This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made in the Senate Hall or new Consensus Track pages rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record. jSarek 05:09, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Many of you may be aware of "the official podcast of TheForce.Net", the Force-Cast. I've been listening to their podcast from the beginning, but have been very behind lately and have just begun to catch up. On their show, they have an "EU Character of the Week" segment in which the co-host, Pete, gives a biography of an EU character. The segment was recently split off into it's own "microcast."
Now, in listening to these segments, I would notice little things that would cause be to believe that they might be using Wookieepedia as part of their research for their bios. But as I became more and more suspicious, I decided to pull up a character's article to compare it with their info. That character was Koffi Arana, and lo and behold, the host was actually reading from our article, paraphrasing some parts while simply reading others verbatim. I also compared another character from that same episode, Bultar Swan, and found pretty much the same thing. I've since reviewed a few others, like Wedge Antilles, A'Sharad Hett, and Oola, and while the paraphrasing is better, there are still enough of the same words to show that it is obviously our work.
I still have a few episodes left before I will be all caught up on their show, but so far, not once have I heard them mention the name "Wookieepedia," despite using our content week after week. I'm not too intimately familiar with GFDL, but I'm pretty sure that the Force-Cast isn't exactly complying with it. Copyrights aside, common courtesy would dictate that credit should be given where it is due.
I know Riff has been made aware of the situation, as have others admins. If anyone would like to check other episodes against our articles, here is the full list. -- Ozzel 08:34, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Now the question is: where do you complain to for something such as this? -- Riffsyphon1024 09:10, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- You do an Anderson Tape! No need actually. I'll be grilling them like you wouldn't believe in WCIV. Kids, prepare for profanity...again. .... 09:17, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Isn't everything on Wookieepedia released under GDFL? So he can use it. Unless he's claiming to have written it himself. Jasca Ducato Sith Council Sith Campaign 09:19, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- I think the problem is that he gives us 0 credit, and basically claims it as his own. Or their own. Whatever. The Force-Cast is for kids. .... 09:22, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- He has to give us credit if he wishes to use our content. --Imp 09:32, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Right. It's the same as copying the articles word for word to another site, not including the contributor history and not saying where it came from. -- Riffsyphon1024 09:35, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- As far as contacting them goes, we could email them (podcast@theforce.net) or we could bring it up on their forum. I think before we do, though, we should check some of the other episodes. -- Ozzel 20:29, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- The Dark woman one is a nearly word-for-word copy. Something really needs to be done about this. Quoting Ozzel: "Thing is, I'm sure if he had asked at the get-go if he could feature our articles (with proper credit), we'd have jumped at the chance." —Xwing328(Talk) 00:26, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
- Also, their copyright disclaimer at the end of each 'cast states that all original content, unless otherwise noted, is the original intellectual property of TFN. Wookieepedia has not been noted. —Xwing328(Talk) 01:06, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
- As far as contacting them goes, we could email them (podcast@theforce.net) or we could bring it up on their forum. I think before we do, though, we should check some of the other episodes. -- Ozzel 20:29, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Right. It's the same as copying the articles word for word to another site, not including the contributor history and not saying where it came from. -- Riffsyphon1024 09:35, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- He has to give us credit if he wishes to use our content. --Imp 09:32, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- I think the problem is that he gives us 0 credit, and basically claims it as his own. Or their own. Whatever. The Force-Cast is for kids. .... 09:22, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Isn't everything on Wookieepedia released under GDFL? So he can use it. Unless he's claiming to have written it himself. Jasca Ducato Sith Council Sith Campaign 09:19, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- You do an Anderson Tape! No need actually. I'll be grilling them like you wouldn't believe in WCIV. Kids, prepare for profanity...again. .... 09:17, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- You'll notice from the Bultar Swan article changes here, they cut out a lot of content, but failed to changed much of the wording...again. —Xwing328(Talk) 02:17, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
- This does constitute a GFDL violation. The GFDL requires attribution and acknowledgement that the content is available under the GFDL, and they provided neither. I suggest we send them a version of Wikipedia:Standard GFDL violation letter adapted for our purposes, provided below. - Sikon 07:33, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
- These are the EU characters they did (in reverse order), though I haven't listened to all yet: Dark Woman, Bultar Swan, Koffi Arana, A'Sharad Hett, Oola, Wedge Antilles, Aayla Secura, Darth Bane, and Bossk. —Xwing328(Talk) 07:43, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
- The stuff below is good, but I think it needs more about Wookieepedia. Even if they do start giving the appropriate legal disclaimers, they need to be giving the site a plug before any future EU character segment. And also, they owe us a MAJOR apology. Additionally, their next "EU Character of the Week" needs to be Mount Sorrow. -- Ozzel 10:23, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
