Naming
Judging by the text of Legacy 14, Wyyrlok III's daughter had not yet assumed the title. He was conserned about being "the last." How do we go about this? It's fairly inacurate to keep it at "Darth Wyyrlok IV," but we really don't have any other name for her. Is there some sort of tag that could be used? Din's Fire 997 18:50, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, the conjecture tag. However, if it would be okay with you, I'd like to get the issue tonight and look over it before the template is placed on the page. —Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision)
22:05, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
- Having just read the issue, it appears that Wyyrlok III's daughter has already taken or will be taking the name "Wyyrlok" to continue the tradition. Or Wyyrlok may just be thinking that she will. No matter which case, it appears her name is Darth Wyyrlok IV. —Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision)
00:16, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
- Having just read the issue, it appears that Wyyrlok III's daughter has already taken or will be taking the name "Wyyrlok" to continue the tradition. Or Wyyrlok may just be thinking that she will. No matter which case, it appears her name is Darth Wyyrlok IV. —Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision)
- "I am Wyyrlok. Always the first of his servants, the one closest to him, the one nearest his thoughts. I wonder if I shall be the last. I have no concern for myself. My line continues with a daughter in training on Korriban. She will be a fine Wyyrlok in her time."
- ―Darth Wyyrlok III
- I highlighted the important parts. It's clear that she is not yet Wyyrlok, but will be. Thus, the conjecture tag isn't quite proper. I don't recall ever having to worry about a character who has yet to take a name, but has one planned for later life. In anycase, something needs to be added, as she clearly isn't Wyyrlok during the only source that mentions her. Din's Fire 997 02:19, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
- Probably should just explain it in the BTS. -- Ozzel 02:51, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
- There's two ways of interpreting the "will be a fine Wyyrlok" part: one, she has not taken that name yet, or two, she already has and is in training. —Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) 12:04, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
- I'll give you that, but couple it with ""shall be the last" and it's pretty clear she has yet to assume the mantle. Regardless, since it's clear we're not moving the article, I'll add something to BtS later if no one else cares to. Din's Fire 997 13:11, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
- You misinterpreted something, however: "I wonder if I shall be the last" was in reference to Krayt dying (meaning there would be no chief lieutenant position), and had nothing to with Wyyrlok III's daughter. —Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) 18:15, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
- Firstly, I did not "misinterpret" anything. I interpreted differently from you: not the same thing. (Although now that you've pointed that out, I DO agree with you) Regardless, the fact is that the text is slightly confusing at best, rather ambiguous at worst, and she is never called “Wyyrlok” in a clear-cut context. It is still, technically, an educated guess. The odds of it being wrong? Next to nil. But the odds of Boba Fett being alive after RotJ were nil too, and look how THAT turned out. Warrant’s a sentence or two. Din's Fire 997 20:49, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
- Sorry, but I disagree. Wyyrlok III's daughter is called a Wyyrlok in canon, no matter what. Therefore, Wyyrlok IV is canon. —Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) 22:19, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
- Correction: she may be called Wyyrlok in canon. It may be a future title she has yet to assume. Therefore, at this moment, it is somewhat a grey area regarding what canon is in this case. Obviously, neither of us can say, being too biased. We need a tie-breaker, someone from the outside. Din's Fire 997 00:30, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
- The fact that she is called a Wyyrlok in the comic, whether or not she assumed the title yet, is enough to make her Wyyrlok IV in canon. I really don't see why you're so against this. —Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) 15:50, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
- That's just it: whether she was called Wyyrlok or not, if she didn't assume the title it isn't canon. She could die or the Sith could be wiped out before she ever takes the title, in which case, there is no Darth Wyyrlok IV, and thus this article should not exist. I'm not saying a move to Unnamed heir to the Darth Wyyrlok title is a good idea, just that a small, brief explanation of the ambiguous nature of the text should be included in the BtS, mentioning that it is unclear whether or not she has formally been named. Is that so much to ask? Din's Fire 997 20:33, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
- No, you don't get it. The fact that she is referred to as a Wyyrlok in the comic makes her canonically Darth Wyyrlok IV. It's as simple as that, and it really can't be argued against. —Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) 21:44, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
- Obviously it can, or this discussion wouldn’t still be going on. It’s very simple:
1) The character in question may or may not have taken on the name “Darth Wyyrlok.”
