Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Darth Nihilus (second nomination)

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.

Darth Nihilus

  • Nominated by: NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 02:25, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments: Thanks to Cylka for the inspiration and information. Lets make this the first Restored GA!

(2 ACs/8 Users/10 Total)

Support

  1. Cylka-talk- 07:21, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
  2. ACvote Chack Jadson (Talk) 13:54, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
  3. SoresuMakashi(Everything I tell you is a lie) 05:22, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
  4. JethLordMaster (Talk) 07:00, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
  5. ACvote A good romp with the FAN would do this some real justice, methinks.—Tommy9281Dark Side Master TotG (Peace is a lie) 15:15, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
  6. Goodwood Redstarbird (Alliance Intelligence) 23:57, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
  7. Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:43, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
  8. Kilson likes PIE Nice job, very well done. 16:50, 06 February , 2009 (UTC)
  9. Dark Lord Trayus 03:27, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
  10. --Darth tom Imperial Emblem (Imperial Intelligence) 22:14, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Object

  1. The BtS is a bit all over the place. Please subsection it as appropriate and break it into proper paragraphs; it looks a bit triviaish at the moment. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 12:23, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
    • I think I fixed it. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 19:13, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
  2. Cylka:
    • The Trayus Academy kept on producing legions of Sith Lords, Assassins and Marauders, who spread death and the following of the dark side like a disease. What does "the following of the dark side" mean? Please clarify.
    • As it neared the Miraluka colonized world Katarr, Nihilus spoke, obliterating Katarr How did him speaking obliterate Katarr? Please clarify. Maybe you could add in something to the effect that the Miraluka could hear him through the Force and that his "voice" in the Force was his hunger, therefore hearing him=death.
    • [...]the Dark Lord seemed too strong to defeat, then the Exile learned of his weakness and turned the tide. Visas also entered into a trance and tried to disrupt the link with her former Master, undermining his connection to the Force. This makes it sound like they both were in a trance, although I'm pretty sure only Visas was in a trance. Please reword.
    • With Traya gone, the Sith were left with no defined leadership and many factions arose, all seeking to take what little remained of Revan's Sith Empire. However, Nihilus and Sion were now the leaders of the Sith. These statements appear to contradict each other. I know what you mean, but others may not. Reword to say that they became the leaders because they got rid of Traya.
    • Give an actual date for the conclave and destruction of Katarr. I actually found a definitive source for the date; I changed all the articles to reflect this. You can find it there. * Cylka * 11:21, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Good job with adding a lot of info to the article. * Cylka * 02:40, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
  3. Soresu
    • it killed all but a few of those who were crushed on the planet's surface. This does not make sense. It sounds as if it killed almost everyone, and then the survivors were crushed.
    • Using the Force, he was able to keep his robes, armor and mask together, giving him some form, allowing him to use his Force powers and wield a lightsaber, but apart from that he had no longer a physical form and he became simple primitive intention. Break this sentence up.
    • I would suggest integrating the third paragraph of 'Encounter with Visas Marr' with the second. This is so you can say that the conclave was the original reason why Nihilus had come to the planet. You should probably add the intentional info leak by Atris and that it was meant to be a trap for him. I'll take a look at the rest in a few hours. SoresuMakashi(Everything I tell you is a lie) 22:11, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
    • The 'Downfall' section is out of chronology. Please put it into the correct order of events.
      • Done NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 10:50, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
      • Sorry about not getting this stuff last night (I had a blackout while writing), but the second and third paragraphs are still not in order. For example, the disturbance in the Force, Visas' joining the Exile, and the end of the Onderon Civil War all occurred after the destruction of the mining facility. SoresuMakashi(Everything I tell you is a lie) 22:01, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
        • I'm not seeing where it is out of chronology. Could you please quote where you see it. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 11:47, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
          • Nevermind, reading at 3:30AM does things to the mind. I think I fixed it.
