Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Gantoris

< Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations
The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.

Gantoris

  • Nominated by: Darth Xadún(Consult the Holocron) 19:48, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments: Yes, at long last I have written another thing I feel worthy of FAN. My thanks to 4dot, Tommy and Jaymach for the sourcing.

(6 Inqs/1 Users/7 Total)

Support

  1. Inqvote Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 19:47, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
  2. Inqvote Thefourdotelipsis 00:59, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
  3. Inqvote I always thought he looked just like Ganondorf. Chack Jadson (Talk) 15:25, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
  4. Inqvote Graestan(Talk) 04:21, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
  5. Inqvote Greyman(Talk) 03:07, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
  6. Inqvote Good persistence through the process. Toprawa and Ralltiir 22:35, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
  7. DC 03:11, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Oppose

  1. I think I was the one that did it, but that infobox image really needs work. There is also a quote in the body of the text that should be removed or moved to a header. Also you need to source the infobox. --Eyrezer 03:09, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Quote altered. I knew I'd forgotten something but just couldn't see it for some reason, and the infobox sourcing was it. Thanks! As for the image, I've asked for a litle assistance below, since my image skills are, shall we say, non-existant? Darth Xadún(Consult the Holocron) 07:26, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
      • The second last para of the bio lacks sourcing for its final statement. --Eyrezer 21:56, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
      • Smeg. sourced. Also, thanks for the image enhancement.
  2. Some pointers, which I have mostly addressed myself
    • In my copy of Dark Apprentice, Exar Kun says "I want your anger, Gantoris.", rather than "I want your anger, Gantoris!". Misquote, wishful thinking, different source? I'm not sure.
      • Mistakenly wishful thinking - writing the quote how i thought it should be written. Altered.
    • Up till 100, write out numbers as words, such as three, for 3 corusca gems
      • Curses. Thanks for altering.
    • More linking, such as runyip, the battle of Dantooine where Daala attacks the colonists. Most things can be linked, I find.
      • Are there other things that are missing linkage?
        • I don't think so. Good stuff. Harrar 09:03, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Instead of hyphons, you want to use — I changed this for you
      • Err... Is this a set policy or just your personal preference?
        • Well &"mdash"; and &"hellip";, I thought, were the proper wikia ways to do hyphons and ellipsis. I believe it's just the done thing, but feel free to go and check it out elsewhere. Harrar 09:03, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
    • I recommend expansion on Gantoris' rivalry with Horn, esp. the lifting of the rock episode.
      • I've expanded this in the Bio, by extracting and expanding relevant parts from the P&t. I've ad too.
    • Mention Warton, who Gantoris appears to have known from birth. It's his death that really guts Gantoris. Also mention the futile lightsaber strike on the wall against Kun.
      • Aah. Good point. Warton and lightsaber futility added.
    • Legacy section? There seem plenty of after death details.
      • I've separated the final section into a "Legacy" part and added a little, but there's not much I can add to it.
    • Good stuff, Xadún. Harrar 16:23, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
  3. From Greyman:
    • Gantoris actually has a role, albeit very minor, in the story Firestorm. I see it listed in the "Appearances" section, but don't currently see any info on it in the article. If you need help with obtaining a copy of the story, let me know :) Greyman(Talk) 18:54, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
      • At long, long last, I have added refernce to this. Sorry it took so long, and much thanks for providing the source. Darth Xadún(Consult the Holocron) 19:34, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
  4. From the Preliminary Hearings of Chack Jadson:
    • The only part I read was the BTS, which I changed a little for you, but I suggest you change the source for the part about Exar's name never being spoken in the narration. JA narration works, just not Dark Apprentice. Chack Jadson (Talk) 20:02, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
      • I deemed this unnecessary as Kun only speaks to Gantoris in Dark Apprentice, but I've changed it as it works either way. Also, I've moved the specific details about Gantoris' lightsaber to the article. I thought describing it to be duel-phase was sufficient, but it made sense to have this added clarification in the article itself. Darth Xadún(Consult the Holocron) 10:32, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
        • This is trivial, but I don't see why you can't change the ref for this to narration. You specifically say he never mentions his name in the narration, then source it with a book. Chack Jadson (Talk) 20:14, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
          • I'm a little confused as to what you want here, I'm afriad.
