sep 09 02:00:01 <Imperialles> I bid you all Dark Greetings! Welcome to the Wookieepedia Mofference. sep 09 02:00:03 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: IRC policies sep 09 02:00:06 <Imperialles> Silence, you. sep 09 02:00:10 * Imperialles coughs sep 09 02:00:20 <Enochf> Ricola? sep 09 02:00:20 <Imperialles> IRC Policies – It seems we need some. Specific issues include: sep 09 02:00:20 <Imperialles> * Civility. Wookieepedia-style NPA rules may not work too well in IRC, even if we want them to. How then do we establish guidelines? Or do we? sep 09 02:00:20 <Imperialles> * Preventing Whining. Civility guidelines that are too strict may result in IRC devolving into preschool recess. (And don't give me that shocked look. We all know there are lots and lots of idiots about.) sep 09 02:00:20 <Imperialles> * Operator Privileges. Freenode doesn't want us to use them except when necessary. Some feel they're necessary so often that we ought to just keep people opped. sep 09 02:00:20 <Imperialles> * Boot Policy. Even if no other policies can be agreed upon, perhaps simply determining appropriate situations to boot someone (versus mute the channel, an option that could suffice for most disruptions IMO) and requiring operators to adhere to that might be enough. Some users feel this prohibits the opportunity to have fun with booting. Gonk (Gonk!) 22:54, 28 August 2007 (UTC) sep 09 02:00:33 <Imperialles> Gonk has some proposals, Culator has some proposals. sep 09 02:00:39 <Gonk> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Gonk/Mofference sep 09 02:00:46 <Gonk> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Darth_Culator/proposedIRCrules sep 09 02:00:47 * Ozzel|Away is now known as Ozzel sep 09 02:01:05 <Jedi_Goodwood> I like the general rule of "Don't be a Dick", but I'd like to see a bit more definition to the term. sep 09 02:01:30 <Imperialles> I like the loose definition. sep 09 02:01:35 <Gonk> I intended it mainly to mean"NPA doesn't apply in IRC, buuuuut..." sep 09 02:01:38 <Jedi_Goodwood> Also, I think trollers and those who provoke arguments ought to be prone to the same sanctions. sep 09 02:01:46 <Jedi_Goodwood> I see, and agree. sep 09 02:01:48 <Grey-man> I tend to like both Gonk's and Culator's points sep 09 02:01:51 <The4dotelipsis0> I don't think we should have NPA in here. sep 09 02:01:53 <Enochf> Huh. No objections the proposed... are those really our biggest problems, though? sep 09 02:01:55 <Imperialles> I don't know. sep 09 02:02:01 <The4dotelipsis0> This is like a Lounge Room for Wookieepedia. sep 09 02:02:17 <Imperialles> Culator's 1, 2 and 4 are just the thing that he and Jaymach were doing before they got demoted. sep 09 02:02:25 <Imperialles> I like his #3, but that's it. sep 09 02:02:29 <Darth_Culator> Not really. sep 09 02:02:29 <The4dotelipsis0> It's a place where nice, fun, heated and dirty debate doesn't actually disrupt Wookieepedia. sep 09 02:02:36 <Jedi_Goodwood> I don't like the fact that certain users can get away with provoking disruptions while the other disruptive party gets sanctioned. sep 09 02:02:43 <jSarek> I don't think blanket bans on political or religious discussion should be in effect, so long as they're handled civilly and don't interfere with Wook business. sep 09 02:03:01 <The4dotelipsis0> Per jSarek. sep 09 02:03:04 <Jedimca0> agreed sep 09 02:03:06 <Jedi_Goodwood> Agreed. sep 09 02:03:08 <Graestan> The politics and/or religion should at least be stopped upon any user's request. sep 09 02:03:08 <Gonk> Strong not per jSarek sep 09 02:03:18 <Gonk> ok, per Grae sep 09 02:03:31 <Jedi_Goodwood> Grae's caveat is god. sep 09 02:03:33 <jSarek> I can live with that caveat. sep 09 02:03:34 <Jedi_Goodwood> good. sep 09 02:03:34 <Gonk> But SW attracts a lot of people from VERY varied political and religious backgrounds. sep 09 02:03:38 <The4dotelipsis0> Yes. sep 09 02:03:39 <Gonk> We need SOME sort of policy. sep 09 02:03:41 <Havac> I like both proposals. sep 09 02:03:41 <The4dotelipsis0> Cave at. sep 09 02:03:56 <Gonk> I am extremely uncomfortable with relaxing the policy, but I can live with Grae's proposal. sep 09 02:04:08 <Imperialles> "English is the official language of the Wookieepedia IRC. We don't care if it's British or American. "L33t" or "TXT" are NOT English, and their use will be grounds for kicking." sep 09 02:04:10 <Havac> And politics happens anyway, we just shut it down when it gets out of hand. sep 09 02:04:11 * LucidFox (n=LucidFox@wikia/Sikon) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 02:04:11 <Graestan> I think it's good, if everyone respects it. sep 09 02:04:11 * Nuku-Nuku gives channel operator status to LucidFox sep 09 02:04:12 * Ataru (n=chatzill@wikia/Ataru) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 02:04:14 <Darth_Culator> My number 4 is basically the same as Gonk's number 2. sep 09 02:04:18 <jSarek> Hello Sikon, Ataru. sep 09 02:04:22 <Ataru> Hello sep 09 02:04:23 * Grey-man gives channel operator status to Ataru sep 09 02:04:25 <ChackJadson> Hey Ataru sep 09 02:04:28 <Ozzel> Please see here for my opinions on the issues during my short absence: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Ozzel/Mofference sep 09 02:04:30 * Ozzel is now known as Ozzel|Away sep 09 02:04:32 <Enochf> TXT? sep 09 02:04:36 <Imperialles> Culator's #1 is just lame. We're not going to kick someone because they can't spell. sep 09 02:04:41 <Enochf> wht u mn lk ths? sep 09 02:04:42 <Havac> Yes we are. sep 09 02:04:43 <Darth_Culator> My number 1 is absolutely critical. If people can't be bothered to speak clearly, they shouldn't be allowed to speak at all. sep 09 02:04:45 <Jedi_Goodwood> Agree with Imp. sep 09 02:04:47 <Ataru> ner sep 09 02:04:47 <The4dotelipsis0> R U Gng 2 Scrbugh Fr? sep 09 02:04:50 <Graestan> L33T and TXT are annoying, but I think most real users don't violate this. sep 09 02:04:53 <Graestan> It's very specific. sep 09 02:04:54 <Gonk> Per Grae sep 09 02:04:55 <LucidFox> Has the Mofference started? sep 09 02:04:57 <Ataru> I will kick anyone who is off-topic sep 09 02:05:00 <Imperialles> L33T and TXT are dead horses. sep 09 02:05:01 <Ataru> as soon as it starts sep 09 02:05:01 <Havac> It's not about misspelling. sep 09 02:05:01 <jSarek> Sikon: Yes. sep 09 02:05:09 <Jedi_Goodwood> Grae is right, I feel. sep 09 02:05:11 <Havac> It's about spelling like a 12-year-old texting. sep 09 02:05:12 <Imperialles> I have it under control, Ataru. sep 09 02:05:14 <Gonk> Imp bade us dark greetings already sep 09 02:05:15 <Ataru> Ok sep 09 02:05:21 <Jedimca0> per Graestan sep 09 02:05:33 <Enochf> I think impersonating a newbie for giggles should be a kickable offense sep 09 02:05:43 <ChackJadson> Good idea sep 09 02:05:43 <The4dotelipsis0> Yeah. sep 09 02:05:44 <Jedi_Goodwood> Per enochf. sep 09 02:05:45 <Jedimca0> Agreed sep 09 02:05:46 <Ataru> Are we on agenda yet? sep 09 02:05:47 <LtNOWIS> Yeah, lazy writing is not the same as 12 year old AOL writing. sep 09 02:05:50 <AdmirableAckbar> Yes sep 09 02:05:51 <The4dotelipsis0> All impersonations since Jorrel's have been lame. sep 09 02:05:52 <Jedi_Goodwood> Yes Ataru. sep 09 02:05:52 <Imperialles> yes, see the topic. sep 09 02:05:55 <Havac> I think we shouldn't have to categorize kickable offenses. sep 09 02:05:55 <jSarek> I think some leeway should be allowed at the discretion of the admins regarding spelling and language. sep 09 02:06:01 <Gonk> I just worry that a too-precise rule about spelling will prohibit people from saying AFAIK and IIRC, etc. (and ETC.) sep 09 02:06:03 <Ataru> Agree with that, yes sep 09 02:06:08 <Havac> I say we just, you know, use this thing called "Common sense". sep 09 02:06:09 <Graestan> per Gonk sep 09 02:06:14 <The4dotelipsis0> Subjective. sep 09 02:06:18 <Ataru> It's a chat room, spelling shouldn't be that restricted sep 09 02:06:18 <GreenTentacle> Per Havac. sep 09 02:06:23 <Imperialles> Subjective is good, in this case. sep 09 02:06:24 <Graestan> case-by-case, leave it up to admins sep 09 02:06:30 <Ataru> And if someone is spelling that badly, they're probably doing something else wrong sep 09 02:06:35 <Grey-man> Common sense works sep 09 02:06:36 <jSarek> I mean, for Grae and I to be kicked for a little fun Klingon conversation like we had earlier is silly. Had we gone overboard, though . . . boot. sep 09 02:06:41 <Gonk> :) sep 09 02:06:43 <Graestan> per jSarek sep 09 02:06:56 <Graestan> We know when to stop. sep 09 02:06:57 <StarNeptune> oh, this started sep 09 02:06:57 <Jedimca0> agreed sep 09 02:07:01 <Havac> And common sense passes! sep 09 02:07:03 <StarNeptune> Now I got to leave...rofl sep 09 02:07:06 <Ataru> lol sep 09 02:07:06 <Jedi_Goodwood> lol sep 09 02:07:09 <Jedi_Goodwood> See ya Star. sep 09 02:07:12 <jSarek> Aww. :-( Bye Star. sep 09 02:07:16 * StarNeptune is now known as Star|AFK sep 09 02:07:17 <Ataru> Later sep 09 02:07:19 <Gonk> I also think all admins should be opped all the time. But that's a minor point. sep 09 02:07:24 <Ataru> Disagree sep 09 02:07:28 <Imperialles> Alright, vote time. "Don't be a dick. ...You will never be asked to be "nice," and personal attacks are unpreventable in IRC. But as a guideline, don't go out of your way to piss people off. Vicious abuse is grounds for sanctions." Adopt this rule? sep 09 02:07:28 <Jedi_Goodwood> Disagree. sep 09 02:07:34 <Imperialles> Adopt. sep 09 02:07:34 <Ataru> Adopt sep 09 02:07:37 <Ataru> We need this sep 09 02:07:37 <jSarek> Adopt. sep 09 02:07:38 <ChackJadson> Yes sep 09 02:07:38 <Darth_Culator> Ya. sep 09 02:07:39 <Jedi_Goodwood> Adopt. sep 09 02:07:39 <Enochf> DBAD YES sep 09 02:07:40 <GreenTentacle> Adopt. sep 09 02:07:40 <Gonk> Adopt sep 09 02:07:41 <Grey-man> Yes sep 09 02:07:41 <Jedimca0> yes sep 09 02:07:43 <AdmirableAckbar> Adopt sep 09 02:07:44 <Graestan> Adopt sep 09 02:07:46 <Imperialles> Rule adopted. sep 09 02:07:48 <Enochf> I sense consensus sep 09 02:07:52 <Imperialles> "No whining. ...Users who ask for something from another IRC user and are refused it should not stoop to [Redacted by administration], which is grounds for sanctions. It is acceptable to be persistent, but in a mature manner." Adopt this rule? sep 09 02:07:52 <Havac> Adopt. sep 09 02:07:57 <The4dotelipsis0> Leave on a doorstep. sep 09 02:07:57 <Havac> Adopt. sep 09 02:07:57 <Enochf> Eh sep 09 02:07:59 <Jedi_Goodwood> No. sep 09 02:08:00 <ChackJadson> Yeah sep 09 02:08:01 <AdmirableAckbar> Adopt sep 09 02:08:02 <Ataru> Adopt with some leeway sep 09 02:08:03 <Darth_Culator> Yes. sep 09 02:08:03 <jSarek> Adopt. sep 09 02:08:05 <Graestan> Specify: sep 09 02:08:05 <The4dotelipsis0> No. sep 09 02:08:06 <Gonk> Adopt instead of Culator's #4, which I think is too strict sep 09 02:08:07 <Enochf> Who is this aimed at? ^_^ sep 09 02:08:09 <GreenTentacle> Adopt. sep 09 02:08:11 <Jedimca0> yes sep 09 02:08:11 <Grey-man> Yes sep 09 02:08:11 <Imperialles> Per Ataru. sep 09 02:08:14 <Havac> Persistence should only be mature. sep 09 02:08:14 <jSarek> Per Gonk. sep 09 02:08:19 <Graestan> per Havac sep 09 02:08:20 <Gonk> per Havac sep 09 02:08:24 <LtNOWIS> sure sep 09 02:08:25 <AdmirableAckbar> yes sep 09 02:08:29 <The4dotelipsis0> I call elitism. sep 09 02:08:30 <Ataru> Some leeway should be given on this, but a good principle sep 09 02:08:36 <Havac> Exactly. sep 09 02:08:37 <Grey-man> yes sep 09 02:08:38 <Gonk> Leeway is good sep 09 02:08:39 <Graestan> yes sep 09 02:08:43 <Imperialles> We will word it to allow for leeway. sep 09 02:08:44 <AdmirableAckbar> yup sep 09 02:08:45 <Graestan> Warnings help. sep 09 02:08:45 <Jedimca0> agreed sep 09 02:08:48 <Ataru> Yes sep 09 02:08:50 <jSarek> 4dot: Clarify, how is this elitist? sep 09 02:08:50 <Ataru> Warnings good sep 09 02:08:55 <Gonk> Warnings, definitely sep 09 02:08:59 <Jedi_Goodwood> Warnings, yes. sep 09 02:08:59 <The4dotelipsis0> ...did I read the wrong thing? sep 09 02:09:02 <The4dotelipsis0> Some kinda lag? sep 09 02:09:05 <Graestan> No flying off the handle at offenders. Cool warnings. sep 09 02:09:07 <jSarek> Yes, definitely warning. sep 09 02:09:13 <The4dotelipsis0> We're kicking people for being immature even though they might be? sep 09 02:09:16 <Jedi_Goodwood> Per Graestan. sep 09 02:09:21 <Grey-man> Warnings for sure, kicks to follow sep 09 02:09:26 <Jedimca0> Per Graestan sep 09 02:09:35 <Jedimca0> agreed sep 09 02:09:38 <Gonk> For being continually, disruptively immature sep 09 02:09:53 <Ataru> Per Gonk sep 09 02:09:55 <Imperialles> The majority is in favor. Rule adopted. sep 09 02:09:58 <Imperialles> "No discussion of RL politics or religion. ...Grounds for sanctions." sep 09 02:09:59 <Jedi_Goodwood> Evolution. sep 09 02:10:00 <Imperialles> Adopt. sep 09 02:10:01 <The4dotelipsis0> As long as it's not a kneejerk and #wookieepedia doesn't turn into bloody 1984. sep 09 02:10:04 <Darth_Culator> Works for me. sep 09 02:10:05 <Graestan> Adopt sep 09 02:10:06 <Jedi_Goodwood> No. sep 09 02:10:07 <jSarek> Reject. sep 09 02:10:10 <Jedi_Goodwood> Reject. sep 09 02:10:10 <GreenTentacle> Reject. sep 09 02:10:12 <Jedimca0> No sep 09 02:10:15 <ChackJadson> Adopt sep 09 02:10:17 <Gonk> Graestan's compromise? sep 09 02:10:19 <Ataru> Reject sep 09 02:10:19 <The4dotelipsis0> Adopt. sep 09 02:10:20 <Graestan> Yes sep 09 02:10:32 <Grey-man> No sep 09 02:10:33 <jSarek> Adopt Graestan's compromise. sep 09 02:10:33 <Jedi_Goodwood> All in favor of Graestan's compromise: sep 09 02:10:36 <Jedi_Goodwood> Adopt. sep 09 02:10:37 <ChackJadson> Sure, use the compromise sep 09 02:10:38 <Graestan> Me! sep 09 02:10:39 <Gonk> Graestan's compromise sep 09 02:10:40 <Imperialles> Sure. sep 09 02:10:40 <Darth_Culator> Yes. Politics allowed with consent. sep 09 02:10:43 <Ataru> What is the compromise? sep 09 02:10:46 <Darth_Culator> Religion likewise. sep 09 02:10:51 <GreenTentacle> Graestan has a compromise? sep 09 02:10:52 <Graestan> If user objects, we all stop sep 09 02:10:55 <Grey-man> Consent works sep 09 02:10:58 <Imperialles> The "stop rule" sep 09 02:10:58 <AdmirableAckbar> Sure sep 09 02:11:00 <Jedimca0> Graestan's compromise sep 09 02:11:01 <Havac> Adopt Grae's. sep 09 02:11:03 <jSarek> Ataru: Political/Religious discussion allowed unless any user asks it to stop. sep 09 02:11:07 <Graestan> No means no, and such. sep 09 02:11:10 <GreenTentacle> Fine, go with Grae's. sep 09 02:11:11 <AdmirableAckbar> Adopt Grae sep 09 02:11:13 * Gonk sure hopes this works :) sep 09 02:11:19 <Imperialles> Graestan's rule adopted. sep 09 02:11:20 <Ataru> Eh . . . I somewhat dislike the idea because any random user can stop discussion sep 09 02:11:22 <Jedi_Goodwood> And it should not matter if the user who asks it to stop is a noob or not. sep 09 02:11:24 <Graestan> Help us enforce, Gonk. sep 09 02:11:27 <Ataru> Bah! sep 09 02:11:29 <Gonk> Oh I will sep 09 02:11:34 <jSarek> Ataru: Better than the discussion never being allowed in the first place. sep 09 02:11:43 <Imperialles> "English is the official language of the Wookieepedia IRC. We don't care if it's British or American. "L33t" or "TXT" are NOT English, and their use will be grounds for kicking." sep 09 02:11:45 <Imperialles> Adopt? sep 09 02:11:47 <Darth_Culator> YES sep 09 02:11:48 <Imperialles> Reject. sep 09 02:11:50 <Jedi_Goodwood> Reject. sep 09 02:11:50 <GreenTentacle> Adopt. sep 09 02:11:51 <Ataru> Reject sep 09 02:11:51 <The4dotelipsis0> Yes. sep 09 02:11:52 <Havac> Adopt. sep 09 02:11:54 <jSarek> Reject as written. sep 09 02:11:54 <The4dotelipsis0> My eyes hurt. sep 09 02:11:56 <Jedimca0> Yes sep 09 02:11:57 <Ataru> It's a kriffing chat room sep 09 02:11:58 <Gonk> And a sufficiently heated discussion can always go to Darthipedia IRC, where we have NO RULES :) sep 09 02:12:00 <Graestan> Warnings... sep 09 02:12:01 <Ataru> Not a grammar class sep 09 02:12:05 <Gonk> Adopt with leeway sep 09 02:12:08 <Gonk> and warnings sep 09 02:12:08 <Graestan> Leeway sep 09 02:12:11 <ChackJadson> Per Gonk sep 09 02:12:12 <Graestan> per Gonk sep 09 02:12:16 <jSarek> Per Gonk. sep 09 02:12:22 <Jedimca0> with leeway sep 09 02:12:23 <Havac> Banning LEET does not make it a fricking grammar class. sep 09 02:12:35 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Gonk sep 09 02:12:40 <The4dotelipsis0> It makes it a civilised discussion. sep 09 02:12:43 <Ataru> With lots of leeway . . . we have international visitors to #wookieepedia sep 09 02:12:48 <GreenTentacle> The odd abbreviation is fine, LEET is moronic. sep 09 02:12:50 <Jedi_Goodwood> What about LOL, BBL, AFK, AFAIK, IIRC, etc? sep 09 02:12:51 <Graestan> Indeed sep 09 02:12:51 <LtNOWIS> Lazy or drunk writing is different from "1337" sep 09 02:12:59 <Gonk> Those are fine Goodwood sep 09 02:13:02 <Imperialles> Consensus is in favor of Gonk's compromise. We will word the rule to allow for abbreviations. sep 09 02:13:03 <Ataru> Instruction creep! sep 09 02:13:04 <AdmirableAckbar> Yeah sep 09 02:13:05 <Jedi_Goodwood> I knew they would be. sep 09 02:13:06 <Imperialles> Rule adopted. sep 09 02:13:06 <Darth_Culator> & bnng abbrev8ns + sch s gud sep 09 02:13:10 <LtNOWIS> AFAIK is just efficiency. sep 09 02:13:12 <The4dotelipsis0> Instruction Creep is Horse Manure. sep 09 02:13:16 <Ataru> LIES! sep 09 02:13:19 <LtNOWIS> Writing it out would be dumb. sep 09 02:13:22 <Imperialles> "If you say something and nobody responds, you might have dropped connection. If you say something twice and nobody responds, they might be ignoring you. If you say the same thing three times, you're getting kicked." Adopt this rule? sep 09 02:13:23 <Jedi_Goodwood> lol sep 09 02:13:30 <Darth_Culator> Nutshell: No spamming. sep 09 02:13:30 <Havac> Yes. sep 09 02:13:31 <Jedi_Goodwood> Reject. sep 09 02:13:32 <Graestan> No sep 09 02:13:33 <Imperialles> Reject. sep 09 02:13:34 <Darth_Culator> Yes. sep 09 02:13:36 <Ataru> Not as worded sep 09 02:13:37 <Havac> Repetition, spamming, no good. sep 09 02:13:37 <ChackJadson> Reject sep 09 02:13:37 <GreenTentacle> Reject. sep 09 02:13:38 <Ataru> Reject sep 09 02:13:44 <jSarek> Reject. sep 09 02:13:44 <Graestan> Warnings, at the very least. sep 09 02:13:47 <AdmirableAckbar> somewhat reject sep 09 02:13:48 <Jedi_Goodwood> Highly reject as worded. sep 09 02:13:51 <The4dotelipsis0> No way. sep 09 02:13:51 <Havac> Guys, is anyone here> sep 09 02:13:52 <Jedimca0> Reject. sep 09 02:13:52 <Darth_Culator> Warnings are implied. sep 09 02:13:53 <The4dotelipsis0> Reject. sep 09 02:13:56 <Havac> How come no one's talking. sep 09 02:13:57 <Darth_Culator> We're not monsters. sep 09 02:14:00 <Ataru> I smell consensus sep 09 02:14:00 <Havac> Is anyone here? sep 09 02:14:03 <Gonk> Reject as worded... Maybe just "no spamming" sep 09 02:14:03 <Havac> Is anyone here? sep 09 02:14:06 * Imperialles removes channel operator status from Havac sep 09 02:14:08 <Havac> That's the stuff this will stop. sep 09 02:14:14 <Jedi_Goodwood> lol sep 09 02:14:16 * Darth_Bassan94 (i=446d8ad0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-e8155f0e6b4dbe84) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 02:14:16 <Ataru> Not as worded sep 09 02:14:18 <The4dotelipsis0> If no one's there, who does it hurt? sep 09 02:14:19 <Gonk> But that stuff isn't that disruptive. sep 09 02:14:20 * Imperialles gives channel operator status to Havac sep 09 02:14:25 <Ataru> Yeah, who gives a flip sep 09 02:14:26 <Ataru> ? sep 09 02:14:27 <Graestan> per Gonk sep 09 02:14:28 * Imperialles gives voice to Darth_Bassan94 sep 09 02:14:31 <Ataru> It's not a big deal sep 09 02:14:32 <Havac> People are there. sep 09 02:14:33 <Gonk> Spamming should be like, five or six repeats. sep 09 02:14:37 <Graestan> Dumb noobs are noobs. sep 09 02:14:37 <Jedi_Goodwood> Define spamming. sep 09 02:14:37 <Darth_Culator> It's annoying and stupid. sep 09 02:14:39 <Havac> They just don't feel like replying. sep 09 02:14:39 <The4dotelipsis0> But they're not responding. sep 09 02:14:41 <Graestan> per Gonk sep 09 02:14:45 <jSarek> Yeah, per Gonk. sep 09 02:14:46 <The4dotelipsis0> Well, then, they don't have to. sep 09 02:14:47 <Ataru> 5 or 6 sure sep 09 02:14:48 <Jedi_Goodwood> And separate definitions for spamming and link posting. sep 09 02:14:49 <The4dotelipsis0> Ignore it. sep 09 02:14:49 <Ataru> Not 3 sep 09 02:14:50 <ChackJadson> Per Gonk sep 09 02:14:53 <jSarek> (I think I may be saying that a lot this evening) sep 09 02:14:54 <Gonk> per Goodwood sep 09 02:14:55 <Jedimca0> per Gonk sep 09 02:14:59 <Imperialles> No need to define spamming. Rule rejected. sep 09 02:15:02 <Ataru> And I agree with separate definitions for spamming and link posting sep 09 02:15:10 <Ataru> Ok, that works too sep 09 02:15:18 <Ataru> ;-) sep 09 02:15:21 <Jedi_Goodwood> Heh. sep 09 02:15:22 <Imperialles> "Roleplaying is annoying and dumb. You are not a Jedi, or an Imperial commander, or a Sith, or a Mandalorian. If you act like you are, you will be kicked." Adopt this rule? sep 09 02:15:25 <Imperialles> Adopt. sep 09 02:15:29 <AdmirableAckbar> Definietely sep 09 02:15:29 <GreenTentacle> Adopt. sep 09 02:15:29 <Havac> Adopt. sep 09 02:15:29 <The4dotelipsis0> Adopt. sep 09 02:15:30 <Darth_Culator> YES sep 09 02:15:32 <SillyDan> Sure sep 09 02:15:33 <Jedi_Goodwood> Adopt, but with leeway. sep 09 02:15:35 <ChackJadson> Adopt with leeway sep 09 02:15:36 <The4dotelipsis0> No caveats on that one. sep 09 02:15:37 * Gonk rolls a D20 ... it comes up Adopt sep 09 02:15:39 <Darth_Bassan94> YES sep 09 02:15:40 <The4dotelipsis0> No leeway. sep 09 02:15:42 <Ataru> Adopt sep 09 02:15:42 <Grey-man> No leeway, Adopt sep 09 02:15:44 <Graestan> Adopt, except in short jokes. sep 09 02:15:46 <Jedimca0> Adopt with leeway sep 09 02:15:49 <Gonk> per Grae sep 09 02:15:50 <Ataru> Yeah, per Graestan sep 09 02:15:54 <Jedi_Goodwood> Leeway = short jokes. sep 09 02:15:55 <Ataru> Short jokes allowed sep 09 02:15:56 <Grey-man> Jokes are one thing sep 09 02:15:57 <Ataru> :-) sep 09 02:15:59 <GreenTentacle> Yeah, per Grae. sep 09 02:16:00 <LtNOWIS> Roleplaying here would make no sense anyways. sep 09 02:16:04 <Darth_Bassan94> definitely sep 09 02:16:04 <jSarek> Per Grae. sep 09 02:16:06 <ChackJadson> Per Grae sep 09 02:16:13 <Darth_Culator> LtNOWIS: Tell that to COmmander Lightning. sep 09 02:16:14 <Imperialles> Rule adopted by landslide. sep 09 02:16:15 * Jedi_Goodwood slaps LtNowis until he sees sense. sep 09 02:16:17 <Jedi_Goodwood> :) sep 09 02:16:21 <Imperialles> "IRC is the preferred forum for disputing a block. But once it's established that you're not getting unblocked, failure to drop the subject will result in further punitive