Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Darth Malak (second nomination)

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Darth Malak

  • Nominated by: Jedi Kasra (talk) 21:18, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments: Drewton and I have worked on this article for a while, and I believe it's ready to be considered a good article.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 21:22, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

(3 ACs/5 Users/8 Total)

Support

  1. Thats all I can see that other people haven't objected to. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 23:48, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
  2. It's looking good! JethLordMaster (Talk) 04:18, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
  3. IFYLOFD (Come with me if you want to live.) 01:08, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
  4. ACvote - Cavalier OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 17:55, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
  5. --Darth tom Imperial Emblem (Imperial Intelligence) 22:13, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
  6. ACvote Cylka-talk- 10:00, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
  7. OLIOSTER Sith Emblem 05:18, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
  8. ACvote Grunny (Talk) 02:40, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Object

  1. From the pages of NaruHina's Death Note
    • It seems OK but:
    • The him being in the Old Republic Era in the Infobox is not sourced
    • The language base in the Bts is unsourced
      • "While such a name might seem incongruous with Darth Malak's role as Sith Lord, he could be seen as a fallen angel due to his Jedi beginnings." I think this should be sourced as another opinion may be that he sees himelf as a divine messenger or something. There are many ways that "angel" and "messenger to God" can go.
      • Actually got rid of that, it just states what the actual name means in Hebrew and Arabic, have sources.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 18:35, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
    • There is a Fact tag in the Bts.
    • One last thing, the succession box is not sourced. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 05:07, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
      • Took care of it, sourced now.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 16:03, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
    • NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 00:20, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
  2. Quotes in prose, speculation rampant in BtS, bullets in BtS, tiny paragraphs. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 13:19, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
  3. There's quotes in the middle of sections, that's against MoS the double and triple refs aren't needed, some sections are just way too short, mainly article prose problems. It would also be good idea to copyedit the article, there are numerous grammatical errors. Watch for POV in the article, the intro, P&T, and P&A have loads of it in their respective sections. Also, the BtS, needs to be rid of speculation, bullets, then expanded with stuff that can be sourced, IE: interviews, actions figures, etc. DC 01:30, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
  4. It's IFYLOFD!:
    • More info on the "devices" in the intro.
    • Is there an article on Darth Revan's flagship? If so, add a link to it in the intro.
      • Fixed, also linked in the body. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 00:53, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
    • "The Sith Lord corrupted Shan, who he had once considered a threat, and made her his apprentice, replacing the slain Darth Bandon, whom Revan had killed." Reword and/or split up this sentence.
    • Context needed on Deesra Luur Jada and Lucien Draay.
    • More info on the "discovery" made by Adasca.
    • Context for Krynda Draay and Xamar.
      • I think it's fixed, check it out.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:22, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Unsourced statements in BtS. IFYLOFD (And now, young Skywalker, you will die.) 01:50, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
  5. Cylka:
    • The infobox needs to be sourced correctly. Also any additional text in or out of parenthesis needs to either sourced separately or written before the ref notes, whichever the case may be.
    • The Star Forge wasn't just a superweapon, but also a space-based factory or spacestation. I think it would be worth mentioning that.
    • Was Malak helping Zayne in trying to apprehend Gryph? I thought that he was looking for Zayne at the behest of Lucien Draay and found him after Gryph got away. I could be wrong, but please check this out.
    • Give a little more info on how Zayne ended up on the Legacy. You mention that Zayne started a diversion, but no one knows how or why he got there.
    • Please give a little more context to how Zayne ended up on Jebble and they had to rescue him again. Just a sentence will do. Something like In light of certain events on Taris, Zayne traveled to Jebble where he was once again in need of assistance.
    • Please remove any quotes in the prose. From what I understand quotes or partial quotes can only be found in Bts, while quote templates only at the beginning of sections.
      • Those quotes in the BTS section are somewhat necessary, I feel, since they are from James Ohlen and John Jackson Miller, respectively. The quote from Ohlen is from Malak's databank entry, while the partial quote from Miller is from the letters section of Knights of the Old Republic #29. We can't just ignore those quotes.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 17:31, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
    • Make sure that "master" is capitalized when referring to them by name or Jedi Master. I changed some of them, but I'm not sure I got them all.
    • It was not long before rumors began to spread that Malak's apprentice, who would be known as Darth Bandon, would challenge him for the right to rule, as was the manner of the Sith. The result of this revolt, however, is unknown. Other Sith only wondered about this. Bandon didn't form a revolt. He was killed before he could - according to the databank. This needs to be changed.
