- The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.
Unidentified Utai patron
- Nominated by: NaruHina Talk
16:55, October 9, 2011 (UTC) - Nomination comments: Part 2 of my Drinking PSA.
(4 ACs/4 Users/8 Total)
Support
- Clone Commander Lee Talk 12:40, October 11, 2011 (UTC)
- --Cal Jedi
(Personal Comm Channel) 01:41, October 12, 2011 (UTC) 
Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 19:51, October 19, 2011 (UTC)- JangFett (Talk) 18:39, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
Cavalier One(Squadron channel) 12:10, October 26, 2011 (UTC)- Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 22:12, October 28, 2011 (UTC)
- --Eyrezer 19:39, November 1, 2011 (UTC)
- 1358 (Talk) 20:46, November 2, 2011 (UTC)
Object
Jangeth
Your bio, the entire for that matter, is too pbp. We don't need to know every thing that happened in detail, which is what you do currently in the bio. In the first sentence, "Just after the Galactic Empire was founded in 19 BBY," says that this all occurred just after, meaning it either happened in a day or not even. If this is not the case, please remove irrelevant wording here. Stating only "In 19 BBY" will work just fine here. In the P&T, "Utai were relatively short beings characterized by their pale skin, oblong heads with puckered mouths, and black eyes." Unless you can connect this with this patron, this is more along the lines of fluff if you just state the Utai were this or that because this is not the correct article for that. At the moment this sentence, "The Utai was large and especially stocky for his species." sounds like it's from your poi or the writing is from your opinion rather than from the text. If a character mentions that the Utai was large and stocky, then it would be proper to mention this and connect it with a rewritten version of the next sentence. Or you can cut down on some of the wording such as "especially." Please see what you can do to fix these issues. JangFett (Talk) 14:25, October 10, 2011 (UTC)- It think the reference to the Galactic Empire is kosher because the book does take place soon after its rise and plenty of articles from that period reference it. If you're sure about removing it, I won't fight. It's purpose is basically to vary the wording from the intro more. As for the P&T comments, I've removed the reference to what Utai look like. It's rationale was that I wasn't totally comfortable with a single sentence P&T and that was rectified by my adding the miscegenation comment later. The part about him being stocky is from the text and I reworded the next sentence. Last thing: the Bio is only four sentences long. An average-sized paragraph. It neither mentions what happened in depth or play by play. In fact, it skips half the scene ("Zabrak's third attempt") because it's the same thing happening three times and I was afraid of being accused of fluffery on the Zabrak's own article. I didn't even mention that the Zabrak was spared afterward or how Aurra killed the Shistavanen. I promise that (sans the GE reference) it's the shortest I can make it and still relate all the relevant information. (Note the "I" there, please. While it can sometimes feels like it, saying that someone else or you could do it even shorter isn't constructive criticism on my writing.) NaruHina Talk 16:23, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- Unless you can confirm or if the novel says all these events took place just after the formation of the Empire, you cannot assume that it does. While, yes, the novel takes place after ROTS, the way you word it, like I said above, says these events took place "just after" it formed. As for the bio, length does not matter. If it's pbp, then it needs to be fixed regardless. "He was drinking heavily alongside two companions—a Zabrak and a Shistavanen—in Section 7-B of a large bar complex called The Qarek'k when a female bounty hunter named Aurra Sing entered the establishment. The Utai and Shistavanen helped the Zabrak corner her while the latter tried to proposition the newcomer for them, but she rejected their advances. On the Zabrak's third attempt, he tried to elicit a kiss from Sing, which prompted her to cleave his left arm off at the elbow with her lightsaber. The Utai jumped to his companion's aid armed with a vibroblade, but he was quickly killed by Sing, who vertically bisected him with her weapon, alongside the Shistavanen." Please cut down on some of the detail. JangFett (Talk) 21:15, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- That's not over-detail. It's just the details. I included where it was and what happened and that's it. The current body is what a CA of this guy would include and there's a reason for everything. I can go through every sentence here explicitly if you'd prefer that. Just text-searched the book and it does not explicitly mention the Empire's founding. However, I still think it's relevant for the reason above and will source it properly in a little while. When we're talking about a complete galactic governmental regime change, a few months qualifies as soon afterward. NaruHina Talk 23:14, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- Both still remain. For the bio issue, details within sentences such as
