Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Ravilan

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Ravilan

(4 Inqs/3 Users/7 Total)

Support

  1. Good job. Thefourdotelipsis 11:46, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
  2. Excellent article, especially as it's your first. NAYAYEN:TALK 22:29, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
  3. Looked over the article, and it's great.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 23:25, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
  4. Inqvote Fantastic work for a first nom; I hope to see more from you in the future. :) Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 23:13, July 25, 2010 (UTC)
  5. Inqvote I would have sworn I did this earlier... Chack Jadson (Talk) 13:55, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
  6. Inqvote CC7567 (talk) 21:52, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
  7. Inqvote Nice work on this article. --Eyrezer 22:44, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

Object

Smells like bisque
  • I think the intro is a tad engorged, and could probably stand to be pruned somewhat.
    • I attempted to improve it, though I don't think I succeeded too much.... I'll keep looking at it.
      • No, that's good. Just a bit of pruning. It's a relatively long article, so that length is just fine.
  • "The shielding failed first, then the bulkheads gave, and then the armory exploded, but in hyperspace, the effect was not the same; instead of exploding and destroying a large part of the ship and the Massassi on board near to it, the armory simply vanished, taking along a large portion of the quarterdeck with it." - A bit clunky.
    • Re-worded.
      • "and where the armory should have exploded, it simply vanished, taking a large portion of the quarterdeck with it." - This is still a bit odd. I'm not quite sure what you mean here.
        • I added a bit of extra information to explain more what is going, on, but I will re-word that later. What the ebook says is this: "Commander Korsin had never felt an encounter with a gravity well in hyperspace, and neither had any of his crew. Stories required survivors. But it felt as though space itself had yawned open near the passing Omen, kneading at the ship’s alloyed superstructure like putty. It lasted but a fraction of a second, if time even existed there. The escape was worse than the contact. A sickly snap, and shielding failed. Bulkheads gave. And then, the armory. The armory had exploded. That was easy enough to know from the gaping hole in the underside of the ship. That it had exploded in hyperspace was a matter of inference: they were still alive. Grenades, bombs, and all the other pleasantries his secondary cargo, the Massassi, were taking to Kirrek would have gone up in a theatrical flourish, taking the ship with it. But instead the armory had simply vanished—along with an impressive chunk of Omen’s quarterdeck. The physics in hyperspace were unpredictable by definition; instead of exploding outward, the breached deck simply left the ship in a seismic tug. Korsin could imagine the erupting munitions dropping out of hyperspace light-years behind the Omen, wherever it was. That would mean a bad day for someone!" —Obi–wan Jacobi Jedi Symbol Dark Chrome (Talk) 11:38, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
  • "At this point, Ravilan's assistants were already burning a third of those Massassi that had survived the crash and were now dead in a pyre." - This is worded a bit oddly. See if you can tweak it a bit.
    • Tweaked.
      • I changed "those" to "the," but otherwise good.
  • "After finding out that the transmitter beacon did not work, Ravilan was saddened to learn that Korsin's Massassi, like those that had accompanied him—the last of the Massassi that had been on Omen—had died." - A bit clunky.
    • Tried to fix.
      • The compound "didn't" is informal, so I changed it to "did not," but otherwise fine.
  • "Ravilan eyed Yaru and exchanged a worried look at Hestus, but this was a risk they had to take." - PBP and tense issues.
    • I just decided to delete this one, the sentence was unneeded really. Previous sentences already mentioned how worried they were and how risky they felt it was.
  • "Fifteen years after the Sith crew of Omen had crash landed on Kesh, Ravilan's coloring had changed to more of a somber maroon hue, and in his second year on the planet Ravilan had also injured his leg in a confrontation with an uvak." - Bit of a chronological shuffle is needed there.
    • Is this better? It's in order and it seems better to me, but I don't know....
      • Yes, good, but not good to start a sentence with "and," which I've now amended.
  • "Even though this was explained that this only applied to those of the Sith that were Human, Ravilan objected because most of the Red Sith on Kesh had at least some Human blood, and many of the Human crew had some Sith blood." - Clunky.
    • Changed it, hopefully it is better.
  • "Seelah pointed out, however, that it was necessary because of the unknown reasons the Massassi died and why the Red Sith offspring were dying." - Needs to be worded a bit better.
  • "On this topic of the Sith offspring dying, Ravilan suggested that one of the Red Sith people be accepted into the crèche that Seelah was in charge of as a midwife to better understand this issue." - This too.
  • "Seelah immediately refused his suggestion, as the Red Sith were not qualified medical personnel that were necessary in times like this; the fact that she had previously been a slave under the rival Dark Lord Ludo Kressh and had since developed an extreme hatred towards the Red Sith did not help Ravilan's cause." - This too.