            • Okay. You say that in the narration, Kun never tells Gantoris his name. Unless I'm being thick, there's no reason to source this DA. You don't even need a source, actually. Chack Jadson (Talk) 00:48, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
              • The sourcing has been removed.
    • Context on Ta'ania in the body is desired.
      • I've added what I can, although there's precious little to be said about her, which I think is a shame.
    • Could the third sentence in Legacy be merged with the second? Also, what is Kyp's redemption test?
      • Merged and added.
    • I did a copyedit for you too. Chack Jadson (Talk) 20:14, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
      • Thanks.
  5. From the desk of Atarumaster88
    • "Many times during this fight he attacked out of anger, Skywalker regularly on the defensive to keep from antagonizing his student." Okay, I've fixed a lot of awkward verbage in this nom, but this really needs cleaned up. Reword and clarify please.
      • Broken down and altered.
    • " a trait possibly driven by his dreams of the "Dark Man" in a hope to defeat him." Kill this or reword it so it's not so speculative.
      • His high ambition meant Gantoris always strove to improve his skills, as his life on Eol Sha had meant he had to rely mostly on his own abilities.
        • That's fine; the "possibly driven" was what tripped me up. Thanks for rewording it.Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 03:36, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
    • Combine some of the paras in the P&T please.
      • Done.
    • Link to Force powers as needed; some were missing.
    • Added telekinesis link to Luke pulling Gantoris' lightsaber using the Force.
    • Probably not a good idea to list Exar Kun as his Sith Master-yes, Kun is a Sith, but Gantoris isn't, if you catch my drift.
      • I've removed "Sith", but I have left him under the list of Masters that taught Gantoris.
    • Have a Super Terrific Friendly Un-frustrating day. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 21:57, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
      • Like what you've done with this, DX. For future reference, I would have picked up on these a little sooner if you double indent the responses—I've fixed your replies so it doesn't look like they're objections. ;-) Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 03:36, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
  6. "Gantoris believed that Luke, in his black robes, might be the "Dark Man" who had plagued his dreams, and isolated him from the colonists. Listening to the people that brought him food, Skywalker concluded Gantoris must have been a decendant of Ta'ania." - I'm not quite sure what's going on here. You might need to clarify who's being kept isolated, who's bringing food et al, just to make that passage a bit clearer. "First, Gantoris lead him into a geyser tunnel to collect lichen to see if he could survive the eruption of the geyser." - This could be worded better, but I'm not quite sure how. Get back to me on that one if you need clarification. I think it would be good to mention the fact that he struck up a friendship with Streen in the bio. "No other works involving lightsabers reference these shimmering colors, with Gantoris' lightsaber itself referred to as purple, amethyst or purple-white in other works." - You need to cite these other works, at the moment you just have it sourced to Dark Apprentice. Thefourdotelipsis 03:46, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
  7. Grass clippings:
    • "Born into the sole isolated settlement on the volcanic world of Eol Sha, Gantoris's affinity with the Force first became apparent when he survived an avalanche as a child." – Please rewrite, minding subject-verb agreement.
      • Strimmed.
    • Same deal – "His connection with the Force allowed him to predict earthquakes, eruptions, and avalanches, which he used to protect his fellow colonists on the unstable planet"
      • Mowed.
    • Corran Horn needs some introduction/context.
      • Planted.
    • "shadowy spectral ghost" is a bit redundant.
      • Clipped.
    • The way the Dark Man is set up to be Exar Kun is quite awkward. Please just come right out with it somewhere earlier in the article than you currently allude to him. Also, some limited background on Kun would be nice—feel free to use information from any source on him to do so, as long as you cite it. Don't feel limited to JAT.
      • Revealed in intro the Dark Man is Exar Kun, context added in the Bio.
    • "Upon witnessing his friend Warton being blasted by an AT-AT, Gantoris's calm broke." – Please rewrite, minding agreement.
      • Replanted.
    • Sourcing in the BtS is bizarre. Pick one: self-sourcing statements, or ref tags. As it stands, there's one unsourced statement and several of each of the ways to source.
      • Bts pruned to consist of self-sourcing statements.
    • Graestan(Talk) 23:44, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
  8. Toprawa:
    • Not an objection since I've changed the instances myself, but articles should never, except as a last resort where things get confusing, be written by referring to people by their first names. "Luke" should always be "Skywalker," "Kyp" should always be "Durron," and so forth.
      • I'll bear that in mind.
    • Please also make sure you do a more concentrated job of making sure things are not linked twice through the article's body. Link once in the intro, and once on first mention in the body, and nowhere else, including the BTS. I've cleaned this up for you.
      • Ok.
