Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Unidentified clone stormtrooper

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Unidentified clone stormtrooper

  • Nominated by: --Clone Commander Lee Talk 20:39, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments: An interesting try from Star Wars: Purge. 297 words. I was bored at that evening, so lets see what it becomes

(3 ACs/4 Users/7 Total)

Support

  1. JangFett (Talk) 19:21, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
  2. ACvote Jonjedigrandmaster Jedi symbol (We seed the stars) 18:27, March 19, 2010 (UTC)
  3. -- 1358 (Talk) 17:57, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
    ACvote Toprawa and Ralltiir 02:52, March 24, 2010 (UTC)
    • I'm striking my vote for now. Naru's most recent additions have completely reshaped the face of this article, such that it no longer even remotely resembles the version I once reviewed and voted for. This would require a whole new copy-edit for me to be satisfied with the new changes. Plus, I'm very skeptical of some of the information that has been added. I'll leave this circus for CC to take charge of, if he would be so willing. Toprawa and Ralltiir 23:38, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
  4. —fodigg BlackRebelStarbird (talk) | 18:49, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
  5. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 23:33, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
  6. ACvote CC7567 (talk) 22:12, April 19, 2010 (UTC)
  7. ACvote Cylka-talk- 15:30, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

Object

  1. Fett
    • You have some sourcing issues in the infobox. You can't source the content that's under affiliation to the clone trooper db entry. Doing so would mean that this unidentified clone trooper commander is mentioned somehow in the entry, though, he's not. Purge is the correct source for those two under affiliation.
      • Fixed.
    • Intro-" After Order 66 was executed in 19 BBY, the clone commander hunted the Aleena Jedi Master" Who is this Aleena Jedi Master? If it's Choi, then please add "Aleena" before "Jedi General" when you first mentioned him.
      • Added.
    • "until they were in a blind alley" I do not understand what you meant by this. Can you clarify?
      • A synonym for blind alley would be dead-end street or impasse.
    • "There, the commander cursed and stated on the question of a clone trooper that Order 66 remained in effect." Quite confusing, as I don't know what you meant. Please clarify.
      • Hopefully clarified.
    • Also, I corrected quite a few simple grammatical errors, linking, and a few tense issues. Please watch out for these. JangFett (Talk) 23:30, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
  2. NaruBeast
    • The intro is very choppy, try connecting the sentences a bit more.
      • Still?
    • Context on Order 66 in the intro.
      • Added.
    • Say somewhere (preferably in both the intro and body, but at least the body) that he was a clone of Jango.
      • Added.
    • "After taking the track on the Jedi..." What? Rephrase.
      • Rephrased.
    • I forget this all the time so I'm not one to judge, but put your articles through a spell check before you nominate them.
      • Okay.
    • Source the first sentance of the body to the DB entry on clone troopers.
      • Was sourced.
    • "There, the commander cursed and stated on the question of a clone trooper that Order 66 remained in effect." Rephrase.
      • Rephrased.
        • I've done this one, but I question whether this should be included at all. It's not truly neccesary to a documentation of the clone's life. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 04:28, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
          • I think it should be included, but if another will object this too, I will remove it.
            • I'll strike this for now. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 03:20, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
    • How do you know this guy is a commander and not some other rank?
      • That was the article name but you're right. He was not referred as commander. Also he has the same command uniform like CT-65/91-6210. Enough or should we change it into officer.
        • Personally I don't think that's enough. As far as I know, Phase II armor is so customizable that a specific "this color or armor sceme means this" is impossible. For example, the clone trooper commander article states: "Some commanders allowed their best troops to also wear ARC armor." NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 04:28, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
          • At least, he became a clone stormtrooper after the Imperial Declaration was given. Include that. If you decide to rid the article of mention that he was a commander in the GAR, change the article to "Unidentified clone stormtooper" and add a Bts note that his armor resembled a clone commander's. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 04:42, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
            • Changed. --Clone Commander Lee Talk 19:09, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
              • You haven't added anything about his status as a clone stormtrooper. (And the infobox still reads "commander") NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 03:20, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
