Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Visas Marr

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Visas Marr

  • Nominated by: * Cylka * 20:47, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments: My first GA nom... please be gentle :)

(2 ACs/5 Users/7 Total)

Support

  1. Very good for a first GA. I trust the remainder of NaruHina's objections will be addressed. SoresuMakashi(Everything I tell you is a lie) 02:19, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
  2. Nice one, Fraulein. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 05:13, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
  3. IFYLOFD (And now, young Skywalker, you will die.) 03:42, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
  4. QuiGonJinnBe mindful of the Living Force...Quigonheadshot 02:45, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
  5. JethLordMaster (Talk) 03:37, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
  6. Inqvote Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 01:27, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
  7. ACvote Whoops. Graestan(Talk) 03:45, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Object

  1. IFYLOFD:
    • "Jedi Master Atris, who was to attend the conclave, leaked knowledge of the meeting, and as a result, the planet was rendered lifeless by Darth Nihilus who was drawn there from the Outer Rim, unable to ignore the chance to consume the power profusion that the planet represented with some of the most powerful Masters of the Jedi Order assembled on a world as rich in the Force as the Miraluka's." Hoo-ey, that's a long sentence. Split it up.
      • Done. * Cylka * 10:52, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
    • "He made her see the galaxy as her people never could, sentients on other planets disconnected from themselves, insensitive to the Force, and she wished to die." What does this sentence mean? Clarify.
      • Hopefully clarified. * Cylka * 10:52, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Add a little info on the Exile's journey.
      • Added more info. * Cylka * 09:20, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
    • "As they were taken aback by the Sith Lord's devastating powers, the Exile realized Visas was his link to that place," What place?
      • Identified. * Cylka * 10:52, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
  2. In the BtS, the possible origin of Marr's name is sourced with KotOR II. How is that possible? I doubt the KotOR II would tell the root of her name, in an OOU language no less.
      • Ugh.. how'd I miss that? Done. * Cylka * 10:52, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
    • The BtS is too random and is almost like a trivia section. Try to link some of the facts together.
      • Hopefully linked.* Cylka * 17:30, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Good job. IFYLOFD (And now, young Skywalker, you will die.) 03:30, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
      • Thanks! :-) * Cylka * 10:52, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
  3. SoresuMakashi
    • insensitive to the Force, and she wished to die. How does wishing to die have anything to do with the earlier stuff? Also, do you mean see in a literal or figuartive sense? Please clarify.
      • Hopefully clarified. * Cylka * 10:52, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
    • This vision severely damaged her Force Sight. What vision? Do you mean the He made her see the galaxy as her people never could bit? The way you write it that sentence does not make it sound like she was having a vision. Similar to my last objection. Clarify/reword.
      • Redone. * Cylka * 10:52, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
    • to the surprise and displeasure of certain crew members. Who in particular?
    • Her heart would finally be put to rest when the time came to accompany the Exile to the flagship of her former master, the Ravager, for their final confrontation. This conflicts with a later statement. Visas took some time to visit her old meditation chamber one last time, finally coming to terms with the destruction of Katarr.
    • Remove the speculation about her being thoughtful, cautious and deliberating in the P&T. Do, however, keep the commitment bit and remove the probably, as this is proven when she fully devotes herself to helping the Exile stop Nihilus.
      • Done. * Cylka * 10:52, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Not bad. SoresuMakashi(Everything I tell you is a lie) 06:12, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
  4. Who else but NaruHina?
    • The romance section could be expanded. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 13:11, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
      • Expanded.* Cylka * 17:30, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
        • I would say "So beautiful" but I never liked the male romance in kotor2. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 00:46, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
    • In the cut content section, try and merge the cut stuff into sectional paragraphs, not just a list.
      • Paragraphed.* Cylka * 17:30, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
    • "Visas infiltrated the Ebon Hawk and engaged the Exile in lightsaber combat—only to be defeated, wounded, and have her lightsaber broken. This show of strength prompted Visas to abandon Nihilus and pledge her life to the Exile, who took the now unconscious woman to the medical bay instead of ending her life. This act of mercy was met by surprise from companion and pilot of the Ebon Hawk, Atton Rand..." Wait...what act of mercy? You should put in that she pleaded for the Exile to kill her.
      • Added it in and reworded a bit. * Cylka * 09:20, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
    • "Approximately a year later," This needs a source.
