Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Gar Stazi

< Wookieepedia:Good article nominations
The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Gar Stazi

(+5)

Support

  1. AdmiralNick22 01:25, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
  2. Yes. This is a Good Article. Toprawa and Ralltiir 00:51, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
  3. Chack Jadson (Talk) 20:37, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
  4. Much improved. Good work, Nick; you should have another go at FA. :) -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 21:50, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
  5. Greyman Jan.png (Talk) 19:16, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Oppose'

  1. Toprawa:
    • Hey, Nick. I'm glad to see you brought this over the GAN page. Here we can mold this thing into a sharp-looking article, and when more issues and more information comes out, you can try for the FA once it reaches 1000 words.
      • What is the total word count, at the moment? AdmiralNick22 03:25, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
        • I'm not sure. Copy your text into MS Word, if you have it. Toprawa and Ralltiir 19:19, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
          • I did a count and it is just over 1000 words. Plus it was grow in length once Legacy #21 comes out next week. So minimum length will no longer be a problem. AdmiralNick22 21:06, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
    • First of all, it's imperative that everything is sourced, the infobox included. Go through the article make sure that all information is properly cited by correct referencing, and that no paragraphs end without a reference tag at the end. Currently, I see 6 paragraphs that do not have complete sourcing.
      • Done. I just sourced the info box, as well as made sure each paragraph ends in a source.AdmiralNick22 03:25, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
    • For cosmetic purposes, all article images should alternate from right to left down the sides of the page. Make sure you move the second image in the body to the right hand side.
    • The succession box at the bottom of the page needs to be completely sourced, just like the infobox. You may wish to refer to other articles to get a sense of how to do this. I personally like the Raith Sienar article. Feel free to use that as a model.
    • Once you finish these items, we can move into sharpening the prose. Toprawa and Ralltiir 02:24, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
      • If you have no objections, I think we can move on to examining the prose. AdmiralNick22 21:06, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
    • We'll go through this a section at a time.
    • You begin off the first section assuming the reader knows who and what Stazi is, apparently relying on what you have in the intro. When you start off the body, pretend the intro doesn't even exist and start out fresh. Describe who Stazi is, what species he is, etc. first, before going into the war.
      • I already say in the first paragraph that "Admiral Stazi was a prominent fleet commander, heading the Galactic Alliance Core Fleet, which was charged with protecting the capital world Coruscant and other key Core Worlds." Isn't that sufficent? AdmiralNick22
    • Explain what the Core Fleet is, what affiliation it has in addition to what you have
      • Same as above. I already refer to it as the "Galactic Alliance Core Fleet" and that it is designed to protect the Core. Not oly is that factual, but that is all we know at this point. AdmiralNick22 03:26, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
    • Elaborate on why Caamas is so important that an attack is being formulated
      • Done. Excellent point, BTW. AdmiralNick22 03:26, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
    • This clause is written as if you have previously explained what happened at the meeting, in which Stazi apparently disagreed with the plan. Elaborate on what happened to back this up: "Still wary of the battle plan proposed by Rear Admiral Piers Petan"
      • Done.
    • If possible, I would like to see a greater explanation of Stazi's role at the Battle of Caamas. And, explain how and why Veed gained this advantage: "Still wary of the battle plan proposed by Rear Admiral Piers Petan"
      • We don't know much about Stazi's exact actions at Caamas at this point, other than that he lead the fighting withdrawal and saved part of the fleet. Until #21 comes out, there is nothing more to add. AdmiralNick22 03:26, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
    • Also, at the end of that paragraph, you end the last two sentences with the same word. Please reword to avoid this.
    • "Legend" seems to imply a favorable, admirable connotation. Did they really feel this way? "His performance at Caamas made him a legend among the Empire"
      • My quote for the "Meeting on the Wheel" section backs this comment up. There is direct dialouge from a Imperial officer that he is a legend. AdmiralNick22 03:26, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
  2. Round Two:
    • Briefly explain what the Alliance remnant is. Is it the remains of the collapsed Alliance over these 7 years? If possible, elaborate on how/why he came into leadership: "By 137 ABY, Stazi lead the Galactic Alliance Remnant."
