Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Vodo-Siosk Baas

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Vodo-Siosk Baas

  • Nominated by: —Tommy 9281 Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 21:18 UTC
  • Nomination comments: "Krevaaki don't fry in the kitchun, Bouncers don't burn on the greeil…"

(3 Inqs/5 Users/8 Total)

Support

  1. Jeedai maistah. –Tm_T (Talk) 15:36, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
  2. Always thought he was the coolest Jedi Master in TOTJ. ~SavageBOB sig 16:02, August 5, 2011 (UTC)
  3. Inqvote Happy to be the first Inq to review. --Eyrezer 03:55, October 29, 2011 (UTC)
  4. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 17:12, November 24, 2011 (UTC)
  5. Besides one redlink in the Sources list, it looks good. Great job.—Cal JediInfinite Empire (Personal Comm Channel) 03:48, January 19, 2012 (UTC)
  6. Cool, yet underrated character. Plagueis327 01:59, January 21, 2012 (UTC)
  7. Inqvote CC7567 (talk) 04:18, January 27, 2012 (UTC)
  8. Inqvote Menkooroo 02:23, March 5, 2012 (UTC)

Object

Tm
  • Only one for now: I would like to have some era/time specified when introducing him on the beginning of the Bio, something similar as in the intro: "...into the onset of the Old Sith Wars." –Tm_T (Talk) 08:31, June 23, 2011 (UTC)
    • Addressed. Thanks for the reviews, Tm. Please advise if anything further is required.—Tommy 9281 Thursday, June 23, 2011, 10:43 UTC
Morrt
  • Missing appearance of Tales of the Jedi: The Sith War 1: Edge of the Whirlwind where he is mentioned by Exar Kun.
    • Addressed.
  • The automatons were ultimately decimated, but not before casualties were suffered among the Jedi ranks, Arca Jeth among the most grievous of them. I am not much of a reviewer, but isn't grievous a little POVish here? The loss of Arca is a grievous casualty for the Jedi, but fortunate casualty for Ketos.
    • We are speaking from the Jedi's POV, to whom Jeth's death is grievous, which can be corroborated several times over throughout the source material if necessary.—Tommy 9281 Friday, June 24, 2011, 10:47 UTC
  • I still maintain that Vodo-Siosk Baas's holocron is the same device as the Tedryn Holocron. I can't find any strong reason to keep them separate. In the audio drama, they speak about your holocron and my holocron, but IMO it does not necessary means my-holocron-which-in-not-the-same-as-Tedryn-which-is-the-only-confirmed-holocron-in-my-possession. Furthermore, in TOTJ:TSW 1, there is the first mention of the Tedryn Holocron, and it is clear that the comic writers wanted the unnamed holocron in Vodo's possession to be called Tedryn Holocron. The EGTC's Baas entry contradicts the souces which it is based on. Should we continue the discussion here or take it to the Senate Hall? Darth Morrt 10:12, June 24, 2011 (UTC)
    • I've considered your opinion, and I have to say that it holds no weight given the facts. The mention of the Tedryn holocron in TSW1 is no indication that Baas did not possess one of his own, as Exar Kun makes no connection to the Tedryn holocron being that which he studied in DLOTS1, nor is it indicative of any authorial intent. It is pointless to continue this discussion here or elsewhere any further because the current material gives more weight to them being separate devices than the same. I thank you and appreciate your review, Darth Morrt, and am respectfully asking you to reconsider your position.—Tommy 9281 Friday, June 24, 2011, 10:47 UTC
      • (This asterisc is not an objection, move along.) I still disagree with you, but this is not relevant to this nomination here, and I don't want to delay this nom, so I've stiken my objection. However, I will open a Senate Hall discussion soon, where I will collent all my arguments for these devices being the same. About a year ago, I've done much research in the topic of Tedryn Holocron, and I think the EGTC is simple wrong, misinterpreting the sources it is based on. "nor is it indicative of any authorial intent" - First Exar studies a holocron in possession of Vodo, then Exar states that Vodo is the keeper of the Tedryn Holocron. Common sense tells me the authors are referring to the same holocron. — Darth Morrt 13:44, June 24, 2011 (UTC)
Prepare to be savaged…
  • I'm a bit unsure about some of the language in the intro: "served ... with distinction," "legendary," "malevolent wiles," "abandoned his master's wisdom," "infamous Krath cult", "ominous implications," "in contemplation of Sith ascendance born totally of his negligence," "galactic tyranny," "forbidden knowledge." A lot of this seems to privilege the Jedi's point of view of things. I think maybe the language needs to be toned down or qualified, stating, for example, "knowledge forbidden by the Jedi," or "legendary among the Jedi" or whatever needs to be done. I'll continue with a review of the rest of the article soon. ~SavageBOB sig 21:39, July 31, 2011 (UTC)
