Forums > Senate Hall archive > SH Archive/Merging "Earth" articles
This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments or questions on this topic should be made in a new Senate Hall page rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record. 1358 (Talk) 20:34, May 9, 2014 (UTC)
It used to be that we could confidently say that Earth had no place in Star Wars. However, the number of non-canon storylines including Earth has slowly increased, leading us to have multiple articles on Earth (all marked as non-canon or an easter egg, luckily):
- Earth (Star Tours) and Earth system from Star Tours: The Adventures Continue
- Urthha, from Monsters and Aliens from George Lucas
- Indiana Jones's homeworld and Indiana Jones's system
- That article you — yes, you in the back with the laptop — were about to write about the President of the United States's homeworld.
- List of references to Earth in Star Wars, which used to be my user subpage back in the dawn of Wookieepedia when we edited articles with stone knives and bearskins, and is now the sort of article Wookieepedia doesn't write much anymore.
I suggest that all the IU articles on Earth be merged into one, in-universe article, with the various sections marked as non-canon or as ambiguously canon. Much of the "Earth references" content would either be adapted to the main part of the article or put into the "Behind the Scenes" section. The article in its current form could be put back into my user subpage, with [[List of references to Earth in Star Wars]] left as a redirect to Earth.
What do the rest of you think? —Silly Dan (talk) 23:31, June 12, 2013 (UTC)
- Merge them. Before it gets out of hand. But leave the President of the United States one separate. He's not a planet. Let's just merge the actual planet pages on Earth. --151.231.22.242 22:23, June 14, 2013 (UTC)
- Oh no, I wouldn't merge that. Likewise, the two "Earth system" articles would be merged, but not with the planet articles. —Silly Dan (talk) 23:33, June 14, 2013 (UTC)
- I would be hesitant to even merge the system articles. Can we say without doubt that the system (and planet) that Indiana Jones inhabited was the "Earth system"/Earth? -- Riffsyphon1024 06:35, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
- I think that would fall under the same principal as our duck test for Humans. By common sense, it is Earth, and going out of our way with an "unidentified planet" style because it is never explicitly stated is probably unnecessary (especially for a non-canon source). Cheers, grunny@wookieepedia:~$ 07:03, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
- Note also that the Star Tours Earth picture is an adaptation of the NASA Blue Marble 2002 picture. Baja California, for example, is distinctly visible in that picture and in "Into the Great Unknown." —Silly Dan (talk) 13:51, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
- If you look at the Indiana Jone's system, you can also see the planets Jupiter, Saturn, and maybe Mars. That, in addition to the fact that his Earth looks exactly like our Earth (with a moon at that), should be enough to show that it's not a separate thing. StarsiderSWG (talk) 19:55, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
- Note also that the Star Tours Earth picture is an adaptation of the NASA Blue Marble 2002 picture. Baja California, for example, is distinctly visible in that picture and in "Into the Great Unknown." —Silly Dan (talk) 13:51, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
- I think that would fall under the same principal as our duck test for Humans. By common sense, it is Earth, and going out of our way with an "unidentified planet" style because it is never explicitly stated is probably unnecessary (especially for a non-canon source). Cheers, grunny@wookieepedia:~$ 07:03, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
- I would be hesitant to even merge the system articles. Can we say without doubt that the system (and planet) that Indiana Jones inhabited was the "Earth system"/Earth? -- Riffsyphon1024 06:35, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
- Oh no, I wouldn't merge that. Likewise, the two "Earth system" articles would be merged, but not with the planet articles. —Silly Dan (talk) 23:33, June 14, 2013 (UTC)
- So, are we merging them? I'll be trying to write up something. By the way, what should we do about Earth system? We haven't discussed that article. --LelalMekha (talk) 09:08, July 17, 2013 (UTC)
- I would suggest making one article for Earth (including Star Tours Earth, Indiana Jones' Earth, the President's Earth, and "Urthha") accompanied by a merged Earth system article drawing mostly on Star Tours and the Indiana Jones crossover. —Silly Dan (talk) 13:25, July 17, 2013 (UTC)
- I'll give it a try, then. But I'm having trouble figuring out how to include the information from Into the Great Unknown since it is resolutely non-canon, while Star Tours material is more ambiguous. --LelalMekha (talk) 13:34, July 17, 2013 (UTC)
- Put {{Easteregg}} on top of the article as a whole, and put {{Noncanonstart}}and {{Noncanonend}} around the parts about Indiana Jones, Barack Obama, and blenders. Then I can put the "List of Earth references" stuff into the BTS. —Silly Dan (talk) 13:53, July 17, 2013 (UTC)
- Urthha seems to be more of a "wink-wink" pun, and not necessarily our Earth. Adamwankenobi (talk) 13:38, July 17, 2013 (UTC)
- On the other hand, 98% of readers would instantly realize that it's supposed to be Earth. I don't see the point in splitting them. —Silly Dan (talk) 13:53, July 17, 2013 (UTC)