    • Malak was a pale-skinned human who stood an impressive two meters in height. What is the ref, for his height. Cylka-talk- 01:19, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
    • There seem to be some linking issues throughout the article. As I understand it, in articles each linkable subject should have one link each in the intro, main body, image caption, and infobox.
    • Its looking good, but still needs a little work. Cylka-talk- 23:40, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
    • There are some POV and speculation issues throughout the article. As soon as everyone's objections have been satisfied, I'll sign off on the article as well. Cylka-talk- 16:41, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
  6. The sources in the "Sources" section are not listed in the order of their release --Jinzler 22:53, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
  7. Time for Darth Cav to wade in:
    • Intro - mention should be made of his taking advantage of the Jedi Strike Team's actions, and Revan's survival, although he believed him to be dead.
    • Intro - It would not be long until the new Dark Lord of the Sith was proven wrong. Proven wrong about what?
    • Jedi Padawan - Is there an article for Malak's village on Quelli? If so, it should be linked to.
    • Jedi Padawan - According to Deesra Luur Jada, a Twi'lek Jedi, Alek was trained at the Jedi Enclave located on Dantooine. If this is true, then there is no need for this statement to be quantified by Jada's statement. It should just read that he was trained on Dantooine.
    • Captured at Flashpoint - Context is need on the Last Resort and her crew upon first mention.
      • Addressed, I believe.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:23, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
    • Adasca's plot and a return to Taris - What is an exogorth? Context please.
      • Addressed, I believe.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:23, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
    • Adasca's plot and a return to Taris - Context is need on who Karath is upon first mention, and why he is at the meeting.
    • Adasca's plot and a return to Taris - Camper should be introduced earlier in the bio (around the mention of the Last Resort in the previous section), and his involvement in the exogorth project should be made clear from the beginning.
    • Adasca's plot and a return to Taris - Earlier, Zayne Carrick had boarded the Legacy with Admiral Karath, Carth Onasi, and Dallan Morvis after they had escaped on the Deadweight, Onasi's ship, from Karath's command ship when the Mandalorians boarded it after the devastating events of the battle at Serroco. Run on sentence. Consider breaking up and revising.
      • Addressed, I believe.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:23, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
    • Adasca's plot and a return to Taris - When Carrick, who was dressed in Rohlan's spare armor that had been given to him earlier by Mandalore, started a diversion - who was the armor given to? Did Mandalore give it to Rohlan or Carrick? Its a little unclear.
    • Adasca's plot and a return to Taris - Context is needed on who the Moomo brothers are.
    • Adasca's plot and a return to Taris - Is there an article for the Mandalorian invasion of Taris? If so, it needs to be linked to.
    • Against the Jedi Covenant - Context on who Shel Jelavan is upon first mention.
    • The final battles - You mention Malak's rapid promotion through the Republic ranks twice.
    • In search of the Star Forge - Context on who the Rakata/ Infinite Empire are.
      • Addressed, I believe.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:23, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
    • Betraying the Master - Are there articles that can be linked to for the Jedi strike team, and their assault on Revan's flagship?
      • Addressed, I believe.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:23, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
    • The Search for Bastila - Although his stratagems and tactics centered around brute force, and were, as the droid G0-T0 would tell the Jedi Exile many years later, "painfully obvious," I don't think this needs to include references to G0-T0 or the Exile since they are not connected to Malak. Plus, it is opinion from one character rather than fact.
    • The Search for Bastila - Who are Bastila's rescuers? Reference should be made, especially as one of them is Revan. This information should be included before Malak's discovery of Revan's survival.
      • Addressed, I believe.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:23, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
    • The Search for Bastila - Did Nord actually know that one of Bastila's rescuers was Revan?
    • The Search for Bastila - Mention should be made that Malak took Jedi prisoners during his attack on Dantooine for later use on the Star Forge.
    • The Star Forge - Some of the information on the Forge's construction process should be included earlier on, when the Star Forge is first introduced, to better explain how Revan and Malak controlled a vast armada.
    • The Star Forge - Context on how the Republic found the Star Forge is needed. Also, a link to the battle is needed.
    • Legacy - Context needed for G0-T0 and Mical.
      • Addressed, I believe.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:23, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
    • Legacy - Malak caused, in comparison to his master's thought-out goals, would forever paint Malak as a tyrannical monster who, despite all his attempts to gain absolute power, was ultimately inferior in every aspect compared to Revan. This is bordering on NPOV in my opinion, especially the "ultimate inferior" part.
      • Addressed, I believe.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:23, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
    • Years needed to be sourced in the succession box.