    • Try that, let me know if you think more is required.—Tommy 9281 Sunday, July 31, 2011, 22:08 UTC
      • It's better, but I'm still having a problem with the overall hagiographic tone in a few places. The intro still uses a lot of POV terms to describe Baas, and this is carried through somewhat in the body. Here's what I've got circled throughout my print-out: legendary; well-versed historian; valiant efforts; Master's wisdom; ill-conceived infiltration; his negligence; tyranny; distinguished service; plagued by terrorism; a great Master; under the tyranny; the most grievous of them; blatant insubordination; ill-conceived idea; legendary Jedi Master; his blunder; pious warrior/His devotion [I changed the first "devout" to "pious" to avoid the devout/devotion use too close together]. I realize you're going for a kind of poetic writing style here, and that's cool with me. But some of it comes off more as encomium and not as objective. I know that most of these words have perfectly non-POV definitions, like "legendary" meaning "based on legends" or "famous." But the connotation is eulogistic, which I think is what I'm responding to here; taken as a whole, the article reads (at least in places) as a tribute to Baas and not as an objective encyclopedia article, in my opinion.
      • Thing is, I can source every single one of those statements. Specifically.—Tommy 9281 Thursday, August 4, 2011, 21:48 UTC
        • I don't doubt it! ~SavageBOB sig 14:28, August 5, 2011 (UTC)
  • Other than that, I found very little to comment on. First, I know you're trying to avoid repeating "Tedryn" two times in close quarters, but "ancient Jedi Master of the same name" is a bit ambiguous because it could also refer to Baas.
    • Addressed.
  • "further ruined the already flawed lightsaber" -- Here, I don't understand the "further" -- when did it start to go ruined?
    • It doesn't say. It just says that it was already bad, and that she messed it up further.—Tommy 9281 Thursday, August 4, 2011, 21:48 UTC
  • "intended to power her weapon" -- My lightsaber knowledge is admittedly limited, but it's my understanding that the crystals don't power the sabers so much as focus them. Not so?
    • Addressed.
  • "he established a new environment for students to learn from him as ever they had the ways of the Jedi." Do you mean "as they always had"? It's a bit hard to follow.
    • Addressed.
  • "While the dark side had been defeated on Onderon, artifacts of malevolence possessed by individuals eager to unlock their secrets escaped the Inner Rim to continue the practice of Sith magic elsewhere." This too is hard to follow. The subject is "artifacts," but it sounds like the "individuals" are the ones continuing the practice of Sith magic, I think?
    • Addressed.
  • There's one image that I think needs a redo: It's my understanding that if the full speech bubble is present, we're not supposed to remove the dialogue, so check out the image with the caption, "Vodo-Siosk Baas and the Jedi Assembly give audience to young Knights."
    • That one is an exception. It is the best quality of the image there will be for the foreseeable future. To rescan with the text would lessen the quality considerably.—Tommy 9281 Thursday, August 4, 2011, 21:48 UTC
      • Why's that? Is Thon saying something off-color? (Seriously, though, why the exception here?)
        • A rescan with the words would be of lesser quality without the likes of Greyman or Redemption to perfect it. They've been attempted before for this image, and were all rejected.—Tommy 9281 Friday, August 5, 2011, 15:40 UTC
          • <shrug> At the end of the day, it's just an image, so non-perfect is fine with me. But I won't hold up the nom over it. ~SavageBOB sig 16:02, August 5, 2011 (UTC)
  • I think the last two paragraphs of "Wayward apprentice" might need to be shortened a bit to avoid PBP. For instance, is Crado's reaction to defeat pertinent to Baas's article? Sylvar's rage? Qel-Droma and Sunrider's confounding?
    • Check it out.
  • "as the only way was through the dark side once the path had been embarked on." I'm not sure what is meant here.
    • Over-context. Removed.
  • "much to the dismay--but also suspicion--of the present Jedi." By suspicion, do you mean it confirmed their suspicious or that they were suspicious of Ulic's complicity?
