Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Battle of Kessel (0 ABY) (second nomination)

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Battle of Kessel (0 ABY)

  • Nominated by: Kilson 02:02, March 7, 2011 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments:Going back to the basics, Renegade Squadron battles. Man, I remember creating this page four years ago.

(4 ACs/1 Users/5 Total)

Support

  1. ACvote—Tommy 9281 Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 12:50 UTC
  2. Hope to see more from you. Corellian PremierRobotechAll along the watchtower 01:53, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
  3. ACvote Nice job working through the objections. Looks good now. Toprawa and Ralltiir 21:50, March 25, 2011 (UTC)
  4. ACvote Grunny (talk) 01:42, March 28, 2011 (UTC)
  5. ACvote 1358 (Talk) 19:54, March 28, 2011 (UTC)

Object

Toprawa
  • You don't need to use the full ref code in every single use of a reference. Use the full reference one and the abbreviated code in all subsequent instances. Toprawa and Ralltiir 02:47, March 7, 2011 (UTC)
    • Sorry, that was me just being a little lazy. The references were already set up like that when I started editting, so I didn't feel like changing them. They're fixed now. Kilson 03:09, March 7, 2011 (UTC)
      • Ok, well, doing it that way isn't really an option. This is how referencing is to be formatted, according to Wookieepedia's Sourcing policy. Please find it in you to avoid being lazy in the future. Toprawa and Ralltiir 19:28, March 7, 2011 (UTC)
  • What is the purpose behind capitalizing "Wookiee Warriors" and "Rebel Vanguards" in the infobox? Can/should "warrior" and "vanguard" not just be de-capitalized?
    • Fixed
  • What is the purpose behind designating the Victory II frigate as a "Star frigate"? The article treats the ship's formal name as simply Victory II-class frigate.
    • Fixed
  • Would it be appropriate to provide a link/article for the ISD participating in this battle?
    • Made a small article, what do you think?
      • Satisfactory for the purposes of this objection. Please link to this article in the infobox and in the article proper as well, if you have not done so yet. Toprawa and Ralltiir 01:02, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
        • I already had a link in the body. I put one in the intro and in the infobox.
  • I'm curious where the title "Space Battle of Kessel" comes from. Is this purely conjectural? If so, we should probably consider moving the article to "Space battle of Kessel," as there's no canonical reason to formally capitalize "battle" in such a case. Toprawa and Ralltiir 23:07, March 22, 2011 (UTC)
    • Wait, do you mean "Second battle of Kessel" or "Space battle of Kessel"?
      • Meant Second battle of Kessel. My bad. Toprawa and Ralltiir 23:56, March 22, 2011 (UTC)
        • No prob. You see how many typos I make. The article is moved. All your objections should be addressed
  • If the Millennium Falcon participates in the battle, which the main image clearly suggests, it too should be listed among the Rebel strength in the infobox. Toprawa and Ralltiir 23:09, March 22, 2011 (UTC)
    • Yep, you're right. Done. Kilson 23:35, March 22, 2011 (UTC)
  • Question: are there multiple LAAT/i gunships that participate in this battle, or just one? Toprawa and Ralltiir 01:02, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
    • 1, changed it in the infobox. By the way, thanks for the review, it has been quite boring just watching my noms float in the wind. I really appreciate this. One problem though, I found a very good cutscene image from the game on the web, but I am having problems uploading it. I believe because of my long absence, I am currently listed as an inactive user and can no-longer upload images, at least for now. Would you mind uploading this image for me, it would look great in the article, minus the caption at the bottom of the image. Kilson 01:21, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
      • I'm glad to help. Take the objections and changes made to your articles constructively and apply what you're learning to your future articles, and you should be ok. My advice to you is to just take it slow. Don't be in a rush to pump out the next article. Take your time, and make sure you double and triple check what you currently have on your plate. If you need help uploading an image, feel free to start a Senate Hall thread. I'm sure someone would be willing to help you. I'm not the best person to be asking for images. Toprawa and Ralltiir 01:32, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
  • The bold portion of the intro should avoid being linked to, per the Manual of Style. Please revise, and don't necessarily feel compelled to link to those specific things if they are not mentioned again in the intro. Toprawa and Ralltiir 01:42, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
    • Unlinked. Kilson 01:45, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
  • We have an article for holocubes. Why pipelink to Data holocron here? "the Rebel Alliance recovered a holocube"
    • Properly linked now.
      • Scratch that, just replayed the level, Serra refers to it as a data holocron. Kilson 02:18, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
  • Would it be appropriate to reserve an article for this specific GR-75? "Ackbar's transport was quickly disabled" Toprawa and Ralltiir 02:00, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
    • I'm not sure it's necessary. Unlike the Star Destoryer, that transport isn't featured prominently in the level. It's only briefly mentioned and shown for maybe 2 seconds in a cutscene. I'll make a small article if you really thing it's a good idea. Kilson 02:16, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