    • You say here that he was searching for the offspring of this woman, but then in the next sentence, he believes her experience will be valuable? This certainly makes it seem as if she's still around. So who is he searching for? "he was searching for the offspring of Ta'ania to join his Jedi Praxeum."
      • Not so. Luke was searching for Ta'ania, unware she was no longer at the colony or kept herself hidden. Luke found Gantoris by coincidence when searching for Ta'ania.
        • Ok, well please clarify this in the article as you have here. Per what I've stated, this makes it seem as if she's still alive, and he's looking for her experience. What I'm inferring from this is that he feels her experience will be beneficial to him vicariously, through another: "he felt her experience would be invaluable to him"
          • Done.
            • This is still kind of confusing me. The intro sentence and the bio sentence covering this don't match. One says he's looking for Tania, another says he's looking for her offspring. Which is it? The intro sentence: "In 11 ABY, Luke Skywalker journeyed to Eol Sha, searching for the offspring of Jedi and Force-sensatives, specifically seeking Ta'ania" ...and the bio sentence: "When Luke Skywalker came to Eol Sha in 11 ABY, he was searching for the offspring of Ta'ania to join his Jedi Praxeum"
              • They match now.
            • Also, as an addendum to that objection, keeping this as it is is very conditional on whom Skywalker is looking for. If he's searching for Tania, this makes sense: "and he felt her experience would be invaluable to him to train other Jedi Knights. " Because he can directly utilize her experience. If he's searching for her offspring, this does not make sense, because I don't really think you can utilize the experience of a dead woman. You can utilize the experience she taught to her offspring, maybe. Please clarify this. Toprawa and Ralltiir 00:26, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
              • Amended - he was searching for Tanaia.
    • If he's already moving things around telekinetically exactly as he should, I would say he's already a talented student. This is kind of redundantly backpedaling on what you already established: "Gantoris quickly became a talented student,"
      • My apologies, This was unclear. It was Luke who moved the structure, not Gantoris. Altered.
    • So...what happened? "Gantoris believed he was tricked, demanding the other student explain how he had made it appear that the rock had risen."
      • Expanded.
    • This transition makes it seem as if Skywalker just haphazardly accepted this offer to duel, when I'm guessing he was forced into it against his own accord. Please reword, transition better: "Gantoris then used his new lightsaber to challenge Skywalker to a duel. Many times during this fight"
      • Changed to "Gantoris then used his new lightsaber to challenge Skywalker to a duel, threatening to strike him down if he did not defend himself."
    • So what happened after the duel between Skywalker and Gantoris? Did Skywalker reprimand him, did he send him to his room without dinner? That paragraph needs some sort of resolution.
      • Added.
    • Also, this duel between them really should have some sort of article. At the very least, please create a red link for it.
      • A link has been added.
    • I'm confused, is this happening present time, and he's getting a "live look-in," or did this already happen? Please clarify: "but the specter showed him the colonists he had led on Eol Sha as they were slaughtered"
      • The source is unspecific. Though the event and Gantoris' witnessing of it are together in the novel, it cannot be definitivly concluded that the massacre happened earlier or was happening at the same time. As such, I have left this unchanged.
    • You have some unnecessary double referencing of the same source at the end of the Legacy section. Please clear that up
      • Removed.
    • I'd like to see this sentence clarified and expounded on, please: "He was the most promising student, showing strength for the generating a protection bubble"
      • Expanded.
    • The way this BTS sentence reads does better to establish this than what you have in the Legacy section. Please beef up that section: "This makes his fall to the dark side haunt the Jedi trainees even more."
      • Section expanded.
    • I've removed this sentence from the BTS due to its trivial nature, but something of the sort should at least be specified in the biography somewhere: "The spirit of Exar Kun never actually reveals his name to Gantoris in any part of the narration for the Jedi Academy Trilogy."
      • Why remove it? It says in the Bio Gantoris' Dark Man was Exar Kun and that Gantoris was unaware of his identity. This sentence clarified that from an OOU perspective.
        • Because it's pure trivia. The article establishes this pretty definitively. Toprawa and Ralltiir 00:03, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
          • Fair enough.
    • You're missing small tid bits of information regarding his corpse from The Essential Guide to Characters, which must also then be added to the source list by correct OOU publication date. Toprawa and Ralltiir 16:06, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
      • Added.
    • I also find a few issues after reading through the character's entry in the Star Wars Encyclopedia:
      • The SWE claims that Gantoris was "a possible descendant of the Jedi Ta'ania." Does any source actually definitively state him to be a descendant of her?
        • No, it doesn't. Skywalker draws this conclusion, but it is never confirmed by Gantoris himself.