      • Changed the dates all together since Chronicles of the Old Republic was the only source I could find with a date. I was going by other member's sourcing. We may have a bit of a problem with the dating of the Jedi Conclave of Katarr and Devastation of Katarr. * Cylka * 09:20, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
        • The policy seems to be "While the comic does not specify an exact date for the events in the story, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords gives the date 3,952 BBY as the date of the Jedi Conclave on Katarr, which is considered responsible for the devastation of Katarr." Don't just source it to KotOR2, phrase it so its a shortening of this. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 23:39, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
          • But where does TSL give this date? I was saying Chronicles is the only source I could find with a date so other articles might have to be changed. I don't have The New Essential Chronology so I can't check the date there. Neither Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force or Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide have the date. 3,952 BBY isn't in the dialog files and I can't find any dialog in the game that says Well one year ago there was a Concvlave on Katarr....
            • I have no idea. Do the dlg files cover written things too? It may have just been in some database or an item somewhere. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 00:21, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
              • Don't know. But if I can't find the date in TSL, then I don't want to source to TSL. I would rather leave the date sourced to something that actually gives me a date. I'll try to see if anyone has ever actually seen the date in TSL. * Cylka * 01:00, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
                • It would probably just say "About a year ago" rather than give an actual date.
                  • I think I've gotten a bit confused now as to which date you're objecting to. 3,951 BBY has been established as the year the Exile came back, so that's the year Visas heard her. Between 3,953 BBY and 3,951 BBY are the only dates I can source for certain as to the Destruction of Katarr. I would really appreciate it if you could clarify this for me. Thanks. * Cylka * 11:17, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
                    • I'm saying that the characters would probably say something like "About a year ago[...]Katarr was destroyed." Initially, I was objecting to the use of an unsourced "approximtely one year." Now I'm objecting as to what happened in 3,953 BBY that makes it impossible for Katarr to have been destroyed. Also, I'm sure I read it somewhere in the NEC about Katarr but it seems to have dissappeared. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 00:36, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
                      • I asked Drewton to look in The NEC for me and he found nothing there nor in the timeline for the Guide to the Force. As for 3,953 BBY, Wookieepedia has nothing for that date. But anyways, I changed the date back to 3,952 BBY, even though I can't verify it it, because eveyone believes this is the right date. Both dates in the article are sourced now. * Cylka * 12:58, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Nothing but the character's name a/o alias's first appearance should be bolded, check the P&T.
      • Think I fixed this. * Cylka * 09:20, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
        • Oh, sorry, I meant the P&A, nothing in that should be bolded. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 23:58, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
          • Think I fixed it.* Cylka * 17:30, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
    • The article needs to be surced by statement, not by paragraph, per the MoS or was it the sourcing guide....either of those.
      • Fixed some of the refs. The others I left at the end of the paragraphs since all statements came from one source. At least thats how I think that Wookieepedia:Sourcing explained it. * Cylka * 09:20, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
        • No, they must be sourced by statement such as "she felt," "Commonly known as," quotes, etc. Many of these paragraphs just need sources for things like that. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 23:58, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
          • Think I got them all.* Cylka * 17:30, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
            • Looks good NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 23:39, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
              • Hey NH. I changed the sourcing per Toprawa. I figured that since he is AC I should go with his recommendation. * Cylka * 03:26, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
    • "Jedi's object movement power" This either needs a source or should just be call Telekinesis. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 00:17, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
      • Sourced.* Cylka * 17:30, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
        • Not sourced. You must source it directly (Right after the word "power) that it is commonly known as "Jedi's object movement power." Currently, it only sources that is is also known as Telekinesis. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 23:39, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
          • Done. * Cylka * 00:07, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
            • That has to be the second stupidest name I've ever heard in Star Wars. The first being Soka (Which is in everything) Are you sure its in the JvS? NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 00:21, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