action." Adopt this rule? sep 09 02:16:24 <Imperialles> Strong reject. sep 09 02:16:29 <Darth_Culator> My rule 4 is like Gonk's rule 2. sep 09 02:16:30 <Havac> Strong adopt. sep 09 02:16:30 <Jedi_Goodwood> Strong reject. sep 09 02:16:32 <Ataru> Reject sep 09 02:16:34 <AdmirableAckbar> Adopt sep 09 02:16:36 <ChackJadson> Adopt sep 09 02:16:36 <The4dotelipsis0> Strong Adopt. sep 09 02:16:38 <Darth_Culator> It's basically already adopted. sep 09 02:16:41 <Darth_Culator> So yes. sep 09 02:16:43 <The4dotelipsis0> Pains in the asses. sep 09 02:16:44 <jSarek> Reject in favor of Gonk #2. sep 09 02:16:50 <Gonk> per jSarek sep 09 02:16:53 <Jedimca0> Reject sep 09 02:16:53 <Ataru> I reject, because it is whining sep 09 02:16:56 <Grey-man> Yes to Gonk's #2 sep 09 02:16:57 <Ataru> No need to have redundant rules sep 09 02:16:58 <Gonk> which is to say, per myself sep 09 02:16:58 <Imperialles> Per jSarek sep 09 02:16:58 <GreenTentacle> Per jSarek. sep 09 02:17:01 <Graestan> per jSarek sep 09 02:17:02 <Enochf> Hmm sep 09 02:17:07 * JackNebulax (i=187fbdc7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-80b4feb972d64d63) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 02:17:08 <Ataru> Per jSarek sep 09 02:17:13 <jSarek> Hello Jack. sep 09 02:17:14 <Jedi_Goodwood> Per jSarek. sep 09 02:17:15 * Imperialles gives voice to JackNebulax sep 09 02:17:20 <The4dotelipsis0> Ah, Captain Jack. sep 09 02:17:26 <Jedi_Goodwood> Ah, Crimson Jack. sep 09 02:17:26 <Grey-man> Hey Jack, welcome sep 09 02:17:32 <Graestan> He's a Grand Admiral now. sep 09 02:17:32 <JackNebulax> Hello, everyone. sep 09 02:17:35 <Havac> OK, agenda? sep 09 02:17:37 <Imperialles> No consensus. sep 09 02:17:41 <Jedi_Goodwood> Thank you, Captain Obvious. :) sep 09 02:17:43 <Darth_Culator> Can we do Mofference item 1 bullet point 3? sep 09 02:17:50 <Darth_Culator> Operator Privileges. Freenode doesn't want us to use them except when necessary. Some feel they're necessary so often that we ought to just keep people opped. sep 09 02:17:54 <Ataru> I saw consensus in favor of jSarek's idea . . . maybe I was wrong sep 09 02:17:58 <Havac> Op all the time. sep 09 02:18:00 <Ataru> (I.e. reject in favor of Gonk's #2) sep 09 02:18:00 <Imperialles> No consensus, rule not adopted. sep 09 02:18:03 <Ataru> Ah sep 09 02:18:05 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Havac sep 09 02:18:07 <Gonk> I have no objection to oppage sep 09 02:18:13 <Imperialles> Ataru: Gonk's #2 was adopted. sep 09 02:18:13 <Darth_Culator> Ops always. sep 09 02:18:16 <Jedi_Goodwood> Nor do I. sep 09 02:18:19 <Havac> I have no idea what Freenode's problem is, but it's silly. sep 09 02:18:21 <jSarek> Why does Freenode want this? sep 09 02:18:24 <GreenTentacle> Op if you want. sep 09 02:18:28 <GreenTentacle> Who really cares? sep 09 02:18:29 <Darth_Culator> It's a *guideline*. sep 09 02:18:29 <Gonk> To reduce power struggles. sep 09 02:18:33 <Graestan> It's necessary in here. sep 09 02:18:33 <The4dotelipsis0> Pfft. sep 09 02:18:34 <Grey-man> I have no problem with Ops, but if someone doesn't want Ops, don't force it on them sep 09 02:18:35 <Ataru> 9_9 sep 09 02:18:36 <Darth_Culator> We've had staff give it a pass. sep 09 02:18:39 <The4dotelipsis0> It's not the bloody White House. sep 09 02:18:39 <Graestan> per Greyman sep 09 02:18:45 <Jedi_Goodwood> Here's an idea: Op if the Admin wants it, but not automatically. sep 09 02:18:47 <Ataru> I don't think it bloody matters sep 09 02:18:48 <Darth_Culator> Right. sep 09 02:18:54 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Grey sep 09 02:18:57 <Ataru> Per Grey-man sep 09 02:18:59 <Darth_Culator> Per grey/wood. sep 09 02:19:01 <Jedi_Goodwood> Hehe. sep 09 02:19:02 <Darth_Bassan94> gree with goodwood sep 09 02:19:02 <Ataru> lol sep 09 02:19:03 <Gonk> per Good/man sep 09 02:19:07 <Ataru> lol sep 09 02:19:08 <GreenTentacle> Exactly, we don't need to enforce this either way. sep 09 02:19:09 <Jedi_Goodwood> :) sep 09 02:19:11 <Imperialles> What Greyman said. sep 09 02:19:17 <Jedimca0> Per Goodwood sep 09 02:19:21 <LucidFox> Darth_Culator> Didn't we discuss the op thing with Freenode and Wikia? sep 09 02:19:24 <jSarek> Opping makes it quickly easy to see if we have Admins in the room for new users. They should generally be opped even when not exercising abilities. sep 09 02:19:28 <Darth_Culator> Good. So no enforced NON-oppage. sep 09 02:19:31 <Graestan> per jSarek sep 09 02:19:36 <sannse> Wikia has no opinion on it sep 09 02:19:37 <Graestan> it did for me sep 09 02:19:41 <Havac> I think this is consensus. sep 09 02:19:42 <jSarek> sannse, any insight into why they want this and how badly they want it? sep 09 02:19:49 <sannse> (I do, but that's known :) sep 09 02:19:56 <Grey-man> Indeed sep 09 02:19:57 <Imperialles> Consensus is to let ops do as they please. sep 09 02:20:00 <Jedi_Goodwood> Err...not known to me. sep 09 02:20:02 <Darth_Culator> Sannse likes to keep it on the DL. sep 09 02:20:03 <Imperialles> IE no rule. sep 09 02:20:11 <The4dotelipsis0> Internet Explorer? sep 09 02:20:14 <sannse> jSarek: it's on the guideline pages why, and they have seen the situation here and made no changes sep 09 02:20:14 <The4dotelipsis0> Bah! sep 09 02:20:28 <Jedi_Goodwood> Thanks sannse. sep 09 02:20:29 <Gonk> www.freenode.net IIRC sep 09 02:20:31 <Ataru> No, not IE as in Internet Explore. As in i.e. sep 09 02:20:31 <Imperialles> Wall of text incoming sep 09 02:20:34 <Imperialles> The standard sanctions for dealing with violators of IRC policies are as follows: sep 09 02:20:34 <Imperialles> 1. Warning. Directed at the violator by an operator. sep 09 02:20:34 <Imperialles> 2. Channel mute. ...More effective than instant kicking. Voice all users except the violator, and allow said violator to grow frustrated and quit on his own—and thereby be less likely to rejoin immediately after being kicked. sep 09 02:20:34 <Imperialles> 3. Kicking. ...Should only occur when policy violations, spamming, trolling, and similar transgressions are sufficiently obvious and continuous that all operators agree. sep 09 02:20:34 <Imperialles> 4. Kickbanning. ...When kicking just ain't enough. sep 09 02:20:36 * JMAS (i=4ba56895@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-51e62a67ec3b181d) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 02:20:39 <The4dotelipsis0> I'm...kidding. sep 09 02:20:41 <Imperialles> Adopt sanctions? sep 09 02:20:43 <jSarek> Hello JMAS. sep 09 02:20:44 <Graestan> Adopt sep 09 02:20:46 <Ataru> Disagree sep 09 02:20:47 * Imperialles gives voice to JMAS sep 09 02:20:50 <Darth_Culator> I'd put 3 above 2. sep 09 02:20:51 <Ataru> Kick before mute sep 09 02:20:52 <jSarek> Disagree. sep 09 02:20:54 <Ataru> Per Culator sep 09 02:20:57 <AdmirableAckbar> Yeah sep 09 02:20:58 <Graestan> 3 above 2, per Culator sep 09 02:21:00 <GreenTentacle> I don't like the mute thing. sep 09 02:21:01 <Imperialles> Per Culator. sep 09 02:21:03 <Jedi_Goodwood> Mute before kick - adopt. sep 09 02:21:04 <The4dotelipsis0> I'd put 4 about 1, personally, but that's just me. sep 09 02:21:05 <GreenTentacle> It seems like overkill. sep 09 02:21:06 <Ataru> Mostly because it's more work for us ops sep 09 02:21:08 <The4dotelipsis0> *Above. sep 09 02:21:11 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Culator sep 09 02:21:14 * Ozzel|Away is now known as Ozzel sep 09 02:21:17 <ChackJadson> Per Goodwood sep 09 02:21:17 <Darth_Culator> 4dot, it's good to have you on the team. sep 09 02:21:18 * JackNebulax has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) sep 09 02:21:19 <Havac> Shift 2 and 3. sep 09 02:21:24 <Jedimca0> Per Darth_Culator sep 09 02:21:26 <Ataru> Consensus? Yes. sep 09 02:21:28 <Gonk> Hm... well, I'm not sure it's more work when you consider kicking *over and over*, but whatever sep 09 02:21:28 <Imperialles> Sanctions adopted with Culator's amendment. sep 09 02:21:37 <jSarek> Kicking is a nothing. Anyone can quickly rejoin without consequence. Muting is unsolvable; it's a worse sanction. sep 09 02:21:43 <Graestan> Yes sep 09 02:21:45 <Ataru> jSarek says it well sep 09 02:21:49 <Jedi_Goodwood> Hmm. sep 09 02:21:56 <GreenTentacle> Then we ban. sep 09 02:21:57 <Jedi_Goodwood> jSarek has it well-reasoned. sep 09 02:22:00 <GreenTentacle> Muting is just silly. sep 09 02:22:05 <Havac> OK, next. sep 09 02:22:06 <Jedi_Goodwood> Not necessarily. sep 09 02:22:08 <Ataru> Next item sep 09 02:22:17 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: Search icons sep 09 02:22:18 <Darth_Culator> Woo-hoo! We have clear IRC rules! sep 09 02:22:20 <The4dotelipsis0> I tire of IRC tripe. sep 09 02:22:26 <Jedi_Goodwood> Heh. sep 09 02:22:27 <Ataru> It tires of you :-P sep 09 02:22:30 * Darth_Culator is pleased with the outcome. sep 09 02:22:31 <Ozzel> Okay good, only missed one. :-) sep 09 02:22:31 <Imperialles> Search icon quality guidelines. Imp has some in mind. - Sikon 06:18, 29 August 2007 (UTC) sep 09 02:22:35 <Graestan> per Culator sep 09 02:22:39 <Graestan> :) sep 09 02:22:39 <Jedi_Goodwood> DELETE THE RONET COON SEARCHBOX! sep 09 02:22:44 <Imperialles> Guideline proposals: sep 09 02:22:45 <Imperialles> 1. The administrators reserve the right to dismiss any search icon as low quality. sep 09 02:22:45 <Imperialles> 2. The items pictured on search icons can only be cropped on one side: the bottom. We may make exceptions in some cases, but not for droids and people search icons. sep 09 02:22:45 <Imperialles> 3. Make sure the item pictured is correctly placed above the search box. See File:Cutoff.png for an example of what not to do. sep 09 02:22:57 <Ataru> Yeah, sure sep 09 02:23:01 <Havac> I object to 2. sep 09 02:23:17 <Darth_Culator> 2 should be a guideline. sep 09 02:23:20 <Graestan> I have no opinion, except they'd better be good pics, and maybe we need more of them. sep 09 02:23:21 <The4dotelipsis0> What if the person is hanging from a fuselage, though? sep 09 02:23:21 <Havac> That's just . . . too micro. sep 09 02:23:24 <jSarek> Per Culator. sep 09 02:23:25 <GreenTentacle> Per Culator. sep 09 02:23:25 <Grey-man> meh, I have no opinion on this, so I'll step back for now. sep 09 02:23:26 <Jedi_Goodwood> Per Culator. sep 09 02:23:28 <Enochf> I like #2 sep 09 02:23:36 <Ataru> I have no opinion either sep 09 02:23:37 <Jedimca0> Per Culator. sep 09 02:23:38 <Ataru> I care less sep 09 02:23:39 <The4dotelipsis0> But, pretty much yeah to all of them. sep 09 02:23:43 <Gonk> Per Culator sep 09 02:23:48 <Gonk> Percolator sep 09 02:23:52 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Culator, I suppose sep 09 02:23:53 <Enochf> Yes to all, and adopting #2 provides consistency sep 09 02:23:54 <The4dotelipsis0> Also, I demand that the Cal Omas icon go through. sep 09 02:23:59 <Darth_Culator> Heh. sep 09 02:24:02 <Graestan> ... sep 09 02:24:04 <jSarek> How many do we have now, anyway? Do we really need more? sep 09 02:24:08 <Ataru> Your demands are irrelevant sep 09 02:24:09 <Havac> Yes. sep 09 02:24:11 <Enochf> And fix that extra Gonk which doesn't load sep 09 02:24:11 <Imperialles> We will remove tons after this. sep 09 02:24:12 <JMAS> I agree with those sep 09 02:24:14 <Havac> At the least, there's no reason to cut them off. sep 09 02:24:16 <Enochf> No offense Gonk sep 09 02:24:18 * Jedi_Goodwood demands that the Ronet Coon icon be deleted - with prejudice! sep 09 02:24:29 <LucidFox> jSarek> Why do we even need to have a limit? sep 09 02:24:36 <Graestan> A broken Gonk is dead to Gonk, Enochf. sep 09 02:24:41 <Imperialles> Consensus is adopt the guidelines with Culator's amendment. sep 09 02:24:42 <Darth_Culator> We have it under control, Wood. :-) sep 09 02:24:47 <Jedi_Goodwood> :) sep 09 02:24:55 <Jedi_Goodwood> Good, because I'll be offering up a few icons myself. sep 09 02:24:59 <Ozzel> I just say notify us before they are deleted. sep 09 02:25:03 <jSarek> Sikon: The more there are, the less likely any one is to come up, so people's (theoretically) hard work gets less and less seen. sep 09 02:25:11 <Ozzel> Like a Culator deletion project. sep 09 02:25:13 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: Infobox images sep 09 02:25:16 <Imperialles> Infobox images for video game characters: what is preferable, screenshots or artwork? - Sikon 06:18, 29 August 2007 (UTC) sep 09 02:25:21 <The4dotelipsis0> Artwork. sep 09 02:25:23 <Gonk> Screenshots except in unusual cases sep 09 02:25:24 <jSarek> Best image. sep 09 02:25:24 <The4dotelipsis0> Looks better. sep 09 02:25:26 <Ataru> Higher quality sep 09 02:25:27 <Imperialles> Case-by-case basis. sep 09 02:25:29 <AdmirableAckbar> Case by case sep 09 02:25:29 <The4dotelipsis0> Screenshots get outdated. sep 09 02:25:31 <jSarek> Per Imp. sep 09 02:25:31 <Ataru> Best image sep 09 02:25:33 <Jedi_Goodwood> Screenshots. sep 09 02:25:33 <Darth_Culator> Consensus on talk page. sep 09 02:25:33 <Ataru> Case by case sep 09 02:25:34 <Havac> Best image. sep 09 02:25:34 <GreenTentacle> Case by case. sep 09 02:25:35 <ChackJadson> per jsarek sep 09 02:25:36 <LucidFox> You see... sep 09 02:25:37 <SillyDan> Best image, on a case-by-case basis. sep 09 02:25:37 <Gonk> So what if they're outdated? sep 09 02:25:38 <The4dotelipsis0> When they're of the same quality, though. sep 09 02:25:39 <Graestan> per Imp sep 09 02:25:39 <Jedimca0> Per Imp sep 09 02:25:41 <Havac> NO RULES! sep 09 02:25:42 <Jedi_Goodwood> Artwork might not always be available - screenshots. sep 09 02:25:47 <Enochf> Screenshots! sep 09 02:25:51 <Darth_Culator> ANARCHY! sep 09 02:25:53 <Enochf> From canon! sep 09 02:25:56 <JMAS> Best image sep 09 02:25:56 <Gonk> Screenshot tells you right away, "This is a video game character" sep 09 02:25:56 <LucidFox> the reason I came up with this is because people continue replacing KOTOR character infobox images with crappy screenshots sep 09 02:25:57 <Ozzel> Which ever is best, as determined by a vote if need be. sep 09 02:25:57 * Rocky44 (n=chatzill@pool-71-162-241-72.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 02:26:08 <Havac> Best image. sep 09 02:26:10 <The4dotelipsis0> Gonk: Why do you want to know that? sep 09 02:26:10 <Havac> Period. sep 09 02:26:12 * Grey-man gives voice to Rocky44 sep 09 02:26:12 <Darth_Bassan94> per goodwood sep 09 02:26:24 <Imperialles> Consensus is to handle this at a case-by-case basis, i.e. no rule. sep 09 02:26:27 <jSarek> I'm all in favor of Instruction Creep when it result in a better wiki, but when the best thing to do is not have a policy, well, lets not have the policy. sep 09 02:26:31 <Jedi_Goodwood> Good. sep 09 02:26:32 <Gonk> 4dot > *shrug* it's handy :) sep 09 02:26:36 <The4dotelipsis0> ... sep 09 02:26:42 <Darth_Culator> Per Havac, and Imp, and jSarek, and me. sep 09 02:26:42 * Imperialles sets mode +m #wookieepedia sep 09 02:26:44 * Ataru shoots Instruction creep sep 09 02:26:45 <The4dotelipsis0> Not really, but anyway. sep 09 02:26:46 <Enochf> Promotional or Screenshot (whichever is better) outrank Artwork sep 09 02:26:56 <The4dotelipsis0> Why? sep 09 02:27:04 <LtNOWIS> What do we mean by "artwork"? sep 09 02:27:07 <Grey-man> I would say whatever is the *best* image sep 09 02:27:08 <Enochf> They're realer... er. Realerer. sep 09 02:27:11 <Graestan> per Enochf sep 09 02:27:18 <Jedi_Goodwood> I think we've decided on "no rule". sep 09 02:27:19 <GreenTentacle> Bah! sep 09 02:27:23 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: phpBB forums sep 09 02:27:26 <Imperialles> Wikia's experimental phpBB forums: yay or no way? - Sikon 06:18, 29 August 2007 (UTC) sep 09 02:27:27 <Havac> We have consensus. Let's move along. sep 09 02:27:27 <Graestan> WHat the casual visitor is more likely to see. sep 09 02:27:29 <GreenTentacle> Screenshots from older games look terrible. sep 09 02:27:30 <Havac> No way. sep 09 02:27:32 <Graestan> Nay. sep 09 02:27:33 <Gonk> No way sep 09 02:27:33 <Imperialles> Strong YAY sep 09 02:27:34 <Jedi_Goodwood> Adopt. sep 09 02:27:34 <LtNOWIS> Comic book Kyle is no less real than Game Kyle. sep 09 02:27:35 <ChackJadson> Reject sep 09 02:27:37 <Darth_Culator> YES sep 09 02:27:39 <Ataru> Kill FORUMS sep 09 02:27:42 <Darth_Culator> PHPBB FTW sep 09 02:27:42 <Gonk> We can't watch phpBB pages. sep 09 02:27:43 <Ataru> Smash forums sep 09 02:27:44 <Imperialles> Our current forums are a disaster. sep 09 02:27:45 <AdmirableAckbar> No sep 09 02:27:45 <Enochf> Adopt sep 09 02:27:46 <GreenTentacle> Strong meh. sep 09 02:27:49 <The4dotelipsis0> Aye. sep 09 02:27:50 <Graestan> per Gonk sep 09 02:27:50 <Darth_Culator> http://inside.wikia.com/forum/ is AWEXOME sep 09 02:27:51 <Ozzel> No forum. sep 09 02:27:52 <Jedi_Goodwood> Gonk - yes you can. sep 09 02:27:53 <Ozzel> s sep 09 02:27:57 <Ataru> WP =/= TF.N sep 09 02:28:01 <Darth_Bassan94> Adopt sep 09 02:28:01 <Grey-man> The new forums look nice, I say Yes. sep 09 02:28:04 <Havac> I hate phpbb. sep 09 02:28:05 <Jedi_Goodwood> You can watch phpBB threads. sep 09 02:28:05 <Ataru> And I hate the stupidity on forums anyway sep 09 02:28:07 <The4dotelipsis0> WP > TFN. sep 09 02:28:07 <jSarek> Insufficiently strong opinion to vote. sep 09 02:28:08 <Havac> We don't need it. sep 09 02:28:09 <Imperialles> PhpBB means more user friendliness, easier administration sep 09 02:28:11 <Jedimca0> > per Gonk sep 09 02:28:14 <Gonk> Goodwood > how? sep 09 02:28:14 <Imperialles> Easier readanilty sep 09 02:28:14 <AdmirableAckbar> Reject sep 09 02:28:15 <LucidFox> We do need it. sep 09 02:28:16 <Enochf> phpBB sounds like Roger Rabbit sep 09 02:28:19 <JMAS> Don't need it sep 09 02:28:23 <Ozzel> Need? How? sep 09 02:28:24 <LucidFox> Because our current forums are crap. sep 09 02:28:24 <sannse> just to be clear, the new forums are still buggy, and I don't know when that will be fixed sep 09 02:28:26 <Havac> We don't need it. sep 09 02:28:28 <Jedi_Goodwood> Click the "Watch this Topic" button. sep 09 02:28:29 <SillyDan> phpBB for Senate Hall, but existing format for CT? sep 09 02:28:33 <sannse> if you want them, they are "as is" sep 09 02:28:35 <Darth_Bassan94> *Shoots all challengers sep 09 02:28:38 <LucidFox> SillyDan> That works. sep 09 02:28:39 <Havac> We can't change the CT format. sep 09 02:28:39 <Graestan> Per Silly Dan! sep 09 02:28:41 <Grey-man> Thanks sannse sep 09 02:28:43 <Havac> Votes in forums won't work. sep 09 02:28:48 <LucidFox> Bah! sep 09 02:28:51 <Imperialles> Yes, they will. sep 09 02:28:54 <Havac> But anyway, please god no to phpBB. sep 09 02:28:59 <Ataru> Per Havac sep 09 02:29:02 <Ataru> No phpBB sep 09 02:29:07 * Gonk doesn't see how our current forums are a disaster sep 09 02:29:09 <Jedi_Goodwood> phpBB rules the roost. sep 09 02:29:11 <Darth_Culator> Per Imp and Sikon. sep 09 02:29:17 * Skeith has quit (Remote closed the connection) sep 09 02:29:18 <The4dotelipsis0> Yes for phpBB. sep 09 02:29:20 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Havac sep 09 02:29:26 <jSarek> What exactly is the objection to having them? sep 09 02:29:32 <Jedi_Goodwood> You're such a fish. sep 09 02:29:33 <Jedi_Goodwood> :) sep 09 02:29:35 <Imperialles> Our current forums are a) Hard to read and follow. b) Hard to archive. c) Unprofessional looking and messy. sep 09 02:29:35 <Darth_Culator> "Change is bad." sep 09 02:29:42 <Ataru> I oppose anything that gives us a more forum-ish mentality sep 09 02:29:46 <SillyDan> Our current Senate Hall is haphazard, with lots of topic duplication and difficult search abilities sep 09 02:29:48 <Ozzel> We are not a discussion forum. sep 09 02:29:49 * Darth_Bassan94 (i=446d8ad0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-e8155f0e6b4dbe84) has left #wookieepedia sep 09 02:29:49 <Jedi_Goodwood> Per Imperialles. sep 09 02:29:49 <Graestan> C) is very true sep 09 02:29:51 <JMAS> There are plenty of Star Wars forums out there. Wookieepedia doesn't need to include one also sep 09 02:29:55 <Ataru> I oppose anything that makes it easier people to post discussion forums sep 09 02:29:55 <Enochf> Per Silly sep 09 02:29:56 <Rocky44> good point sep 09 02:29:58 <Havac> Per Ataru. sep 09 02:30:01 <Imperialles> It won't be a Star Wars forum. sep 09 02:30:03 <Gonk> Better that people learn to use wiki format :) sep 09 02:30:05 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Ataru sep 09 02:30:07 <Ozzel> I agree with... Ataru? sep 09 02:30:08 <Jedimca0> > Per Ataru. sep 09 02:30:09 <Ataru> Mostly because their discussion is less than an elementary school level sep 09 02:30:10 <Imperialles> It will be SH, CT, AN, and KB. sep 09 02:30:13 <LucidFox> So, I propose: current forum for CT, phpBB for everything else sep 09 02:30:17 <Imperialles> Nothing else. Tightly moderated. sep 09 02:30:17 <Ataru> No! sep 09 02:30:20 <ChackJadson> NO sep 09 02:30:21 <AdmirableAckbar> No sep 09 02:30:21 <LucidFox> (namely, SH, ANB and KB) sep 09 02:30:22 <The4dotelipsis0> Per LucidFox. sep 09 02:30:22 <Ataru> Kill idea! sep 09 02:30:23 <sannse> Gonk: the Wikia php forums accept wikicode sep 09 02:30:28 <jSarek> So, we *moderate* the phpBB boards, like we do the Wiki boards. sep 09 02:30:29 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Ataru sep 09 02:30:30 <Imperialles> Per LucidFox. sep 09 02:30:33 <Havac> Per Ataru! sep 09 02:30:34 <Ozzel> No, not forums at all. sep 09 02:30:34 <sannse> (at least, they should) sep 09 02:30:48 <Gonk> How would voting in phpBB work? sep 09 02:30:56 <Jedimca0> Per Ataru sep 09 02:30:56 <Darth_Culator> Per the non-naysayers, and damn the double negative! sep 09 02:31:05 <Imperialles> That's why CT is staying as a regular forum. sep 09 02:31:05 <Ataru> Bah! sep 09 02:31:08 <Enochf> Non-naysaying rules! sep 09 02:31:14 <Havac> We don't need phpBB -- it'll just become a headache. sep 09 02:31:19 <Jedi_Goodwood> Voting in phpBB is easy. Select the radio icon of your choice and click "Submit". sep 09 02:31:20 <AdmirableAckbar> Yeah sep 09 02:31:22 <Havac> And sannse says they're still buggy. sep 09 02:31:23 <Ataru> Seriously sep 09 02:31:34 <Ataru> I don't want a new toy that breaks and will invite more idiocy sep 09 02:31:37 <Imperialles> Ataru: It would not lead us to a forum mentality. It would be the same as now, except easier to read and admin. sep 09 02:31:37 <Enochf> Bah. Everything is buggy. This is the Age of Vista. sep 09 02:31:38 <jSarek> Goodwood: That's for anonymous voting, which I don't think I want. sep 09 02:31:39 <Graestan> per Havac. No bugs. sep 09 02:31:41 <Ozzel> Goodwood: That won't show the voters. sep 09 02:31:44 <Darth_Culator> I like new toys! sep 09 02:31:50 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Ozzel