Italics only.
[18:53]	<Fiolli>	Italics only.
[18:53]	<NaruHina>	*authors
[18:53]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Limiting comic quotes to italics only - no bold, no caps. Yes or no.
[18:53]	<Cylka>	Italics
[18:53]	<Toprawa>	Italics only
[18:53]	<Soresu>	Aye
[18:53]	<Jedimca0>	Italics.
[18:53]	<Graestan>	Yes.
[18:53]	<Imperialles>	Italics only.
[18:53]	<Muuurgh>	Italics only.
[18:53]	<Fiolli>	Yes.
[18:53]	<Grunny>	Italics
[18:53]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Italics only.
[18:53]	<NaruHina>	Italics only
[18:53]	<Gonk|Busy>	Yes
[18:53]	<Enochf>	Italics only, hoo-hah
[18:53]	<ChackJadson>	Yes
[18:53]	<Bllasae>	*sigh* italics
[18:53]	<Imperialles>	It's settled then. Italics only.
[18:53]	<Ataru>	kk
[18:53]	<Enochf>	Love it
[18:53]	<AdmirableAckbar>	:)
[18:53]	<Bllasae>	Enochf: It's a democracy!
[18:53]	<Toprawa>	Now I can /reach my lightsaber!/
[18:53]	<Enochf>	Next issue, I don't care so much, gonna have a snack ;)
[18:54]	<Graestan>	Snowball clause for CTs. I admit that I have closed at least one such CT early in the past, not realizing that the snowball clause (overwhelming votes one way or another) only applied to the Trash compactor at the time. I'd like to propose an addition to the Consensus track portion of Wookieepedia:Consensus which states: "After one week from the start of voting on an issue, if the votes...
[18:54]	<Graestan>	...overwhelmingly support one option, the thread may be closed early." This should streamline what has been a somewhat cumbersome process in the past.
[18:54]	=-=	Ataru has changed the topic to “Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: CTs inbound - Channel status: This is indeed the Mofference. Topic is: CT snowball clause. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: [Redacted by administration]”
[18:54]	<Cull_Tremayne>	Of course italics doesn't work with a quote template, but whatever.
[18:54]	<Gonk|Busy>	Strong yes. No reason not to.
[18:54]	<Toprawa>	per Gonk
[18:54]	<Graestan>	Yes.
[18:54]	<ChackJadson>	Support
[18:54]	<Azzt|Maths>	support
[18:54]	<Ataru>	I see no problem with this.
[18:54]	<NaruHina>	Can we just vote on this one?
[18:54]	<Soresu>	Support
[18:54]	<Cylka>	yes
[18:54]	<Imperialles>	Support
[18:54]	<Bllasae>	If there's not enough support anyways for other people, then it should be closed earlier
[18:54]	<Cull_Tremayne>	We should copy SNOWBALL over here.
[18:54]	<NaruHina>	Its self explanitory
[18:54]	<Fiolli>	No.
[18:54]	<Bllasae>	Support
[18:54]	<NaruHina>	Supportr
[18:54]	<AdmirableAckbar>	support
[18:54]	<Cull_Tremayne>	Or adopt it as a policy here that is.
[18:54]	<Graestan>	If it's a done deal, it's a done deal. Why wait two weeks when it's 23-1?
[18:54]	<Grunny>	support
[18:54]	<Cull_Tremayne>	Support
[18:54]	<Fiolli>	Against. What constitutes "overwhelming" ?
[18:54]	<Bllasae>	Per Grae
[18:54]	<NaruHina>	Per Fiolli
[18:54]	<Bllasae>	But there should be a limit also
[18:54]	<Graestan>	Fiolli: Anything like 12-1, 10-0.
[18:54]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Proposers generally want it over asap when that happens, anyway.
[18:54]	<Bllasae>	To determine how early
[18:54]	<Toprawa>	Overwhelming = consensus
[18:55]	<NaruHina>	Id say 15-1
[18:55]	<Bllasae>	Like a +20 votes over "oppose"
[18:55]	<NaruHina>	*+15
[18:55]	<Azzt|Maths>	less then 2 on one side to more than, say, 15 on the other
[18:55]	<Graestan>	Admins have brains , they can determine it.
[18:55]	<Fiolli>	I would say 8:1 ratio or greater.
[18:55]	<Azzt|Maths>	or something
[18:55]	<Ataru>	10 to 1 or better.
[18:55]	<Ataru>	We need to spell that out.
[18:55]	<Imperialles>	Let's not set a hard number rule
[18:55]	<Ataru>	Per WP:Consensus
[18:55]	<Bllasae>	+15 sounds better actually
[18:55]	<Toprawa>	15 and 20 is outrageous. That many peop-le rarely vote to begin with
[18:55]	<ChackJadson>	10:1
[18:55]	<Bllasae>	Imperialles: Otherwise it doesn't make sense
[18:55]	<Imperialles>	Just... let admins figure it out. If they abuse the rule, they will be called out on it
[18:55]	<Bllasae>	10:1 sounds good
[18:55]	<Tyber>	10:1
[18:55]	<NaruHina>	+10
[18:55]	<Graestan>	The line "After one week from the start of voting on an issue, if the votes overwhelmingly support one option, the thread may be closed early." is my proposal.
[18:55]	<Toprawa>	I'd agree with Imp
[18:55]	<Gonk|Busy>	per Imp. 10:1 isn't necessarily a good way to go
[18:56]	<ChackJadson>	Support that proposal
[18:56]	<ChackJadson>	Without the hard numbers
[18:56]	<Azzt|Maths>	concur with Grae as written
[18:56]	<Bllasae>	Support, anyways
[18:56]	<Jedimca0>	10:1 sounds good.
[18:56]	<Soresu>	Per Imp
[18:56]	<Cylka>	Support per Imp and Grae.
[18:56]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Oppose 10:1.
[18:56]	<Jedimca0>	as a guide line.
[18:56]	<Bllasae>	Jed: read Grae's line above
[18:56]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Wasn't Riff's aurebesh thing something like that?
[18:56]	<Toprawa>	Vote on Imp's proposal.
