Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Unidentified stormtrooper commander (Tantive IV)

< Wookieepedia:Good article nominations
The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Unidentified stormtrooper commander (Tantive IV)

  • Nominated by: Darth Morrt 13:37, October 18, 2010 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments: He is the third commander of the battle aboard Tantive IV, besides Praji and Jir.

(3 ACs/3 Users/6 Total)

Support

  1. What a fantastic character to GAN. Keep it up. Menkooroo 00:24, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
  2. Hanzo Hasashi 18:37, December 26, 2010 (UTC)
  3. ACvote Please double-check the revision I made to the Bts; I just want to make sure that that's what you meant, as it wasn't clear when I read it. Feel free to adjust it if my revision is factually incorrect. CC7567 (talk) 01:18, January 15, 2011 (UTC)
  4. ACvote Chack Jadson (Talk) 16:55, January 29, 2011 (UTC)
  5. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:22, February 12, 2011 (UTC)
  6. ACvote Good job. Well-researched. Toprawa and Ralltiir 17:34, February 16, 2011 (UTC)

Object

Xd1358
  • Tense shifting in the bio image caption.
  • More to come later. 1358 (Talk) 19:18, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • I'm not quite sure ANH is a source for 0 BBY.
    • Why not? The battle of Yavin happened at the end of the film. Nothing indicate that the beginning of the film is more than a year earlier than battle. Darth Morrt 00:45, January 20, 2011 (UTC)
  • "…and third, arguing with Vader about Senator Organa, an act that is performed by Daine Jir." That doesn't make any sense. You mean the act was performed by Jir in the film?
    • I am trying to say that a "Commander" can be heard in three scenes: first, in place Praji; second, in place of the Unidentified Stormtrooper Commander; and third, in place of Daine Jir. The "Commander" in the radio drama is composed of three persons. Darth Morrt 00:45, January 20, 2011 (UTC)
  • Two references use "chapter <number here>", while one uses "chapter <roman number here>". Please be consistent. 1358 (Talk) 18:54, January 19, 2011 (UTC)
    • My copy of the ANH novel uses roman numbers, while the most others use arabic numerals. IMO, the numbers should be the same kind as in the source. The Essential Guide to the Force uses both roman and arabic numerals, and in this book page ix and page 9 are two different pages of the book. Darth Morrt 00:45, January 20, 2011 (UTC)
      • I've changed my mind and made it consistent. Darth Morrt 11:08, January 25, 2011 (UTC)
Hey there, Delilah
  • In the intro: "Human male officer" reads kinda oddly. Maybe "Human male" would be better placed before "stormtrooper commander?"
  • I'd suggest removing "Since interrogating Captain Raymus Antilles was inconclusive" from the intro. It kinda seems like a tangent, and a shorter intro wouldn't hurt for such a short article.
  • The intro calls Leia a princess, and the body a senator. Probably not a big deal, but can you pick one and use it for both?
  • "when the Dark Lord arrived to the prisoners." Should something be there after "to?"
  • Tantive IV and "The" Tantive IV are both used throughout the article. The latter seems to be correct; consistitize, baby!
  • "The Sith Lord was interrogating Antilles, who denied the accusations and died by Vader's hand." What accusations?
  • Food for thought: The film doesn't actually contradict the fact that commander has a scar on his face, does it?
    • That depends on the meaning of 'recent'. I thought it happened on the Tantive IV, and since his helmet is intact, nothing penetrated it. Should I assume, that he has a scar from an earlier battle? Darth Morrt 11:10, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
      • "Recent" is a pretty loose term. If the bio mentioned that he acquired a scar from an energy beam before it went into the Battle of Tatooine stuff, I think it would be OK.
  • Can you stick some references immediately after "Several adaptations of A New Hope suggest that the Commander and Daine Jir were the same person," in order to indicate which adaptations you're talking about? Also, maybe it's worth noting just how they suggest that?
    • Done. Darth Morrt 22:01, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
      • Much better! I'm just a little confused as to what "in the role of the unidentified commander and of Commandr Jir" means. Menkooroo 05:06, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
        • I was trying to say is the following: "In the film's radio drama, a character addressed as Commander can be heard [in three scenes, first] aboard the Devastator hailing the Tantive IV, [second] in the role [or 'scene' is the correct word?] of the unidentified commander and [third in the role] of Commander Jir, suggesting that these three are the same person." Should I reword the sentence and mention what he is doing in these scenes? Darth Morrt 06:12, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
          • Yes! That makes perfect sense. Definitely clarify that. Menkooroo 06:30, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
            • Done. Darth Morrt 11:58, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
              • Hey, sorry this took so long. OK... I don't think an explanation is necessary for this character being a different character than Daine Jir. That much is clear from the film itself. I think this part of the bts is still kinda confusing and could be reduced. This sentence is good: "In the third episode of the film's radio drama, a character addressed as Commander can be heard in three scenes, first aboard the Devastator hailing the Tantive IV, second aboard the Tantive IV presenting Antilles to Vader and reporting on the Death Star plans, and third arguing with Vader about Senator Organa." But the third part should maybe be reworded to say "and is additionally used for the character of Daine Jir." Then you could just finish off the bts with "However, the The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader identifies the commander hailing the Tantive IV as Commander Praji.[12]" I think that's all you really need, since the film itself is pretty clear that this stormtrooper commander and Daine Jir are different characters. Whaddya think? Menkooroo 17:35, December 18, 2010 (UTC)
                • Actually, the point of the whole section is to prove that the commander in the drama who captures Antilles is the Unidentified Stormtrooper Commander. Maybe I am overacting and this section is not needed to the article. The same voice plays the role of a commander in three scenes. Later, the commander in two scenes is identified by other sources as Praji and Jir. More later, the Manga reveals that the one who captures Antilles cannot be Praji or Jir. That's what I was trying to say. The film is clear, but the radio drama is not. I reworded the section. Darth Morrt 20:06, December 21, 2010 (UTC)
                  • Looks good! I got it now. :D Menkooroo 00:24, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
  • The info from the image caption in "Behind the scenes" isn't mentioned in the article. Can you discuss how the manga scene was different in the bts?