    • This sentence isn't really saying anything. Is there any way that harassing someone would ever make them less of a threat? "Over time, his attacks proved to make his forces more of a threat to the Sith, rather than less of one"
      • Done. IIRC, that I included that line because it was in 0.5. AdmiralNick22 04:15, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
    • Why is this so? Who was Fel attacking to make things difficult for Stazi? "though supplies were increasingly tight due to similar actions undertaken by Roan Fel's Loyalist forces on Bastion" Toprawa and Ralltiir 03:27, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
      • This one comes directly from #9. The issue doesn't elaborate any more on this other than to say both were competeing for scare resources.AdmiralNick22 04:15, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
        • Would it be possible to say that he was doing this for the benefit of some group? Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:53, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
          • Both Stazi and Fel were doing it for the benefit of their respective forces. If the line is preventing you from supporting the article, I am fine to remove it. :-) AdmiralNick22 02:53, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
            • I like the sentence fine. It's good information, it just needs a little bit more info for clarification. Please add something to say who/what was benefiting by Fel's actions. Toprawa and Ralltiir 03:40, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
  3. Next section
    • This is smidge POV. Simply saying who felt the need to oppose would clean this up nicely. "the need for a more unified opposition to their rule became apparent"
      • Done. Took out the whole sentence and slightly modified the opener. It is cleaner now. AdmiralNick22 14:01, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
    • You don't capitalize "loyalist" here, but do so previously. Please pick one, the correct one, and stick with it for uniformity: "Stazi expressed his reluctance to join Fel's loyalist forces"
    • This sentence really throws off the flow of the article. The previous paragraph ends with saying that they commenced discussions, but then this new paragraph seems to imply that the alliance has already failed. What happened? "However, other factors prevented an alliance between Fel and the GA Remnant"
      • Done. Removed whole sentence to improve flow, per your request. AdmiralNick22 14:01, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
    • Please elaborate on why she is interested in him; also, please explain who Calixte is in greater detail: "Unbeknownst to the Sith, Morrigan Corde, alter ego of Nyna Calixte, also had a vested interest in finding Skywalker."
      • Done. Mentioned her rank, as well as that Cade was her son. AdmiralNick22 14:01, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
    • Without knowing who Calixte is, this sentence doesn't really make sense. Please add a little bit to explain why she is intent on breaking up the meeting: "It was while searching for Skywalker on the Wheel that Calixte discovered the meeting between Stazi and Bovark. After saving Tolin from a gang of criminals, Calixte convinced the Sith agent to work with her to sabotage the conference."
    • Please explain what this is greater detail, other than just advanced technology: "Using advanced technology known as FIDO"
    • I would like to see a little bit more added to this sentence specifying, I must assume, his belief that Fel/Bovark had betrayed him: "Stazi assumed the entire conference was a elaborate Imperial ruse" Toprawa and Ralltiir 06:30, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
      • Done. Added how years on the run and Caamas made Stazi not trust any Imperials. AdmiralNick22 14:16, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
        • Great job addressing the objections so far. Indeed, it is starting to look sharp. Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:18, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
  4. Fourth Section
    • Please provide a little bit more substance to this sentence. If possible, please indicate just how long this new Star Destroyer was: "Under construction at the Mon Calamari Shipyards, the warship was larger and more powerful than the Empire's Pellaeon-class Star Destroyer."
      • Unfotunately, there is no info the Star Destroyer's size. That sentence is literally all we have on the ship. I would leave that sentence as it is until we get more info on the warshi;p. AdmiralNick22 02:10, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
    • Elaborate on what intelligence she provided him: "Rogue Squadron pilot Monia Gahan provided intelligence to Stazi, courtesy of her uncle and longtime friend of Stazi, Gial Gahan."
      • Done. Added the fact that intelligence is on Imperious. AdmiralNick22 02:10, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
    • The rest of that same paragraph is kind of disjointed. Specifically, it seems like the second and third sentences should be switched around. What is his plan? What was the risk to his fleet? "Despite the risk that the operation posed to his fleet, Stazi put into motion his plan to capture the Imperious."
      • Done. I have cleaned it up and clarified my points. AdmiralNick22 02:10, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
    • The mention here of the Alliance commandos is out of place without a previous explanation of their involvement. I'm assuming it would serve best to include them among Gahan's plan in the previous paragraph: "Imperial stormtroopers were ready for both Gahan's sabotage attempt and the Alliance commandos."
      • Done. Edited the previous paragraph to say "commandos. AdmiralNick22 02:10, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
    • In the second and third paragraphs of this section, you include the same referencing twice in each article. This is unnecessary, assuming you truly meant to reference Indomitable, Part I for this information. Just include a single reference tag at the end of the paragraphs.
