Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Wan Sandage Jr.

< Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations
The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.

Wan Sandage Jr.

(3 Inqs/1 Users/4 Total)

Support

  1. Clone Commander Lee Talk 17:05, June 8, 2014 (UTC)
  2. Inqvote Sir Cavalier of OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 14:53, July 23, 2014 (UTC)
  3. Inqvote IFYLOFD (Enter the Floydome) 02:49, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
  4. Inqvote Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 02:29, October 10, 2014 (UTC)

Object

Lee's charge
  • Intro: Even though not always recognizable as his own being, sometimes being confused for his father, Sandage nonetheless went out to make a name for himself: It would be easier to read if you just say "Even though sometimes being confused for his father...".
    • How does it look now?
  • Intro: gaining popularity on a race course located on the planet of Sullust known as Serres Sarrano. He went on to gain various : Please vary this "gain" a little bit.
    • Done.
  • Question on the 24 BBY date: Is this explicitly stated as 24 BBY in the game? Or more like two years before Episode II? If the latter one is the case, you would need a reference note.
    • Added some references
      • Good, but you only need to source the date to this reference, not the whole sentence before: Like ":...he used to do this and this [Ref1]] in the year 24 BBY [Date Reference].
  • Bio: Context for Ryloth/Mon Calamari/Gamorr.
    • Added
      • Not for MonCal.
        • What's wrong with "...course on Mon Calamari, another world hosting some of the season's Podracing courses..." then? Hm, maybe planet instead of world? Bad word usage? --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 21:55, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
          • My fault, that "world" slipped past me and is perfectly fine. Sorry. Clone Commander Lee Talk 10:46, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
  • Bio: At some point, Sandage raced on a track that sped through a city. At one point,: Could you change the beginnings a little bit?
    • Fixed
  • Bio: brakes, allowing the two other pilots to ram into each other and destroy themselves, allowing Sandage : Same here.
    • Also fixed
  • Bio: Context for Holdfast and Bolt.
    • Added
  • P&T: Wan Sandage Jr. was a thrill seeker like his father, who followed the elder Sandage's footsteps and mounted up as a daring Podracer pilot.: This sounds like Sandage senior's father was a thrill seeker not senior and junior.
    • Huh, you're right. Alright, tried to reword it a bit now.
      • Could you replace the second father with something like "parent" here? Clone Commander Lee Talk 09:52, June 3, 2014 (UTC)
        • Rolls off the tongue odd, imo, so I just removed the descriptor altogether. It should still be easy to tell who the sentence is referring too. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 15:03, June 5, 2014 (UTC)
  • P&T: You need to specify his skin color.
    • Whoops, done.
  • You need a 1st Identified tag.
  • Good work. Clone Commander Lee Talk 22:19, May 29, 2014 (UTC)
  • Is it said in the game that Sullust is in the Outer Rim? If not you have to add a specific source for that. Clone Commander Lee Talk 09:52, June 3, 2014 (UTC)
  • The "tan" in the hair color is infobox-exclusive, if I'm not mistaken. Clone Commander Lee Talk 10:46, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
Cav
Floyd
  • You have a lot of BtS info on the "Sandage" character in Lucas' original drafts sourced to the Databank which can't be sourced there. All the Databank contained on the matter was "Sandage's name dates back to the earliest drafts of Star Wars, which contained a character named Count Sandage." IFYLOFD (Enter the Floydome) 01:33, July 29, 2014 (UTC)
    • Do you think the information on the old Sandage's role is unnecessary? Or should I look for something to source it with? I'm not sure what it contains, but I was wondering if this might have the role of Sandage (Or maybe just source it too those comics that are/were adapting the rough draft).--Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 16:53, August 1, 2014 (UTC)
      • I did some more editing. How does that look? --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 16:38, August 5, 2014 (UTC)
      • Well, while the information about the old Sandage may not exactly be relevant... Well, I guess it's not relevant at all, is it? I was wondering if, with some rewording, the drafts can just be self sourced.--Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 21:43, August 5, 2014 (UTC)
        • Sorry it took me a minute to get back to you. As it stands right now, I think it's probably fine, and relevant enough, since that's the origin of the name "Wan Sandage". IFYLOFD (Enter the Floydome) 02:49, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
Exiled Jedi
  • I am confused why succumbed and senility are both linked to death. First of all, only one needs to be linked. Secondly, did he really die to senility or did he just become senile?
    • Wow, how did I miss that linking? Lol. Anyways,I swear there was a source that used the word, which is why I used it, since I figured it was important in regards to Sandage Sr.'s death. I thought it was the databank, but I guess not. I suppose it should be changed anyways. I'll just use something simple, like "old age" or something similar I guess.
