Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Darth Vader's armor/Legends

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.

Darth Vader's armor

(0 Inq/3 Users/3 Total)

Support

  1. I'M BAAAAAACK! <maniacal laughter> -Solus (Bird of Prey) 17:28, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
  2. Goodwood Redstarbird (Alliance Intelligence) 02:48, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
  3. another tribute to the phenominal capability's of collaborative writing (i.e. wookiepedians) and deserves to shown on the front page for that alone. Wilhelm screamer 02:06, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Object

  1. There are several instances where the text refers to the armor as being "donned" by Anakin/Vader. Wouldn't it be more accurate to say it was forced upon him by his circumstances and Sidious, who created and ensconced him within it without Vader's permission?--Goodwood Redstarbird (Alliance Intelligence) 22:17, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
    Maybe so, but it's 93 characters shorter; and I believe I fixed it. -Solus (Bird of Prey) 23:21, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
  2. Did not read it yet, but File:Empire Vol 3 043.jpg' seems out of place. Those...things in the background are odd. However, if a better one can not be found, I'll understand and strike my objection. Chack Jadson (Talk) 00:29, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
    Perhaps so. Solution 1: Get in tighter on his arm. Solution 2: Pick another image that has something to do with the text near the disputed image, and I can't seem to find an image that fits that. I will crop, and see if that helps. -Solus (Bird of Prey) 00:52, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
    Is that better? -Solus (Bird of Prey) 00:55, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
  3. From the squalid cubicle of Graestan:
    • The intro should be expanded to more thoroughly cover the information provided in the main body.
      Lengthened. -Solus (Bird of Prey) 14:22, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
    • [[:File:Vader_helmet3.jpg]] needs source information. File:WithinMask.jpg needs a rescan. File:BatsignalVader.jpg needs to be cropped; the frame is visible. File:Dvbones1.jpg also has a visible frame. File:A36xo.jpg could use a re-upload with better res. [[:File:Clone_Wars_Vol_9_135.jpg]] could use a rescan, and the frame cropped out.
      I believe these have all been addressed. I could not get a better res of File:A36xo.jpg, so I replaced it with a different image. -Solus (Bird of Prey) 15:57, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
      If you'd like, I'll replace File:A36xo.jpg with a HD version. Also, is there any particular reason you used File:WithinMask.jpg instead of [[:File:Vader's_helmet_internal.jpg]]? I can highdefify that one too. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 01:18, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
      If you could, I'd appreciate it. As to the reason I chose File:WithinMask.jpg instead of [[:File:Vader's_helmet_internal.jpg]] was because I can see more in the first one. In the second, you see two spikes, and the rest is black. It would probably be better if it was high-deffied, and probably done a few seconds beforehand in the movie. When the mask gets at the angle where the glare is bright, like in [[:File:Vader's_helmet_internal.jpg]], it blurs the mask. In the few seconds beforehand, there is a really good shot of the inside. -Solus (Bird of Prey) 17:53, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
      I can't rescan [[:File:Clone_Wars_Vol_9_135.jpg]] any better than it already is. If anyone can, I would appreciate it. -Solus (Bird of Prey) 15:24, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
      Maybe Image Junkie # 1 or Image Junkie # 2 can help you out. Graestan(Talk) 17:43, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
    • The BtS seems disjointed; I'm not a fan of the one-sentence paragraphs. Please reorganize. Also, is that all you could come up with for BtS information? Darth Vader's armor is iconic. A nice OOU quote for the BtS can be found, at the very least.
      I watched the III audio commentary, I watched the Chosen One featurette, I watched EOD, I watched the little II preview BTS things, and I looked through DAG. All that I found I put in the article. -Solus (Bird of Prey) 21:50, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
    • Could a scroll box be added for the notes and references so that they do not overlap so?
      Added. -Solus (Bird of Prey) 16:00, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
    • Graestan(Talk) 05:59, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
  4. Here's where Graestan gets a little more detail-oriented:
    • First sentence of intro should be rewritten. Emphasis on title of article's appearance should be dropped in favor of a sentence more flowing and less redundant. Stating that it is armor after calling is armor will not do.
      • Changed to 'suit.' -Solus (Bird of Prey) 20:03, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
        • ...and Topwara changed it back. I don't want to start an edit war over it. I'll see if I can change it in any other way. -Solus (Bird of Prey) 20:06, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
    • "The ability to be truly Human again" smacks of original research. Wasn't he aware that he could not be fully biological again?
    • Present tense in the last sentence of the second paragraph of "Description."
    • Anything more on the chain? Is it purely decorative, or does it have function?
      • Nope, nothing more on it. It looks as if its just for decoration, but I don't know of anything that says anything for or against that theory. -Solus (Bird of Prey) 20:03, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Mention the switches on his control box. Star Wars Technical Journal goes into it, I believe. In fact, you really should look at that source; if I remember correctly, it offers quite a bit.