                • Changed that in the infobox, but we have no source that he became a stormtrooper. --Clone Commander Lee Talk 17:48, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
                  • The fact that he is a clone trooper who transerred into the Empire army means he is a clone stormtrooper per works such as Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader or even, I believe, Star Wars: Battlefront II.
                    • Well, but we cannot be sure. If you don't insist on it to 100 percent I wouldn't add it. --Clone Commander Lee Talk 19:07, March 12, 2010 (UTC)
                      • The Grand Army of the Republic no longer exists at this point, and the clone trooper classification went with it. There are only stormtroopers after about the first few days of the Empire, and SW:P happens well after that threshold, so we can be 100% sure he's a stormtrooper. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 20:13, March 14, 2010 (UTC)
                        • Included it in the bio.
                          • You can't just include a sentance that the troopers became stormtroopers and call this one good. You have a fully sourcable rank compared to the (previously acceptable) assumption that he was a clone trooper officer. This needs to be fully integrated into the article. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 23:28, March 18, 2010 (UTC)
                            • It put the info about the stomrtrooper in the bio. Hope this satifys his objection. --Clone Commander Lee Talk 20:14, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
                              • The article still primarily refers to him as a "clone officer," the latter half of which you cannot cite. 1) All mentyion of the word "officer" should be scrubbed out. (See below) 2) Mentions of him in the intro (While mentioning he was part of the GAotR), bio (After the first paragraph), P&T, and Bts should say that he was a stormtrooper or simply a "clone." You can cite that he changed ranks to the quote I left you on your talk page. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 20:54, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
                              • 'Naru he is a officer, so I don't understand this objection. --Clone Commander Lee Talk 19:21, March 24, 2010 (UTC)
                                • I can only judge from the images in this article, but I would say we have enough to go on just by visual analysis to tab him as an officer. Is he not leading this squad in the comic? Toprawa and Ralltiir 19:23, March 24, 2010 (UTC)
                                  • He's basing it on the color and style of the armor already, but you can't really do that with Phase II armor because it is so customizable, and officers sometimes even allowed their subbordinates to wear that style of armor as a sign of respect. Its not like phase I, or any other army, where you can automatically tell what rank he is by his colors, look, insignia, etc. This clone is not a clone trooper anymore after Palpy gave the Declaration of a New Order, he's a clone stormtrooper, which is a completely different animal. Therefore, after the Declarationis mentioned in the article, should not he be refered to by his new title, and in the Page Name as well? Also, just because he lead the squad doesn't mean he was an officer when he was in the GAotR or in the Stormy Corps., it (can) just mean he led his squad that day, or was designated squadleader, or some other option but it doesn't automatically make him of command authority or an officer at all. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 23:23, March 24, 2010 (UTC)
                                    • I just found a source which says he was a clone commander during the Clone Wars: here. I found it while looking for a source for something in the Tsui Choi article. Replace occurences of "officer" before the declaration with commander in the bio, but change the "officer"s after that to clone stormtrooper. Mention he was a commander the GAR in the intro and the P&T if you decide to talk about his servce in the GAR there as well. Part 2 of my objection still stands. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 01:23, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
                                      • Sorry Naru, I don't see any info on this page. If you add it yourself, someone can check it. Clone Commander Lee Talk 18:27, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
                                        • I hate linking to webpages, this always happens. >:( It'll work now. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 20:32, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
                                          • Fixed, but there is a sourcing error now. And I still believe that his commander rank is the right for his Empire time. Clone Commander Lee Talk 18:37, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
                                            • I fixed the sourcing error. You used "ref name=" and put a "ref/" at the end by mistake. Would you like me to just fix this one myself so I can vote for this article? NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 01:09, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
                                              • I would possible be the bset if you fix it. You know best what you want to change and I've got some problems to understand you. Clone Commander Lee Talk 08:35, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
