Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Unidentified mustachioed individual

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Unidentified mustachioed individual

  • Nominated by: Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 03:37, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments: Thanks to Kilson for a pre-nom review of this article.

(3 ACs/3 Users/6 Total)

Support

  1. ACvote It was my pleasure. Kilson(Let's have a chat) 03:50, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
  2. Assuming you've gotten all the sources and appearances listed for this character. Hanzo Hasashi 17:06, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
  3. Inqvote As usual, your work ethic and desire to improve the article in any way possible are awesome. Good show! Menkooroo 14:50, June 12, 2011 (UTC)
  4. GTQ(Problems?) 02:56, June 13, 2011 (UTC)
  5. Don't you like my mustache? ~SavageBOB sig 22:36, June 13, 2011 (UTC)
  6. ACvote Cavalier OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 12:22, July 12, 2011 (UTC)

Object

Gold
  • Where in Cantina Roll-call does it say that all of those characters sat together? Did you mean to source that statement to this picture?
    • Wow! I didn't know about this picture. Man, that changes a lot of things. Could someone upload this picutre and also a close up shot on the guy's face? It would be greatly appreciate since I will be trying to take care of some of the other objections.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 12:24, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
      • I can upload it for ya if you want. Just to confirm: You want the whole thing and a closeup of the mustachioed face?
      • Also, be careful --- you've now sourced most of the first paragraph, including the part about Luke and Obi-Wan entering the cantina, to the Clone Cadets episode guide. It'll need to still be source to ANH. I think you can source the statement about who he was sitting with to the episode guide rather than Cantina Roll-call, which doesn't seem to say anything about who was sitting with who. If you're worried about sourcing their names, it's not really necessary --- sourcing the source that contains the picture is fine. Like, if Darth Vader appeared in a comic issue but wasn't named, you wouldn't have to source anything else to say that he was Darth Vader.
        • I changed it now. The reason I am sourcing with Cantina Roll-call is because it identifies the species, gender, and names of the characters. And yes I want both pictures, one for the body of the article and one (the close-up) for the infobox.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 15:04, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
          • I got the main image, but could you still get a closeup of his face for the infobox. Thank you.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 23:21, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
  • Another (Picture only) for the sources section for ya: That same picture appears in Hem Dazon's CSWE entry (Volume I).
  • Can you give context on Luke and Ben in the intro (and additionally on Luke in the body)? Yes, context is needed on every character. :)
  • Can you mention that the boarding of the Tantive IV took place above Tatooine? Otherwise it just seems like a tangent.
  • How is this?--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 12:34, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
  • The BTS shifts from present to past tense in the last sentence.
    • Fixed--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 12:24, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
      • There's still some inconsistency (he is seated is present tense). I think present might actually be your best bet throughout. Give it a try.
  • Two objections that challenge basic assumptions about this character that have been made since the article was created, but...
    • Is his skin really gold? It sure doesn't look gold in the picture here, which is a much better and clearer photo. File:Gold-skin.jpg seems to just be a poor-quality picture with really bad lighting, as Pons Limbic's skin looks pretty metallic and gold in it as well.
      • Yeah, you're right, what color would you suggest I call his skin now.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 12:24, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
        • Kinda looks like Trinto Duaba with a moustache. Maybe gray?
          • I think it is more like tan color, so that is what I added. But if you disagree I will change it to gray.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 15:04, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
    • Also, is there any reason to believe and definitively state that this individual of an unknown species is a man? We know that Human males generally only have moustaches, but can we make that assumption about a totally unknown species? I don't think the duck test applies here. Menkooroo 06:48, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
      • Well I guess he looks like a male to me, but I guess you can never be sure, if I change this and the part about gold skin what should the article be named?--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 12:24, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
        • Maybe "Unidentified mustachioed Humanoid (Chalmun's Spaceport Cantina)" ?
          • I am moving the page.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 15:04, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
            • For what it's worth, in real life there are women with facial hair, such as the bearded women in circus freak shows. Hanzo Hasashi 03:23, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
  • Also: It looks like this guy is visible in the background of a common picture of Bom Vindin. I think you'll have to (Picture only) any source that that photo appears in. Right off the bat, I can tell you that it's in SWInsider "The Beastmaster!" — Star Wars Insider 126 and The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, Vol. III, p. Vindin, Bom, but it's probably worth checking out to see if it's in Star Wars: Behind the Magic, Swccglogolg Star Wars Customizable Card Game — A New Hope Limited Card: Advosze (backup link), The Official Star Wars Fact File 15 German Edition - VIM1-2, Bom Vimdim, The Official Star Wars Fact File 22 CAN6, Mos Eisley Cantina Characters, and Star Wars: The Official Starships & Vehicles Collection 1, all of which are listed as Sources in Vindin's article.
    • Yeah, could someone check these for me, seeing as how I do not have any of these sources. IT would be greatly appreciated.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 12:24, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
      • User:Borsk Fey'lya is the guy to ask for Fact Files. User:Winchester 327 has Behind the Magic and Star Wars: The Official Starships & Vehicles Collection 1. They're both friendly guys; if you ask them on their talk pages, they'll no doubt help you out. The ccg card is here, and it looks like our mustachioed friend was basically airbrushed out of the background, so I don't think you need to include it.