  • As a general rule, there should never be information exclusive to the infobox. In battle articles such as this, the article proper should detail each individual type of vessel participating. Here, the article refers to the "starfighters" used by the Rebels. What kind of starfighters? The infobox mentions X-wings, Y-wings, and A-wings. Please elaborate in the article: "Renegade Squadron launched its starfighters..." Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:09, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
    • Added
  • Same goes for the Millennium Falcon. Solo is mentioned several times throughout the course of the battle. Find a place to explain that he's piloting the Falcon while in combat. Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:12, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
    • Actually, the only reason we know the Falcon took place in the battle is because of that cutscene image. It wasn't actually shown during the gameplay, and we don't even know for sure if Han Solo was flying it during the battle. I included it in the main body as best I could.
  • On that same note, the infobox mentions that Rebel troopers, Wookiee warriors, Rebel vanguards, and stormtroopers evidently clashed aboard the Star Destroyer. This, too, should all be detailed in the article.
    • Added
      • As a reviewing note, because I see you changed this portion of my review, it's considered more formally grammatically correct to refer to a team or group by "it" rather than the informal "them," even though that's how we normally speak. In American English usage, "team" is treated as a singular entity, rather than the plural form of each individual member of the team.
  • Same goes for the TIE interceptors and bombers. What did they do in the battle? Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:17, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
    • Spawned automatically? Geez, gamemechanics. Corellian PremierRobotechAll along the watchtower 20:05, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
      • I'm not sure what the purpose of your comment here was, Corellian Premier, whether you're trying to be sarcastic or prove some kind of point that's being lost on me. But if you don't have something constructive to contribute to the dialogue here, kindly butt out. Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:09, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
        • Fixed everything. Anything else? Kilson 01:23, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
          • Potentially, yes. :) Toprawa and Ralltiir 17:40, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
            • You're enjoying this too much. lol Kilson 23:05, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
  • I'm somewhat confused by your change to the TIE complement mention in the article, where it now reads that the Renegades "quickly dispatching six of the TIE fightes." If this is referring to six TIE/ln fighters, it would probably be best to capitalize the F, per the infobox and for clarification.
    • Capitalized
  • Same goes for the mention of the six fighters destroyed in the BTS.
    • Capitalized
  • Can we make brief mention of any casualties suffered in the battle? The infobox mentions a few members of Renegade Squadron in the casualties list. Were these suffered in the starfighter attack? The boarding action? Additionally, were there stormtrooper casualties in the boarding action?
    • Well, during the level, no one specific Rebel or stormtrooper is shown being killed. However, it's impossible to play though the level without one AI characer killing another during some point in the battle, that what I meant when I said "a few members of Renegade Squadron." Do you think I should remove the statement from the infobox?
      • If this game is anything like the first two Battlefronts, I understand what you mean. I guess the article is ok as is, and I definitely think that should remain in the infobox. If stormtroopers are shown as casualties in the same regard, I would recommend adding something to the infobox in similar fashion. Toprawa and Ralltiir 03:54, March 25, 2011 (UTC)
  • I would really just recommend removing the last paragraph of the BTS. The timing of the A-wing is very muddled up, but they could just as easily be A-wing as they could be R-22s. It's just speculation.
    • Deleted
  • Once you finish these, I have one more bit about the article's title to discuss with you. Toprawa and Ralltiir 17:40, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
    • Let me guess, is it the part about the "Second" battle of Kessel?
      • Ok, here's my issue with the name of the article. The title is based entirely on an old OOU article naming lineage we created as a way of organizing all the Battles of Kessel that don't have a proper canon name; i.e., First Battle of Kessel, Second Battle of Kessel, and so on. These can all be seen here. If you explore those links, you'll find that many of these "First, Second, Third, etc." titles are no longer even being used. They're now almost completely pointless redirects, which really renders calling this article the Second battle of Kessel equally pointless. Not to mention completely arbitrary, since we don't even know for sure that this battle even is canonically the "second battle" to take place there. For all we know it could be the sixth battle. Since this lineage is no longer really be used, I would recommend moving this title to "Battle of Kessel (0 ABY)," unless you have a better suggestion. I'm certainly all ears. Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:06, March 25, 2011 (UTC)