"He was drinking heavily alongside two companions—a Zabrak and a Shistavanen—in Section 7-B of a large bar complex called The Qarek'k when a female bounty hunter named Aurra Sing entered the establishment.""On the Zabrak's third attempt, he tried to elicit a kiss from Sing, which prompted her to cleave his arm off with her lightsaber. The Utai jumped to his companion's aid armed with a vibroblade, but he was quickly killed by Sing, who vertically bisected him with her weapon, alongside the Shistavanen." can be cut down. JangFett (Talk) 04:30, October 11, 2011 (UTC)- Both still remained because it's still not PBP or over-detail and I said I'd source it soon. I've shaved off some minor things. Nothing major. To demonstrate that these excerpts have design, these are the points I think someone in your position would object to most: "Drinking heavily" He was quite inebriated and I need to establish that. To relate that otherwise, I'd need to state that in another sentence and this is shorter; "tried to kiss Sing" The source is unclear as too what sent her over the edge, whether it was the kiss or the third attempt, so I list both; "Section 7-B" The area where they were within the Qarek'k has a canonical name. If it isn't mentioned in the articles on the patrons, then where else would that be mentioned?; "vertically bisecting" He was killed with a slice from head to crotch; "alongside the Shistavanen" They were killed in the same instant. NaruHina Talk 00:15, October 12, 2011 (UTC)
- Per my objections, you didn't do anything from the last time I saw the article. As for the "attempts" issue, if you're not sure what occurred or if the novel does not specifically mention what occurred, you cannot speculate. Also, the context for "in Section 7-B of a large bar complex called The Qarek'k" can be cut down, but what I am objecting to is your use of detail in the following sentences. We don't need to know every little single thing that occurred in the novel. You can reword and cut down much of the details in the bio without sacrificing word count, if that is what you fear. Everything after "Aurra Sing entered the established," needs to be looked at again. "The Utai and Shistavanen helped the Zabrak corner her while the latter tried to proposition the newcomer for them, but she rejected their advances. The Zabrak tried to kiss Sing on his third attempt, which prompted her to cleave his arm off with her lightsaber. The Utai jumped to his companion's aid armed with a vibroblade, but he was quickly killed by Sing, who vertically bisected him with her weapon, alongside the Shistavanen." I quoted this above as well. I don't see why it's difficult for you to cut down on some of the detail that makes these sentences read very pbp. Not only this, and I haven't mentioned this yet because I want you to focus on eliminating the irrelevant details, why did these two heavily drinking guys corner Aurra? Please see what you can do. JangFett (Talk) 02:17, October 12, 2011 (UTC)
- Both still remained because it's still not PBP or over-detail and I said I'd source it soon. I've shaved off some minor things. Nothing major. To demonstrate that these excerpts have design, these are the points I think someone in your position would object to most: "Drinking heavily" He was quite inebriated and I need to establish that. To relate that otherwise, I'd need to state that in another sentence and this is shorter; "tried to kiss Sing" The source is unclear as too what sent her over the edge, whether it was the kiss or the third attempt, so I list both; "Section 7-B" The area where they were within the Qarek'k has a canonical name. If it isn't mentioned in the articles on the patrons, then where else would that be mentioned?; "vertically bisecting" He was killed with a slice from head to crotch; "alongside the Shistavanen" They were killed in the same instant. NaruHina Talk
- Both still remain. For the bio issue, details within sentences such as
