- The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.
Gavin Darklighter
(5 Inqs/2 Users/7 Total)
Support
Havac 08:05, 23 September 2007 (UTC)- Jorrel
Fraajic 02:52, 25 September 2007 (UTC) - Greyman(Paratus) 20:25, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Yar! He's a pilot! Thefourdotelipsis 07:38, 30 September 2007 (UTC)- Here's to length—insane length. Hobbes15(Tiger Headquarters) 21:37, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
- Worst Pilot in Rogue Squadron Graestan (This party's over) 01:15, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
- Cull Tremayne 01:37, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- He's Awsome Thire 4477 23:01, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
Oppose
Last paragraph of "First combat". I'm getting a bit of a "Keep your hands off Jimmy!" moment. "Darklighter did this. Darklighter did that. Darklighter with three bags full." Thefourdotelipsis 10:20, 24 September 2007 (UTC)- Largely de-Jimmyed. jSarek 10:43, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
The only thing causing me to withhold my support, is the succession box at the bottom at the article—I'd like to see, at the very least, the dates listed there provided with reference tags. Other than that minor thing, the article is awesome and one your best Havac. Greyman(Paratus) 19:25, 25 September 2007 (UTC)- I actually suggested reffing succession boxes back when we started reffing infoboxes, but was told not to bother. It's something I support anyway, so I'll get on it. Havac 20:03, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
In the "Striking back" section, we're suddenly dealing with a new COS. You might want to mention Fey'lya's death. Also, stuff like "got a goatee" and "dyed hair blonde" is better suited to the P&T, rather than the main bio.Thefourdotelipsis 08:48, 27 September 2007 (UTC)Also, in the section where Leia is apprehended and there's the smelling salts and all that, it's degenerated into a play-by-play. It needs to be more concise and have a more suitable tone.Thefourdotelipsis 09:47, 27 September 2007 (UTC)- See about that. Havac 17:33, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
- From the lair of Hobbes15
"bubbly"? How was Forge "bubbly"?- Bubbly personality. She was outgoing and enthusiastic. It's a fairly common term. Havac 04:10, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
- Didn't know that. No problem, then. Hobbes15(Tiger Headquarters) 04:24, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
- Bubbly personality. She was outgoing and enthusiastic. It's a fairly common term. Havac 04:10, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
If the Iron Fist was badly damaged before it could flee, how did it get to Selaggis? Elaborate a bit on this (Last paragraph of The hunt for Zsinj)- It was badly damaged, which happened before it escaped. I'll clarify the wording a little. Havac 04:10, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't really care about the first two redlinks, but could the shield trio article be created? It appears quite a bit, as far as I remember.- I thought I put Goodwood on that a while ago. I'll talk to him; it's his specialty. Havac 04:10, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
A little mention of why the crystal gravfield trap was required by the NR.- Hmm. Good point. Addressed. Havac 04:10, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
When Pellaeon signed the peace treaty, what happened with the Caamas Document silliness? I forget the exact events, but mention that Pellaeon did not give the NR the document, they were forced to do something else to get it.- Ehhh . . . it's not really about the NR. I hesitate to digress any more than necessary. Besides . . . if they were going after Imperial info, and then made peace with the Imps . . . I think it's implicit to the reader that the information gets shared; the crisis is over. Now, the actual document is provided by Skywalker . . . but I just think that's more digression than the reader needs. "Oh, by the way, Luke came back from this totally different place where Thrawn had made a base . . . yeah, long story, well point is he happened to have a copy, in case you were wondering." Havac 04:10, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
- That's fine. I suppose that would be a lot of extra info. Hobbes15(Tiger Headquarters) 04:24, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
- Ehhh . . . it's not really about the NR. I hesitate to digress any more than necessary. Besides . . . if they were going after Imperial info, and then made peace with the Imps . . . I think it's implicit to the reader that the information gets shared; the crisis is over. Now, the actual document is provided by Skywalker . . . but I just think that's more digression than the reader needs. "Oh, by the way, Luke came back from this totally different place where Thrawn had made a base . . . yeah, long story, well point is he happened to have a copy, in case you were wondering." Havac 04:10, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
In the Swarm War stuff, mention that there were Killiks stowed aboard, and that was what Organa Solo sensed— right now it's unclear how the Ackbar was actually destroyed.- Well, actually . . . she wasn't destroyed. She was boarded; the Killiks aboard didn't play much of a role. I think I've clarified it a little. Havac 04:10, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
