This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments or questions on this topic should be made in a new Senate Hall page rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record. Toprawa and Ralltiir 07:42, February 25, 2012 (UTC)
Hey everyone,
JSarek recently pointed out to me a comment made by Leland Chee in this blog entry back in 2006:
Are deleted scenes considered G-level? Yes, unless they conflict with something else seen in the films or if the reasoning behind deleting the scene keeps it from being continuity. [ADDENDUM: this applies only to deleted scenes publicly released]
I asked him on facebook specifically about all of the new deleted scenes made available on the blu-rays, but he doesn't seem to respond to facebook queries very often. If he hasn't responded after, say, a week, should we assume that this is still the practice? If he hasn't said anything to indicate that it isn't still practice, it seems to me that we should indeed assume it is.
If this is the case, we'll have to move some "Behind the scenes" info into the in-universe body of a buncha articles, including some Featured Articles such as Tiaan Jerjerrod and, I believe, Wampa, as well as a current FAN of mine, Blount. All of this would fall under WP:CANON --- we consider "All comments from Leland Chee or other VIPs regarding the content of the Holocron continuity database or official Lucasfilm decrees" to be canonical.
Characters such as Unidentified Mon Calamari pilot would still require the {{Cut}} template, I think, as his deleted scenes are just the director feeding him lines, including humorous ones like "Fried Calamari tonight!"
Anyway, please let me know your thoughts on this. I'd like to get some sort of consensus one way or the other. Cheers. Menkooroo 16:29, October 1, 2011 (UTC)
- I am totally in favor of this, and I don't see the need to exclude the drooling Calamari either. LucasAir should get an article. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 18:08, October 1, 2011 (UTC)
- I knew you would try to get this done, Culator. :P About the Blu-ray scenes though, they are added to the disc un-finished. Meaning, for the "Raid on the Droid Control Ship" scene, it just shows a bunch of actors standing around in a blue colored studio swinging around sticks! Can this really be considered canon? This scene is probably a bad example since it already conflicts with the movie, but the other scenes (Cultor's drooling Calamari for example) don't seem to be very reliable. The deleted scenes that have been released previously, (DVD releases particularly) have been completed and look like they could be added right into the movie. The Blu-ray scenes do not. The deleted scenes for Blu-ray seem to be more of a way to show fans the inner workings of making a movie rather than showing the scenes that we missed out on. If you're going to make the "Lost Rebel Pilots" (including the drooling Calamari) canon, then according to that reason, it seems like we should make the guy that was talking to them (who was telling them what to say for that scene) canon. That doesn't seem right that he should be canon, so I don't see why these other scenes should be canon. In my opinion, we will see most of these scenes added to the movies when they come out in 3D. In that case, the scenes which are added are definitely canon, and the scenes which are not, are definitely non-canon. I suggest that we just wait a couple of months and see what happens in TPM when it comes out in theatres.--Cal Jedi
(Personal Comm Channel) 00:01, October 3, 2011 (UTC)
- I wasn't aware that the "deleted scenes" from the Blu-Rays included scenes they were clearly planning to shoehorn in for the release with modern acting. In cases where the technology involved makes no sense for 1999, let alone 1977, we should make an exception. We should only take original deleted scenes as canon (should we be forced to go with this and I still say it's stupid). NaruHina Talk
03:07, October 3, 2011 (UTC) - I think the best way to jive un-produced scenes with Leland's statement would be to assume that the existence of the characters and situations are canon, but not necessarily the way that the scenes play out, as they're not really scenes at all but just spoken lines that could have potentially later been edited into the middle of the Battle of Endor. With Blount in the Falcon's quad turret, though, it's much closer to a finished, if un-truncated, scene, so it seems like a different situation. Thoughts? Menkooroo 15:15, October 3, 2011 (UTC)
- Chee's response to someone else on July 6: "Potentially yes, but not always, unless its specifically reinserted into the film like Jabba in ANH and the extended Podracer scenes in the TPM DVD." Note he said potentially. I would believe that reinserted means actually part of the runtime, and not just accessible in deleted scenes. So if I am correctly interpreting his statement, Chee has not confirmed or denied deleted scenes being canon, unless they get added to the final film. Hanzo Hasashi 21:58, October 3, 2011 (UTC)
