- The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a comprehensive article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.
Sun shawl
- Nominated by: Darth Morrt 15:14, November 4, 2010 (UTC)
- Nomination comments:
(3 ECs/2 Users/5 Total)
Support
Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 15:50, November 7, 2010 (UTC)- You are my sunshawl, my only sunshawl, you make me happy, when skies are gray... ~ SavageBob 16:32, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
- OLIOSTER (talk) 07:12, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
- ♫ "…you were my sun shawl and the rain…" 1358 (Talk) 10:27, November 13, 2010 (UTC)
- Menkooroo 13:35, November 14, 2010 (UTC)
Object
- Jujiggum
If that's not the shawl in the image, then I don't really think it's needed in the article. I'm guessing, though, that you aren't sure, hence the possible appearance in Star Wars 1?- According to the novel, this woman wore a sun shawl in this scene. I don't know, whether the penciller had known this. Should I remove {Pos}?
- No, the {{[[Template:pos|pos]]}} should definitely stay, but I don't think the image is really needed… Does the novel give any further description of the shawl that would make it evident that the woman in the comic panel is definitely wearing it? Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 00:33, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
- This is the one and only mention of the shawl in the novel: "... a lone old woman appeared and started across the street. Her metallic sun shawl was pulled tight around her. Something made her look up, tired eyes squinting into the distance. The sound suddenly leaped in volume as a shining rectangular shape came roaring around a far corner. Her eyes popped as the vehicle bore down on her..." No description. I think the image should be here, because it is the only possible depiction of the sun shawl. Darth Morrt 01:37, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
- Okay, but I've placed it in the BTS instead of the Appearances section. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 19:13, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
- This is the one and only mention of the shawl in the novel: "... a lone old woman appeared and started across the street. Her metallic sun shawl was pulled tight around her. Something made her look up, tired eyes squinting into the distance. The sound suddenly leaped in volume as a shining rectangular shape came roaring around a far corner. Her eyes popped as the vehicle bore down on her..." No description. I think the image should be here, because it is the only possible depiction of the sun shawl. Darth Morrt 01:37, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
- No, the {{[[Template:pos|pos]]}} should definitely stay, but I don't think the image is really needed… Does the novel give any further description of the shawl that would make it evident that the woman in the comic panel is definitely wearing it? Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 00:33, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
- According to the novel, this woman wore a sun shawl in this scene. I don't know, whether the penciller had known this. Should I remove {Pos}?
On that note: the article needs a BTS, and more specifically you need to address the possible appearance of the shawl in Star Wars 1 there.- Bts added.
- "The sun shawl could have appeared…" Why the speculative tone here? Could have? DO we know that it would have appeared? If not, then just mention its appearance in the novel, then say that the scene involving the woman who wore the shawl in the novel was filmed, but cut from the final film. Also, you still need to explain why Star Wars 1 is only a possible appearance of the shawl. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 00:33, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
- Better? Darth Morrt 01:37, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
- A few things here: "The scene involving the old woman was cut before the release of the film." This mention comes out of the blue; without some more context here, it's confusing. You need to specify beforehand that the scene with the woman was shot at all before you say that it was cut from the film. You should also source this section of the BTS, particularly that the scene was cut from the released version of A New Hope. Also, I think you could explain a little better why the appearance in the comic was ambiguous. Please state that the woman appeared dressed in a white garment, but that "without description or known authorial intention" we don't know if it actually was the shawl. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 19:13, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
- I don't have any source that the woman's scene was ever filmed. It is in the script and missing from the film. I stated that the scene was "cut before the release of the film", because I don't know, whether it was cut from the film or from the script during production. The color style of the comic is not always realistic, so it cannot be stated that the shawl is white. Isn't it safe enough to delete the {pos}? Thinking about it, this kind of thoroughness can lead to questioning any visual source. Darth Morrt 17:08, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
- That's precisely what my point was—without further context, it was confusing to the reader, leading me to believe that the scene had definitely been filmed. Now that you've expanded this mention, though, it makes sense. Also, you seem to have misunderstood the other part of my objection. I did not want you to remove the "without description or known authorial intention" bit—and it's for that very reasoning that we can't say for sure that the woman in the comic was wearing the shawl. Again, please explain that the woman appeared in a garment, but without further description and known intent, we can't say for certain that it was the shawl. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 20:47, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
- Yeh, I've misunderstood it, sorry. Darth Morrt 10:21, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