sep 09 02:31:51 <LucidFox> Enochf> No, this is the Age of Pluralism. sep 09 02:31:51 <Rocky44> why not just discuss star wars, this is a mofference. sep 09 02:31:54 <LucidFox> Not just Vista. sep 09 02:31:56 <Jedi_Goodwood> Make it so that only registered users can vote. sep 09 02:32:01 * Imperialles removes voice from Rocky44 sep 09 02:32:03 <Ataru> Mute Rocky44 sep 09 02:32:04 <Ataru> Thanks sep 09 02:32:06 <LucidFox> Jedi_Goodwood> NO. sep 09 02:32:07 <The4dotelipsis0> Thank you. sep 09 02:32:18 <Ataru> Make it so we don't have to have phpBB sep 09 02:32:22 <jSarek> Goodwood: I want to see who's voting what, and why. sep 09 02:32:26 <Havac> Exactly. sep 09 02:32:27 <Ataru> Per jSarek sep 09 02:32:28 <AdmirableAckbar> Me too sep 09 02:32:28 <Jedi_Goodwood> Alternate idea: Offsite phpBB forum: Aye or Nay? sep 09 02:32:30 <Imperialles> I propose we hold this discussion until Wikia has developed a working phpBB forum. sep 09 02:32:32 <Havac> Nay. sep 09 02:32:33 <Ozzel> Nay. sep 09 02:32:34 <Ataru> Nay sep 09 02:32:35 <AdmirableAckbar> Nay sep 09 02:32:35 <LucidFox> Offsite? No. sep 09 02:32:36 <Jedimca0> No sep 09 02:32:38 <Grey-man> No sep 09 02:32:38 <Darth_Culator> This might be too volatile for a mofference. sep 09 02:32:41 <Gonk> Offsite forum?! even stronger nay. sep 09 02:32:42 <Ataru> Move to CT sep 09 02:32:43 <Graestan> nay sep 09 02:32:44 <Havac> Offsite is wholly unnecessary. sep 09 02:32:46 <The4dotelipsis0> Nay, no offsite trash. sep 09 02:32:47 <jSarek> Goodwood: If we're going to have the forum, we might as well have it here. sep 09 02:32:48 <Ataru> So it can be shot down there sep 09 02:32:50 <Enochf> Alternate alternate idea, move the non-phpBB forum offsite and put the phpBB onsite sep 09 02:32:54 <Ataru> No sep 09 02:32:57 <Havac> No. sep 09 02:32:58 <Jedi_Goodwood> Just tossing it out there, jSarek. sep 09 02:32:58 * DarthRambo (i=83bf2837@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-dc603c79c1b1dd90) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 02:32:58 <Grey-man> No sep 09 02:32:59 <AdmirableAckbar> No sep 09 02:33:04 <LucidFox> Nah. sep 09 02:33:04 <Gonk> How about we use both for a while? sep 09 02:33:06 <Ataru> No sep 09 02:33:07 <Havac> Let's drop it for now. sep 09 02:33:08 <LtNOWIS> No sep 09 02:33:10 <AdmirableAckbar> No sep 09 02:33:11 <jSarek> Vote to table. sep 09 02:33:12 <Ataru> Vote to table sep 09 02:33:13 <Havac> No consensus, and we're not going to get any. sep 09 02:33:15 <Enochf> Dropping it, sir sep 09 02:33:16 <Darth_Culator> A, wait for reduction in bugs. B, take to CT. sep 09 02:33:17 <Jedi_Goodwood> Table. sep 09 02:33:23 * Jedi_Goodwood drops it on Ataru's foot. sep 09 02:33:26 <LucidFox> Per Culator. sep 09 02:33:27 <Jedi_Goodwood> Whoops, sorry. sep 09 02:33:28 <Ataru> Bah! sep 09 02:33:30 * ChanServ gives voice to DarthRambo sep 09 02:33:31 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: Print Wookieepedia sep 09 02:33:32 * DarthRambo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) sep 09 02:33:33 <Enochf> We want table <clap, clap, clap-clap-clap> sep 09 02:33:34 <Imperialles> Print Wookieepedia. - Sikon 08:08, 29 August 2007 (UTC)\ sep 09 02:33:36 <Havac> Hell no. sep 09 02:33:39 <Ataru> Per Havac sep 09 02:33:40 <Ozzel> Print? No. sep 09 02:33:41 <Gonk> Why? sep 09 02:33:41 <Grey-man> No sep 09 02:33:41 <Enochf> No sep 09 02:33:42 <Havac> Hell, hell no. sep 09 02:33:42 <LucidFox> Havac> Why? sep 09 02:33:43 <Imperialles> Copyright issues? sep 09 02:33:44 <ChackJadson> No sep 09 02:33:44 <Jedi_Goodwood> No. sep 09 02:33:44 <Darth_Culator> No. Teh bad. sep 09 02:33:45 <GreenTentacle> No. sep 09 02:33:45 <jSarek> Impossible, no. sep 09 02:33:46 <Havac> Waste of effort. sep 09 02:33:47 <AdmirableAckbar> No sep 09 02:33:49 <Graestan> -m random commenters. Hard enough to follow as is. sep 09 02:33:49 <LucidFox> Imperialles> Why? sep 09 02:33:50 <LtNOWIS> Print? This isn't the 1800s. sep 09 02:33:51 * DarthRambo (i=83bf2837@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-0875d7412ed7bbdb) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 02:33:52 <Havac> Complete waste of effort. sep 09 02:33:53 <Enochf> You can't instantly rewrite print sep 09 02:33:53 <The4dotelipsis0> Yes. sep 09 02:34:01 <Ataru> A dumb idea considering that we change our articles extremely often sep 09 02:34:01 <Graestan> -v* sep 09 02:34:02 <Darth_Culator> We couldn't even realistically do a CD. sep 09 02:34:04 * ChanServ gives voice to DarthRambo sep 09 02:34:05 <Ataru> That's the idea of wikis, no? sep 09 02:34:13 <Ozzel> Why would we even need it? sep 09 02:34:16 <Enochf> If a Wiki was a book, it'd be a book. It ain't. sep 09 02:34:19 <The4dotelipsis0> Wikipedia are putting together a print version. sep 09 02:34:25 <jSarek> It'd be illegal to sell it, even to recoup the cost of printing. It's a money-loser for a group that has no money. sep 09 02:34:29 <Ataru> Heck, (tooting my own horn here), Mara Jade in June is not Mara Jade's article now sep 09 02:34:30 <Darth_Culator> WANW. sep 09 02:34:31 <Havac> Quite. sep 09 02:34:32 <Jedi_Goodwood> I think we've got consensus, Imp. sep 09 02:34:32 <Graestan> No CD, bad. sep 09 02:34:49 <LucidFox> jSarek> We can put in online. sep 09 02:34:51 <Imperialles> Consensus is to not pursue a printed Wookieepedia at this time. sep 09 02:34:52 <Havac> We're nowhere near having things good enough to even consider a stable version. sep 09 02:34:53 <The4dotelipsis0> Ataru: I think people can figure out that a CD doesn't update itself. sep 09 02:34:54 <LucidFox> So people can print it on demand. sep 09 02:34:55 <The4dotelipsis0> Geez. sep 09 02:35:08 <Ataru> Resurrecting this idea should be prohibited sep 09 02:35:09 <Havac> What the hell good is putting it print and then putting it online? sep 09 02:35:10 <jSarek> Sikon: Then it's not a print edition. sep 09 02:35:12 <Ataru> It's been shot down before sep 09 02:35:13 <Ozzel> If people want to print something, they can print it. sep 09 02:35:14 <LucidFox> And periodically update the CD. sep 09 02:35:16 <Ataru> Bah! sep 09 02:35:16 <Havac> How about we just leave it online to begin with? sep 09 02:35:20 <Ataru> Per Havac sep 09 02:35:20 <Enochf> PHPBB! sep 09 02:35:22 <Jedi_Goodwood> Can we move on please? sep 09 02:35:24 <GreenTentacle> Per Havac. sep 09 02:35:26 <Darth_Culator> Per Ataru. sep 09 02:35:26 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: Article assessment sep 09 02:35:30 <Imperialles> Article assessment. (<The4dotelipsis0> I think we should have overall asessment (that can be built into the Talkheader template), and we should have WookieeProject assessment.) - Sikon 08:08, 29 August 2007 (UTC) sep 09 02:35:36 <Ozzel> Yes, let's assess. sep 09 02:35:38 <Graestan> Yes sep 09 02:35:38 <Darth_Culator> Dot? sep 09 02:35:39 * Gonk needs more explanation of this concept sep 09 02:35:39 <LtNOWIS> We already have "Printable version" on the side of every page. sep 09 02:35:39 <jSarek> Reject. sep 09 02:35:40 <Ataru> Wikipedia has this, no? sep 09 02:35:41 <Imperialles> Establish WookieeProject Assessment. sep 09 02:35:43 <The4dotelipsis0> Yes. sep 09 02:35:44 <Enochf> Asssssssssssessssss? sep 09 02:35:45 <Jedi_Goodwood> Assess? Assess what? And for what? sep 09 02:35:45 <The4dotelipsis0> Assessment. sep 09 02:35:47 <Grey-man> Yes, more explanation sep 09 02:35:51 <The4dotelipsis0> No, it's not a WookieeProject. sep 09 02:35:51 <Havac> We already agreed on this. sep 09 02:35:52 <AdmirableAckbar> Yes sep 09 02:35:53 <Ataru> Wikipedia has this, right? sep 09 02:35:56 <Graestan> Please specify and/or link. sep 09 02:35:56 <LtNOWIS> See Wikipedia's assessment pages. sep 09 02:35:58 <The4dotelipsis0> It's something put into all WookieeProjects. sep 09 02:35:59 <Enochf> Like, what, rank 1 to 10? sep 09 02:36:01 <The4dotelipsis0> No. sep 09 02:36:07 <The4dotelipsis0> Stub, Start, B, GA, FA. sep 09 02:36:10 <Ataru> Stub-class, GA-class, FA-clas etc. sep 09 02:36:11 <AdmirableAckbar> ah sep 09 02:36:12 <Havac> Imp had a proposal just like this that went through a mofference almost a year ago. sep 09 02:36:12 <Ataru> Heh sep 09 02:36:18 <Havac> He just hasn't implemented it yet. sep 09 02:36:19 <Ataru> Meh sep 09 02:36:20 <LtNOWIS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Assessment sep 09 02:36:21 <ChackJadson> I don't like this idea sep 09 02:36:24 <Enochf> Lovely. More categories to argue over. sep 09 02:36:25 <jSarek> I hate how every talk page on Wikipedia is a blue link because someone slapped up an Assessment or Project template. sep 09 02:36:25 <Ataru> I'm extremely indifferent to it sep 09 02:36:29 <Enochf> And then vote about arguing over. sep 09 02:36:38 <Imperialles> We can't have assessment for individual WProjects. We don't have enough active WProjects. sep 09 02:36:40 <Ataru> We have plenty to do already without this sep 09 02:36:41 <LucidFox> Enochf> No voting. sep 09 02:36:43 <Grey-man> I say No to this sep 09 02:36:48 <Ataru> I say No sep 09 02:36:49 <Havac> It's more work than we need. sep 09 02:36:51 <Jedi_Goodwood> Reject. sep 09 02:36:52 <Imperialles> It would have to be general assessment from a general WProject sep 09 02:36:53 <AdmirableAckbar> No sep 09 02:36:54 <Gonk> Agreed sep 09 02:36:54 <The4dotelipsis0> It's hardly work. sep 09 02:36:55 <Enochf> N-O sep 09 02:36:56 <jSarek> And assessment itself is pointless. All articles need improvement, and usually the amount needed is pretty obvious. sep 09 02:36:57 <Jedimca0> Reject sep 09 02:37:00 <Ataru> Not because it's a bad idea in general, but it's too much stuff to do sep 09 02:37:06 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Ataru sep 09 02:37:06 <The4dotelipsis0> Too much stuff? sep 09 02:37:07 <Gonk> Per Ataru sep 09 02:37:08 <Ataru> Yes sep 09 02:37:10 <The4dotelipsis0> It's very, very easy. sep 09 02:37:11 <Jedi_Goodwood> Pointless per jSarek. Reject. sep 09 02:37:12 <Ataru> Bah! sep 09 02:37:15 <Gonk> Maybe revisit this in a few years :) sep 09 02:37:19 <Darth_Culator> If we had a jillion articles like Wikipedia, it might be more sensible. sep 09 02:37:20 <Havac> Per Gonk. sep 09 02:37:23 <Graestan> per jSarek, Gonk sep 09 02:37:25 <Havac> And per Culator. sep 09 02:37:25 <Ataru> A jillion? sep 09 02:37:26 <Ozzel> I still like the idea. No one is forcing you to asses. sep 09 02:37:31 <LucidFox> Just because YOU don't want to take this "work" doesn't mean somebody else won't. sep 09 02:37:33 <Ozzel> *asses. :-p sep 09 02:37:36 <Ataru> Bah! sep 09 02:37:36 <Darth_Culator> [Redacted by administration] sep 09 02:37:37 <SillyDan> A jillion articles and a jillion contributors, you mean sep 09 02:37:40 <The4dotelipsis0> Other people will do this. sep 09 02:37:41 <Ozzel> *sasess Bah! sep 09 02:37:46 <Ozzel> *ASSESS! sep 09 02:37:48 <Darth_Culator> Once more! sep 09 02:37:51 * Jedi_Goodwood is an Eventualist anyway. sep 09 02:37:52 <Gonk> Sussussudio sep 09 02:37:52 <LtNOWIS> Sourcing never forced me to source. sep 09 02:37:52 <Ataru> It redirects user attention from improving articles to more talk page nonsense sep 09 02:38:01 <LucidFox> Per LtNOWIS. sep 09 02:38:01 <The4dotelipsis0> ... sep 09 02:38:03 <Enochf> Per Gonk sep 09 02:38:03 <Imperialles> I think this is best suited for a CT. sep 09 02:38:06 <jSarek> Per Ataru. sep 09 02:38:07 <The4dotelipsis0> You fail to understand it, then. sep 09 02:38:08 <Graestan> I am against Talk Page Lawyering. sep 09 02:38:09 <GreenTentacle> Per Imp. sep 09 02:38:13 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Imp sep 09 02:38:16 <The4dotelipsis0> It's not talk page lawyering. sep 09 02:38:16 <Graestan> per Ataru sep 09 02:38:19 <Ataru> Per Imp, let's shoot it down elsewhere sep 09 02:38:20 <Darth_Culator> I am against all lawyers. sep 09 02:38:20 <LucidFox> There will be no lawyering. sep 09 02:38:22 <The4dotelipsis0> It's bloody article assessment. sep 09 02:38:23 <Enochf> Per se sep 09 02:38:27 <Ataru> Shoot it down elsewhere sep 09 02:38:28 <Enochf> Per anum sep 09 02:38:32 <Havac> Kill it. sep 09 02:38:33 <The4dotelipsis0> Take it to CT. sep 09 02:38:35 <Havac> Kill it now. sep 09 02:38:36 <Imperialles> Shot down, discussion may be continued in CT. sep 09 02:38:40 <Ataru> Kill it both times! sep 09 02:38:41 <Ataru> :-) sep 09 02:38:42 <Jedi_Goodwood> Good. sep 09 02:38:43 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: Did you know sep 09 02:38:44 <Jedimca0> Kill it sep 09 02:38:45 <Imperialles> Suggestion: the "did you know" feature would be much more interesting and helpful if it did not adhere to the "only new articles" rule acquired from Wikipedia. There are plenty of fascinating things from old articles that could be used to draw mainstream attention. I say change! Change now! Enochf 21:34, 29 August 2007 (UTC) sep 09 02:38:52 <Jedi_Goodwood> Adopt. sep 09 02:38:54 <jSarek> Adopt. sep 09 02:38:54 <The4dotelipsis0> Adopt. sep 09 02:38:55 <Ataru> Apathy vote sep 09 02:38:55 <Havac> Why not? sep 09 02:38:56 <Grey-man> I've been thinking this for a while...Yes sep 09 02:38:57 <GreenTentacle> Adopt. sep 09 02:38:59 <ChackJadson> Adopt sep 09 02:38:59 <Jedimca0> I agree sep 09 02:38:59 <Graestan> Adopt. sep 09 02:38:59 <Enochf> Yes (obviously) sep 09 02:38:59 <Imperialles> No need for a specific rule. Simply make exceptions from time to time for non-new articles. sep 09 02:39:00 <Darth_Culator> Needs moderation. sep 09 02:39:01 <The4dotelipsis0> HOWEVER. sep 09 02:39:04 <The4dotelipsis0> Needs moderation. sep 09 02:39:06 <Gonk> It would become a free-for-all much like IDrive is now sep 09 02:39:09 <The4dotelipsis0> Anyone can just do whatever. sep 09 02:39:11 <AdmirableAckbar> Per 4dot sep 09 02:39:15 <Ozzel> I like keeping it restricted to new articles, unless we had some way to differentiate new articles from old articles with new content. sep 09 02:39:28 <Gonk> How about DYK box split in two parts sep 09 02:39:30 <Gonk> Top part: new content sep 09 02:39:32 <The4dotelipsis0> Nope. sep 09 02:39:32 <Enochf> The comics are "new" to most new visitors here sep 09 02:39:33 <jSarek> Ozzel: Page histories, Recent Changes . . . sep 09 02:39:34 <SillyDan> Reject -- otherwise some wag will write "Did you know Darth Vader is Luke's father?" sep 09 02:39:35 <Gonk> Bottom part: "hidden gems" sep 09 02:39:35 <Ataru> No sep 09 02:39:36 <JMAS> Adopt new proposal sep 09 02:39:38 <Ataru> 1 box sep 09 02:39:38 <Imperialles> Gonk: Strong no. sep 09 02:39:41 <Havac> Who even cares about moderation? sep 09 02:39:48 <Imperialles> Our main page is cluttered enough as it is. sep 09 02:39:49 <Graestan> Less complication on the Main Page, per Imperialles sep 09 02:39:49 <Havac> So it shifts quicker. sep 09 02:39:50 <Jedi_Goodwood> LOL SD sep 09 02:39:51 <Enochf> A lot of people aren't familiar with, say, the X-wing series until they start surfing sep 09 02:39:53 <Ozzel> No, I meant a way to shaw the diff on the Main Page. sep 09 02:39:54 <Havac> Thank god. sep 09 02:40:02 * fiolli (i=d04b63d9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-1a82136c0d33d530) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 02:40:05 <LtNOWIS> Damnit. sep 09 02:40:09 * Gonk gives voice to fiolli sep 09 02:40:09 <Havac> It's slow-moving enough already. sep 09 02:40:18 <Enochf> Hey, our main page impressed The Times ^_^ sep 09 02:40:20 <LtNOWIS> I dunno, I really prefer the Did you know to only document new things. sep 09 02:40:21 * Jakerl has quit (Remote closed the connection) sep 09 02:40:28 <LucidFox> Enochf> How? sep 09 02:40:42 <Havac> If people can just start putting whatever they like . . . it's not as if people are going to completely take advantage of it. sep 09 02:40:43 <GreenTentacle> New things does not equal new articles. sep 09 02:40:52 <LtNOWIS> I certainly wouldn't want to have to check a huge archive whenever I want to update it. sep 09 02:40:53 <Jedi_Goodwood> Per Havac. sep 09 02:40:57 * Imperialles gives voice to Rocky44 sep 09 02:40:57 <Enochf> LucidFox: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Quote_of_the_Day/21_September_2007 ^_^ sep 09 02:41:05 <fiolli> what's the topic? sep 09 02:41:05 <jSarek> Changing vote to No Vote. Arguments against have convinced me enough to retract my aproval, but not to reject outright. sep 09 02:41:09 <Gonk> Havac, I'm not worried about them taking advantage so much as adding stupid shit. sep 09 02:41:12 <Enochf> Aw sep 09 02:41:17 <Enochf> It can wait, I suppose sep 09 02:41:18 <Grey-man> Stay on topic sep 09 02:41:21 <Grey-man> :P sep 09 02:41:22 <Graestan> Less random comments, if possible. Hard enough to follow as is. sep 09 02:41:23 <Havac> It's hard to add stupid shit, though. sep 09 02:41:27 <Enochf> We'll have a lot of new content when the TV series starts sep 09 02:41:32 <Ataru> I don't care, tbh sep 09 02:41:33 <LtNOWIS> Furthermore, if it's not anything new, it's really not special at all. sep 09 02:41:38 <GreenTentacle> It should be new content, but not new articles. sep 09 02:41:39 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Ataru sep 09 02:41:41 <LtNOWIS> Enochf: any news can go on news. sep 09 02:41:41 <Havac> I mean, we're adding stupid shit about [[Monopoly]] in the current system. sep 09 02:41:51 <Imperialles> Consensus seems to lean towards allowing any trivia. sep 09 02:41:58 <Jedi_Goodwood> YAY! sep 09 02:41:59 <Imperialles> With moderation. sep 09 02:42:00 <LtNOWIS> The current DYK is already a significant fraction stupid shit. sep 09 02:42:10 <Gonk> Heh, true Lt. :) sep 09 02:42:11 <Darth_Culator> Fulstar plates! sep 09 02:42:16 <Jedi_Goodwood> lol sep 09 02:42:17 <Enochf> Although a lot of the "new" articles are fanwankery. "Did you know a kitchen is a room in a house for cooking food?" sep 09 02:42:18 <Havac> Just, if anyone adds, "Did you know Luke Skywalker destroyed the Death Star?" you revert it. sep 09 02:42:19 <Gonk> Adopt with moderation sep 09 02:42:21 <LucidFox> Maybe we can remove DYK altogether? sep 09 02:42:21 <Jedi_Goodwood> Ace! sep 09 02:42:23 <Havac> That's all the guideline we need. sep 09 02:42:25 <LtNOWIS> But than, if it's not new, what is the point of it at all? sep 09 02:42:35 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Havac sep 09 02:42:39 <Graestan> Can someone specific with good judgment be given DYK responsibility? sep 09 02:42:40 <The4dotelipsis0> NOWIS: Obscurity. sep 09 02:42:42 <Ozzel> Eh, keep DYK, and keep it for new articles only. sep 09 02:42:42 <JMAS> I agree with Gonk, adopt with moderation sep 09 02:42:46 <LtNOWIS> If you want random facts, you can click the random button. sep 09 02:42:48 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: 3RR sep 09 02:42:53 <Imperialles> 1. 3RR/edit war policy - Some users continuously walk the line, engaging in "cold" edit warring and similar tactics for avoiding official rebuke. In some cases, edit summaries indicate the lack of civility and respect involved. Adherence to the letter of the law leads to some users feeling outnumbered and alienated. Perhaps a more case-by-case approach would be helpful. - Graestan (This party's over) 06:01, 30 August 20 sep 09 02:42:53 <Imperialles> 07 (UTC) sep 09 02:43:02 <Grey-man> Indeed sep 09 02:43:03 <Imperialles> The case-by-case approach sounds good. sep 09 02:43:07 <Havac> It's already established to be a guideline. sep 09 02:43:11 <The4dotelipsis0> I'd like it to be a 2RR, TBH. sep 09 02:43:12 <Jedi_Goodwood> Adopt. sep 09 02:43:13 <LucidFox> There is no "law". sep 09 02:43:14 <Graestan> I saw that case-by-case has been proposed... sep 09 02:43:19 <Graestan> But not exactly enforced. sep 09 02:43:22 <Imperialles> It's a guideline?! sep 09 02:43:22 <Enochf> I may not know how to define cold warring, but I know it when I see it ^_^ sep 09 02:43:27 <Grey-man> Yes, this needs to be discussed and clarified since there are an alarming number of users who abuse the current policy and revert edits just enough so they don't get blocked; or they revert the edit in question while making general blanket edits hoping it will not be recognized. Graestan raises some interesting points. sep 09 02:43:33 <The4dotelipsis0> After the first one, it's just a disruption. sep 09 02:43:36 <Graestan> Rulewanking doesn't help in this more essential issue. sep 09 02:43:36 <Grey-man> (from the Moff page ;) ) sep 09 02:43:37 <Havac> Honestly, you can see what's clearly an edit war, but someone stops at 3 and they get off free. sep 09 02:43:39 <Havac> That's not right. sep 09 02:43:40 <LucidFox> Grey-man> This is "gaming the system". sep 09 02:43:48 <LucidFox> And it's covered on WP:POINT. sep 09 02:43:48 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Havac sep 09 02:43:52 <The4dotelipsis0> McEwok and Jack got into a multi article Cold Edit War. sep 09 02:43:59 <The4dotelipsis0> I wish I could've banned both of them on the spot. sep 09 02:44:03 <Jedi_Goodwood> Hypermeticulous ruleswankery! sep 09 02:44:11 <Ataru> Yeah, WP:POINT covers this, but no need to get extreme with more rules sep 09 02:44:16 <fiolli> i think 3rr is enough - any more and there should be a talk sep 09 02:44:16 <Jedimca0> Per Havac sep 09 02:44:18 <Darth_Culator> We like rules. sep 09 02:44:21 <LtNOWIS> We shouldn't have to say that they shouldn't violate the spirit of the law. sep 09 02:44:21 <Grey-man> LucidFox > Yes, I'm well aware of that sep 09 02:44:22 <Graestan> Jack in particular has been bad. It's discouraging to new users, and less established ones. sep 09 02:44:30 <Havac> Jack in particular, yes. sep 09 02:44:31 <Graestan> He cannot be allowed to "guard" articles. sep 09 02:44:32 <Ataru> Heh sep 09 02:44:35 <jSarek> The thing is, a small number of reverts are sensible when reasoning is in the edit history. sep 09 02:44:38 <Ataru> I "guard" articles sep 09 02:44:39 <The4dotelipsis0> Neither can McEwok. sep 09 02:44:40 <Ataru> Somewhat sep 09 02:44:44 <Jedi_Goodwood> Per Graestan. sep 09 02:44:46 <The4dotelipsis0> I don't care who's right. sep 09 02:44:48 <Havac> He's supposed to be banned permanently the next time he edit wars. sep 09 02:44:51 <Graestan> You're not mean about it, Ataru. sep 09 02:44:54 <The4dotelipsis0> Wait, wait, I just thought up something. sep 09 02:44:54 <Imperialles> Topic, guys. sep 09 02:45:02 <Havac> Instead, he keeps edit-warring but stopping at three, and so no one does anything. sep 09 02:45:02 <Ataru> Topic is policy sep 09 02:45:03 <fiolli> is there something that can be put in the "rules" about "guarding" ? sep 09 02:45:04 <The4dotelipsis0> If an edit war between