    • I tried to fix up these three. Are they any better?
      • I tweaked the first one a little bit more, as well as the second, which you should be able to see in the history for future reference. But otherwise improved.
  • "On a new subject after this talk," - Needs to be phrased better.
    • I made it "With the discussion finished, Ravilan informed...", but I thought I could also just delete that whole phrase and just have "Ravilan then informed....". Please tell me whether you prefer either, or neither of these.
      • I think it's fine as is.
  • "He also brought Ravilan closer to him and spoke into his ear that next time he addressed Yaru, Seelah—now Yaru’s new wife after the death of Devore—wanted Ravilan to address Yaru as "Grand Lord."" - PBP and phrasing issues.
    • Better?
      • Good, but once again, don't start sentences with "and."
  • "A Keshiri which was working with his group there had come into contact with it and soon died; from this, Ravilan determined that the cyanogen silicate had no adverse affects on the Red Sith, but its properties were indeed harmful to the Keshiri." - Needs rephrasing.
    • Rephrased.
  • "Tragedy" is POV.
    • Fixed.
  • "Coming back to reality at this comment," - What does this mean?
    • Point taken, and fixed.
  • "Suddenly she called out that she must retreat back to the Sith sanctum in the Takara Mountains." - Tense issues.
  • "Ravilan looked back" - PBP.
    • Is that any better (for both points)?
      • Yes, indeed.
  • "During this time reports of Ragnos Lake villages struck by the plague continued to pour in, and without Ravilan around, eventually Seelah told Yaru that it was obviously Ravilan and his people who were adding cyanogen silicate that he had recovered from Omen to the aqueducts and wells in all the villages." - Phrasing issues.
    • Is that better?
  • "instead, he was strung up centimeters off the ground by strong cords that the Keshiri used to keep uvaks still while they are washed." - Tense.
    • I didn't really see the tense in this one, but I tried to re-phrase to make it as factual as possible without having any tense. But please let me know if it isn't any good.
  • Are you sure that's a picture of the Massassi? They look more like Red Sith to me...
    • Oh yes, they are certainly Massassi, just not the hunched, brutish Massassi that most people are used to. The Massassi shown in the picture are original Massassi. Ones that haven't been mutated by Naga Sadow's experiments on Yavin IV. Because those hunched, mutated Massassi only exist after the Great Hyperspace War, in one population, it is necessary to show the Massassi as they would have looked aboard Omen. The Massassi shown in he picture are used throughout the Golden Age of the Sith, and Fall of the Sith Empire comics.
  • That's all, good work, you just need to polish your prose a bit and just watch your tense usage. Thefourdotelipsis 04:18, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
    • Thank you very much for your time and help. Please let me know if there is anything else that needs fixing. :) —Obi–wan Jacobi Jedi Symbol Dark Chrome (Talk) 10:10, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
Nayayen prefers spaghetti
  • Just one, can the "fifty-seven" in the intro get some context like ...the fifty-seven Sith? Apart from that, it's excellent. NAYAYEN:TALK 13:46, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
Chack
  • You need to use the quote format, not dialogue, for all your quotes. Chack Jadson (Talk) 23:01, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
    • Is that better? Also, I would like to ask a question. Is there is any way to have "Fool, fool—I’m a fool! Is it already too late?" seem like it is thoughts in the quote? As Ravilan is reading Seelah's thoughts, and you cannot tell that till you read the description.—Obi–wan Jacobi Jedi Symbol Dark Chrome (Talk) 23:20, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
      • Sorry I haven't gotten back to you sooner. Anyway, thoughts are not quotes, per our Manual of Style, and thus your P&A quote needs to be removed. Chack Jadson (Talk) 19:48, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
        • No problem, I too apoligise for the late reply to this.... where I live there are restrictions about the amount of internet you can use per month, so I was trying to cut down to avoid reaching the limit . And I have removed the quote and replaced it. I hope this one more suitable. :) —Obi–wan Jacobi Jedi Symbol Dark Chrome (Talk) 00:20, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
  • "In the years following the conquest of the Keshiri, Ravilan had a series of losses" Can we specify what losses he suffered besides the leg injury? Physical wounds, deaths of his feiends, etc?
    • Unfortunately, we aren't told what these losses are. We are told that life for the Red Sith had been harder than others on Kesh, as observed 15 years after the crash, which I included with "However, "the Fifty–seven" was no longer an appropriate name, as a dozen had died over the time since they had landed due to accident or lack of ability. The fact that none of the Red Sith offspring were surviving past a single day added to Ravilan's and the Fifty–sevens' reasons for wanting to abandon Kesh." We could probably assume that he suffered from some of these losses, but we aren't really told explicitly, or that any of these personally affected him.
  • Otherwise very nice. Chack Jadson (Talk) 17:02, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
    • Thank you for your time and help! :)