              • Pg. 69 JvS. It wasn't an official name, just commonly known as. * Cylka * 01:00, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Devestation on Katarr needs to be linked to in the body. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 23:39, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
      • Devastation of Katarr is linked to in life of the planet in the last sentence in the first paragraph He consumed the life of the planet, sparing naught, aside from Visas. * Cylka * 00:07, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
        • The intro and body are not the same, so technically, that is not the first paragraph of the body. Now that I look at it, all of the things in the intro must be linked to in the bio and subsequent sections as well as in the intro. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 00:21, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
          • Brainfart NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 00:33, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
            • Fixed all the links. * Cylka * 04:49, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Confucious say: "Good luck with your awticle." NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 13:11, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
      • Thanks! * Cylka * 09:20, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
        • Thanks for the edits, Btw. * Cylka * 01:00, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
  5. Toprawa:
    • Cylka, your article looks good so far from a cursory glance. Unfortunately, the sourcing-by-sentence that one objector has you doing is incorrect. This is not how Wookieepedia articles are to be sourced. For example, the first paragraph of the second bio section, beginning, "Visas infiltrated the Ebon Hawk," has five reference notes all referencing the same source. This is unnecessarily redundant. If that paragraph is all sourced to a single item, just leave a single reference note at the end of the paragraph. Individual sentences only need to be sourced if there are multiple references made in a single paragraph. Toprawa and Ralltiir 01:09, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
      • I fixed up the sourcing. The ones I was unsure of was when there was one sentence from a different source in a paragraph. I sourced each sentence individually before the one with the different source, then I just added the reference note at the end of the paragraph since the rest of the sentences were from the same source. I'm not sure if that was right. * Cylka * 02:58, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
        • You still have numerous instances of this redundant referencing throughout. That one paragraph was just a single example.
          • Addressed
    • In the infobox, please make sure no text follows a reference tag without sourcing of its own. There are handful of parenthetical bits that follow a refnote. They should be within each refnote.
      • Addressed
    • Also, punctuation is always to precede refnotes. You have at least one instance of punctuation following a refnote in the infobox, if not more in the article. Toprawa and Ralltiir 16:44, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
  6. QuiGon
    • I think you should use the {{GameLS}} template in her biography, since it is only one of possible ways of completing the game. You can order her to kill herself or you can forbid her to go to the meditation chambers. There are many choices.
      • That was a good catch. I actually ended up adding the {{GameLSmechanics}} template since you didn't have to learn Force Sight from her or allow her to go to her meditation chamber, etc.
    • Also, I think the introduction is a little short.
      • Expanded the introduction a bit more.
    • Other than that, good job. QuiGonJinnBe mindful of the Living Force...Quigonheadshot 19:54, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
  7. From the scratchpad of Atarumaster88
    • There appears to be a typo in the P&T quote, or at least a missing word.
      • Fixed I believe. The whole quote was I will return to you... but please, do not harm her... do not what you did to me... I beg you. I added in brackets.
        • See, IMO, the missing word is in "do not what you did to me." Is it not "do not do what you did to me", or is Marr missing the word in-game also? Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 15:24, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
          • Taken right from the game dialog file Str Refs 100857 & 100859. Its worded the same when the Exile is male. She always did have a strange way of talking in the game. :-)
    • "Visas Marr's name most likely originates from the Latin word visus (meaning "sight"),[8] and the english verb mar (meaning "damage" or "impair" This is Original Research. Unless someone gives you a source for this, as worded, it's original research. See this link for a way to better phrase such ideas.
      • Reworded. I believe its fixed. If not, I'll just get rid of it.
    • "a most rare and precious gift" blatant POV.
      • Gone.
    • "Following the Destruction of Malachor V, she parted ways with the Exile and returned to Katarr" Unless this isn't from KotOR II, this is only according to a vision and should be appropriately labeled as such. (intro)
      • Labeled as Darth Traya's prediction.
    • I have a bad feeling about this article. Not sure why, but something feels sketchy about it. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 18:05, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
      • Um... I'm not really sure what to make of this. Could you explain it a bit more. Cylka-talk- 19:21, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
  8. From the full-fledged desk of Atarumaster88
    • "lure the enemy into the open" Context needed on who this enemy is.
    • "Taken aboard Nihilus's ship, she awoke to find that although she had been healed of her physical injuries, the flesh where her eyes would have been was brutally removed." This just doesn't make sense to me. How can she be healed and wounded at the same time? Especially since her original injuries weren't described as particularly physical.
