Forum:SH Archive/Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game era

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This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments or questions on this topic should be made in a new Senate Hall page rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record. 1358 (Talk) 20:34, May 9, 2014 (UTC)

There was some discussion earlier about the timeframe when the Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game took place. Due to the recent EduCorps meeting, I have started this discussion so we can determine the era when the game took place. From what I remember playing Star Wars Galaxies, the game occurred after the Battle of Yavin and included events that went up to and included the Battle of Hoth. I was under the impression that the events of the game occurred during the same timeframe.

  • Here is the evidence that the Trading Card Game took place during the Galactic Civil War and around the time of or after the Battle of Yavin:
    • The official SWG site said that the game took place during the Galactic Civil War.
    • Champions of the Force
      • The Champions of the Force (SWGTCG) expansion takes place after the game since the light side campaign involves the escape of Mellichae, who was captured by the players in Star Wars Galaxies.
      • The presence of the Rebel Alliance team in the game indicates that it took place during the Galactic Civil War.
      • An image of Obi-Wan Kenobi as a Force Spirit.
      • A File:Rebel General.jpg|Rebel general who appears to be Crix Madine.
      • Since the Battle of Toprawa starts the Rebellion era, this image of Princess Leia and the Death Star plans would have to occur during the Rebellion era.
      • Luke Skywalker as an X-wing pilot with a lightsaber would have to occur during the Rebellion era.
      • A card of a Rebel sentry mentions events after the Battle of Yavin.
      • The "Infilitrate Rebel Command Base" card mentions the destruction of the first Death Star.
      • The Dark Trooper Project is referenced on the "Imperial Dark Trooper" card.
      • Obi-Wan Kenobi's death is mentioned on the "Obi-Wan Kenobi's friend" card.
      • Jan Dodonna's card mentions his role in the Death Star's destruction.
    • Squadrons over Corellia
      • The Squadrons Over Corellia expansion's dark side campaign mentions Luke Skywalker as the Hero of Yavin.
      • Wedge's card mentions the Battle of Yavin.
      • One card depicts a fragment from the first Death Star.
      • The "Red Five" card mentions Luke Skywalker's destruction of the Death Star.
      • The "Surgical Demolitions" card mentions the destruction of Alderaan.
      • There is a B-wing card, a fighter which was not developed until the Rebellion era.
      • Han Solo's card mentions him as a hero of the Rebel Alliance.
      • The Dark Trooper Project is referenced on the "Exogen-class Dark Trooper" card.
      • "Vader's TIE Advanced" card mentions the Battle of Yavin.
      • The "Scandal" card mentions D'Wopp and Valarian's wedding which occurred slightly before Episode IV.
      • Oola's card references her time at Jabba's palace, which still occurs during the Rebellion era, but at a point well after the Battle of Yavin.
    • Galactic Hunters
    • Agents of Deception
      • The campaigns for Agents of Deception have Lando Calrissian as Baron Administrator of Cloud City and Han Solo working for the Rebel Alliance.
      • The "Protective Armor" card references the Imperials exploration of the forest moon of Endor.
      • The "Elite Dark Trooper" card references the Dark Trooper Project.
      • The U-3PO card pictures the fight onboard the Tantive IV.
    • The Shadow Syndicate
      • In the campaigns for The Shadow Syndicate, Dash Rendar is working for the Rebels and Xizor has placed a bounty on Luke Skywalker.
      • The Luke Skywalker card in the set has him with his second lightsaber and mentions him testing it in combat.
      • The "Tarkin Doctrine" card has an image of the first Death Star fully completed.
      • The "Stalker" card mentions Death Squadron, which was founded after the Battle of Yavin.
    • The Nightsister's Revenge
      • The campaigns of The Nightsister's Revenge are set after the Battle of Yavin and over a year before the Battle of Hoth.
      • Many of the cards in the set mention that the Rebels are on Noth or show Rebels or Imperials fighting on an icy planet.
    • Threat of the Conqueror
      • In the dark side campaign for Threat of the Conqueror, Sarkli is serving with the Galactic Empire and Luke Skywalker is described as the Hero of Yavin.
      • The light side campaign mentions the Battle of Yavin and featured Sarkli with the Empire.
      • Luke Skywalker's card mentions him as a Jedi with the Rebel Alliance.
      • Ponda Baba's card shows him with one arm
    • The Price of Victory
      • The campaigns for The Price of Victory involve the events surrounding the Battle of Hoth.
      • The "Full of Suprises" card shows Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker fighting on Bespin.
      • Several cards reference or picture the events on Dagobah from Episode V.
      • Many cards picture or reference the Battle of Hoth and the surrounding events of the battle.
  • Here is evidence that on first glance makes the era seem ambiguous (I have provided reasoning for some saying why I don't think they are necessarily in another era.):
    • Many cards picture B1 battle droids and other Clone Wars-era droids. (However, Star Wars Galaxies included many droid opponents that were originally from the Clone Wars.)
    • Exar Kun appears on a card in the Galactic Hunters set, but he is described as awakening after nearly four thousand years. (Star Wars Galaxies featured an appearance of his Force spirit.)
    • In Galactic Hunters, Jodo Kast's card mentions him impersonating Boba Fett and being killed, which didn't happen until after Boba Fett fell into the Sarlacc pit.
    • In Agents of Deception, there is an "Order 66" card, but there is not indication of the era from the image.
    • In Agents of Deception, Mara Jade's card mentions her as a smuggler, which didn't happen until after the Emperor died.
    • The Battlemind card appears to picture a battle between a Jedi and battle droids with a Lucrehulk-class Core Ship in the background. However, there is no indication of the era.
    • In The Shadow Syndicate there is a card of Dathcha who was one of the Jawas killed by stormtroopers in Episode IV. (While this would be before the Battle of Yavin, the card could still take place in the Rebellion era.)