Although, if you don't mind, I would like to change back a couple of the edits you made. As "Though Ravilan was wielding a jagged vibroblade, it was no match for the Human's lightsaber, and Jariad cut him down." does not fit the actual situation, which was: "The guard stepped forward—and Ravilan saw the animal form of Jariad Korsin coming at him, blade drawn, the wild-eyed face of his father under jet-black hair. The teenager leapt at the prisoner, wielding a jagged vibroblade without remorse. At the last, he drew his lightsaber and cut Ravilan down in a violent flash of crimson." (From LTotS:Paragon)

  • Feel free to change that back. I just changed it because it was too PBP. If you can make less so, that's fine.

Also, in one of your edits you removed"Yaru had met with and was responsible for the death of his brother at the crash–site, too." from the Powers and abilities section. I need to include that Yaru met and killed his brother there though, because that relates to Ravilan determining that Yaru had met someone and found something out about where they were without being told.

  • Gotcha. Sounds fine to keep that.

All the other edits were most helpful! Thanks again! :)—Obi–wan Jacobi Jedi Symbol Dark Chrome (Talk) 20:44, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

  • No problem. I have tendency to sometimes make fairly large changes without asking, so sorry about that. Chack Jadson (Talk) 15:37, July 24, 2010 (UTC)
Jujiggum, pt. 1 (intro through Genocide part 1)
  • "Red Sith" could use some context in the intro and bio; the casual reader might have no idea what "Red Sith" are.
    • I gave more of an explanation for Red Sith in the introduction. In the biography however, I did not see any further need, as when it is brought up, it is mentioned that they are those whose blood runs truest to the Sith species. If I have missed anything there please tell me. :)
  • "Although Ravilan himself was secretly behind the deaths in Tetsubal…" Since you pipe-linked Tetsubal earlier, the reader might not know to what you are referring here. Also, since the article is from Ravilan's point of view, it might be a good idea to state sooner that he was behind the attack.
    • Fixed. I also changed around some things in the Biography regarding this too. If you wish is to be changed back that is no problem, I just thought it would be good to talk about Rav finding the use for the cyanogen silicate before the meeting because it says in the e-book that he found it a week before.
  • You have some incorrect info in the "Omen" section: the mining flotilla did not leave directly for Phaegon III; rather, it spent much time searching the galaxy for the Lignan, eventually discovering some in the Phaegon system. Also, they actually found the Lignan on Phaegon III's largest moon, not Phaegon III itself. This can all be sourced to Crosscurrent.
    • Thank you for notifying me of this most importantly. The majority of this article was already written before I had started reading Crosscurrent. I did not remember to change things in the article afterwards. You should find it fixed. It does not go in-depth into how they went from system to system with Relin and his apprentice following them, but it does say that they eventually came across Phaegon III's largest moon now. It would not be right I feel to go too in depth about the Jedi, as Ravilan did not experience what the Jedi did, and we do not know if he knew they were following them, or if they just randomly came across the Sith etc. Thanks again.
  • "Ravilan was initially surprised to see Korsin upon his return—without his brother" The significance of this is completely missed by the reader when you don't say that Korsin had gone with his brother to begin with.
    • Is this a little better?
      • I think it might be best to say from the beginning that he went with Devore; it still kind of feels a little random. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 21:51, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
        • Well, what happened was that Devore went up before Yaru secretly, and Yaru was surprised to find him up at the ship. It is not known if Ravilan knew if Devore went up or what happened to Devore, but he was surprised to see Yaru when Yaru came back to the camp. Devore shouldn't be mentioned really now that I think of it. But then, we need to know that Devore died. In Skyborn we are told that he is thought missing, so that will probably be Ravilan's view on the matter. I will change it accordingly.
  • I know this is difficult since Ravilan was present for much of the events without actually directly effecting them very much, but can the second paragraph of the "Omen" section be re-written to present things more from Ravilan's point of view? He's hardly mentioned at all in the entire paragraph.
    • Yes, I find that very hard to do. As we never here from Ravilan regarding his trip on Omen or anything like a point of view from him regarding the trip, so it is very hard for me to change it to include Ravilan personally. We know he suffered through the events in the paragraph but that is all, so I'm not sure what I can do other than mention the facts of what happened to Omen. In an attempt to bring Ravilan into it more I mentioned that he was the keeper of the Massassi commandos aboard Omen when it was assigned to mine Lignan, but I'm not sure what else I could really do with it considering the lack of information we have about what he did in that time. We don't know what Ravilan's point of view was really because of this, so I am hesitant to include anything like that. You know what I mean?
      • Yeah, pretty much the only thing you can do is to say things like "the Omen, with Ravilan on board" or "Ravilan and the rest of the Omen's crew" etc. I'll encourage you to go ahead and try to work in some similar such wording, because it is something that can pop up frequently in writing GAs and FAs, but if you want my help with this one feel free to ask. :) Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 21:51, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