[18:56]	<Bllasae>	It doesn't have to be anything
[18:56]	<Toprawa>	Up to admin discretion
[18:56]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Then someone voted against it and it was like 10:15
[18:56]	<Enochf>	Heh
[18:56]	<ChackJadson>	Acky: it was like 20-5, I think
[18:56]	<Bllasae>	As long as the "Yes" is over "No" by a considerable amount, it can be closed early
[18:56]	<Imperialles>	Well, you can leave the CT up for a bit more if it's only 3 hours old
[18:57]	<Bllasae>	Imp: It would be a week
[18:57]	<Azzt|Maths>	minimum a week
[18:57]	<Soresu>	Yes
[18:57]	<Ataru>	Yeah . . . a week is fine, but I'm still not sure on the overwhelming definition.
[18:57]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Chack: well, the point is that it was lots of support after about five days and then it all turned on its head
[18:57]	<Imperialles>	Oh. Right. Heh
[18:57]	<Tyber>	per azzt
[18:57]	<Gonk|Busy>	any oppose votes to admin discretion (per Grae's original proposal)?
[18:57]	<Graestan>	"After one week from the start of voting on an issue, if the votes overwhelmingly support one option, the thread may be closed early."
[18:57]	<NaruHina>	How about "If at any time"?
[18:57]	<Azzt|Maths>	no NaruHina
[18:57]	<Jedimca0>	normally it's two weeks, right?
[18:57]	<Graestan>	After a week.
[18:57]	<Ataru>	Naru: NO
[18:57]	<Graestan>	It's CT, not a circus.
[18:57]	<NaruHina>	Alright
[18:58]	<Cylka>	One week is fine.
[18:58]	<Imperialles>	Ataru: In the history of TC, this has only resulted in conflict once.
[18:58]	<Jedimca0>	so yeah, one week sounds good.
[18:58]	<Fiolli>	Fair enough.
[18:58]	<NaruHina>	1 week
[18:58]	<Bllasae>	Naru: if a "Yes" group votes yes, then within an hour, it would go down
[18:58]	<Pranay_Sobusk>	one week
[18:58]	<Gonk|Busy>	I see no opposes Ataru :)
[18:58]	<Bllasae>	Agree or Disagree?
[18:58]	<Bllasae>	Agree
[18:58]	<Soresu>	Agree
[18:58]	<Ataru>	Imperialles: I suppose. I'm still not swayed, but whatever.
[18:58]	<Fiolli>	Per Gonk|Busy :)
[18:58]	<NaruHina>	I see
[18:58]	<NaruHina>	Agree to one week
[18:59]	<Ataru>	Hey, Imp's running this meeting. Seems to me like there's consensus despite my half-hearted opposition.
[18:59]	<Ataru>	Policy seems to be approved as proposed.
[18:59]	<Imperialles>	Very well. Proposal adopted.
[18:59]	<Toprawa>	Yeah, let's leave the running of the meeting to people in charge
[18:59]	<Imperialles>	Moving on.
[18:59]	<NaruHina>	Next
[18:59]	* Imperialles	cracks whip
[18:59]	<Imperialles>	Plating color I admit voting against it at the former mofference but we seem to have become accustomed to using the skin color field for our characters as a Wook. Why not translate that to droids by starting a "Plating color" field for the color of their finishes as well? NaruHina Talk 05:36, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
[18:59]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Support.
[18:59]	<Imperialles>	Care to... rephrase, Naru?
[18:59]	<Graestan>	Support.
[19:00]	<Jedimca0>	support
[19:00]	<Graestan>	No complaint here.
[19:00]	<AdmirableAckbar>	It's just skin color for droids. Like, the color of the stuff they're made from.
[19:00]	<NaruHina>	Well, if we use skin color
[19:00]	<Enochf>	Eh...
[19:00]	=-=	Ataru has changed the topic to “Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: CTs inbound - Channel status: This is indeed the Mofference. Topic is: Droid plating color. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: [Redacted by administration]”
[19:00]	=-=	Mode #wookieepedia -v NaruHina by Toprawa
[19:00]	<ChackJadson>	Support
[19:00]	<Enochf>	Does Guri have plating?
[19:00]	<Ataru>	Ugh, no.
[19:00]	<Graestan>	It's great for sourceable edits.
[19:00]	<Grunny>	support
[19:00]	<Ataru>	Oppose.
[19:00]	<Gonk|Busy>	Don't most droids have two?
[19:00]	<Ataru>	Do you know how many times C-3PO gets repainted?
[19:00]	<Bllasae>	Although I don't agree with this
[19:00]	<Graestan>	Put two down.
[19:00]	<Graestan>	Source it!
[19:00]	<Bllasae>	Or know what it is
[19:00]	<Bllasae>	I'm indifferent
[19:00]	<Soresu>	Must be sourced
[19:00]	* Gonk|Busy	abstains
[19:00]	<Azzt|Maths>	Ataru: last known?
[19:00]	<Jedimca0>	per Graestan, the colors must be sourced.
[19:00]	<Toprawa>	Of course it must be sourced
[19:00]	<Toprawa>	irrelevant
[19:00]	<Tyber>	support, if sourced
[19:00]	<AdmirableAckbar>	I don't, Ataru. Nothing we can't handle, I'd think though.
[19:00]	<Cylka>	Support
[19:00]	<AdmirableAckbar>	It's the same as skin color.
[19:00]	<Ataru>	Sourced, but that field could get huge.
[19:01]	<Bllasae>	ABSTAIN
[19:01]	<Enochf>	Some droids are easily categorized this way, I guess
[19:01]	<Ataru>	Skin color generally doesn't change. :-P
[19:01]	<Enochf>	For such droids, Support
[19:01]	<Ataru>	For a few species, it might though.
[19:01]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Sourced does not necessarily mean directly identified in the text.
[19:01]	<Graestan>	It's silly to have hair, skin, eye, and photoreceptor color without plating. Look at the R-series potential!
[19:01]	<Cylka>	But what about just using the most recent color if need be.