    • One-sentence paragraph on the heart should be merged into the middle of the above paragraph.
    • Please remove weasel word "apparently."
    • Vader suffering pain on the loss of his hand sounds speculative. How do we know for sure he was expressing pain?
    • Nix any mentions like "remains a mystery." State what we do know, not what we don't.
    • "As for his hearing" reads amateurish.
    • Paragraph on nutrition has some redundancy to be worked out.
    • "Limbs" has insufficient sourcing…Episode IV does not mention anything about Vader lifting people using only the Force. In fact, you need to check over the whole article for such things; if I find another I'm going to be rather upset.
      • Thank you for pointing that out, I found another similar tidbit and deleted that one, too. -Solus (Bird of Prey) 20:03, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Remove parentheses; they read like a casual aside. Punctuation can accomplish just as much and more.
    • "Vader's breather seemed to have an automatic mode that could be more thoroughly independent of Vader's will or mind than the unconscious breathing reflex of a healthy Human. This mode was most peculiarly manifest on occasions when Vader spoke and breathed at the same time."—Smacks of OR
    • "The droids spent many days remaking him; the Ubrikkian "Galactic Chopper" DD-13 oversaw the installation of his cybernetic implants, prosthetic limbs, and synthetic organs, and the FX-9 performed numerous blood transfusions and stabilized the terrible damage done to Vader's eyes, vocal cords, scalp, face, arms, legs, and especially his lungs, which had been scarred, and were now mostly dead alveoli and constricted passages."—Exceedingly long and ponderous; break up.
    • Redundancy between the last and third-to-last paragraphs of "Origin."
    • "Probably intentionally missing his chest plate to go for the softer material beside it"—Speculation.
    • Whether or not Kadann is false is moot in this article.
    • The two one-sentence paragraphs need to be fit into other ones in "Discomfort and limitations." There are suitable homes for them.
    • First paragraph of "Lighsaber combat" cannot be adequately sourced…I don't remember Ataru or Soresu being mentioned in that book.
      • I can't find it either. Deleted. -Solus (Bird of Prey) 20:03, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
        • It is in Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader. The words "Ataru" and "Soresu" aren't used, but it's there. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 14:59, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Graestan(Talk) 18:48, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
  5. From the Grey of Man:
    • Is there a specific reason why the Appearances redirects to the Anakin Skywalker appearances? Unless I'm missing something, I don't see why the Darth Vader appearances can't be copied into this article to avoid a needless redirect.
      Done. -Solus (Bird of Prey) 15:24, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
    • No info from Perfect Evil which sees Vader's armor take a severe beating from a lightsaber totting Tusken. It seems slightly significant to mention, IMO.
      Yes, that would be important... but I don't have access to the comic. Do you know of anyone who does who can put that into the article? -Solus (Bird of Prey) 15:24, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
    Greyman(Paratus) 05:24, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
  6. Some things:
    • In the "Design" section, silver is not a "color." It is a shade of grey, which, as a mixture of black and white (I think black is a shade...), is a hue. Try and reword. Later on, you say the same thing about "grey." Grey is not a color.
      O.o Okaay. Done. -Solus (Bird of Prey) 20:14, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
    • The opening quote is not one of Vader's thoughts. It's Luceno's own prose. Try finding an actual "thought," which is represented in the novel as italicized print. I suggest, "This is not living," the line that immediately precedes what you have, on pg 63. You'll see the difference of how that is an actual thought.
      If you say so... -Solus (Bird of Prey) 20:14, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
    • I would personally like to see some kind of description of how Vader's helmet was a "death's head" representation, as I recall this being a common descriptive term in several sources.
      I haven't noticed, and wouldn't that be considered POV or too prose-y? -Solus (Bird of Prey) 20:14, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
      • I would say, no, that "death head" is simply a descriptive term, but I missed the line where you compare the helmet to a skull. That's the same thing. Toprawa and Ralltiir 22:39, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
    • Unless I've missed it, I saw nothing mentioning how the suit was a)designed by Palpatine himself (I believe it was), and b)used by him as a tool to keep Vader "down," to emphasize his own superiority, though this may have simply been Vader's own suspicions
      I nearly killed myself going through the novels and comics looking for stuff about Vader, and I don't recall seeing anything mentioned (un-speculatively) about those things. -Solus (Bird of Prey) 20:14, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
      • I may be wrong on it being designed by Palpatine. I couldn't find anything in Dark Lord, but as far as the second part, from pg. 79, if you have Dark Lord, Luceno writes, "Or...had Sidious deliberately engineered this prison?" in reference to his limitations. Try to include some information on this. Toprawa and Ralltiir 22:51, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