                                                • There. This... Nebulaxian discussion is over. (Unless there's something you truly find ojectionable about what I did, of course, but I didn't do anything I didn't ask of you).
    • Now you need to add that Hasbro.com link to the External links and use the link in your referencing. Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:39, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
      • If citing external links is beyond your abilities, please ask and I'm sure someone would be willing to assist you. Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:47, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
        • I refuse to contribute to the Nebulaxian ******************* conversation, so I'll post here. The external link reference should properly use the citeweb citation. You may consider this an official objection as well. And it would help if we let Lee do this himself rather than fixing everything for him so that he learns how it's done. Toprawa and Ralltiir 01:19, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
          • Fixed. Clone Commander Lee Talk 08:35, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
            • No, it's not fixed. And please don't me it is until you've completed what I've asked at least four times now on here and under your post on Master Jonathan's talk page. The citeweb template should be used to cite the external link, which it is not. Since you clearly haven't the slightest idea how this is done, MJ was kind enough to leave instructions on his talk page. Please follow them. Toprawa and Ralltiir 17:31, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
              • First, there is no need to be rude. I fixed with the help of the citeweb page and MJ's talk page and I asked him if it is now correct. Clone Commander Lee Talk 18:39, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
                • If it's rudeness, I apologize, but so be it. Because I know I'm not the only one who is becoming exasperated with how things needs to be explained to you a half-dozen times before you finally get it right on the page, while meanwhile you tell us that what you have is fixed when it's not. This happens on every single one of your nominations, which includes your questionable grasp of the English language. I don't fault you for that, but you must begin to understand, as we've explained to you dozens of times by now, that we aren't English language instructors. You're rapidly reaching the point where the AC is not going to overhaul your nomination for you for grammatical errors any more. So please be forewarned. Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:08, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
                • Now on to further objections. Considering the obscurity of this Hasbro.com information, some sort of BTS note should be left explaining the origin of his "commander" rank. Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:08, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
                  • Fixed. Clone Commander Lee Talk 09:38, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
                    • That's not exactly self sourcing. You need to actually leave a reference note for that statement, and it would help if you would link to the specific page in the sentence.
    • Reference 4 needs to use the Insider citation template. Toprawa and Ralltiir 17:21, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
    • Expand the P&T. If you don't know what you could add, look at a clone that's been GA'd already. One thing off the top of my head would be just to sort-of list his characteristics as a clne of Jango.
      • He has only three sentences so it's quite difficult. Added something about being loyal.
    • NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 23:41, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
    • Look back at the comic for a moment and see if this character's back is shown. If there is a long tube horozontal on his lower back (Like this, only I think more rectangular) it is a thermal detonator, which should be added to his equipment.NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 04:53, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
      • Added.
  3. The Grand Master
    • The intro is a little long for the article's size; could it be cut down a little?
      • Shortened.
    • Could you mention sooner in the bio that this officer served under Choi during the Clone Wars?
      • Better?
    • What do you mean "a blind alley?" How was the alley "blind?"
    • I fail to see how the fact that this officer trailed Choi makes him loyal.
      • Well he was loyal to the Empire by executing Order 66.
        • Yes, but you just say "as a loyal clone trooper," implying he was loyal in general. And he is just as much a traitor to Choi as he is loyal to the Empire. Jonjedigrandmaster Jedi symbol (We seed the stars) 19:11, March 14, 2010 (UTC)
          • Changed to loyal to the Empire.
    • "Although a trained soldier, he was unable to defend himself when he was attacked from behind by the Jedi Master, an event which resulted in his death." This isn't very clear: how was he unable to defend himself; did he even get a chance to defend himself? Also, does this really belong in the P&T?
      • Better?
