Forum:TC:Vette's padded jacket

Forums > Trash compactor archive > TC:Vette's padded jacket

This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or, if the page was deleted, in the Senate Hall rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was No consensus; default to keep. Toprawa and Ralltiir 19:28, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

Vette's padded jacket (talk - history - links - logs)

Recently, the Trash Compactor nomination for Ithorian mariner's loose wrap closed with a consensus to keep. Embedded in this is the precedent to keep most (if not all) of the individual armor and weapon items from Star Wars: The Old Republic (SWTOR), a precedent I agree with for the most part. However, with other gear, that intended for specific companion characters, things are different. This includes such items as Vette's padded jacket, Vette's slicing boots, and Vette's slicing pants. For these, I think there is enough difference to warrant a separate nomination.

Some background on these items: When you get companion characters in SWTOR, they usually come equipped with items named for them: "Bowdaar's heavy boots," "Kaliyo's padded bracers." These are unique items to the companion characters. During the game, you receive upgrades for these items as rewards for normal quests. Companion-named gear is never available from in-game vendors, and it cannot be equipped to anyone but the companion for whom it is named.

Because of this, I feel that these objects should be treated as non-notable personal items and deleted. Keeping these items as notable would establish precedent for making articles for literally every item of clothing any character in Star Wars wears ever. Han Solo's shirt, Luke Skywalker's floppy hat, Gorneesh's eyepatch, Crix Madine's uniform—you get the idea. There are certainly cases where personal gear is notable, like with individually crafted items like lightsabers, say. But there is no evidence of that here. These just appear to be things the companions happened to be wearing when they joined you and later (game mechanics) rewards for questing.

To anticipate one of the arguments made for keeping the Ithorian mariner's wraps (an item that, in contrast, is mass-produced in-universe and not unique to one specific character): yes, the Internet is not running out of space, and yes, this wiki has a low notability threshold for many things. However, our editorial capacity does have a limit, and opening the door to trivial, mundane clothing items that a character wears is a slippery slope, in my opinion.

Delete

  1. Per above. ~SavageBOB sig 13:13, March 13, 2012 (UTC)
  2. 501st DogmaRepublic emblem(Comlink) 15:52, March 13, 2012 (UTC)
  3. Definitely. Corellian PremierRobotechAll along the watchtower 02:40, March 14, 2012 (UTC)
  4. Clone Commander Lee Talk 12:28, March 20, 2012 (UTC)
  5. I don't think we need another CT to determine notability. I just plain agree with Bob, here. Lando's cape and so forth? Really? graestan(talk) 12:13, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

Keep

Close TC without prejudice so a clear policy can be worked out

  1. Per below, this would best be worked out in a CT to determine notability for IU stuff. Let's shut this down, work out the policy, and then come back to this discussion once we have a policy to judge it against. —MJ— Jedi Council Chambers Wednesday, March 21, 2012, 22:36 UTC
  2. Sounds good to me.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 22:58, March 21, 2012 (UTC)
  3. Aye. Let's be clear on a policy for this before we run about judging each article case-by-case. (Of course, there may be no consensus on a policy and we may end up judging each article case-by-case anyway, but we can at least try.) Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 18:32, March 22, 2012 (UTC)
  4. These don't make a precedent for Luke's floppy hat or whatever. They are in-game itenms with stats and specifics about them. Though they should be included as info in the character's article, like Carth's blaster was (And I still say non-info-exclusive lightsaber articles should be this way as well). There's no need to blow up the issue with examples that would never happen. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 20:22, March 22, 2012 (UTC)
  5. An IU notability policy being seriously discussed? Hooray! —Silly Dan (talk) 01:32, March 27, 2012 (UTC)
  6. 1358 (Talk) 08:23, March 28, 2012 (UTC)
  7. nayayen★talk 10:30, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

Comments

I feel that the existence of Atton's ribbed jacket from KOTOR II should be pointed out at this juncture for reference. Its been around and uncontested for about 4 years. - Cavalier OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 13:20, March 13, 2012 (UTC)