        • How about you're previously semi-recommended Space battle over Kessel? Kilson 21:03, March 25, 2011 (UTC)
          • The reason I'm not exactly keen on that, as opposed to "Battle of Kessel (0 ABY)," is that the "0 ABY" actually helps differentiate between all the other Battles of Kessel by giving the parenthetical time frame descriptor, so we know what it is right away. "Space Battle of Kessel," on the other hand, is rather unspecific. FWIW, I just conferred quickly with several other AC members to get their opinions, and they were in favor of the 0 ABY name as well. Toprawa and Ralltiir 21:18, March 25, 2011 (UTC)
            • OK, I see what you mean. It makes sense. I moved it. Kilson 21:25, March 25, 2011 (UTC)
              • All right, just remember to revise all mentions in the article of "second battle of Kessel" (infobox and BTS), and we should be good to go. Toprawa and Ralltiir 21:38, March 25, 2011 (UTC)
                • OK, done. Kilson 21:40, March 25, 2011 (UTC)
  • I have to ask this now after looking at some of the links leading to this article. The Chewbacca article states that he and Solo participated in this battle. If Chewbacca is part of this, he needs to be mentioned in the article, and possibly the infobox as well. Toprawa and Ralltiir 19:26, March 26, 2011 (UTC)
    • I played through the level once more, and I don't see or hear Chewbacca anywhere during the battle. It is possible the Chewbacca article is wrong. Kilson 19:49, March 26, 2011 (UTC)
      • Very possible. I removed the info from the Chewbacca article. Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:05, March 26, 2011 (UTC)
The Premier
  1. A number of redirects are present in the article. They should be removed.
    • OK, I removed the only two redirects I could find. If you find any more, please tell me.
      • "Rebel vangaurds" in the infobox. "Space" in the intro. In the last paragraph, force-field and shield generator. "Jedi archives" in the aftermath. That's it. I highly recommend setting it up where you can see redirects, as someone on your other nomination said. Corellian PremierRobotechAll along the watchtower 02:58, March 11, 2011 (UTC)
        • It took me a little time, but I finally managed to set up the redirect finder. If they're not fixed now, I am color blind!
  2. The middle "battle" paragraph needs to be expanded. How were the defenses "seriously weakened?"
    • I gave some context to seriously weakened, but I can't expand that paragraph anymore unless I fill it with useless fluff. There really isn't anymore information I could put in there.
  3. No good quote for "aftermath" section?
    • Not really, the best I could find from the game is the head quote from the Mission to Mos Eisley (Galactic Civil War) article, and I'm not sure if it fits with this article given the fact it really doesn't have anything to do with Battle of Kessel itself.
  4. In the BTS, could you discuss the game mechanics of the game--that shooting down six TIE fighters is an objective, and the Victory-SD turrets as well. Corellian PremierRobotechAll along the watchtower 21:52, March 10, 2011 (UTC)
    • I added a little context to the Bts, what do you think? Kilson 23:35, March 10, 2011 (UTC)
      • Two more things for the BTS..."where the player must assist RS..." Isn't the player part of the squadron? And I was looking for something more along the lines of "the mission objectives specify the player to take out six tie fighters." I think it is necessary to spell it out, otherwise a reader could assume taking out six ties is gamemechanics or something. Corellian PremierRobotechAll along the watchtower 02:58, March 11, 2011 (UTC)
        • Reworded what I said, how does it sound now?
  5. Some useful tips I learned in my first GAN: In the infobox, if a quantity is unknown, (like the Imperial commander), just leave it blank, and to caveat that, we don't need an asterisk for just one bit of data (ie "a few members of Renegade Squadron). And for the outcomes, use asterisks instead of semi-colons to list the results. Corellian PremierRobotechAll along the watchtower 03:13, March 11, 2011 (UTC)
    • Thanks for the tip, infoboxes have never been my strong suite, it should be fixed now.
  6. Solo wasn't a General yet, was he?
    • You're right, I was confusing it with the fact Serra refers to Solo as a General later on in the story. It should be fixed now.
  7. I hate to say this, but we need to include the Imperial troops onboard the Star Destroyer—right? Corellian PremierRobotechAll along the watchtower 03:13, March 11, 2011 (UTC)
Ecks Dee
  • Appropriate to link something here? "Alliance's recently lost main base on"
    • Good eyes, link added.
  • And that's in fact all. Nice. 1358 (Talk) 19:38, March 28, 2011 (UTC)
    • Thanks for the review Xd. :) Kilson 19:51, March 28, 2011 (UTC)

Comments

Approved as a Good article by AgriCorps 19:54, March 28, 2011 (UTC)


  1. Would we need to add anything from the CSWE, if said information exists? Corellian PremierRobotechAll along the watchtower 21:52, March 10, 2011 (UTC)
    • I believe we don't, but hold on, I posted a request on the Forum:Entry requests for Renegade Squadron's CSWE entry, just to be sure.
      • I was correct, the entry mentioned nothing about the battle. Kilson 06:21, March 12, 2011 (UTC)
  2. Hey Kilson, I expanded the intro a slight bit to include the "aftermath" section. Let me know if it works or not. Corellian PremierRobotechAll along the watchtower 01:53, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
    • Don't worry dude, it looks fine. Thanks for the help, it means a lot. Kilson 02:02, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
  3. I finally managed to upload and place that image into the article. Tell me if I need to change it at all. Kilson 23:21, March 24, 2011 (UTC)