      • Also, thanks for being so cool about these objections. Movie characters --- especially ones from memorable scenes like the cantina scene --- are generally more difficult to do than you might think, if only in terms of source hunting. With that said, the quality of the article won't be diminished if a few possible pictures of Bom Vindin are missing from the Sources section, so I'll be happy to strike this objection as soon as you make the inquiries, provided that you eventually add the Sources if they end up being applicable. Menkooroo 13:58, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
        • Sorry to butt in but, Exiledjedi, keep in mind that it's the nominator's responsibility to check for all sources prior to nomination. Since this gold-skinned man dates back to 1977, it might take a while to find sources, but Menkooroo was nice enough to list a few for you. Don't always trust any leftover things that what was once in the article before you expanded it; the sources within the old version of the article might have been incomplete. JangFett (Talk) 14:04, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
          • No I am the one who should be sorry, I will try to do better next time.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 15:04, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
            • I left messages about the other sources on the suggested users' talk pages.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 15:40, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
              • Borsk said that there was not anything he could find on the mustached man in the Fact files. He also said, "Leland Chee is "convinced it's Trinto Duaba with a moustache." [1]" What should I do about this since the link goes to the annoying pit droid?--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 18:39, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
                • Huh. The forums are already gone. Wellll... shit. Menkooroo 00:00, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
                  • Tm T archived the post here. Phew. Dammit, Tm is awesome. Like, really awesome. Menkooroo 00:29, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
  • Inside the Worlds of the Original Trilogy includes a (sketched) picture of the table that this guy is sitting at. If he's there, he can only be seen from the back, but I think we can probably say that he's there. I have a scan of that page, so e-mail me at gradualferguson@hotmail.com and I can send it to you if you want. Menkooroo 07:05, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
  • The intro says that Luke's a moisture farmer, while the bio asserts that he's a former moisture farmer. Which is it?
  • The intro's nearly as long as the bio. Keep in mind that the intro should only give a summary of the most basic information and should be even more focused on the article's subject than the bio. The mention of the droids and the listing of aliens that this guy is sitting with probably aren't all that necessary for the intro.
    • I removed the part about the droids, but I left the part about who this individual was sitting with, so that the intro was more than one sentence.
  • Here's Leland's post about how he believes that the character uses Trinto's mask but with a mustache on it. Prime bts material.
    • I think I got it right.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 12:34, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
      • No wait, it isn't right, what am I doing wrong with this?--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 12:38, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
        • Cite_web is a bit tricky. You actually got everything perfect, save for "url=" which was missing in front of the URL. I added it in for ya.
  • Also, here's the image you wanted for the infobox. Menkooroo 05:45, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
    • Thank you, now I can stop seeing that awful previous picture.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 12:34, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
  • As Leland wasn't around in 1997 and doesn't seem 100% confident about his answer, I think it might be best to indicate that he believes the mask to be the same as Trinto's. You could also lead the bts with a quote taken from Leland's post. Quotes are fun! :) Menkooroo 13:05, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
  • You have the fact that their table was close to the cantina's entrance sourced to the Clone Cadets episode guide and Cantina Roll-Call --- do either of those sources indicate as such, or should Inside the Worlds be sourced here?
  • I understand the desire for variation, but the jumping around between "the individual," "the person," and "the humanoid" is a bit jolting. It might be easier on the reader if you pick something unique to call the character, such as "the mustachioed humanoid," and stick with that throughout.
    • I changed it to where I only use humanoid and mustachioed humanoid. I figured a little variation is still good. I think I took care of all of the instances of person and individual.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 18:50, June 11, 2011 (UTC)
  • In the BTS: "This individual of an unknown species made its first appearance..." Using "its" to refer to a character isn't really correct. Probably best to reword it so as to avoid the pronoun, like, "this individual first appeared" or something. Menkooroo 16:54, June 11, 2011 (UTC)
  • OK! And now for my absolutely, honest-to-Waru, final objection: SWInsider "The Beastmaster!" — Star Wars Insider 126 states that the masks used for the supplemental shooting of the cantina scene were slip-on rubber masks designed by Rick Baker. It doesn't explicitly state that Baker did the mustachioed character's mask, but it does include a picture of Rick, Phil Tippet, and a few others posing with a whole bunch of masks—Trinto's mask is there, but, wouldn't you know it, another creature's hand is obscuring his mouth and upper lip. :P Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that you could add a sentence to the bts noting that the masks designed for the supplemental shoot were slip-on rubber masks designed by Rick Baker. Don't explicitly state that he designed this guy's mask, though. Does that make sense? Menkooroo 13:36, June 12, 2011 (UTC)
    • How is this?--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 14:42, June 12, 2011 (UTC)
      • Perfect! Just be careful not to link to in-universe things when discussing out-of-universe things (ie, rubber). Menkooroo 14:48, June 12, 2011 (UTC)
Savaged…
  • Isn't this guy Trinto Duaba? The image from the Clone Cadets episode guide seems to be of Duaba with his head back, and the "mustache" is just shadow on his upper lip, as his mouth appears to be open. ~SavageBOB sig 22:13, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
    • I do not think so, here is Duaba:

TrintoDuaba-Promo

    • And here is this individual:

VindinDazonLimbicTable

  • I do not find them very similar at all.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 23:06, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
    • It's the same guy. It's just that the mask is tilted back. Look at the patterns of dark and light on his face; they are identical. How do you find them dissimilar? ~SavageBOB sig 00:00, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
      • For one thing, Trinto's eyes are more sunken, Trinto's nose is sloped downwards more, Trinto's chin is more pointed.
      • And after showing the picture at full size:

VindinDazonLimbicTable.jpg

      • It becomes clear that the individual does have a mustache, and he has hair poking out from under his hood where Trinto is bald. The only thing I see about them that they have in common is the hoods they wear and their cheekbones.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 00:19, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
        • Leland is convinced it's the same mask, but with a moustache. Seems to indicate that it's a different character. Isn't Trinto sitting at a different table, anyway? Menkooroo 00:29, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
          • I think I agree with him. Things become murky due to the Stennes's ability to shapeshift, but if Leland thinks it's a separate character, I'm cool with that. Once the link to his message is sorted out, I'm cool I guess. ~SavageBOB sig 00:32, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
  • I just checked The Making of Star Wars: The Definitive Story Behind the Original Film, and he is not pictured there. He is pictured in Star Wars: Chronicles, p. 76. He's at a table with Bom Vimdin, Brainiac, and an Arcona (Hem Dazon?).
  • You should add to BTS that he was part of supplemental shooting for the cantina scene that took place in the US after principal photography had concluded. You can source this to "Cantina Roll-Call." ~SavageBOB sig 22:25, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
  • One more thing: There's a red link in the sources list, which isn't allowed. Can you fix it? I'll then be happy to support once the uncrossed sources below are checked. ~SavageBOB sig 17:22, June 12, 2011 (UTC)
    • Yeah, somebody added that source later on. I figured it shouldn't be there, but I may have difficulty writing an article for it, since I do not own the source. Any suggestions for this or for taking care of the uncrossed sources below?--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 19:54, June 12, 2011 (UTC)
      • I have Behind the Magic and might be able to check it in the next couple of days. Another thing you can try is to do a "what links here" on both possible sources. This should bring up a list of users who have the source (if they've linked to it on their userpages). You can then specifically request they check it for you. As for the redlink, you could just stub it and say "Blah blah was an article that appeared in Insider X." Hopefully someone can come in later and expand on it. ~SavageBOB sig 20:11, June 12, 2011 (UTC)
      • Went ahead and checked BTM; he's Po in a still of Bom Vimdin. ~SavageBOB sig 20:21, June 12, 2011 (UTC)
        • Thanks, I took care of making a stub for the article. Now, onto finding out about that last source.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 21:31, June 12, 2011 (UTC)
          • I did as you suggested with Star Wars: The Official Starships & Vehicles Collection 1 and found that only User:Winchester 327 has it listed, and I already asked him about five days ago. I checked his contributions and he hasn't edited since around May 15 this year. What do you think I should do now?--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 21:38, June 12, 2011 (UTC)
            • Rounding up sources for OT characters can be quite a challenge, I know! Another suggestion would be to log into IRC and ask if anyone there has the source. You can also try posting up a Senate Hall or Knowledge Bank thread asking for help tracking the source down. ~SavageBOB sig 22:00, June 12, 2011 (UTC)
              • If I might interject. While it's not against the rules to have a redlink in the Sources section, it's recommended that you create the article for the reader to better understand the article. However, you can still bring this up during a review, it should just be in a form of a comment rather than an objection. I hope that helps. Kilson(Let's have a chat) 05:51, June 13, 2011 (UTC)
