Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Attack on the Elders' spaceport

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Attack on the Elders' spaceport

(3 ACs/2 Users/5 Total)

Support

  1. SoresuMakashi(Everything I tell you is the truth) 05:40, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
  2. ACvote CC7567 (talk) 04:48, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
  3. ACvote Cavalier OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 07:41, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
  4. ACvote Graestan(Talk) 16:30, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
  5. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 20:30, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Object

  1. Soresu
    • knocked the guard down, then knocked a second guard out. Firstly, knocked is repetitive. Also, does knocked the guard down mean knocked unconscious or just pushed onto the ground?
      • Reworded. As far as the second part of the objection, the source only states that Obi-Wan "knocked him down", but the description of the rest of the battle clearly indicates that he does not in any way participate in the fight afterward. In other words, he could be knocked out, but we don't know for sure. We know only that he was taken out of the fight, which is reflected by the new wording. —Master Jonathan(Jedi Council Chambers) 23:37, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
    • Soon after, the now-divided Young battled one last time, this time against itself. Time is repetitive.
      • Reworded.
    • And that's it. Very well done. SoresuMakashi(Everything I tell you is a lie) 09:10, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
  2. Cav the Elder:
    • Intro: The Elders were making the tactical error of refueling all of their fighters—which were their primary advantage in the war—at the same time, and when the Young noticed this, Obi-Wan Kenobi—one of the Young's leaders—came up with a plan to eliminate this advantage and possibly win the war. Multiple use of dash quantifiers in one sentence. Please remove one, or break up and reword the sentence as necessary.
    • For centuries, the planet of Melida/Daan had been locked in a civil war as the two native tribes—the Melida and the Daan—fought over years-old grudges. Is there any background to these grudges? Also, using the term "years-old" when you refered to it as "centuries" at the start of the sentence doesn't sit quite right.
      • In-universe, no one remembers what the original issue was that started the whole thing, but by this time, the "grudge" over which they were fighting was usually a relatively recent battle won by the opposing tribe, so it is correct as written. As far as giving background on the grudges, IMO to explain it would be a lot of extra detail that isn't necessary—all the reader needs to know is that they've been fighting for centuries over nothing but old grudges. However, I can reword and/or elaborate if you still want. —Master Jonathan(Jedi Council Chambers) 20:03, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
    • The Young - who are they exactly? Are they children from one tribe or the other, or a combination of both?
    • How did the Young capture the tribe's weapons?
    • Why exactly did Kenobi leave the Order the fight for The Young?
      • Already stated: "to join the fight." Specifically, he felt that the Young's cause was greater than that of the Jedi, and thus decided to stay and join the fight. Again, however, IMO it's really not necessary to explain further for purposes of this article, but I can if you want. —Master Jonathan(Jedi Council Chambers) 20:03, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
        • Please do. It's important to understand his reasoning. Don't assume that the reader knows everything, or is familiar with the books these events appear in. I for one have never read them. - Cavalier OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 12:48, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
    • The quote you have in article implies that the Young contacted the Middle Generation for their support after the raid. However, the article text implies that the Middle Generation joined them of their own accord. Please amend the article to reflect the Young making contact.
    • Why did Jinn stop the fighting? Why was he there?
    • No mention in the CSWE under any of the individual participants entries? - Cavalier OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 12:43, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
      • Though the war itself is mentioned in multiple entries, the CSWE contains absolutely no mention of this particular battle, not even in Roenni's entry. —Master Jonathan(Jedi Council Chambers) 20:03, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
  3. Attack of the Clone
    • Can you try to trim down the intro just a tad? It's a bit disproportionate to the article itself.
    • "However, the two tribes joined forces as the Elders and retaliated": can you check this? It sounds like something's missing after "and", or that the "and" simply shouldn't be in there.
      • It's correct as written. "The two tribes" did two things: they A) "joined forces as the Elders" and B) "retaliated". —Master Jonathan(Jedi Council Chambers) 04:02, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
        • Oops, didn't see that; thanks for clarifying. CC7567 (talk) 04:48, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
    • Can it be mentioned a little earlier that the Elders had five starfighters? "Hidden starfighters" isn't very specific, and I don't see much reason of mentioning the crucial fact of the number of fighters later.
      • It's stated as early as I can state it. The Defenders of the Dead stops just after the opening battle has begun without stating the number of fighters, and The Uncertain Path starts 14 days later, so we don't know exactly what happened in between books. It's very possible they may have had more than (or fewer than) five during the opening battle; all we know for sure is that they had five immediately prior to this attack. —Master Jonathan(Jedi Council Chambers) 04:02, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
    • "This worked for the first three": first three what? Starfighters? Young? Elders?
    • "and Kenobi moved to compensate": compensate what/for what?
    • "the strike team bolted for the shaft they had entered the hangar through": I know that this is somewhat grammatically correct, but the placement of "through" is rather awkward; can you try to reword it?
    • What exactly was the point of the attack; was it to convince the Middle Generations to ally themselves with the Young? If that was the case, please try to mention it in the prelude instead of all the way down in the aftermath.
      • The source strongly suggests that possibility with the wording, but it's never explicitly stated and would therefore qualify as OR. The only "point" explicitly stated is to eliminate the Elders' starfighter advantage. —Master Jonathan(Jedi Council Chambers) 04:02, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
    • Is the recap of the end of the war completely necessary to the aftermath of the attack itself? CC7567 (talk) 00:14, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
      • Not necessarily, but it's there for two specific reasons. First, the prelude states that the Young's original goal was peace, and I wanted to show the reader how peace was finally reached; otherwise the reader might get the wrong idea that this attack and the end of the war brought peace once and for all. Second, the aftermath section is a little on the small side anyway due to not much information being available, and eliminating that information would shorten it even more. And just to clarify, the Last Battle of Zehava wasn't really part of the Young-Elders War itself as was incorrectly stated in its article; it was actually a standalone battle not technically part of any specific conflict. The war itself ended with this attack. I'll fix that article now. Thanks for the review. —Master Jonathan(Jedi Council Chambers) 04:02, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
        • Fair enough, I guess. CC7567 (talk) 04:48, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
  4. Context for the Young and the Elders in the intro, please. And especially for the Middle Generation. Graestan(Talk) 02:10, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
    • IMO, the names themselves are self-contextualizing. The Young and the Elders are clearly identified as the two factions in the war, and their names provide a good idea of what kind of people make up each faction; identifying the Elders as being made up of the two native tribes really is relevant only to the early part of the prelude section and not the intro, which sums up only the attack itself and the immediately surrounding events. Likewise, the fact that the Young are made up of children is heavily implied by their name, and there's nothing else I can say with getting into the detail of the two native tribes again. As far as the Middle Generation, hardly any canonical information exists on them, and what little context I could provide is again either redundant given the name, or it would be detail irrelevant to the intro. I can try to work some context in if you still want it, but it seems unnecessary to me. —Master Jonathan(Jedi Council Chambers) 02:41, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
      • Alright, contextified after IRC discussion. The Middle Generation, is, well, the middle generation, and I've added a couple words that I believe should help the reader understand that. Absolutely nothing else is known about them except what you already see in the intro and in the first sentence of the "Aftermath" section; adding that detail would require giving a bit of explanation about the prior wars, and I don't want to add too much since CC already asked me to cut the intro down a bit above. —Master Jonathan(Jedi Council Chambers) 21:48, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
        • You have to be kidding me with the paragraph responses that are about six times as much work as the fix would be. Graestan(Talk) 16:30, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Comments

Approved as a Good article by AgriCorps 03:52, 30 July 2009 (UTC)