two users is carried over to another article... sep 09 02:45:05 <Ataru> Not rule violator sep 09 02:45:08 <Ataru> *s sep 09 02:45:17 <Ataru> No, bad idea 4dot sep 09 02:45:26 <Graestan> Case-by-case, and someone really needs to step up to the plate on this one, for once. sep 09 02:45:28 <The4dotelipsis0> Why don't we make it 3RR, but not exclusive to the original article, and dependent on time frae. sep 09 02:45:28 <SillyDan> If it's an edit war over the same principle, I'd aggree 4dot. It would still count. sep 09 02:45:30 <The4dotelipsis0> *frame. sep 09 02:45:30 <Havac> I'm putting him forth as a case study. sep 09 02:45:33 <Imperialles> Per Graestan. sep 09 02:45:41 <Ataru> Meh sep 09 02:45:41 <Imperialles> Havac: Well, don't. sep 09 02:45:43 <jSarek> fiolli: Generally, "guarding" isn't a bad thing; it's the whole point of watch lists. It's just some users abuse the act. sep 09 02:45:55 <Jedimca0> Per Graestan. sep 09 02:45:55 <Gonk> Nebulax doesn't guard. He cyberstalks. sep 09 02:45:59 <Graestan> Indeed. sep 09 02:46:00 <Grey-man> I tend to want to lean to the "Case by case" approach sep 09 02:46:04 <Imperialles> Gonk, watch it. sep 09 02:46:05 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Grae sep 09 02:46:06 <The4dotelipsis0> So, basically, I think we should apply the rules even if it is taken to another article. sep 09 02:46:08 <Ataru> Next to person to use names gets muted sep 09 02:46:09 <Havac> Anyway, we need more room for discretion. sep 09 02:46:15 <Havac> If it's clearly edit-warring, it should get penalties. sep 09 02:46:16 <The4dotelipsis0> Wherever the third revert is, we ban. sep 09 02:46:17 <Ataru> I think current policy works sep 09 02:46:18 <Enochf> Ah. No names. ^_^ sep 09 02:46:21 <The4dotelipsis0> As long as it's the same principle. sep 09 02:46:23 <Graestan> Ataru> Names? sep 09 02:46:26 <Ataru> User names sep 09 02:46:28 <JMAS> A wookieestalker eh? LOL sep 09 02:46:29 <Enochf> We shall speak behind the back of He/She Who Shall Not Be Named. sep 09 02:46:30 <The4dotelipsis0> Any takers on that idea? sep 09 02:46:33 <Havac> We shouldn't have to count edits and rules-lawyer it. sep 09 02:46:40 <Gonk> *stalks articles, not people. Sheesh sep 09 02:46:42 <Ataru> 3RR is a general principle sep 09 02:46:44 <fiolli> per 4dot sep 09 02:46:48 <Gonk> per Havac sep 09 02:46:49 <Jedi_Goodwood> Voldemort? sep 09 02:46:51 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Havac sep 09 02:46:54 <AdmirableAckbar> topic sep 09 02:46:55 <Ataru> As such, it already describes 4dot's scenario sep 09 02:47:01 <Havac> 3RR is a guideline, but it's being treated as a hard rule. sep 09 02:47:02 * LO|Away smiles and nods sep 09 02:47:03 <Imperialles> Although consensus seems to lean towards case-by-case, I suggest we rather discuss this in a CT. sep 09 02:47:06 <JMAS> I knew what ya meant, but it still sounded funny Gonk :) sep 09 02:47:06 <Havac> That should stop. sep 09 02:47:09 <The4dotelipsis0> So I should have banned McEwok and Jack... sep 09 02:47:17 <Ataru> Violating the spirit of 3RR is grounds for block (within reason) sep 09 02:47:19 <jSarek> I like it as a hard rule. I like having a bright line to point to when I punish someone. sep 09 02:47:20 <Graestan> The current system is not preventing the users in question from continuing their nonsense. sep 09 02:47:21 <LO|Away> Scratch the smiling sep 09 02:47:27 <Havac> I don't. sep 09 02:47:27 <The4dotelipsis0> Yep. sep 09 02:47:32 <The4dotelipsis0> Tangible rules for banning. sep 09 02:47:36 <The4dotelipsis0> Otherwise you get inconsistence. sep 09 02:47:38 <LO|Away> The spirit of 3RR... sep 09 02:47:38 <The4dotelipsis0> *y sep 09 02:47:38 <Ataru> I prefer it as a hard line sep 09 02:47:40 <Havac> Because then people stop just short of the line, knowing exactly what they're doing. sep 09 02:47:45 <Enochf> The spirit of 3RR also struck me ^_^ sep 09 02:47:45 <The4dotelipsis0> One man's banning might be another one's warning. sep 09 02:47:50 <Graestan> per Havac sep 09 02:47:51 <Ataru> However, I've stretched the spirit of 3RR on occasion sep 09 02:47:51 <Grey-man> Exactly sep 09 02:47:55 <Ataru> To allow for case-by-case sep 09 02:47:57 <Havac> It's already established as a matter of spirit. sep 09 02:48:03 <Havac> That's in the rules right now. sep 09 02:48:04 <Ataru> No rule needed then sep 09 02:48:05 <Gonk> Doesn't it all come down to the banning admin's discretion anyway? sep 09 02:48:07 <Ataru> Yes sep 09 02:48:09 <Enochf> A matter of spirit... sep 09 02:48:10 <Graestan> Case-by-case is all I'm proposing. sep 09 02:48:14 <Enochf> You must feel the 3RR all around you... sep 09 02:48:15 <Ataru> Case-by-case works for me sep 09 02:48:17 <Havac> Case-by-case. sep 09 02:48:19 <Jedi_Goodwood> Here's an idea: More then one three-revert a day and sanctions are made. sep 09 02:48:21 <Enochf> Case by case, OK sep 09 02:48:24 <Grey-man> Yes to Case by case sep 09 02:48:24 <Imperialles> Case-by-case it is. sep 09 02:48:26 <AdmirableAckbar> Case-by-case sep 09 02:48:27 <fiolli> i prefer the hard line - but there can be a petition to allow case-by-case if needed sep 09 02:48:35 <The4dotelipsis0> Ban on sight, personally. sep 09 02:48:36 <Jedi_Goodwood> Case-by-case. sep 09 02:48:37 <Enochf> Stricter than now, please sep 09 02:48:40 <JMAS> Yeah, case by case sep 09 02:48:41 <Imperialles> Now. I am going to skip the nezt agenda item, because it's really dumb. sep 09 02:48:43 <The4dotelipsis0> Yeah, far stricter. sep 09 02:48:45 <Imperialles> next* sep 09 02:48:45 <jSarek> Eh, if someone breaks the 3RR, I want the discretion to punish on the spot. sep 09 02:48:46 <Enochf> But not totally hard & fast sep 09 02:48:49 <The4dotelipsis0> People are gaming the system. sep 09 02:48:56 <Jedimca0> Case-by-case. sep 09 02:48:57 <Ataru> Yeah, skip that sep 09 02:48:58 * Starkiller1996 (i=4b4486aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-72b6de7acd7146ed) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 02:48:59 <Imperialles> "Is there some way to make it so that your edits will not be saved until you add an edit summary? That would be nice. TheCoolestDude 15:34, 30 August 2007 (UTC)" sep 09 02:49:01 <Graestan> per 4Dot, indeed sep 09 02:49:02 <Ataru> Next topic sep 09 02:49:04 <Jedi_Goodwood> Oh boy.l sep 09 02:49:06 <Ataru> Skip that! sep 09 02:49:08 <AdmirableAckbar> Hi 1996 sep 09 02:49:09 <Enochf> I don't like this one. No. sep 09 02:49:10 <Havac> Skip. sep 09 02:49:10 <The4dotelipsis0> Dumb. sep 09 02:49:11 <Grey-man> Skip sep 09 02:49:12 <Jedi_Goodwood> Reject. sep 09 02:49:14 <AdmirableAckbar> Skip sep 09 02:49:15 <Gonk> Reject sep 09 02:49:16 <jSarek> Reject. sep 09 02:49:16 <The4dotelipsis0> Hello Jorrel. sep 09 02:49:18 <Ataru> Whoever's pretending to be SK1996, it's not funny sep 09 02:49:20 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: Single issue voters sep 09 02:49:20 <Imperialles> Forum:Single issue voters: I liked the theory, didn't like the number imposed, as it's prevented several people from voting on things. Also, I'd prefer a more concrete definition of what votes it has jurisdiction over, as well as an actual voting policy instead of a closed thread. Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 14:32, 31 August 2007 (UTC) sep 09 02:49:27 * Imperialles has kicked Starkiller1996 from #wookieepedia (Imperialles) sep 09 02:49:33 <LtNOWIS> It's already in the preferences. sep 09 02:49:35 <Imperialles> I would like to see a more specific proposal. sep 09 02:49:35 <Enochf> This rule has made QOTD much easier to police. sep 09 02:49:36 <Havac> What's the problem, Ataru? sep 09 02:49:38 <fiolli> i say no - its not needed sep 09 02:49:44 <Enochf> But I might like to see the number reduced to 25 sep 09 02:49:45 <The4dotelipsis0> What's this? sep 09 02:49:46 <The4dotelipsis0> Meh. sep 09 02:49:47 <Darth_Culator> I love it as is. sep 09 02:49:48 <The4dotelipsis0> I care little. sep 09 02:49:50 <Ataru> I think people are being denied to vote on things like TC despite being good faith contributors sep 09 02:49:51 <The4dotelipsis0> Instruction creep. sep 09 02:49:52 <The4dotelipsis0> No. sep 09 02:49:53 <Havac> I like it the way it is. sep 09 02:49:55 <Graestan> Warnings. sep 09 02:49:56 <LucidFox> Per Fourdot. sep 09 02:49:57 <Ataru> Or on CT sep 09 02:49:57 <The4dotelipsis0> There will be no change. sep 09 02:49:58 <LO|Away> Ataru seems...pissed today. sep 09 02:49:58 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Havac sep 09 02:49:59 <Ataru> etc. sep 09 02:50:01 <LucidFox> No arbitrary numbers. sep 09 02:50:02 <Havac> Ataru: then they can edit more. sep 09 02:50:03 <Grey-man> Yes to the current policy sep 09 02:50:07 <Havac> It's not a problem. sep 09 02:50:08 <Grey-man> Yes sep 09 02:50:11 <AdmirableAckbar> Yes sep 09 02:50:12 <jSarek> Per Havac. sep 09 02:50:13 <Enochf> How about the concrete definition of which forums? sep 09 02:50:14 <Ataru> I support moving it down to 25 . . . sep 09 02:50:17 <Enochf> QOTD is now covered. What else is? sep 09 02:50:18 <Jedi_Goodwood> No vote. sep 09 02:50:19 <Havac> They have no inborn right to vote. sep 09 02:50:20 <Enochf> FA? sep 09 02:50:25 <The4dotelipsis0> Actually... sep 09 02:50:25 <Gonk> Clarification of what it applies to could be good. sep 09 02:50:26 <Ataru> AFAIK, it's applicable to QOTD and CT and TC sep 09 02:50:27 <Graestan> per Enochf sep 09 02:50:31 <Ataru> What else does it apply to? sep 09 02:50:32 <LtNOWIS> Yes. sep 09 02:50:33 <Ataru> ID? sep 09 02:50:35 <Ataru> GA? sep 09 02:50:36 <GreenTentacle> Current policy is wrong. sep 09 02:50:37 <Ataru> FA? sep 09 02:50:39 <LtNOWIS> I believe so. sep 09 02:50:41 <The4dotelipsis0> We've ruled out votes by people who have gone on to be established users. sep 09 02:50:42 <Havac> Apply to everything. sep 09 02:50:50 <The4dotelipsis0> So this whole idea is pretty much up the duff. sep 09 02:50:53 <Darth_Culator> This is not, thankfully, the USA, where any idiot gets to vote as long as they can breathe. sep 09 02:50:54 <GreenTentacle> We should stop people who only vote, not have some arbitrary number before you can vote. sep 09 02:50:54 <jSarek> It applies to everything that's not a fun promotional vote like the Miss Wookieepedia pageants. sep 09 02:50:57 <Enochf> Granted, but I've got retroactive granting of votes once they reach the requirement. sep 09 02:51:01 <fiolli> i could support 25 if needed, but 50 would be prefer'd sep 09 02:51:02 <LtNOWIS> QOTD is like the bottom of the voting barrell, and we said it applied to that. sep 09 02:51:11 <Ataru> Heh, so it goes for everything then? sep 09 02:51:13 <Ataru> That works for me sep 09 02:51:20 <AdmirableAckbar> Me too sep 09 02:51:26 <LucidFox> Per GT. sep 09 02:51:27 <Ataru> Keeps it simple sep 09 02:51:29 <jSarek> I do think I support a lowering though. sep 09 02:51:31 <Havac> It doesn't matter if they go on to become a good user. sep 09 02:51:33 <The4dotelipsis0> Instruction Creep. sep 09 02:51:36 <Ataru> I support lowering to 25 sep 09 02:51:38 <Havac> I've gone on to become a good voter. sep 09 02:51:44 <Enochf> What's the yay/nay on lowering to 25? sep 09 02:51:46 <Enochf> Yay sep 09 02:51:46 <Jedi_Goodwood> Damn you and your creeps! sep 09 02:51:47 <Grey-man> No sep 09 02:51:48 <Havac> Doesn't mean I should have been allowed to vote at 8 years old. sep 09 02:51:48 <Jedi_Goodwood> lol sep 09 02:51:48 <AdmirableAckbar> Nay sep 09 02:51:48 <Ataru> It's not instruction creep- it's already policy with an amendment sep 09 02:51:49 <SillyDan> Sure sep 09 02:51:49 <Darth_Culator> Nay. sep 09 02:51:50 <Imperialles> Nay sep 09 02:51:50 <Havac> Nay. sep 09 02:51:51 <jSarek> Yay. sep 09 02:51:52 <Ataru> Yay sep 09 02:51:52 <LO|Away> Whatever. sep 09 02:51:52 <The4dotelipsis0> Yes. sep 09 02:51:54 <Graestan> Nay sep 09 02:51:59 <Enochf> Bloody hell. I think the nays have it. sep 09 02:52:00 <The4dotelipsis0> Everything is Instruction Creep. sep 09 02:52:04 <Ataru> topi sep 09 02:52:04 <LtNOWIS> 25 is pretty damn low. sep 09 02:52:06 <Ataru> *c sep 09 02:52:11 <Havac> 25 is way too low. sep 09 02:52:15 <Graestan> Can we stop using the loaded term "Instruction Creep?" sep 09 02:52:16 * Skeith (i=4ab62217@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-6fc5eb28e5658a0a) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 02:52:20 <Ozzel> Per Grae. sep 09 02:52:20 * Imperialles gives voice to Skeith sep 09 02:52:22 <Darth_Culator> Please. sep 09 02:52:23 <Enochf> It's givin' me the instruction creeps sep 09 02:52:24 <LtNOWIS> So I'll say Nay. sep 09 02:52:24 <Havac> You want to vote? You can show come commitment. sep 09 02:52:25 <Jedi_Goodwood> Agreed. sep 09 02:52:26 <jSarek> Instruction Creep Is Not A Bad Thing In And Of Itself. sep 09 02:52:30 <fiolli> nay sep 09 02:52:30 <Imperialles> Consensus seems to be "Don't lower, but apply to everything" sep 09 02:52:31 <JMAS> I say keep number as is, and have it ccover all votes sep 09 02:52:31 <Ataru> 9_9 sep 09 02:52:34 <Ataru> Okay sep 09 02:52:36 <Enochf> Attack of the Instruction Creep sep 09 02:52:37 <Jedi_Goodwood> lol sep 09 02:52:37 <Gonk> per JMAS sep 09 02:52:38 * DarthRambo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) sep 09 02:52:42 <LtNOWIS> Doesn't it apply to everything already? sep 09 02:52:49 <Grey-man> That's what I thought sep 09 02:52:51 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: Block policy sep 09 02:52:53 <Jedimca0> Don't know sep 09 02:52:54 * The4dotelipsis0 stares at a wall, muttering "Instruction Creep" sep 09 02:52:54 <Imperialles> Blocking policy issues: If a user adds fanon and gets a 1 day block, then has good behavior, then three months later breaks WP:NPA, is it a second or first offense for the NPA? Bear in mind time elapsed and the separate categories of offenses. Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 14:35, 31 August 2007 (UTC) sep 09 02:52:54 <Jedi_Goodwood> The fanoneer has quit. sep 09 02:52:54 <Havac> If it doesn't, it should. sep 09 02:52:55 <jSarek> JMAS: Some votes are meant basically as recruiting tools, though. sep 09 02:52:57 <Enochf> Except maybe the Mister/Miss Star Wars thing sep 09 02:53:00 <fiolli> even as a relatively new person her i say keep it up to 50 sep 09 02:53:03 <Imperialles> ... sep 09 02:53:07 <Jedi_Goodwood> First offense. sep 09 02:53:10 * Jakerl (i=469de07b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-8fcf720b41f154cb) has joined #Wookieepedia sep 09 02:53:13 <Graestan> NPA should be a special case. sep 09 02:53:15 * Imperialles gives voice to Jakerl sep 09 02:53:16 <AdmirableAckbar> Up to the admin sep 09 02:53:16 <Ataru> I say allow for time elapsed sep 09 02:53:17 <Jedi_Goodwood> I'm not in favor of cumulative sanctions. sep 09 02:53:17 <Ozzel> Leave it up to the admin. sep 09 02:53:18 <Enochf> Mmm... I still think it counts as a second offense. sep 09 02:53:19 <The4dotelipsis0> Second offence. sep 09 02:53:21 <Imperialles> Up to the admin. sep 09 02:53:24 <GreenTentacle> Per Ataru. sep 09 02:53:26 <Havac> Leave it at admin discretion. sep 09 02:53:29 <Gonk> Up to the admin, no policy sep 09 02:53:30 <Darth_Culator> As is. sep 09 02:53:33 <Grey-man> Discretion of the blocking admin sep 09 02:53:36 <Havac> If it's part of a general pattern of behavior, allow it to be counted. sep 09 02:53:37 <Jedi_Goodwood> Per Ataru - allow for time elapsed. sep 09 02:53:42 <Enochf> I don't know if I trust admins not to give certain individuals too much leeway. sep 09 02:53:44 <Ataru> And for separate issues . . . sep 09 02:53:48 <Jedimca0> Per Ataru sep 09 02:53:49 <Havac> If it's totally unrelated, treat it that way. sep 09 02:53:51 <SillyDan> Blocking policy: Yes, it's a second offense. But admins, as usual, can use discretion, account for time elapsed, etc. sep 09 02:53:53 <Ozzel> If it's an issues, the admins can confer. sep 09 02:53:57 <Graestan> per Greyman, we elect admins for a reason sep 09 02:54:02 <LtNOWIS> Discretion isn't going anywhere. sep 09 02:54:03 <LucidFox> I'd say "up to the admin", but Culator... sep 09 02:54:04 <Darth_Culator> Damn right. sep 09 02:54:05 <Ataru> I used fanon and WP:NPA as two different offenses . . . sep 09 02:54:11 * DarthRambo (i=83bf2837@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-2e7d3b446fde492e) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 02:54:16 * Imperialles gives voice to DarthRambo sep 09 02:54:20 <JMAS> I agree, admin discretion sep 09 02:54:20 <LO|Away> Pretty sure that's why we're talking about it. sep 09 02:54:29 <DarthRambo> about what, im new sep 09 02:54:34 <Graestan> If we didn't trust their judgement, we wouldn't have elected them. sep 09 02:54:35 <Ataru> Topic only! sep 09 02:54:36 <LO|Away> People don't want it left up to admin discretion sep 09 02:54:36 <Darth_Culator> Admin discretion means admin discretion. sep 09 02:54:41 <Ataru> Bah! sep 09 02:54:43 <Havac> Admin discretion! sep 09 02:54:46 <DarthRambo> meh sep 09 02:54:46 <Jedi_Goodwood> Proposal: Separate sanctions by issue, just like in real-world laws. sep 09 02:54:48 <Havac> Next topic! sep 09 02:54:48 <Ataru> Admin discretion only within policy sep 09 02:54:50 <Graestan> per Culator/Havac sep 09 02:54:51 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Havac sep 09 02:54:51 <LucidFox> As long as admins don't abuse their blocking rights. sep 09 02:54:56 <Darth_Culator> Next topic. sep 09 02:54:56 <LucidFox> Jedi_Goodwood> Heck no. sep 09 02:55:04 <Jedi_Goodwood> lol sep 09 02:55:06 <Ataru> Jedi_Goodwood: Not practical sep 09 02:55:08 <Graestan> Admins who abuse get RFRAed by those offended by it sep 09 02:55:09 <The4dotelipsis0> Hang on... sep 09 02:55:13 <Jedi_Goodwood> Meh. Suppose not. sep 09 02:55:14 <The4dotelipsis0> Am I still blocking the second offence? sep 09 02:55:17 <Imperialles> Let's move this to CT. sep 09 02:55:18 <The4dotelipsis0> Missed all that. sep 09 02:55:24 <Grey-man> and no allowing the community to decide a users fate sep 09 02:55:26 <Grey-man> bah sep 09 02:55:29 * ChackJadson has quit (Remote closed the connection) sep 09 02:55:30 <Darth_Culator> Per Grey-man. sep 09 02:55:31 <The4dotelipsis0> Guh. sep 09 02:55:33 <The4dotelipsis0> That was ugle. sep 09 02:55:33 <GreenTentacle> Take it to CT. sep 09 02:55:35 <Graestan> per Grey-man sep 09 02:55:35 <Gonk> DEFINITELY per Grey-man sep 09 02:55:36 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: Hett sep 09 02:55:37 <Ataru> The4dotelipsis: That means you're on 2nd offense should you be blocked again :-P sep 09 02:55:39 * ChackJadson (i=45fa5424@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-5a818a0caf389e46) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 02:55:40 <Havac> If we're going to move everything to CT, what the hell is the point of the mofference? sep 09 02:55:40 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Grey sep 09 02:55:47 <Imperialles> Havac: Shush. sep 09 02:55:49 <LO|Away> How many topics have been moved to CT on this one so far? sep 09 02:55:50 <Ozzel> Per Havac. sep 09 02:55:50 <AdmirableAckbar> Skip topic sep 09 02:55:52 <Ataru> Havac: To see if we have easy consensus sep 09 02:55:53 <Imperialles> 1. I have noticed that the disputes on the A'Sharad Hett talk page have not been resolved, so the recent events that have occured can not be added to the article. It would help if we could resolve this dispute at this mofference. Thrallgor sep 09 02:55:54 <Ataru> Skip topic sep 09 02:55:56 <Imperialles> Skip topic sep 09 02:55:57 * Grey-man gives voice to ChackJadson sep 09 02:56:01 <Darth_Culator> Skip. sep 09 02:56:05 <DarthRambo> skip sep 09 02:56:05 <SillyDan> When spoiler time is over, we merge. sep 09 02:56:06 <Graestan> Skip topic. I never noticed. sep 09 02:56:06 <Jedimca0> Skip sep 09 02:56:07 <Havac> Skip. sep 09 02:56:08 <The4dotelipsis0> What about Hett? sep 09 02:56:11 <Havac> Who cares? sep 09 02:56:14 <LucidFox> Spoiler time IS over. sep 09 02:56:14 <Grey-man> Skip, not relevant sep 09 02:56:15 <DarthRambo> hett? sep 09 02:56:15 <Graestan> I don't. sep 09 02:56:16 <jSarek> Per SillyDan. sep 09 02:56:16 <Ataru> Per Havac sep 09 02:56:17 <The4dotelipsis0> Skip sep 09 02:56:18 <Ataru> Who cares sep 09 02:56:19 <SillyDan> No need for Mofferencing about this. Next! sep 09 02:56:20 * LO|Away is now known as Lord_Oblivion sep 09 02:56:21 <GreenTentacle> Per Havac. sep 09 02:56:21 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: Timeline sep 09 02:56:23 <The4dotelipsis0> Instruction Creep. sep 09 02:56:27 <The4dotelipsis0> AH, yes. sep 09 02:56:27 <Imperialles> A Consolidated Timeline, damnit. Thefourdotelipsis 01:34, 1 September 2007 (UTC) sep 09 02:56:29 <Ineedaname> The only thing remaining to do with Hett is to redirect the old article sep 09 02:56:31 <The4dotelipsis0> OK. sep 09 02:56:34 <Imperialles> This was brought up at an earlier Mofference, and I still don't understand what you're talking about. sep 09 02:56:37 <GreenTentacle> Didn't breathes start work on this? sep 09 02:56:37 <Ataru> What the kriff is a Consolidated timeline? sep 09 02:56:38 <Enochf> Kinda overly specific for a Mofference sep 09 02:56:41 <Darth_Culator> You want it, you build it. sep 09 02:56:41 <Jedi_Goodwood> 4Dot, STOP WITH THE INSTRUCTION CREEP! sep 09 02:56:43 <Havac> Yes, consolidate our various media timelines. sep 09 02:56:47 <Ataru> Mute Goodwood sep 09 02:56:49 * Imperialles removes voice from Jedi_Goodwood sep 09 02:56:56 <The4dotelipsis0> OK. sep 09 02:57:00 <Enochf> Instruction creeps in on little cat feet sep 09 02:57:04 <Gonk> lol sep 09 02:57:04 <LtNOWIS> How detailed a timeline are we talking about? sep 09 02:57:10 <The4dotelipsis0> You know how in the infoboxes. sep 09 02:57:11 <LtNOWIS> Because I know a thousand page one... sep 09 02:57:12 <Ataru> Timeline of what? sep 09 02:57:22 <Darth_Culator> Stuff. sep 09 02:57:24 <Ozzel> Sure, but it won't be pretty. sep 09 02:57:28 <Graestan> Perhaps segments of a timeline. sep 09 02:57:28 <The4dotelipsis0> ... sep 09 02:57:32 <DarthRambo> ... sep 09 02:57:33 <Ataru> . . . sep 09 02:57:33 * fiolli has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) sep 09 02:57:35 <The4dotelipsis0> We have Succeded by... sep 09 02:57:37 <The4dotelipsis0> Whatever? sep 09 02:57:37 <LucidFox> It's NOT instruction creep. sep 09 02:57:38 * Imperialles gives voice to Jedi_Goodwood sep 09 02:57:41 <Graestan> Separate pages for separate eras? sep 09 02:57:41 <LucidFox> It's not even AN instruction, sep 09 02:57:41 <Enochf> Shouldn't we let the Timeline guy do the