    • The hunger he possessed was a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it caused the closer he came to it. Reword. Also, what was he coming closer to? SoresuMakashi(Everything I tell you is a lie) 03:06, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
      • No clue there. Removed. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 08:31, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
  4. Chack Attack:
    • "Under the tutelage of Darth Traya he became one of the three Dark Lords of the Sith at the time, the Sith Triumvirate, under the title of the Lord of Hunger, the others being Traya and Darth Sion." This is phrased a bit poorly.
    • "An emptiness swept over his body and it soon began hungering. Without meaning to, he drained the life of someone; it was an unpleasant experience, but for a brief moment the hunger ceased, only to come back more relentless than before." This should also be rephrased.
      • I'm not sure of how I could rephrase it and people in the IRC think its fine. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 23:29, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
        • Right, don't worry about it then.
    • "his voice a great hunger heard" Can you hear hunger? :P Seriosuly, I know what you're trying to say, but it could written better here.
    • "The situation on Onderon got out of hand" Too colloquial.
      • A two birds with one stone fix. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 23:43, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
    • "learned of his weakness" What was his weakness?
    • Very good job. I'd suggest taking this to FA when it passes GA (only if you feel you're ready, of course). Chack Jadson (Talk) 21:36, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
  5. Please rework the beginning a little bit. We shouldn't be saying things like "all that is known of Nihilus' beginning" because this is out-of-universe. You could alter that to reflect the knowledge of the characters in-universe. You should also contextify/link the Exile upon her first mention in the bio. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 15:31, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
    • I already linked/contextified her in the Downfall section. "The Jedi Exile[link] returned to Republic space after being banished from the Jedi Order for following Revan to the Mandalorian Wars. She had begun to reestablish her connection to the Force which was severed during the Battle of Malachor V."
      • But that occurs after "when the Exile gave the order to activate the Mass Shadow Generator," which is her first mention. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 16:11, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
    • Did I fix the lead-in right? NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 04:15, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
  6. Toprawa:
    • Sourcing needs some serious clean up before I'm going to let this thing pass, and I really have no qualms about expressing my dissatisfaction with the level of review by our AC members here. Please eliminate the unnecessary redundant sourcing in the biography. Toprawa and Ralltiir 23:43, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
      • I disagree with you on the sourcing; but for the sake of the nom, I fixed it. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 04:15, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
        • I'm not sure what there is to disagree about it. An article is either sourced correctly, or it isn't, and this one wasn't. Fortunately, you have corrected this. Toprawa and Ralltiir 04:22, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
  7. Pasta Bowl; part the first…
    • More aesthetic than anything else, but there is no image of Nihilus from TSL in the article. None. Surely a screen shot can be taken. One of Nihilus and Marr together would be extremely beneficial to readers since their paths are so intertwined.
      • I will work on getting another but the image at the end of the Biography is from TSL. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 01:25, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
    • Be careful with the flow in the Introduction. It is choppy with a lot of short finite sentences. I tried to clean it up, but it needs some work in the prose to make it smooth and fluid.
      • Done? NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 01:25, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
        • I see what you did. Okay, a few things.
          • "After losing everything… after surviving…" Both 'afters' make it awkward.
          • "he turned to the dark side…" Was he a Jedi? Otherwise, turning would imply that.
          • "The apprentices became more and more powerful." This seems just dropped in. There is nothing before that states an apprenticeship aside from "tutelage." The triumvirate, however, implies equality rather than a Master-Apprentice relationship. Additionally, it is so disconnected from the discussion of Nihilus and Traya that no real link can be formed. This connection and the associated wording needs to be reworked and rewritten. It needs to be as clear as possible for the reader to know when he was an apprentice, when he was an equal, and when he overpowered his former master.
            • This is only partially cleaned up. "…encase his spirit within his mask and armor. The apprentices grew in strength during their training; eventually overpowering and exiled their Master, severing her ties to the Force." Note the disjunction between the sentences. It is also disjunctive at the semicolon, which is also improperly used, here. — Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 00:30, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
              • I think I got it this time. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 14:24, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
          • Similarly, the sentences about his "hunger" and experiences with the mass shadow generator should be mentioned with the Malachor remarks.
