Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Showdown on Coruscant

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Showdown on Coruscant

  • Nominated by: NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 01:02, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments: RGAN #2

(3 ACs/3 Users/6 Total)

Support

  1. QuiGonJinnBe mindful of the Living Force...Quigonheadshot 16:57, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
  2. SoresuMakashi(Everything I tell you is a lie) 11:51, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
  3. ACvote —Tommy Dark Side Master TotG (Nine two eight one) 09:28, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
  4. Inqvote Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 02:36, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
  5. --Darth tom Imperial Emblem (Imperial Intelligence) 22:14, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
  6. ACvote Cylka-talk- 00:52, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Object

  1. Too many images. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 15:52, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
  2. Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, and Saesee Tiin are not linked in the Prelude, they linked later instead. An article needs to be linked when it first appears in the main body. I've only noticed those three, but check the other links, I could've missed some. QuiGonJinnBe mindful of the Living Force...Quigonheadshot 17:54, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
  3. Aftermath section? DC 03:40, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
    • How in the world did I forget that? Added. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 04:27, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
  4. Could you start the article with: The Duel in the Chancellor's office was a lightsaber duel fought in the Chancellor's Suite in 19 BBY. The duel began when...? Otherwise you're missing time and event. SoresuMakashi(Everything I tell you is a lie) 04:47, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
  5. "A few rounds with Wookieepedia's resident Battlemaster:"
    • A tricky business, this writing of duel articles is. That being said,
    • I think the infamous {{Twoconflicting}} tag is in order here, since the novel and movie differ considerably with regards to how the contest transpired.
      • Agreed, sadly. Added. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 08:54, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
    • Rectify the over/underlinking found throughout.
    • "All but Windu quickly fell to the Dark Lord of the Sith and the two fought a spectacular duel. Windu cornered Darth Sidious, kicking away his lightsaber, and held the blade to his neck as Skywalker arrived in the room." Spectacular? Seems a little POVish to me.
    • "Skywalker told Windu not to kill him as it was not the Jedi way and that the courts should decide his fate. Windu knew he would hold sway in the courts and would never be convicted." Which him are you referring to here? Sounds like Skywalker is telling Mace not to kill Skywalker.
    • "The electric currents flowing through Sidious disfigured his skin, making it almost reptilian in nature." I recall Palpatine specifically referring to his face as a mask, and that his true form had been revealed. This implies that if his face was "reptilian in nature," it was like that before the duel, and that the fight just exposed the truth.
      • Do you have a source for that? NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 08:54, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
        • Sure. In the novelization, Sidious says this: "And so the mask becomes the man[…]I shall miss the face of Palpatine, I think; but for our purpose, the face of Sidious will serve. Yes, it will serve." According to Sidious himself, he was wearing a "Palpatine" mask to cover his true face, which we see after the duel.
    • I would remove the bit at the end of the intro about Palpatine initiating Order 66. The actual confrontation ends with Anakin becoming Vader.
      • Removed. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 08:54, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
        • You removed too much. See the last part of the original objection.—Tommy Dark Side Master TotG (Nine two eight one) 02:05, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
          • Well, the actual duel ended when one of the combatants was killed. Anakin becoming Vader happened in the duels aftermath. Since the intro is a summary of the duel itself, should his be included? NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 05:55, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
            • Though it appears in the aftermath, it is a key aspect of the event, whereas the Order 66/death to Jedi bit was going a bit too far. If you look here, you'll notice that the events in the aftermath are briefed in the intro as well, even though that contest had already ended.—Tommy Dark Side Master TotG (Nine two eight one) 06:55, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
    • I would also remove some parts of the intro, because some of them lean rather close to play-by-play action.
      • I'm not sure how to cut it down further while still completely summarizing the article.
    • Anakin is the only Skywalker here, and he should be addressed as such, same deal with Master Windu.