        • I mentioned him a bit more in the paragraph. I didn't want to mention him too much in fear of it getting too cluttered. If you want you can also try to improve on it.
  • "However, according to Vaal, the only way she could go to the mainland was alone and on her uvak, Nink, and then return." Hmm, this is somewhat confusing…could you specify more the circumstances of how she would return?
    • In the e-book, she only says that she would return with help, and that was it. But later on, it is noted that she returned on Nink also, so I made it "...and then return similarly with help.". I hope that is OK?
  • Why is Seelah's particular view here important to Ravilan's article? "This caused worry among the Sith, especially Seelah Korsin, who was convinced that by letting Vaal go alone, she would abandon them there."
    • Is this any better?
  • Please make sure you specify in the third paragraph of the "Adari Vaal" section that Vaal returned with a bunch of Keshiri; right now it sounds at first like she returned alone.
    • Fixed, I think.
  • "He was referred to by Vaal as a minority within a minority, part of the small group of Red Sith within the small group of Sith, a huge change from what was usual within the Sith Empire." What was usual within the Sith Empire?
    • Fixed.
  • The article seems to skip some information in Ravilan's life; you should probably mention more explicitly at the end of the "Adari Vaal" section how the Tribe had come to rule completely over the Keshiri; and why do you wait until thirteen years after the fact to say that Ravilan had received a serious injury to his leg?
    • Done, and I decided to mention it twice--when he received it, and that he was still suffering from it in 4,985 BBY.
  • Is it "the Fifty-Seven", "the fifty-seven", or "The Fifty-Seven"? Please remain consistent with naming.
    • Fixed, I believe, but I might have missed some......
      • Okay, the only discrepancy I see left is that you switch from using an "ndash" to a normal "-" Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 21:51, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
        • Ahh, sorry about that. It should be fixed now, as well as all the other instances where "-" used to be.
  • You use "the Omen" and just "Omen" throughout. It doesn't matter which you use, since both are correct, but please pick one and remain consistent with it.
    • Done.
  • "…and those beings who were more interested in leaving Kesh than staying there" Why did they want to leave?
    • Done. We don't know all the reasons they wanted to leave, but from Precipice we know they wanted to get the Lignan to Sadow, so I included that.
  • I've noticed that a lot of the writing in the article seems to follow the Lost Tribe of the Sith plotline more so than Ravilan's life itself. Again, I know this is difficult, since he wasn't a major player in many of the events even though he was present for them, but try to go through the article and make sure that everything is from his point of view as much as possible.
    • I went through and tried to make sure Ravilan was at least mentioned to more clearly connect him to events, and so make him mentioned in the Lost Tribe's story. It should be a little bit better, but if you still find it unsuitable please recommend more things for me to change or consider changing. You are also free to change the wording if you want. Thank you again. :) —Obi–wan Jacobi Jedi Symbol Dark Chrome (Talk) 09:46, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
  • I'll continue with the "Crisis at Tetsubal" section through the end once you address these. Good work for a first nom; let me know if you need any help. :) Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 22:37, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
    • Thank you very much for your compliments and your time and effort spent reviewing this article so far. It is most appreciated. :) Any bullet points I have missed, I will address soon. —Obi–wan Jacobi Jedi Symbol Dark Chrome (Talk) 04:54, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
Jujiggum, pt. 2 (continuing with "Crisis at Tetsubal" through the end)
  • "Ravilan was to start in the vast amount of territory in Tetsubal, which was the village farthest away from the Sith sanctum in the Takara Mountains." I added a pipelink to the Takara Mountains earlier, but before this you have not named the range, so the reader might not know to where you are referring. Please either name them earlier, upon their first mention, or else add a bit of context here, identifying them as the mountains in which the Omen crashed (since you haven't really said anything about the Sith Temple yet, using just that as context doesn't really give the reader much of a clue of where it is).
    • I did not think it was appropriate to call it the Takara mountains when Omen crashed into them, because the Ravilan and the crew of Omen would have had no idea of what it was called. So I added a bit more onto the sentence you quoted to explain it more to a casual reader, as you suggested.
  • "Bringing his attention back to the conversation, Yaru took Ravilan off on a walk through the village to discuss this subject. While this was happening, Seelah held back and examined the body of Ravilan's aide, before announcing that she would be retreating back to the Sith sanctum. Ravilan cautioned her about bringing the plague into the Sith stronghold before she left." I'm confused about the order of events here. You say Yaru took Ravilan off on a walk and that Seelah stayed behind to examine the body of Ravilan's aide. But then you say she announced that she would return to the Sith Temple with the aide's body, only to have Ravilan caution her against doing so. But if Ravilan was off on a walk with Yaru, how could he have done this? Did they return before she said this?
    • OK, done. Added a bit more information too.
  • "His captor saw the eradication of the Red Sith in the Empire as an inevitability based on the way things were going in Naga Sadow's hands, with his expanding and allowing other species into higher ranked positions." Huh? I'm not really following your meaning here…