            • Addressed. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 08:56, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
              • Okay, so this one was moved, but the connectivity was breached. "…the affliction began to ravage his body. He then came under the apprenticeship…" Awkward transition, please rectify. Perhaps mention him being "found" might help. — Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 00:30, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
                • I think I smoothed it out. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 14:45, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
    • I split the first paragraph of the biography. Make certain the reference at the split point is still correct.
      • They are still correct. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 22:10, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
    • The second paragraph of the biography merely states that he was trained by Traya, but after it is stated that he was "christened" as a Sith Lord. Firstly, was he ever apprenticed by Traya? The Intro and infobox states that he was in a Master-Apprentice relationship, but this paragraph does not. Secondly, was he instantaneously found and then "christened" as a Sith Lord? There is a strong disconnect along the time line. Please clarify this paragraph and expand.
      • Addressed. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 01:25, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
        • Better, but a couple of things:
          • "He followed her there, to her school on Malachor, and learned the ways of the Sith." Isn't he already on Malachor, or is that not known?
          • "Time passed and he was eventually a newly christened…" the eventually...newly part that throws me off. Also, "christened" is an awkward word for being given a title; can that be reworked while we are at it? Or, is that a canon word that I am not remembering?
            • Much better here; although, instances of "christened" still exist in the article. Additionally, I do not believe the phrase "Nihilus was named a Sith Lord during this conflict…" comes from information within TSL. Is there someplace else, or am I missing something? I could be incorrect. Please double check for me. — Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 00:30, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
              • I'm not seeing any, though it is early in the morning, but christened is a canon word for it. Its in the KotOR CG. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 14:45, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
          • "Nihilus and Sion each honed different teachings of the dark side of the Force…" Different teachings or aspects/skills/etc.? Just checking.
    • "His power grew beyond what Traya could match and he allied himself with Darth Sion to challenge her, defeating the woman." Where? When? Expand. It is a significant character-development point in TSL.
      • Expanded. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 06:15, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
        • Quickie: "Nihilus allied himself with Darth Sion to challenge Traya, defeating the woman at the center of her own Academy in the very heart of Malachor V itself." What was the challenge? How did he defeat her?
          • Addressed and as to the second part, thats in there, Sion beat her to a bloody pulp and they sapped her Force energy. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 09:12, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
    • "With Traya gone, the Sith were left with no defined leadership and many factions arose…" Wait… where did these beings come from? Although not stated, it is implied earlier in the article that the Triumvirate was alone. Clarify.
      • Clarified. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 06:15, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
        • Sorry, but I do not believe it is. The paragraph prior to this might be a place to mention that the Sith Empire had fallen and various factions and followers existed. It is your choice, but all of a sudden a three-being group is now a broken and tattered empire as it reads now.
          • Fixed? NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 22:10, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
            • Better, but there are two things another thing with this:
              • "Nihilus and Sion, having been the ones who defeated Traya, took control of the fractured Sith, those who followed Traya but now wanted her power for themselves, and focused the groups on a common goal: the elimination of the Jedi Order." The last half of this—from "those," onward—makes little sense. First off, the sentence needs to be broken up, it is a long run-on. Next, who are "those?" Are they Nihilus and Sion? Are they other Sith minions who did Traya's bidding? Clarify. In fact, please rework this entire sentence. — Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 00:30, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
              • Break up the paragraph at "With Traya gone…" — Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 00:30, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
    • "Nihilus and Sion, having been the ones who defeated Traya, took control of the fractured Sith and focused the groups on a common goal: the elimination of the Jedi Order." Did they work together directly, or indirectly? Their goals in eliminating the Jedi Order seem to have been different.
    • The subheading "Dark Lord of the Sith" seems out of place considering that his "christening" as such is mentioned paragraphs before and already expanded upon. Change divisions or the subheading title.
      • Fixed. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 04:20, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
        • Much, much better.