- Oh, yes. Forgot about all the silliness with it attacking the Chiss, and that. Never mind. Hobbes15(Tiger Headquarters) 04:24, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
- Well, actually . . . she wasn't destroyed. She was boarded; the Killiks aboard didn't play much of a role. I think I've clarified it a little. Havac 04:10, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
- That's all. Wow, he has some bad hair days. Incredible article, Havac. Hobbes15(Tiger Headquarters) 03:45, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
- From the battered desk of Atarumaster88
A first look tells me that there is a wonderful amount of prose. However, there is not a wonderful amount of images. Before you tell me that there aren't any other images of Gavin- I believe you. However, that doesn't mean we can't have relevant images of other pertinent things ala Xaverri. I suggest some images of Biggs, the Battle of Yag D'hul, the Battle of Thyferra, an X-wing starfighter, Battle of Selaggis, raid on Folor? (Isard's Revenge cover), Battle of Mon Calamari, etc. Just do something to vary it up.- I do believe in the illustrative legitimacy of images not of the character being in the article, unlike some others, but I find myself hard-pressed to justify anything more here. Were there images of his X-wing in battle, his wife, anything I could link more concretely, I'd put them in. I already have images of the crest he designed and his girlfriend. While more generic images could be stuffed into the early section, I worry about the availability of images for the later sections, possibly resulting in some image imbalance. I don't think we need images for images' sake here; we've currently got an image in about every other section, and I really don't think that's bad enough that we have to resort to filler images. I think a simpler, cleaner style actually suits it better and is classier, rather than sticking in "Here's other people fighting in a battle he was in, Here's an X-wing; he flew one of these, Here's Jaina Solo; he recruited her, Here's Corran Horn; Corran was nice to Gavin when he was starting out." I've done that before for articles with nothing or next to nothing in the way of images or bad image imbalance, but I did it minimally. I don't think Darklighter is so bad off as to call for that. Havac 23:36, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
- I disagree, especially given the small size of the images of Gavin that are available- that's certainly Lucasfilm's fault, but I certainly think two or three more images would contribute to the article's quality. If it comes down to a point of disagreement, I would say place it to a talk page or Inquisitorius vote. Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 22:15, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
- I disagree, especially given the small size of the images of Gavin that are available- that's certainly Lucasfilm's fault, but I certainly think two or three more images would contribute to the article's quality. If it comes down to a point of disagreement, I would say place it to a talk page or Inquisitorius vote. Atarumaster88
- I do believe in the illustrative legitimacy of images not of the character being in the article, unlike some others, but I find myself hard-pressed to justify anything more here. Were there images of his X-wing in battle, his wife, anything I could link more concretely, I'd put them in. I already have images of the crest he designed and his girlfriend. While more generic images could be stuffed into the early section, I worry about the availability of images for the later sections, possibly resulting in some image imbalance. I don't think we need images for images' sake here; we've currently got an image in about every other section, and I really don't think that's bad enough that we have to resort to filler images. I think a simpler, cleaner style actually suits it better and is classier, rather than sticking in "Here's other people fighting in a battle he was in, Here's an X-wing; he flew one of these, Here's Jaina Solo; he recruited her, Here's Corran Horn; Corran was nice to Gavin when he was starting out." I've done that before for articles with nothing or next to nothing in the way of images or bad image imbalance, but I did it minimally. I don't think Darklighter is so bad off as to call for that. Havac 23:36, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Mention that Darklighter testified during the Celchu trial. I'm almost certain he did.- Already in there. "Darklighter often made time to attend the trial itself, and was likely called as a witness along with most of the other members of the squadron." I don't believe there's any explicit confirmation of his testimony present. Havac 23:36, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Needs another section added to separate the DNT and the Legacy stuff. And this thing better be updated for Denning's last book.- That section is ten paragraphs long, some of them larger than normal and some very much shorter than normal; a quick count shows another nine-paragraph section and several eight-paragraph sections. I've thought about breaking that section up, but ultimately just didn't think it was needed, as it's thematically unified and would be two rather short sections if broken up. If you insist, I can break it in twain, but I'm not entirely convinced it's necessary. And of course and future material will be added in a timely fashion. Havac 23:36, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