[19:01]	<Pranay_Sobusk>	oppose, plating color can change
[19:01]	<Tyber>	per cylka
[19:01]	<Jedimca0>	Ataru: droids can be repainted... humans can't... :P
[19:01]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Ataru: I meant that in relation to the sourcing business
[19:01]	<Ataru>	Most recent would work.
[19:01]	<Enochf>	Other droids have a long history with multiple colors or no real plating, so...
[19:01]	<Toprawa>	We seem to specify when hair color changes to grey
[19:01]	<Pranay_Sobusk>	it's not constant as the other infobox things
[19:01]	<Graestan>	Pranay: You can put down at which dates and source that.
[19:01]	<Toprawa>	We could add different colors
[19:01]	<Cylka>	Most recent that can be sourced
[19:01]	<AdmirableAckbar>	If we encounter a problem, we can deal with it when we come to it.
[19:01]	<Graestan>	SKin color changes. In Galaxies.
[19:01]	<Toprawa>	I dislike most recent
[19:01]	<Ataru>	That's fine, I suppose.
[19:01]	<Toprawa>	Specify all
[19:01]	<AdmirableAckbar>	I can't image this will be a major problem.
[19:02]	<Ataru>	LOL @ Grae.
[19:02]	<Azzt|Maths>	lol Grae
[19:02]	<Ataru>	I don't care enough about this to really oppose.
[19:02]	<Toprawa>	It won't be a problem. Reviewers will clean it up anyway
[19:02]	<Enochf>	Droids have a "Photoreceptor color" field, right?
[19:02]	<Toprawa>	Yes
[19:02]	<Ataru>	I can't remember the last time I worked heavily on a droid article. :-P
[19:02]	<Tyber>	yes
[19:02]	<Imperialles>	Yes.
[19:02]	<Ataru>	So I'll shut up about it now.
[19:02]	<Enochf>	'K
[19:02]	<Enochf>	In that case, sure, support
[19:02]	<Enochf>	Plating is no more variable than photoreceptors
[19:02]	<Soresu>	Support
[19:02]	* Jedimca0	supports too
[19:02]	<Imperialles>	Very well. Adding "plating color" to droid infoboxed seems to be consensus
[19:03]	<Bllasae>	Abstain
[19:03]	<Imperialles>	Let's move on.
[19:03]	<Imperialles>	Cleaning up the requests for protection page. IMO, it's a cluttered, disorganized mess. I'll try and come up with my concept of what it should look like, most likely modeled off of the WP:VIP page, that we can discuss at Teh Mfofofffereqfereenznce. Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 15:20, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
[19:03]	<Toprawa>	It just needs an archive page.
[19:03]	<Imperialles>	Ataru's proposal: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Atarumaster88/WP:RFP
[19:03]	<Graestan>	Link us your proposal, Ataru
[19:03]	<Jedimca0>	per Toprawa
[19:03]	<Graestan>	For Ataru's plan, but I'd also like to see a "reason" field in each entry.
[19:03]	=-=	Ataru has changed the topic to “Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: CTs inbound - Channel status: This is indeed the Mofference. Topic is: WP:RFP. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: http://qdb.lucidfox.org”
[19:03]	<Toprawa>	Not a huge deal :P
[19:03]	<Ataru>	http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Atarumaster88/WP:RFP
[19:03]	<Toprawa>	But we have a plan :P
[19:03]	<Soresu>	Definitely archive
[19:03]	<Ataru>	It's really simple.
[19:03]	<ChackJadson>	I like it, Ataru
[19:03]	<AdmirableAckbar>	This looks much the same as the last to me, tbh :P
[19:04]	<Ataru>	I just wanted to see if there was any major objection.
[19:04]	<Enochf>	Hmm, looks pretty straightforward
[19:04]	<Graestan>	Reason field non-optional!
[19:04]	<Ataru>	It's just like WP:VIP
[19:04]	<Gonk|Busy>	Support
[19:04]	<AdmirableAckbar>	But no major objections from me.
[19:04]	<Graestan>	For my personal amusement, at the least. ;)
[19:04]	<Ataru>	Except I haven't played with a dynamic option.
[19:04]	<Soresu>	Support Ataru's with archiving
[19:04]	<Bllasae>	Alright, I support it
[19:04]	<Pranay_Sobusk>	i like ataru's page
[19:04]	<Jedimca0>	Per Soresu
[19:04]	<Ataru>	I can add archiving and reasoning fields easily.
[19:04]	<Enochf>	Where's the old one?
[19:04]	<Graestan>	WP:RFP
[19:04]	<Ataru>	http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:RFP
[19:04]	<Imperialles>	Support.
[19:05]	<ChackJadson>	Support
[19:05]	<Toprawa>	Support
[19:05]	<Graestan>	Support, please add the field, though. :D
[19:05]	<Bllasae>	Support
[19:05]	<Jedimca0>	support
[19:05]	<Enochf>	Oh, yeah, definite improvement, Ataru. Support, support x 10.
[19:05]	<Azzt|Maths>	support with reason
[19:05]	<Muuurgh>	Support.
[19:05]	<Imperialles>	The field will be added.
[19:05]	<Ataru>	Okay, then, and I'll add reasoning and archive capabilities.
[19:05]	<Gonk|Busy>	And the reason is you.
[19:05]	<Cylka>	support
[19:05]	<Toprawa>	ugh
[19:05]	<Toprawa>	Gonk :P
[19:05]	<Gonk|Busy>	XD
[19:05]	<Ataru>	If I can get a technical person to work with me, I might be able to get a dynamic one also.
[19:05]	<Ataru>	*dynamic alert section also
[19:05]	-->|	Mecenarylord has joined #wookieepedia
[19:05]	<Tyber>	i would suggest some headlines
[19:05]	<Imperialles>	Ask Xwing?
[19:06]	=-=	Mode #wookieepedia +v Mecenarylord by Toprawa
[19:06]	<Imperialles>	Anyway, proposal addopted.
[19:06]	<Ataru>	Ya, I'll check. But if it's approved, we can move on.
[19:06]	<AdmirableAckbar>	sounds a tad complicated for the strange people who actually use the page...
[19:06]	<Imperialles>	Let's move on.
