Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Lew Brell

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Lew Brell

  • Nominated by: Ayrehead02 (talk) 00:35, November 21, 2013 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments: I know this may be controversial but see the comments.

(4 ACs/1 Users/5 Total)

Support

  1. My concerns have been addressed. I can find no further issues with the article. --Gnarscien (talk) 16:35, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
  2. ACvote Sir Cavalier of OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 23:36, December 29, 2013 (UTC)
  3. ACvote Winterz (talk) 01:34, January 13, 2014 (UTC)
  4. ACvote Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 17:55, January 31, 2014 (UTC)
  5. ACvote IFYLOFD (Enter the Floydome) 02:18, February 7, 2014 (UTC)

Object

Gnarscien

Proposed changes to introduction:

Lew Brell was a male Human who lived on Nal Hutta during the Cold War between the Galactic Republic and the Sith Empire. Brell served the Hutt crime lord, Suudaa Nem'ro, in the industrial town of Jiguuna, before eventually leaving the gang (removed text: "due to the violent work associated with it"). After resigning, he tried and failed to leave the planet. Some time after Lew's resignation, his younger brother, Cam, decided to follow in his footsteps and began working for the Hutt. (removed text: "Lew learned that his brother was pinned down by men working for Voontara Fa'athra, a rival Hutt of Nem'ro's. He then asked an Imperial-aligned individual to fight through Fa'athra's men, offering knowledge and credits in return. The individual discovered that Cam had attempted to flee during the fighting against Fa'athra's forces, but was caught by Rex Geer, Nem'ro's street captain. Geer, who was an old friend of Lew's, paid the individual to leave Cam in his custody to be brought before Nem'ro for punishment. The individual returned to Lew and informed him of his brother's fate, angering him greatly.") (ADDED TEXT:) After sending an individual to rescue Cam from the life of crime, the individual returned without his brother, and he never saw him again.

This change removes the exact details of the predicament without removing the information about it. The exact details are mentioned later in the article in almost exactly the same words, so it seems silly to have them repeated almost ver batim. My proposed change is a more summarized intro, and one more appropriate for an article this size. --Gnarscien (talk) 23:47, November 23, 2013 (UTC)
Ok Reduction made as suggested, although I changed the last sentence as we don't know if he ever saw him again or not. Ayrehead02 (talk) 00:50, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
Perfect. --Gnarscien (talk) 02:52, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

Proposed changes to Biography (or introduction):

I would also strike the following bolded text from the first sentence of the Biography section since it seems extraneous considering it was mentioned in the intro:

During the Cold War between the Galactic Republic and the Sith Empire...

Alternatively, I would delete it in the intro and keep it in the biography, like so:

Lew Brell was a male Human who lived on Nal Hutta during the Cold War between the Galactic Republic and the Sith Empire.

Or you could simply delete both instances of those. If people want to know the factions that fought in the Cold War, they can always click that handy link! ;) But it's also understandable if you'd prefer to keep an instance of it.