timeline, and we can do the 'pedia? sep 09 02:57:42 <GreenTentacle> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_media sep 09 02:57:46 <Lord_Oblivion> Would be interesting sep 09 02:57:47 <GreenTentacle> Er, isn't that it? sep 09 02:57:52 * fiolli (n=farine11@208.75.99.217) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 02:57:56 <Ataru> I'm confused on what the kriff this is sep 09 02:57:58 * Imperialles gives voice to fiolli sep 09 02:57:59 * Jakerl has quit (Remote closed the connection) sep 09 02:58:06 <jSarek> Me too, Ataru. sep 09 02:58:09 <Darth_Culator> Moving on? sep 09 02:58:10 <Imperialles> I think we can all agree that 4dot, if you want it, you make it. sep 09 02:58:16 <Graestan> Indeed. sep 09 02:58:16 <Havac> Fourdot, explain yourself, dammit. sep 09 02:58:18 <Enochf> By all means ^_^ sep 09 02:58:23 <Ataru> Wall of text incoming? sep 09 02:58:29 <Ataru> :-P sep 09 02:58:32 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: Wookiee-Cast sep 09 02:58:33 <DarthRambo> i think we should put separate pages for separate ages, and more details per page sep 09 02:58:34 <Imperialles> The New Wookiee-Cast. A variety of subtopics shall ensue. Thefourdotelipsis 07:34, 1 September 2007 (UTC) sep 09 02:58:39 <Grey-man> Good sep 09 02:58:39 <Ataru> Skip topic sep 09 02:58:44 <Ataru> Relevant to WP:WC only sep 09 02:58:45 <fiolli> skip sep 09 02:58:48 <LucidFox> Fourdot, please explain sep 09 02:58:48 <LtNOWIS> skip sep 09 02:58:49 <The4dotelipsis0> Sorry, I missed that. sep 09 02:58:50 <Enochf> Um... next issue? sep 09 02:58:50 <DarthRambo> skip sep 09 02:58:51 <Darth_Culator> Already in the sitenotice. sep 09 02:58:51 <ChackJadson> What about the Wookiee-Cast sep 09 02:58:53 <Ataru> Other than a good announcement sep 09 02:58:53 <Jedi_Goodwood> Skip sep 09 02:58:56 <ChackJadson> Skip then sep 09 02:58:57 <DarthRambo> skip sep 09 02:59:02 <AdmirableAckbar> skip sep 09 02:59:03 <Ozzel> Let the man speak. sep 09 02:59:06 <DarthRambo> skip sep 09 02:59:07 <Ataru> Bah! sep 09 02:59:08 <LtNOWIS> Never! sep 09 02:59:11 <Enochf> No speaking! SKIP! sep 09 02:59:11 <DarthRambo> skip sep 09 02:59:12 <Enochf> ^_^ sep 09 02:59:13 <Ataru> Per NOWIS sep 09 02:59:13 <Lord_Oblivion> Let him speak sep 09 02:59:15 <DarthRambo> skpip sep 09 02:59:16 <Lord_Oblivion> The skip. sep 09 02:59:18 <DarthRambo> skip sep 09 02:59:19 <The4dotelipsis0> Hang on. sep 09 02:59:19 <Ataru> . . . sep 09 02:59:20 <AdmirableAckbar> someone mute Rambo sep 09 02:59:20 <Grey-man> DarthRambo > We get it sep 09 02:59:22 <The4dotelipsis0> I'm at work. sep 09 02:59:23 <Havac> Hang on. sep 09 02:59:23 <The4dotelipsis0> Right. sep 09 02:59:25 <The4dotelipsis0> Sorry. sep 09 02:59:25 <AdmirableAckbar> that's eight skips sep 09 02:59:26 * Grey-man removes voice from DarthRambo sep 09 02:59:30 <LucidFox> heh sep 09 02:59:35 <GreenTentacle> Life's too short. Skip. :P sep 09 02:59:37 <The4dotelipsis0> I want to know if anyone wants to participate on a regular basis. sep 09 02:59:38 <Lord_Oblivion> Does Rambo here even know what we're talking about sep 09 02:59:42 <The4dotelipsis0> It's an open casting call. sep 09 02:59:48 <Graestan> Oh. sep 09 02:59:54 <Havac> I would if I had a mike. I don't. sep 09 02:59:54 <Graestan> Sure, if you'll have me. sep 09 02:59:55 <Ataru> I have *zero* interest in WC sep 09 02:59:57 <Havac> Now you're all informed. sep 09 02:59:58 <Grey-man> Ah, see what happens when we allow him to speak sep 09 02:59:59 <The4dotelipsis0> So if you have anything to submit, or want to be actively involved with production, please do. sep 09 03:00:00 <Grey-man> ;) sep 09 03:00:00 <Darth_Culator> I've considered it, but not as a regular thing. sep 09 03:00:01 <Graestan> I'll buy a mike. sep 09 03:00:02 <Havac> Moving on . . . sep 09 03:00:07 <The4dotelipsis0> I know Ataru, and honestly, I couldn't give a rats ass. sep 09 03:00:11 <Enochf> Hey, don't tease Rambo. He beat Vietnam all by himself. sep 09 03:00:13 <The4dotelipsis0> But yeah, move on. sep 09 03:00:15 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: Trivia sep 09 03:00:16 <Ataru> Move on sep 09 03:00:16 <Imperialles> I'll propose a new policy regarding trivia and trivia sections. --Imperialles 21:02, 1 September 2007 (UTC) sep 09 03:00:16 <JMAS> Looks like the A'sharad hedtt issue was alrady descided by Sikon who just redirected it to Darth Krayt sep 09 03:00:18 * Jakerl (i=469de07b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-69a39d801cf34e05) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 03:00:19 <The4dotelipsis0> I was hoping this would be at the end. sep 09 03:00:19 <Darth_Culator> Perhaps "Culator's Occasional Random Screaming Rants". sep 09 03:00:23 <Imperialles> Ahem. sep 09 03:00:24 <The4dotelipsis0> Trivia. sep 09 03:00:25 <The4dotelipsis0> Destroy. sep 09 03:00:27 <Imperialles> My proposal: e sep 09 03:00:29 <The4dotelipsis0> Bahlete. sep 09 03:00:29 <Graestan> trivia should be relevant sep 09 03:00:29 * DarthRambo (i=83bf2837@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-2e7d3b446fde492e) has left #wookieepedia sep 09 03:00:31 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Imp's subpage sep 09 03:00:31 <Imperialles> Hmm sep 09 03:00:36 <Havac> Trivia should die. sep 09 03:00:36 <Imperialles> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Imperialles/Trivia sep 09 03:00:37 <Enochf> Yes. Do expound, Imp. sep 09 03:00:38 * Grey-man gives voice to Jakerl sep 09 03:00:38 <Graestan> Link subpage? sep 09 03:00:39 <LucidFox> JMAS> Well, the spoiler period IS over. sep 09 03:00:46 <Jakerl> Bah, stupid CGI:IRC sep 09 03:00:49 <Havac> If it's important enough to be in the article, it should be in a proper subtopic. sep 09 03:00:52 <Graestan> Trivia bad. sep 09 03:00:55 <SillyDan> Yes! sep 09 03:00:56 <Enochf> This is Imperialles in a nutshell. sep 09 03:00:56 * Jakerl (i=469de07b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-69a39d801cf34e05) has left #wookieepedia sep 09 03:00:58 <Gonk> Works for me sep 09 03:00:58 <Havac> Not just all slung together under "Trivia". sep 09 03:00:59 <Grey-man> Per Imp's subpage sep 09 03:01:01 <LucidFox> Imperialles> Support. sep 09 03:01:03 <Darth_Culator> RAR! SMASH TRIVIA! sep 09 03:01:03 <LtNOWIS> Some trivia cannot be incorporated. sep 09 03:01:04 <Graestan> Per Imp sep 09 03:01:06 <Ozzel> Merge trivia into prose. sep 09 03:01:11 * DarthRambo1 (i=83bf2837@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-77399534ecd91e4e) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 03:01:15 <SillyDan> It's bad, ugly, lame style, really. sep 09 03:01:15 <Jedimca0> Per Imp sep 09 03:01:21 <Ataru> Per Imp sep 09 03:01:23 <Gonk> "This guideline does not suggest removing trivia sections, or moving them to the talk page. If information is otherwise suitable, it is better that it be poorly presented than not presented at all." sep 09 03:01:26 <JMAS> Well, it didn't look like anything wad decided yet, so I was just pointing that out sep 09 03:01:26 <ChackJadson> Remove it if you can't merge it I suppose sep 09 03:01:30 <LucidFox> Especially since "trivia" effectively means "bulleted BTS" sep 09 03:01:30 <fiolli> per imp sep 09 03:01:32 <Gonk> Per Imp's subpage sep 09 03:01:35 <Imperialles> Consensus is to adopt policy. Yay! sep 09 03:01:36 <The4dotelipsis0> If it's interesting enough, it should be in the article. sep 09 03:01:38 <Enochf> Aw. I don't support eliminating trivia sections. As long as they're sourced, I like 'em. sep 09 03:01:43 <Graestan> Per Sikon sep 09 03:01:47 <jSarek> Belated adopt. sep 09 03:01:53 <Darth_Culator> The only possible place they could exist is on OOU articles anyway. On IU pages, it gets integrated if it's important enough. sep 09 03:01:58 <Grey-man> yes sep 09 03:01:59 <The4dotelipsis0> NO! sep 09 03:02:03 * DarthRambo1 (i=83bf2837@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-77399534ecd91e4e) has left #wookieepedia sep 09 03:02:03 <The4dotelipsis0> Not even on OOU articles. sep 09 03:02:07 <Graestan> The trivia for "One Sith" is a great example. sep 09 03:02:07 <Lord_Oblivion> Don't we have BTSs with bullets? sep 09 03:02:14 <Havac> I support the policy, except I *do* support mandating the elimination of trivia sections. sep 09 03:02:16 <SillyDan> We do, but shouldn't sep 09 03:02:17 <The4dotelipsis0> BTS' s should be unbulleted. sep 09 03:02:17 <GreenTentacle> We shouldn't. sep 09 03:02:18 <Ataru> Consensus is to adopt . . . sep 09 03:02:19 <Imperialles> Not after this, no, LO. sep 09 03:02:20 <Enochf> It's hard to read the chat and the proposal simultaneously ^_^ sep 09 03:02:20 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: AWB sep 09 03:02:25 <Imperialles> AutoWikiBrowser -- is it really a good idea? Havac 03:28, 2 September 2007 (UTC) sep 09 03:02:29 <Darth_Culator> AWB. sep 09 03:02:29 <Imperialles> Skip topic sep 09 03:02:31 <Ataru> AWB = good stuff when used properly sep 09 03:02:32 <Grey-man> I like it sep 09 03:02:33 <Darth_Culator> I love it. sep 09 03:02:33 <The4dotelipsis0> I don't even know what the hell it is. sep 09 03:02:36 <The4dotelipsis0> Skip topic. sep 09 03:02:38 <LucidFox> Skip. sep 09 03:02:39 <AdmirableAckbar> Per 4dot sep 09 03:02:39 <Havac> Mostly, I've found it altering piped links. sep 09 03:02:40 <GreenTentacle> Has some uses. sep 09 03:02:40 * DarthRambo (i=83bf2837@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-d4b79cf872ee14ea) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 03:02:47 <Ozzel> It's okay, except for the link thing which we will get to later. sep 09 03:02:48 <jSarek> What is the AWB? sep 09 03:02:49 <LucidFox> I don't care. sep 09 03:02:49 <GreenTentacle> Replacing spaces with _ isn't one of them. sep 09 03:02:49 <Havac> It's being run without being watched closely enough. sep 09 03:02:52 <Enochf> Until we see a good example of "before" and "after," I say skip/wait/table sep 09 03:02:56 <LtNOWIS> Per jSarek sep 09 03:02:57 <LucidFox> If someone wants to use AWB, I don't see why not. sep 09 03:02:59 <The4dotelipsis0> Instruction Creep. sep 09 03:02:59 <Havac> We need to take out some features. sep 09 03:03:02 <Graestan> Explain AWB for us cavemen::: sep 09 03:03:07 <LucidFox> Havac> What features? sep 09 03:03:09 <fiolli> what is aup ? sep 09 03:03:10 <Gonk> Let the AWBers worry about AWB sep 09 03:03:11 <Grey-man> Culator has been doing good things with it, I say it's good to have around sep 09 03:03:13 <Darth_Culator> Anything I do with it is on purpose. sep 09 03:03:13 <fiolli> awb ? oops sep 09 03:03:19 <Ozzel> I don't see the point of underscores, though. sep 09 03:03:19 <Havac> Like dicking with piped links, adding the _ sep 09 03:03:21 <Ataru> Yeah, leave it as is sep 09 03:03:24 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: Original research sep 09 03:03:25 <Imperialles> WP:NOR, and the dangers of copying policy straight from Wikipedia. Havac 17:53, 2 September 2007 (UTC) sep 09 03:03:33 <LtNOWIS> Underscores are never ever good. sep 09 03:03:33 <Darth_Culator> KILL THE NOR RULE sep 09 03:03:39 <Imperialles> I think allowing OR even in cases such as Autem sets a dangerous precedent. sep 09 03:03:39 <GreenTentacle> The _ is pointless. sep 09 03:03:39 <The4dotelipsis0> No. Original. Research. Ever. sep 09 03:03:39 <Ataru> *Destroy* original research on sight sep 09 03:03:40 <Havac> Imp, you're moving a bit quick. sep 09 03:03:47 <Imperialles> Take it up after the meeting. sep 09 03:03:47 <Ataru> No. Original. Research. sep 09 03:03:48 <GreenTentacle> And Nebulax undoes half of it anyway. :P sep 09 03:03:49 * DarthRambo has quit (Remote closed the connection) sep 09 03:03:50 <Havac> This isn't about OR> sep 09 03:03:52 <SillyDan> No original research. sep 09 03:03:53 <Grey-man> No OR sep 09 03:03:53 <Imperialles> Per Ataru. sep 09 03:03:53 <LucidFox> No OR. sep 09 03:03:54 <Havac> Shut up until I tell you about it. sep 09 03:03:58 <jSarek> NOR makes little sense in the context of a fictional setting where all of our info already IS in print. sep 09 03:03:59 * DarthRambo (i=83bf2837@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-2f842063cfdb896c) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 03:04:00 <Ozzel> I'm all for reevaluating the NOR rule. sep 09 03:04:02 <Grey-man> even in the BtS, is pushing it sep 09 03:04:03 <Jedimca0> Per Ataru sep 09 03:04:07 <fiolli> no OR sep 09 03:04:11 <LtNOWIS> Per Ataru sep 09 03:04:12 <Darth_Culator> SILENCE sep 09 03:04:13 <Lord_Oblivion> Problem... sep 09 03:04:14 <Graestan> No OR sep 09 03:04:15 <jSarek> Might have relevance to OOU articles, though. sep 09 03:04:16 * DarthRambo has quit (Remote closed the connection) sep 09 03:04:17 <Darth_Culator> SILENCE sep 09 03:04:17 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Ozzel sep 09 03:04:25 * DarthRambo (i=83bf2837@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-02d9b258ed7186ef) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 03:04:30 * Imperialles gives voice to DarthRambo sep 09 03:04:31 <Havac> The problem is, our current set of rules is taken from Wikipedia. sep 09 03:04:38 <Ataru> And . . .? sep 09 03:04:42 <Lord_Oblivion> We really need to wait till someone makes a proposal before we say anything. sep 09 03:04:44 <Havac> It demands any analysis be taken from a book. sep 09 03:04:47 <SillyDan> So someone want to draft a replacement? sep 09 03:04:49 <Graestan> Ah. sep 09 03:04:50 <Havac> Shut the HELL up until I finish. sep 09 03:04:54 <LucidFox> Not necessarily a book. sep 09 03:04:57 <Havac> I've still got to type, dammit. sep 09 03:04:59 <Havac> :P sep 09 03:05:02 <LucidFox> Any reliable source. sep 09 03:05:06 <Ataru> Per LF sep 09 03:05:06 <Havac> Yes. sep 09 03:05:07 <DarthRambo> any? sep 09 03:05:09 <Lord_Oblivion> L<sigh> sep 09 03:05:19 <LtNOWIS> Maybe you should've thought of this before the mofference, Havac... sep 09 03:05:28 <Havac> Anyway, the point is that there aren't a hell of a lot of sources to document, say, Republic comic in-jokes. sep 09 03:05:28 <Jedi_Goodwood> I'm in favor of logical assumptions that are explained clearly in a footnote/reference. sep 09 03:05:35 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Goodwood sep 09 03:05:36 <DarthRambo> i agree sep 09 03:05:36 <Ataru> No sep 09 03:05:39 <LucidFox> Havac> But it's not OR. sep 09 03:05:40 <Ataru> No original research. sep 09 03:05:41 <Graestan> I disagree. sep 09 03:05:43 <Jedi_Goodwood> Provided that said reference cites canon material. sep 09 03:05:44 <Havac> What I'm saying is, we should allow some supportable analysis and logical assumptions. sep 09 03:05:46 <Ataru> No "logical assumptions." sep 09 03:05:47 <Darth_Culator> Mute Ataru. sep 09 03:05:48 <Imperialles> We can draft up a new policy. But the essence will be the same: No OR. Ever. sep 09 03:05:51 * Redjetta (i=47dab0bb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-3ba473d9e34df2b8) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 03:05:52 <Havac> Provided they can be sourced. sep 09 03:05:56 * Imperialles gives voice to Redjetta sep 09 03:05:58 <The4dotelipsis0> None of this Logical Assumption shit. sep 09 03:06:04 <Ozzel> Logical deductions are already allowed! sep 09 03:06:07 <Enochf> We already allow logical assumptions up until somebody on the talk page notices them ^_^ sep 09 03:06:09 <LucidFox> Havac> OR can't be sourced by definition. sep 09 03:06:10 <Darth_Culator> None of this "None of this Logical Assumption shit." shot. sep 09 03:06:12 <Darth_Culator> shit. sep 09 03:06:15 <Ataru> Yeah sep 09 03:06:16 <jSarek> Ataru: It's impossible NOT to make logical assumptions to at least some degree. sep 09 03:06:17 <Ataru> Per Culator sep 09 03:06:23 <Havac> This isn't about OR> sep 09 03:06:30 <Imperialles> Yes, it is. sep 09 03:06:32 <Havac> This is about what OR is. sep 09 03:06:37 <Enochf> jSarek your logic is impeccable and therefore inadmissible. sep 09 03:06:38 <The4dotelipsis0> Well, that's about OR. sep 09 03:06:41 <fiolli> i agree with jSarek on that point - but it doesn't have to manifest itself into a significant point in the article sep 09 03:06:47 <Havac> But it's not just, "Let's allow OR." sep 09 03:06:50 <Havac> LISTEN. sep 09 03:06:55 <Ataru> SPEAK sep 09 03:07:03 <Darth_Culator> Nutshell: NOR is too restrictive as written because it's imported from sticks-up-their-asses-pedia. sep 09 03:07:04 <The4dotelipsis0> INSTRUCTION CREEP. sep 09 03:07:08 <Enochf> LISTEN! Billy Pilgrim has become unstuck in time sep 09 03:07:16 * Rocky44 has quit (Connection reset by peer) sep 09 03:07:18 <Jedi_Goodwood> Per Culator. sep 09 03:07:24 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Culator sep 09 03:07:31 <DarthRambo> Per Culator sep 09 03:07:32 <LucidFox> Darth_Culator> It's "Wikipedia", and it's a trademark. sep 09 03:07:32 <Jedimca0> Per Culator sep 09 03:07:33 <Ataru> Heh, minor rewording okay sep 09 03:07:36 <Imperialles> Havac, if you want to change the trivia policy, feel free to draft up a proper proposal. Until then, no OR. sep 09 03:07:37 <The4dotelipsis0> Per Billy Pilgrim. sep 09 03:07:39 <Havac> I'm saying the OR rule should be related to stuff like, "Sagoro Autem is the representation of the male who feel usable to provide for his family". sep 09 03:07:45 <Enochf> Eh, grudgingly per Culator... sep 09 03:07:48 <Ataru> That sentence makes no sense sep 09 03:07:53 <The4dotelipsis0> Havac...that sep 09 03:07:56 <Ataru> 9_9 sep 09 03:07:56 <The4dotelipsis0> 's crap. sep 09 03:08:00 <Havac> I'm saying it should apply to, "Sagoro Autem may be . . . " whatever. sep 09 03:08:02 <Darth_Culator> Havac is SK1996? sep 09 03:08:06 <Ataru> lol sep 09 03:08:12 <LtNOWIS> huh? sep 09 03:08:13 <The4dotelipsis0> ARe you saying that should be removed, or kept? sep 09 03:08:15 * DarthGladius (i=47a14afd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-7fd3cb4b592076b0) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 03:08:17 <Gonk> Motion to CT this or await a lengthy, specific, drafted policy sep 09 03:08:19 <Ataru> Move to CT . . . too confusing for Mofference sep 09 03:08:21 * Imperialles gives voice to DarthGladius sep 09 03:08:23 <Enochf> Ah. Well, yeah, symbolism and analysis should be treated like OR. sep 09 03:08:24 <Ataru> And Havac makes no sense sep 09 03:08:25 <Graestan> Move to CT sep 09 03:08:26 <SillyDan> Culator, Havac, etc.: This is complicated enough that IRC shouting mightn't fix things. Perhaps draft policies are needed, then CT. sep 09 03:08:28 <Havac> Saying, "The reference to a backstabbing Devaronian may be a reference to Villiie" should not be OR> sep 09 03:08:28 <GreenTentacle> Per Gonk. sep 09 03:08:30 <Imperialles> Move to CT. sep 09 03:08:32 <jSarek> CT. sep 09 03:08:33 <Enochf> Unless specifically done by Lucas sep 09 03:08:43 <LtNOWIS> We had a generic symbolism article that was horseshit. sep 09 03:08:45 <Imperialles> Consensus is to move to CT. Until then, no OR. sep 09 03:08:46 <Havac> That's all I'm saying. sep 09 03:08:46 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference. | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: Conan sep 09 03:08:47 <Jedi_Goodwood> CT sep 09 03:08:51 <LtNOWIS> Or something like that. sep 09 03:08:54 <LucidFox> Conan is canon. sep 09 03:08:54 <fiolli> move to ct after a draft proposal - though I think I see what you are getting at, jSarek. sep 09 03:08:55 <Imperialles> The use of boxes (as evidenced in this example). Too cluttered? How does it not break the "No Quotes in Prose" thing? Jorrel Fraajic 19:13, 2 September 2007 (UTC) sep 09 03:09:02 <The4dotelipsis0> Yes. sep 09 03:09:03 <The4dotelipsis0> Destroy. sep 09 03:09:05 <Darth_Culator> Those boxes must die. sep 09 03:09:06 <Imperialles> Skip topic, take to the talk page. sep 09 03:09:06 <Havac> If people would let me kriffing type before demanding I explain myself, maybe I could have made more sense to them. sep 09 03:09:07 <Ataru> Remove that crap sep 09 03:09:07 <Enochf> Hmm sep 09 03:09:07 <The4dotelipsis0> It looks God awful. sep 09 03:09:10 <Gonk> Me no likey boxes. sep 09 03:09:11 <Enochf> Which boxes exactly? sep 09 03:09:13 <GreenTentacle> Evil boxes. sep 09 03:09:14 <DarthRambo> KILL! sep 09 03:09:17 <Ataru> Kill those silly text boxes sep 09 03:09:17 <The4dotelipsis0> If Erik's trying to take that article to FA, he's got another thing coming. sep 09 03:09:18 <ChackJadson> Boxes are bad sep 09 03:09:19 <Enochf> Where's the example? Link me. sep 09 03:09:22 <Havac> Kill the boxes. sep 09 03:09:24 <The4dotelipsis0> Conan article. sep 09 03:09:25 <Ozzel> I'm not crazy about lengthy excerpts. sep 09 03:09:25 <jSarek> Ditch the boxes. sep 09 03:09:26 <GreenTentacle> http://starwars.wikia.com/index.php?title=Conan_Antonio_Motti&oldid=1522772 sep 09 03:09:26 <AdmirableAckbar> Remove boxes sep 09 03:09:28 <fiolli> kill them sep 09 03:09:29 <LucidFox> "Use of boxes"? sep 09 03:09:30 <Jedi_Goodwood> Kill the boxes - and the ones on Palpatine too. sep 09 03:09:31 <LucidFox> What boxes? sep 09 03:09:31 <Ataru> http://starwars.wikia.com/index.php?title=Conan_Antonio_Motti&oldid=1522772 sep 09 03:09:35 <JMAS> But I'm all for removing the middle name from the article title sep 09 03:09:36 <Graestan> Kill all boxes sep 09 03:09:40 <Ataru> Kill those foolish boxes sep 09 03:09:42 <LucidFox> By the way, I like them. sep 09 03:09:43 <The4dotelipsis0> JMAS: That too. sep 09 03:09:46 <Enochf> Ew. Those are terrible. sep 09 03:09:47 <jSarek> Flavor quotes to start off headers, maybe texts of important documents, but quote interludes in text should die in any form. sep 09 03:09:47 <Darth_Culator> No. sep 09 03:09:49 <Lord_Oblivion> What the hell are we talking about now? sep 09 03:09:50 <Enochf> Kill zem sep 09 03:09:52 <Havac> JMAS: Hell no. sep 09 03:09:53 <Ozzel> Are the not a possible copyright problem? sep 09 03:09:56 <Ozzel> *they sep 09 03:09:57 <Havac> It's the full name. sep 09 03:09:58 <Darth_Culator> FULL NAMES. But that's not the topic. sep 09 03:09:59 <Graestan> They are. sep 09 03:10:01 <Ataru> Some quotes in text- fine. But not all that stuff sep 09 03:10:04 <Havac> There's no reason not to put it in the title. sep 09 03:10:12 <Ataru> I'll even allow a prose quote for a good reason sep 09 03:10:13 <The4dotelipsis0> Kevin Jackass Anderson, then. sep 09 03:10:16 <Ataru> Not all that stuff sep 09 03:10:20 <jSarek> Ozzel: Not in short bits that illustrate the topic. They're fair use, just obnoxious. sep 09 03:10:22 <Ataru> Mute 4dot and Darth_Culator sep 09 03:10:23 <DarthRambo> c'mon, be