[19:06]	<Imperialles>	Abolishing Wookieepedia:Award Proposals in the same vein as userbox proposals. See here for discussion. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 22:52, 13 January 2009 (UTC) Abolishing Wookieepedia:Award Proposals in the same vein as userbox proposals. See here for discussion. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 22:52, 13 January 2009 (UT
[19:06]	<Graestan>	http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Award_Proposals This is hilarious.
[19:06]	<AdmirableAckbar>	This one's pretty clear cut.
[19:06]	<Gonk|Busy>	Abolish
[19:06]	<Imperialles>	Relevant discussuon: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia_talk:Award_Proposals
[19:06]	<ChackJadson>	Support killing it quickly
[19:06]	<Toprawa>	BUT I HAVE TO AWARD SOMEONE FOR REACHING 200 EDITS!
[19:06]	<Graestan>	I really don't see much harm in the award proposals. I could live with or without them, to be honest. My only issue with the userbox proposal was that it became the prime focus of a number of users, when in my opinion the prime focus should always be article quality and coverage of source material by the site.
[19:06]	<Enochf>	Yeah
[19:06]	<Imperialles>	Kill it.
[19:06]	<Cylka>	Kill it.
[19:06]	<Soresu>	Kill him!
[19:06]	<Jedimca0>	Kill it.
[19:06]	<Graestan>	I make my own awards, though.
[19:06]	<Bllasae>	GTFO
[19:06]	<AdmirableAckbar>	If someone has a proposal, they can make it wherever Goodwood made his re-GAing userbox porposal.
[19:06]	<Tyber>	kill
[19:06]	<Enochf>	It was a nice gimmick for a while, but it's done
[19:06]	<Toprawa>	Donezo
[19:07]	<Graestan>	Per Acky.
[19:07]	<Ataru>	WP:AP is pretty useless.
[19:07]	-->|	RF has joined #wookieepedia
[19:07]	<Ataru>	We have plenty of awards, let's kill this.
[19:07]	<Grunny>	per acky
[19:07]	<Imperialles>	Award proposals are an artifact from like early 2005. It was created to encourage people to join up and edit. I think we're beyond that stage now.
[19:07]	=-=	Mode #wookieepedia +v RF by Toprawa
[19:07]	<Azzt|Maths>	kill
[19:07]	<RF>	...weird
[19:07]	<Jedimca0>	Per Imp
[19:07]	<AdmirableAckbar>	The whole award concept needs changing, but that's for another time.
[19:07]	<Pranay_Sobusk>	kill
[19:07]	<Toprawa>	Kill
[19:07]	<Imperialles>	Indeed, Acky
[19:07]	<Enochf>	Yay, we're in a new stage ^_^
[19:07]	<Enochf>	The Seldon Plan is over
[19:07]	<AdmirableAckbar>	I don't think I voted - kill
[19:07]	<Imperialles>	Welcome to Stage 2
[19:07]	=-=	Mode #wookieepedia +v NaruHina by Graestan
[19:07]	<Imperialles>	Anyway.
[19:07]	<Bllasae>	Alright, so that's a GTFO
[19:08]	<Imperialles>	Consensus is to kill. Remember to delete the links.
[19:08]	<Bllasae>	It's gone, right?
[19:08]	<Imperialles>	Yes.
[19:08]	<Mecenarylord>	K
[19:08]	<Imperialles>	Moving on.
[19:08]	<Imperialles>	Reconsidering Restoration of Capitalized Sectors. I continue to see sector names capitalized in works as recent as Millennium Falcon. This remains something not clearly given if literature is inconsistent and it produces a broken continuity. I would like all recent occurrences of sector names looked at. -- Riffsyphon1024 18:19, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
[19:08]	<Tyber>	let a droid clean that up
[19:08]	<Enochf>	Hmm
[19:08]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Since Riff didn't provide any examples...
[19:08]	<Graestan>	Capitalize per sources.
[19:08]	<Soresu>	I say capitalise
[19:08]	<Enochf>	I'd have to look in a few books...
[19:08]	<NaruHina>	Artooie needs some exercize
[19:08]	<Jedimca0>	Per Graestan
[19:08]	<Azzt|Maths>	per Grae
[19:08]	<Bllasae>	Capitalize
[19:08]	<Bllasae>	Per Grae
[19:08]	<Toprawa>	There is a /huge/ amount of variation on this one
[19:08]	<Grunny>	Per Grae
[19:08]	<Graestan>	In quite a few cases, sectors have been capitalized. I wasn't around for the discussion to decapitalize them, but I imagine only a few newer sources came into play.
[19:08]	<Graestan>	It's really better English to capitalize them, when it's the title of a sector.
[19:08]	<Enochf>	No, no, regardless of sources, *we* need to be consistent
[19:08]	<NaruHina>	Capitalize
[19:08]	<Tyber>	is there an example?
[19:08]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Mindor's capitalization seems a bit off anyway. "Standard" is capitalized in terms of time, and I don't think it generally is.
[19:09]	<ChackJadson>	I support consistency
[19:09]	<Imperialles>	Consistency!
[19:09]	<ChackJadson>	Whatever that may be
[19:09]	<Fiolli>	I say postpone until after the Essential Atlas comes out and see what they do there.
[19:09]	<Toprawa>	I don't agree with just going with sources. I think we should make our own policy given the huge variation
[19:09]	<Tyber>	per fiolli
[19:09]	<NaruHina>	Per Fiolli
[19:09]	<Fiolli>	That would be a good mark and determinant.
[19:09]	<AdmirableAckbar>	If something is consistently capitalized within canon, like Corporate Sector, capitalize.
[19:09]	<Imperialles>	Per Fiolli
[19:09]	<Graestan>	Just because 1 or 2 lame newer sources were used for all-encompassing decaps.
[19:09]	<Tyber>	may clear that issue up
[19:09]	<Jedimca0>	Per Fiolli
[19:09]	<Bllasae>	Per Filli
[19:09]	<Graestan>	very per Fiolli
[19:09]	<AdmirableAckbar>	If something is not capatilized consistently and then one source capitalizes, do not capitalize.
[19:09]	<Bllasae>	Fiolli*
[19:09]	<Ataru>	Per Fiolli.
