- The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.
Obitoki
- Nominated by: NaruHina Talk
08:12, March 12, 2011 (UTC) - Nomination comments: Oki-Doki, here's a CAN dropout.
(3 ACs/4 Users/7 Total)
Support
Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 00:42, March 13, 2011 (UTC)- Kilson 05:59, March 13, 2011 (UTC)
- Menkooroo 04:47, March 14, 2011 (UTC)
- Clone Commander Lee Talk 18:53, March 15, 2011 (UTC)
- 1358 (Talk) 19:40, March 18, 2011 (UTC)
- ~ SavageBob 01:05, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
Toprawa and Ralltiir 02:09, April 3, 2011 (UTC)
Object
Jujiggum
"…it leaves the wreck's occurrence during the Boonta Eve Classic and Obitoki's death ambiguous." You never mentioned anything about any of the sources claiming Obitoki had died before. Was this in the TPM novelization?Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 00:32, March 13, 2011 (UTC)- "In the novel, Obitoki and Habba Kee die in the crash described above during the Boonta Eve Classic of 32 BBY." NaruHina Talk 00:37, March 13, 2011 (UTC)
- Wow, my apologies. No idea how I overlooked that… Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 00:42, March 13, 2011 (UTC)
- "In the novel, Obitoki and Habba Kee die in the crash described above during the Boonta Eve Classic of 32 BBY." NaruHina Talk
Toprawa
I'm afraid I don't agree with the article's logic, as explained in the BTS, that relegates the character's novelization appearance to "ambiguously canonical" status. There is nothing in these combined sources that necessary contradicts anything else. Rather, it's a matter of subsequent sources just not repeating the novel's information. Just because the character doesn't appear in the film or his participation in the race isn't included in Incredible Cross-Sections doesn't mean the novel itself is therefore mutually exclusive. The majority of this information, his novel participation in Boonta Eve specifically, can still be reconciled into the article as canonical.Toprawa and Ralltiir 21:12, March 15, 2011 (UTC)- It is ambiguously canonical becasue sources like the Cross-Sections and the film, which have higher canon-value than the novel, canonized that certain individuals took part in the race and that there were 18 participants, none of whom were Obitoki. As explained, this contradiction with the film and a later source threw his canonicity in question. The only thing that was reconciled by the entry in the CSWE was that he was in a race with Sebulba, who crashed his pod, so I inculded details of the crash from the novel but not the planet or exact date. NaruHina Talk 16:48, March 16, 2011 (UTC)
- Here's a reprint of the CSWE entry SBob provided me with: "Obitoki An alien Podracer who competed against Sebulba during the final years of the Galactic Republic. Sebulba used the heat vents on his Podracer to cut through Obitoki's engines, knocking Obitoki out of the race. Another Podracer, Habba, was also knocked out by flying into Obitoki's debris." NaruHina Talk 16:48, March 16, 2011 (UTC)
- Nothing in the film or CSWE, as far as I'm aware, does anything to support your case, respectfully speaking. If you can show me a source that says, in not so many words, that 18 and only 18 racers participate in the race, and they are all accounted for, not including Obitoki, then you have a point here. If ICS is this source, please cite the evidence for me. Toprawa and Ralltiir 01:42, March 17, 2011 (UTC)
- Per a close paraphrase of the ICS from Hydro: "Eighteen podracers qualify for the Boonta Eve Classic." NaruHina Talk 03:08, March 17, 2011 (UTC)
- Ok, I'm willing to accept this interpretation based on this book. It reads: Eighteen Podracers...qualify for the great Boonta Eve Race. However, I would like to see the BTS reworded some to more effectively clarify this. For example, stating clearly that the Episode I CCS "establishes that only eighteen podracers qualified and competed in the race, of which Obitoki is not included. This article thereby treats the novel as ambiguously canon...etc, etc." Word that the best you can. Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:53, March 22, 2011 (UTC)
- Per a close paraphrase of the ICS from Hydro: "Eighteen podracers qualify for the Boonta Eve Classic." NaruHina Talk
- Nothing in the film or CSWE, as far as I'm aware, does anything to support your case, respectfully speaking. If you can show me a source that says, in not so many words, that 18 and only 18 racers participate in the race, and they are all accounted for, not including Obitoki, then you have a point here. If ICS is this source, please cite the evidence for me. Toprawa and Ralltiir 01:42, March 17, 2011 (UTC)
- Here's a reprint of the CSWE entry SBob provided me with: "Obitoki An alien Podracer who competed against Sebulba during the final years of the Galactic Republic. Sebulba used the heat vents on his Podracer to cut through Obitoki's engines, knocking Obitoki out of the race. Another Podracer, Habba, was also knocked out by flying into Obitoki's debris." NaruHina Talk
- It is ambiguously canonical becasue sources like the Cross-Sections and the film, which have higher canon-value than the novel, canonized that certain individuals took part in the race and that there were 18 participants, none of whom were Obitoki. As explained, this contradiction with the film and a later source threw his canonicity in question. The only thing that was reconciled by the entry in the CSWE was that he was in a race with Sebulba, who crashed his pod, so I inculded details of the crash from the novel but not the planet or exact date. NaruHina Talk
I'm fine with the BTS explanation, but I'm still having trouble with the way the article proper is presenting the Episode I information. The novel is clearly describing Obitoki as racing in the context of the Boonta Eve, yet the article is treating this as though it's some kind of different "ambiguous" race. You're effectively just picking and choosing what information from the novel to present, when it's all part of the same whole. You either have to present all of the Episode I novel info in this situation, or none of it. We can't pretend like maybe the novel is describing a different race other than the Boonta Eve. Specifically, if you're going to exclude any Boonta Eve mention, you can't then source and present the novel information about the oil causing his engine to explode. If that can't be referenced to CSWE, then it needs to be axed completely.Toprawa and Ralltiir 19:56, March 23, 2011 (UTC)The article requires a 1st appearance tag, regardless if the material is ambiguously canonicalAlso, you're sure the Episode I Illustrated Screenplay is an Appearance and not a Source? I'm unfamiliar with the material.Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:53, March 22, 2011 (UTC)- SBob put it there, but he said he wouldn't mind if it was put back under Sources. I think the reasoning for putting it under Appearances is that it does actually tell the story, while a source merely digests the information. I don't feel strongly either way. NaruHina Talk 23:31, March 22, 2011 (UTC)
- That was my reasoning. It's basically the film told in script format, so I don't see how it could be a source. ~ SavageBob 01:04, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
- SBob put it there, but he said he wouldn't mind if it was put back under Sources. I think the reasoning for putting it under Appearances is that it does actually tell the story, while a source merely digests the information. I don't feel strongly either way. NaruHina Talk
For consistency with the Sources, can we use the full CSWE citation template for reference 1?Toprawa and Ralltiir 02:29, March 24, 2011 (UTC)- Done. NaruHina Talk 03:08, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
- The full one, please. Including page number. Toprawa and Ralltiir 03:09, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
- Done. NaruHina Talk
Comments
Approved as a Good article by AgriCorps 02:09, April 3, 2011 (UTC)