    • Go through and try to make links for each appropriate term.
      Done. -Solus (Bird of Prey) 20:58, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
      • It's best if each link reflects the exact title of the page it links to. As an arbitrary ex, don't just put a link around "Leia." Make sure it links to "Leia Organa Solo." I've cleaned up a good portion of the page in this manner, but try to finish up the rest for the sake of HTML perfection. Toprawa and Ralltiir 22:39, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
        • You don't need to do anything to "durasteel," for ex, since that is already the title of that page. Just incomplete names, like X-wing should link to T-65 X-wing starfighter. Toprawa and Ralltiir 23:14, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
    • Make sure each picture and quote caption is properly punctuated, meaning commas and periods, specifically.
      I believe this is taken care of. -Solus (Bird of Prey) 21:07, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
      • I went in a finished this up for you. For future reference, periods should be avoided in quotation captions. Toprawa and Ralltiir 22:39, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
    • All in all, well researched. I'm not sure how much everyone contributed, but someone took a lot of time and effort to put this thing together. I especially enjoyed seeing everything presented properly from the Shadows of the Empire novel. Toprawa and Ralltiir 19:52, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
    • Thank you. Most of the people helped me get information, or copied information from sources I could not get a hold of myself. Ataru provided constructive criticism, and Gonk helped me cull the speculative parts and made sure that I properly portrayed the technology. The text was mostly me. -Solus (Bird of Prey) 21:07, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
  7. Some more things
    • The first phrase of the intro...was it "essentially" a mobile life support system, or was it a mobile life support system?
    • Per good writing of any sort, when referring to a person initially, use their full name. All subsequent mentions of that person should include their last name only. Make sure you go through and fix anywhere where someone's first name only is used, and replace it with their last names. They aren't our friends. For future reference, you can apply this also to how you link things. It's best to always refer to something first by its official title, for ex, the T-65 X-wing starfighter, and every mention from thereon can just use "X-wing."
      • Okay, I believe I've done this. There are some instances when I used 'Luke' or 'Anakin' after their initial mention, but only to rid any confusion as to which Skywalker I'm talking about. -Solus (Bird of Prey) 05:46, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
    • I'm still concerned for some of your quotes. You need to make sure that anything you use for a quote is truly either spoken dialogue or something presented in italics that is clearly a thought. First, the Palpatine quote under the "Design" section - can you confirm that that is not prose? Secondly, Vader's "thought" under the "Meditation spheres" section. Simply by the way this is presented in third person tells me it's prose and not a direct thought. That needs to be replaced.
      • I personally don't see anything wrong with 'narrative' quotes if they are presented from someone's point of view other than the author's. The original intro quote does much better than the one we have now, and it was his thoughts. As well, the quote under 'Meditation spheres' is in the III novel, in a section whose header is, 'This is what it's like to be Anakin Skywalker.' Everything under that header is thoughts, except the italics, those are the dialogue. As well, the one under the design follows a sentence that says that 'to the shadow [Sidious], it was…a magnificent jewel box […]' It is presented as what Sidious was thinking. Stover writes some of his stuff funny. -Solus (Bird of Prey) 05:46, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
        • Putting prose into quotes doesn't work because they simply are not quotes. It defeats the purpose of having quotations in the body of the article. Only include that which is presented to us in actual quotations or in italics, both symbolizing verbal speech, be it extroverted or introverted. While this doesn't appear to be "official policy," upon some checking, I've seen others attempt to do as you are doing, and it was frowned upon. I'm going to start CT after I finish typing this. Feel free to ask some Inqs about doing as you see fit. I understand what you are saying, where some non-quotation text can be used as a quote, but this doesn't work for what you are trying. This would work in the form of someone's memoirs, or a journal, for example. And, this may be a mistake, but the quote under the Meditation section is sourced from Dark Lord, not the Episode III novel. If it's presented in third person text, it's clearly a third person/outside description, not his own thoughts. There is a difference. Toprawa and Ralltiir 06:30, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
          • I think I'm understanding you. I'll try to find something else. As for the quote I said was from the ROTS novel, I was confused, I thought you were talking of something else. -Solus (Bird of Prey) 14:50, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Also, I'm really a big proponent of Graestan's efforts to clean up the BTS sections around here. See if you can't sub-section the BTS. Toprawa and Ralltiir 23:39, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
      • If I have understood you correctly, this is done. -Solus (Bird of Prey) 05:46, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
        • Added another section to split up canon and non-canon appearances. Toprawa and Ralltiir 06:30, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