    • Check the entire article for instances of first names being used in place of surnames - surnames should be used for formality. I understand the possible reason for not using Alek's surname, and I hold no real objection to it so it could remain as such, but others may disagree on that one. - Cavalier OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 11:04, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
      • Addressed, I believe.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:23, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
  8. Muuuuuurgh:
    • The claim that Malak can be transformed into a Twi'lek dancer at the end of Knights of the Old Republic should be a bit more detailed--exactly how might a player go about the task of doing so? Wookieepedia is not a gaming site, however, I feel that a description is worth including for the purposes of informing readers who would like to verify this claim. I imagine that describing the process might be disruptive to the rest of the BTS section, so its probably best to keep the description of the process confined to the references section.
    • Although I appreciate that a page number was given, it should be specified which article in Star Wars Insider 100 was the basis for the first paragraph of "The final battles" section, as well as the statement that Darth Bandon's "quest for power had set him apart from his fellow students" in "The search for Bastila" section.
    • Related to the previous objection, the as-of-yet unidentified article from Star Wars Insider 100 should be included in the Sources section.
    • The claim that Malak was a Jedi Guardian is sourced only to the Wizards website and does not specify where on that website one can find this information.--Muuuuuurgh 08:55, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
  9. The very beginning needs a bit of work. You shouldn't start by calling him Alek Sqwhatever, but just Alek. There's no reason to doubt Alek's comments - "He claimed that people from Quelii..." - so they should be taken as fact. Mention his nickname after the first sentence, too. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 16:15, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
  10. Cylka, part deux:
    • There are numerous instances of ref notes written before punctuation. Please go through the article and correct this. The same goes for quotation marks. Commas and periods always go inside quotation marks.
      • Taken care of, I believe.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:43, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
    • Again there are problems of over/underlinking. Please read through the article carefully. Make sure you avoid creating new issues when fixing objections.
    • In the Legacy section, I'm not sure you can say that Mical is a former Jedi, since he is re-trained by the Exile.
    • There still are some POV issues, such as with the word "very." Please go through again.
    • The third paragraph in the P/T is bordering on copyright infringement of the CG, so I would suggest rewriting it a bit more.
      • I think I took care of it.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 16:02, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
    • and could also use it to cancel a Force-user's active powers - In the P/A, this sounds a bit too much like game mechanics, and should be rewritten. Also you are citing many of his Force powers to the game, but we aren't sure exactly of all of the powers he had since we couldn't play his character and see his statistics. Please double check that.
      • When I play the game, he usually activates the "Force Immunity" power after drawing his lightsaber. Also, I'm not entirely sure how I could write that without sounding like it's game mechanics, since he did use that power both in-game and according to the CG. And of course, if you prolong the duel, he'll use such powers as Force leap, Force speed, Force Suppression, though I think he uses the Breach power as well.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:40, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
    • Just a little bit more, Kasra. It's almost done.  :-) Cylka-talk- 07:54, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
  11. Toprawa:
  12. Jinzler
  13. Grunny's first look:
    • Overlinking: far too many repeated links. And make sure you link to the correct article not a redirect.
    • You should apply Template:Cite web to references 41, 47, 48, 49, and 52.
    • Intro - "After revealing to his former Master that he was indeed the former Dark Lord, Malak and Revan fought each other, but Shan sacrificed herself so that he and his companions could escape." Who each of the "he"'s is referring to is confusing. Also sacrificed makes it sound like she died when she didn't.
    • Mandalorian Wars - Recruiting for the Revanchists:
      • For clarity mention that the group was called the Revanchists explicitly in the text.
      • "While there, Alek met a Jedi named Zayne Carrick, the Padawan of Lucien Draay, who was the son of the Jedi Covenant leader Krynda Draay." The use of commas here suggests that Zayne was the son of Kyndra, even though she shares a last name with Lucien.
      • Jedi Covenant needs a little context when first mentioned.
      • "The Jedi Covenant believed that one of their Padawans would fall to the dark side." The start of this paragraph needs some sort of lead to create a better flow from the previous paragraph.
      • "While there, Alek met a Jedi named Zayne Carrick, who was the Padawan of the Jedi Master Lucien Draay, the son of Krynda Draay, the founder of a secret Jedi organization called the Covenant, which was dedicated to preventing the return of the Sith." Now this sentence is messy with constant contextualizing. Grunny (Talk) 09:19, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
        • I believe I've taken care of this sentence, let me know if you're not satisfied.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:24, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
    • Mandalorian Wars - Captured at Flashpoint
      • "However, after the Mandalorians were tricked into leaving the station during a false "Republic attack" masterminded by Marn Hierogryph, it was revealed that the Demagol that had emerged was actually Carrick." Last time Heirogryph was mentioned he was being chased by Carrick, please clarify that he is now an ally, possibly when describing the rest of the crew of the Last Resort.