                • I think there's a rule that you can't have any redlinks in templates, though, and in this case, the source was a template. But duly noted. ~SavageBOB sig 06:01, June 13, 2011 (UTC)
  • OK, one last thing in addition to the above: The article is claiming that this guy is a humanoid, but we don't actually see his body. I think if this guy ever appears in another source, we probably will find out he's a humanoid, but at this point, it's speculation to say so, I think. I realize some might think it's petty to object to the article's title like this, but other cantina characters have been revealed to have radically different body types than humanoid, such as Dice Ibegon and Ketwol, so it's possible this guy will be too at some point. Maybe Unidentified mustachioed individual or ... figure? ~SavageBOB sig 20:11, June 12, 2011 (UTC)
Hanzo Hasashi
  • If this individual's gender is unidentified, remove the category of males, and I noticed that you mentioned "he" to describe this alien at one point in the BTS, remove that too. Also this is optional and not really an objection, but could you also find other articles linking to this character's page, and change them so they don't describe this character as being male? I could do that part for you too, if you wanted. Hanzo Hasashi 03:23, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
GTQ
  • There is a bit of a run on sentence in the intro. If you can break it up go ahead but if it is not possible it's ok GTQ(Problems?) 01:46, June 13, 2011 (UTC)
    • Yeah, I'm not sure if I can break this up at all. It all defines the point in time he was at the Mos Eisley Cantina. Any suggestions are welcome.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 02:25, June 13, 2011 (UTC)
      • Ok leave as is I've got no suggestions GTQ(Problems?) 02:56, June 13, 2011 (UTC)
Cav
  • Preliminary objection/ queriy before I review the article - is the descriptive (Chalmun's Spaceport Cantina) really needed in the article name? Isn't "Unidentified mustachioed individual" descriptive enough? - Cavalier OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 22:41, June 13, 2011 (UTC)
    • I think that there is probably some other unidentfied character with a mustache out there somewhere. So I think the full description should stay.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 22:46, June 13, 2011 (UTC)
      • I would like other people's opinions about changing the name of the article. Any thoughts?--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 02:09, June 30, 2011 (UTC)
        • Right, I get the reasoning for the qualifier being needed if there is more than one individual sharing the name, but do we have an article called Unidentified mustachioed individual? Not currently, apparently, so there is no confusion. If one turns up, then qualifiers may be needed. Taking an example from the clone troopers, we only add (clone trooper) after the name if it conflicts with another article. This doesn't. - Cavalier OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 19:19, June 30, 2011 (UTC)
          • Good point. I have moved the article to the suggested name.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 12:19, July 1, 2011 (UTC)
  • Main image - there's a lot of dead space to the right of the image. What's the reasoning for this, and why is the image not cropped tighter to showcase the individual?
    • Someone else (I do not remember who) thought that it looked better without all of the empty space. I think it looks better this way than as a little box with white space around it as well.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 14:21, July 6, 2011 (UTC)
      • It was Bob. But he was right, IMO. It really did look awful as just a tiny crop of the guy's head. Menkooroo 14:28, July 6, 2011 (UTC)
        • As long as its already been addressed, then that's fine.
  • The intro is two lines, with the first being a really long run-on sentence. I would suggest splitting this to make at least three sentences of text in the intro.
  • Some context on his table mates in the intro would be nice as well. - Cavalier OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 14:04, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

Comments


Just another example of the kind of article I like to write.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 03:37, June 7, 2011 (UTC)