- Can't comment on the Earth Star Tours planet itself or the one from Into the Great Unknown/that Death Star blog post (although, lets be honest, if, and I do mean if, since its obviously not the case, Great Unknown's earth was canon, that would imply that the events of the Star Wars films occurred within the 1800s, maybe late 1700s (Indiana Jones commented on visiting Atlantis, which he did in Fate of Atlantis, of which the game stated it took place on August 31st, 1939, the eve of World War II, which means he visited the location in Great Unknown either in late 1939 or sometime before December 7, 1941 (since by that point he served in WWII as stated in Crystal Skull. Since the comic explicitly stated that the Millennium Falcon's crash occurred 126 years prior to the events of Jones' discovery, and that the Falcon's discovery, by Star Wars dating, occurred after 4 ABY due to Han recognizing Endor's ecology on the planet (something he could have only done had he been to Endor, and he had been to Endor during the Battle of Endor in 4 ABY), that means that it occurred within 1813-1815), but I think we should keep the Indiana Jones's system and the Earth System separate for now. Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn have yet to actually appear in the Star Tours's Earth System, meaning their only appearance (even if unnamed) is non-canon, and thus merging the two articles would make their inclusion in the Star Tours infobox extremely inappropriate. We can't insert two infoboxes for the different appearances either, AFAIK. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 09:59, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
- This last is not a problem: Mars etc. can stay out of the infobox and just get mentioned in the appropriate section of the text. As for the timeline problems, of course "Into the Great Unknown" seems to put the original trilogy in the 1800s while Star Tours and the Star Wars blog would have it in the 21st century. But there are instances of canonical sources contradicting each other too, and they don't result in splitting articles which are obviously on the same subject. —Silly Dan (talk) 14:20, August 17, 2013 (UTC)
- Okay, although the infobox issue is still a problem, as the Indiana Jones's system article does have one (should we have two infoboxes, one for the canon version and one for the non-canon version or not is what I'm asking here). At least with Indiana Jones's homeworld, it did not have an infobox, so we didn't have to worry too much about that. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 22:13, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
- Wookieepedia:Manual of Style and Wookieepedia:Layout Guide don't explicitly forbid putting non-canon information in the infobox with a {{C|Non-canon}} note. Though I haven't seen it generally done, maybe that's a solution for odd cases like this? Otherwise, you could just leave the non-canon information out. —Silly Dan (talk) 14:35, August 20, 2013 (UTC)
- Okay, although the infobox issue is still a problem, as the Indiana Jones's system article does have one (should we have two infoboxes, one for the canon version and one for the non-canon version or not is what I'm asking here). At least with Indiana Jones's homeworld, it did not have an infobox, so we didn't have to worry too much about that. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 22:13, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
- This last is not a problem: Mars etc. can stay out of the infobox and just get mentioned in the appropriate section of the text. As for the timeline problems, of course "Into the Great Unknown" seems to put the original trilogy in the 1800s while Star Tours and the Star Wars blog would have it in the 21st century. But there are instances of canonical sources contradicting each other too, and they don't result in splitting articles which are obviously on the same subject. —Silly Dan (talk) 14:20, August 17, 2013 (UTC)
- Can't comment on the Earth Star Tours planet itself or the one from Into the Great Unknown/that Death Star blog post (although, lets be honest, if, and I do mean if, since its obviously not the case, Great Unknown's earth was canon, that would imply that the events of the Star Wars films occurred within the 1800s, maybe late 1700s (Indiana Jones commented on visiting Atlantis, which he did in Fate of Atlantis, of which the game stated it took place on August 31st, 1939, the eve of World War II, which means he visited the location in Great Unknown either in late 1939 or sometime before December 7, 1941 (since by that point he served in WWII as stated in Crystal Skull. Since the comic explicitly stated that the Millennium Falcon's crash occurred 126 years prior to the events of Jones' discovery, and that the Falcon's discovery, by Star Wars dating, occurred after 4 ABY due to Han recognizing Endor's ecology on the planet (something he could have only done had he been to Endor, and he had been to Endor during the Battle of Endor in 4 ABY), that means that it occurred within 1813-1815), but I think we should keep the Indiana Jones's system and the Earth System separate for now. Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn have yet to actually appear in the Star Tours's Earth System, meaning their only appearance (even if unnamed) is non-canon, and thus merging the two articles would make their inclusion in the Star Tours infobox extremely inappropriate. We can't insert two infoboxes for the different appearances either, AFAIK. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 09:59, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
- On the other hand, 98% of readers would instantly realize that it's supposed to be Earth. I don't see the point in splitting them. —Silly Dan (talk) 13:53, July 17, 2013 (UTC)
- I'll give it a try, then. But I'm having trouble figuring out how to include the information from Into the Great Unknown since it is resolutely non-canon, while Star Tours material is more ambiguous. --LelalMekha (talk) 13:34, July 17, 2013 (UTC)
- I would suggest making one article for Earth (including Star Tours Earth, Indiana Jones' Earth, the President's Earth, and "Urthha") accompanied by a merged Earth system article drawing mostly on Star Tours and the Indiana Jones crossover. —Silly Dan (talk) 13:25, July 17, 2013 (UTC)
- Should it not have been moved to something less specific than "(Star Tours)"? Like "Earth (planet)"? Into the Great Unknown does precede it after all. Vetinari(Appointment) 22:44, August 24, 2013 (UTC)