Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Shimrra Jamaane

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Shimrra Jamaane

  • Nominated by: Chack Jadson (Talk) 21:11, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments: It is my pleasure to present to you Dread Lord Shimrra, Supreme Overlord of the Yuuzhan Vong.

(3 Inqs/4 Users/7 Total)

Support

  1. It is my pleasure to vote for Dread Lord Shimrra. Thou I doubt Yuuzhan Vong hierarchy has any use for democracy. --Skippy Farlstendoiro 06:17, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  2. If you were Jorrel, I could have said "An unpleasant duty has been masterfully performed, Jor-El." But you're not, so I'll just say "An unpleasant duty has been masterfully performed, Chack." Thefourdotelipsis 01:06, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
  3. Inqvote Xicer9Atgar(Combadge) 00:31, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
  4. Inqvote CC7567 (talk) 05:41, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
  5. The city's laid out from east to west, and our public parks and libraries are truly the best. JangFett (Talk) 01:45, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
  6. Inqvote --Eyrezer 01:08, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
  7. Menkooroo 08:24, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

Object

Farlstendoiro is deeply moved by this nom
  • In "The tide turns", you mention Nom Anor using the alias Yu'shaa to oppose Shimrra through the Jeedai heresy. Shimrra actively wants to kill Yu'shaa. Next thing we know about Anor (in "Dissidence and intrigue"), he has found Zonama Sekot and changed his strategy to blackmail Shimrra into an alliance with him. What ever happened to Yu'shaa? Did "Yu'shaa" simply disappear?
  • At the end of "The invasion begins", Shimrra has began slipping from Onimi's control. Onimi's later interventions do not mention his control on Shimrra until "Dissidence and intrigue", when Shimmra's "was completely insane, his mind twisted by Onimi's visions of power and hatred of the gods". What ever happened with him "slipping from his control"? Was he finally unable to achieve anything? Did Onimi ciment his position?
    • Onimi had already cemented himself, I'd say. The books don't really talk about this much, and I think that there's not much that can be said without going into the realm of OR. It is confirmed that regardless, by the events of TUF, Shimrra was absolutely nuts. Chack Jadson (Talk) 23:53, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
  • Shimrra is only mentioned to have hidden Anakin Solo's saber in his robes when he finally uses it, which is not a good chronological order. Please, mention this fact before (For example: "In his private quarters with Onimi and fifteen Slayers, Shimrra waited. Shimrra had hidden in his robes the lightsaber of Anakin Solo who had died yadda yadda")
  • "As Shimrra moved to decapitate Skywalker, the Jedi used the Force" As "Jedi" is both singular and plural, you could be talking about Skywalker using the Force, or the three Jedi (Luke and the twins) using the Force together. Please, avoid ambiguity.
  • P&T: "Shimrra was characterized by his (...) political skills." He lost a lot of support through the War; he isn't so good in politics IMHO.
    • Added a bit about how despite his political skills and manipulation, the others lost faith in him. Chack Jadson (Talk) 23:53, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
      • I'm sorry, I don't find this edition. Where's it exactly? --Skippy Farlstendoiro 06:49, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
        • "Despite his ability to intimidate and manipulate others, many Yuuzhan Vong had lost confidence in Shimrra." Does that suffice? I mean, sure the Vong lost the faith in him, but the books portray him as being skilled at manipulating and intimidating others, and it was only after several years of defeats of crazy decisions by Shimrra that they lost confidence in him. Chack Jadson (Talk) 22:41, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
  • P&T: I know this is difficult but, how much of his personality, ruthlessness and so is a personal trait of him (or of Onimi), and how much is simply the typical behavior for a member of his species and culture? Can this be specified? Probably most Yuuzhan Vong would kill people for heresy if it was in their power, for instance.
    • Added a small bit at the beginning of P&T about how he was vicious even for a Vong. Chack Jadson (Talk) 23:53, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
  • If you're bored now, WP:AS could use a featured article on the Yuuzhan Vong species ·;) Skippy Farlstendoiro 10:09, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
    • I've actually been toying with the idea of FAing the Vong, but I probably won't get around to it, just because it'd be so much work. Chack Jadson (Talk) 13:41, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
....
  • Just a couple of things: "A short time after this, Shimrra was interrupted from meditation," - Probably not the best way to start a new section. Even just "later" would be better in this circumstance, but I'll leave it up to you. Also, "The Supreme Overlord was dead." is just a touch too... not flowery, but it could probably be dialed down a tad, if you know what I mean. Also, it seems a little bit odd that you wouldn't put the one illustration of a moment in Shimmra's life... in the pertinent section. That's not an objection, more a query. Thefourdotelipsis 13:29, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
    • Adjusted the sentence. Changed up the second bit. As for the image, I don't like it, but because there are so few images there, I have to put the Onimi one there and the duel one in P&T. If I don't do that, then the P&T (a fairly long one, IMO) has no images. I'd prefer to have it in the relevant section but I feel like P&T needs an image. Would you object if I moved the duel image up, removed the Onimi one, and left P&T without an image? Chack Jadson (Talk) 16:53, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
      • I'm striking and supporting, since you've done that, but my suggestion would be to get a nice crop of burning Onimi and bung him in the P/T, but it's just personal preference really, either way is fine. I think it's just a bit more valuable to have that illustration there immediately in the last section, if you know what I mean. Thefourdotelipsis 01:06, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
Xicer
  • Intro: "…whereas Quoreal had made the decision to avoid the galaxy, due to the living planet Zonama Sekot, which he believed to be a sign of doom." I'm not following. Due to what about Zonama Sekot made the planet an omen? Did they discover that it was located in the galaxy and that's why Quoreal wanted to avoid it? Please clarify.