    • Is that better? Because Sadow was allowing more species into higher ranked positions she saw the Red Sith were going to become obsolete within the Empire, eventually being replaced and eradicated.
  • "Also, in his second year on Kesh, Ravilan crippled himself in a confrontation with an uvak, damaging his leg. This was an injury that never healed for Ravilan and partly contributed to his ultimate fate at the hands of Seelah and Jariad Korsin." How is this related to his personality or traits?
    • Removed. But do Personality and Traits not refer to physical appearance of the character at all?
      • Yes, but we don't know exactly how much this changed his appearance, since we don't know the full nature of the injury. Of course, it might have made his leg look completely mangled, but for all we know the only permanent damage might have been internal, with the outside appearing healed; perhaps this isn't likely, but we don't know enough to be sure. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 02:07, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
        • Fair enough.
  • "…going as far as to try to stop the Sith on Kesh from researching the Sith ancestry, to stop the ancestry of the Red Sith from being revealed, even if it only applied to Human individuals" Why were they researching this in the first place? Also, your wording here isn't very clear—did only the Red Sith know of their ancestry? You make it sound as if none of the Humans knew that the Red Sith had interbred with the Dark Jedi exiles. If Ravilan was proud of this fact, why wouldn't he want anyone to know this?
    • We are never told why the ancestry was being documented, though from Seelah's perspective we can assume it is so she can weed out all the Red Sith related people from her crèche like how she killed all the Red Sith children—but from Ravilan's perspective, we are never told. We only know Ravilan knew about Seelah killing the Red Sith children before he died. It is unknown if Ravilan also realized that she was doing the ancestry for the same reason, so I can't really include any explanation there for why the ancestry was being documented. What we know is that the moment of interbreeding was a moment of great pride for their species, though it was a sensitive topic. Beyond that it is speculation. Like we could assume from that that the Red Sith were sensitive about it because they didn't want it to be revealed if their family had interbred or not (as we know there are still some Pure-blooded Sith c. 5,000 BBY). I'll try to reword it, but if you still feel it is unclear in meaning you are free to reword it yourself if you want. :)
  • "He believed that through Naga Sadow's progressive ways, Naga Sadow valued power, and that he saw it in the old and the new." Hmm, not following your meaning here… He thought that through Sadow's progressive ways, Sadow valued power and saw power in old and new? That sounds somewhat like a non sequitur; could you perhaps elaborate on this a bit to clarify the meaning? Also, the old and new what?
    • Is that better?
  • "Ravilan became very attached to the Massassi—or at least his job of looking after them." Hmm, sounds like you don't know this for sure. Is this explicitly stated, or is it speculation? If it's speculation, it needs to be removed; if it is explicitly stated, then please make clearer that he was in fact attached to them.
    • It was implied that he was attached, though not explicitly stated, so I removed it.
  • "He was unable to fully replace the job he had of looking after the Massassi with any other job over his fifteen years on Kesh, perhaps with the exception of being the spokesperson for the Fifty–seven." Again, speculative-sounding. Why do you say "perhaps?" If this is unwknown, then it's speculation and should be removed. Also, your meaning here isn't very clear—what do you mean by "unable to fully replace the job"? Do you mean he was physically unable to do so? Or do you mean that his heart just wasn't into the other jobs?
    • Changed.
  • The P&A quote is confusing. What did happen at the Omen? How does this quote reveal that he knows what happened? When did this happen?
  • "he was able to determine that Yaru Korsin had found something out and met someone when he came back from checking if Omen's transmitter worked." Well, what did he find out? Who had he met?
    • OK, for both of these points: I cannot explain it all in that description of the quote as it would be too long and detailed, so I have explained it in the body of the section. :)
  • Also, would perhaps the affects of his leg injury crippling him be notable in the P&A, especially since they helped lead to his easy capture?
    • Alright, I hadn't thought of that.... added.
  • As a note: be very careful with your linking; I went ahead and fixed it during my copy-edits, but it was very irregular, with both under- and over-linking throughout the article. Remember, link everything once in the intro, once in the main body, and once in the infobox. Also, remember that after a character's first mention, they should be referred to by their last name—the only real exception is when two characters share a last name, such as Yaru and Seelah, in which case you can use first names when referring to one shortly after referring to the other, or else you can use those characters' first names throughout the whole article for the sake of consistency; it's up to you which you want to do. I'll give the article one more lookover once these are addressed. :) Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 14:33, July 17, 2010 (UTC)
    • OK, thank you. I will definitely pay more attention to that in future works. :) —Unsigned comment by Obi-wan Jacobi (talk • contribs)
      • No problem, fantastic work so far. :) Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 02:07, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
        • Thank you again for your help and kind words! :)