      • So, does Racer Revenge say that he succumbed to senility? The BTS makes it sound like the guide identifies that his was not his father.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 04:05, August 15, 2014 (UTC)
        • I reworded the BtS a bit. I read senility somewhere, but I'm having troubles finding it again. It could have been the New Essential Guide to Characters. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 15:51, August 18, 2014 (UTC)
  • Can the 22 BBY and 24 BBY dates be sourced directly to the strategy guide or does it just mention years since a specific date? If it only mentions years since The Phantom Menace or something similar, you will need to create a reference explaining the sourcing.
    • The 24 BBY dates should be fine (Also, unless I'm blind, no Guide points to 24 BBY. Only the game, which is explained in the reference). But I made some source dates, so maybe I tapped on what you were talking about. The 22 BBY references were a tad off and out of roder, especially in the third bio paragraph.
      • You still have 22 and 24 BBY dates without a special citations in at least three locations.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 04:05, August 15, 2014 (UTC)
  • The second sentence of the P&T feels a little point-of-view to me. Could you reword it?
    • I removed "in over his head," but the rest should be correct, in terms of calling him eager or brash, but I can get you the exact words out of the Prima guide if you want.
  • For reference 6, you need to provide a source that says when The Phantom Menace occurred.
    • Mmm, alright, though I figured that since there was another source above it with that date, I figured it wouldn't need to be repeated.
  • I asked around and I believe that the redlink in the BTS image caption is not allowed per the ban on redlinks in templates.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 05:36, August 13, 2014 (UTC)
    • Ah, okay. I didn't really know one way or the other. Removed, though I should probably fill that link out, too. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 20:23, August 13, 2014 (UTC)
  • Is there anything confirming that the Wan Sandage in the Kinect game is Wan Sandage Jr? If not, there is a distinct possibility that he could be Wan Sandage the third.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 04:05, August 15, 2014 (UTC)
    • Is it possible that the creators didn't know about Jr? Yes. But, the RR Guide, and even the NEGtC, claim that Sandage Sr. had died, the former even explaining that Sr died before RR even took place. So I suppose it's a kind of process by elimination. Again, Jr was identified only as Wan Sandage in the game, and the guide had to add Jr, also stating that some fans couldn't tell the difference between the two Sandages (Which, while not proven, could also mean that originally it was the elder Sandage in RR, until the creators realized he was already dead, and the guide served as a retcon.) --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 15:51, August 18, 2014 (UTC)
      • What I was trying to say is that the information from Kinect should go to the BTS unless there is proof that it is Wan Sandage Jr. We know it can't be Wan Sandage Sr, but it does not necessarily have to be Wan Sandage Jr. either.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 17:02, August 18, 2014 (UTC)
        • I think I'm seeing what you're meaning. So, in other words, it could be a totally separate Devlikk named Wan Sandage flying the same kind of Racer? Hm, on one hand I'd almost like someone else to weigh in, yet on the other hand this makes perfect sense. I'll add the Kinect story line into the BtS in a bit then, I guess as a kind of alternate story or as a conflicting 'thing.' --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 20:07, August 18, 2014 (UTC)
          • As there is no other place to put that information, you should probably go into detail about the Kinect information in the BTS.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 20:21, August 18, 2014 (UTC)
            • Okay, check this out. I think I've seen stuff like this on other articles, but I don't remember if it was correct and if those were status articles anyways. I guess I'm just throwing out an idea. If not, then I'll just rewrite that paragraph OOU.--Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 23:47, August 18, 2014 (UTC)
              • Sorry, but the layout guide states that the BTS should be written in an out-of-universe style. You should probably combine all of the Kinect information into one section in the BTS.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 00:21, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
  • "However, the identity of this Sandage cannot be confirmed as either being the elder Sandage" You already stated that it could not be the elder Sandage; I don't think you need to say it again.
  • "As such, this article assumes that the character in Kinect Star Wars is not Wan Sandage Jr." I don't think you should state that we assume that it is not Wan Sandage Jr. That is just as much speculation as saying it is Wan Sandage Jr. It is best to just say that it is not known whether it is Wan Sandage Jr. or not.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 20:21, August 18, 2014 (UTC)
