Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Shmi's theme

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Shmi's theme

(3 ACs/5 Users/8 Total)

Support

  1. ACvote Pre-nom. Kilson 22:23, April 5, 2011 (UTC)
  2. OLIOSTER (talk) 19:05, April 13, 2011 (UTC)
  3. I believe in Fred's music articles! That and I read over it and couldn't find anything to object to. Trak Nar Ramble on 04:57, April 18, 2011 (UTC)
  4. Good show. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 16:46, April 24, 2011 (UTC)
  5. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 16:30, April 26, 2011 (UTC)
  6. Nice. ~SavageBOB sig 15:02, April 27, 2011 (UTC)
  7. ACvote Toprawa and Ralltiir 01:08, April 30, 2011 (UTC)
  8. ACvote 1358 (Talk) 19:27, May 3, 2011 (UTC)

Object

  1. The tag says that the title is conjectural; however, the article's name and its use in the article make it sound as though "Shmi's Theme" is an actual title. I think this should be moved to "Shmi's theme", and some adjustments must be made in the article itself to avoid addressing it by the title. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 11:09, April 20, 2011 (UTC)
    • Oh boy. Why'd you have to bring that up? :P I was using "Shmi's Theme" as kind of a replacement title, but if you feel it is truly necessary, I'll move it and change all references to the title. Also, I'll have to move General Grievous's Theme. MasterFredCommerce Guild(Whatever) 12:50, April 20, 2011 (UTC)
      • Please do. If the title's conjectural, we treat it appropriately. I don't see why music articles should be handled differently. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 09:23, April 23, 2011 (UTC)
        • I'll move it tomorrow when I can get on a computer instead of my iPod. MasterFredCommerce Guild(Whatever) 20:12, April 24, 2011 (UTC)
          • OK, that should be it. I'll continue with General Grievous's theme later. MasterFredCommerce Guild(Whatever) 12:54, April 25, 2011 (UTC)
Rubedo
  • I understand that you cannot find the sheet music, but there are things you can include that can be found by lisatening to the music. These include things like whether the meter is triple or duple, the mode (I'm lenient on this one because it can take some training that I've not even done myself). The length should be more definite as well: you can throw the soundtrack in your comuter and get an exact measurement. I'll listen to the song myself later and see if I hear anything of interest. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 05:18, April 18, 2011 (UTC)
    • Also, I forgot to add whether it was polyphonic, homophonic, or monophonic. If it is just a flute solo backed by long tones played by strings, is it homophonic? I've still got some learning to do on this. Also, I can't exactly determine the length, as I'm not sure precisley where the motif ends. It kinda just runs into the next part without a definite stop. I do know its within a second or two from 30, though. And as for mode, I need to research this. Did we do mode on the other two? MasterFredCommerce Guild(Whatever) 11:22, April 18, 2011 (UTC)
    • Also, do you think you can listen to the clip and help me determine the meter? This one is much harder and less defined than my previous two noms. MasterFredCommerce Guild(Whatever) 11:31, April 18, 2011 (UTC)
      • I can't be sure whether or not it's homophonic without listening to it because, in that situation, it could also be heterophonic, so I'll make a note to listen to it tomorrow and let you know. For now, mode is whether it uses a major or minor scale and you did incorporate that into the other noms. If the infobox doesn't have it's own field for mode, it should so we're covered in cases where we don't know the Key. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 03:03, April 20, 2011 (UTC)
        • OK, so I'm looking up mode on Wikipedia, and I'm not sure if I've got it. Do I just listen to the track and find out which notes are flat, sharp, and natural and then match it with with of the modes? I honostley don't remember this in the previous two. MasterFredCommerce Guild(Whatever) 03:43, April 20, 2011 (UTC)
          • It's not something like that. The major mode starts on the C note of a chromatic scale and progresses to B (do re mi fa sol la ti). The minor mode starts at A and goes to G. Play these scales back to back and you'll instantly hear the difference. Composers use these to impose certain emotional responses (Major is generally happy while minor is generally sad). Just by knowing the context of its use as a farewell to Anakin, I'd bet it's in minor. Identifying the mode in music takes practice because popular music so rarely modulates between them, but, though I'm not the best at it myself, I'll try to identify it for you. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 04:00, April 20, 2011 (UTC)
            • OK, I think I got it. Just explain how you found it when you're done, if ya don't mind, so I can learn. Thanks for your help! :) MasterFredCommerce Guild(Whatever) 04:22, April 20, 2011 (UTC)
              • It's one of those things where you can do it or you can't. Training your ears as a musician (by playing scales for yourself) is pretty much the only way. Here is a decent explaination of the phenomenon. I don't think we should include the mode without the Key anymore because one needs to have a concrete sound (the Key in major and minor) to compare it to. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 17:15, April 20, 2011 (UTC)
                • Anyway, the piece is homophonic and it is actually nonmetrical. You could add a note about the harps chiming in. John Williams is the man. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 17:15, April 20, 2011 (UTC)
                  • I've one more note: when you write up recurring themes that represent characters or whatever, call them "leitmotifs instead of simply themes. This would apply for things like The Force Theme or Darth Vader's theme. These are when the piece is clearly meant to solely represent a single subject though, so The Imperial March is not a leitmotif. If this comes up, forgive me if I spell that with a v. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 17:26, April 20, 2011 (UTC)
                    • Ah, I'm starting to understand this better. All the scales we play in band are major. I played some minor scales just a while ago, and the difference is obvious to me. :P I don't think it'll take long for me to be able to differentiate with these motifs. Thanks for the link to that study. Also, I can hear the homophonic and nonmetrical. I'll add that. So, I basically need to add that's it's homophonic, nonmetrical, and in a minor mode. Got it. MasterFredCommerce Guild(Whatever) 22:26, April 20, 2011 (UTC)
                      • OK, I believe I've addressed everything. MasterFredCommerce Guild(Whatever) 19:09, April 21, 2011 (UTC)
                        • I'm still a bit wary of stating the mode without knowing the key, but since our interpretations agree, I don't mind. Go Team Music! NaruHina16:46, April 24, 2011 (UTC)
                          • Strike that bit about the March not being a leitmotiv. It represents the Empire. I'm just crazy. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 17:37, April 24, 2011 (UTC)
                            • I was wondering what the heck you were talking about. :P Thanks anyway for the review. :) MasterFredCommerce Guild(Whatever) 20:12, April 24, 2011 (UTC)
Prepare to be savaged…
  • I don't think the one-sentence sections are necessary (under "Uses"). Instead, I'd suggest making those subheaders the beginning of the sentences, so you'd get a two-sentence paragraph: "In the Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace soundtrack, the piece makes only one short appearance two minutes and twelve seconds into the track "Anakin Is Free". In the movies, the theme appears exclusively in the scene in Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace where Anakin Skywalker makes his last farewell to his mother, Shmi Skywalker, before leaving Tatooine, freed from slavery." Something like that. ~SavageBOB sig 04:29, April 27, 2011 (UTC)
    • Fixed. I didn't use your specifiec wording because I forgot. :P MasterFredCommerce Guild(Whatever) 12:52, April 27, 2011 (UTC)
      • Oppose then! Kidding, kidding. Good job, Fred. ~SavageBOB sig 15:02, April 27, 2011 (UTC)
        • Ha Thanks. And thanks for the review too. MasterFredCommerce Guild(Whatever) 18:27, April 27, 2011 (UTC)
Toprawa
  • This is a dangling modifier. It's essentially saying "the flute is a slow, emotional piece." Please reword/revise: "A slow, emotional piece, the flute utilizes..." Toprawa and Ralltiir 19:52, April 28, 2011 (UTC)