--Gnarscien (talk) 03:14, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

We normal have this in the intro and body as it's there as context for the war, just like I give Hutta the context of being a planet in both the intro and body. Ayrehead02 (talk) 13:09, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
Alright. That's fair enough then. Just seemed extraneous to me.
Cav
  • Brell served the Hutt crime lord, Suudaa Nem'ro, in the industrial town of Jiguuna, before eventually leaving the gang. Brell quit the gang, - repitition of leaving the gang here
  • Establish species and sex in the biography.
  • Switching between "Lew" and "Brell" is unnecessary. Brell should be refered to as "Brell" throughout.
    • Changed all to Brell. Ayrehead02 (talk) 11:51, December 17, 2013 (UTC)
  • Third paragraph of the biography is unreferenced. - Sir Cavalier of OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 09:44, December 17, 2013 (UTC)
House Cav's minion
  • Equipment section, if you will sir. Winterz (talk) 01:53, December 24, 2013 (UTC)
Toprawa
  • It's not proper grammar to refer to a singular individual as "they" or "their," which are plural nouns, even though that's how we informally speak. Since we cannot use a pronoun due to the individual's unknown gender, you will need to come up with some inventive ways to write your article to avoid any pronoun use. Whenever you write a TOR article, for example, where the player-character's gender is unspecified, you're going to run into this, so keep this in mind. Please revise all instances in the "game mechanics" section of this article. Once this is completed, I will continue my review.
    • Fixed. Ayrehead02 (talk) 13:08, January 18, 2014 (UTC)
      • You still haven't completely revised this. I'm fixing this for you in this instance in the interest of time rather than going through two or three more rounds of responses, but you're never going to learn this unless you begin to catch and fix them yourself. Please take a moment look at my reviewing changes and pay attention to this in your future articles. If you need to do a word search for every instance of "they," "them," or "their," then that's what you might have to do. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 10:22, January 31, 2014 (UTC)
  • As a reviewing note, please avoid using contractions in formal writing. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 02:37, January 13, 2014 (UTC)
    • Sorry could you give an example so I can fix any instances in this article? Ayrehead02 (talk) 13:08, January 18, 2014 (UTC)
      • This was your original sentence, which I have since revised: "He then spent ten years trying to leave Hutta, but couldn't." Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 04:00, January 23, 2014 (UTC)
        • Ah thank you I'll watch out for it in future. Ayrehead02 (talk) 12:03, January 25, 2014 (UTC)
  • I am unclear on the practice of citing TOR dates, but does this not require the TOR date reference citation template? "In the year 3643 BBY..." Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 10:22, January 31, 2014 (UTC)
El Jefe
  • Same with your last article, could we get a year in the intro?
  • "Brell eventually quit the gang" What gang? Context.
  • Seeing an inconsistency: the intro seems to say that while Brell worked for Nemro he worked in Jiguuna, but in the body Jiguuna isn't introduced until after Brell left the gang. IFYLOFD (Enter the Floydome) 03:22, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

Comments

While I'm aware this article has been receiving a lot of attention recently I've been meaning to come back to it and nominate for a while since I wrote up the main body of it. I realise some users seem to be unhappy with the article but as far as I can tell it's ready to nom especially with all of the different proof reads and such it has recently received. The objections here will hopefully allow an easier discussion of changes that people think need to be made as well, although I'm fully aware this could be done on the talk page, however it doesn't seem to be. Plus once the article passes nominations it will be settled and stop taking up users time. Ayrehead02 (talk) 00:35, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

I still think the article contains too much repeated information. It is a very minor character, so to repeat several times the events of the mission he gives seems wrong. For instance, the fact that Lew left Nem'ro's gang because it was "too bloody and violent" is mentioned three times in the article (four if you include his quote). I could perhaps understand twice, but three times is too many. There are a few more occurrences like this, but no other user seems to agree with me that this is an issue.
Putting that aside, if that repeated information is to be kept, then the run-on sentences that I didn't fix for fear of removing information other users deemed necessary should probably be restructured. My edits were mostly spelling, grammar, and punctuation corrections, but I think the general style of the article definitely needs another look. I realize I am the voice of dissent. --Gnarscien (talk) 04:48, November 21, 2013 (UTC)
So would shortening the intro slightly to remove some of the less important details and then fixing the run-ons satisfy your objections? The intro probably is a little long for an article of this size. When you say the general style what are you referring to? Ayrehead02 (talk) 20:22, November 22, 2013 (UTC)
Simply the run-on sentences and repetition of information. I would definitely advocate shortening the introduction to the more basic information, and leaving the biographical details for the rest of the article. If that's done, I would have no problem supporting the nomination. --Gnarscien (talk) 22:47, November 22, 2013 (UTC)
If you see specific examples, please point them out Gnarscien. I too think the intro could probably lose one, or at most two, sentences. However Gnarscien, please post any objections in the Objection section, not the Comments one. 501st dogma(talk) 23:37, November 23, 2013 (UTC)