This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments or questions on this topic should be made in a new Senate Hall page rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record. Toprawa and Ralltiir 07:54, February 25, 2012 (UTC)
We're probably going to get official word on this soon (at least, I hope so), but in the meantime we're going to have to figure out what to do with the Slaves of the Republic issue that's bearing down on The Clone Wars: Season Four. Three upcoming episodes—"Kidnapped," "Slaves of the Republic," and "Escape from Kadavo"—are clearly an adaptation of the 2008 Slaves of the Republic story arc from The Clone Wars comic series. While these episodes are an adaptation, they're not an exact one—the notable difference being the utilization of the new character models for Anakin, Obi-Wan, Ahsoka, and Rex, which definitely has no correlation with the comic arc's utilization of the pre–Season Three models. All four of these characters were involved with the original comic story, and since it just wouldn't be prudent for us to assume that they go through the same story twice now with Season Four, we have to find a way to respect the new television series episodes without simply deleting the comic material off the face of Wookieepedia.
I'm proposing that we treat this Season Four story arc as canon and that we assume that since the comics have been superseded by the TV series, we no longer regard the comics as canon. That would mean placing the {{Ret}} tag on all appearances related to the previous comic arc, and that also means that we would have to explain the conflict in each affected article's Bts, to where we can simply move the comic material under the "Non-canon history" heading—that way, like for Even Piell, we can still present the original comic story, just not as canon.
This will affect a number of current status articles, including the Battle of Kiros, Battle of Kadavo, and Zygerrian, so I want to make sure that others involved agree with this proposal before we change any of the major articles in any way. If anyone has any other suggestions, please provide them.
I'm personally interested to see what (if anything) they change for the TV series, but I'm suggesting this resolution in the hopes that we will be able to decide on one so that we can incorporate the new material without consequence. CC7567 (talk) 08:27, November 19, 2011 (UTC)
- That sounds like the best course of action, but I would avoid making any such moves until we receive official word from Chee or SW.com. Perhaps they'll be meshing the two versions in some way. Barring official word, we should wait until the first of the episodes airs. After that, television always takes precedence (unfortunately). Darth Trayus(Trayus Academy) 08:42, November 19, 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see why we need to treat the comic as non-canon. We don't treat the novel or comic adaptations of the films as non-canon, even though they have discarded elements like Luke flying Blue 5 or Yoda being blue instead of green. We just note where and how they differ from the main version and move on. jSarek 10:57, November 19, 2011 (UTC)
- jSarek has a point. Although the episodes will definitely take precedence over the comics, we don't really have any authority to declare things non-canon. In the best case scenario, all we (well, I) will have to do is change the referencing from the comics to the episodes, swap the images with the new ones from the show, and add a Bts note regarding the differences in portrayal—which seem to be really minor at this point—between the two sources. If anything, we can add some kind of advisory template at the top, but if all the differences will be limited to costume changes, as they seem to be now, I'm not sure one will be really needed. Of course, TCW has never been so kind to us as to not screw anything up, but who knows, maybe this time they'll try really hard. In any case, I think it's too early to tell and we should wait and see the actual episodes. Once they've aired, I'm almost certain we will have some kind of official word from Chee or someone else. In the worst case scenario, if TCW really screws things up and there will be major changes between the show and the comic series—I mean, really major, not just costume changes—and we will not have any official word, then CC's idea seems like a nice backup plan to me. QuiGonJinn
(Talk) 11:46, November 19, 2011 (UTC)
- Sounds fine to me. Though do you guys agree with moving Slaves of the Republic down in the current chronology of the series, given the costume changes? CC7567 (talk) 19:14, November 19, 2011 (UTC)
- Per Trayus, JSarek, and Jinn. I think we should wait until we see how they screw it up this time. As for the chronology, I personally don't see any problems with moving it right now.--Cal Jedi
(Personal Comm Channel) 03:17, November 20, 2011 (UTC)
- Per those above. However, maybe Xerius Ugg will be non-canon, but this should be discussed after this part of the series is over. Clone Commander Lee Talk 12:13, November 25, 2011 (UTC)
- Per Trayus, JSarek, and Jinn. I think we should wait until we see how they screw it up this time. As for the chronology, I personally don't see any problems with moving it right now.--Cal Jedi
- Sounds fine to me. Though do you guys agree with moving Slaves of the Republic down in the current chronology of the series, given the costume changes? CC7567 (talk) 19:14, November 19, 2011 (UTC)