    • It is mentioned in the body as "The Commander departed to consult with one of the other commanders." This scene is one of the few that appear only in the manga. Darth Morrt 11:10, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
  • That's all! Keep writing up these minor ANH Imperials. I loves it. Menkooroo 05:41, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
    • Thanks for the review. I will recheck the sources before expanding the Bts. I have plans for a half dozen unidentiifed trooper/officer/commander from ANH, and maybe Praji will be my first FAN. Darth Morrt 11:10, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
      • Sounds good. Menkooroo 15:19, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
Toprawa
  • If the film script is presented in the ANH art book, as you seem to suggest on some of your other nominations, that needs to be added to the Sources list. Toprawa and Ralltiir 21:14, January 31, 2011 (UTC)
  • This is kind of nitpicky, but the film is not necessarily an accurate source in the infobox for the character being male, other than his filtered voice through his helmet, which is flimsy evidence at best. I'm sure some other source refers to him as "he" or something that literally gives us indication of his gender. See if you can't find one.
    • Done.
  • Is there any compelling, specific reason we refer to this as the pipelinked "501st elite legion" and not just "501st Legion," it's formal name? "the Imperial Stormtrooper Corps's 501st elite legion"
    • It was just to add some context. I've changed it to the formal name.
      • In that case, I've tweaked it to read "elite 501st Legion," to avoid including the description word in the pipelink. Toprawa and Ralltiir 00:21, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
  • Can you verify that the capturing of the Tantive IV is literally called the "Battle of Tatooine?" If not, we should avoid capitalizing "battle" as a formal title. The battle article itself gives no real indication either way: "during the Battle of Tatooine" Toprawa and Ralltiir 19:25, February 3, 2011 (UTC)
  • Can we supplement this with some kind of general timing? Something as simple as, for example, "At some point he acquired...": "He acquired a facial scar from an energy beam that penetrated the shielding of his helmet."
  • Also, in that same sentence, would it be appropriate to pipelink Laser into "energy beam"? Toprawa and Ralltiir 00:21, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
  • The dual use of "Commander" and "commander" here just doesn't read well. See if you can tweak this to remove the repetition: "the Commander led the first wave of 501st Legion stormtroopers aboard the vessel as the group's assault commander."
    • Done.
  • Please convince me why this sentence is necessary, or even relevant, to the subject of this article: "Commanders Praji and Jir also participated in the assault and accompanied Vader in the second wave." Toprawa and Ralltiir 03:04, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
    • At first, I wasn't sure whether the stormtrooper commander is not Praji or Jir in armor. I think it is good the make it clear, that there were two other commanders in the battle. Also, the later arrival of Praji and Jir proves that neither of them captured Antilles, as stated in the BTS. Darth Morrt 03:48, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
  • After looking at the novel's description of the character's facial scar, it's clear we have a much more specific timeline placement than simply the previously added "At some point." The article could safely place this to, for example, "Sometime around 0 BBY," or however you want to word it. Toprawa and Ralltiir 19:37, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
  • I have no problem with referring to the character as the "Assault Commander," assuming that's an actual canonical title, but I feel the article should do a better job of introducing him by this title earlier in the article. The article currently drops in this title rather randomly and the reader is just supposed to understand that this is our character. See what you can do about this: "After consulting with one of the other commanders, the Assault Commander quickly returned to Vader," Toprawa and Ralltiir 19:28, February 7, 2011 (UTC)
    • The novel Death Star calls him both assault commander and assault leader. Now, I call him Assault Commander in every sentence related to the battle of Tatooine. I changed a portion of your recent copy-edit in the first sentence of the P/T. I am not sure that my edit is correct, so here is the situation: Antilles was captured without a weapon, since he gave his blaster to Leia earlier. The Assault Commander gave him a blow and laughed that Antilles didn't have the guts to fight, since he is unarmed. Darth Morrt 14:08, February 10, 2011 (UTC)
      • I'll respond to the P/T bit after the first issue here is resolved. You're mistaking these two descriptions as formal titles. The Death Star novel reads that the character is "An assault commander" and also "the assault leader." These are not formal military ranks, and so should not be capitalized as the article currently treats them, which is the point I'm trying to get at with my objection. Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:13, February 10, 2011 (UTC)
        • Ok, everything looks good, and the P/T is fine. I made some tweaks throughout for grammar and readability. I've also added a quote to the P/T, which I sourced to the radio drama script book. Please look over that and make sure it syncs up with the actual radio drama and make any changes as necessary. If both versions are identical, I would suggest changing that quote's sourcing to the radio drama. I've also moved the biography image up a paragraph, which looks better on my screen resolution, but feel free to alter that to your liking. Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:21, February 11, 2011 (UTC)
          • The drama's version was a bit different. Changed and sourced to the drama. Darth Morrt 14:18, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
  • I find it kind of impossible, as the article reads, that this character is simultaneously reporting to Vader aboard the Devastator that the Tantive IV's locks are being breached while at the same time he's "leading the first wave" of the assault. That just doesn't make any sense. The character can't be in two places at once. I don't see how you can possibly be reconciling this information from Battlefront II to correspond to this character. Perhaps you can explain: "this individual led the first wave of 501st Legion stormtroopers aboard the vessel" Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:13, February 10, 2011 (UTC)
    • Fixed amd reworded. BF ref was just for sourcing the 501st. Dropped mentions of waves, since we don't know how many waves there were. Darth Morrt 04:07, February 11, 2011 (UTC)
  • You've checked the ANH junior novel for this guy? Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:21, February 11, 2011 (UTC)
    • Checked. Nothing new. Darth Morrt 14:18, February 16, 2011 (UTC)