As for the naming thing, I believe I have fixed it—referring to all characters as by their last names after they are first mentioned. This was with the exception of Yaru, Devore, Jariad, and Seelah because they all share the same last name, so I referred to them by their first name throughout the article for consistency after they were first mentioned. —Obi–wan Jacobi Jedi Symbol Dark Chrome (Talk) 02:03, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

  • In the intro, why did Ravilan and the Fifty-seven cause the plague?
    • Done.
  • In the first part of the biography section, you imply that Sadow was only able to control his own original followers to lead into the war, but I thought that he defeated Kreesh and took full control of the entire Sith Empire, not just a small faction.
    • He defeated Kressh's faction, but Kressh told all his remaining followers to follow him after the defeat, which they did. "All intact ships--follow me!". His faction did not convert to Sadow's faction and join him in the Great Hyperspace War. We also know that a large portion of the Empire remained in Sith space, and Kressh became the Dark Lord of the Sith of the Empire through them as soon as Sadow left (I think the The Dark Side Sourcebook explains that a bit more on that subject but I'm not sure). He and his followers once again attack Sadow at the First battle over Korriban. Before that battle however, Sadow is aware of those who stayed behind when he has intentions to drum up more forces for the war by returning, and also by how he accuses Kressh's followers as those who chose to stay behind. "We must drum up new forces, prepare ourselves for a second assault." "Who is this?! Insolence from cowards who refused to fight for their Lord!" Sadow may have had most of the Empire under his control, but not all of it.
  • "Before the Battle of Kirrek, Ravilan was assigned to Omen when Sadow dispatched it…" Wait a second, hadn't he already been assigned to Omen? Chronology is confusing here.
    • I did that because I was trying to include Ravilan more in the paragraph. But, fixed, I believe.
  • "Omen's permanent crew was comprised of Human descendants of exiled Tapani nobles, and Force-sensitivity was introduced into their bloodlines over the years as they interbred with the Dark Jedi outcasts of the Hundred-Year Darkness who had interbred with the Sith after 6,900 BBY." I'm not sure what relevence this has to Ravilan's article.
  • "Most people with a choice had opted for the more popular Omen along with Yaru, who unlike Rrogon was considered trustworthy by the Sith." Same thing here; I'm not sure of the relevence of this, since we know Ravlian was already stationed aboard Omen, anyway.
    • (For both points) I felt they were necessary to include because it gives a background into the environment, and/or niche that Ravilan lives in, and how those around him relate to him.
      • I still don't really see how the second one is necessary. It doesn't tell us anything about Ravilan; it has only to do with the people coming aboard the Omen at Primus Goluud. I'm just not convinced that it adds anything to Ravilan's article. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 13:38, July 25, 2010 (UTC)
  • "The Massassi were stationed onboard both ships as commandos, and Ravilan took the position of keeper of the Massassi onboard the Omen." Unless I'm misunderstanding something, this appears to essentially repeat the first sentence of the "Omen" section. But my question is this: do we know whether or not Ravilan served as keeper of the Massassi aboard this ship before their stopover at Primus Goluud? Because if not, then the first sentence should be removed, and the second one kept.
    • Hmmm, that's a point. We don't know that he was actually quartermaster prior to Omen's mining mission, only that he served on Omen on some earlier missions. So I have changed it.
  • Are there no relevant quotes for the "Adari Vaal" section? Even if the quote isn't spoken by Ravilan, at least something relevant to him or the events of that section?
    • I've had a look for one before, but there's nothing good that Ravilan says in it (or at all really), so I used one that Yaru made.
  • "Ravilan had a series of losses…" Do we know anything about these losses other than the leg injury? Are none of the other losses specified?
    • No, unfortunately. We can speculate what a couple might be, but there are none specified.
  • "due to accident or lack of ability" What kind of lacking abilities are we talking about here? Do you just mean the lack of ability to survive in general?
    • The eBook only says: "But Ravilan’s lot had grown increasingly bleak. His people hadn’t numbered fifty-seven since their arrival. A dozen had fallen due to accident or professional incompetence... ". So I took professional incompetence as meaning lack of ability, or inability to carry out certain jobs.
  • Could you make clearer in the bio that Yaru became Grand Lord of the Sith, too, and not just the Keshiri?
    • OK, added a few little bits that should make it a little more clear.
  • "including his Human aide." Could this aide of Ravilan's get a page?
    • Alright. I've never made a page before, but we'll see how this turns out....
      • Nicely done. (In fact, you could probably take that to the GAN if you felt so inclined) :) Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 13:38, July 25, 2010 (UTC)