2) If not, she may perish, switch sides, or any number of possible alternatives before assuming the title
3) If she does so, she will not be “Darth Wyyrlok”
4) If true, there is no Darth Wyyrlok IV
Yes, I am aware that is quite a list of qualifiers. Yes, the odds are against it. Yes, this is a technicality. But there is a chance, however unlikely, that she is NOT Darth Wyyrlok, that she will never BE Darth Wyyrlok, and that the Wyyrlok line shall end with the Third, the comment in question an assumed remark by an in-universe persona. The text is simply too unclear not to have a clarifier included in the article. You yourself said it can be interpreted different ways, and we need to explain that to the reader. It all boils down to where you choose to put emphasis: if on the word "will," she isn't, if on the word "fine" she is.Din's Fire 997 22:57, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
- Obviously it can, or this discussion wouldn’t still be going on. It’s very simple:
- No, you don't get it. The fact that she is referred to as a Wyyrlok in the comic makes her canonically Darth Wyyrlok IV. It's as simple as that, and it really can't be argued against. —Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision)
- That's just it: whether she was called Wyyrlok or not, if she didn't assume the title it isn't canon. She could die or the Sith could be wiped out before she ever takes the title, in which case, there is no Darth Wyyrlok IV, and thus this article should not exist. I'm not saying a move to Unnamed heir to the Darth Wyyrlok title is a good idea, just that a small, brief explanation of the ambiguous nature of the text should be included in the BtS, mentioning that it is unclear whether or not she has formally been named. Is that so much to ask? Din's Fire 997 20:33, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
- The fact that she is called a Wyyrlok in the comic, whether or not she assumed the title yet, is enough to make her Wyyrlok IV in canon. I really don't see why you're so against this. —Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision)
- Correction: she may be called Wyyrlok in canon. It may be a future title she has yet to assume. Therefore, at this moment, it is somewhat a grey area regarding what canon is in this case. Obviously, neither of us can say, being too biased. We need a tie-breaker, someone from the outside. Din's Fire 997 00:30, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
- Sorry, but I disagree. Wyyrlok III's daughter is called a Wyyrlok in canon, no matter what. Therefore, Wyyrlok IV is canon. —Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision)
- Firstly, I did not "misinterpret" anything. I interpreted differently from you: not the same thing. (Although now that you've pointed that out, I DO agree with you) Regardless, the fact is that the text is slightly confusing at best, rather ambiguous at worst, and she is never called “Wyyrlok” in a clear-cut context. It is still, technically, an educated guess. The odds of it being wrong? Next to nil. But the odds of Boba Fett being alive after RotJ were nil too, and look how THAT turned out. Warrant’s a sentence or two. Din's Fire 997 20:49, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
- You misinterpreted something, however: "I wonder if I shall be the last" was in reference to Krayt dying (meaning there would be no chief lieutenant position), and had nothing to with Wyyrlok III's daughter. —Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision)
- I'll give you that, but couple it with ""shall be the last" and it's pretty clear she has yet to assume the mantle. Regardless, since it's clear we're not moving the article, I'll add something to BtS later if no one else cares to. Din's Fire 997 13:11, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
- There's two ways of interpreting the "will be a fine Wyyrlok" part: one, she has not taken that name yet, or two, she already has and is in training. —Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision)
- Probably should just explain it in the BTS. -- Ozzel 02:51, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
- "Obviously it can, or this discussion wouldn't still be going on". Now, that's your fault, I hope you realize. You're making up all these possibilities, none of which have any canonical standing, except for the fact that Wyyrlok III refers to his daughter as a Wyyrlok in canon. Please, give it a rest already. It's canon, and you can't change that. Arguing against it won't help, either. Take my advice: Don't prolong things when they don't need to be. —Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) 11:54, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
