Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Tholme/Legends (second nomination)

< Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations
The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Tholme

  • Nominated by: Thefourdotelipsis 13:26, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments: So, what you're telling me, is that the single most badass image on Wookieepedia could be on the front page again? Sold.
    • Apparently this is not the case. Y'all suck as a result. Thefourdotelipsis 07:52, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

(3 Inqs/4 Users/7 Total)

Support

  1. StarNeptuneTalk to me! 07:47, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  2. Inqvote -- Darth Culator (Talk) 15:12, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  3. "Excellent!", Farl Watson cried. "Elementary." said Fourdot Tholmes. --Skippy Farlstendoiro 13:54, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
  4. Is T'ra Saa next?--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 01:52, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
  5. Inqvote CC7567 (talk) 01:50, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
  6. Inqvote Cavalier OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 14:18, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
  7. Nice. :) -- 1358 (Talk) 06:04, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

Object

Star:
  • "Vos was subsequently dispatched by the Council to Kiffex, to investigate a massacre of a security compound, at the insistence of his aunt Tinté." That sentence reads a little awkwardly to me.
    • Tweaked.
  • "He provided Mace Windu with intelligence about a group of Jedi who were conscientious objectors to the war, and refused to return to Coruscant to take up arms. Acting on this, Windu journeyed to Ruul to settle the matter..." Maybe add that the group of dissident Jedi have gathered on Ruul in order to clarify why Windu is going there. :) Oh, and did Tholme refuse to take up arms as well, because that is how the sentence read to me.
    • Tweaked.
  • "Vos eventually returned to the Republic, and explained Tholme's plan to the rest of the Jedi, and with that the necessity for the secrecy over the past years." Maybe reword this a bit?
    • Reworded.
  • "Despite the fact that Tholme was a firm believer in the old ways of the Jedi, as noted by Count Dooku during their duel on Bakura." This appears to be an incomplete sentence.
    • Silly me. Fixed.
  • Not an objection per se, as I don't exactly know what policy is for this, but shouldn't Tholme's infobox say that he died after "some time after 19 BBY", sourced to the Legacy comic?
    • Well, he might have died in 19 BBY itself... originally it said "Before 137 BBY," but that seems a bit... obvious. I could work it so it's "19 BBY or sometime after," which do you think would work best?
      • I agree that it does seem obvious. I perused some articles on the wiki for any precedents for this situation. The Luke Skywalker article has "Unknown, between 44 ABY and 137 ABY", which seems to be a good way of doing it. StarNeptuneTalk to me! 06:56, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
        • People are allergic to the word "Unknown" round these here parts, but I did the rest. Thefourdotelipsis 07:20, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
          • It's all good.
  • And I'm out. StarNeptuneTalk to me! 15:40, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
    • Thanks for the review. Good to see you back, Star. Thefourdotelipsis 01:22, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
Farlstendoiro: Elementary
  • Underlinking. Blood, death, prisoner, day, Padawan, bacta, droid/security droid, ship, flagship... Please review the whole article.
    • I believe I have addressed this. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 14:56, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
      • At least you've address it to my satisfaction. Didn't know you were working together for this nom. --Skippy Farlstendoiro 15:08, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
        • Not as such, no. He just asked me to check the linking and I happened to have nothing better to do. :-P -- Darth Culator (Talk) 15:12, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • Bio/Jedi Watchman: Context: What are the "Anzati arts"? Something deserving an article? Traditional music and architecture in the Anzati culture? Something related to the Jedi?
  • Also: "In addition to those talents, he became proficient at espionage and stealth". This is ambiguous: Did Akku Seii train Tholme at this, or did Tholme learned from other people?
    • It is deliberately ambiguous, as we do not know if it was specifically from Sei's training. However, much like in the source itself, the implication is there. Thefourdotelipsis
  • Context on Katichak. He was a murderer or something, that would be enough.
  • "For some reason, knowledge of Vos's high..." Could you reword "For some reason"? After all, you are not giving information with those words, and it sounds un-encyclopedic to me.
  • The intro says that Tholme specifically resigned as Watchman to train Quinlan; the bio says that he instructed Quinlan and that he resigned as Watchman, in a not neccessarily related move that might have taken place years after starting Quinlan's training. Which one is it?