nice sep 09 03:10:29 <Imperialles> Can't this be discussed on the article's talk page? sep 09 03:10:38 <SillyDan> More a stylistic question for Inqs and GA voters, isn't it? sep 09 03:10:44 <Ataru> Perhaps sep 09 03:10:44 <Imperialles> Per Dan. sep 09 03:10:45 <Ozzel> It's not one article. It's about using them anywhere. sep 09 03:10:47 <DarthRambo> i agree sep 09 03:10:47 <Ataru> It could be MoS sep 09 03:10:47 <Imperialles> Let's skip this. sep 09 03:10:48 <The4dotelipsis0> Not really. sep 09 03:10:51 <Havac> No random quotes in text. sep 09 03:10:53 <The4dotelipsis0> We can just nip them in the bud here. sep 09 03:10:55 <Ataru> I disagree with skip sep 09 03:10:57 <Darth_Culator> I thought we already had a policy about this. sep 09 03:11:00 <The4dotelipsis0> Wipe thme out. sep 09 03:11:00 <Graestan> Skip, leave to Inq and Inq-wannabes like me sep 09 03:11:03 <The4dotelipsis0> Damn. sep 09 03:11:04 <Ataru> Quotes in text = maybe; text boxes = 0 sep 09 03:11:04 <Jedi_Goodwood> Kill the boxes. sep 09 03:11:09 <Lord_Oblivion> No random quotes in text. sep 09 03:11:10 <Darth_Culator> Just make sure to interpret it to kill boxes too. sep 09 03:11:15 <Jedi_Goodwood> Actually, per Graestan. sep 09 03:11:19 <ChackJadson> Per Ataru sep 09 03:11:19 <Havac> Consensus is to kill the boxes. sep 09 03:11:21 <Ataru> Random quotes in text are sometimes useful . . . but rarely sep 09 03:11:26 <JMAS> Sorry, misuderstood what the topic of Motti's article was. sep 09 03:11:30 <Ataru> Because they're not random! sep 09 03:11:32 <Ataru> :-P sep 09 03:11:35 <Gonk> I don't care about quotes within the text. I just don't want the boxes. sep 09 03:11:37 <Enochf> Boxes like that may work in an RPG supplement, not here. sep 09 03:11:38 <LtNOWIS> We have too many quotes in general. sep 09 03:11:39 <The4dotelipsis0> They're unacceptable. sep 09 03:11:41 <JMAS> I personally am not fond of the quote boxes sep 09 03:11:49 <Gonk> And as I understand it, Jorrel's proposal was just about the boxes, not their content. sep 09 03:11:50 <Ataru> Consensus sez kill boxes sep 09 03:11:51 <DarthRambo> die boxes! sep 09 03:11:53 <GreenTentacle> Nobody likes them. sep 09 03:11:55 <Darth_Culator> Moving on. sep 09 03:11:57 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference. | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: Weasel words in MOS sep 09 03:11:57 <GreenTentacle> Let's move on. sep 09 03:11:58 <jSarek> People differ on quotes, but everyone seems to want the boxes gone. sep 09 03:12:00 <Imperialles> 1. Removing weasel words from our American English policy. Gonk (Gonk!) 19:58, 2 September 2007 (UTC) sep 09 03:12:06 <GreenTentacle> Bah! sep 09 03:12:06 <AdmirableAckbar> Yes sep 09 03:12:06 <Imperialles> For removing weasel words. No more Britishisms. sep 09 03:12:07 <LtNOWIS> Support sep 09 03:12:07 <LucidFox> Eh? sep 09 03:12:08 <jSarek> Gonk: Examples? sep 09 03:12:09 <Enochf> Define yourself Gonk sep 09 03:12:09 <Graestan> Support sep 09 03:12:09 <Darth_Culator> Gonk? sep 09 03:12:11 <LucidFox> Gonk, explain sep 09 03:12:12 <Lord_Oblivion> I like the boxes when we post an IU document sep 09 03:12:13 <Ataru> Gonk? sep 09 03:12:14 <Ozzel> I don't like weasels or their words. sep 09 03:12:16 <LtNOWIS> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:MOS#Usage_and_spelling sep 09 03:12:17 <GreenTentacle> This is just an excuse to force incorrect grammar on us. sep 09 03:12:22 <Enochf> Weasels ripped my flesh. RIZZZZZ sep 09 03:12:24 <Gonk> ahem sep 09 03:12:29 <DarthRambo> ahhhhhh! sep 09 03:12:31 <LtNOWIS> Basically, we already enforce American English. sep 09 03:12:31 <Gonk> Some interpret the policy's current phrasing to mean "use British English if you really want to, and we shouldn't revise it later to be American." That's sloppy. We need to be consistent, and just as the Harry Potter Wiki uses British English for a good reason, ours needs to use (and explicitly enforce) American English. sep 09 03:12:33 * Imperialles removes voice from DarthRambo sep 09 03:12:40 * ChanServ gives voice to Enochf sep 09 03:12:45 <Imperialles> Per Gonk. sep 09 03:12:47 <Graestan> per Gonk. sep 09 03:12:48 <Jedimca0> Remove weasel words sep 09 03:12:49 <Ataru> I thought we had that already sep 09 03:12:50 <Darth_Culator> GT hates American punctuation, I take it. sep 09 03:12:51 <Havac> Per Gonk. sep 09 03:12:52 <Enochf> I do when possible. sep 09 03:12:52 <AdmirableAckbar> Per GOnk sep 09 03:12:53 <Gonk> We did, Ataru sep 09 03:12:54 <jSarek> Per Gonk. sep 09 03:12:55 <Ozzel> Yes, speak American. ;-) sep 09 03:12:55 <Enochf> So, yes sep 09 03:12:58 <Gonk> But the phrasing can be tightened. sep 09 03:13:00 <The4dotelipsis0> Guh. sep 09 03:13:00 <GreenTentacle> If a period goes inside or outside the quotes, who gives a shit? sep 09 03:13:02 <fiolli> per Gonk sep 09 03:13:03 <LtNOWIS> The policy is phrased to say you can do it any way you want, but that's not the reality. sep 09 03:13:03 <The4dotelipsis0> Grudgingly Support. sep 09 03:13:06 <Gonk> I do GT :) sep 09 03:13:09 <JMAS> Per Gonk sep 09 03:13:13 <jSarek> GT: I do. sep 09 03:13:16 <GreenTentacle> We don't need to enforce pointless rules on everything. sep 09 03:13:18 <Ataru> Tighten policy to enforce American English, only for consistency's sake sep 09 03:13:19 <Enochf> OK, so make sure the policy doesn't allow wiggle room, then? sep 09 03:13:20 * DarthRambo has quit (Remote closed the connection) sep 09 03:13:21 <Grey-man> Per Gonk sep 09 03:13:22 <Gonk> It's not a pointless rule at all. sep 09 03:13:23 <Darth_Culator> We like rules. sep 09 03:13:24 <GreenTentacle> Particularly when you're all wrong. sep 09 03:13:26 <Havac> Consistency! sep 09 03:13:27 <Ataru> Per Gonk sep 09 03:13:30 <Gonk> It makes us look unprofessional to be inconsistent. sep 09 03:13:31 * DarthRambo (i=83bf2837@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-8cf9ec9e0311e0d8) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 03:13:32 <Ataru> Consistency! sep 09 03:13:34 <SillyDan> Sure, fix it, Gonk. sep 09 03:13:35 * Imperialles gives voice to DarthRambo sep 09 03:13:41 <Ataru> None of this inconsistent nonsense like on Wikipedia sep 09 03:13:45 <LtNOWIS> I already destroy British spelling on sight. sep 09 03:13:49 <Ozzel> Per... Ataru? sep 09 03:13:49 <Ataru> I do too sep 09 03:13:50 <Enochf> Especially the -ise words are very distracting. sep 09 03:13:52 <The4dotelipsis0> *Correct. sep 09 03:13:53 <GreenTentacle> It makes us look unprofessional to change a quote by inserting punctuation that doesn't belong there. sep 09 03:13:55 <jSarek> Per NOWIS. sep 09 03:13:56 * Jedi_Goodwood eats a weasel, then burps. sep 09 03:13:57 * The4dotelipsis0 is now known as The4dot|WC sep 09 03:14:01 <The4dot|WC> Not Wookiee-Cast. sep 09 03:14:04 <fiolli> lol sep 09 03:14:08 <jSarek> Water Closet? sep 09 03:14:12 <Grey-man> Quotes are exempt from that rule, though, no? sep 09 03:14:12 <Ataru> topic sep 09 03:14:14 <Jedi_Goodwood> lol sep 09 03:14:17 <Enochf> Quotes, yes sep 09 03:14:17 <LtNOWIS> If you have British spelling by accident, we're not going to penalize you or anything. sep 09 03:14:18 <DarthRambo> lol sep 09 03:14:19 <Gonk> Yes Grey sep 09 03:14:22 <Ozzel> Right, we don't touch quotes. sep 09 03:14:23 <Darth_Culator> We're not going to edit quotes from books just because the grammar is WRONG. sep 09 03:14:23 <Grey-man> Just checking sep 09 03:14:24 <Gonk> LtNOWIS: right sep 09 03:14:26 <SillyDan> Make sure you keep the exceptions for quotes, and for talk pages. sep 09 03:14:32 <Ataru> Yeah, we don't edit quotes or talk pages sep 09 03:14:32 <Gonk> noted SillyDan sep 09 03:14:33 <jSarek> Grey-man: Yes, and terms used in SW in a British rather than Mer'Cun fashion. sep 09 03:14:33 <LtNOWIS> Right. sep 09 03:14:34 <fiolli> i think a quote is a quote - no matter the spelling - we leave as it was written sep 09 03:14:34 <Havac> Yes, yes. sep 09 03:14:36 <Enochf> Actually, minor point, there's a quote from a Brit magazine that puts a [sic] next to a British spelling. I suggest that GOES TOO FAR. sep 09 03:14:37 <Havac> Next! sep 09 03:14:39 <Imperialles> That's already covered in the MOS. sep 09 03:14:44 <Ataru> Next! sep 09 03:14:46 <GreenTentacle> That's not what I mean. sep 09 03:14:46 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference. | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: 4dot and his images sep 09 03:14:47 <LtNOWIS> Or publisher's summaries. sep 09 03:14:52 <GreenTentacle> Bah! sep 09 03:14:53 <Graestan> Whoa sep 09 03:14:54 <LucidFox> Eh? sep 09 03:14:55 <Darth_Culator> Dot! sep 09 03:14:56 <fiolli> huh ? sep 09 03:14:57 <Imperialles> 4dot is taking a piss, so we will have to wait for him. sep 09 03:14:59 <Jedi_Goodwood> Huh? sep 09 03:15:00 <Ataru> Image stuff is already in Layout Guide sep 09 03:15:03 <Jedi_Goodwood> lol sep 09 03:15:03 <Darth_Culator> Page layout issues. sep 09 03:15:05 <DarthRambo> meh sep 09 03:15:05 <Ozzel> Put a <!--[sic]--> if you need to. sep 09 03:15:06 <Ataru> So this better be good sep 09 03:15:06 <Jedi_Goodwood> He's getting drunk? sep 09 03:15:07 <LtNOWIS> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Thefourdotelipsis sep 09 03:15:09 <Imperialles> Images next to other images and infoboxes - "It's ticking me off something terrible!" Thefourdotelipsis 09:45, 3 September 2007 (UTC) sep 09 03:15:14 <Darth_Culator> Image next to infobox=bad. sep 09 03:15:16 <Enochf> British spellings aren't sic! sep 09 03:15:19 <LucidFox> Skip topic until Fourdot returns. sep 09 03:15:22 <Darth_Culator> Dot wants to enforce it. sep 09 03:15:22 <Enochf> They're just nondstandard for 'pedia sep 09 03:15:22 <Imperialles> We already have a policy regarding this. sep 09 03:15:24 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Culator sep 09 03:15:26 <Imperialles> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:WookieeProject_Images/Infobox_image_policy sep 09 03:15:32 <Havac> Let's not enforce it too madly. sep 09 03:15:33 <Imperialles> It was adopted at a Mofference long ago. sep 09 03:15:35 <Darth_Culator> Some are resisting. sep 09 03:15:36 <Jedimca0> Per Culator sep 09 03:15:36 <Ozzel> I agree. The text should be expanded to fit the images. sep 09 03:15:43 <Enochf> Eh? sep 09 03:15:46 <Jedi_Goodwood> IN a galaxy far, far away? sep 09 03:15:50 <Havac> If there's minor overlap, I don't see an issue. sep 09 03:15:51 <Ataru> I place images on the left side of the page all the time opposite infobox, what's wrong with that? sep 09 03:15:59 <Havac> But they shouldn't be squeezing things. sep 09 03:16:01 <Graestan> Nothing. sep 09 03:16:06 <Graestan> As long as it isn't ugle. sep 09 03:16:10 <Graestan> ugly* sep 09 03:16:11 <jSarek> Per Ataru. sep 09 03:16:16 <GreenTentacle> Per Ataru. sep 09 03:16:18 <GreenTentacle> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/TIE/D_Defender sep 09 03:16:21 <Enochf> I always make sure my left & right infoboxes don't interfere... on my screen resolution, anyway sep 09 03:16:22 <Havac> Per Ataru. sep 09 03:16:23 <DarthRambo> per ataru sep 09 03:16:24 <Graestan> This is basically stylistic. Leave it to Inq and FA/GA people. sep 09 03:16:25 <Jedi_Goodwood> I don't like using the left-right-left alteration for images if it messes up the section headers. sep 09 03:16:27 <Imperialles> We don't know what Dot was going to propose. sep 09 03:16:34 <Darth_Culator> Grae: I like that. sep 09 03:16:35 <Imperialles> So skip until he returns. sep 09 03:16:36 <GreenTentacle> That wouldn't work if I couldn't put the image next to the infobox. sep 09 03:16:37 <Gonk> let's wait then sep 09 03:16:37 <Ataru> Skip until he returns, I suppose. sep 09 03:16:46 <SillyDan> next? sep 09 03:16:47 <fiolli> per ataru sep 09 03:16:48 <Ataru> Even though I think it's a pointless topic, I could be surprised sep 09 03:16:51 <Darth_Culator> Suspended. Next. sep 09 03:16:52 <Graestan> Some infoboxes are impossibly long. sep 09 03:16:52 <jSarek> Skip until he returns. sep 09 03:16:53 <Enochf> Some playing WarCraft, 4dot, and participate! sep 09 03:16:58 <Jedi_Goodwood> brb sep 09 03:16:58 <LucidFox> lol sep 09 03:17:00 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference. | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: User talk images sep 09 03:17:00 * Argh28 (n=michael_@ip70-191-80-130.sb.sd.cox.net) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 03:17:01 <Imperialles> Posting images on other users' User Talk pages: grounds for insta-perma-mega-ban? Gonk (Gonk!) 21:19, 3 September 2007 (UTC) sep 09 03:17:07 * Imperialles gives voice to Argh28 sep 09 03:17:07 <Darth_Culator> Shared user images. sep 09 03:17:08 <Ataru> Um, depends on the image sep 09 03:17:09 <Gonk> All I really mean by this is that some users are using WP as an image-sharing site. sep 09 03:17:09 <Lord_Oblivion> With 4dot, you might just be. sep 09 03:17:10 <Darth_Culator> Kill all. sep 09 03:17:11 <Enochf> What's that all about? ^_^ sep 09 03:17:13 <Lord_Oblivion> Surprised sep 09 03:17:14 <Graestan> per Gonk sep 09 03:17:15 <Ozzel> Bad. Delete them/. sep 09 03:17:18 <jSarek> Totally depends on the image. sep 09 03:17:19 <Enochf> Oh, OK. sep 09 03:17:23 <Ataru> Depends on imge sep 09 03:17:23 <AdmirableAckbar> Delete them sep 09 03:17:23 <Havac> Depends. sep 09 03:17:25 <Darth_Culator> The MyWookieeSpacers need to die. sep 09 03:17:26 <Ataru> *image sep 09 03:17:26 <GreenTentacle> Depends on the image. sep 09 03:17:27 <jSarek> Sometimes it's quite relevant to discussion. sep 09 03:17:28 <LucidFox> Why should it even be bannable? sep 09 03:17:31 <Ataru> If we have pics of nekkid chix, then ban sep 09 03:17:31 <Havac> If you're using an image for a joke, fine. sep 09 03:17:32 <Lord_Oblivion> Don't care. sep 09 03:17:33 <Gonk> I vote case-by-case basis, admin's discretion. sep 09 03:17:35 <fiolli> i agree - depends sep 09 03:17:36 <Graestan> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Tracynsenaar#No sep 09 03:17:37 <Imperialles> These are already covered under the "Only 3 user images" policy sep 09 03:17:38 <jSarek> Other times it's recognized awards like Wookiee Cookies. sep 09 03:17:39 <Havac> If it's revlevant to discussion, fine. sep 09 03:17:40 <Enochf> Yeah.... depends. But if they're just sharing pics of their RPG characters, then ZAP 'em. sep 09 03:17:41 <Graestan> This is annoying. sep 09 03:17:43 <AdmirableAckbar> those Fandos are using Wookieepedia to contract artists sep 09 03:17:44 <Jedimca0> per Gonk sep 09 03:17:46 <Ataru> We have a policy already sep 09 03:17:48 <Havac> If it's image-sharing, kill it. sep 09 03:17:50 <Ataru> 3 user images sep 09 03:17:50 <Graestan> per Gonk. sep 09 03:17:51 <Grey-man> It had to do with some Fandolorians making fanart and just posting it on eachtother's talkpages sep 09 03:17:51 <Ataru> It works sep 09 03:17:57 <Imperialles> We have a policy already. sep 09 03:17:57 <Argh28> ;) Hi Whats going on sep 09 03:17:58 <Ataru> They get 3 images sep 09 03:17:58 <Graestan> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Tracynsenaar#No sep 09 03:18:02 <Ataru> Just like everyone else sep 09 03:18:02 * Imperialles has kicked Argh28 from #wookieepedia (Imperialles) sep 09 03:18:04 * The4dot|WC is now known as The4dotelipsis1 sep 09 03:18:12 <Darth_Culator> Dot! sep 09 03:18:13 <Enochf> Strict Imp ^_^ sep 09 03:18:14 <Gonk> ok, if the policy applies, I withdraw the agenda item sep 09 03:18:16 <LucidFox> Fanart is subject to deletion anyway. sep 09 03:18:23 <Ozzel> Not for user images. sep 09 03:18:23 <Ataru> Not if it's userimages sep 09 03:18:25 <The4dotelipsis1> Hmm? sep 09 03:18:28 <LucidFox> Ah. sep 09 03:18:29 <The4dotelipsis1> What did I miss? sep 09 03:18:30 <Graestan> This is a bigger problem sep 09 03:18:34 <Enochf> Your issue. Jeez. sep 09 03:18:35 <LtNOWIS> A purple lightsaber. Only to be expected from one so illustrious as Revan. sep 09 03:18:39 <Darth_Culator> Resume dot's item? sep 09 03:18:41 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference. | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: 4dot is done, now for his images sep 09 03:18:42 <Enochf> You picked a fine time to leave us, Four Dot sep 09 03:18:46 <Imperialles> Images next to other images and infoboxes - "It's ticking me off something terrible!" Thefourdotelipsis 09:45, 3 September 2007 (UTC) sep 09 03:18:50 <Imperialles> Clarify, Dot. sep 09 03:18:50 <Graestan> It's the Main vs User/User talk percentage sep 09 03:18:51 <The4dotelipsis1> Oh, right. sep 09 03:18:53 <The4dotelipsis1> That. sep 09 03:19:08 <The4dotelipsis1> Sometimes I see an image next in the prose, next to the infobox, or another image. sep 09 03:19:10 * Argh28 (n=michael_@ip70-191-80-130.sb.sd.cox.net) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 03:19:14 <The4dotelipsis1> This causes a very thin line of prose. sep 09 03:19:16 * Imperialles gives voice to Argh28 sep 09 03:19:17 <The4dotelipsis1> And, to be honest. sep 09 03:19:19 <The4dotelipsis1> It's fucking ugly. sep 09 03:19:23 <Enochf> Yup sep 09 03:19:25 <Ataru> Depends on resolution, no? sep 09 03:19:26 <The4dotelipsis1> I say remove the offending images. sep 09 03:19:27 <Havac> Not if it's formatted right. sep 09 03:19:34 <Graestan> per Havac sep 09 03:19:36 <Gonk> It was proposed that we leave this to FA/GA discussion sep 09 03:19:37 <jSarek> Per Havac. sep 09 03:19:38 <DarthRambo> remove anyway sep 09 03:19:38 <AdmirableAckbar> Depends on size of infobox sep 09 03:19:38 <Ozzel> Expand the text or remove the image. sep 09 03:19:39 <Lord_Oblivion> Depends on your scree resolution. sep 09 03:19:47 <Ataru> Depends on screen resolution sep 09 03:19:48 <The4dotelipsis1> Yep. sep 09 03:19:48 <Enochf> I try to carefully reshuffle & edit when I encounter that, but it's sort of a case-by-case thing, innit? sep 09 03:19:53 <LtNOWIS> Doesn't this fall under, "Pages should not look like crap?" sep 09 03:19:53 <GreenTentacle> Some infoboxes are just long and it can't be helped. sep 09 03:19:55 <Graestan> Size of infobox and size of image apply sep 09 03:19:57 <The4dotelipsis1> I'm talking a layman's screen resolution. sep 09 03:19:58 <Ataru> Case by case sep 09 03:19:59 <Havac> Case-by-case. sep 09 03:19:59 <Imperialles> Per NOWIS sep 09 03:20:03 <Havac> Keep it from looking crap. sep 09 03:20:05 <Enochf> What do we do, ban people who consistently make badly formatted articles? sep 09 03:20:06 <Graestan> per Ataru, Havac sep 09 03:20:06 <GreenTentacle> Case by case. sep 09 03:20:06 <The4dotelipsis1> It is case by base. sep 09 03:20:08 <SillyDan> In general, we seem to use too many images anyway. sep 09 03:20:10 <Graestan> Case by case sep 09 03:20:13 <The4dotelipsis1> But if I remove it, I dont' want it reverted. sep 09 03:20:16 <fiolli> per ataru, havac sep 09 03:20:18 <Jedimca0> Case by Case sep 09 03:20:18 * Argh28 (n=michael_@ip70-191-80-130.sb.sd.cox.net) has left #wookieepedia sep 09 03:20:22 <Ataru> Take it up on talk page then sep 09 03:20:22 <The4dotelipsis1> So that's why I want a kind of rule or guideline. sep 09 03:20:23 <Lord_Oblivion> Enochf: Ideally, yes. :P sep 09 03:20:28 * DarthRambo (i=83bf2837@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-8cf9ec9e0311e0d8) has left #wookieepedia sep 09 03:20:29 <Havac> We don't need a rule. sep 09 03:20:30 <The4dotelipsis1> And so we don't have to vote every freaking time. sep 09 03:20:37 <Havac> The rule is it shouldn't look crappy. sep 09 03:20:38 <Ataru> Bah, don't need rule. sep 09 03:20:42 <Havac> On a reasonable resolution. sep 09 03:20:43 <Enochf> The prettification policy? sep 09 03:20:47 <Imperialles> No rule. sep 09 03:20:49 * Ataru dares mentioning the I.C word sep 09 03:20:55 <jSarek> In other words, 4dot doesn't want Jack Nebulax jumping on his every useful edit. sep 09 03:20:57 * Redjetta has quit (Remote closed the connection) sep 09 03:20:58 <Havac> If you're at 800x600 or some such crap, it's your own damn fault. sep 09 03:20:59 <Ataru> *I.C. word sep 09 03:21:00 <Gonk> No talk page discussion necessary if, on any resolution, it makes the article look crappy. sep 09 03:21:05 <Lord_Oblivion> Nebulax seems to have a very awkward resolution as I recall. sep 09 03:21:07 <The4dotelipsis1> I call elitism. sep 09 03:21:08 <Ataru> Common sense? sep 09 03:21:11 <Enochf> o/ Can't you see we're on the eve of instruction o/ sep 09 03:21:13 <Ataru> Do we allow that? sep 09 03:21:17 <Lord_Oblivion> So he brought this up all the time. sep 09 03:21:23 <LtNOWIS> 800x600 can't be helped in some cases. sep 09 03:21:26 <The4dotelipsis1> Yuhp. sep 09 03:21:34 <LtNOWIS> But now that I'm done with high school, I don't really care. sep 09 03:21:35 <The4dotelipsis1> And it's the average resuolution of the layman. sep 09 03:21:36 <Enochf> Some laptops. Grandma's computer. ^_^ sep 09 03:21:38 <Ozzel> 1024x768 should be the lowest denominator. sep 09 03:21:41 <Havac> Yes. sep 09 03:21:41 <jSarek> Yeah, but we can't be expected to always cater to the lowest common denominator. sep 09 03:21:44 <Havac> Agree with Ozzel. sep 09 03:21:48 <GreenTentacle> Neither can putting the image next to the infobox. sep 09 03:21:54 <Ataru> I say common sense issue, assuming we're allowed to use common sense sep 09 03:21:56 <fiolli> 1024*768 is probably the most common now sep 09 03:21:56 <jSarek> Otherwise, we'd be splitting all our article for those poor folks on dialup. sep 09 03:22:05 <Imperialles> This borders on instruction creep. I say case-by-case basis. sep 09 03:22:07 <Ataru> Stick with case-by-case sep 09 03:22:08 <Enochf> 1024 x 768 standard, sez I sep 09 03:22:12 <GreenTentacle> Per Imp. sep 09 03:22:16 <ChackJadson> Per Imp sep 09 03:22:17 <Gonk> Per Imp sep 09 03:22:18 <fiolli> case by case sep 09 03:22:19 <Havac> Per jSarek. sep 09 03:22:22 <Jedimca0> Per Imp sep 09 03:22:25 <The4dotelipsis1> Whatever. sep 09 03:22:26 <Havac> Case by case. sep 09 03:22:27 <Imperialles> Moving on. sep 09 03:22:29 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference. | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: Links in articles sep 09 03:22:30 <Graestan> Per Imp, said it already sep 09 03:22:30 <Grey-man> Yes, per Imp sep 09 03:22:31 <LtNOWIS> Per 4dot sep 09 03:22:33 <Ozzel> I wouldn't mind a rule. But whatever. sep 09 03:22:38 <Gonk> I have a proposal on this one sep 09 03:22:42 <Imperialles> Links in articles: one time only vs. actually helping the reader find information. -- Ozzel 21:50, 3 September 2007 (UTC) sep 09 03:22:42 <fiolli> shoot, gonk sep 09 03:22:44 <Graestan> Links in articles? sep 09 03:22:46 <Gonk> How about *roughly* once per screen (assuming 1024x768)? sep 09 03:22:46 <The4dotelipsis1> New linking for each section. sep 09 03:22:47 <Lord_Oblivion> Appears fine on 1200x800 sep 09 03:22:48 <Imperialles> One time only. sep 09 03:22:52 <ChackJadson> I say one per article sep 09 03:22:53 <LucidFox> Per Fourdot. sep 09 03:22:53 <Ataru> One time only sep 09 03:22:53 <Ozzel> Obviously, I think you know my opinion. sep 09 03:22:53 <Havac> Not one time only. sep 09 03:22:54 <Imperialles> No way, Dot sep 09 03:23:00 <The4dotelipsis1> Why? sep 09 03:23:00 <Jedi_Goodwood> One time only. sep 09 03:23:03 <The4dotelipsis1> How does it hurt? sep 09 03:23:03 <Enochf> How about instruction crêpe? sep 09 03:23:03 <GreenTentacle> One time only... sep 09 03:23:04 <Grey-man> One time per article sep 09 03:23:06 <Havac> If something gets changed, it makes relinking a [Redacted by administration]. sep 09 03:23:10 <Ataru> Use Ctrl+f if you really want to know sep 09 03:23:10 <LucidFox> Bah. sep 09 03:23:12 <The4dotelipsis1> Oh, boo hoo. sep 09 03:23:15 <AdmirableAckbar> once in intro, once in infobox, once in article sep 09 03:23:15 <The4dotelipsis1> Actual work. sep 09 03:23:16 <Havac> What does it hurt? sep 09 03:23:16 <Ataru> Or whatever sep 09 03:23:18 <GreenTentacle> But if something is called by two wildly different names let's allow a second link. sep 09 03:23:21 <Graestan> per Ackbar sep 09 03:23:22 <Jedimca0> One time per article sep 09 03:23:22 <AdmirableAckbar> *main body sep 09 03:23:23 <SillyDan> GT: yes sep 09 03:23:23 <LucidFox> All right. No policy. sep 09 03:23:24 <Imperialles> It makes the article look cluttered. sep 09 03:23:27 <Ataru> Per GT sep 09 03:23:30 <LtNOWIS> Eh... for longass articles I don't see one time helping anyone. sep 09 03:23:31 <Darth_Culator> Acky: That's what I've been doing on request. sep 09 03:23:31 <Ozzel> Not everyone uses Ctrl+F. sep 09 03:23:32 <Ataru> Yes, clutter sep 09 03:23:34 <Havac> What if a link is piped much earlier, then linked again under its actual name? sep 09 03:23:35 <Imperialles> Per GT. sep 09 03:23:38 <Jedimca0> Per AdmirableAckbar sep 09 03:23:38 <jSarek> Tent: That just confuses people that they are in fact seperate. sep 09 03:23:39 * Skeith has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) sep 09 03:23:39 <Ineedaname> As long as it's not linking it every time something's mentioned sep 09 03:23:40 <fiolli> i'm not opposed to an extra link on really long articles - i think i might help sep 09 03:23:41 <Enochf> Some articles need a text expansion to justify the pics sep 09 03:23:43 <Ozzel> I'd support linking once per section. sep 09 03:23:44 <LucidFox> I don't want to enforce it in either direction. sep 09 03:23:50 <Ataru> Enochf: Stay on topic sep 09 03:23:51 <LucidFox> Links should be reasonably sparse. sep 09 03:23:52 <Imperialles> Once per section is *far* too much. sep 09 03:23:53 <Ozzel> But only allowing once an article is downright silly. sep 09 03:23:56 <Enochf> Sowwy sep 09 03:23:59 <Ataru> Bah sep 09 03:24:02 <The4dotelipsis1> jSarek: The article should assert that they're the same. sep 09 03:24:03 <Darth_Culator> How about no more than once per paragraph? :-P sep 09 03:24:03 <LucidFox> One per screen, maybe. sep 09 03:24:05 <The4dotelipsis1> If written properly. sep 09 03:24:06 <Ataru> One per article is fine sep 09 03:24:07 <Graestan> per Ozzel sep 09 03:24:10 <LucidFox> But only as a guideline. sep 09 03:24:11 <Ozzel> Not require 1-per-sect, but allowing it if need be. sep 09 03:24:13 <Grey-man> Once per article sep 09 03:24:13 <Imperialles> "Screen" is subjective, LF. sep 09 03:24:18 <LucidFox> Not something to vigilantly enforce. sep 09 03:24:20 <Enochf> Uch. One time only. sep 09 03:24:25 <fiolli> If there is a major point being made involving an item that is not listed for a substancial time, relinking could be a benefit - I think it should be evaluated on a case-by-case; sep 09 03:24:27 <Enochf> Except for userboxes. sep 09 03:24:28 <LucidFox> Imperialles> Per our agreed-on LCD. sep 09 03:24:28 <The4dotelipsis1> It wasn't on the last topic... sep 09 03:24:29 <Havac> Once per section is too much. sep 09 03:24:35 <jSarek> I say once per text of article, then again as needed in picture captions, appearances, sources, references, and so on. sep 09 03:24:35 <Ataru> Keep current policy sep 09 03:24:36 <Graestan> If piped, then once more in proper form? sep 09 03:24:37 <Ozzel> We shouldn't be enforcing 1-per-article, but many do. sep 09 03:24:41 <Imperialles> Consensus seems to be one time only. sep 09 03:24:42 <Havac> It should be case-by-case. sep 09 03:24:44 <Enochf> Per jSarek sep 09 03:24:45 <Ataru> Infoboxes and captions have separate links anyway sep 09 03:24:48 <Ozzel> No, it's not. sep 09 03:24:50 <Havac> A hard only-once rule is shit. sep 09 03:24:51 <The4dotelipsis1> And references. sep 09 03:24:52 <Enochf> Captions don't count sep 09 03:25:00 <Ozzel> What is the purpose of a link? sep 09 03:25:01 <Ataru> Right, captions and boxes don't count sep 09 03:25:03 <Havac> Ataru: those are being eliminated. sep 09 03:25:04 <Ozzel> To help people find info. sep 09 03:25:08 <Ataru> Heh sep 09 03:25:16 <Graestan> Refine the issue. sep 09 03:25:16 <jSarek> Ataru: Yes, but I'm not sure that's actually policy instead of practice. sep 09 03:25:21 <The4dotelipsis1> Ozzel: Where have you been for the last 80 minutes? sep 09 03:25:22 <Ataru> I say one link only sep 09 03:25:25 <The4dotelipsis1> We're not interested in helping people. sep 09 03:25:26 <Darth_Culator> intro | body | infobox | captions | quotes <- once per each sep 09 03:25:27 <Havac> Why> sep 09 03:25:29 <The4dotelipsis1> We're interested in being anal. sep 09 03:25:30 <Ozzel> One link to Anakin SKywalker at the beginning of Luke's doesn't help them when they get to the ANH section. sep 09 03:25:34 <fiolli> Wait . . . I agree with one time only as a guideline; there has to be wiggle-room for long articles, such as Lando Calrissian. I'm working on a copyedit, and there may be points later in the article where things could be relinked. It should be noted. sep 09 03:25:37 <Havac> Per Culator. sep 09 03:25:41 <Ataru> Per Culator sep 09 03:25:45 <Ataru> I can tolerate links in intro sep 09 03:25:45 <jSarek> Hmm, I like Culator's version. sep 09 03:25:46 <Lord_Oblivion> Agree with 4dot sep 09 03:25:48 <Ozzel> No, allow more in the main text. sep 09 03:25:49 <Graestan> per Culator sep 09 03:25:51 <Jedi_Goodwood> Per Culator. sep 09 03:25:51 <Imperialles> I can agree with Culator's *as a guideline* sep 09 03:25:56 <Darth_Culator> Yesp sep 09 03:25:58 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Culator sep 09 03:26:00 <Jedi_Goodwood> Natch. sep 09 03:26:01 <jSarek> Except not quotes. sep 09 03:26:01 <Gonk> Per Imp/Culator sep 09 03:26:02 <The4dotelipsis1> Instruction Creep. sep 09 03:26:02 <Darth_Culator> er Imp. sep 09 03:26:02 <Ataru> Note: This is not a bannable issue sep 09 03:26:03 <Grey-man> Yes, Culator's version works sep 09 03:26:06 <Havac> Per Culator, with possible exceptions for specific issues. sep 09 03:26:08 <Jedimca0> Per Imp sep 09 03:26:12 <LtNOWIS> Nobody's gonna get into an edit war over this. sep 09 03:26:13 <LtNOWIS> I hope. sep 09 03:26:15 <Ozzel> Not per Culator. sep 09 03:26:16 <Ataru> 9_9 sep 09 03:26:20 <ChackJadson> Per Culator sep 09 03:26:21 <Ozzel> Nowis, I've seen it. sep 09 03:26:21 <fiolli> i'm with ozzel sep 09 03:26:23 <jSarek> We've already decided to not link in quotes, and I think that was the right decision. sep 09 03:26:26 <Ineedaname> An admin needs to delete http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hidden5%25, BTW sep 09 03:26:30 <Havac> Not in quotes. sep 09 03:26:34 <Ataru> on it sep 09 03:26:35 <Havac> In quote attributions. sep 09 03:26:36 <Ataru> Not in quotes sep 09 03:26:38 * Jakerl (i=469de07b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-40a33e511c131692) has joined #Wookieepedia sep 09 03:26:40 <LtNOWIS> Quote links were shit the way we set them up. sep 09 03:26:41 <Ataru> In quote attributions sep 09 03:26:42 <Lord_Oblivion> None in quote sep 09 03:26:43 <Graestan> Ataru> Not bannable for overlinking, or not bannable for edit warring regarding this? sep 09 03:26:44 <Lord_Oblivion> s sep 09 03:26:45 <fiolli> not in quotes sep 09 03:26:46 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Havac sep 09 03:26:49 <jSarek> brb sep 09 03:26:50 <Havac> [[Quinlan Vos/Legends|Quinlan Vos]] to [[Tholme/Legends|Tholme]]. sep 09 03:26:53 <Havac> That kind of thing. sep 09 03:26:56 <Ataru> Graestan: For overlinking sep 09 03:26:57 <The4dotelipsis1> Buh. sep 09 03:26:59 <The4dotelipsis1> No. sep 09 03:27:00 <Graestan> Oh ok. sep 09 03:27:01 <Jedimca0> per Havac sep 09 03:27:01 <Gonk> Edit warring's always bannable AFAIK sep 09 03:27:01 <The4dotelipsis1> Not in quotes. sep 09 03:27:05 <The4dotelipsis1> Bad, bad, bad. sep 09 03:27:10 <Ataru> In quote attributions, sure. sep 09 03:27:12 <The4dotelipsis1> You're reading the article, not the quotes. sep 09 03:27:12 <Ataru> Not in quotes sep 09 03:27:13 <Ozzel> I think underlinking is far worse than overlinking. sep 09 03:27:13 <Darth_Culator> Attributions si, in the quote no. sep 09 03:27:15 <Graestan> Gonk> See my earlier item. sep 09 03:27:15 <The4dotelipsis1> You should know who they are. sep 09 03:27:26 <The4dotelipsis1> Not anywhere in the quote for me. sep 09 03:27:28 <Lord_Oblivion> I'm not even sure if we need links in image captions sep 09 03:27:30 <Ozzel> We want to help users find info. sep 09 03:27:34 <fiolli> I would rather overlink than leave a person searching a very long page trying to find a relatively minor item - especially if it was a piped link sep 09 03:27:35 <LucidFox> Per Ozzel. sep 09 03:27:36 <Ozzel> Not keep them from it. sep 09 03:27:41 <Havac> Underlinking is a far greater disservice to everyone involved than overlinking. sep 09 03:27:42 <Ataru> We have consensus I think sep 09 03:27:42 <LucidFox> Underlinking is worse. sep 09 03:27:49 <Imperialles> What's the consensus? sep 09 03:27:52 <Graestan> Okau, regarding piped links: sep 09 03:27:54 <Ataru> Culator's idea sep 09 03:27:59 <Enochf> fiolli: sounds reasonable, but I still say one link per article sep 09 03:28:00 <Ataru> I thought anyways . . . sep 09 03:28:03 <JMAS> I think liking in the attribution of the qyote is fine sep 09 03:28:05 <Imperialles> Culator's idea adopted, moving on. sep 09 03:28:06 <Graestan> Once piped, once more in proper form? sep 09 03:28:07 <Darth_Culator> We'll turn it into a guideline. sep 09 03:28:09 <Ozzel> No, because once in a biography is not enough sep 09 03:28:13 <Ataru> Overruled sep 09 03:28:14 <Ataru> Moving on sep 09 03:28:15 <jSarek> Wow, mom actually took this kind of seriously. I'm schocked. And back. sep 09 03:28:16 <Havac> Not always, at least. sep 09 03:28:18 <Lord_Oblivion> Not in quotes! sep 09 03:28:26 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference. | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: Appearances sep 09 03:28:27 <jSarek> Per Ozzel - overlinking better than underlinking. sep 09 03:28:29 <Enochf> Seems to me a careful reader seeing a new name can read back and find the link, or just type the name in the search box sep 09 03:28:31 <Ozzel> Not always, yes. sep 09 03:28:36 <Imperialles> Hello. First time doing this. I would like to propose that for a character's Appearance list, we list the appearance in which they died (if confirmed). Corellian Premier. sep 09 03:28:41 <fiolli> exactly, the quotes should not be linked and the intro is not enough sep 09 03:28:42 <The4dotelipsis1> Nope. sep 09 03:28:42 <LucidFox> Well... sep 09 03:28:43 <Imperialles> No need. Read the article instead, and check ref tags. sep 09 03:28:43 <Darth_Culator> Feh. sep 09 03:28:46 <GreenTentacle> Heck no. sep 09 03:28:47 <ChackJadson> Just ref death in infobox sep 09 03:28:47 <Ozzel> Nope, don't like it. sep 09 03:28:47 <Enochf> Ooh. Died. sep 09 03:28:48 <SillyDan> Not necessary sep 09 03:28:50 <Graestan> No. sep 09 03:28:50 * Grey-man_ (n=chatzill@d235-142-58.home1.cgocable.net) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 03:28:52 <Ataru> Ref death is infobox sep 09 03:28:54 <The4dotelipsis1> Because then we'll have (stubbed toe) sep 09 03:28:54 * Imperialles gives channel operator status to Grey-man_ sep 09 03:28:55 <Gonk> Infobox is sufficient sep 09 03:28:55 <Ataru> *in sep 09 03:28:56 * Imperialles gives voice to Jakerl sep 09 03:28:58 <Enochf> Yeah, the infoboxes do have a death note. sep 09 03:28:59 <Ozzel> I've noticed people tend to do this on new deaths. sep 09 03:29:05 <Enochf> Well, what about Boba Fett? Multiple deaths? sep 09 03:29:05 <Havac> Kill the death thing. sep 09 03:29:06 <Ataru> Infobox is sufficient, methinks sep 09 03:29:07 <jSarek> Refs are sufficient. That's the point of them. sep 09 03:29:08 <Enochf> Palpatine? sep 09 03:29:11 <Darth_Culator> Infobox. sep 09 03:29:14 <Ozzel> Yes, refs and infoboxes are enough. sep 09 03:29:15 <SillyDan> Besides, the "1st app" refers to OOU debut anyway sep 09 03:29:19 <The4dotelipsis1> No death thing. sep 09 03:29:21 <Havac> Infobox is fine. sep 09 03:29:23 <Ataru> SillyDan makes good sense sep 09 03:29:23 <SillyDan> Next? sep 09 03:29:26 <fiolli> I vote to leave infobox alone as is. sep 09 03:29:27 <Ozzel> Kill the death thing. sep 09 03:29:27 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference. | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: Improvement drive sep 09 03:29:28 <Ataru> Next. sep 09 03:29:30 * Grey-man has quit (Nick collision from services.) sep 09 03:29:30 <Lord_Oblivion> Fett shouldn't have anything marking his "deaths" sep 09 03:29:33 <Imperialles> ID reform. Either a minumum number of votes (so that if no article passes it, there's no ID for that week), or eliminate it altogether. - Sikon 10:14, 5 September 2007 (UTC) sep 09 03:29:34 <Gonk> Eliminate sep 09 03:29:35 <Darth_Culator> Sikon! sep 09 03:29:38 <Ozzel> Improvement drive: voting is dead, improving is not. sep 09 03:29:38 <Darth_Culator> LucidFox! sep 09 03:29:39 <Imperialles> Eliminate the ID. sep 09 03:29:40 <Ataru> I care less about ID sep 09 03:29:42 * Grey-man_ is now known as Grey-man sep 09 03:29:43 <Havac> Eliminate. sep 09 03:29:43 <Enochf> Kill it sep 09 03:29:45 <ChackJadson> ID it terrible sep 09 03:29:46 <Imperialles> I started it years ago, and it NEVER took off sep 09 03:29:46 <Ataru> It's not my problem sep 09 03:29:47 <LtNOWIS> Eliminate. sep 09 03:29:48 <Havac> It does no good. sep 09 03:29:50 <Enochf> Stick a vibro-fork in it. sep 09 03:29:51 <jSarek> Eliminate ID. sep 09 03:29:52 <Jedimca0> Kill it. sep 09 03:29:53 <Darth_Culator> Kill ID. sep 09 03:29:54 <Graestan> Eliminate ID sep 09 03:29:56 <AdmirableAckbar> Kill sep 09 03:29:56 <Ozzel> If I may: "it's not hurting anything." sep 09 03:29:57 <LtNOWIS> It had its moments. sep 09 03:29:59 <Lord_Oblivion> Exterminate! sep 09 03:30:02 <Ozzel> Article are improving. sep 09 03:30:08 <Ozzel> People just aren't voting. sep 09 03:30:09 <The4dotelipsis1> Hang on... sep 09 03:30:10 <Ataru> It's not hurting anything sep 09 03:30:12 <The4dotelipsis1> I've got an idea for ID. sep 09 03:30:13 <Ataru> I give apathy vote! sep 09 03:30:14 <Graestan> It's a link for casual users on the Main Page to crap. sep 09 03:30:14 <Enochf> Besides, FA is taken up the slack on article expansion. sep 09 03:30:15 <The4dotelipsis1> Which everyone will hate. sep 09 03:30:17 <Grey-man> I'm neutral to it, don't really care sep 09 03:30:17 <Imperialles> Parting is such sweet sorrow... Farewell Improvement Drive. sep 09 03:30:19 <Havac> Per Grae. sep 09 03:30:19 <Enochf> *has taken sep 09 03:30:20 <AdmirableAckbar> We need to change it then sep 09 03:30:21 <Lord_Oblivion> EX-TER-MI-NATE! sep 09 03:30:21 <Ozzel> It invites new users to contribute, which is good. sep 09 03:30:22 <fiolli> I'm not against killing it, but it could be useful if it was used. I just don't see it used. sep 09 03:30:22 <Gonk> I have observed IDrive hurting articles. sep 09 03:30:24 <The4dotelipsis1> We appoint someone the Grand Dude of ID. sep 09 03:30:27 <jSarek> Per Grae. sep 09 03:30:33 <Gonk> When Tatooine won, it was a clusterfuck. sep 09 03:30:33 <Imperialles> I hate it, Dot sep 09 03:30:34 <Darth_Culator> Wait. Look at the history for [[Star Destroyer/Legends|Star Destroyer]]. Kill Nebulax, then bring back ID. sep 09 03:30:37 <GreenTentacle> We hate it. :P sep 09 03:30:38 <ChackJadson> How much does ID help anyway? sep 09 03:30:42 <Ataru> Very little sep 09 03:30:45 <Havac> IDrive doesn't do a lot. sep 09 03:30:45 <Enochf> Not much. sep 09 03:30:48 <LtNOWIS> It helps for non-existent articles. sep 09 03:30:49 <fiolli> Well, in a perfect world ID would be great sep 09 03:30:50 <Ataru> It sucked at fixing up any FA the Inq stripped sep 09 03:30:51 <Havac> It gets a lot of people to make two edits. sep 09 03:30:51 <Enochf> Tried to improve Sorocco. No dice. sep 09 03:30:53 <ChackJadson> Thought so sep 09 03:30:54 <AdmirableAckbar> Te voting system is useless sep 09 03:30:54 <fiolli> or perfect galaxy sep 09 03:30:55 <Gonk> We can always bring it back later, when FA/GA have slowed down or something. sep 09 03:30:55 <LtNOWIS> I've gotten good results a couple times. sep 09 03:30:57 <AdmirableAckbar> *the sep 09 03:31:02 <LtNOWIS> Battle of Hapes, Imperial Military. sep 09 03:31:04 <Ataru> It's like tear gas sep 09 03:31:05 <Havac> You can't just invite people to fix something. sep 09 03:31:06 <Ataru> Sometimes it works sep 09 03:31:10 <LucidFox> ID was actually useful when we were just starting, but now we're more or less complete. sep 09 03:31:12 <Grey-man> 9_9 sep 09 03:31:12 <Ataru> Sometimes it hurts your eyes too look at sep 09 03:31:13 <Ozzel> If we get rid of it, we need to replace it with something similar then. sep 09 03:31:13 <Ataru> *to sep 09 03:31:14 <Imperialles> Consensus is to kill the ID. Yee-haw. sep 09 03:31:16 <Havac> If something needs fixing, get someone who knows something about it to fix it. sep 09 03:31:16 <SillyDan> Has lost its purpose. Put it on hiatus, possibly replace it with something better. sep 09 03:31:18 <jSarek> I love you, Ataru. sep 09 03:31:20 <Imperialles> Ozzel: WookieeProjects sep 09 03:31:21 <The4dotelipsis1> MORE OR LESS COMPLETE?!?! sep 09 03:31:24 <Ozzel> Complete? HA! sep 09 03:31:25 <LtNOWIS> "Let's IDrive TPM and see if it'll become an FA" = Stupid idea. sep 09 03:31:25 <Darth_Culator> Funny. sep 09 03:31:26 <The4dotelipsis1> Do you shit me? sep 09 03:31:28 <AdmirableAckbar> Per 4dot sep 09 03:31:32 <Ataru> MORE OR LESS COMPLETE??!!! BAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! sep 09 03:31:33 <LucidFox> I said "more or less". sep 09 03:31:35 <Enochf> Complete. There's a knee-slappah. sep 09 03:31:37 <The4dotelipsis1> LESS. sep 09 03:31:39 <The4dotelipsis1> Very less. sep 09 03:31:42 <Imperialles> Topic. sep 09 03:31:42 <Enochf> Much less, good sir. sep 09 03:31:43 <Ataru> BAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sep 09 03:31:43 <AdmirableAckbar> very very sep 09 03:31:47 <Ataru> Sorry sep 09 03:31:48 <LucidFox> Can I remove ID from the main page already? sep 09 03:31:50 <Imperialles> ID is dead, moving on. sep 09 03:31:52 <Imperialles> Yes, Sikon. sep 09 03:31:53 <Lord_Oblivion> EX-TER-MI-NATE! sep 09 03:31:54 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference. | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: FA quality sep 09 03:31:55 <Lord_Oblivion> DAMMIT sep 09 03:31:56 <The4dotelipsis1> Kill it with a stick. sep 09 03:31:58 * Enochf mourns ID sep 09 03:31:58 <Imperialles> Wookieeproject to make sure FAs on the main page are up to date, and that any changes since they were Featured are all positive. -LtNOWIS 18:29, 6 September 2007 (UTC) sep 09 03:31:58 <Havac> We already have WookieeProjects that handle improvement a hell of a lot better. sep 09 03:31:59 <Ozzel> Wait, what are we replacing ID with? sep 09 03:32:03 <fiolli> Well, the Wookieeprojects are special . . . I'm not sure that is a good replacement. sep 09 03:32:06 <The4dotelipsis1> ... sep 09 03:32:07 <jSarek> Per Havac. sep 09 03:32:08 <The4dotelipsis1> Crazy. sep 09 03:32:08 <Graestan> The INQ needs to step up to the plate on this issue. sep 09 03:32:10 <Enochf> Don't care about FA nonsense. sep 09 03:32:12 <LtNOWIS> I didn't think we'd get this far on the agenda. sep 09 03:32:12 <Imperialles> I told you, Ozzel. WProjects. sep 09 03:32:12 <Ataru> What issue? sep 09 03:32:25 <Havac> Original person to take it to FA should watch over it. sep 09 03:32:26 <Darth_Culator> Solution: New round of Inquisition. sep 09 03:32:27 <LtNOWIS> But even with the shortened main page time, there's still a long time on the queue. sep 09 03:32:28 <Imperialles> I say no need for a project. Simply limit the queue to two months into the future, and let the Inq decide what articles get featured. Also, abolish the two FA system. sep 09 03:32:28 <Ataru> FA Quality is pretty durn good if I may say so sep 09 03:32:28 <The4dotelipsis1> It's the responsibility of the original author. sep 09 03:32:29 <Ozzel> Eh, I'll get back to you later about it. sep 09 03:32:30 <Grey-man> It's not just up to the Inq's to keep FA's up to par sep 09 03:32:34 <Grey-man> it's the cummunity sep 09 03:32:35 <GreenTentacle> Per Havac. sep 09 03:32:36 <Ataru> What? sep 09 03:32:39 <Grey-man> *community sep 09 03:32:41 <Ataru> Keep current policy sep 09 03:32:43 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Havac sep 09 03:32:43 <The4dotelipsis1> Yep, per Havac. sep 09 03:32:48 <jSarek> Often there is no original author, though. sep 09 03:32:52 <Ataru> LIES! sep 09 03:32:55 <Havac> Usually there is. sep 09 03:32:58 <Grey-man> yes sep 09 03:32:58 <The4dotelipsis1> That's the article's fault. sep 09 03:33:01 <Ataru> 90% of FAs have a "sponsor" sep 09 03:33:02 <Ozzel> Abolish the two FA system? Are you joking Imp? sep 09 03:33:06 <Imperialles> No. sep 09 03:33:06 <Ataru> Keep two FA system sep 09 03:33:07 <jSarek> And if the original author leaves (may happen, given our long lead times), nothing might get done. sep 09 03:33:11 <fiolli> You're inviting edit wars, folks. sep 09 03:33:13 <Darth_Culator> I like the 2 FA. sep 09 03:33:13 <ChackJadson> No one restores old FA that have lost their status. I say WP. sep 09 03:33:14 <Ataru> jSarek: It happens sep 09 03:33:14 <SillyDan> Keep 2 FA system sep 09 03:33:14 <Imperialles> We need a selective