      • Done. Third paragraph was supposed to be for part 1, not part 2. AdmiralNick22 02:10, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
    • Both this paragraph and the previous begin with the same word, however. Please reword: "However, despite the appearance of an Imperial ambush"
    • Please reword one of these heavy's: "The heavy batteries on the shipyard inflicted heavy damage"
    • The following paragraph largely needs to be rewritten, taking into consideration the following:
      • A few things with this sentence. First, the word disable seems inappropriate, if he was truly intending to destroy it, as I'm inferring from the article. Please choose a better word. Secondly, a bit more substance could be added. Did this further lead Stazi to believe it was ok for him to remain behind, since his job was done? I'm a bit confused "Stazi had already informed Valan of his intention to disable the Mon Cal shipyards, strategically depriving the Empire of their shipbuilding capacity."
        • Done. I have cleaned this paragraph up. AdmiralNick22 03:10, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
      • This sentence is confusing. Who is "he"? What is he "motioning"? "Realizing that Stazi was more than a typical officer, but a living symbol for the Alliance, he motioned to Bey."
      • Who is the Weequay commander? You don't identify anyone as being of the species previously, so this is confusing: "the Weequay commander"
        • Done. I ahve clarifed that Bey is the Weequay. AdmiralNick22 03:10, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
      • When did Yorub become involved? The paragraph begins of explaining how Bey had gone to the bridge to rescue Stazi, with no mention of Yorub. "Mortally wounded, Yorub ordered Bey to take Stazi back to his fighter "
        • Done. I have reworded and cleaned this up. AdmiralNick22 03:10, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
    • Please either reword or remove this weasel word, apparently. He either did or didn't: "he appeared to consider suicide his only option"
    • Was this what Stazi expressed to his men? If so, please specify: "Only once the fleet was ready would there be time to mourn those lost" Toprawa and Ralltiir 01:21, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
      • Done. I added that Stazi in fact said this. AdmiralNick22 03:10, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
  5. Fifth and hopefully final Round (Ding!):
    • Who describes him as such? The author? If no one explicitly states he was wily and determined from an in-universe perspective, just remove the "Described as": "Described as wily and determined"
      • Done. I removed it, as the statement was OOU, made in Legacy #0.5. It now just says "Wily and determined". AdmiralNick22 19:25, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
    • This is kind of speculative and seems like extrapolation. Is there anything else to back up that he was proficient in close-quarters combat? He pulled out a knife and missed his target, which doesn't necessarily equate to proficiency to me: "Stazi also appeared to be proficient in personal combat as well."
      • Done. I see you changed it to appeared, which looks good. AdmiralNick22 19:25, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
        • I didn't make that change. But, "appeared" is the speculation I'm talking about. If you can't find anything else to back up that he was proficient at close-quarters combat, let me know, and I can help you reword this. Toprawa and Ralltiir 21:40, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
          • I will remove the word "appeared". The statement that Stazi was proficent at close quarters combat was added at the reccomendation of AdmirabaleAckbar. The reason for this is because in Legacy #10 Stazi uses a vibroblade he hid in his sleeve to attack Bovark. Is this ok? If not, we can remove it altogether as it is not critical to making the article better. AdmiralNick22 00:00, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
            • Although I recommended it, Toprawa makes a good point, and I'd be happy to lose that bit. Maybe just mention that he carried a weapon or something like that. Sorry for leading you astray :P -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 00:07, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
              • I will remove it. If Stazi displays more skill with a blade in the future, we can add it back in. AdmiralNick22 00:19, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
    • If at all possible, I think adding something about his physical description would be a nice touch to the P&T.
      • This one I may need help on. I cannot think of a way to add this, unless I just restate was is already in the info box. If you can figure out a way to include this, please feel free to add it. Every time I try it comes across as sounding like I am setting him up for online dating. :-p AdmiralNick22 19:25, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
        • Not essential. If there is nothing unique besides the infobox information, disregard. Toprawa and Ralltiir 21:40, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
          • I agree. Lets disregard this. As more is revealed about Stazi's personality, I will make a point to add to the section. AdmiralNick22 00:03, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
    • Something I noticed after going back over the previous section. If the case should be and if appropriate, I would really prefer this to read that they were trapped. Please reword to avoid using "appeared," unless you can word it to say that it appeared that way to someone, specifically? "it appeared that Stazi and his fleet were trapped between the defensive systems on Mon Calamari and Valan's Imperial fleet."