- Precisely my point about just waiting and seeing what happens in TPM.--Cal Jedi (Personal Comm Channel) 22:06, October 3, 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for the info, Hanzo. I was't aware of that. Here's the link if anyone wants to check it out for themselves. "Potentially, but not always" seems vague enough to throw my earlier statements in the trash. Vague enough that we shouldn't assume deleted scenes to be canon unless Chee specifically tells us they are. In which case Jerjerrod, Blount, and Wampa should be left alone, I guess. Menkooroo 03:38, October 4, 2011 (UTC)
- Indeed... (WOO-HOO!) NaruHina Talk
16:41, October 4, 2011 (UTC)
- They can be canon, like the scene at Tosche Station; or non-canon, like the death scene of General Veers and Hobbie. It depends on the scene. Lucas makes that decision. Leland Chee explains whether they are canon or not, if he knows. The ones that are canon are G-level. 173.51.117.61 19:53, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- That scene is canon; it just happens that both Hobbie and Veers survived it. jSarek 06:55, October 11, 2011 (UTC)
- So Hobbie did crash into General Veers' AT-AT but instead of being killed they were only wounded. 173.51.117.61 07:04, October 11, 2011 (UTC)
- Exactly. Hobbie wound up in bacta yet again, while Veers lost his legs and, refusing cybernetics, wound up in a hoverchair. jSarek 11:13, October 12, 2011 (UTC)
- So Hobbie did crash into General Veers' AT-AT but instead of being killed they were only wounded. 173.51.117.61 07:04, October 11, 2011 (UTC)
- That scene is canon; it just happens that both Hobbie and Veers survived it. jSarek 06:55, October 11, 2011 (UTC)
- They can be canon, like the scene at Tosche Station; or non-canon, like the death scene of General Veers and Hobbie. It depends on the scene. Lucas makes that decision. Leland Chee explains whether they are canon or not, if he knows. The ones that are canon are G-level. 173.51.117.61 19:53, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- Indeed... (WOO-HOO!) NaruHina Talk
- Precisely my point about just waiting and seeing what happens in TPM.--Cal Jedi
- Chee's response to someone else on July 6: "Potentially yes, but not always, unless its specifically reinserted into the film like Jabba in ANH and the extended Podracer scenes in the TPM DVD." Note he said potentially. I would believe that reinserted means actually part of the runtime, and not just accessible in deleted scenes. So if I am correctly interpreting his statement, Chee has not confirmed or denied deleted scenes being canon, unless they get added to the final film. Hanzo Hasashi 21:58, October 3, 2011 (UTC)
- I wasn't aware that the "deleted scenes" from the Blu-Rays included scenes they were clearly planning to shoehorn in for the release with modern acting. In cases where the technology involved makes no sense for 1999, let alone 1977, we should make an exception. We should only take original deleted scenes as canon (should we be forced to go with this and I still say it's stupid). NaruHina Talk
- I knew you would try to get this done, Culator. :P About the Blu-ray scenes though, they are added to the disc un-finished. Meaning, for the "Raid on the Droid Control Ship" scene, it just shows a bunch of actors standing around in a blue colored studio swinging around sticks! Can this really be considered canon? This scene is probably a bad example since it already conflicts with the movie, but the other scenes (Cultor's drooling Calamari for example) don't seem to be very reliable. The deleted scenes that have been released previously, (DVD releases particularly) have been completed and look like they could be added right into the movie. The Blu-ray scenes do not. The deleted scenes for Blu-ray seem to be more of a way to show fans the inner workings of making a movie rather than showing the scenes that we missed out on. If you're going to make the "Lost Rebel Pilots" (including the drooling Calamari) canon, then according to that reason, it seems like we should make the guy that was talking to them (who was telling them what to say for that scene) canon. That doesn't seem right that he should be canon, so I don't see why these other scenes should be canon. In my opinion, we will see most of these scenes added to the movies when they come out in 3D. In that case, the scenes which are added are definitely canon, and the scenes which are not, are definitely non-canon. I suggest that we just wait a couple of months and see what happens in TPM when it comes out in theatres.--Cal Jedi