    • "With Traya overthrown, Nihilus had moved into a position of power. The Trayus Academy continued producing legions of Sith Lords, Assassins and Marauders." Disjunctive. What is the relationship between Nihilus and the Academy? If nothing, the first sentence is an unnecessary redundancy, and the next couple need to be reworked into Nihilus's scheme to show a connection.
      • Contextified that he attended the academy. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 05:56, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
        • Okay, but that does not help in this instance. That is too far away to be the explanation. It is a good setup for an explanation, however. Did Nihilus or Sion officially take over the Academy? How was it run? What happened? Otherwise, this is irrelevant information for this location in the article.
          • Fixed. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 03:47, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
            • Better. Again, however, please double check the source. I do not believe all that information is in TSL. In fact, this one I am pretty certain of. — Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 00:30, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
    • In conjunction with the above: "They spread death throughout the galaxy like a disease…" Is it described "like a disease" in TSL or the CG? If not, remove it; it borders on OR and is not NPoV.
    • Continuing the conjunction: "What they experienced first hand in his wake allowed them to become stronger near Force-sensitives, and feel their prey through the Force." This does not make sense. Reword, please.
      • Fixed NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 02:06, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
        • "…allowed them to become stronger near other Force-sensitives…" Contextualize or expand "stronger."
        • "…and feel their targets through the Force across great distances." I think I understand what is being explained, but it is too cumbersome as it stands right now. I am not sure why, but I am having a difficult time with this clause.
    • "His flagship, the Ravager, roamed the borders of known space." Okay. And? This sentence, aside from beginning a paragraph with a pronoun, has no relation to the paragraph it is heading. Connect and remove the pronoun or eliminate altogether. The Ravager should probably be mentioned and sourced when he pulls ships from Malachor V.
      • Removed an fixed. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 16:09, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
    • "Atris, a Jedi Master, organized a large gathering of Jedi on the Miraluka colony world Katarr. After organizing the event, she then leaked the location." I reworded it to flow better, but it needs to be stated why she leaked the event.
    • "It overpowered them and obliterated the surface of Katarr…" What is "it?" His voice? His hunger?
    • "Nihilus killed much of what remained of the Jedi Order…" So basically, no one was left? Make sure that the amount implied is actually stated in the sources.
    • "…including the renowned Jedi Zhar Lestin, Dorak and Vandar Tokare." "Renowned" is not a word I would use here. It is PoV-laden and should be tempered. Also, any other figures present that should be noted?
      • Fixed and no, there's not, its almost like the Golden Globes, and aside from that, I thought three would be a good number as to not disrupt the flow. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 01:25, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
        • Sorry, I don't follow. What does the Golden Globes have to do with the Conclave gathering? I don't follow.
    • "As he walked on the surface, Darth Nihilus found only a single living thing, an injured woman named Visas Marr." The wording of this implies that she happened to survive; although a couple sentences later states outright that she had been spared. Clarify this.
      • Fixed. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 02:06, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
        • In TSL, she remarks that she was spared. This should be addressed here.
    • Throughout the article, Visas Marr is referred to simply as "Visas." This is not a proper encyclopedic naming convention unless there are two with the same last name. I know she is referred to as Visas in TSL, but they are on a first name basis, just like talking to "Canderous," or "Atton," or anyone else. Please change these appearances.
      • I fixed all that I could find. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 03:19, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
        • I went through and fixed them. The BtS was riddled with them.
    • "…and carved out the flesh where her eyes would be had she been human." Well, she is not Human. This analogy seems a bit of a stretch. Please find another way to describe it using a Miraluka-based description rather than that of another species.
    • "She eventually became his trusted sole apprentice; she even developed a powerful Force bond with her Master." Choppy, please reword, expand, and make more fluid.
    • Before I forget, the date in the infobox does not come from TSL, as no year is mentioned in the game. Please find a source. There are a few to chose from.
      • The NEC came through for once. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 09:28, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
    • So far, I've read up to "Downfall," but I think I will stop there for now. Good luck.
    • — Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 18:56, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
  8. Pasta bowl, part the second:
    • There was still one outstanding objection from above. To make it easy, I'm reposting it here: The first paragraph of 1.2.1 (Encounter with Marr), I believe, does not all come from TSL. Please double check that for me.
      • I think that was said in TSL but I'm not 100% sure anymore. I've taken out the things I'm not sure of. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 13:28, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
        • If this information is true, it is useful to his biography. Please double check other sources so that the article is comprehensive. — Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 03:19, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
          • Checked. Wasn't there. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 12:18, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
    • "At this point, Nihilus's next move…" What is "this" point? Contextify and clarify.
    • "The Jedi Exile returned to Republic space…" This paragraph needs to start with a transition phrase.
    • "In a turn of events, the Peragus Mining Facility was destroyed, restoration efforts throughout the Outer Rim were doomed, and secessionist movements on planets such as Onderon got out of hand." A few things:
      • "In a turn of events" is awkward here. It implies that Atris could no longer control or manipulate what was happening. While this may be the case, it does not seem to quite fit.
        • Fixed NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 14:52, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
          • Rendered defunct.
      • "… the Peragus Mining Facility was destroyed, restoration efforts throughout the Outer Rim were doomed, etc." The current set up indicates that the incident on Peragus was just one of the events, not a prompter of those events. Peragus prompted Telos. Please reword to clarify. Also, "doomed" is PoV.
        • Fixed NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 14:52, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
          • Rendered defunct.
      • "Restoration efforts" does not seem correct, to me. Telos was the only restoration effort mentioned in TSL, and it is the only one that is mentioned as active since it was a pilot program. If I am missing something, please clarify this. If not, please fix it, because it is a blanket statement that is considered OR.
      • Same thing for "secessionist movements." Also, "got out of hand" is PoV.
    • "When the Exile defeated Marr instead, the Miraluka began to question her conclusions of what her master once showed her and was swayed to serve the Exile against the slayer of her people." I already separated this from another sentence, but please break this up again so it is less of a run-on.
    • "Nihilus's plans for Onderon failed…" Ok, so we are back at Onderon now. Just from what I have read in this section, thus far, it needs to be organized better. We start at Onderon, then jump to the Exile in a disjunctive fashion, then reintroduce Nihilus backhandedly, then jump back to Onderon. Either all of the Onderon stuff should be together or the progression needs to be smoothed over substantially. While the first option pulls apart the chronology a bit, it could be very effective. The latter option allows for a preservation of the chronology, but will take some work to keep things flowing. Basically, the ideas should not come to an abrupt halt at the end of every paragraph. Sometimes there is no way around that, but, in this case, I do not believe it is necessary to have such abrupt changes.
      • I chose the former and I think it works well. 05:37, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
    • "Nihilus's plans for Onderon failed when the Exile stopped the Onderon Civil War." She singlehandedly stopped the civil war? Maybe "intervened" would be better.
    • "When a detachment of Sith were dispatched to Iziz from the nearby moon of Dxun, they were still unaware of the presence of a base that Nihilus had established in Freedon Nadd's tomb; the Sith had stayed clear of Mandalorian patrols even though they were very close to the Mandalorian Outpost." A few things:
      • First, all of a sudden there are Sith on Dxun? What's Dxun have to do with it? What were those Sith there for? Contextify.
        • Done NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 05:59, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
          • Still needs work. The Freedon Nadd's tomb, now referenced as "Nihilus's base" has no earlier context or predication. This is an important thing to mention. I know it was trimmed out based upon Acky's objection below. I am not disagreeing with him; rather, I am saying to include the relevant information in a manner that is not a play-by-play of the game, and in the proper chronological frame, not the order it was necessarily revealed in the game. — Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 03:19, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
            • Is this the kind of thing you want? NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 07:35, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
          • Also, sentence before indicates that Mandalore and his people were living on Onderon, and not Dxun. Please correct this. — Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 03:19, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
      • Next, who is "they" (after Dxun)?