Here's everything that I was able to find that would help with era placement, now please discuss what we should do about era placement below.

  • If I missed anything important, please add a bullet to this section:--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 04:34, September 2, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

From what I can see the time placement for characters, items, and events that have no specific timeline placement can be placed in the Rebellion era, but without any mention of being before or after the Battle of Yavin. I feel that the few problematic elements should be treated as inconsistencies.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 04:34, September 2, 2013 (UTC)

The biggest spanner in a theory is a Wall of Light, an image definitely showing a TOTJ event, which was even reused in the Galactic Timeline series later. The answer is that the card images were just that... card images. They could depict events from years before or after 1 ABY when the rest of the Galaxies was set. For the most part it can be roughly attributed to Rebellion era, but examples such as Datcha and neutral smuggler Mara really don't fit in, so it'd be wrong to assume the same for others.

The campaign scenarios themselves definitely happen at a set period of time though, not necessarily the same time as the rest of cards in the set. Galactic Hunters is explicitly set after the Squadrons over Corellia campaign and for the most part the others form a straight progression, with Champions of the Force happening at the same time as SWG proper, The Nightsister's Revenge being explicitly 2 ABY and The Price of Victory taking place entirely during Episode 5. My biggest problem was always The Shadow Syndicate campaign - it just has too many ties to the Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire, it just HAS to happen during that time to make sense. The game itself doesn't seem to get that point though (Galaxies wasn't good on continuity in the first place), so I had to forcefully take it out of the context and place after every other campaign, up to The Price of Victory. It just falls apart logically otherwise.
And just to salt the wound, I don't think EC has much to worry in the first place. Proper status articles like Conqueror (superlaser) or Kath Scarlet can be easily dated by text references alone. Articles like Unidentified Cerean Jedi archaeologist, Unidentified Chiss Dark Jedi, Unidentified Chiss Jedi (Force jump) however were never intended to depict unique characters in the first place. I talked about it with both artists and game designers back in 2009 when the game was still running and articles like Unidentified Human (Center of Being) first started to pop up. It was more like an idea of illustrating force powers and such, when the artists received notes and instructions from Art Directors on what the card must depict, then going wild with creativity. Nobody expected them to depict actual characters in the first place. LOST-Malachi (talk) 05:05, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
What about articles like Frex Junara? Even if you discount all of the unidentified articles, there are still some that are without a doubt fully identified characters and items.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 13:48, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
You know my opinion on this - he's different, because he's identified in the card's lore which was written by game designers and approved by LFL, same case with others that were given proper name. Others have no such excuse: for example the only reason Unidentified Jedi hermit exists at all is because I was trying to abuse WP:POINT by making minor articles for every character ever depicted on a card. Most people have no access to the game, so they only made articles like Unidentified Dark Jedi (Cho sun) and Unidentified Dark Jedi (Force drain) based on the images someone else has already uploaded on the wiki for proper articles. If, however, you go through every illustration made for the game (2,000 of them!) and assume everyone not named directly is a new unique and separate unidentified character, then - oh, boy! - you end up with at least 1,000 minor useless articles, if not more. I was trying to illustrate the absurdity of allowing such articles to exist in the first place, but got bored less than 100 articles in and ,frankly, after seeing the horror that is Unidentified snow planet I regret doing that at all. Also, I am fully aware I took the discussion and used it to illustrate the point on the unrelated issue that concerns me, thank you very much. LOST-Malachi (talk) 15:20, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