          • Then your article can't definitely say she is, which it does in the intro, twice. Both instances should be reworded to resolve this. Toprawa and Ralltiir 00:03, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
            • Changed.
              • You still shouldn't say "a possible" descendant, even if SWE does make this speculation, because it's just that - speculation. Try to word it to say that Luke Skywalker believed him to be a possible descendant of Tania.
                • Now says he was believed by Luke Skywalker to be the decendent etc.
      • It also states that Kun "guided Gantoris in building his own lightsaber...." I feel this could be better stated as such in the article. Toprawa and Ralltiir 16:18, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
        • I was being diplomatic. Some sources say Kun outright taught Gantoris to construct the lightsaber. The novel Dark Apprentice says that Gantoris simple "knew" how the pieces of his lightsaber would fit together. As such stating Kun guided Gantoris' judgement incorporates both these views.
      • Finally, "...but he soon learned [the Dark Man] was the spirit of Exar Kun." Unless I've missed it, the article leaves us only with the understanding that Gantoris is unaware that the Dark Man is in fact Kun. Toprawa and Ralltiir 16:31, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
        • Interesting point. No other sources say Gantoris knew Kun was the Dark Man - I've added this to Bts rather than the main body.
          • Ok, this instead needs to be incorporated into the article somehow, unless this is a blatant discrepancy of all other sources, which it really doesn't seem to be. This is a nice little tendency SWE has, it includes little morsels of new information like this. Toprawa and Ralltiir 00:03, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
            • Integrated in bio and sourced to EGC.
      • I've covered most of your objections - I will address the remaining few when I'm not at work. and Thank's for the review. Darth Xadún(Consult the Holocron) 08:15, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
    • Your most recent addition has omitted the fact that Kun did indeed kill him. The new change just states that the students found him dead, without allowing the reader to know how. This needs to be fixed.
    • The last sentence in the Legacy section lacks a reference.
      • Not any more! ;)
    • After reading over this again, this is rather unclear to me as to what exactly is happening. What exercise? Did he duplicate the telekinesis exercise? "being able to sense all the buildings around him through the Force and perform the exercise exactly." Toprawa and Ralltiir 00:03, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
    • The second bio paragraph is lacking a source. Toprawa and Ralltiir 00:26, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
      • Not now.
  9. Should mention the rediscovery of the planet by the NR sociologist and their subsequent report on Gantoris. Afterall, that is what led Luke to the planet. Should also mention details like Gantoris housing Luke in the dead child's favourite play spot so as to keep him off-guard. That could go in both the bio and the P&T --Eyrezer 04:01, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
    • Added.
      • Just so we're all on the same page, the first part above has not been done. Xadun is also going to do some further checking so the above objection is still outstanding. --Eyrezer 03:51, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
        • In conjunction with Eyrezer's objection, I've reverted the edits made in an attempt to address this last objection because they weren't good. Xadun, I want you to go back and revisit the changes you've made while taking some time to remember the little things that you've worked hard here to get down that seemingly you've just cast aside, like not to overlink, link on the first mention of something and nowhere else, leaving the ref note immediately following punctuation, not after a space, American-English spelling (armor, not armour), not leaving words (The) randomly capitalized in the middle of sentences, not referring to people by their first names only (Luke), etc. It seems to me that you sort of just threw those edits together because you want this thing to pass once and for all, and I was quite disappointed by them. Finish up on a strong note. Toprawa and Ralltiir 15:11, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
          • Toprawa, The edits are in progress. I'm adding the additional information first before copyeditting the article for flaws such as spellings, overlinkings et cetera. Please be patient, and not revert the changes at the moment until things are all worked out. Darth Xadún(Consult the Holocron) 12:28, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
  10. My two cents
  11. *Could you give some context for the Great Sith War?
      • The event is really only used as a reference for Exar Kun, so I don't feel it's necessarily relevant to do so. The link will provide any info ;)
    • "He also wielded a lightsaber with minimal instruction," Surely you can expand on this. DC 18:15, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
      • Not really. This is what happened - Gantoris construced the lightsaber and challenged Luke the next day. The P&t really is an overview of skills - Gantoris recieved a small amount of training but took on Skywalker to a level that concerned the other students. I feel it is sufficient. Darth Xadún(Consult the Holocron) 19:10, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Inquisitorius vote to remove nom