        • Okay, but then what does this have to do with him being a trained soldier? If he didn't get a chance to defend himself, then he would've died no matter what, and it doesn't matter that he was a trained soldier. Jonjedigrandmaster Jedi symbol (We seed the stars) 19:11, March 14, 2010 (UTC)
          • Corrected.
            • Okay, but I'll repeat: does this really belong in the P&T? What does this have to do with his personality? Jonjedigrandmaster Jedi symbol (We seed the stars) 20:44, March 15, 2010 (UTC)
              • Well, several clones managed to kill their Jedi officer and he could not due to faster reactions of Choi. I removed it.
    • As a note: please watch your linking in the future, as well as your grammar. And remember not to link anything in quotes or images unless they do not appear in the article's body itself. Jonjedigrandmaster Jedi symbol (We seed the stars) 20:00, March 12, 2010 (UTC)
    • Eh and what would you say about Narus last objection. Is he a stormtrooper or not ?. --Clone Commander Lee Talk 18:56, March 15, 2010 (UTC)
  4. Toprawa:
    • I'm not sure I see enough to warrant making the following assertion: "Like all clone troopers, the clone officer was born on the Wild Space planet Kamino as a clone of the Mandalorian bounty hunter Jango Fett." The reference you use for this statement, the Databank, says only the following: "each of the first generations of clone trooper was grown in the cloning facilities of Tipoca City, on the storm-drenched world of Kamino." How do we know this clone qualifies as being among the "first generations" of clone troopers? Figuring this clone doesn't make his first canonical appearance until the very end of the war, could he not just as easily been grown at a different location? Perhaps CC or someone can also weigh in on this. Toprawa and Ralltiir 05:21, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
      • CC is not available for Wookiepedia so far. Possible it would be best to removed Kamino as his homeworld in the infobox and change the first Bio sentence to: Like all clone troopers, the clone officer was a clone of the Mandalorian bounty hunter Jango Fett. ? --Clone Commander Lee Talk 19:45, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
  5. Please fix the article to reflect his stormtrooper rank. Also, the fact that he's a clone commander is unverified information and fanon at this point. CC7567 (talk) 23:59, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
    • I found a source for his commander rank. After that he's a stormie. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 00:19, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
  6. Round II
  7. "There, Choi ambushed the stormtrooper, as well as the three other clones accompanying him and quickly killed the stormtrooper's companions before beheading him." I wanted to point out this out to you, Lee. Is he the only "stormtrooper" and the rest are "clones"? Or are they all stormtroopers? Please be consistent. JangFett (Talk) 23:13, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
    • Clarified. Clone Commander Lee Talk 10:03, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
      • It still sounds like he is the only stormtrooper in that group. In the previous sentence, you just say "troopers," and it follows through to the next sentence. JangFett (Talk) 19:04, April 4, 2010 (UTC)
  8. Attack of the Clone
    • Purge, which is what this fact is referenced to, gives absolutely no indication that the clone commander served under Choi.
      • Removed unverified information.
        • First of all, the intro wording still claims the same thing. Secondly, the Hasbro sourced already referenced in the article explicitly states "Tsui Choi was able to survive Order 66 and defend himself against his clone commander and clone troopers." 08:54, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
          • Fixed.
            • If I'm not being clear enough, when I cite a source that says he was Choi's clone commander, I expect that to be implemented correctly. CC7567 (talk) 09:14, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
    • "There, the stormtrooper dictated that Order 66 remained in effect when a regretful subordinate of his asked about it." His companion's exact line is "What does it matter? The Jedi are dead—most of 'em. Those left are scattered." I hardly see how that qualifies as regret. Please be more specific. CC7567 (talk) 22:59, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

Comments

  • A question to the ACs, he is not referred as commander, but he looks like a commander. Should the article be moved to Unidentified clone officer (Tsui Choi)? --Clone Commander Lee Talk 18:16, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
  • To get my two cents in, per Palpatine's declaration, "The clone troopers, now proudly bearing the honorable rank of Imperial stormtroopers," I'd say that it's safe to assume that the guy is a stormtrooper. CC7567 (talk) 23:59, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
  • Jon and Toprawa, if you have anything to object at the current state of the article I will change it so that you will be satisfied. Clone Commander Lee Talk 09:27, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
  • Toprawa, just if you have missed it, your objection is fixed. Clone Commander Lee Talk 18:47, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Approved as a Good article by AgriCorps 15:30, April 20, 2010 (UTC)