Talk: Unidentified Sith Lord (Post–Sith Civil War)

Article milestones Date Process Result March 06, 2013 Comprehensive article nomination Success March 10, 2013 Comprehensive article by Jedi Kasra
Current status: Comprehensive article

Kreia

• What does the Kreia/Traya typo have to do with the existance of this guy? At the end of KotOR II all known Darths are dead and both known Sith Acadamies are destroyed. The new thing in NEC is that it states that this Darth Vir allowed the lineage to go on, opposed to what we beleived before: that Ruin re-invented the title in 2000 BBY. Charlii 14:11, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • If NEC could go wrong to such an extend that Kreia and Traya are 2 different person, maybe it could also forget that Kreia = Traya and both would die in any ending of the game. Darth Kevinmhk 14:52, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
    • I suppose it could, but nothing in the text indicates it. Darth Kreia was a typo, according to Dan Wallace. Charlii 15:04, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
      • Um, where is the name "Darth Vir" from? --Sauron18 07:15, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
        • "Adas Xendor" made it up, and has bene placed on a 1-week ban after continually re-inserting it after being told not to. Kuralyov 07:21, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
          • Ah, thought so, thanks for clearing it up, all of it --Sauron18 07:22, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
            • Is it even remotely possible that this Darth is also a Traya, Kreia did say there would always be one. Though I doubt all of them took the name Traya.RushinSundaws 17:33, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
            • I doubt she meant her name would literally be used by at least one Sith Lord. What she probably means is that her charcter would be reflected in the many Darths to come, such as Darth Vader (betrayed Jedi, betrayed by Sidious).--Ranat 23 21:47, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

well since the character was dubbed Darth Kreia, should that be the temp name?

Isn't this all just speculation based on a typo? - 64.83.57.178 18:59, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

"It is probable that this unknown Sith Lord served under either Darth Nihilus or Darth Sion."

Isn't this simply fanon? --Imp 13:48, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

• Yes, but isn't it fairly obvious that he would have been working under them? I still don't think it's needed, since anyone can make that conclusion. Cull Tremayne 00:13, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Or he/she could have been one of the myriads of "orphaned" Sith from the Jedi Civil War. It's speculation, and it's outta here. --Imp 01:07, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
    • Isn't this whole article speculation? Bub^Talk 23:31, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
      • Impossible... I think this "unknown Darth" is another one like Sion: one who escaped alive from the Sith Academy after Revan's gone. Perhaps he tried to learn about the Sith in another place (Sion gone to Malachor V, to the Trayus Academy, and this another one could had gone to anoterh planet, like Ziost). Still, I have impression that this is Darth Andeddu... Momergil 22:45, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

What would it take to give a name to this individual?

In another form, this is a question of "How does C-Canon come about?"... Admittedly, in a strange sort of way I have my own little segment of roleplayed Star Wars timeline which hasn't ever had a precise place to be deposited, though was intentionally placed around roughly this sort of time. Needless to say I'm a nobody, but if I was going to put my own creation: Darth Proditus anywhere... here would almost certainly be the place due to his nature and backstory. Though I never concluded amongst my group who his master was, Darth Nihilus seems a prime candidate. Odd it is that there happens to essentially be a gap right here. I suppose numerous other people would want to put a claim on the gap too if they could, and I'm not even registered here. Admittedly there is no shortage of other smaller (and less appropriate) gaps around. So, for my amusement, would anyone mind telling me how I could (if I felt up to it) get something published and branded as C-Canon? =P (~ SotiCoto)

• The most possible way for that to happen would be for the higher-ups at SW.com to decide to have a What's the Story? contest for his name. You could enter your character in the contest and the winner would be chosen. As of right now though, it cannot be placed here. Atarumaster88 ^{(Audience Chamber)} 16:49, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Maybe mail George Lucas?Telos 21:39, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

The Verdict?

In my opinion, this article should be deleted. I think this Sith Order were extinct after KOTOR II, and Darth Ruin made a new Sith Order. Telos 21:42, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

• Feel free to put up a VFD, but I doubt you'll get much votes since the NEC is rather clear on this. Charlii 10:02, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

The "True Sith" were not extinct, no. Revan went to fight them in the Unknown Regions while threats from Malachor V and the Rakata spawned elsewhere.