  • "Their Human counterparts placed the heads of murdered Red Sith at even intervals along the main plaza" What main plaza? The one at Tahv? At the Sith Temple? Elsewhere?
    • Done.
  • That's all I've got. Good work, and sorry to keep you hanging so long on this review. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 15:30, July 24, 2010 (UTC)
    • No problem at all. Thank you again, and most importantly thank you for your help to improve the article! :)—Obi–wan Jacobi Jedi Symbol Dark Chrome (Talk) 09:12, July 25, 2010 (UTC)
Attack of the Clone
  • Before I review the article in proper, I'm noticing a slight discrepancy. The article itself overuses the "ndash" a lot, which is mainly reserved for hyphenating word combinations in concordance with WP:DASH. For example, terms like "Post–Galactic Empire" require the ndash because they are irregular word combinations, whereas ones like "crash-landed," "off-world," and "fifty-seven" are generally accepted compound terms in the English language and only require hyphens for proper linking. Although I would normally just correct this myself in a copy-edit, the issue is prominent enough that I wanted to clarify it with you before getting down to the other nitty-gritty stuff in reviews. If I'm not coming off clear enough, let me know and I'll try to explain it in more detail. CC7567 (talk) 06:53, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
    • Alright, thank you. I was not aware of that. I have tried to fix it by only leaving the more uncommon combinations with the "ndash", leaving the others with regular hyphens. Feel free to do any fixes regarding it. Thanks. :) —Obi–wan Jacobi Jedi Symbol Dark Chrome (Talk) 20:34, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
  • "and more pressure to get off-world": pressure for whom, exactly? Please specify.
    • OK, I made it "and more pressure for the Red Sith to get off-world", which I think is more specific.
  • In the intro (particularly when you portray his death), you make it sound like Ravilan was a Red Sith himself, but without direct clarification, it isn't completely clear if he is or not. Please provide some somewhere.
    • OK, I made it a little more clear, though hopefully it doesn't seem overdone. I tried it several ways, but this one seemed to work the best, though I am still not quite satisfied with it.
      • If you're not happy with that, perhaps you could change "including that of spokesperson of the Fifty-seven Red Sith" to "spokesperson of his fellow Fifty-seven Red Sith," or whatever the number turns out to be. CC7567 (talk) 22:13, August 2, 2010 (UTC)
        • Yes, I like that better. It makes it clear that Rav is a Red Sith and part of the Fifty-seven. Thanks. :)
  • "and the latter took control of his": awkward phrasing here with the "his." Are you trying to say that Sadow took control of Kressh's faction? If so, it should be worded as "the former's faction" or something similar instead of "his."
    • It's meant to be that Sadow took control of his own faction. Is that a bit better?
      • "and the latter took control of his followers": "took control" is sounding rather unspecific here, as it's implying that he literally took control of them, through their minds or some other way. If you're trying to say that he simply organized them for battle, then "mobilized" would work better, but as it stands, the word choice is a bit unclear. CC7567 (talk) 22:13, August 2, 2010 (UTC)
        • OK, changed to "assembled". Is that OK, or would you prefer "mobilized"?
  • "At some point while Yaru was giving knowledge to Vaal in the Keshiri capital city of Tahv, Vaal had tried an experiment out on Ravilan": the chronology with the past perfect tense is a little confusing and inconsistent here. Did this happen before or after the nobles arrived? If it was before, then the entire sentence should be in past perfect (i.e. switch the "Yaru was giving" to "Yaru had been giving"), and if it was after, it should be entirely in regular past tense—but the current tense switch halfway through the sentence is misleading. Please clarify.
    • It was after. Is this any better?
      • The "was watching" was fine, actually, but yes, it's better now. CC7567 (talk) 22:13, August 2, 2010 (UTC)
  • "including a serious leg injury in his second year on Kesh": unless I'm missing something, shouldn't this year be linked? Or is it not confirmed for some reason? I'm not familiar with the source material, so that's why I'm asking.
    • We know that he had a serious injury in his second year on Kesh, which would be 4,998 BBY, as you said. But that was only a mention, we don't know about anything else that happened at that date. For that reason, does it really need its own article and link? Also, I noticed you added added "series of physical losses". If you don't mind, I will remove that, because we don't know if all his loses were physical.... in fact, we don't know anything other than that they were a "series of loses". :)
      • Even if the event(s) that happen(s) in a year aren't that notable, the article should still be created as long as a canonical source has verified its existence, as far as I know under current policy. CC7567 (talk) 22:13, August 2, 2010 (UTC)
        • OK, will do.
  • I have to stop there due to time constraints. I'll continue with "Genocide" when I next have the chance, so I'll leave you with these for now. CC7567 (talk) 00:24, August 2, 2010 (UTC)