      • "He disobeyed the Council in going to war, and taking advantage of his reputation and popularity, convinced many other Jedi to join him in dissent. As Revan's closest friend, Alek was the first to do so and he traveled to worlds such as Dantooine to recruit even more Jedi to his and Revan's growing rebellion.[16] By the time they were done, they had persuaded an extremely large portion of the Jedi to follow them to war." You have already mentioned this information at the start of the previous section, so remove one or the other so that the information is presented chronologically. As the second is more descriptive, make sure to put that one in its correct place.
    • I'll continue reviewing in sections, take care of these and I will continue. Grunny (Talk) 06:23, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
    • Mandalorian Wars - Adasca's plot and a return to Taris
      • A little more context on Lord Arkoh Adasca, just clarify what he is a lord of. With all the Sith in this article it could be confusing.
      • "As Mandalore the Ultimate entered the Legacy..." This is the first mention of Mandalore the Ultimate, mention who he is, which will explain why killing could end the war.
      • "...Carth Onasi, and Dallan Morvis escaped on the Deadweight, Onasi's ship." Since this is their first mention can you clarify that they are military officers?
    • Mandalorian Wars - Against the Jedi Covenant: Could you add a little mention of what Rakghouls are?
    • Good work so far. Make sure to update for KotOR 40. I've finished reading the Mandalorian Wars section and will try to pick up the pace of this review over the next couple of days :-). Grunny (Talk) 15:09, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
      • I did update the article with info from KotOR 40 under the section "Vision to Jarael". Please review this section, as well.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:49, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
    • Mandalorian Wars - Vision to Jarael: "A few months after the events of Vindication..." This is the first mention of Vindication, please clarify that it refers to the events described previously.
      • I believe I've taken care of this.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:02, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
    • In search of the Star Forge - Sith apprentice: A little context for the Elders, to clarify they are a different tribe than the One.
      • I believe I've taken care of this.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:36, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
    • I'm still seeing a lot of overlinking, make sure you check through again. Grunny (Talk) 09:51, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
      • Could you point out some instances of overlinking? I've found some, such as the Duel on the Star Forge article being linked twice.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:36, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
        • If I find them when I'm reading it I remove them, but since I am still finding them, I think you should just check through a couple of times. Grunny (Talk) 07:17, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
    • Dark Lord of the Sith - The search for Bastila: "They destroyed the Jedi Enclave and killed many, Jedi and civilian alike, and captured eight Jedi for later use on the Star Forge." Too many "and"s too close together.
    • Dark Lord of the Sith - The Star Forge:
      • "Malak was already planning for after the what he assumed would be a victory to..." This could be worded better. Possibly something like "Assuming they would be victorius, Malak was already planning..." or something.
      • "Though he knew they would not kill him, he dispatched" Clarify who the "he"s are.
      • "He then threw his lightsaber into one and blasted the other with Force lightning, effectively killing both." Is the "he" Revan or Malak, I'm assuming Malak but it's unclear from the wording.
    • Grunny (Talk) 07:17, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
    • P&t: "...who stood an impressive two meters in height." Impressive sounds POVish. Who considered his height impressive, since that is relative, considering different species and so forth.
    • P&a: "The Dark Lord also could use the Force to amplify his screams, triggering shock waves that rippled through the Force, and could also use the Force to tap into his innermost fears, pain and hate, and convert them into intense anger, channeling it to increase his speed, strength, and ferocity." This sentence would probably be better broken up.
    • Okay, I've finished reading it Kasra :-). Grunny (Talk) 13:53, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Comments

  • Took care of the quotes in the middle of sections, took out the bullets in BTS, him being part of the OR era is already sourced, will work on sourcing the language bases.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 20:53, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
  • I think someone should take notice of the hideous amount of Point of View violations in the "Legacy" section. -MPK 18:25, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Except that what's in that section reflects character's opinions of Malak, such as G0-T0, Canderous Ordo, and Mical.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 17:41, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Then you need to include that it was their reflections. As it stands, it's POV, but with some tweaking, it could be fixed without changing the meaning of the sentences. DC 16:08, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Tweaked it a bit, check it out.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 17:05, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Content approaching for the BTS: http://www.farawaypress.com/games/swkotorguide.html. Mauser 13:18, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Requires updating from Knights of the Old Republic 40. CC7567 (talk) 06:52, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Approved as a Good article by AgriCorps 02:40, 20 May 2009 (UTC)