Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Fraser Kelly

< Wookieepedia:Good article nominations
The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.

Fraser Kelly

  • Nominated by: a CA that's just slid over the wordcount with recent updating —spookywillowwtalk 19:09, March 27, 2019 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments:

(0 ACs/1 Users/1 Total)

Support

  1. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 22:11, April 13, 2019 (UTC)

Object

Toprawa
  • Requesting confirmation that Fraser Kelly is indeed credited by name in Solo, thus validating the Bibliography section. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 18:51, March 29, 2019 (UTC)
    • He is yes, under his role of scrumrat^^ Rearranged the references slightly to cite to the credits, which might help —spookywillowwtalk 19:59, March 29, 2019 (UTC)
  • As we have an Instagram template, it would be best to utilize it in the External links. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 16:27, April 15, 2019 (UTC)
    • Added; couldn't figure out how to work the nobackup function, though, so it ended up rather long.—spookywillowwtalk 19:34, April 15, 2019 (UTC)
  • In many cases in formal writing like this, it's very difficult to objectively make the claim that an actor was "best known" for a particular work, particularly in a case like this where the actor is mostly unknown. You presumably can't objectively source that claim to anything, which means we should be avoiding this type of wording. Therefore, please rephrase this: "...best known for his work in the the films Urban & the Shed Crew and Synchronicity." Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 16:30, April 15, 2019 (UTC)
  • I'm going to repeat this same objection from one of your previous nominations, since it clearly didn't sink in: There's a significant difference between calling someone "British" or "English." People living in England will tell you that they consider themselves to be "English." The term "British" carries a separate connotation, which can refer to anyone within lands belonging to the United Kingdom and former holdings of the British Empire (read the Wikipedia articles on "English people" and "British people" if you haven't already). The point here is that if he's English, then call him that. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 19:13, April 16, 2019 (UTC)
  • Considering that Richard Armitage is also a Star Wars actor, I feel like it's worth dropping in a mention in this article that Kelly co-starred with him in Urban. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 16:51, April 17, 2019 (UTC)
  • Is there a shot anywhere of him in appearing in Solo? That would obviously be more relevant for us to illustrate in our article than his Full Monty image. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 16:55, April 17, 2019 (UTC)
    • It's unclear which of the scrumrats he portrays in the film, and he isn't seen in any of the guides/extra material. I'd considered adding this one and could do if need be just for general context, but we don't know whether he's in it or not.—spookywillowwtalk 17:51, April 17, 2019 (UTC)
      • You're certain? This article claims he has a speaking role and is credited as "Eager Scrumrat." One would think he would be visible speaking on camera in one of the scenes. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 18:23, April 17, 2019 (UTC)
        • Added what I'm fairly certain to be him; sounded like him, through voice comparison to social media and that it's one of two scrumrats with lines. But, there's not a direct cite linking him to that, so let me know if it isn't solid enough to add.—spookywillowwtalk 00:14, April 18, 2019 (UTC)
          • Ok, that image is so bad, you might as well go back to the one you had. I was hoping there would be a clear closeup of him. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 00:40, April 18, 2019 (UTC)
            • Moved back. Shame the scene had such bad lighting.—spookywillowwtalk 02:10, April 18, 2019 (UTC)
  • Judging from his Instagram account, we apparently know that his full name is Fraser Patrick Kelly, which should be reflected in the article. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 00:41, April 18, 2019 (UTC)
  • The article appears to be incomplete. His agency bio page lists a play credit called Yerma, which is not included in this article.
  • These real-world person articles have very little precedent on Wookieepedia, so much of this is trial and error, and we learn as we go. What I'm starting to notice as I review this article is how little detail you actually give for some of his acting appearances, which basically just turns the article body into a boring -- and borderline pointless -- regurgitation of his filmography. For example, you give some moderately interesting details for his role in Urban, by mentioning that he co-starred alongside Richard Armitage while playing a young illiterate boy. But what about The Full Monty, Synchronicity, and Deep Cuts? What roles did he play in those? I'd like to see these details expanded upon. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:37, April 18, 2019 (UTC)
Ecks Dee
  • "He also participated in the production the town hosted just after,[9] Dick Whittington,[6] during January 2019[9] Kelly joined the cast of the United Kingdom revival tour for The Full Monty." I have no idea what this sentence is trying to say. Is there supposed to be a full stop after "January 2019"?
  • "He was happy to return to a tour of the production for the second time." This sentence really stands out right now, breaking the flow of the prose. Per the above objection, if my interpretation is correct, you could probably integrate this entire sentence into the previous one. 1358 (Talk) 23:32, March 29, 2019 (UTC)
Anil
  • I'd like to see Urban & the Shed Crew linked in the article body instead of a quote attribution. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 13:34, March 31, 2019 (UTC)
    • Ended up removing it altogether; the film itself doesn't have an article, just the book it was based off of.—spookywillowwtalk 16:11, March 31, 2019 (UTC)
  • Also, that Wikipedia link leads to an article for a non-fiction book, not a drama film. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 13:35, March 31, 2019 (UTC)
  • I think the same goes for most of the Wikipedia links in the article. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 17:59, March 31, 2019 (UTC)
  • Solo's full release date cannot be sourced to the film itself. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 11:13, April 1, 2019 (UTC)
    • Hm. Took the SW one from the main film page, should be good.—spookywillowwtalk
      • Although the archive link works fine, I'd like to have a link that is still available. I've replaced it with another link, if you don't mind. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 22:05, April 1, 2019 (UTC)
QGJ
  • I'd like some more context for The Full Monty. Mainly what genre it was, and the fact that it was based on a film with the same name.
  • What exactly did he not realize? That it was an action film? That it was a sci-fi film? Or, specifically, that it was a part of the Star Wars franchise? In 2017, Kelly auditioned for a role in Solo: A Star Wars Story, not realizing what film it was.
    • Hm, clarified the wording there; is that better? Essentially, he just auditioned and had no clue what it was for.—spookywillowwtalk 20:42, April 4, 2019 (UTC)
  • Can you add some more details regarding his appearance as a scrumrat? Like, at what part of the film did he appear? Did he have speaking lines? Was he credited? Kelly and his mother traveled to Pinewood Studios[2] to film his part as a scrumrat. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 12:36, April 4, 2019 (UTC)
    • Added his crediting; there's nothing entirely citable in terms of where exactly he appeared, I assume it was in the scrumrat scene at the beginning-ish, but it's not provable; partially due to how dark it was and faces being not on-cam. Couldn't pinpoint whether his lines are still there in the finished film (they did cut a bit in Solo with the director switch). I can amend it to include that he technically did record some lines, if need be, but it sounded a little awkward when I was messing with it.—spookywillowwtalk 20:42, April 4, 2019 (UTC)
      • Whether those lines were kept in or not is another deal. If you can't tell for sure that he has lines in the finished cut in the film, there's no need to speculate. But if there's verifiable info that he had lines recorded for the film, that should definitely be mentioned somehow. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 10:33, April 9, 2019 (UTC)
        • Gotcha. Tweaked to match the cited article.—spookywillowwtalk 22:01, April 9, 2019 (UTC)

Comments

  • I’d like to preemptively ask for this to be taken down, per the OOU changes coming from the Mofference. It’ll fall below GA length once I alter it, but thanks everyone for their reviews!—spookywillowwtalk 23:03, May 25, 2019 (UTC)