  • "He explained how he was unable to locate his Human aide and so took up position on top of the sundial to call for her. From there, he also surveyed the plague that was consuming Tetsubal's Keshiri population." To clarify, is he explaining to them his inability to locate his aide (i.e. he's saying that he is unable to locate her), or is he explaining how he had been unable to locate her? (And the same goes for going up on the sundial.) The reason I'm asking is because you choose to use "how" instead of "that" for word choice here; the former tends to be used in the past perfect tense, while the latter is normally used for regular past tense. If this is happening as he's explaining it to them, then "that" should be used, but if he's recounting all of this to them, then "how" should be used; the sentence currently mismatches it a bit. Let me know if this objection is unclear.
    • It happened previously to him explaining it to them, so it would be "how".
  • "Yaru had called for all the Sith to return to the Takara Mountains": like one of my previous objections, is the past perfect tense (the "had") completely right here? If so, I would suggest using "previously" as an adverb to clarify that, but if not, it should be changed to regular past tense.
    • OK, changed to regular past tense.
  • "Seelah Korsin confirming to Ravilan the fate of his people on Kesh": can this quote caption be reorganized a bit? With the order in which you mention the individuals here, it sounds like Korsin's line is first and then Ravilan's, not the other way around as I suspect that it is; it isn't completely clear here. Please try to reword it so that you mention the speakers in the order of their dialogue. Also, I believe the same problem affects the quote for the Omen section, so please try to fix that one too.
    • OK, re-worded them both.
      • I made a slight rewording to both of them to correct the usage of "which," which has to correspond to a specific noun instead of a clause; feel free to modify it however you wish. CC7567 (talk) 21:52, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
  • "and Seelah told Yaru what she thought Ravilan and his people were adding cyanogen silicate to the water around all the villages": the wording is rather awkward here, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say with the "what she thought [...they] were adding cyanogen silicate." I suspect you're trying to say "why she thought," but please check this.
    • The "what" should probably be a "that". She thought the Red Sith were adding the cyanogen silicate to the water, and she told Yaru of this. Has that clarified it a bit more?
  • "believing the Red Sith would eventually become obsolete and replaced": with the dash preceding this clause, it's unclear who this clause is supposed to be attached to, whether it's Sadow or Seelah; please reword for clarity.
    • Is that better? It is attached to Seelah if it is still not clear.
  • "Ravilan saw Jariad wielding a jagged vibroblade as he leaped forward and attacked": is the "Ravilan saw" really a necessary detail? Making him the primary subject of the sentence is a little awkward, seeing as the second part of the sentence has Jariad as the subject, not Ravilan. If you're trying to portray this as "the last thing Ravilan saw," then I would recommend rewording it specifically around that.
    • OK, I removed the "Ravilan saw".
  • "rather than staying there to rebuild as rulers of the Keshiri": what exactly were they trying to "rebuild"? Rebuild is normally used as a transitive verb, which means that they must be rebuilding something. Themselves, maybe? Their heritage? Please specify.
    • Alright, I changed it. "rebuild' probably shouldn't be used there, since they have never built there before, so I made it "build", and explained what they were building.
  • "Ravilan was a Red Sith who, like all the other members of his species, had the ability to manipulate the Force." This is getting rather picky, but since you reference this sentence to the Essential Guide to the Force, that implies that all of that info is mentioned in that source. Since the Essential Guide was published before Lost Tribe of the Sith, I'm unsure if that source even mentions Ravilan specifically. If you're trying to use the Essential Guide as a reference to say that he could manipulate the Force as a member of the Red Sith, I would just recommend inserting a separate reference for the fact that he was a Red Sith; it's clearer that way.
    • Done. :)
  • I apologize if any of these objections are rather nit-picky; I would normally fix most of them myself under the {{Sofixit}} reviewing clause, but I have two reasons for doing so: I'm not entirely familiar with the source material, and I want to help you learn so that these don't become prominent problems in the future. Hopefully it helps; in any case, my review is basically done. Good work with the article, and let me know if anything is unclear. :) CC7567 (talk) 22:13, August 2, 2010 (UTC)
    • It certainly does help. Thank you very much again for your review and help! :) —Obi–wan Jacobi Jedi Symbol Dark Chrome (Talk) 02:42, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Comments

Approved as a Featured article by Inquisitorius 22:44, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

  • A project that my young friend Obi-wan Jacobi and I have been working on for some time. Enjoy!—Tommy 9281 19:45, June 29, 2010 (UTC)