Forum:TC:Force Body

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This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was rewrite per statements below. Graestan(Talk) 22:22, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Force Body (talk - history - links - logs)

This sounds completely like game mechanics. Some force powers can have their own page (e.g. Force Shield) but some should simply be redirected (like everything to do with Telekinesis. Not sure where this should be merged, but it needs to have a simple redirect. The article tries to separate life energy with force energy, like in the game, but in universe, the force is an energy field created by life. Separating them makes no sense other than by game mechanics. Anyone have any ideas how to merge or rewrite this? I'll give ya some choices to vote on, but i don't have any ideas myself.IthinkIwannaLeiaWaddaUthink? 23:56, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Merge (to what?)

  1. I'd say delete, but then you'd have a redlink on KOTOR II's Force Power Appearances section. Don't know which article we should merge it too, because it is totally game mechanics. IthinkIwannaLeiaWaddaUthink? 00:21, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
    • I just figured out the problem. Force Body isn't really describing a force power, but how its use affects the physical body. This does show up in-universe, as we can see Yoda and others strain when calling greatly upon the force. I think it should be merged with Force powers under Usage and redirect Force Body there. Simply add a statement that says, "The use of force powers could be exhausting on the physical body." The article describes game mechanics, not an actual force power, so the rewrite, no matter how it's worded, is infeasible. IthinkIwannaLeiaWaddaUthink? 16:09, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
  2. Merge and redirect to Force powers#Using Force powers per ITIWL. - Esjs(Talk) 19:20, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Delete

Based on the article as it stands now, it sounds completely like game mechanics only. - JMAS Hey, it's me! 00:11, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Per JMAS. Master JonathanJedi Council Chambers 00:23, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
  1. This may change if Tope gets a response that changes my mind. Chack Jadson (Talk) 00:33, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Rewrite

  1. Per my comments below. Cylka-talk- 01:09, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
  2. Based on Cylka's interpretation below. I trust her judgment of all things KOTOR. Toprawa and Ralltiir 01:14, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
  3. Per my homies. Graestan(Talk) 01:15, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
  4. Partially because I hate when KotOR articles are deleted, and partially because there are not really any other powers like it to redirect to. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 01:33, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
  5. Based on discussion. - JMAS Hey, it's me! 01:38, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
  6. Per Cylka and Toprawa. —Lucius malfoy7 Love 01:39, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
  7. Per Cylka below. JorrelWiki-shrinkableFraajic 01:44, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
  8. Per Cylka. Master JonathanJedi Council Chambers 05:10, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
  9. Grunny (Talk) 05:13, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
  10. Per Cylka. MauserComlink 13:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
  11. Per Cylka. OLIOSTER Sith Emblem 13:23, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
  12. Rewrite on the condition that it is not written in a way to come across solely as game mechanics. — Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 19:49, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
  13. IFYLOFD (You will pay the price for your lack of vision!) 02:58, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
  14. If it could be merged, I'd say merge. However, there is nothing to merge this into. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 03:39, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
  15. I was actually going to rewrite it any ways regardless of whether this TC took place, but since it did, I'll wait. Per Cylka. Cyfiero 05:46, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
  16. Cavalier OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 11:51, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
  17. --Darth tom Imperial Emblem (Imperial Intelligence) 11:17, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
  18. Yeah... that thing. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 23:39, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Keep

Other Comments

  • Can someone who is knowledgeable/an expert on the subject provide a bit more information for what this "Force Body" is and whether or not it's a game mechanic or whatever? The article's description isn't really worth much, and really not enough to make a judgment on. Toprawa and Ralltiir 00:30, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
    • In the game, you basically use Vitality and Force points, instead of just your pool of Force points, to fuel Force powers. I think that this article could be rewritten in such a way as to make it sound less like game mechanics. It could maybe say something to the effect that a Jedi's concentration on their connection to the Force caused them to sacrifice their health/well being. This may not be the most ideal wording, but I think that a rewrite is a feasible option. Cylka-talk- 01:09, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
      • Your first sentence is purely game mechanics. Vitality points and force points are fundamentally game mechanics and not separated in the actual star wars universe. You seem to have a large number of followers master Cylka, but I simply don't see a way of making a force power that is purely a result of the way powerbars are set up in a game into a non game mechanic article. In order to go far enough, you would have to use conjecture. Just because it is an RPG, with detailed descriptions of game mechanics, doesn't mean that those game mechanics get to be in an article. I direct your attention to my comment in the MERGE section. IthinkIwannaLeiaWaddaUthink? 15:53, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
        • It's a bit different from how you may see it. It's not game mechanics because as a Force ability, it is basically substituting your well-being for your Force energy. Think of it like that. I know that using energy itself may decrease your health if extended to a certain degree (and may even cause death), but the ability isn't describing the physical state of a body when this happens. Also, if I remember correctly, it works vice-versa, in which some of the injuries you take is substituted with Force energy and therefore you are damaged less by a certain blow. In any case, perhaps if you actually read the description it would seem more like an actual ability than pure game mechanics. Just because it's in a game doesn't mean it's purely game mechanics. You actually have to think it through thoroughly. Cyfiero 05:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Here's a wild idea. Maybe what we need is an article called life force or life energy. I'm betting we could find plenty of canon support, as myticism of all kinds permeates Star Wars literature. It would have to be a pretty long article to survive a TC purge of its own, but then we could merge Force Body with that article. Enochf 23:25, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
    • There's already an article on Force energy, which I'm hoping to expand later. But, we will absolutely not merge Force body with that article. I'm pretty sure that the Force power isn't merely just game mechanics. Cyfiero 00:01, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
We also have an article on personal Force reservoir. Which is essentially the same article. Cyfiero 00:03, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
  • I think the main problem why people are divided in this is because they don't really know what Force body is, prompting others to see it as game mechanics or as a way to describe the effects of Force usage on the physical body rather than a Force power of its own based solely on the article's content. This might sound a bit wild, but perhaps if they played the game, they would actually see that it's just like any other Force power... Cyfiero 00:09, 1 June 2009 (UTC)