  • Mauser, please keep the discussion of this forum and all forums focused on their intended topic. You seem to find a way at every opportunity to turn a forum discussion into another off-topic rant about articles you think are not notable and shouldn't exist. This is getting to the point that it's simply becoming disruptive. That has nothing to do with the purpose of this forum. The purpose of this forum is to discuss what era(s) we should apply to this trading card game. If you can't keep your discussion from veering off, then perhaps you should consider staying out of the discussion. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 19:02, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
    • I already stated the facts. The illustrations range from at least shortly before the Battle of Yavin (Rise of the Empire era) to sometime after the Battle of Endor (New Republic era), not to mention Clone Wars and TOTJ elements throughout, so assuming Rebellion era by default is highly inaccurate. For example Exar Kun was a ghost both in Galaxies and Jedi Academy trilogy, but SWGTCG card shows him in physical form - and guess what image is in his infobox now. As for notability - I started this thing in the first place, albeit indirectly, so I think it is relevant to the discussion. I remember when things like that Unidentified Human (Center of Being) first started to appear back in 2009. It seemed like an oddity back then, I was more concerned about Groceries and things like that. If I may quote the person who originally started the trend (don't worry, WP:NPA and all that), "I really was just bored and didnt see the harm in it... it really doesnt matter to me". And because they were allowed to remain back then, other users saw it as acceptable practice and started making "unidentified" articles for other images already uploaded (but not unused ones! nobody ever bothered to check for individuals on images that weren't already on the wiki). And then suddenly they were promoted as status articles and the deal was set in stone. The problem is, I honestly do not get it - why would you want articles for every one of those guys when they contain no information whatsoever and are nothing but ballast. Not just the era symbol, but the very existence of all those articles comes down to failing to stop a frivolous initiative of one user years ago, which is why I questioned the article's accuracy in the first place and why I find it relevant. LOST-Malachi (talk) 21:26, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
      • I'm not reading another rant of yours, Mauser, because it's too long, and I don't care. Do not derail this discussion with your off-topic ranting about article notability. If you have something to contribute to this discussion specifically related to how eras apply to this card game, then by all means contribute. Otherwise, drop the notability discussion. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 21:48, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
  • The preceding line of discussion is being contained in the App Hide template for its off-topic nature so as not to disrupt further legitimate discussion relating to the purpose of this thread. Please post relevant responses below from this point forward. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 22:08, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
  • I've been trying to find an article which states it without luck but during the time that the Battle of Echo Base was a new addition to SWG, the developers said that it did not technically further the timeline of SWG and was just meant to be a fun "Star Warsy" moment for players to experience. I don't know how relevant this is but just thought I would mention it. Gal-icon OLIOSTER (talk) 13:37, September 3, 2013 (UTC)