    • "This lightsaber duel was a focal point of Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith as it explains how Darth Vader, an antagonist from the original trilogy, joined the Sith, and why Palpatine's face became deformed." I thought that Palpatine's deformities were the result of years of being physically ravaged by the dark side, and that his "masque" simply melted away.
    • Manage these, and more may follow.—Tommy Dark Side Master TotG (Nine two eight one) 06:27, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
  6. Riposte:
    • "Windu cornered Darth Sidious, Palpatine's true name, as Skywalker arrived in the room." Palpatine was his true name; Sidious was his true identity.
    • The way the first paragraph of the intro is laid out leaves room for guessing how the combatants fought each other. Especially when you say Palpatine "unleashed himself in a violent fury."
    • After you make the reader aware that Palpatine is is truly Sidious, you should refer to him thenceforth as such.
    • "Windu raised his blade to strike and Skywalker panicked, cutting off Windu's sword arm with his lightsaber." Cutting off one's sword arm with a lightsaber has a specific designation. You do it in the body but not the intro.
    • "This confrontation was a key element of Palpatine's plot to destroy the Jedi Order, in which he manipulated Anakin Skywalker to do his bidding." Huh? Sorry but this is not a satisfactory beginning to an article of any sort. The firsty few sentences of the prelude need to be reworked. Also, when you speak of Skywalker's wife, though the mention is brief, her name should be used in conjunction.
    • The first paragraph of "The duel" needs to be moved and added to the last paragragh of the "prelude" section.
    • "…effortlessly stabbed him in the stomach." Like the cutting off of one's weapon arm with a lightsaber, stabbing staight through has a designation.
    • I believe "the duel" section is a tad pbp.
      • Isn't it supposed to be? It is an article about a fight so I can't just say they attempt to arrest him, duel, die, etc. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 23:44, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
        • Trust me, I am feel the same as you do, having been in this very same position. Duel articles skirt on the fine line between pbp and sufficient detail, and it is our job to find a comfortable balance. I personally prefer more detail, but the general mood of the site is that we do all we can to avoid pbp as much as possible. See if there are some minor things you can trim, that you deem unnecessary. If you truly cannot, I'll give it a once-over, and strike.—Tommy Dark Side Master TotG (Nine two eight one) 01:18, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
          • I've cut some though I higly doubt its enough. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 05:44, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
            • Very good with recognizing what I was saying, but I agree with you. With your permission, I can trim down in some areas a tad bit more than already done. Please advise if this is acceptable to you, or, we can meet in IRC sometime and iron out the rest together.—Tommy Dark Side Master TotG (Nine two eight one) 21:19, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
    • "The bolts flowed through Sidious, injuring him and deforming his face hideously." Reword since we've established that the lightning revealed the deformities instead of causing them.
    • "His face contorted with the enormity of his decision, Windu raised his blade to deliver the killing blow, and Skywalker made his fateful decision." The contorting face bit is unnecessary, as is the fateful decision part. Make it less dramatic, please, as it comes across like the writer's own POV.
    • That should be about it.—Tommy Dark Side Master TotG (Nine two eight one) 02:05, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
    • "Palpatine claimed the Jedi were in rebellion, while Windu declared the ultimate defeat of the Sith." The GJP was hardly a Jedi rebellion.
      • It actually links to a sub-section of the GJP page detailing Palpy's ruse and the "rebellion." NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 23:00, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
    • "A brief instant after Windu's death, Skywalker realized that he had been tricked more than once. Not only did Palpatine fake his weakness, but he also cautiously admitted that cheating death was a power only his master achieved, thus admitting he did not actually know the secret to stopping death. Inwardly, Skywalker was shocked and enraged by the deception." Can you source this statement specifically? I didn't get that impression from the movie, and I'm having a time finding it the novel. If so, cool, but if not, that kinda borders OR, imho.—Tommy Dark Side Master TotG (Nine two eight one) 21:19, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
      • I didn't write that and I 'm not sure so I'll remove it. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 23:00, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
        • Cool beans.
  7. The {{twoconflicting}} is unnecessary; one if G-canon, one is not. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 13:00, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
    • For the sake of avoiding conflict, I have no problem with it being removed.—Tommy Dark Side Master TotG (Nine two eight one) 19:17, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
      • Alright, removed. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 23:27, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
  8. From the Ataru-wielding desk of Atarumaster88