      • "…the presence of a base…" Context now arrives, but it is too late. The paragraph at the beginning of Downfall, which describes Nihilus setting up his Onderon scheme is too short. The context should be there. It would greatly enhance that paragraph and allow for a just a short one-or-two word reference here to refresh our memory.
      • Then, the semicolon is used wrongly here. It would be better to just cut the sentence.
      • "The Sith had stayed clear of Mandalorian patrols…" Wait, there are Mandalorians, now? Context. It would be good to mention the presence of Mandos on Dxun when it talks about the Exile joining forces with them. After all, that is where the bargain was reached.
        • Done NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 05:59, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
          • Again, dovetailing off of the previous standing objections. — Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 03:19, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
            • I'm still not completely satisfied with this one, but I'll address it again in the next part.
    • "When Kreia recognized a greater threat than what seemed to be merely a staging base, the Exile took action against it." The part that does not quite make sense to me is "than what seemed to be merely a staging base." Please clarify this.
    • "Meanwhile, the Exile, Kreia, and a third companion headed to Iziz to support Queen Talia and keep Onderon in the Republic." I thought the third companion had to be Mandalore. I could be wrong on this, so please double check. Thanks.
      • No, Mandalore could be sent to Dxun as well, In fact, Kreia says its a good idea to take him there. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 06:01, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
        • I would not even mention Kreia, then. If the third companion is player-chosen and Kreia is not mentioned in the paragraph (or, what should be the paragraph), then simply stated "Exile and two companions" as the remark. To help codify Kreia's unnecessary mention, please split the paragraph at "afterwards." — Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 03:19, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
        • Dovetailing with this: The Exile can convince Talia to permit Vaklu to at least stand trial. I believe this is the light-sided choice. So, correct that sentence accordingly. Additionally, play down this information as passing for link purposes. Condense. — Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 03:19, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
    • "There, Sith Lords and Dark Jedi had joined the separatists and were marching to the Iziz Royal Palace, accompanied by Sith wranglers and their huge beasts. Vaklu was stopped, and Colonel Tobin became part of Kreia's deception to draw out Darth Nihilus." Okay. A couple of things:
      • First, the two sentences are disjunctive. A lot is missing from here. "Valku was stopped" explains nothing. A sentence or two (plus a link) about the Second Battle of Onderon would be very useful here.
      • Then, expand slightly upon Kreia's plan to use Tobin as a pawn. (A lot of pawning and manipulating is happening at this time, and it would be beneficial to make certain the readers know who is manipulating who.)
    • "…she told Tobin that it was there that the Jedi were hiding." What's so special about Telos, then? Jedi were hiding all over the galaxy.
    • "When Nihilus and his fleet arrived near the planet, Republic Admiral Carth Onasi, aboard his flagship, the Sojourn, engaged them in conjunction a group of Mandalorians in the Battle of Telos IV." This needs to be reworded and contextified. Why were the Mandos there? Who allied with who? Anyone else present? Was the battle entirely in space? What role did the Exile have in setting it up? Kreia? etc.
      • How's this? NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 00:40, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
        • "When Nihilus and his fleet arrived near the planet, the Republic Navy was there to meet him, working with Canderous Ordo's Mandalorians who were there to assist the Exile and their Mandalore, starting the Battle of Telos IV." Reword this and, if necessary, break it up so it is clear and flows better. — Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 03:19, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
    • "Realizing that he had been betrayed, Nihilus had no choice but to feed upon Telos anyway, or his hunger would have consumed him." Does he actually realize his betrayal, or is he more intent on feeding than anything else? Clarify.
    • "Nihilus's ship was assaulted and boarded by the Mandalorians, and the Mandalore accompanied both the Exile and Visas Marr on their fight to the bridge of the ship and to the final confrontation with Nihilus." First, was this part of the plan? A couple words of context would help. Next, this sentence is a run-on. Break it up, into at least two sentences.