[19:09]	<Azzt|Maths>	per Fiolli
[19:09]	<Gonk|Busy>	Per Fiolli. The definition of sector may yet be clarified.
[19:10]	<Enochf>	When's the Atlas out?
[19:10]	<Ataru>	Except tell LFL to stop delaying that book!
[19:10]	<Fiolli>	July 21.
[19:10]	<Bllasae>	Alright, so Fiolli wins
[19:10]	<Tyber>	until then per grae: capitalize by source
[19:10]	<Enochf>	Yikes
[19:10]	<AdmirableAckbar>	So we stick with what we have until then?
[19:10]	<Enochf>	My sister's giving birth before that LOL
[19:10]	<Fiolli>	lol
[19:10]	<ChackJadson>	Until then, leave as is
[19:10]	<Bllasae>	Enochf: Good for her
[19:10]	<Graestan>	Enochf: Is she pregnant yet? :P
[19:10]	<Imperialles>	Leave as is until the Atlas.
[19:10]	<Enochf>	Heh
[19:10]	<NaruHina>	Happy Birthday
[19:10]	<Bllasae>	Grae: lol
[19:10]	<Mecenarylord>	Per Bllasae
[19:10]	<Jedimca0>	XD
[19:10]	* Fiolli	facepalms.
[19:10]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Okay, works for me.
[19:10]	<Toprawa>	Let's focus.
[19:10]	<Graestan>	Ok, good time frame.
[19:10]	<Fiolli>	XD
[19:10]	<Azzt|Maths>	lolgrae
[19:10]	<Imperialles>	Issue postphoned, moving on.
[19:10]	=-=	Ataru has changed the topic to “Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: CTs inbound - Channel status: Sector capitalization. Topic is: WP:RFP. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: [Redacted by administration]”
[19:11]	<Imperialles>	Very well.
[19:11]	<Imperialles>	Next one.
[19:11]	<Imperialles>	# Renominating previous Quotes of the Day: Be it resolved that a QOTD can be renominated, providing that the vote threshold be raised. Whereas a first-time QOTD requires a total of +10, a second-time QOTD would require a higher total, a third-time QOTD higher still. My suggestion is that the vote threshold be raised by +5 for every time: +15 for a second appearance, +20 for third, etc. An interval of +3 might also be acceptable. I'll go wi
[19:11]	<Imperialles>	th the consensus, assuming there's agreement on the renomination system.
[19:11]	<Ataru>	Any objectors to that will be shot. :-P
[19:12]	<Bllasae>	Survivors will be shot again
[19:12]	<Graestan>	Per whatever Enochf wants.
[19:12]	<Azzt|Maths>	strong support
[19:12]	<Toprawa>	Re-use quotes!
[19:12]	<Graestan>	It's his show. ;)
[19:12]	<Ataru>	Per Grae.
[19:12]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Per Grae.
[19:12]	<Imperialles>	Whatever Enoch Forrester wants.
[19:12]	<Bllasae>	Re-use the quotes
[19:12]	<Tyber>	there are so much quotes, so re-use them
[19:12]	<NaruHina>	Its all Enoc
[19:12]	<Fiolli>	I agree.
[19:12]	<Enochf>	Mostly because the really good OT ones have been done, and they'd easily make a +15 threshold
[19:12]	<Jedimca0>	Per Graestan
[19:12]	<Bllasae>	But as long as the requirements have to be higher every time
[19:12]	<Tyber>	support, i do
[19:12]	<Cylka>	Per Grae.
[19:12]	<Gonk|Busy>	Support +5 increments
[19:12]	<Azzt|Maths>	per G*nk
[19:12]	<Muuurgh>	Support.
[19:12]	<NaruHina>	Needs a time between uses policy
[19:13]	<Soresu>	Per naru
[19:13]	<Enochf>	Ooh, hadn't thought of that
[19:13]	<Tyber>	per naru
[19:13]	<Enochf>	Six months?
[19:13]	=-=	Glaug-Eldare is now known as Glaug-Away
[19:13]	<NaruHina>	No one wants It's a trap every Friday
[19:13]	<Graestan>	Six months!
[19:13]	<Enochf>	LOL
[19:13]	<Gonk|Busy>	Six months works
[19:13]	<Azzt|Maths>	6 months and +5 votes per time
[19:13]	<Fiolli>	One year.
[19:13]	<Ataru>	Meh. A year? Six months?
[19:13]	<Enochf>	Six months is kind of a magic number here
[19:13]	<Tyber>	6 months
[19:13]	<Enochf>	It's like our "40 days"
[19:13]	<Azzt|Maths>	NaruHina: even if it is a trap?
[19:13]	<Toprawa>	whatever Enochf wants
[19:13]	<Fiolli>	Six months plus five votes.
[19:13]	<NaruHina>	6 months is good
[19:13]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Imp: btw, if you haven't already you might want to reload, since I believe more agenda items have been added.
[19:13]	<Imperialles>	Will do.
[19:13]	<Pranay_Sobusk>	6 months
[19:13]	<Ataru>	Ya, 2 new ones.
[19:13]	<Bllasae>	3 months and +10 votes
[19:13]	<NaruHina>	The trap is like the Cabal
[19:13]	<Jedimca0>	heh
[19:14]	<Fiolli>	There is no cabal.
[19:14]	<Tyber>	there is no cabal
[19:14]	<Bllasae>	!cabal
[19:14]	* Nuku-Nuku	would like to remind everyone that There Is No Cabal.
[19:14]	<RF>	There is no trap
[19:14]	<NaruHina>	Exactly
[19:14]	<Azzt|Maths>	TINC
[19:14]	<Graestan>	Enochf: What's your new proposal with time limit?
[19:14]	<NaruHina>	Exactly
[19:14]	=-=	Mode #wookieepedia -v NaruHina by Toprawa
[19:14]	<Ataru>	TOPIC
[19:14]	<Bllasae>	Lol Toprawa
[19:14]	<Azzt|Maths>	6 months and +5 votes per
[19:14]	<Azzt|Maths>	?
[19:14]	<Soresu>	6 months—+5
[19:14]	<Fiolli>	Yes.