  • "She made a deal with the Anzati who had come to Kiffex in search of the legendary Dark Jedi Volfe Karkko." You have not mentioned these Anzati before. Suggestion: "with a group of Anzati."
  • Bio/The training. Could you give some context to the opening quote?
  • 2nd paragraph of "The training". You assume the reader is familiar with the relation between Clan Secura and Ryloth. Please give more context.
  • "the Stark Jedi operations." I don't get it. Did Stark collaborate with the Jedi?
  • More to come. Skippy Farlstendoiro 11:55, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • One minor thing: "Fortunately for Tholme and T'ra Saa, Order 66, in which Jedi across the galaxy were gunned down by their Clone troopers, went through while they were on Nar Shaddaa, meeting up with Vos's lover, Hentz." Without taking some effort to parse it, this reads as if Order 66 was fortunate for them. Maybe rearrange it just a bit? -- Darth Culator (Talk) 14:56, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
Farl is back, with more context and reword requests. You know, 'coz I could find nothing else to object.
  • 1st-mention context for Mace Windu & Sora Bulq ("Jedi Masters" would be enough)
  • Bio/The Training: "fill the gaps" sounds awfully un-encyclopedic.
    • Which is why it's in quotation marks. It's the wording used by the characters, since Tholme's training of Secura is a bit more informal than the norm. Thefourdotelipsis
  • "Fenn was planning to have Lon's son, Nat Secura, kidnapped in exchange for clemency." I understood this as Fenn saying "If you show me mercy, then as a payment, I will abduct Nat." You mean exactly the opposite. Please, reword.
    • I can't quite get me head around this one. Isn't it exactly the same thing? He will kidnap Nat if he is given clemency? Thefourdotelipsis
      • I think Fenn will kidnap Nat and then will blackmail Lon to get clemency for himself (for Fenn). The current way, it seems that Fenn negotiates with Lon and intends to kidnap Nat to gain Lon's sympathy, as if Nat's kidnapping was something that Lon wanted. --Skippy Farlstendoiro 13:44, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
        • Ah, gotcha. Is it now reworded to your satisfaction? Thefourdotelipsis 13:48, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
  • Same paragraph, ends with Secura realizing. Following sentence starts with Tholme realizing. Use a synonim for one.
  • You mention "dragging the boy away", but you have not specified that Nat was a boy - only that he was Lon's son. Add that information somewhere.
  • "One Morgukai was killed by Vos, the other supposedly dispatched by Secura" You probably can say which Morgukai was killed by whom.
  • "What would occur, however, was quite the opposite.[7]" While I appreciate you easeing the reading with figures, I still must appeal to NPOV.
  • Please considered using The Dark Woman's real name; and say that she and Fisto were Jedi Masters on 1st mention.
  • Context for the 327th Star Corps. Clone troops, I guess. Please note: at this point you have not even mentioned that the Clone Wars included Jedi leading clone troops.
  • "Tholme and T'ra Saa were able to escape Order 66, in which Jedi across the galaxy were gunned down by their Clone troopers, while they were on Nar Shaddaa, meeting up with Vos's lover, Hentz." Who were on Nar Shaddaa? Tholme and Saa? The Clone troopers? The Jedi across the galaxy? Why do you say "Clone troopers" with a Capital C? Oh, so many unanswered questions?
  • Context for Korto on his 1st mention.
  • Skippy Farlstendoiro 12:47, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
Vos! Vos!
  • I can't seem to find verification for the 55 BBY date you provide and cite to Darkness, Part 1. Could you clarify this for me?
    • Should have been cited to Part 2 anyway, but the date itself is a mystery to me. It's gone.
  • "Vos, who experienced his mother's death for a second time in his visions, attacked Tholme, who quickly sobered him." Specifically, why did he attack Tholme?
    • Added.
  • "Back on Coruscant, a Holocron had revealed information about Volfe Karkko, the fallen Jedi who had drawn the Anzati to Kiffex." How exactly did Tholme and the others find out about this?
    • Added.
  • Would it be possible to mention the Battle of Kamino in its proper chronological place, before the Battle of Lianna? The current placement implies the wrong chronology.
    • Fixed, I believe.
  • I believe that there's some more information regarding Vos and how he ended up on Brentaal IV to fight there that's relevant to Tholme. Tholme has a throwaway line in Jedi: Mace Windu that says that he has a mission for Vos on Brentaal IV, so that should be added to the article.
    • Added.
  • In Jedi: Aayla Secura, didn't Tholme give Secura a "message" from Vos about his turn to the Separatists? Can this be mentioned at all?
    • Done.
  • Could you clarify that Kuro and the Dark Woman are the same person somehow? The connection isn't clear in the article. Mentioning Kuro only as the Dark Woman might solve the problem.
    • Eh, I think it's important to have the real name in there, since Tholme was aware of it and used it. Hopefully it's explained well enough now, take a look.