    • Addressed.
  • "and/or" -- Really ugly term, so is it possible to reword and avoid it?
    • Addressed.
  • "A ballad that melodiously detailed..." I'd ditch "melodiously" here, as the term "ballad" suggests as much.
    • Addressed.
  • Do you think it's necessary to go into so much detail about Baas's anatomy under P&T? We don't do this for most alien characters, so might be a place to trim back.
    • Addressed.
      • I actually think you removed much of the stuff that wasn't TMI in this section. I was objecting to the description of Baas's anatomy, but not the description of how he dressed or wrapped his tentacles. In other words, the stuff that's unique to him should probably stay in. ~SavageBOB sig 14:28, August 5, 2011 (UTC)
        • Check it out now.—Tommy 9281 Friday, August 5, 2011, 15:40 UTC
  • Miniatures gamers would probably disagree with you that Star Wars Miniatures uses action figures. Perhaps substitute something like "plastic effigy" if you want to avoid the term "miniature"? Tis all. Nice job, Tommy. ~SavageBOB sig 16:29, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
    • Thanks for the review, Bob. Please advise if anything further is required.—Tommy 9281 Thursday, August 4, 2011, 21:48 UTC
      • P.S.—I'll be employing you straightaway ;)—Tommy 9281 Thursday, August 4, 2011, 21:48 UTC
        • Just know that I don't do windows. ;P ~SavageBOB sig 14:28, August 5, 2011 (UTC)
Eyrezer
  • "Of all who volunteered, five were chosen: the Gotal Kith Kark, Dace Diath, Shoaneb Culu, Nomi Sunrider, and Qrrrl Toq, the latter four of whom were all apprentices of Vodo-Siosk Baas.[4]" From what precedes this, it really is not clear the Sunrider has become one of Baas' apprentices. Is this the case? If so, can you expand on how/when this happens?
    • Addressed via "Vodo-Siosk Baas met with a Tchuukthai Master called Thon and assumed tutelage of his apprentice, Nomi Sunrider, whom Baas was to guide in the creation of her own lightsaber."
  • "Baas was among several Masters in meditation on Ossus who foresaw Qel-Droma's inevitable seduction to the dark side, and he staunchly advocated against attempts to dissuade the young Jedi from his chosen path." This seems to contradict what is written in "The coming storm"; namely, you state that "It was because of the obvious folly in Qel-Droma's plan that Baas, on behalf of the Jedi Assembly, denied the young Human permission to undertake such a dangerous mission."
    • Addressed.
  • "Of Baas' apprentices who survived the Great Sith War, several achieved legendary status, both on their homeworlds, and in the galaxy at large." Can you please state which two?
    • Addressed.
  • Apart from those, an enjoyable return to TOTJ goodness. --Eyrezer 10:19, October 28, 2011 (UTC)
    • Thanks for the review, Eyr. Please advise if anything further is required.—Tommy 9281 Saturday, October 29, 2011, 02:19 UTC
QGJ
  • In the intro, the way you link craftsbeing mid-word looks kinda weird. Can you find another way around this?
    • Addressed.
  • The atrocities committed by the Sith were largely attributed to Baas' failure to prevent his fall to the dark side. It's not clear whom "his" refers to here.
    • Addressed.
  • As with Arca Jeth, there's a bit of extraneous first name usage in my opinion. I'm not asking to remove every single one, but several repeated first names can be safely removed without harming the prose.
    • Addressed.
  • Aside from those, great job, Tommy. Love the writing style. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 21:16, November 19, 2011 (UTC)
    • Thanks for the review, Qui Gon. Please advise if anything further is required.—Tommy 9281 Saturday, November 19, 2011, 23:08 UTC
Attack of the Clone
  • "His Onderon-bound students were successful in their mission and permanently drove the influence of the dark side from the planet." Any event/mission/battle article that can be linked here?
    • Addressed.
  • Instead of introducing the Republic all the way down in "Wayward apprentice," it might be worth explaining Bass's connections to the Republic as a member of the Jedi Order early on in the Bio, if applicable. See what you think.
    • Addressed.
  • "an age-old prophesy that spoke of the return of the Dark Lords of the Sith": first of all, does it say "prophesy" or "prophecy"? The latter's the noun, and the former's the verb, so please check. Also, is there an article that can be linked here about this prophecy?