- No, she's not canonically Wyyrlok. She will be. Will. As in, future tense. As in, Wyyrlok is speculating. As in, she is not yet canonically Wyyrlok. - Lord Hydronium 12:01, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
- It's more like this: canonically, she is going to be a Wyyrlok. And since we have everything in past tense here, she is Wyyrlok IV. —Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) 12:06, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
- Jack: No, the conjecture tag is not fitting, for all the reasons above. Give it up, kid. Darth Maddolis 12:08, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
- Anakin was destined to be the 'chosen one'- but he didn't canonically follow that path (although it can be interpreted in a number of different ways)- the same concept applies. Darth Maddolis 12:11, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
- You have no proof that she ever became Darth Wyyrlok. Hence, to say she did would be speculation, and not canon. - Lord Hydronium 12:12, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
- If there wasn't so many damn edit conflicts, I would have gotten this through earlier: As the majority is now against me, I suppose mentioning something in the "Behind the scenes" section will be fine. —Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) 12:13, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
- The child is not and has never been Wyyrlok. It is the current Darth Wyylok's intent that she succeed him. He thinks she will make a fine Wyyrlok in her time. In her time is not now. She has never, ever, been canonically stated to be a Wyyrlok. She has been canonically stated to be Darth Wyyrlok's preferred successor with the intent she take up the name some day. Darth Sidious, at the end of Twilight, expressed his belief that Quinlan Vos would make a good servant of the dark side some day. That did not canonically make him a Sith acolyte. You are treating one character's personal beliefs on the projected future path of a character as concrete fact, which is simply incorrect. We currently have no confirmed name for this character. The article should be moved. Havac 01:06, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
- If there wasn't so many damn edit conflicts, I would have gotten this through earlier: As the majority is now against me, I suppose mentioning something in the "Behind the scenes" section will be fine. —Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision)
- Jack: No, the conjecture tag is not fitting, for all the reasons above. Give it up, kid. Darth Maddolis 12:08, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
- It's more like this: canonically, she is going to be a Wyyrlok. And since we have everything in past tense here, she is Wyyrlok IV. —Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision)
- No, she's not canonically Wyyrlok. She will be. Will. As in, future tense. As in, Wyyrlok is speculating. As in, she is not yet canonically Wyyrlok. - Lord Hydronium 12:01, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
- If I could jest get my two creds in here...do we have a better name for her? -- SFH 01:11, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
- Darth Wyyrlok III's daughter? —Silly Dan (talk) 01:27, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
- Yeah. And Havac, I get it. I'm not arguing this anymore. —Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) 11:56, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
- Yeah. And Havac, I get it. I'm not arguing this anymore. —Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision)
- Darth Wyyrlok III's daughter? —Silly Dan (talk) 01:27, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Can't Serve Krayt
On the page that lists all the Wyyrlok's, we have Wyyrlok IV as Darth Krayt's future chief lieutenant. That can't really happen anymore seeing as Darth Krayt is dead. I suggest changing it to something like stating her relationship to Wyyrlok III or anything else that doesn't have to do with Krayt. Thoughts? Darth Kynval 03:42, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
- lol she still can serve him if he's dead, no one elles knows Krayt is dead, and hear the phrase "I'll serve you in death my lord" thats most likely what they'll do... Everyone thinks Krayt is in his healing thingy to get well, so the Wyyrlok's will still carry the title of being Krayts Chief lieutendant, cause from were all of the Sith but Wyyrlok see's it; nothing has changed... --Thrawn Du Gard 10:54, 8 May 2009 (UTC)