[19:14]	<Mecenarylord>	Si
[19:14]	<AdmirableAckbar>	I've a question.
[19:14]	<Bllasae>	Fine
[19:14]	<Tyber>	whatever
[19:14]	<Enochf>	Well, my proposal with some prompting from Naru, yeah, 6 mos
[19:15]	<Mecenarylord>	Yes Acky?
[19:15]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Is that six months between when it's on the main page and when it's eligible for nomination, or six months' time between each occurrence of it on the main page?
[19:15]	<Bllasae>	both?
[19:15]	=-=	Mode #wookieepedia +v NaruHina by Graestan
[19:15]	<Azzt|Maths>	occurrence
[19:15]	<Enochf>	Yeah, we're so far ahead ^_^
[19:15]	<Enochf>	Occurrence, though
[19:15]	<Tyber>	occurence
[19:15]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Okay, works for me.
[19:15]	<Imperialles>	Alright. All in favor of Enoch's thing?
[19:16]	<Imperialles>	Aye.
[19:16]	<Jedimca0>	support
[19:16]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Aye.
[19:16]	<Azzt|Maths>	aye aye
[19:16]	<Mecenarylord>	Aye
[19:16]	<Soresu>	Yes
[19:16]	<Cylka>	yes
[19:16]	<Tyber>	agreed
[19:16]	<Ataru>	Aye
[19:16]	<Muuurgh>	Support
[19:16]	<Gonk|Busy>	aye
[19:16]	<Bllasae>	Yes
[19:16]	<NaruHina>	Yes
[19:16]	<Pranay_Sobusk>	sure
[19:16]	<Enochf>	:D
[19:16]	<Toprawa>	Aye
[19:16]	<Fiolli>	Yes.
[19:16]	<Grunny>	yep
[19:16]	<Enochf>	And, er, aye, y'know
[19:16]	<Imperialles>	No naysayers.
[19:16]	<Imperialles>	Excellent. Moving on.
[19:16]	<Graestan>	I ob-a ject.
[19:16]	<Jedimca0>	Next?
[19:16]	<Imperialles>	Making a Dash policy official. While it might seem trivial considering the issues above, I would like to see WP:DASH made an official policy, as well. — Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 00:36, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
[19:16]	<Gonk|Busy>	STRONG SUPPORT
[19:16]	<Toprawa>	Oh, please!!!
[19:16]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Support.
[19:16]	<Fiolli>	YES!
[19:16]	<Imperialles>	Strong support.
[19:16]	<Toprawa>	haha
[19:16]	<NaruHina>	YES
[19:16]	<Soresu>	yes
[19:16]	=-=	Ataru has changed the topic to “Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: CTs inbound - Channel status: Dash proposal. Topic is: WP:RFP. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: [Redacted by administration]”
[19:16]	-->|	Ozzel has joined #wookieepedia
[19:16]	=-=	Mode #wookieepedia +o Ozzel by Nuku-Nuku
[19:16]	<Mecenarylord>	si
[19:16]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Would this be a bannable offense, then?
[19:17]	<Toprawa>	yes
[19:17]	<ChackJadson>	So is this a policy on the dash or the mdash code as well?
[19:17]	<Toprawa>	:P
[19:17]	<Imperialles>	Any objections at all?
[19:17]	<Gonk|Busy>	PERMABANNABLE OFFENSE
[19:17]	<Enochf>	Oh, yeah
[19:17]	<Bllasae>	Ackbar: I hope this is sarcasm
[19:17]	=-=	Gonk|Busy is now known as Gonk|Smash
[19:17]	<Enochf>	Looks good to me
[19:17]	<NaruHina>	Not unless we put it on the Welcome sign
[19:17]	<ChackJadson>	Get what I'm asking? Do we use the actual dash, or the code, as we do now?
[19:17]	<Enochf>	Does DASH mention you're not supposed to use them after adverbs?
[19:17]	<Imperialles>	The code.
[19:17]	<Graestan>	Support.
[19:17]	<Fiolli>	Code.
[19:17]	<Toprawa>	Code
[19:17]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Support.
[19:17]	<Azzt|Maths>	Ataru: shouldn't that be Channel status: Mofference. Topic is: DASH proposal ?
[19:17]	<NaruHina>	Code
[19:17]	<Enochf>	As in "strongly-worded letter" = WRONG
[19:17]	<Cylka>	Support
[19:17]	<Imperialles>	Because in the text editor, dashes are indistinguishable from hyphens
[19:17]	<Soresu>	—
[19:17]	<ChackJadson>	Support, I suppose
[19:18]	<Jedimca0>	Support
[19:18]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Enochf: huh?
[19:18]	<ChackJadson>	Actually, no "suppose" :P
[19:18]	<Fiolli>	Support; with great enthusiasm.
[19:18]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Oh, nevermind I see it.
[19:18]	<Ozzel>	If this is what I thin k it is, I oppose.
[19:18]	<Tyber>	heh
[19:18]	<Bllasae>	what's the code now?
[19:18]	<Toprawa>	I also reiterate my huge support
[19:18]	<NaruHina>	I think it should be for divisions in prose only
[19:18]	<Imperialles>	Dash policy, Ozzel
[19:18]	<Ataru>	Abstain. Haven't actually read this one.
[19:18]	<Bllasae>	And will it be - or the code?
[19:18]	<Soresu>	code
[19:18]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Code.
[19:18]	<Cylka>	code
[19:18]	<ChackJadson>	Not - !!!
[19:18]	<NaruHina>	If you have to do post--mordem
[19:18]	<Imperialles>	Code.
[19:18]	<Bllasae>	and the code is?
[19:18]	<Soresu>	— not this
[19:18]	<Toprawa>	Code
[19:18]	<Tyber>	code
[19:18]	<NaruHina>	It looks wierd
[19:18]	<Gonk|Smash>	—
[19:18]	<Imperialles>	—
[19:19]	<Imperialles>	–
[19:19]	<Bllasae>	alright
[19:19]	<Bllasae>	- is easier, though
[19:19]	<Enochf>	Could someone make a template for displaying dates in that fashion?