• It is said of Darth Ruin in Evil Never Dies that he unified the remaining Sith factions. Thus, I believe that the Unknown Darth's line of succession was one of these groups, thus making Ruin's new Sith order of the same line of Sith Lord from ages past. Because let's not forget that Anakin bringing balance to the Force by "destroying the Sith" suggests that he got rid of an age old, unbroken line of succession. Thus, every time the Sith were seemingly completely wiped out in the past, there had to have been some surviving Sith in between those eras - or the spirit of one - around to pass on the same line of succession. Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma were ordained by the spirit of Marka Ragnos, Revan and Malak were ordained by the remaining Sith on Korriban as Shadows and Light suggests (most likely left-over followers of Exar Kun, and likely after Revan and Malak conquered them), Ruin was likely ordained by those who carried on the line of the Unknown Darth's posterity once Ruin unified all of the scattered Sith clans, and finally, Bane was a survivor of the Brotherhood of Darkness. This unbroken line of succession would continue until the time of Sidious and Vader, when the later would destroy his master and then himself die, thus cutting off the line permanently. (This would also mean that Lumiya, Caedus, Krayt and all of their followers were not real Sith in the eyes of the Force as they were not of that same line of succession, which was cut off with Sidious and Vader. While Vader may have trained Lumiya and taught her many Sith techniques and secrets, he never ordained her a Sith.) Anyway, in a round-about way of saying it, this is how I reconcile this discrepancy. I just hope the future Darth Ruin novel mentioned by Pena doesn't shoot my theory to Hell. (Sorry. I always tend to ramble.) 24.3.202.85 02:40, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Uhm, yes... This article is based upon a quote stating that the Sith survived between the Old and New Sith Wars. Charlii 07:58, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
    • Which is exactly what I'm saying. 24.3.202.85 17:15, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

What if...

What if this unknown Darth is one of the other two Darth Wyyrlok's? This isn't impossible since it's unknown when they lived, etc... but it's just a thought. —Unsigned comment by Pelle (talk • contribs)

A Jedi?

• Whats the source for this character being a former member of the jedi order.-Darth Vindictus
  • None, removing. Charlii 14:52, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

The exile

Is it possible that this character could be the exile, making the dark side ending cannon as Leland Chee was hoping —Unsigned comment by 172.214.142.133 (talk • contribs)

• A DS Jedi Exile wouldn't be referred to as a "heroine". Also, Malachor V is only destroyed (which it canonically is) in the LS ending. Kebla 20:20, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
  • where dose it say malacor was destroyed? what source makes this true? and as far as the exile being a heroine, well that can be taken many ways. —Unsigned comment by 68.159.68.251 (talk • contribs)
    • The New Essential Guide to Droids, apparently, which states that HK-47 and a bunch of HK-51s destroy Goto, allowing for the activation of the Mass Shadow Generator. Kebla 07:55, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

?

How could this "Unknown Darth" be in the Sith Triumvirate during the First Jedi Purge when there were already three members of it? If it's a Triumvirate, there are only three people. --FireV 21:08, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

• IF you played the game, you will notice there were quite a few Sith serving under them Triumvirs. He/She could easily have been one of them. Jasca Ducato _{Sith Council} ^{Sith Campaign} 19:40, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Yes, I know. But if that is the case, he can't be referred as a member of the Sith Triumvirate. That wouldn't make sense. It would be better as "he served under the Sith Triumvirate". --FireV 22:49, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
    • If you'd read the article about the Triumvirate you should know that the word relates to the organization ruled by the triumvirs, not the triumvirs themselves. Charlii 00:31, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
• No need to be so condescending. No, the Sith Triumvirate itself is the alliance of the three Sith lords. They had assassins serving under them, but there were three Dark Lords. See the talk page of the Sith Triumvirate article. It comes from the root word "triumvir" meaning:

-One of three officers or magistrates mutually exercising the same public function. (from Roman history). Therefore the triumvirate is the three Sith Lords, though again, they have assassins and other force users serving under them, but the Triumvirate itself is an alliance of three Sith, each of whom happen to have followers.70.49.88.159 20:28, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