      • Done. Edited line to imply that the Empire thought they had Stazi trapped. AdmiralNick22 19:25, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
    • Going back over the intro, the second and third paragraphs both begin in the similar manner, saying that "Later, he did this..." Please reword one, ideally the second. You might even add a little tidbit explaining that he became of the leader of the Remnant after their collapse following Caamas, or whatever the case may be.
      • Done. I removed the redunant "Later". AdmiralNick22 19:25, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
    • Please order the categories at the bottom of the page in alphabetical order. Toprawa and Ralltiir 04:40, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
      • Done. I think you may of already fixed it, as it is now alphabetical. I think that might do it! AdmiralNick22 19:25, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
        • Not I. I think User:KillerRoboLeia3000 did, an automated bot. Toprawa and Ralltiir 21:40, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
  6. I suspect there is a mistake in that quote. Shouldn't "your" be "you're"? --Eyrezer 03:36, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
  7. From the Bridge of Chack Jadson:
    • Expand the intro. I'll add more comments later. Chack Jadson (Talk) 19:59, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
      • Done. I expanded the intro to mention his command of the Core Fleet before the S-I War. AdmiralNick22 03:26, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
  8. It's rather image light. And when I say that, I mean images of Stazi himself. One image of his flagship is probably enough; I would replace the second one with an image of Stazi himself and add another in the P&T. Also, the intro could be beefed up by another 3-4 lines. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 22:07, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
    • I have added two new Stazi pictures, as well as moved the picture of the breakout at Caamas down a bit. I have also added a bit to the intro. AdmiralNick22 23:01, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
      • Looks much better with the images, though I would replace the one in the P&T with one from Legacy 0 1/2. That's not really an objection though, just a preference. The intro, however, is still a bit short and undetailed for my liking; if you look at some of the other current nominations, they are a few lines longer, and broken up into two paragraphs. I haven't given the article a proper review, but, looking at it at a glance, the level of detail is generally lacking. I would recommend you take a look at some GAs or FAs promoted by good writers (someone like Greyman, Toprawa, Goodwood or Chack) to get a better idea of what I mean. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 20:28, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
        • In regards to extra detail, keep in mind that this character has appeared in a total of three issues so far. There is not that much more to include, but I will try to beef up some of the sections. As for the picture, I don't want to change the main image for Stazi. However, I could put the uncropped version of the main picture in the P&T section. That way we have a full shot of Stazi from head to toe. As for the intro, I will beef that up a bit tonight. Thanks for the advice. AdmiralNick22 00:38, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
          • I've read everything he's appeared in, so I know exactly how much detail should be there. And, just to clarify, I'm talking about detail and not length, in case you were unsure. I'll give you an example: you've got three sentences about how Corde foiled the meeting and Stazi stormed off. What you don't have is how exactly she made their ships fire on each other, that Corde wasn't sent as a saboteur and it was merely coincidence she was there at the same time as them, that Stazi's ship and the guards outside gave him away, that Stazi was going to kill Bovark before Draco entered the room (note that that is just an example, and there's probably more of the same kind of thing before and after). As it is, while the reader can get a basic sense of what's going on, if they haven't read the source material it's all a bit hazy. Same in the last section of the biography. You need to explain exactly what's going on, even if some of it isn't directly related to Stazi himself; it is necessary for proper context. The article needs to be written so that someone who's never heard of Legacy can instantly know exactly what's going on. I'm not saying the level of detail is poor or anything, but it's not enough for me to support the article. I still suggest you read an FA or GA of a character that you know a lot about: Harkas or Kol Skywalker being good examples of Legacy FAs (you could also look at Simus, which is an FA, a character who appears only in a single issue of a comic). The intro looks fine, though if you're gonna push for FA later on I would lengthen it further (but to clarify, that's not an objection here). About the images...it isn't necessary to have the same picture, albeit cropped, twice in this article, as there are plenty of other images available. I'll try to upload the Legacy 0 1/2 one later today and we'll see how that fits. Another thing I've noticed: the BtS should include who created him, when he was first mentioned, when we first saw him, probably which artists have drawn him, and the like, with self-sourcing statements. Also, the Duro admiral thing in the BtS needs to be sourced. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 13:01, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
            • When I get home from work today I will expand upon sections like the Meeting on the Wheel, as well as osme of the others. If you have a chance, please upload the picture of Admiral Stazi with a knife from #10. That would be a good picture for the P&T. I also just sourced the bit about Duro admirals, as well as added info on who created Stazi and who has drawn him. Once I beef up the detail in a few paragraphs I think you will like the article better. AdmiralNick22 13:41, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