Comments

Approved as a Good article by AgriCorps 17:34, February 16, 2011 (UTC)


  • According to Battlefront 2, every trooper of the 501st is Jango-clone. Should I assume, that this commander was also a clone? Commander Jir is not a clone either. Darth Morrt 00:31, October 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • I would say this commander should be a Jango Fett clone too. Praji and Jir were just stormtrooper officers, whereas this character is actually a trooper. Also, not related to the article, just out of curiosity, do the Star Wars radio drama or the NPR dramatization contain contradictions with the movie? I know the ESB radio drama does, with Vader's line as he is strangling Ozzel being different from the movie. Hanzo Hasashi 20:09, December 12, 2010 (UTC)
    • IMO, Praji and Jir were about the same rank as this commander, they just weren't there for fighting hence they didn't wear armor. And Jir was a Lieutenant shortly before, so I think that only troopers under the rank of lieutenant are safe to assume being Fett clone. I've heard/read only parts of the radio drama, but no serious contradictions in the story up to now. However, there are a lot of slightly different lines, because a radio drama must introduce new scenes, new characters and sometimes what's happening. For example, when Leia shoots the Trooper, an other one says "look out, she is armed", else the audience wouldn't know who is shooting. Darth Morrt 03:20, December 13, 2010 (UTC)