- jSarek has a point. Although the episodes will definitely take precedence over the comics, we don't really have any authority to declare things non-canon. In the best case scenario, all we (well, I) will have to do is change the referencing from the comics to the episodes, swap the images with the new ones from the show, and add a Bts note regarding the differences in portrayal—which seem to be really minor at this point—between the two sources. If anything, we can add some kind of advisory template at the top, but if all the differences will be limited to costume changes, as they seem to be now, I'm not sure one will be really needed. Of course, TCW has never been so kind to us as to not screw anything up, but who knows, maybe this time they'll try really hard. In any case, I think it's too early to tell and we should wait and see the actual episodes. Once they've aired, I'm almost certain we will have some kind of official word from Chee or someone else. In the worst case scenario, if TCW really screws things up and there will be major changes between the show and the comic series—I mean, really major, not just costume changes—and we will not have any official word, then CC's idea seems like a nice backup plan to me. QuiGonJinn
- I don't see why we need to treat the comic as non-canon. We don't treat the novel or comic adaptations of the films as non-canon, even though they have discarded elements like Luke flying Blue 5 or Yoda being blue instead of green. We just note where and how they differ from the main version and move on. jSarek 10:57, November 19, 2011 (UTC)
It looks for now like Ugg won't in fact be included in the Season Four adaptation, so I've created {{TCWSlavesAdapt}} for potential use; we can always delete it if it turns out to be unnecessary. It still doesn't seem like we can slap {{Ret}} or non-canonicity onto the original comics, even for Ugg, without official word, so we'd best just put the TCWSlavesAdapt advisory template on articles like those until we (hopefully) get clarification. (I personally wouldn't mind getting rid of Ugg from official continuity…he was such a terrible character.) On a side note, it does appear like Miraj Scintel will be included in the TV series' adaptation, though we know that characters like Ventress won't be around anymore, at least not in her original role as Dooku's apprentice. CC7567 (talk) 00:50, November 26, 2011 (UTC)
- Oh TCW, how I hate thee... Seriously, how could they fuck up so hard with the Zygerrians' appearance? Now I have to do so much rewriting with the Zygerrian article. It's like they're doing this on purpose, just to piss us off. UGGH! QuiGonJinn (Talk) 12:21, November 26, 2011 (UTC)
- It's TCW man. :( Canon steam roller extraordinaire. JangFett (Talk) 17:07, December 3, 2011 (UTC)
- Listen, let's just be patient and wait for the remaining two episodes to be out. Then we can sort out the canons and non-canons. Although we can all agree it win't be exactly like the comics as Asajj is helping Dooku. Frankly, I feel we'll have to regard the comic adaption as non-canon.--Darth Q the first
- I don't think the appearance of the Zygerrians in the TV adaptation makes any other depiction of them non canon. The only real difference is the lack of the red hair. Like someone else pointed out, its not up to us to decide whats non canon. DjMack 17:27, December 3, 2011 (UTC)
- I agree -- they look different but not supremely so, no more different than The Clone Wars version of Neimoidians and the real thing from the film. At this point, I'd still consider the old appearance canon (since nothing's told us it isn't) and chalk it up to phenotypic variations within the species. ~Savage
16:17, December 4, 2011 (UTC)
- I don't know, but red-haired jagged humanoids and grey-haired furries look pretty different to me. At this point, saying that they are just different subspecies is speculation until confirmed by the powers that be. Chee has expressed this theory in a Facebook post, but he wasn't definite. The best option, I think, would be to rewrite the "Biology and appearance" section in compliance with the new look and move all the previous stuff from there to the Bts. It sucks, but it's not our fault. QuiGonJinn (Talk) 16:32, December 4, 2011 (UTC)
- It's not speculation to say that a canon source is still canon, and I agree that assuming subspecies would be speculation. But saying some looked like this, while others looked like this would not be speculation. But I think your suggestion would be OK too. I imagine we'll see a retcon along Mr. Chee's suggestions at some point via peripheral material. ~Savage 16:58, December 4, 2011 (UTC)
- It's not speculation to say that a canon source is still canon, and I agree that assuming subspecies would be speculation. But saying some looked like this, while others looked like this would not be speculation. But I think your suggestion would be OK too. I imagine we'll see a retcon along Mr. Chee's suggestions at some point via peripheral material. ~Savage
- I don't know, but red-haired jagged humanoids and grey-haired furries look pretty different to me. At this point, saying that they are just different subspecies is speculation until confirmed by the powers that be. Chee has expressed this theory in a Facebook post, but he wasn't definite. The best option, I think, would be to rewrite the "Biology and appearance" section in compliance with the new look and move all the previous stuff from there to the Bts. It sucks, but it's not our fault. QuiGonJinn
- I agree -- they look different but not supremely so, no more different than The Clone Wars version of Neimoidians and the real thing from the film. At this point, I'd still consider the old appearance canon (since nothing's told us it isn't) and chalk it up to phenotypic variations within the species. ~Savage
- I don't think the appearance of the Zygerrians in the TV adaptation makes any other depiction of them non canon. The only real difference is the lack of the red hair. Like someone else pointed out, its not up to us to decide whats non canon. DjMack 17:27, December 3, 2011 (UTC)