    • It was the just the planet's presence. Zonama Sekot was, according to their religion, basically something that spelled doom for the Vong. Added a few words that hopefully help. Chack Jadson (Talk) 00:26, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • Intro: "In 25 ABY, the Yuuzhan Vong War began." Slight context needed on the Vong war, it should at least be mentioned that the Vong invaded the galaxy, otherwise the next sentence seems rather confusing.
  • Intro: "In 29 ABY, Zonama Sekot appeared above Yuuzhan'tar, sparking riots and weakening Shimrra's already-declining power base." Why did Zonama Sekot cause riots? The planet's connection with the Vong should be given a slight mention somewhere in the intro.
    • Added a few words. If you don't like this, I've got another option to use. Chack Jadson (Talk) 00:26, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • Should the "Eighth" in "Eighth cortex" be capitalized? You capitalize it twice, but leave it lowercase in the second paragraph of "The invasion begins." I am unsure which is correct, since our article on it also seems to switch between the two.
  • P&T: "By 29 ABY, Shimrra had gone completely insane." In the bio, you source this to the Atlas, but in the P&T it's sourced to TUF. Does TUF also say he's insane, or is that exclusive to the Atlas? I just want to make sure.
    • It's basically implied on TUF, and outright stated in the Atlas, but I added an Atlas ref to the second reference to him being nuts. Chack Jadson (Talk) 00:26, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • P&T: Could that last sentence before the "Appearance" section be moved into an existing paragraph? I'm not too keen on one-sentence paragraphs, but if it doesn't fit anywhere else, then I suppose that's fine.
    • I'm not crazy about it, but I don't think there's anywhere it could go, since it's kind unrelated to most of the other content in the section. Chack Jadson (Talk) 00:26, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • And that's actually it. An extremely well-written article with a rock-solid body. Well done Chack, this was a joy to read. Xicer9Atgar(Combadge) 22:21, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
Attack of the Clone
  • "He conducted meetings from his palace, directing the Warmaster": Warmaster? What Warmaster? I may be missing something here, but please clarify.
  • "In her absence, Shimrra promoted Shaper Adept Qelah Kwaad": is it known specifically what he promoted her to? Can it be specified?
  • "Meanwhile, the Battle of Yuuzhan'tar was in full throe'"": I'm assuming that you mean something like "full throttle," but please clarify all the same.
    • I guess I combined "death throes" and "full throttle." :P Changed. Chack Jadson (Talk) 16:33, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
  • A refreshing read; quite clean overall. CC7567 (talk) 04:42, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
Puppetmaster
Eyrezer
  • Is it possible to expand the Bts? I was thinking of working the second paragraph about his origins into the first paragraph, so that it says something along the lines of while he was created at the outset of the NJO, etc, etc, he wasn't revealed until X, etc. The Bts just seems rather short at the moment for an otherwise long and well written article. --Eyrezer 22:30, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
    • Tried to add a little bit. Hopefully it's more comprehensive now. I just don't think there's that much BTS-type info on Shimrra (in comparison to Nom Anor, for instance). Chack Jadson (Talk) 14:22, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
      • I've rewritten it. Hope you don't mind. Seems like Luceno had a pretty important role in it all, really. --Eyrezer 19:44, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • When was Shimrra's "last" name revealed? I was looking for a {{1stID}} tag, but I can't see one. --Eyrezer 22:03, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
    • The Millennium Falcon audiobook. I added that in the appearances. Chack Jadson (Talk) 16:59, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
.
  • There's a few sentences in the BtS that aren't self-sourcing. E.g. "after receiving mentions in several novels throughout the series" and "as he was given a major role in several books" -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 22:09, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
Puppetmaster II
  • A very well-researched and extensively-written article. However, I'm worried that it's often too detailed. There seem to be a lot of instances of play-by-play, mostly involving Shimrra speaking with his underlings, and a bit of extraneous detail, too. In particular:
    • I tried to trim down the most egregious examples. If you seen any other instances, please point them out. I'm just trying to be as detailed as possible. Hopefully it's good now. Chack Jadson (Talk) 23:29, July 16, 2010 (UTC)
  • "After finishing his interrogation of Anor, he began speaking to High Master Shaper Ch'Gang Hool, who was..." is one of many instances of "after speaking with A, he spoke with B, then said something to A" that could probably be condensed.
  • When he's talking with Sal-Solo, three consecutive sentences begin with "Shimrra informed him… Shimrra stated… He also informed…"
  • "Anor explained that he saw the necessity in Shimrra's decision to overthrow Quoreal, and also stated that he remained open to believing in the gods. Shimrra then revealed to Anor…" is pbp, and is more about Nom than Shimrra.
  • Sometimes the level of detail attributed to characters other than Shimrra distracts from the fact that this article is about him. Eg, "Knowing that Shimrra would have him killed if the Supreme Overlord learned that Anor was Yu'shaa, the former Executor did not reveal this fact to Shimrra" and "As many of the Shamed Ones defiantly met their death, Nom Anor was stunned to see Shimrra laughing."
    • Fixed those instances. See my first comment for the res. Chack Jadson (Talk) 23:29, July 16, 2010 (UTC)
  • I know that most of Shimrra's scenes involve him speaking with large groups of people, but the article should make an effort to convey the important aspects of those scenes without the constant "Shimrra said, Shimrra stated, Shimrra informed...". Otherwise, the article is fantastic.
  • One more small thing --- as the planet was still known as Mon Calamari in 29 ABY, it should be referred to as such in this article and pipelinked to Dac. Cheers! Menkooroo 00:58, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Comments