  • I'll look things over again after you rework the BTS.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 00:21, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
    • Tweaked it again. I think something has to be assumed in the long run, but I tried to write it up a bit where it still says we're assuming something, but we're assuming it based on the fact no source has clarified. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 20:15, September 7, 2014 (UTC)
  • Instead of including the paragraph starting with: "If the Kinect Wan Sandage was the same character represented in this article, then he would have competed through 22 BBY," I believe it would be better if you just had a paragraph written in an out-of-universe style saying what the character named Wan Sandage did in the game.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 22:03, September 18, 2014 (UTC)
    • Alright, how about now? It's short and too the point, and I don't think the extra fluff about competitors and planets was necessary either. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 03:40, September 24, 2014 (UTC)
  • Just checking, but is it actually stated that he only started Podracing after his father died?
    • It seems to be implied within the guide: "This is his son, stepping into his father's shoes and Elsinore-Cordova POdracer[...]". Unless I'm interpreting this wrong, it looks as if it's saying he didn't start until after the other's death. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 23:56, October 2, 2014 (UTC)
      • Is there any more context available on this? From what you have shown me, it is hard to tell if he started racing after his father died or if he just started using his father's Podracer. I see you mentioned something about his being an amateur and being new to the sport. Is this mentioned separately?--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 01:59, October 10, 2014 (UTC)
        • (Whew, I didn't know my changes would be saved in case of an edit conflict) Here's the full entry for him from the guide: Only the most astute Podracing fan will notice that this is not the same Wan Sandage who raced in the Boonta Eve Classic eight years ago. That Devlikk, already more than halfway through his lifespan at the time, is now dead. This is his son, stepping into his father's shoes and Elsinore-Cordova Podracer, still renowned for its amazing traction. However, Sandage Jr. is almost too eager to prove himself, frequently getting into dangerous scrapes and conflicts with much more experienced racers.
        • I say this definitely confirms he did not get the racer until after his father's death. The term "father's shoes" also seems to imply that Jr is just now stepping into the profession. It's also how I've seen the phrase used irl. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 02:25, October 10, 2014 (UTC)
          • Okay, that should be enough to state it. Sorry about the edit conflict.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 02:29, October 10, 2014 (UTC)
            • Lol, I don't think anyone could've controlled it :P (Again? Really? Out of control.) --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 02:36, October 10, 2014 (UTC)
  • "Wan Sandage Jr. picked up his father's fallen reigns after the elder's death." "Fallen reigns" seems too informal for an encyclopedia article.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 19:52, October 2, 2014 (UTC)
    • Sounds better than "stepping into his father's shoes" :P Hm, I don't know. I'd almost ask for a second opinion in terms of "encyclopedic." The actual SWE is only so formal sounding as well. Maybe it's personal preference, or maybe you're totally right, but I don't really know. I can't think of a better alternative, but if you have a better way to say it on your mind, don't hesitate to share it. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 23:56, October 2, 2014 (UTC)
  • "It was not until the game's strategy guide was it revealed that he was actually the son of the character who appeared in Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace, naming him as Wan Sandage Jr." Was the strategy guide released at a different time from the game? If it was not, then you could just reword it slightly.
    • Yah, the book just says 2002, and doesn't specify further. Done.
  • You mention that someone voiced him, are there any quotes you can use for the P&T, Skills and abilities, or equipment sections?
    • Nothing in English. Although, I'm 90% certain they just reused the exact same sound files from Star Wars: Episode I Racer which were used for Sandage Sr. Not that anything he said was translated either, except for one line which doesn't appear in Revenge.
  • For the last sentence in the BTS, I'm not sure that you can say that George Lucas reused the name just using the databank unless another source states this, as I do not believe his name was used in the movie. Unless there is another source saying that George Lucas picked out the name, it would probably be best to just say that the name was later reused without mentioning who selected it.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 01:59, October 10, 2014 (UTC)