- That's precisely what my point was—without further context, it was confusing to the reader, leading me to believe that the scene had definitely been filmed. Now that you've expanded this mention, though, it makes sense. Also, you seem to have misunderstood the other part of my objection. I did not want you to remove the "without description or known authorial intention" bit—and it's for that very reasoning that we can't say for sure that the woman in the comic was wearing the shawl. Again, please explain that the woman appeared in a garment, but without further description and known intent, we can't say for certain that it was the shawl. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 20:47, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
- I don't have any source that the woman's scene was ever filmed. It is in the script and missing from the film. I stated that the scene was "cut before the release of the film", because I don't know, whether it was cut from the film or from the script during production. The color style of the comic is not always realistic, so it cannot be stated that the shawl is white. Isn't it safe enough to delete the {pos}? Thinking about it, this kind of thoroughness can lead to questioning any visual source. Darth Morrt 17:08, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
- A few things here: "The scene involving the old woman was cut before the release of the film." This mention comes out of the blue; without some more context here, it's confusing. You need to specify beforehand that the scene with the woman was shot at all before you say that it was cut from the film. You should also source this section of the BTS, particularly that the scene was cut from the released version of A New Hope. Also, I think you could explain a little better why the appearance in the comic was ambiguous. Please state that the woman appeared dressed in a white garment, but that "without description or known authorial intention" we don't know if it actually was the shawl. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 19:13, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
- Better? Darth Morrt 01:37, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
- "The sun shawl could have appeared…" Why the speculative tone here? Could have? DO we know that it would have appeared? If not, then just mention its appearance in the novel, then say that the scene involving the woman who wore the shawl in the novel was filmed, but cut from the final film. Also, you still need to explain why Star Wars 1 is only a possible appearance of the shawl. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 00:33, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
- Bts added.
Hmm, just because one person on Tatooine is shown to wear the shawl doesn't mean that the shawls were completely affiliated with them. For all we know, she may have been the only one on Tatooine to use it (not likely, but the point is that we don't know)- Removed.
You say a woman wore "a metallic shawl" to protect herself from the binary stars of the Tatoo system; however, you have yet to state that this type of shawl was metallic, so you could be referring to a different kind of shawl here for all the reader knows.- Fixed.
- This remains. You still don't specify earlier that the shawl was metallic. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 00:33, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
- IMO, just the woman's sun shawl is known to be metalic. Other sun shawls' material could be different. Darth Morrt 01:37, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
- This remains. You still don't specify earlier that the shawl was metallic. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 00:33, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
- Fixed.
Why isn't Star Wars 1 italicized in the appearances section?- Fixed.
Also, just to verify—there are no applicable quotes?- The only possible quote would be the one in the image, but I think it is not related.
- No, that's not related at all. I just wanted to be sure. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 00:33, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
- The only possible quote would be the one in the image, but I think it is not related.
- Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 21:06, November 4, 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks for the copy-edit. Darth Morrt 23:54, November 4, 2010 (UTC)
Sorry to play devil's advocate here. But... the novelization says she's wearing a sun shawl in the scene. The comic depicts the very same scene. ... Where's the ambiguity?Menkooroo 07:20, November 9, 2010 (UTC)- Her cloth in the comic doesn't seem to be a shawl to me. But I am not sure. Darth Morrt 09:10, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
- The article admits that there isn't any description of what the sun shawl looks like. Instead of assuming that it's identical to its Earthly analogue, I think it would make more sense to go with what we do know (that is, next to nothing). The novel and the comic depict the exact same scene, and I really don't see any discrepancy. Menkooroo 03:59, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
- Fixed. Darth Morrt 14:54, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
- Cool, thanks. However, the bts states: The scene involving the old woman appeared in the Revised Fourth Draft of A New Hope, --- can you mention that the scene appears in Star Wars 1 as well? Menkooroo 06:18, November 11, 2010 (UTC)
- Added. Darth Morrt 10:12, November 11, 2010 (UTC)
- Cool, thanks. However, the bts states: The scene involving the old woman appeared in the Revised Fourth Draft of A New Hope, --- can you mention that the scene appears in Star Wars 1 as well? Menkooroo 06:18, November 11, 2010 (UTC)
- Fixed. Darth Morrt 14:54, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
- The article admits that there isn't any description of what the sun shawl looks like. Instead of assuming that it's identical to its Earthly analogue, I think it would make more sense to go with what we do know (that is, next to nothing). The novel and the comic depict the exact same scene, and I really don't see any discrepancy. Menkooroo 03:59, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
- Her cloth in the comic doesn't seem to be a shawl to me. But I am not sure. Darth Morrt 09:10, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
Could you use {{cite web}} for your external link?1358 (Talk) 19:57, November 12, 2010 (UTC)- I have changed it not to be external. Darth Morrt 01:00, November 13, 2010 (UTC)
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