Approved as a Featured article by Inquisitorius 08:28, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

  • A few notes. The old article stated that he was born on a worldship and was of the Intendant caste before becoming the Supreme Overlord. However, I could not find this info in any source, so if you know where it is, please let me know. Second, the timeline is a bit fuzzy on some things. One example of this is that we don't know if Shimrra overthrew Quoreal, then Onimi took control of him, or Onimi took control of him and then Shimrra launched his coup. I chose the latter, because I feel it is more supported by canon. We also don't know exactly when Onimi began losing control of Shimrra, but I think the date I picked is approximately right (I also tried to keep it somewhat vague). Third, we don't really know how much of Shimrra's personality is his, and how much is Onimi's. I think the way I presented it works well, in that I say "much of what he did was at Onimi's direction," then detail his actions and traits. Finally, there are some parts (particularly the first section), where I have massive amounts of context. I feel that all of that is necessary because of how complex the NJO is. It has the luxury of explaining all this info in small increments over 20 books, whereas I get one article. Some things require a lot of explaining, or readers would be confused, and although the info may at first appear to be irrelevant, I don't think it is. Simply put, the NJO is complicated. Anyway, that's it, and I hope you enjoy my nom. Chack Jadson (Talk) 21:11, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
  • Not going to put this as an objection, but in Millennium Falcon (novel_, while remembering the Yuuzhan Vong war, Han Solo clearly calls him by the full name Shimrra Jamaane. Shouldn't his page me moved accordingly? We have Tsavong Lah of Domain Lah. Every other character page title is their full name. Why not this one? - JMAS Jolly Trooper Hey, it's me! 00:25, May 20, 2010 (UTC)
    • It's been moved to Shimrra Jamaane. However, I still refer to him by his first name rather than his last because he never goes by "Jamaane." He's only referred to in "Shimrra Jamaane" in canon twice, IIRC; every single other mention calls him just "Shimrra." Oh, and if you dislike this, please start a conversation on my talk page rather than objecting. Chack Jadson (Talk) 00:03, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
  • Possibly you could add an IPA {{pronounced}} tag in the intro. JangFett (Talk) 01:54, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
    • I always do my thanking as one, down here (just 'cause I'm weird :P ). Anyway, thanks to all who reviewed this. Hopefully you enjoyed it as much as I did. Chack Jadson (Talk) 16:59, July 7, 2010 (UTC)