    • Should the title of a legend be in quotation marks or something? It's certainly a proper noun.
    • The prelude is far too sketchy about Anakin's initial confrontation with Palps.
    • "This is also the first and only time all four colors of lightsaber blades shown in the movies have been in the same scene together (red, blue, green and violet). " This is not self-sourcing. EDIT: Neither is the entire paragraph in which it appears.
      • It gives the names of every relevant source in the prose, Episodes III and VI as well as all 6 Star Wars movies in general. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 14:38, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
        • Yes, but that doesn't make it self-sourcing. The movies never say that the duel was a focal point. I'd prefer to see some more specific references there to avoid any appearances of original research. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 16:34, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
          • Reworded so it omits the ORish statement. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 02:46, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
            • I've also added in a slightly redundant ref which satisfies me. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 02:36, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
    • "Mace brought the B team to arrest Palpatine" This is not a question. Please get the correct quote.
      • I don't know the quote or have that source so if you know it please fix it, if you don't I'll just remove it. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 14:38, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
    • "The activation of the Jedi Masters' lightsabers was digitally confirmed by Imperial agents in the audio recording presented in the novelization." The paragraph that contains this sentence is out of place.
    • So is the rest of the paragraph following this sentence: "However, the screenplay stated it was Windu…"
    • The first paragraph of "Difference between sources" is not self-sourcing, as it doesn't specifically refer to the movie by name. If you're going for the self-sourcing approach, please be a little more specific.
      • That was sourced manually. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 05:28, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
    • You are missing Databank sources.
    • Furthermore, I think, Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force is a source. Might be just (Picture only), but still.
    • Furthermore, have a Super Terrific Friendly Un-frustrating day. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 01:52, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
  9. First of all: "The Duel in the Chancellor's Office was a lightsaber duel fought in the Supreme Chancellor's Suite in 19 BBY." – If this is a conjecturally-titled article, the title of the article should not appear so in the intro or anywhere else. Graestan(Talk) 02:42, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
  10. Toprawa:
    • Have you checked Vader: The Ultimate Guide for information? Toprawa and Ralltiir 05:55, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
    • The BTS needs to be cleaned up. The "differences" section is extremely listy and should be prosified better.
      • How is this? I tried to group them a bit more. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 21:31, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
    • Additionally, this section about "debates" is, politely speaking, ridiculous. This needs to be sourced to something legitimate, otherwise it's nothing but fan speculation. Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:09, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
      • Though I disagree, I don't have the time or the resources to rewrite it in a good enough fashion. Removed. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 00:45, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
  11. Cylka:
    • The electric currents flowing through Sidious exposed the almost reptilian features of his true form; one ravaged by years of using the dark side of the Force. Windu raised his blade to strike a killing blow - There needs to be some kind of transition here from the one sentence to the next.
    • Skywalker was ashamed of himself and what he had done, and knew that the Jedi would never allow him to remain with the Order; - could you clarify a bit more as to what exactly Skywalker was ashamed of.
    • Anakin Skywalker was plagued with prophetic visions of his wife, Padmé Amidala, dying in pain during the birth of their child in his dreams - Could you reword the last bit of this sentence a bit. It reads a bit awkwardly.
    • You jump from this paragraph ending -- and his duty as a Jedi to turn him in. -- to this first line in the next paragraph -- After giving up on killing Sidious on sight,. -- How did he get here. It is confusiing how he went from wanting to turn him in, to deciding not to kill him on sight.
      • You say it is his duty to turn him in, and then that it is his duty to eliminate Sith. Are both of these actions his duty? They seem to contradict each other. Please clarify this further.
    • At some point in the Prelude, you need to state that Palapatine is in the Chancellor's Suite. The last location mentioned had been the Opera House, and it isn't very clear that the Jedi are approaching the suite.
    • Master Windu declared the Chancellor under arrest. However, the Sith Lord ensured the audio recording - How did he ensure that the audio recording would show this. This may need to be rewritten a bit.