    • "She came to believe that Nihilus fed upon its ugliness and left silence; was bringing stillness and order to where there was chaos." Please clarify.
      • The issue here is that the phrase after the semicolon is a fragment. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 14:19, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
        • Fixed, I believe.
    • "Visas is made to see." This image caption is vague at best. Please rework.
    • There are quotes throughout the prose. Please remove them.
      • Check your loading ramps and "breed difficulties." Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 14:19, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
        • Gone.
    • "It is unknown as to which of these telekinetic forces Visas had mastered" I don't like this. Better to say nothing about the topic than make one of these statements, IMO.
      • Better, but you probably are missing a reference now. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 14:19, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
        • Ref added
    • "replying that exile should have taught "restraint and discipline in the ways of the flesh." More quotes in prose here, but I believe there's also a "been" missing.
    • Shouldn't the fight with Nihilus be linked to Duel on the Ravager, and not the Darth Nihilus article?
      • I believe this is addressed in the next objection.
    • This incorrect link is still there, under Cut Content. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 14:19, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
      • Article doesn't exist. I gave the article the name Skirmish aboard the Ravager since the battle included Canderous Ordo, the Exile, Visas and many Mandalorians.
        • Never mind. I found some old Senate Hall threads that indicated that the relative article is actually Battle of Telos. Sorry about that; I changed it back to not having a link. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 01:27, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
    • Please order images in standard left-right order.
    • Have a Super Terrific Friendly Un-frustrating day. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 15:24, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
      • I've hopefully resolved these issues. JethLordMaster (Talk) 03:45, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
        • Almost there. ;) Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 14:19, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
          • Thanks for the spell-checks and edits. Foreign writers with English plug-ins aren't always the best solution. Cylka-talk- 21:28, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
  9. From Graestan the Mighty:
    • Intro is in need of expansion, explaining in brief detail all the subjects mentioned. Avoid mentions of things like "Lost Jedi Masters" and "Dark Wars," instead perhaps pipelinking to them and using terms understood by the uninitiated.
      • Expanded and rephrased.
    • State more directly her species, gender, and homeworld at the beginning of the bio.
      • Done.
    • "First Jedi Purge" needs a little context.
      • Contextified.
    • First names should be avoided as much as possible, in keeping with precedent and encyclopedic tone.
      • Fixed, I believe.
    • The Exile needs a bit of context at her first mention in the bio.
      • Done.
    • Ebon Hawk needs context.
      • Contextified.
    • This is a bit Captain Ric: "the implication being that this was not the first time that Visas would be recovering from serious trauma."
      • Gone.
    • Again, the "Dark Wars" reference in the bio is very left-field, and probably could use a pipelink instead of being directly referred to.
      • Done.
    • The Destruction of Malachor V needs context.
      • I believe it's contextified.
    • "It has also been said" in the P&A sounds OOU. Did an IU author mention this? Please be more specific. Similarly, "is believed" in the same sentence is present tense. Is that OOU?
      • Hopefully cleared up.
    • Not so sure name origins can be alluded to without a licensed source to point at.
      • In his objections, Ataru pointed me towards this link to make it work. However, if you feel that it shouldn't be there, I can get rid of it.
    • Tense needs straightening out in the BtS. Jumps from past to present to past.
      • Fixed.
    • Graestan(Talk) 06:11, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
      • Thanks for all of your help! :-) Cylka-talk- 10:42, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
      • The rest of the objections have been addressed. Cylka-talk- 13:51, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Comments Wait a sec, Toprawa, you told me that it was supposed to be by the quote, feeling, etc. back when I was sourcing everything for kotor. Though I agree the sourcing may have been a bit to often; it is nessisary to source the opinions of the characters and quotes, redundant or not. --That One Objector NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 03:42, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

  • I never instructed you to source by sentence, Naru. I'm sorry you interpreted whatever it is I apparently said to you incorrectly. Additionally, I regret you took my objection wording in an insulting manner. Perhaps if you substitute "that one objector" for "which one objector," you might understand. Toprawa and Ralltiir 04:22, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Right. And I didn't say sentence by sentence either. I said by "by statement such as "she felt," "Commonly known as," quotes, etc." NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 05:48, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Approved as a Good article by AgriCorps 04:11, 21 January 2009 (UTC)