• They were not all Dark Lords. The only Dark Lord was Darth Nihilus, and he assumed the title after betraying Traya. {{SUBST:User:Jasca Ducato/Sig}} 19:13, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

If you believe that the phrase "Sith Triumvirate" must have three sith masters, then, well, I guess this guy replaced traya. Destroyer Droid 06:48, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Chee and name

Can someone provide a link to this? Kuralyov 18:10, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I beileve a fan e-mailed Chee in person to ask if this was a real character or just a typo, Chee replied stating it wasnt a secret and that lucas arts were in the process of realesing a press statement, I think theres a discussion about it on the force.net.--172.215.31.72 18:16, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

• Until someone can provide something factual, the claim of a single user with a history of fanon won't be enough. Kuralyov
  • I knew that something was wrong when a KotOR III was mentioned. —Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 18:22, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Removal

Anyone think this should be removed? The Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide states that Revan's order became extinct and "weren't seen again in the Force." The next Sith would be the true sith emperor from the Old Republic MMO, and we don't know what his name is. User:1705jallen

I agree, it's rather redundant now The b-Unit's167th Drophyd 09:45, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

I agree. This article was made before we knew that the sith empire was still out in deep space. This particular sith probably never existed. The teachings of the dark side would have been passed down by the thousands of sith living in the sith empire. Bshardy 19:11, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

I don't have the NCO, what is the exact wording of this guy's supposed mention. I agree that it doesn't seem that any Sith of Revan's tradition survived Malachor. --DarthEinstein 22:57, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

This article is pure conjecture and no longer needs to exist given the revelations of the Sith Empire from SWTOR. This article should be deleted. --Shneb (talk) 00:29, March 6, 2014 (UTC)

There is no official mention of him. This article was created on the assumption that since the sith order exists in the future, an unknown Sith must have survived. This was made before we learned that the true sith empire still existed. Since speculation isn't allowed, this article should be deleted. Anyone object? Bshardy 05:46, July 10, 2011 (UTC)

The basis for this article was the New Essential CHronology as stated above. Can anyone give an exact quote from that here. If it does not say anything specific that makes this character different from the Sith Emperor, this has to be deleted. Can one of the Admins help out here? IthinkIwannaLeia^WaddaUthink? 07:58, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

• It wouldn't necessarily have to be deleted because, due to the mention in the NEC, the character was, at least for a time, canon. Therefore, we would have to keep the article, as "cut" canon. Wookieepedia has articles for other cut characters, so there is a precedent for this. --144.173.6.127 09:04, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
  • In addition, there is no offfical source that suggests that this is the Sith Emperor, who did not exist in canon at the time that the NEC was written. Therefore such a claim is speculative. --144.173.6.127 09:06, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

The Unidentified Darth's name

Maybe their name could be something like Darth Acheron, Judicar or Paxis. I'm sure their name is mentioned in 'Star Wars: The Old Republic'

-JM2006

Re-allow Editing for 'Behind the Scenes': Account for the Character's Much Lessened Importance

If, as it has been decided, we ought not to remove this page, would it not be a good a idea to re-allow editing, specifically to add some details to the 'Behind the Scenes' section? Namely thus: that this character was (in all probability) created for the purpose of filling in a gap, that is, how the Sith and 'Darth' title continued from KoTOR 2 to later works, which, at the time of the release of the New Essential Chronology, was unclear. Now that SWTOR exists however, Sith tradition is fairly explicitly continued by Darth Vitiate's empire and so a single Sith to carry on the 'Darth' title and other traditions (and indeed "during the centuries to come") isn't really needed and doesn't make a whole lot of sense either. As someone not wholly familiar with this era myself, I feel this page presents the character as they were originally intended to be - a character of fairly large importance in the continuation of the Sith - it took a bit more digging to discover that this was not the case. It seems to me that the page should state this explicitly (in the Behind the Scenes section at least) to avoid giving the wrong impression.

(User:Spottyfriend 22:45, September 12, 2018 (UTC))