- My problem with the overlong section is that it basically deals with two major events: The Dark Nest Crisis and this 4th fleet and Confed-GA war. That is not thematically unified in my opinion, and two five-paragraph sections is not what I would define as "rather short." Ditto on the talk page or Inq vote though. Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 22:15, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
- Split. And your sig code is ridiculously long. Havac 05:29, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
- My problem with the overlong section is that it basically deals with two major events: The Dark Nest Crisis and this 4th fleet and Confed-GA war. That is not thematically unified in my opinion, and two five-paragraph sections is not what I would define as "rather short." Ditto on the talk page or Inq vote though. Atarumaster88
- That section is ten paragraphs long, some of them larger than normal and some very much shorter than normal; a quick count shows another nine-paragraph section and several eight-paragraph sections. I've thought about breaking that section up, but ultimately just didn't think it was needed, as it's thematically unified and would be two rather short sections if broken up. If you insist, I can break it in twain, but I'm not entirely convinced it's necessary. And of course and future material will be added in a timely fashion. Havac 23:36, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Prose issues in intro."joining the New Republic. With his parents' blessing, Darklighter joined." Can any other word be used?Misplaced antecedent in Yuuzhan Vong sentence makes it look like he's fighting the Rogues. (ha!) 2nd Corellian Insurrection section in intro is disproportionately long compared to the length of say, the Yuuzhan Vong War section or the Dark Nest trilogy, especially given how relatively little he's in the books. Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 06:29, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
- Cleaned up and trimmed; the bit he is in the books is very important to his overall career, however, and merits more mention than twenty battles where he just fights and wins. Havac 20:15, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
The Talasea assault just "ended"? How about the Rogues were evacuated after they beat all of their attackers or something a bit more detailed.- Cleared up. Havac 20:15, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
What stormtrooper platoon? Please clarify which platoon you are referring to . . i.e. the one that attacked them on Talasea.- Clarify what you're objecting to! Found that and clarified. Havac 20:15, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Statements on Kre'fey's overconfidence and lack of planning are POV. Please remove.- Cleaned up . . . though I think saying, "No, we know everything down there" and then having an extra wing of TIEs show up and kill you is a relatively objective indicator of overconfidence. Havac 20:15, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
"the existence of which Kre'fey had not even known" reads poorly. Please reword.- Reworded. Havac 20:15, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Who the heck is Winter and how did she magically start helping the Rogues on Coruscant? At least a tiny bit of detail on who she is would be good. (And yes, I know who Winter is, but it's for the sake of the less informed reader).- Got it. Havac 20:15, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
In a moment of impersonating Goodwood, I demand an appropriate link to starfighter combat.- Linked. Havac 20:15, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
"made to turn his guns" . . . "made to leave". Vary the diction please, such phrases are quaint when used occasionally, tiresome when overused within a close space.- You really need to be more specific. I had to resort to ctrl-F to find and fix that. Havac 20:15, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
"Darklighter continued flying missions and spending time with Sei'lar." This sentence does not go with the paragraph in which it is placed. Remove or move it please.- "I will make it relevant." Havac 20:15, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Antilles's preparations for what were complete? Be specific.- The whole point is that that kicks off this big plan, which you see in action. Bah! The next two paragraphs spell the whole plan out. Bah! Do I really need to add "preparations for victory" to spell it out that obviously, as if Antilles is preparing for breakfast or a trip to Des Moines or something? Fine, done. I hope you enjoy the pedestrian. And no, that's not the walking person, it's the substantive. Bah! Havac 20:15, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
speculation on Faleur's background is not needed in the article. It's not a soap opera.- Cleaned. Havac 20:15, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Neither champagne nor fountain is linked! Hyperinclusionist fanwankery demands that either champagne or champagne fountain be linked!- Linked. Just remember, you brought it upon yourself. Havac 20:15, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
A New Enemy, Para 1. Describing Traest as "honest and straightforward" is POV. Reword so that it's described as Gavin's perspective please.- Fixed. Havac 03:05, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