    • I thought he named the characters in the script, unless he didn't write the script... I don't actually know, so I removed the name. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 02:14, October 10, 2014 (UTC)
Toprawa
  • Is the Biography quote taken from a game caption?
  • "Joined into" is rather awkward phrasing here. Is this wording from the source? If not, please reword: "Sandage joined into the Podracing season"
  • Is there any reason you're not formatting "the Brightlands" as "The Brightlands"? That seems to be what the course should be called. Or, conversely, does the article even need "the" in its title?
    • I must have skimmed over it. In the guide it is The Brightlands, so I think it should be the same here.--Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 03:52, October 14, 2014 (UTC)
  • I absolutely disagree with this article's handling of the Kinect Star Wars stuff. The BTS itself explains that the Kinect Star Wars character cannot be the elder Wan Sandage, so it's a very basic supposition to make that it must therefore be Wan Sandage Jr. Lucasfilm is never going to make any clarifications on this, so we might as well just make the assertion. I would like to see this article add the Kinect Star Wars info to the Biography and update the BTS. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 02:02, October 13, 2014 (UTC)
    • I would just like to note that I was the one who requested this change in the first place. I thought that based on the short lifespan of the species and the date placement that it would be too much to assert that the Kinect Star Wars character was Wan Sandage Jr.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 04:42, October 13, 2014 (UTC)
      • To be fair, Kinect only takes place two years after Revenge. It's just that we have a vague idea of when he was born. Obviously, it was within Wan Sandage's lifetime, which was 38 to 29... Although 29 is 5 or so years before Revenge, and 7 (I think) before Kinect. So Jr. probably would be fairly old already by Revenge. Hm... --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 01:53, October 14, 2014 (UTC)
        • Whelp, Kinect information is back in the body.--Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 22:48, October 15, 2014 (UTC)
          • Just noting that EJ and I discussed and resolved this over IRC. Now that you've added the Kinect info to the body, I think a corresponding minor expansion to the intro is in order. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 16:03, October 20, 2014 (UTC)
  • Given that you are now adding the Kinect info to the body, there is significant information that can be added to the Equipment section regarding his personal attire; namely, his sunglasses and what by all outward appearances look to be a neck brace (whether the result of injury or as a protective measure, I'm not sure). You might also mention the fact that, like his father, Jr. ties his "sideburns," for lack of a better word, into beads. Alternatively, if there is any indication from the game that specifically connects these items to his personality, you could add some of this to the P/T instead, though don't make extrapolations if there isn't anything to go by.
  • I've also now moved the Kinect Sandage image into the body of the article. Please replace the old BTS image caption with something in-universe.
    • It's concept art, though. It was on Aubin's portfolio. I'm pretty sure it reflects the final design, but it's still not in-universe, imo. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 18:06, October 20, 2014 (UTC)
      • Although, truthfully, I'd rather just remove the image because of its size, and that it makes things very cluttered looking. I'd then move the first body image under "On the Podracing circuit" --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 17:25, October 21, 2014 (UTC)
        • Before I respond, are there no other images and/or quotes to be found for Wan Sandage Jr. from anything? Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 20:56, October 21, 2014 (UTC)
          • I'll have to check some videos for Kinect on the quotes, but for images, only if you want some possibly-shoddy Youtube screencap, which I would then replace the body image with, just to keep things looking uncluttered. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 03:22, October 22, 2014 (UTC)
            • Eh, if there's a good in-game Kinect image to be had, which I'm now assuming there is given your response here, it's your responsibility to get it for the sake of properly illustrating the article, which is an FAN requirement. Not having the game to get a good-quality image isn't an excuse for not getting one. And I say that not with the intention of replacing the current Biography image, because I think that section can easily hold two. Please consider the lack of a good Kinect image a formal objection. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 03:27, October 22, 2014 (UTC)
              • It may hold two, but it'd look awful. I got the best shot of his Podracer that I could from a complete set of videos. I have one shot of himself, as well, but it's rather blurry. If you'd like to see it anyways I'll upload that too, but I don't know where it'd fit well. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 01:36, October 25, 2014 (UTC)