  • Can anything be said of Tholme's revelation to Secura of Vos's deception in Show of Force, Part 1?
    • Done.
  • "Though his ploy was ultimately finished": this isn't really correct (as you do clarify later in the article), since Vos was still working for Dooku; can this be cleaned up? It leads the reader to misinterpret the info that you later mention during the Saleucami section.
    • Removed.
  • "He was still secretly operating as a double agent, or possibly even a triple agent": can this be worded less speculatively?
    • Changed.
  • Can the 137 ABY date be incorporated at all at the end of the bio?
    • Not... really. It's the IU date when we learn that Tholme is dead by that point, but there's no real justification for putting it into the bio. I could make a second reference for the death field though, clarifying it with a footnote, if you think that would be a good idea?
      • Unless the 19 BBY date can be sourced to the Legacy issue, yes, I think it would be a good idea to make a separate footnote. CC7567 (talk) 05:48, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
  • Can his healing abilities get a mention in the P&A section?
    • Yes, done.
  • I don't usually object to this, but are you sure that the Source list is complete? Though I can't back this up with evidence, I suspect that there are at least Fact File entries for him, at least in Vos's entries (since Tholme was his Master) if not in his own sections as well. Please try to check for this.
    • I will make inquiries.
      • Eh... better not strike this one yet. Don't trust me, I'm complacent. :P Thefourdotelipsis 06:03, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
        • Have it your way. CC7567 (talk) 06:11, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
          • OK, added to the source list. No new info, though. Thefourdotelipsis 00:58, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
  • In general, the source coverage objections that I've made make me a little hesitant about the level of the article's overall source coverage, which I'm currently finding to be a little less comprehensive than I'd expected. Please see if there's anything you can do to fix this. CC7567 (talk) 06:15, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
    • Well, you know, I was just sort of working from the Inq's grievances. It's a bit of an oldie, and from a time when brevity was more of a done thing and was still the soul of wit, but I realize that it seems as though a lot of the "He mentioned this" and "he alluded to that" stuff has been missing. I think you've spotted most of them, though. In terms of when he's actually doing stuff, though, I think it's pretty well covered. I went through the stuff back in the day, and it's pretty much up to speed when you're looking at actually pertinent biographical details. But of course, if you think there's some other stuff missing, specifically, let me know, and I'm only too happy to check for it. Thank you, though, for taking a look at this. I realize it's probably got a bit less spit and polish than would be expected, and for that I apologize. Thefourdotelipsis 12:55, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
Xd1358
  • "...successfully complete his.." is used twice in the bio's first paragraph. Perhaps remove the first "successfully"?
    • First one axed.
  • That Tholme took Vos as his first Padawan is mentioned twice, first in the fourth paragraph in the first section, and then in the second section's first paragraph. Please remove one mention.
    • Done.
  • The first paragraph of "The Anzati of Kiffex" focuses too much on Aayla and Vos. Could you cut down on it a small bit?
    • Hmm. It's kinda important to have the context for Vos' and later Secura's behavior, though.
  • "In Grahrk's secret lair, Tholme taught Vos more about his past, specifically, Tinté Vos's manipulation of him as a child." That should...well, weird. IMO, something like "Tholme taught Vos more about his past, specifically, Tinté's manipulation of Vos in his childhood." would flow better. If I misunderstood the sentence, ignore me.
    • Meh, nevermind. Removed "Vos's" to avoid any confusion... -- 1358 (Talk) 18:09, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
  • Reason why "holocron" is capitalized in "The Anzati on Kiffex", fourth paragraph?
    • Fixed.
  • So far, so good. :) -- 1358 (Talk) 17:59, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
  • "'He finally had a cybernetic leg installed, so he would be able to perform to the best of his abilities, and subsequently enlisted the help of Aayla Secura her clone trooper unit, the 327th Star Corps as backup." Aayla Secura and her clone trooper unit, or Aayla Secura's clone trooper unit? Please clarify.
    • Clarified.
  • The P&T seems to have info from the Clone Wars period only.
    • No, it's got stuff from Trackdown and Darkness too, as well as the CSWE. I've just used the Clone Wars examples as the specific ones.
  • That's it. Good job, Four Dot. -- 1358 (Talk) 19:51, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
    • Thanks for the review! Nice to see you on the FAN page! :D Thefourdotelipsis 02:11, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

Comments

  • FFA. I believe I've addressed the Inq's concerns with it that were cited in its removal. Thefourdotelipsis 13:26, May 22, 2010 (UTC)