    • Addressed the first part, and there isn't an article to my knowledge. Its just a vague mention, so let me know if you think it necessary for creation. I have no problem either way.—Tommy 9281 Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 03:07 UTC
      • Even if it's only an indirect mention, yeah, it sounds like it should get an article since it exists in canon. CC7567 (talk) 19:02, January 19, 2012 (UTC)
        • Redlink created, I will make the article shortly.—Tommy 9281 Thursday, January 26, 2012, 01:02 UTC
  • I'm not sure exactly where this would work, but would it be prudent to link to Dark Jedi when referring to Kun before he officially becomes a Sith Lord, at least in the Bio and perhaps in the intro too?
    • Addressed.
  • "ancient prophecy that foretold the return of the Sith": same as above. Would it be appropriate to give this prophecy an article?
    • Let me know per above.—Tommy 9281 Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 03:07 UTC
  • It doesn't seem like the Tales of the Jedi series itself is directly mentioned in the Bts; given his prominence in the series, I would suggest referring to it at least when you start talking about his TOTJ appearances.
    • Addressed.
  • Great work, Tommy. A refreshingly pleasant read. CC7567 (talk) 20:54, December 24, 2011 (UTC)
    • Thanks for the review, CC. Please advise if anything further is required.—Tommy 9281 Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 03:07 UTC
Quick one
  • From a quick glance, File:DLotS6meeting.jpg needs a rescan with the speech intact per our image policy. Luckily there are ways to add the speech in without sacrificing Redemption quality, as Culator did here. He might be able to help. Menkooroo 15:24, January 27, 2012 (UTC)
    • Blarg. Done. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 20:43, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
      • Sorry to drag you into this. :S :P I really need to become a better image guy. Menkooroo 18:09, February 5, 2012 (UTC)
  • The coming storm indicates that Baas meets with the other Masters every day for months after Deneba to meditate, but this information isn't presented until after the bio states that several months pass. For chronology's sake, can you detail this information before moving several months down the timeline, rather than backtracking? Menkooroo 03:32, February 1, 2012 (UTC)
    • I don't understand how that is chronologically incorrect. To say it earlier would require saying something like "Bass would meet meet every day with the assembly in the months that followed" or something to that effect, which is inappropriate.—Tommy 9281 Monday, February 13, 2012, 20:41 UTC
      • Yup, "For the next several months, Vodo met daily with the other Masters" would be much more chronologically appropriate than "For the past several months, Vodo had been meeting with the other Masters," which kind of comes off as a "By the way, this happened earlier" statement. Menkooroo 20:51, February 13, 2012 (UTC)
        • Even though this objection is coming up on three weeks old, I've taken care of it as well as my objection below, in order for the nom to pass. Menkooroo 02:23, March 5, 2012 (UTC)
  • During the Attack on Coruscant, don't the Jedi team and Netus fight their way to the war room? If so, can you give more detail than "The Jedi rushed the war room?"
    • Addressed.
  • If Vodo appears in a holocron in Dark Apprentice, the "Vodo-Siosk Baas was first mentioned in Dark Apprentice" in the BTS doesn't seem quite right. Can you tweak it?
    • Addressed.
  • That's all I have! A great article on an interesting character. Menkooroo 04:58, February 2, 2012 (UTC)
    • Thanks for the review, Menkooroo. Please advise if anything further is required.—Tommy 9281 Monday, February 13, 2012, 20:41 UTC
  • One more: There seems to be some missing information regarding an interaction between Vodo and Shoaneb prior to the Freedon Nadd Uprising. Menkooroo 06:30, February 17, 2012 (UTC)

Comments

  • Darth Morrt was able to clear up the holocron discrepancy with Leland Chee, and I was mistaken. Therefore, I have made the appropriate adjustments to the article. Thank you Darth Morrt for your perseverance in the pursuit of the correct answer.—Tommy 9281 Tuesday, July 12, 2011, 04:22 UTC
    • Out of curiosity, what was the discrepancy? I looked for it in the BTS but coud not see anything on it. --Eyrezer 03:55, October 29, 2011 (UTC)
      • I was under the impression that Vodo had his own holocron, but it was the Tedryn the whole time.—Tommy 9281 Saturday, October 29, 2011, 10:05 UTC

Approved as a Featured article by Inquisitorius 02:23, March 5, 2012 (UTC)