    • Fisto's use of Form I allowed him to defend himself for a limited time - Form I needs some context here. What about this form allowed Fisto to defend himself.
    • Skywalker no longer saw Sidious as a friend worth defending, rather merely a necessary evil worth tolerating until the time was right to take his place,[1] after realizing that he had been manipulating him and the war since the beginning - The use of pronouns makes it unclear as to who thinks what. Also what war? The Clone Wars? If so, then you either need to give them context, or get rid of their mention.
    • the activation of the Jedi Masters' lightsabers was digitally confirmed by Imperial agents - You introduce Imperial agents before you have introduced that actual formation of the Empire. This makes things a bit confusing.
    • This duel explains until then unknown aspects of the Star Wars Universe - This sentence reads rather awkwardly, and should be rephrased to be a bit clearer.
    • In the novelization, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Mace Windu, and Shaak Ti all claimed that the arrest team consisted of "four of the greatest swordsmen the Jedi Order has ever produced"—a fact less obvious in the movie for Kolar, Tiin, and Fisto. - Why was this less obvious in the movie?
    • In the third paragraph in the "Differences between versions" section in the Bts, there are a couple of issues. The species names Iktotchi and Nautolan are used, but you have not previously established that this is Tiin and Fisto, respectively. This is a bit confusing; Good Lord—it pains me to say this—but you have to give George Lucas some context. I could actually see one of my parents reading this article, and not being too sure how George actually fits into the movie. Believe me, there are people out there like that; There was no Jedi restraint there—Mace Windu was cutting loose - I believe that the language in this sentence is too colloquial.
    • The comic kept the idea of Palpatine slamming Windu on a wall with a powerful Force push, which was stated in the screenplay but absent from the movie, while the novel altered it as Palpatine attempted to push Windu out of the office after the Jedi Master broke the window.' - This sentence needs to be broken up a bit.
    • Instead, it portrayed this time from Anakin Skywalker's point of view, when he left the High Council Chamber for his speeder and arrived at the Office, seeing Mace Windu holding an unarmed Palpatine at blade point.' - This sentence is written a bit awkwardly, and could use a bit of rewording.
    • Finally, there are two more things that need to be closely looked at. First, please watch the use of pronouns. Very often it is confusing as to who is saying what. There are also numerous issues with linking. Please check these out as well.
    • The article really is close to being ready. Please take care of these objections, and I'll look it over again. Cylka-talk- 00:54, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  12. Cylka's second look:
    • For clarity, I believe that you should give a brief explanation how Skywalker goes from talking to Palpatine at the opera, to being sent to the High Council Chamber by Windu. There is no mention of him traveling anywhere.
    • Why did Skywalker go the to suite? Was he worried that the Masters would kill Palpatine? State his reasons for leaving the Council chamber and going to the suite.
    • In the intro you have Skywalker kneeling to become Sidious's apprentice, but this has not been added to, nor detailed in the article proper.
    • Instead of Palpatine's jaw, Windu kicked the right palm - Is Windu kicking Palpatine in the jaw the canon version? If so, this should be added to the article proper.
    • Thus Palpatine could activate the recording device hidden within his office desk in the book—his private chamber had a holoprojector instead of a desk. - I'm a bit confused as to what you want to convey with this sentence. Please clarify.
    • Instead, it portrayed this time from Anakin Skywalker's point of view - What is "this time"? Does it simply mean that the fight sequence was completely cut, or something more? Please clarify.
      • "The junior novelization omitted the entire fighting sequence between Palpatine and the Jedi."
    • Please take care of these objections, along with the one remaining previous objection. Again, I will stress that you need to look over the linking, since I again found numerous issues. Cylka-talk- 12:14, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
      • I will look again but if you see it, fix it. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 17:05, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Comments

  • Just to clairify, everything that does not have a ref tag in the Bts is self-sourcing. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 01:02, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
  • I would request that another AC member did their job and took a look at an article that just needs one more AC vote to pass. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 13:28, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Is "Showdown" (capital S) what's in the source, or "showdown"? -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 19:35, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
    • The whole caption is in caps but this is more canon than a completely fan-made name. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 01:24, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Approved as a Good article by AgriCorps 00:52, 21 March 2009 (UTC)