              • What you've done there is perfect; exactly what I was looking for. I do have one tiny issue with it, though: you say that "Corde managed to make it appear that Bovark's Imperial shuttle opened fire on Admiral Stazi's shuttle". This should be clarified, as the shuttle did actually open fire, as did Stazi's. Now, I would like you to do something similar with the Battle of Mon Calamari section, and explain how they planned to nab the Star Destroyer, how Gahan got his hands on the codes and what part he was going to play, how Stazi knew it was a trap but decided to go in anyway, et cetra. I'll get on uploading those images right away. You're doing really well on this; keep up the good work! :) -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 19:57, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
    • I've added two images, which I certainly adds to the article. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 20:31, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
      • Thanks for the images, AdmirableAckbar. I have fixed that bit about "appeared to fire". As for the "battle of Mon Calamari", I will expand that section tonight. Then, after #21 comes out tomorrow, I will expand it even further. I have a good feeling we are getting closer to getting this article perfect! I appreciate your help. AdmiralNick22 00:16, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
      • Done. I have expanded the Battle of Mon Calamari section to eplain Gahan's plan. Tomorrow when I get home from work I will add the new info on the outcome of the battle. AdmiralNick22 00:55, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
        • Looks much better. I'm going to be avoiding the article for a while until my Russian friend gets Legacy 21, since they don't really sell comics in my homeland. However, once I've read it, I'll give the article another look and hopefully vote for it. :) -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 21:03, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
          • Thanks. I hope you enjoy the issue. And I also hope you end up voting for the article as well. Thanks again for all your help. :-) AdmiralNick22 02:53, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
            • No problem, Nick. I read Legacy 21 (and liked it) and I'll try to upload an image for the Battle of Calamari section in the next few days. :) -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 16:27, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
  9. Couple of things:
    • The intro should be ordered chronologically, with the Battle of Caamas coming first, then his time in hiding, then the Battle of Calamari. Since the article's a good bit longer now, it might also be prudent to expand it a bit.
    • I would like to see the P&T expanded, particularly with info from Legacy 21.
    • A Talents and abilities section wouldn't go amiss, either. We know he was proficient at unarmed combat and that he was an astute tactician, et cetra. I'd like you to have a go at writing a T&A, but if it is too short it can be merged with the P&T.
      • As we don't have a ton on his talents and abilites, I feel it is better to merge it into the P&T section. I have added the talents you suggested. AdmiralNick22 20:38, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
    • It'd probably be worth mentioning that Valan was tasked with barring Stazi's escape at Caamas, and that if he wasn't so determined to get revenge on Stazi he might've done better at Calamari. Might be worth mentioning that he killed himself after his failure, too.
    • Instead of using "-" to make dashes, please use "—, which produces "—" It just looks much better :) -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 16:27, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
      • I have to run back to work, so if you or some other Wookieepedian can fix the dashes for me, I would appreicate it. :-) AdmiralNick22 20:38, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Comments

  • I was a bit premature in promoting Gar Staiz for featured status. However, thanks to kind and helpful feedback from several posters and Admins, I think that this is the place to start. I have added a few pictures, as well as increased the overall length. I plan to expand on some of the sections over the coming days as well. Please let me know any advice/opinions you have on getting this article to Good and eventually FA status. AdmiralNick22 01:25, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
    • In the future, make sure you place your nominations above the categories section below. (Note: read this in the "editing" view.) Toprawa and Ralltiir 02:28, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
      • Hey guys, I addressed the issues yu brought up about prose. Please let me know if you feel I have met the changes you requested and if you have any more. AdmiralNick22 14:20, 8 March 2008 (UTC) 14:09, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
        • If no one has any more reccomendations, I would appreciate you vote for the article. This has been a great learning experience for me, as it is the first article I have ever nominated AND put this much effort into. :-) AdmiralNick22 20:14, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
          • Well, we are a good bit father along again. Thanks to all of you for your help and advice. Are there any other objections? I am eager to get ole's Stazi a GA. :) AdmiralNick22 00:11, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
            • I meant to look over this days ago, but I've been a bit busy and have forgotten. I'm gonna read over it all again soon, and I'll provide more feedback or else vote. Sorry you're having to wait so long, Nick. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 00:20, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
              • Thanks! I appreciate your continuing help. AdmiralNick22 03:47, 18 March 2008 (UTC)