[19:19]	<AdmirableAckbar>	And looks bad.
[19:19]	<Imperialles>	Why do you oppose, Ozzel?
[19:19]	<ChackJadson>	I prefer the actual dash, but whatever
[19:19]	<Bllasae>	Chack: me too
[19:19]	<Ozzel>	Like, forcing people to use the code instead of the real thing?
[19:19]	-->|	SquishyVic has joined #wookieepedia
[19:19]	<Imperialles>	<Imperialles> Because in the text editor, dashes are indistinguishable from hyphens
[19:19]	<AdmirableAckbar>	I can't make an actual dash on my keyboard. Not a long one, anyway.
[19:19]	=-=	Mode #wookieepedia +v SquishyVic by Toprawa
[19:20]	<Bllasae>	wow
[19:20]	<Bllasae>	that was neat
[19:20]	-->|	Whiteboy has joined #wookieepedia
[19:20]	<Soresu>	alt+0151
[19:20]	<Tyber>	double-voiced
[19:20]	<Imperialles>	Hey, Chad.
[19:20]	<SquishyVic>	option minus?
[19:20]	<SquishyVic>	?
[19:20]	=-=	Mode #wookieepedia -v Bllasae by Ataru
[19:20]	=-=	Mode #wookieepedia +o Whiteboy by Ataru
[19:20]	<SquishyVic>	shift+option+minus
[19:20]	<Ozzel>	I just don't think it's necessary.There's codes for all kinds of things, but we don't fors them.
[19:20]	<Tyber>	ah, that's not userfriendly
[19:20]	<Ozzel>	*force
[19:20]	<Mecenarylord>	Hey Vic and Chad
[19:20]	<Whiteboy>	howdy :)
[19:20]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Where the heck is option?
[19:20]	<Gonk|Smash>	Acky: Mac.
[19:20]	<SquishyVic>	Wait, do you have a Mac?
[19:20]	<Ataru>	TOPIC, please.
[19:21]	<Enochf>	Just use — or –
[19:21]	<Fiolli>	Ozzel: The actual vote is whether or not WP:DASH is going to become policy.
[19:21]	<Soresu>	I use alt+0151
[19:21]	<SquishyVic>	:P
[19:21]	<Muuurgh>	Somewhere on a Mac keyboard.
[19:21]	<Jedimca0>	per Enochf
[19:21]	<Enochf>	I type those codes out all the time in QOTD
[19:21]	<Whiteboy>	I'm here ...kinda :p
[19:21]	<Fiolli>	I could care less about — verses the real thing.
[19:21]	<Imperialles>	I see tons of supports, one oppose.
[19:21]	<Jedimca0>	and... per Atary... stay on topic.
[19:21]	<Jedimca0>	*ataru
[19:21]	<Ozzel>	Ok, my bad for being out of the loop. I haven't looked at said policy.
[19:21]	<Whiteboy>	(as usual, right?)
[19:21]	<Ataru>	Wooops
[19:21]	<SquishyVic>	Sorry
[19:21]	<AdmirableAckbar>	:/
[19:21]	<Fiolli>	o_o
[19:21]	<Azzt|Maths>	>_>
[19:21]	<Enochf>	P.S. On a related topic, I prefer three periods to the silly "ellipses" character.
[19:21]	<Tyber>	XD
[19:21]	=-=	Mode #wookieepedia +v Bllasae by Ataru
[19:21]	<Bllasae>	XD
[19:21]	<Imperialles>	Three periods is not correct,though
[19:21]	<ChackJadson>	Per Enochf
[19:21]	<Graestan>	Considering 9/10 of the people who review articles change dashes to — , why not?
[19:21]	<Jedimca0>	heh
[19:21]	<Azzt|Maths>	per Imp
[19:21]	<NaruHina>	Does one voice make up for -2 op?
[19:22]	<NaruHina>	Per imp
[19:22]	<Gonk|Smash>	I think this vote is done.
[19:22]	<Imperialles>	Anyway. Policy adopted. Moving on.
[19:22]	<Enochf>	If three periods is wrong, I don't wanna be right
[19:22]	=-=	NaruHina was booted from #wookieepedia by Toprawa (Toprawa)
[19:22]	<Imperialles>	Renovating succession boxes. I have been working on a draft idea for proposed changes to the succession boxes based upon the input of many users. I would like to present the idea and have it voted upon. All input is welcome. — Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 00:52, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
[19:22]	-->|	NaruHina has joined #wookieepedia
[19:22]	<Mecenarylord>	Please
[19:22]	<AdmirableAckbar>	I have a question for Fiolli.
[19:22]	<Enochf>	Hmm
[19:22]	<Imperialles>	Fiolly, the floor is yours.
[19:22]	<ChackJadson>	I like Fiolli's proposal. It's certainly an improvement
[19:22]	<Imperialles>	Fiolli*
[19:22]	<ChackJadson>	Sorry Fi
[19:22]	<SquishyVic>	Where is this proposal?
[19:22]	<Fiolli>	I would like to direct everyone's attention to http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Jedimasterfiolli/studio
[19:22]	<Gonk|Smash>	We must take the succ out of succession boxes.
[19:22]	<Graestan>	Per Fiolli's deal.
[19:22]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Is this because of the non-sourcing thing with the succession boxes or for purely aesthetic reasons?
[19:23]	<Graestan>	It's so much better.
[19:23]	<Enochf>	Following linky
[19:23]	<Graestan>	Fiolli, Master of Templates.
[19:23]	<Cylka>	Looks great!
[19:23]	<Fiolli>	This has nothing to do with the sourcing issue. This is all aesthetic and making it look better and more usable.
[19:23]	<Imperialles>	Looks nice
[19:23]	<Whiteboy>	lol @ Gonk
[19:23]	<Enochf>	I didn't notice any problems with the original boxes, so... abstain
[19:23]	<Toprawa>	great idea, Fiolli
[19:23]	<Pranay_Sobusk>	support, it really looks better
[19:23]	<Bllasae>	Agree with Fiolli
[19:23]	<Ozzel>	Anywho, can't stay. You folks have fun with your Moffing.