  1. Inqvote It's been languishing here for an age, and the nominator has been working on multiple other nom so this obviously isn't high on the priority list. I'd prefer the objections be addressed and this go onto the queue, but it needs to get off this page, one way or the other. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 12:36, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
  2. Inqvote Seriously. This thing continues to sit here day after day after day. The nominator has been "fixing it" for over a month now. If he wants to get to it, fine, I can strike this vote, but we have too many noms on this page right now to be piddling around. Fix it, or lose it. Toprawa and Ralltiir 15:17, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
    • Well, mine is the outstanding objection, and I have been working on it slowly, but in actuality, I've been substantially rewriting and fact-checking it as I go along. I'm only about 1/4 of the way there, as it is not my top priority at the mo. Perhaps that means it is better to remove now and renom later if there is felt to be a desperate need to get it off the page. --Eyrezer 21:35, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
      • I disagree. No other Inq had a problem with the style in which this article was written, or there'd have been no votes for approval (after the said ojections were met). I request that the objection be overturned by another Inq, rendering this article worthy of FA status. Darth Xadún(Consult the Holocron) 21:52, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
        • If you guys would discuss this and work it out between you, it would be appreciated. Is there still an objection about something specific? I was under the impression that you were in the process of fixing the objection, but if that isn't the case and Eyrez's objection has been seen to, I think he should do it in his own time if he has nothing specific to object to. But please do try to come to some sort of arrangement, because I'm not sure of the situation myself; I just don't want this nom to sit here with no activity for weeks. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 22:02, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
          • My objection really falls under #1: "well written and detailed". As an example, I added around 90 words to the first 300 words of the bio. If such a pattern continues, there is plenty more that can still be done to improve the article. It is the situation where "technical" objections may be met, but I think the writing should be higher. --Eyrezer 22:09, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
            • We've had a bit of a talk over the IRC and the level Eyrezer is requesting will take a lot more work, so I have agreed to withdraw the nom. You guys aren't the only one fed up with this just sitting here... ;) Darth Xadún(Consult the Holocron) 22:21, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
  3. Inqvote Chack Jadson (Talk) 21:54, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
  4. Inqvote --Eyrezer 22:03, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
  5. Inqvote Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 16:41, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Comments

  • Can someone please assist with an improved copy of the Infobox image, per Eyrezer's request? Darth Xadún(Consult the Holocron) 07:26, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Culator took care of it. --Eyrezer 08:44, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
  • I will make Gantoris an FA even if it drives me mad... Darth Xadún(Consult the Holocron) 20:13, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
  • I thought of it as quite detailed but could you please expand the powers section of the page? Devan2 10:52, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
    • Is this thing ready yet? Chack Jadson (Talk) 23:21, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
      • Eyrezer still has an outstanding objection—Xadun hasn't been around, though I think he might have just gone back to school, so he'll hopefully be back to finish it off soon. :-) -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 23:31, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
        • Actually gentlemen, I've been tied up in real life recently. However, I'm in the process of dealing with Eyrezer's concerns of accuracy in the article and should be done by the end of the week. Darth Xadún(Consult the Holocron) 21:20, 9 September 2008 (UTC)