Comments

Approved as a Good article by AgriCorps 19:27, May 3, 2011 (UTC)


Thanks to Kilson for a pre-nom review. MasterFredCommerce Guild(Whatever) 12:52, April 5, 2011 (UTC)

What Trak Could Track
  • Is there any information available on the key signature of this piece? If not, then don't worry about it. It still snags my vote. Trak Nar Ramble on 05:13, April 18, 2011 (UTC)
    • Without the sheet music, I can't be certain of the key. I can always tell be ear what it sounds like (though I need practice in this), but that is not always accurate. Many pieces sound like their written in one key, but they are actually in another and use accidentals. MasterFredCommerce Guild(Whatever) 11:25, April 18, 2011 (UTC)
  • I think "The flute utilizes vibrato throughout the entire solo in order to reflect the immense emotion in the scene. The slow feel of the music does this even more so" may be floating on the bad side of POV. Would you consider changing it back? NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 23:45, April 28, 2011 (UTC)
    • I had thought of this, but aren't the two things above (slow tempo with a lot of vibrato) used for that exact purpose? That's how I've always understood it. And reverting wouldn't do any different, as the other way says the same thing (aside from what Tope stated above). I'll do whatever needs to be done. Just tell me if I'm mistaken on the vibrato thing. MasterFredCommerce Guild(Whatever) 03:56, April 29, 2011 (UTC)
      • The slow tempo and minor mode accent the melancholy scene. Try that. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 22:49, April 29, 2011 (UTC)