system. sep 09 03:33:15 <LtNOWIS> If an ongoing comic character is FA'd, like Zayne, than a lot of stuff gets changed. sep 09 03:33:16 <Ozzel> Just because you weren't here when we voted on it... sep 09 03:33:19 <GreenTentacle> Keep the 2 FA system. sep 09 03:33:24 <LtNOWIS> Stay on topic. sep 09 03:33:29 <Graestan> Keep 2 FA sep 09 03:33:29 <Ataru> Imperialles; Stay on topic sep 09 03:33:30 <Ozzel> I point you here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:CT_Archive/Shortening_the_featured_article_time sep 09 03:33:33 <Ataru> 2 FA system isn't topic sep 09 03:33:39 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Ataru sep 09 03:33:39 <The4dotelipsis1> Hang on, idea. sep 09 03:33:40 <Imperialles> Very well sep 09 03:33:40 <Ozzel> It was overwhelmingly supported. sep 09 03:33:45 <Imperialles> Ozzel: Topic sep 09 03:33:47 <The4dotelipsis1> If an article is within three days of going up on the main page... sep 09 03:33:52 <jSarek> I say make articles that were FAs prior to the Inq that got downgraded eligible for refeaturing. sep 09 03:33:53 <The4dotelipsis1> And it still has the "Incoming" template... sep 09 03:33:54 <Ozzel> You brought it up. sep 09 03:33:57 <The4dotelipsis1> Inq's stagger it in the Queue. sep 09 03:33:58 <Ataru> I see no need for further WookieeProjects sep 09 03:33:58 <Imperialles> :| sep 09 03:33:59 <jSarek> That would encourage their improvement. sep 09 03:34:00 <Ataru> jSarek: topic sep 09 03:34:00 * DarthGladius (i=47a14afd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-7fd3cb4b592076b0) has left #wookieepedia sep 09 03:34:03 <The4dotelipsis1> Any takers? sep 09 03:34:07 <AdmirableAckbar> Yes sep 09 03:34:11 <Imperialles> No need for a WProject. sep 09 03:34:17 <Grey-man> Per imp sep 09 03:34:19 <Ataru> The4dotelipsis1: topic sep 09 03:34:21 <Havac> No project. sep 09 03:34:23 <Lord_Oblivion> Yep sep 09 03:34:23 <The4dotelipsis1> Yeah... sep 09 03:34:24 <Ataru> No need for WProject sep 09 03:34:26 <Graestan> No need for WProject sep 09 03:34:28 <LtNOWIS> Fine. sep 09 03:34:30 <AdmirableAckbar> No project sep 09 03:34:31 <Ataru> Projects don't need Mofference approval anyways sep 09 03:34:31 <The4dotelipsis1> This is the topic. sep 09 03:34:33 <Ataru> You want one sep 09 03:34:33 <Lord_Oblivion> Per them sep 09 03:34:34 <LtNOWIS> But it should still be thought about. sep 09 03:34:35 <Ataru> Go make one sep 09 03:34:38 <The4dotelipsis1> Instead of the WP, we stagger. sep 09 03:34:40 <Ataru> Then go make one sep 09 03:34:42 <GreenTentacle> No project. sep 09 03:34:47 <Imperialles> That's settled, then. sep 09 03:34:48 <Jedimca0> No WPproject sep 09 03:34:49 <Imperialles> Next! sep 09 03:34:50 <fiolli> 4dot: I think that might work sep 09 03:34:53 <Ataru> Next! sep 09 03:34:54 <Grey-man> Yes sep 09 03:34:54 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference. | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: Galleries sep 09 03:34:55 <GreenTentacle> Last! sep 09 03:34:58 <fiolli> arg sep 09 03:34:59 <Imperialles> Replacing image galleries with image categories. Better for maintenance, better for copyright compliance. Works for Memory Alpha. Why not implement it here? -- Darth Culator (Talk) 19:54, 8 September 2007 (UTC) sep 09 03:35:03 <Imperialles> Burn the galleries. sep 09 03:35:05 <Jedi_Goodwood> Reject. sep 09 03:35:05 <Gonk> Strong support sep 09 03:35:07 <LtNOWIS> Some galleries need the structure. sep 09 03:35:07 <Ataru> Are those tag thingies working yet? sep 09 03:35:08 <jSarek> Support. sep 09 03:35:08 <GreenTentacle> Galleries must die. sep 09 03:35:08 <Grey-man> Support sep 09 03:35:09 <Imperialles> Strong strong support. sep 09 03:35:12 <Graestan> Support sep 09 03:35:12 <Darth_Culator> Step 1: Tag every image in a gallery with a category. sep 09 03:35:13 <Ozzel> If Wikia could work out the bugs in the tagging system, I'd be for this. sep 09 03:35:14 <SillyDan> Per LtNOWIS sep 09 03:35:16 <Havac> I don't care. sep 09 03:35:16 <LtNOWIS> Character deaths, for example, must stay. sep 09 03:35:18 <Darth_Culator> Step 2: Delete the galleries. sep 09 03:35:20 <Lord_Oblivion> Support sep 09 03:35:23 <Graestan> Too many galleries with missing images, now. sep 09 03:35:24 <Ozzel> But tagging isn't quite up to snuff yet. sep 09 03:35:27 <Ataru> If Wikia could work out the the bugs in the tagging system, I'd be for this sep 09 03:35:28 <Darth_Culator> Step 3: Profit. Or don't get sued. sep 09 03:35:35 <Havac> Tagging should die. sep 09 03:35:37 <Ataru> Darth_Culator: Talk to me when the tag system works sep 09 03:35:38 <Lord_Oblivion> Tagging suck atm. sep 09 03:35:42 <Darth_Culator> CATEGORIES sep 09 03:35:43 <Imperialles> We can categorize images without tags. sep 09 03:35:44 <Havac> At least until it works halfway properly. sep 09 03:35:46 <Darth_Culator> Not tags. sep 09 03:35:47 <Graestan> Tagging is the worst. Categories. sep 09 03:35:47 <Lord_Oblivion> *sucks sep 09 03:35:48 <Gonk> Tagging is irrelevant here sep 09 03:35:48 <LtNOWIS> Galleries are fine if the images aren't unique. sep 09 03:35:50 <Ozzel> Ataru: Per Ozzel. You can say it. ;-) sep 09 03:35:55 <Ataru> Per Ozzel sep 09 03:35:56 <Imperialles> Where's everyone getting tagging from? sep 09 03:35:57 <Ataru> :-D sep 09 03:36:01 <Imperialles> This is CATEGORIES. sep 09 03:36:04 <Ataru> Meh sep 09 03:36:05 <Lord_Oblivion> Lets do it sep 09 03:36:06 <Grey-man> ya, tagging is not the issue sep 09 03:36:07 <fiolli> per Ozzel sep 09 03:36:08 <GreenTentacle> [02:34] <Darth_Culator> Step 1: Tag every image in a gallery with a category. sep 09 03:36:10 <Ineedaname> Tagging automatically creates categories, when it works sep 09 03:36:10 <Grey-man> darn lag sep 09 03:36:11 <jSarek> Imp: Tagging can create psuedo-galleries. sep 09 03:36:13 <GreenTentacle> Maybe there. :P sep 09 03:36:13 <LtNOWIS> Character deaths could not be organized with categories. At all. sep 09 03:36:21 <Lord_Oblivion> jSarek sep 09 03:36:22 <Imperialles> We're not doing tag galleries. sep 09 03:36:27 <Imperialles> We're doing categories. sep 09 03:36:27 <LucidFox> Image categories? sep 09 03:36:28 <Lord_Oblivion> : not now, it can;t sep 09 03:36:30 <LucidFox> Strong support. sep 09 03:36:31 <Havac> Categories are fine. sep 09 03:36:33 <Darth_Culator> Tags are broken forever. sep 09 03:36:35 <Ataru> Meh, I don't care sep 09 03:36:37 <Havac> I don't care about galleries. sep 09 03:36:39 <Imperialles> Which seems to be supported by the majority. sep 09 03:36:40 <LucidFox> Galleries should die anyway. sep 09 03:36:43 <Ozzel> Now I'm lost. I thought the galleries we created by tags. sep 09 03:36:43 <Darth_Culator> So replace galleries with categories? sep 09 03:36:44 <Ataru> Images are no problem with me as long as I get what I want in the article sep 09 03:36:46 <Lord_Oblivion> "Step 1: Tag every image in a gallery with a category." sep 09 03:36:48 <Lord_Oblivion> Ah. sep 09 03:36:49 <jSarek> Galleries should die, with or without tagging working or wanted. sep 09 03:36:49 <GreenTentacle> No to galleries, no to tags, yes to categories. sep 09 03:36:54 <fiolli> I'm lost too sep 09 03:36:54 <AdmirableAckbar> Per GT sep 09 03:36:57 <Graestan> per GT sep 09 03:36:57 <Gonk> Motion to discuss tags after THIS topic. sep 09 03:36:58 <Lord_Oblivion> Someone saw the word "tag" sep 09 03:37:05 <The4dotelipsis1> Galleries? sep 09 03:37:06 <Lord_Oblivion> And misinterpreted sep 09 03:37:07 <The4dotelipsis1> DESTRAY sep 09 03:37:08 <Jedimca0> Per GreenTentacle sep 09 03:37:09 <The4dotelipsis1> BAHLETE! sep 09 03:37:10 <Darth_Culator> Gonk: Seconded. sep 09 03:37:14 <LtNOWIS> But yeah, most galleries are crappy. sep 09 03:37:15 <Jedi_Goodwood> Keep galleries. sep 09 03:37:17 <Graestan> Gonk: I'm with you, too. sep 09 03:37:17 <jSarek> Support Gonk's motion. sep 09 03:37:20 <Ozzel> Well, tags create automatic image groups. sep 09 03:37:24 <Imperialles> Ok, then. Burn the galleries, categorize images. sep 09 03:37:26 <Imperialles> Rule adopted. sep 09 03:37:29 <The4dotelipsis1> Remove Galleries from Saber form articles and such. sep 09 03:37:29 <JMAS> I support Culator's idea sep 09 03:37:35 <Imperialles> Agenda concluded. sep 09 03:37:38 <Ataru> The4dotelipsis1: yes sep 09 03:37:40 <Darth_Culator> It's self-cleaning. sep 09 03:37:42 <SillyDan> Yay sep 09 03:37:42 <Jedi_Goodwood> Question sep 09 03:37:42 <Darth_Culator> Wait! sep 09 03:37:45 <fiolli> What about galleries on pages sep 09 03:37:47 <Darth_Culator> Gonk's motion! sep 09 03:37:49 <Gonk> next topic: tags? sep 09 03:37:51 <Lord_Oblivion> Nice sep 09 03:37:53 <fiolli> yes - Gonk sep 09 03:37:54 <Darth_Culator> Ues. sep 09 03:37:55 <Havac> Kill tagging. sep 09 03:37:56 <Imperialles> Galleries on pages are NOT the issue. sep 09 03:37:59 <Darth_Culator> TURN OFF TAGGING. sep 09 03:38:00 <Ataru> I give you a strong apathy vote sep 09 03:38:05 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference. | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: Tagging sep 09 03:38:05 <GreenTentacle> Per Culator. sep 09 03:38:07 <Darth_Culator> It's broken. sep 09 03:38:09 <Imperialles> Turn off tagging. sep 09 03:38:10 <Jedi_Goodwood> Do Image Categories show up as lists if image links or thumbnails? sep 09 03:38:10 <Havac> Tagging is . . . hopelessly broken. sep 09 03:38:11 <The4dotelipsis1> Tagging? sep 09 03:38:11 <Darth_Culator> In a hundred ways. sep 09 03:38:12 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Culator sep 09 03:38:13 <Lord_Oblivion> In article galleries are fine by me sep 09 03:38:13 <GreenTentacle> It doesn't bloody work. sep 09 03:38:14 <Gonk> Kill tags until they work, and when they do work, vote on adopting them at all even then. sep 09 03:38:14 <Jedimca0> Destroy Tagging. sep 09 03:38:14 <The4dotelipsis1> What's the point? sep 09 03:38:15 <fiolli> What do you mean "tagging" ? sep 09 03:38:16 <ChackJadson> Tagging is useless sep 09 03:38:20 <Graestan> No Tags sep 09 03:38:20 <LtNOWIS> I demand an exemption for Gallery of deaths of individuals. sep 09 03:38:22 <Gonk> Image tags sep 09 03:38:23 <The4dotelipsis1> "This is a breast' sep 09 03:38:26 <JMAS> KillKil taging sep 09 03:38:26 * DonovanHalya (i=474bf733@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-566998cfa3719c78) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 03:38:27 <Grey-man> Tagging....is...utterly...useless atm sep 09 03:38:30 * Imperialles gives voice to DonovanHalya sep 09 03:38:31 <Graestan> per LtNOWIS sep 09 03:38:36 <Ataru> Tagging is utterly useless atm sep 09 03:38:38 <fiolli> Ah sep 09 03:38:38 <Lord_Oblivion> Somebody fucked up tagging sep 09 03:38:41 <Imperialles> Too late, NOWIS sep 09 03:38:43 <Ozzel> People can remove them without anyone else knowing. sep 09 03:38:45 <Darth_Culator> So, motion to get Wikia to turn it off for us like they did with YouTube? sep 09 03:38:46 <Jedimca0> Per Grey-man sep 09 03:38:47 <Imperialles> Make a category for those sep 09 03:38:53 <Gonk> Yes Culator sep 09 03:38:56 <LtNOWIS> How would we organize it? sep 09 03:38:56 <Graestan> Second Culator's motion sep 09 03:38:59 <GreenTentacle> Per Culator. sep 09 03:39:01 <Ataru> Per Culator sep 09 03:39:05 <ChackJadson> yep sep 09 03:39:06 <Ataru> Turn off this useless garbage sep 09 03:39:07 <LtNOWIS> Without sections and such sep 09 03:39:08 * Jedi_Goodwood is lost too. sep 09 03:39:09 <Ozzel> I wouldn't miss it. sep 09 03:39:11 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Culator sep 09 03:39:11 <Havac> Turn it off. sep 09 03:39:12 <jSarek> What exactly is the brokenness of tagging? sep 09 03:39:13 <Grey-man> Yes sep 09 03:39:22 <Enochf> Don't get tagging. Won't miss it. sep 09 03:39:27 <Darth_Culator> Logging is inconsistent. sep 09 03:39:29 <GreenTentacle> You can tag to an article that doesn't exist. sep 09 03:39:33 <Ineedaname> Tagging is seriously flawed in its current implentation sep 09 03:39:35 <GreenTentacle> You can tag to no article at all. sep 09 03:39:37 <Darth_Culator> Can't block people from adding or removing. sep 09 03:39:40 <LucidFox> Kill tags. sep 09 03:39:42 <Imperialles> Consensus is to remove tagging. Bye-bye tagging. sep 09 03:39:45 <Havac> Kill them. sep 09 03:39:46 <Ozzel> When someone removes a tag, you don't see what it was in RC, just who removed it. sep 09 03:39:47 <jSarek> Okay, kill until fixed. sep 09 03:39:50 <Darth_Culator> Gallery it's supposed to generate doesn't exist. sep 09 03:39:55 <Imperialles> Moving on. sep 09 03:39:56 <GreenTentacle> When you click on the link to bring up the gallery nothing appears. sep 09 03:39:56 <Ineedaname> Anons can add crap and it doesn't show up in the tag log sep 09 03:40:01 <GreenTentacle> In short, it's crap. sep 09 03:40:05 <Grey-man> yes sep 09 03:40:05 <LtNOWIS> ok than sep 09 03:40:08 <Imperialles> Goodwood had an issue he wanted to discuss. sep 09 03:40:10 * Imperialles has changed the topic to: Yes, this is the Mofference. | The channel is moderated. Spammers will be devoiced. | Current topic: Goodwood sep 09 03:40:14 <jSarek> Understood, and agree with proposal to kill until functional. sep 09 03:40:14 <LucidFox> o_O sep 09 03:40:15 <Imperialles> Go ahead, Goodwood. sep 09 03:40:17 <Darth_Culator> You can interrupt the process and have the tag stick but the log not show it. sep 09 03:40:20 <Darth_Culator> Oh. sep 09 03:40:21 <Ataru> Goodwood is a user sep 09 03:40:23 * DonovanHalya (i=474bf733@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-566998cfa3719c78) has left #wookieepedia sep 09 03:40:28 <Ataru> Is there anything to add to that? sep 09 03:40:31 <Imperialles> :P sep 09 03:40:34 <Graestan> I oppose Goodwood :P sep 09 03:40:35 <Imperialles> Let him type. sep 09 03:40:37 <Jedi_Goodwood> First, allow access to the bot for Admins only. sep 09 03:40:44 <LucidFox> Nuku-Nuku? sep 09 03:40:46 <Jedi_Goodwood> Second, no more secret commands. sep 09 03:40:47 <Havac> Don't even allow that. sep 09 03:40:48 <Jedi_Goodwood> Yes. sep 09 03:40:53 <Darth_Culator> Bah! sep 09 03:40:53 <Grey-man> LucidFox > Yes sep 09 03:40:54 <jSarek> Support Goodwood. Support right of Goodwood to type his proposal. sep 09 03:40:55 <GreenTentacle> Bah! sep 09 03:40:56 * Jakerl has quit (Remote closed the connection) sep 09 03:40:57 <Graestan> Support sep 09 03:40:59 <fiolli> Support sep 09 03:41:01 <Imperialles> Support sep 09 03:41:02 <Darth_Culator> The bot is useful. sep 09 03:41:03 <AdmirableAckbar> Support Goodwood sep 09 03:41:05 <LucidFox> !say Bah! sep 09 03:41:05 <Nuku-Nuku> Bah! sep 09 03:41:05 <AdmirableAckbar> or Havac sep 09 03:41:07 <Jedimca0> Support sep 09 03:41:09 <Lord_Oblivion> Oppose sep 09 03:41:10 <Darth_Culator> No changes. sep 09 03:41:10 <Ataru> Shoot Nuku-Nuku, but support Goodwood if that doesn't work sep 09 03:41:12 <GreenTentacle> Reject. sep 09 03:41:15 <GreenTentacle> !say Reject. sep 09 03:41:15 <Nuku-Nuku> Reject. sep 09 03:41:19 <Darth_Culator> Oppose changes to bot system. sep 09 03:41:23 <Havac> Support. sep 09 03:41:29 <Grey-man> What's wrong with ChanServ sep 09 03:41:30 <jSarek> Reject. Google functions and other tricks are useful for all levels of user. sep 09 03:41:39 <LtNOWIS> Per jSarek sep 09 03:41:41 <GreenTentacle> Indeed. sep 09 03:41:41 <Imperialles> Not ChanServ. Nuku. sep 09 03:41:42 <LucidFox> Per jSarek sep 09 03:41:45 <Ataru> You want Google? Go use Google.com sep 09 03:41:45 <Jedi_Goodwood> But jSarek, a lot of them are disabled for regular users. sep 09 03:41:48 <Gonk> Support #1, neutral vote #2. sep 09 03:41:51 <Darth_Culator> Looks like no consensus. sep 09 03:41:55 <Imperialles> No.. sep 09 03:42:00 <Imperialles> There were two proposals sep 09 03:42:04 <LucidFox> Only op-related commands are disabled. sep 09 03:42:07 <Grey-man> Support...yes, but what is so damn special about Nuku that we *have* to have the bot around? sep 09 03:42:11 <LucidFox> for regular users, that is. sep 09 03:42:12 <Imperialles> "First, allow access to the bot for Admins only." Adopt this rule? sep 09 03:42:14 <fiolli> slow down and let's tally votes for each sep 09 03:42:14 <Imperialles> Adopt. sep 09 03:42:18 <fiolli> adopt sep 09 03:42:18 <Ineedaname> It'd be pretty stupid to limit Google searches to admins only sep 09 03:42:19 <Darth_Culator> Reject. sep 09 03:42:19 <LucidFox> No. sep 09 03:42:19 <Gonk> adopt sep 09 03:42:21 <jSarek> Reject. sep 09 03:42:22 <Ozzel> I oppose the existence of the bot. But no one really cares. sep 09 03:42:22 <Havac> Adopt. sep 09 03:42:22 <AdmirableAckbar> adopt sep 09 03:42:24 <Jedimca0> Yes sep 09 03:42:25 <GreenTentacle> Reject. sep 09 03:42:26 <ChackJadson> Adopt sep 09 03:42:27 <Grey-man> Yes sep 09 03:42:28 <Lord_Oblivion> Reject sep 09 03:42:29 <Graestan> Adopt sep 09 03:42:34 <Jedi_Goodwood> Let me refine the proposal then. sep 09 03:42:39 <Havac> I oppose the bot, and I oppose Culator's refusal to allow anyone to tamper with his toy. sep 09 03:42:39 <Jedi_Goodwood> Nail it down to one. sep 09 03:42:42 <Ataru> Reject sep 09 03:42:46 <Jedi_Goodwood> Nuku-Nuku: Stay or go? sep 09 03:42:50 <Ataru> Go! sep 09 03:42:50 <Darth_Culator> STAY sep 09 03:42:51 <LucidFox> Stay. sep 09 03:42:51 <Imperialles> Go. sep 09 03:42:52 <Graestan> GO sep 09 03:42:53 <Havac> Go. sep 09 03:42:53 <jSarek> Stay. sep 09 03:42:54 <Ineedaname> Stay sep 09 03:42:54 <Ozzel> Go. sep 09 03:42:55 <GreenTentacle> Stay! sep 09 03:42:55 <Grey-man> Go sep 09 03:42:56 <Jedi_Goodwood> Go sep 09 03:42:56 <Gonk> Stay sep 09 03:42:58 <Enochf> GO sep 09 03:42:59 <AdmirableAckbar> Go sep 09 03:43:00 <Jedimca0> Go sep 09 03:43:01 <Ozzel> :-) sep 09 03:43:02 <LtNOWIS> Stay sep 09 03:43:03 <The4dotelipsis1> I don't know what the topic is, but I call Instruction Creep. sep 09 03:43:06 <Imperialles> No consensus. sep 09 03:43:07 <Gonk> lol sep 09 03:43:08 <LucidFox> lol sep 09 03:43:09 <The4dotelipsis1> Stay. sep 09 03:43:09 <Enochf> This reminds me of Requiem for Methuselah sep 09 03:43:10 <fiolli> go sep 09 03:43:12 <Imperialles> Rule not adopted. sep 09 03:43:13 <Jedi_Goodwood> *sigh* sep 09 03:43:14 <Nuku-Nuku> I want to go sep 09 03:43:15 <Ataru> Yeah, no consensus sep 09 03:43:16 <Ataru> Pity sep 09 03:43:19 <Darth_Culator> YAAAAY! sep 09 03:43:20 <Gonk> This reminds me of the end of The Undead. sep 09 03:43:25 <Imperialles> However, I demand you remove Jaymach from Nuku's op list. sep 09 03:43:26 <The4dotelipsis1> Google "Wild Turkey" sep 09 03:43:27 <Nuku-Nuku> http://www.wildturkeybourbon.com/ sep 09 03:43:28 <Lord_Oblivion> Wooooo sep 09 03:43:29 <The4dotelipsis1> Exactly. sep 09 03:43:31 <Darth_Culator> Imp: Done. sep 09 03:43:32 <Jedi_Goodwood> Already done. sep 09 03:43:33 <The4dotelipsis1> Accept no Imitations. sep 09 03:43:34 <Graestan> per Imp sep 09 03:43:35 <Ataru> Yes, remove Jaymach from Nuku's op list sep 09 03:43:42 <Havac> Yay, a . . . completely pointless feature. sep 09 03:43:47 <Grey-man> Per Havac sep 09 03:43:51 <fiolli> Woah, we need to slow down and vote on this - with a real tally sep 09 03:43:57 <Imperialles> "Second, no more secret commands." Adopt this rule? sep 09 03:43:58 <LucidFox> Proposal: Disable !say. sep 09 03:43:59 <Darth_Culator> He only has bot ops in other channels like #stargate. sep 09 03:43:59 <Grey-man> what's stopping me from going to Firefox and using google? Nothing sep 09 03:44:00 <Lord_Oblivion> Maybe later sep 09 03:44:02 <Havac> Let's have more pointless disruptive shit! sep 09 03:44:04 <Jedi_Goodwood> I agree with Fiolli. sep 09 03:44:05 <The4dotelipsis1> Google "useless" sep 09 03:44:06 * Kilson (i=1891ea5e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-94c7548ae38d7772) has joined #wookieepedia sep 09 03:44:06 <Nuku-Nuku> http://home.nycap.rr.com/useless/ sep 09 03:44:07 <LucidFox> Imperialles> Yes. sep 09 03:44:10 <LtNOWIS> The bot makes it easier. sep 09 03:44:12 <Havac> It's SO GREAT! sep 09 03:44:13 <Lord_Oblivion> Shut up, Havac. sep 09 03:44:15 * Imperialles gives voice to Kilson sep 09 03:44:22 <Kilson> Sorry I'm late sep 09 03:44:23 <Lord_Oblivion> We're aware you have a problem with the bot sep 09 03:44:24 <Ineedaname> Define "secret commands" sep 09 03:44:24 * Imperialles removes channel operator status from The4dotelipsis1 sep 09 03:44:30 <LucidFox> Anonymous commands. sep 09 03:44:32 * ChanServ removes voice from Lord_Oblivion sep 09 03:44:32 <Graestan> per Havac sep 09 03:44:36 <LucidFox> That can't be traced. sep 09 03:44:38 <Enochf> No more commands given to the bot to kick others sep 09 03:44:40 <LucidFox> To a user. sep 09 03:44:43 <Enochf> *ahem* sep 09 03:44:43 <Kilson> What's the topic? sep 09 03:44:44 <Havac> No more secret commands. sep 09 03:44:47 <Gonk> Adopt sep 09 03:44:50 <AdmirableAckbar> Per Havac sep 09 03:44:50 <fiolli> adopt sep 09 03:44:51 <Jedi_Goodwood> Secret commands are commands given to the bot that are hidden from the rest of the room. sep 09 03:44:52 <Enochf> A-dopt sep 09 03:44:54 <Ataru> I support all restrictions on the bot sep 09 03:44:55 <Darth_Culator> Reject. sep 09 03:44:56 <Jedi_Goodwood> This includes secret kicks. sep 09 03:44:57 <Jedimca0> Adopt sep 09 03:44:59 <LucidFox> Adopt. sep 09 03:45:00 <AdmirableAckbar> so adopt sep 09 03:45:01 <Imperialles> Adopt sep 09 03:45:03 <Grey-man> Yes sep 09 03:45:04 <Kilson> Adopt sep 09 03:45:05 <ChackJadson> Adopt sep 09 03:45:08 <Graestan> Adopt sep 09 03:45:08 <Darth_Culator> Oh well. sep 09 03:45:08 <Ataru> adopt sep 09 03:45:08 * Imperialles gives channel operator status to The4dotelipsis1 sep 09 03:45:15 <LucidFox> Then... sep 09 03:45:15 <GreenTentacle> Reject. sep 09 03:45:17 <Enochf> Take that! sep 09 03:45:18 <Ozzel> Adopt sep 09 03:45:19 <fiolli> ok, so its adopted sep 09 03:45:20 <Enochf> Secret kicker sep 09 03:45:23 <LucidFox> !disable say sep 09 03:45:23 * ChanServ gives voice to Lord_Oblivion sep 09 03:45:23 <Nuku-Nuku> LucidFox: *purr* sep 09 03:45:25 <LucidFox> !disable do sep 09 03:45:25 <Imperialles> Adopted. Moving on. sep 09 03:45:25 <Nuku-Nuku> LucidFox: *purr* sep 09 03:45:30 <Lord_Oblivion> what was that about? sep 09 03:45:31 <Jedi_Goodwood> :) sep 09 03:45:33 <LtNOWIS> Moving on to what? sep 09 03:45:42 <Imperialles> Now, anyone got ANY issues at all? sep 09 03:45:42 <Ataru> Infinity? sep 09 03:45:42 <Ozzel> What about fanon... do we want to go there tonight? Or not? sep 09 03:45:43 <LtNOWIS> We blasted through the agenda. sep 09 03:45:43 <AdmirableAckbar> bed sep 09 03:45:43 <Ataru> Cookiees? sep 09 03:45:44 <Graestan> I had something, but I'll start a CT sep 09 03:45:46 <Jedimca0> Sleep sep 09 03:45:46 <Gonk> The post-Mofference cocktail party