                • I'm not even entertaining a discussion about how many images can and cannot fit in the Bio until you upload an image of sufficient quality of Wan Sandage Jr. from Kinect. My objection asked for a picture of the character, not an image of his racer. The image you uploaded is beyond terrible. You should remove it and re-add the other image of his podracer. This character-image objection is still not resolved, and I'm going to reiterate my point that your inability to get a decent-quality image from the game is not an excuse. I'm going to quote another Wookieepedian who is monitoring this discussion: "If he's not willing to get the game, then he shouldn't be nominating the article." Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 01:40, October 25, 2014 (UTC)
                  • Harsh as fucking hell, but understandable. The picture of him in-gear isn't much better, and it's not an excuse. It's just how it is. No, maybe I shouldn't be nomming an article if I can't pay the $300+ dollars to buy the article (Xbox 360, Game, and HD Recording device). Also, you did not specify an "image of the character" anywhere. Please re-read your comments before re-iterating statements. I'm looking for images, but it ain't easy-peasy. Maybe we should find someone who can get good images. A few days ago I already posted a thread in the Project:Video Games forum to see if anyone might have the game and a good-to do recording device. As of my last check, moments before posting this comment, no replies so far (Should I try one of the general forums? Probably a better response, if one at all. I'm guessing.... Knowledge Bank?). And tell your lurker it has nothing to do with willingness. I'd love to get my hands on a copy of the damned game, but free money doesn't grow on trees. If he wants to donate, I'll give him the PayPal address to deposit funds. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 03:02, October 25, 2014 (UTC)
                    • I wonder if another option would be to just reinstate the Concept Art, and keep it in the BTS section. It does represent Sandage's final design in the game, and is of good quality. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 14:59, October 26, 2014 (UTC)
                      • I gave this discussion some time to mellow out, since it was clear you were getting pretty upset. But I'm going to reiterate my objection that an in-universe image of Wan Sandage from Kinect Star Wars of sufficient quality be added to this article. There is definitely enough room to fit two images in the Biography; the Racer Revenge image can be placed in the first subsection, aligned right, and one from Kinect can be placed in the second subsection, aligned left. That provides aesthetically-pleasing image alternating then for the next image, of the Podracer in the Equipment section, aligned right. And finally, the Kinect concept art image should be added to the BTS, also aligned right. I'm saying this politely but firmly: It's your responsibility to get a quality image from Kinect. Your inability to get one is not an excuse to try and find a workaround for this objection. FAN Rule 16 states that nominations must "include a reasonable number of images of sufficient quality to illustrate the article, if said images are available." Keep trying to find something. YouTube isn't a terrible option if the images are quality enough. Oftentimes, that's where we find the majority of our video game images anyway. See what you can come up with, and I'll let you know if I think the images are of good enough quality. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 20:38, November 21, 2014 (UTC)
                        • Well, I'll see what I can do. I actually have something that's supposed to be used with a game system as a form of recording videos or screenshots, but I don't know how well it works. I might know someone with the game. I think Youtube is out of the question for this character, as he was never a focus point, unlike say, this image of Aldar Beedo. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 05:17, November 24, 2014 (UTC)
  • And may I ask where you got the infobox image from? Specifically, is it from a pdf or did you manually scan/upload it? Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 16:03, October 20, 2014 (UTC)
    • Screenshot straight from Racer Revenge. The old infobox image was a poor scan, however. I was using a Playstation 2 emulator with my copy of the game. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 18:06, October 20, 2014 (UTC)

Comments

  • It has been quite a while now, and I have had no good success on acquiring the materials I need to get the needed image. I do have one image from the game, from a Youtube video, but it isn't very good in my opinion. I can upload it to imgur, home Internet permitting, but I don't think this will happen some time down the line. I suppose it can always be re-nommed at a later date if/when the image can be uploaded, and then any other details that can be reworked then (Or now, and just save the image for the very last thing). I think the cut off for is two weeks for an un-attended objection? And it's either past that or close, so may as well stop clogging the FA nom page (Though if the cutoff date has yet to arrive, I suppose let it run its course if somehow I get what I need). Sorry... Again. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 00:29, December 11, 2014 (UTC)