      • Fixed? NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 00:04, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
        • I cannot seem to find the changes. — Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 03:19, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
          • "Nihilus's ship was assaulted and boarded by the Mandalorians in a coordinated final strike against Nihilus. The Mandalore led his troops to and aboard the Ravager, while covered by the Republic forces, to assist the Exile and Visas Marr in their fight to the bridge of the ship." NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 05:12, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
    • "Twisted by the dark side from exposure to Nihilus's dark powers in the time since Kreia saved him, he agreed to help the Mandalorians detonate the charges after he realized that it would only be a matter of time until Onderon would meet the same fate as Telos if Nihilus was to succeed." Run-on.
    • "Before the final confrontation, Marr had a chance to visit her old meditation chamber, stopping to meditate for a moment and finally coming to terms with the destruction of her homeworld, forsaking vengeance and fully embracing the light side of the Force." Run-on.
    • "During the final showdown with Nihilus, the Exile, whose tie to the Force had previously been severed and whose leech-like nature was of the same nature as Nihilus's, could not be consumed by him, so when he tried, he exhausted himself and was made vulnerable." Run-on and very convoluted.
    • "They engaged in a quick fight, with the Dark Lord seemingly too strong to defeat, then the Exile learned of his aversion to her and turned the tide." Run-on.
    • "Marr entered a trance and tried to disrupt the link with her former Master, undermining his connection to the Force." This sentence does not quite make sense. I think you are referring to their Force bond, but I am not certain.
    • "The three of them managed to defeat him and escape the vessel's destruction, but before making for the orbital shuttle they used to board the ship, his mask was removed by Marr, who wanted to see the face of the one who had wounded her." Run-on. Also, do not use "managed" for this. It implies that it was an impossible upset and is passive.
    • "The Sith lived on after the fall of the Sith Triumvirate." It would be beneficial to contextify this since Nihilus was not the only member of the Triumvirate.
    • "At some point during his life, Darth Nihilus created a holocron that eventually fell into the hands of Darth Krayt several millennia later after the Sith had reclaimed the galaxy for the first time since the fall of the Galactic Empire." Run-on.
    • In the sentence about the holocrons, it would be better to link directly to the holocron instead of the dark lords.
    • "The only response he received from Nihilus was a statement in the Sith Lord's peculiar language, which his comrades didn't bother to translate." Contraction-alert? Also, 'did not bother to' is too idiomatic for this type of writing.
    • So you know, I have broken a lot of run-on sentences up since reviewing began. Please be aware of this as you are writing and doing a copy edit. Also, there were a some spelling and minor grammar mistakes in some of the earlier corrections which have been fixed. Take your time with these objections and do not rush through them. It is better to take a little longer and to do the best job possible the first time. The article is on its way, with the biography now done with the first run through. It has a lot of promise, Naru, so do not be discouraged. At the same time, keep a watchful eye out for details such as lacking context or runon sentences. — Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 16:44, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
      • I also echo Acky's remarks below. In some cases, the information itself is not bad, rather it is the presentation that is found wanting. Context can be given without offering a play-by-play of the game. Once the outstanding objections are addressed, we will go back through the biography and hash it out again to clean up loose ends. — Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 03:19, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
  9. Remember you're not writing a summary of the game. Things like "Just before the Exile's return to Republic space, Nihilus allied himself with General Vaklu" and "When Nihilus and his fleet arrived near the planet, Republic Admiral Carth Onasi, aboard his flagship, the Sojourn" and "was healed by Kreia who told him that she was a Vakluist and instructed him to inform Nihilus of an active Jedi Academy on Telos IV" don't read like they're from Nihilus's bio. It should be like "Nihilus was informed of the message, and then took the Ravager to Telos." The penultimate paragraph in that section is an offender. It looks like a summary. "Before the final confrontation" - later events shouldn't be mentioned like that, unless it's the Battle of Yavin or somesuch. There's loads of extraneous information there - Visas visiting the chamber isn't relevant to Nihilus, and if it is, the article needs to convey that. "During the final showdown with Nihilus, the Exile's leech-like nature, due to her tie to the Force being cut at the end of the Battle of Malachor V, that was of the same nature as Nihilus's could not be consumed by him" could be clarified/broken up. Be careful when using pronouns; sometimes it's unclear who or what's being referred to. E.g. "When Nihilus and his fleet arrived near the planet" (last planet mentioned was Malachor, in previous sentence) and "Though he realized too late that there were no Force-sensitives in the Academy, his hunger drove him to still try to absorb Telos anyway or it would consume the Sith Lord" (last two people mentioned were Carth and Mandalore). -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 00:16, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
    • I've read through the entire article again and I believe I have corrected these. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 04:20, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
  10. Pasta bowl part the third (aka Biology redux):
    • First off, a word on why we are going through this again. There were many changes that were made and now continuity and context needs to be addressed. The other sections will fall into place once the bio is set. This includes, especially, the introduction as it should mirror the bio. Also, the P&T and P&A would be enhanced by the solid nature of the bio. This is going to be done in segments With that in mind, I quote Mario: "Here we go!"