  • Yeah, that too. In a sense, these are just Bioware's way of giving you companion characters with a somewhat unique look from the other characters in-game (at least in SWTOR). There's nothing to indicate that Rand's jacket or Vette's jacket is special though. The uniqueness should be treated as a game mechanic, in my opinion. ~SavageBOB sig 13:23, March 13, 2012 (UTC)

Out of curiosity where does personal armor fall under this proposal? In my opinion, there can be a rather fine line between armor and clothing in some cases, and I would rather we kept our articles on personal armor/personal weapons/personal equipment. The point where we get to clothing is were I would draw the line, I just want to make sure before I vote.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 02:57, March 14, 2012 (UTC)

  • Do you have an example? ~SavageBOB sig 12:49, March 14, 2012 (UTC)
    • Something along the lines of Jurgan Kalta's power suit is what I was thinking of.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 13:09, March 14, 2012 (UTC)
      • Yeah, this TC is not intended to cover custom-designed stuff. Rather, it is for specific examples of mass-produced items. The main question comes down to whether the item is unique because it was specially crafted for the companion character, or if it is unique simply because it is the particular specimen of a particular mass-produced item that the companion character owned. It's possible I'm wrong, and these items are intended to be custom-made items in-universe. But my own inkling is that they are simply game mechanics for generic clothing and armor items. ~SavageBOB sig 13:13, March 14, 2012 (UTC)
        • Okay one more question, if we decide to get rid of these article should we, for example, create an article called Ribbed jacket, since Atton's is just a specific example of one?--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 13:28, March 14, 2012 (UTC)
          • I think that depends: is ribbed in that term a specific kind of jacket, or is it being used like orange in the term "orange jacket"? We wouldn't need an article for the latter. In my opinion, "ribbed" wouldn't be enough to qualify as a separate type, but I'm open to others' opinions. ~SavageBOB sig 12:00, March 20, 2012 (UTC)
            • Sounds like we're getting back into the territory that Forum:TC:Silk belt just covered. jSarek 00:43, March 21, 2012 (UTC)
              • Yikes. Yep, I would have voted to delete that. We don't need articles on material + object or color + object. We need articles on materials, on colors, and on objects. ~SavageBOB sig 00:59, March 21, 2012 (UTC)
                • So, it looks like we need a good set of guidelines for what counts as a viable article. Perhaps we should have a more in-depth CT to draft some sort of policy on this. If we keep having CTs contradicting themselves it will only cause chaos later.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 01:24, March 21, 2012 (UTC)
                  • I agree; some sort of update to the notability policy. ~SavageBOB sig 02:31, March 21, 2012 (UTC)
  • I'm actually not sure why folks are calling for this CT to be closed. The issue of whether we should have an article on "Atton's ribbed jacket" is different from the question of whether we should have one on "ribbed jackets" in general. One is a question of personal possessions, the second is a question of a style of something else. If people think a broader SH or CT is necessary on both of these things, I can accept that, but I just wanted to note that the conversation people are citing as an argument to close this CT pertains to "ribbed jackets" and not "Atton's ribbed jacket," which falls under the purview of this particular CT. ~SavageBOB sig 19:41, March 22, 2012 (UTC)
    • The problem is with what you just said: this is a TC; not a CT. Let's take the core issue here (whether or not we need articles on individual peoples' clothing; and whether or not we need articles on general clothing styles) to CT, where we can decide much more plainly and definitively whether we want both, neither, or one or the other. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 19:52, March 22, 2012 (UTC)
  • I have to agree that these might not need there own article but we defiantly need a policy on this, I have screenshots and info on a fair amount of companion gear and would like to know what to do with it. 23:12, March 25, 2012 (UTC)
    • Um my signature seems to have broken that was Ayrehead02 23:13, March 25, 2012 (UTC)
      • FYI, five tildes (~) omits your name and just leaves a timestamp. It didn't break. Please leave comments in the comments section in the future. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 23:53, March 25, 2012 (UTC)