[19:23]	<Imperialles>	Strong support, then
[19:23]	|<--	Ozzel has left irc.freenode.net ("James Bond will return")
[19:23]	<Azzt|Maths>	per Whiteboy :P
[19:23]	<Soresu>	support
[19:23]	<AdmirableAckbar>	I don't understand...would this be using templates, or actual code on the page?
[19:24]	|<--	R_F has left irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out)
[19:24]	<Tyber>	the colors have to be reviewed
[19:24]	<Jedimca0>	templates... I think...
[19:24]	<Imperialles>	I would like to state for the record that Ozzel is a grouch.
[19:24]	<Fiolli>	The boxes are adaptable, meaning no changes would have to be made. All the code listed would be substituted onto the template pages.
[19:24]	<Graestan>	If we can make the templates work, then that's that.
[19:24]	<Fiolli>	That way it would be a template, and not source code.
[19:24]	<Graestan>	Support.
[19:24]	<Toprawa>	Support
[19:24]	<AdmirableAckbar>	I think I get you.
[19:24]	<Azzt|Maths>	per Imp and Fiolli
[19:24]	<Ataru>	Support.
[19:24]	<AdmirableAckbar>	A template you could alter, right?
[19:24]	<Cylka>	Support.
[19:24]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Not a navbox?
[19:24]	<Fiolli>	The colors were chosen arbitrarily, but I think we could hash that out as it goes.
[19:24]	<Mecenarylord>	Support
[19:24]	<Grunny>	support
[19:24]	<Tyber>	support
[19:24]	<Fiolli>	Currently, Acky, we use succession box templates.
[19:24]	<Jedimca0>	Support.
[19:24]	<Soresu>	support
[19:24]	<Imperialles>	Anyone opposed to this?
[19:25]	<AdmirableAckbar>	I think I might be.
[19:25]	<Mecenarylord>	I say we move on
[19:25]	<AdmirableAckbar>	I'm trying to work it.
[19:25]	<Mecenarylord>	Why Acky
[19:25]	<Gonk|Smash>	supporrrrrt
[19:25]	<Mecenarylord>	Ah
[19:25]	<Fiolli>	What's up, Acky?
[19:25]	<SquishyVic>	Looking now
[19:25]	<SquishyVic>	Beautiful
[19:25]	<SquishyVic>	Support :P
[19:25]	<Enochf>	Don't oppose
[19:25]	=-=	Ataru has changed the topic to “Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: CTs inbound - Channel status: Succession boxes - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: [Redacted by administration]”
[19:25]	<Ataru>	Jeez, keep forgetting to do that.
[19:25]	<Jedimca0>	heh
[19:25]	<Fiolli>	Ataru: How about taking the "succ" out of succession boxes? :D
[19:25]	<Graestan>	I'm pretty sure it just won. ;)
[19:25]	<Imperialles>	Oh, by the way. The default blue of the template... should be the one used elsewhere on the site
[19:26]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Sorry, I haven't gotten to properly look at the policy page, but would this be putting something like {{whatever|19 ABY|blah blah blah|blah}} or just {{New Republic CoS}}?
[19:26]	<Graestan>	Per Imp.
[19:26]	<Gonk|Smash>	oo, there's a new agenda item ^_^
[19:26]	<Fiolli>	One sec, Acky.
[19:26]	<Tyber>	yes
[19:26]	<Graestan>	LIGHTNING ROUND
[19:26]	<SquishyVic>	So, would those arrows actually work?
[19:26]	<Ataru>	Hey, I think we've moved on.
[19:27]	<Imperialles>	Yes.
[19:27]	<Ataru>	Imp?
[19:27]	<SquishyVic>	Oh.
[19:27]	<AdmirableAckbar>	No, please.
[19:27]	<SquishyVic>	Bah.
[19:27]	<Tyber>	move on
[19:27]	<Ataru>	I believe there's one other topic'
[19:27]	<AdmirableAckbar>	I'm waiting on Fi.
[19:27]	<Graestan>	Apply single-issue voters policy at Mofferences. I.e. you have to be part of the site to make decisions on IRC. Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 01:16, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
[19:27]	<Bllasae>	brb|popcorn
[19:27]	<Graestan>	Support.
[19:27]	<Fiolli>	One sec, guys. Wikia is busted.
[19:27]	<Jedimca0>	Support
[19:27]	<Soresu>	support
[19:27]	=-=	Ataru has changed the topic to “Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: CTs inbound - Channel status: This is the Mofference. Topic is: Single issue voters applies to Mofference- Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: [Redacted by administration]”
[19:27]	<AdmirableAckbar>	or not...
[19:27]	<Imperialles>	New look adopted.
[19:27]	<AdmirableAckbar>	Support
[19:27]	<Toprawa>	Support
[19:27]	<Imperialles>	Support.
[19:27]	<Grunny>	Support
[19:27]	<Gonk|Smash>	Support
[19:27]	<Bllasae>	Support
[19:27]	<Cylka>	Support.
[19:27]	<Enochf>	How meta
[19:27]	<Enochf>	Support
[19:27]	<ChackJadson>	Support
[19:27]	<Tyber>	support
[19:27]	<Imperialles>	I guess we just assumed no one else would be interested :p
[19:27]	<Fiolli>	Support.
[19:27]	<Mecenarylord>	Support
[19:27]	<Soresu>	on 50 per QOTD?
[19:27]	<Ataru>	Support, duh.
[19:27]	<SquishyVic>	O_O
[19:27]	<Pranay_Sobusk>	support
[19:28]	<Mecenarylord>	Any naysayers
[19:28]	<Soresu>	is it 50 mainspace
[19:28]	<Ataru>	It hit me that we have lots of lurking people in IRC. So, check your IDs at the door from now on.
[19:28]	<Whiteboy>	sounds good
[19:28]	<Imperialles>	Seems not.
[19:28]	<Imperialles>	Proposal adopted.
[19:28]	<Jedimca0>	Soresu: I think it is...
[19:28]	<Ataru>	If you're coming to the Mofference, that is.
[19:28]	<Fiolli>	Explained to Acky in PM, for the record.
[19:28]	<Imperialles>	Mofference ends here. Thank you for attending.