    • "Nihilus survived the Mandalorian Wars…" Context? Mandalorian Wars? Survived?
    • "In his grief, the man assumed a dark persona on Malachor V…" Malachor? Context arrives in the next sentences and that is too late.
    • "Without meaning to, he drained the life-force of another survivor; it was an unpleasant experience, but for a brief moment the hunger ceased." Please, do not use the semicolon here. Separate the sentences and fix the lead in to the second one.
    • "Nihilus was eventually discovered by Darth Traya…" I know there is not a lot of context that could be added, but some qualifying context is needed about this individual.
      • There is not much known about her at this point aside that she was DLotS. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 01:16, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
    • "Nihilus and Sion each honed different aspects and skills of the dark side of the Force, until the three joined in the creation of a Sith Triumvirate, styling themselves with unique titles."
      • Okay. First, something should be mentioned before this point when Nihilus becomes "Nihilus." If it not at this point, because he is not a Sith Lord, then it should be mentioned as such.
      • Next, is Sion mentioned by "Sion" at this point? When was he given such a name? I ask because it effects how you introduce him. He should not be mentioned by "Sion" until after the giving of names.
      • Third, this sentence needs to be broken apart—if not rewritten.
    • "…"taught him how to harness it…" What is "it?"
    • "His power and desire for more power grew beyond what Traya could match." Awkward wording. Please fix.
    • "Nihilus allied himself with Sion to challenge Traya, defeating the woman at the center of her own Academy…" This is really nitpicky, but "woman"—implying Human female—has no context in the bio to this point for Traya.
      • Contexted at her first mention. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 01:16, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
    • "Sion and Nihilus entered the core from two separate doors and closed in on Kreia while igniting their lightsabers, Kreia followed suit by igniting hers." Wait. Now she is known as Kreia? Fix.
    • The phrase "only a few feet away" is not canonical. First off, meters and the derivatives are used in the SW universe. Secondly, the idiom does not seem to work here. Try to rephrase this.
    • "Meekly, Traya attempted to reach her lightsaber, which was only a few feet away from her. She tried through the Force but failed when Sion stooped over her, grabbed her face, and stood, Traya still within his grip. He proceeded to slam her head into the tooth then punched and kneed her before slamming her to the ground." This is too detailed to be apart of the Nihilus article. Try to summarize this into something a little more compact and relevant to Nihilus. As it stands right now, its just going through the recanting of game scenes which is not necessary here. Basically, I do not see a need for the mentioning of stooping, grabbing, standing, slamming, etc. with such detail.
    • Okay. Let's stop there. I am going to go through this run through more methodically so that we do not miss something in the stream of bullet points. — Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 02:30, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Comments

Remove nomination (AgriCorps vote only)

  1. ACvote Sure, there has been activity on this as recently as April 2, but there have been no responses to things left back in March, even. This has been here since before Christmas and I believe that it should not sit here any longer. Graestan(Talk) 17:31, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
  2. ACvote Toprawa and Ralltiir 05:26, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
  3. ACvote Sorry Naru, but it's been here way too long. CC7567 (talk) 20:38, 23 May 2009 (UTC)