- That's not over-detail. It's just the details. I included where it was and what happened and that's it. The current body is what a CA of this guy would include and there's a reason for everything. I can go through every sentence here explicitly if you'd prefer that. Just text-searched the book and it does not explicitly mention the Empire's founding. However, I still think it's relevant for the reason above and will source it properly in a little while. When we're talking about a complete galactic governmental regime change, a few months qualifies as soon afterward. NaruHina Talk
- Unless you can confirm or if the novel says all these events took place just after the formation of the Empire, you cannot assume that it does. While, yes, the novel takes place after ROTS, the way you word it, like I said above, says these events took place "just after" it formed. As for the bio, length does not matter. If it's pbp, then it needs to be fixed regardless. "He was drinking heavily alongside two companions—a Zabrak and a Shistavanen—in Section 7-B of a large bar complex called The Qarek'k when a female bounty hunter named Aurra Sing entered the establishment. The Utai and Shistavanen helped the Zabrak corner her while the latter tried to proposition the newcomer for them, but she rejected their advances. On the Zabrak's third attempt, he tried to elicit a kiss from Sing, which prompted her to cleave his left arm off at the elbow with her lightsaber. The Utai jumped to his companion's aid armed with a vibroblade, but he was quickly killed by Sing, who vertically bisected him with her weapon, alongside the Shistavanen." Please cut down on some of the detail. JangFett (Talk) 21:15, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- It think the reference to the Galactic Empire is kosher because the book does take place soon after its rise and plenty of articles from that period reference it. If you're sure about removing it, I won't fight. It's purpose is basically to vary the wording from the intro more. As for the P&T comments, I've removed the reference to what Utai look like. It's rationale was that I wasn't totally comfortable with a single sentence P&T and that was rectified by my adding the miscegenation comment later. The part about him being stocky is from the text and I reworded the next sentence. Last thing: the Bio is only four sentences long. An average-sized paragraph. It neither mentions what happened in depth or play by play. In fact, it skips half the scene ("Zabrak's third attempt") because it's the same thing happening three times and I was afraid of being accused of fluffery on the Zabrak's own article. I didn't even mention that the Zabrak was spared afterward or how Aurra killed the Shistavanen. I promise that (sans the GE reference) it's the shortest I can make it and still relate all the relevant information. (Note the "I" there, please. While it can sometimes feels like it, saying that someone else or you could do it even shorter isn't constructive criticism on my writing.) NaruHina Talk
Lee
Place of death is missing in the infobox.Clone Commander Lee Talk 17:30, October 10, 2011 (UTC)- Added. Do you know if there's a structure for adding the place on the planet where he died to that field? I've seen that sometimes. NaruHina Talk 19:07, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- Good question. No idea, but I'm sure that it is not wrong to do it. Clone Commander Lee Talk 12:40, October 11, 2011 (UTC)
- Added. Do you know if there's a structure for adding the place on the planet where he died to that field? I've seen that sometimes. NaruHina Talk
Jujiggum
Just one: why don't you mention in the P&T that "he jumped to his companion's aid"?Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 16:17, October 11, 2011 (UTC)
Eyrezer
"Be a shame to see a pretty snowflake like you get hurt when all we want is some nice." Is this quote complete? --Eyrezer 07:26, November 1, 2011 (UTC)
Ecks Dee
Based on my Word, the article seems down to 247 words.1358 (Talk) 18:44, November 2, 2011 (UTC)
Comments
Approved as a Good article by AgriCorps 20:46, November 2, 2011 (UTC)
- Just checking, can 19 BBY be sourced to the book?--Cal Jedi (Personal Comm Channel) 02:15, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- I've been told it can. NaruHina Talk 16:25, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- Does the book come right out and say "19 BBY"? If not, what were you told of why it can be sourced to the book?--Cal Jedi (Personal Comm Channel) 21:39, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- Does the book come right out and say "19 BBY"? If not, what were you told of why it can be sourced to the book?--Cal Jedi
- I've been told it can. NaruHina Talk