  8. Now some nitpicking
    • I'm seeing too many instances where something is linked twice within the article. Link it once in the intro, and one again in the article. Go through and make sure everything is linked only once, in its initial mention, and no where else.
    • You make alot of mentions to minor characters that I personally, having never read some of these things, have no idea who they are. Now imagine a casual Star Wars fan, who probably doesn't know who anyone is outside of the films. Who is Koffi Arana? Xora? Go through and make sure some kind of description precedes each individual, even those most familiar to us; i.e. "the bounty hunter Boba Fett," "the racist senator Strom Thurmond," whatever.
    • I know I've stripped you of some major quotes, but see if you can't dig some up somewhere. Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:22, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
    • I just noticed this. There is no mention of how Luke Skywalker dons a virtually identical suit, sans the helmet, of course, to his father after turning to the dark side in Star Wars: Dark Empire. Significant enough to warrant a mention, at the very least. Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:37, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
    • If memory serves, the novelization of A New Hope includes a sequence during the scene where Vader confronts Leia aboard the Tantive IV in which Leia defiantly spits on Vader's mask, and her saliva sizzles as if the mask is hot. Interesting enough to be included. Toprawa and Ralltiir 05:25, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Make sure you include a list of actual sources that the suit appears in, and then make sure each source is presented chronologically in respect to when it was published OOU, not by IU timeline. Upon a cursory glance at the source list on the [[List of Darth Vader appearances]] article, that list is not in proper order, so copying and pasting will only solve half of the problem. Toprawa and Ralltiir 19:59, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
    • The Appearances list needs to be formatted correctly. And researched a little more thoroughly, I might add. Thefourdotelipsis 07:32, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Now you'll need to go in and clean up AdmiralKadann's latest edit to the BTS Toprawa and Ralltiir 16:39, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Additional cleanup will be needed as others make edits in your absence. Hope you haven't crapped out on us, Solus! Toprawa and Ralltiir 23:28, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
    • I see nothing from Allegiance, which describes Vader's ability to see in the dark through his optical enhancers; and, his inability for that matter, in the moment his mask requires to adjust to sudden lighting changes. Toprawa and Ralltiir 21:22, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Solus, you're really falling behind, bru. It's up to you if you want to keep the new pic added to the BTS, but it will need to repositioned. Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:50, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Make sure the BTS includes something about Vader's armor in all prevalent media sources...I see nothing from the movie Spaceballs Toprawa and Ralltiir 22:26, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
  9. Two things:
    • "A symbol of evil that would survive forever" is POV.
    • This (bottom of A Dark Religion) provides us with some info on the Glove post-Trioculus. Although never stated, it can be presumed that Fake Kadann got his hands on the glove, and brought it with him back to space station Scardia after escaping the Lost City of the Jedi, where Azrakel and Makati killed him (Who's Who: Imperial Grand Admirals). Evil Never Dies states that Azrakel was armed with "Darth Vader's prophesied gauntlet" when he murdered the real Kadann some time later. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 08:14, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
  10. There should be a sources section also. --Eyrezer 21:46, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Comments

  • Kudos to Ataru, Gonk, 4dot, and a crumb to Culator. -Solus (Bird of Prey) 17:28, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
  • An amazing article, but on a quick read I noticed you have Bol Chatak as male. She was a she, in fact. Harrar 11:25, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
  • With a month of inactivity on the article by the nominator, I'm another day or so away from starting an Inq vote to remove this nom. Greyman(Paratus) 23:54, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Remove nomination (Inq only vote)

  1. It's been more than six weeks since the nominator has made any sort of edit to the article, and more than a week since I left the above warning in the comments section. Greyman(Paratus) 19:58, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  2. Inqvote Basically, per Greyman. Hobbes(Tiger's Lair) 03:23, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
  3. Inqvote Nyaa, what he said! Graestan(Talk) 03:24, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
  4. Inqvote So sad. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 04:03, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
  5. Inqvote What a pity. To come so far only to fall. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 04:04, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
    • Not even to fall. Just to stop, turn around, and go home. I'd be less disappointed if it had some fatal, glaring error that just couldn't possibly be fixed. But it doesn't. It's just not quite done. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 04:19, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
  6. Inqvote Kill it to death. Havac 04:06, 14 February 2008 (UTC)