The bit about Calrissian's party after the Battle of Borleias (Yuuzhan Vong War; Second) is unnecessary and speculative. "And then Darklighter went drinking with his buddies." Who cares? Remove.- Meh. They won a victory, there was a huge bash to which everyone was invited. It shows it wasn't all misery and fighting; it's got as much right to be there as any other event. Do we not mention the Ewok celebration at the end of ROTJ because "they went and danced, who cares?" There was a celebration. Calrissian invited everyone. So we mention it; I moderated the wording slightly. I think that's good enough. Havac 03:05, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
The first paragraph of the BTS is somewhat redundant with an appearances section. Trim it up please- not every major appearance needs to be listed.- Not every appearance is. "He was a major character in this series, until a second author took over, when he was a background guy, then he got mentioned once and then played a big role in this one big series. Since then, only one guy has written about him." It's hardly a Lucenoesque list. It establishes that one guy created him and wrote him and he didn't exist outside that guy's work (and his buddy/successor's continuation of it) until he wrote him into an important position, where he was used across a big series. Since then, he's disappeared but for one other author. It's not a list for listing's sake; it establishes the pattern of how he's been used. I'd think it could stay as it is. Havac 03:05, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
- Stricken, but only because of your use of "Lucenoesque." Note that this will not work more than once. :-) Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 14:14, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
- Stricken, but only because of your use of "Lucenoesque." Note that this will not work more than once. :-) Atarumaster88
- Not every appearance is. "He was a major character in this series, until a second author took over, when he was a background guy, then he got mentioned once and then played a big role in this one big series. Since then, only one guy has written about him." It's hardly a Lucenoesque list. It establishes that one guy created him and wrote him and he didn't exist outside that guy's work (and his buddy/successor's continuation of it) until he wrote him into an important position, where he was used across a big series. Since then, he's disappeared but for one other author. It's not a list for listing's sake; it establishes the pattern of how he's been used. I'd think it could stay as it is. Havac 03:05, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
- Have a Super Terrific Friendly Un-frustrating day. Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 20:22, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
- From the squalid cubicle of Graestan:
"Darklighter" is used excessively. Could "Gavin" be substituted for a solid chunk of these instances? Especially when talking about multiple Darklighters.- Use refined when talking about multiple Darklighters. Havac 05:29, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
"Biggs and Gavin were not close, but Biggs would sometimes spend time with his younger cousin, even taking him along occasionally when Biggs spent time with Luke Skywalker, during which trips Darklighter met Owen and Beru Lars."—can this be broken up, and perhaps spend time/spent time not used so close together?- Broken up. Havac 05:29, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
In the last paragraph of "Rogue," Corran Horn's full name should be used in the first occurrence, to remind us of who he is. This should be a precedent for other character mentions; this is very like the first objection.- Horn's name is used in his first occurrence. Havac 05:29, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
In the fourth paragraph of "First Combat," you point out that Ooryl is awake twice in rather rapid succession, which I find awkward.- Finessed. Havac 05:29, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Okay, last name overload. This sounds like a police report. Cannot some names be changed, to make it less stiff?- Hell no. Characters should never be referred to by first name only, unless distinguishing between two people of the same surname. When was the last time you saw an encyclopedia refer to Winston Churchill as "Winston"? Do encyclopedias call George W. Bush "George"? This is not fiction. We use last names. Havac 05:29, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Levian system redlink should go.- That's not a rule-based objection. :p Havac 05:29, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
- —Graestan (This party's over) 00:34, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Comments
- No, I haven't actually read it yet. More objections to come. Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 20:22, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
- Was it two squadrons or two flights of TIE Defenders? Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 14:24, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
- Note to me:
I am up to "Taking the lead".Finished. Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 14:24, 10 October 2007 (UTC) - I don't think I will ever have a "lack of detail" objection, but if I have to read the overused surname "Darklighter" one more time . . . Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 14:24, 10 October 2007 (UTC)