- Apology? Perhaps — but the issue is already controversial enough as it stands, no need to complicate it any more. After all, sharing is the point of Wookieepedia's licensing — the GFDL permits unrestricted modification and redistribution by third parties, commercial or not, provided that a) the original author receives attribution and b) the derivative work is itself licensed under the GFDL. If someone doesn't want their submissions to be freely used by anyone, they should not contribute to Wookieepedia, period. As long as TFN gives us attribution and licenses their Wookieepedia-derivative Force-Casts under the GFDL instead of making void "intellectual property of TFN" claims, I'm fine with it. - Sikon 10:56, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
- Wedge Antilles appears in the movies, too, not only in the EU. - Patricknoddy The Jedi Council 11:37, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
- Apology? Perhaps — but the issue is already controversial enough as it stands, no need to complicate it any more. After all, sharing is the point of Wookieepedia's licensing — the GFDL permits unrestricted modification and redistribution by third parties, commercial or not, provided that a) the original author receives attribution and b) the derivative work is itself licensed under the GFDL. If someone doesn't want their submissions to be freely used by anyone, they should not contribute to Wookieepedia, period. As long as TFN gives us attribution and licenses their Wookieepedia-derivative Force-Casts under the GFDL instead of making void "intellectual property of TFN" claims, I'm fine with it. - Sikon 10:56, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
- The stuff below is good, but I think it needs more about Wookieepedia. Even if they do start giving the appropriate legal disclaimers, they need to be giving the site a plug before any future EU character segment. And also, they owe us a MAJOR apology. Additionally, their next "EU Character of the Week" needs to be Mount Sorrow. -- Ozzel 10:23, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
- This is TFN we're talking about. Do you seriously expect they'll even respond, let alone apologize for or stop, this? Probably they'll try to sic their LFL masters onto us. Kuralyov 21:50, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
- They haven't responded. However, I have now brought the issue up on their forum. - Sikon 17:19, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- Now I have been banned and the thread deleted. The IRC people who were present and saw the thread - Jorrel, GT, Ineedaname, and possibly someone else - can confirm that the thread contained no flamebait or attacks, only a legal request. Any suggestions? - Sikon 18:17, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- I still have the original thread open if you want some screenshots of it, since it can no longer be accessed. —Xwing328(Talk) 18:31, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- That's truly bizarre: I emailed the rebelscum.com people a while back to get permission for the Jorg Sacul picture, and they were co-operative and polite about it. —Silly Dan (talk) 19:19, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- Just for the record, the 3/21/07 Micro-Cast does not plagiarize from Wookieepedia. In fact, they actually give credit to Bob Vitas and the CUSWE for this one. —Xwing328(Talk) 21:04, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- I believe he credits Bob "Vistas", actually, but yes, they use CUSWE and credit them now. And yet, still no mention of us. I can't wait for this supposed email we will be receiving. -- Ozzel 21:18, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- Just for the record, the 3/21/07 Micro-Cast does not plagiarize from Wookieepedia. In fact, they actually give credit to Bob Vitas and the CUSWE for this one. —Xwing328(Talk) 21:04, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- That's truly bizarre: I emailed the rebelscum.com people a while back to get permission for the Jorg Sacul picture, and they were co-operative and polite about it. —Silly Dan (talk) 19:19, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- I still have the original thread open if you want some screenshots of it, since it can no longer be accessed. —Xwing328(Talk) 18:31, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- Now I have been banned and the thread deleted. The IRC people who were present and saw the thread - Jorrel, GT, Ineedaname, and possibly someone else - can confirm that the thread contained no flamebait or attacks, only a legal request. Any suggestions? - Sikon 18:17, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- They haven't responded. However, I have now brought the issue up on their forum. - Sikon 17:19, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- According to sannse, the owners of wiki text are the authors themselves. In the case of the Dark Woman article, most of the text as quoted came from a big update written by Sparqman: [1] He might want to be notified, since he is the primary author. We should try to narrow down the authors of the plagiarized text in question. Enochf 23:35, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- So do we have a solution? Because right now, I am ticked. I'm not happy. I posted on a few forums there asking them to stop. Unfortunately, they are not nearly as well organized as us, and I couldn't find a complaints section. Chack Jadson 00:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
- That wasn't their forums, that was the Jedi Council forums. supergeeky1
The Cantina 00:56, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
- That wasn't their forums, that was the Jedi Council forums. supergeeky1
- So do we have a solution? Because right now, I am ticked. I'm not happy. I posted on a few forums there asking them to stop. Unfortunately, they are not nearly as well organized as us, and I couldn't find a complaints section. Chack Jadson 00:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
GFDL violation letter
Dear TheForce.Net staff:
We have noticed that you are making use of English Wookieepedia articles, in spoken form, as part of the Force-Casts located on TheForce.Net. Two examples are the spoken An'ya Kuro article (transcripted at http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Plagiarism_and_the_Force-Cast/An%27ya_Kuro ) and the spoken Bultar Swan article (transcripted at http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Plagiarism_and_the_Force-Cast/Bultar_Swan ), which include material from the Wookieepedia articles "An'ya Kuro" (located at http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/An%27ya_Kuro ) and "Bultar Swan" (located at http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bultar_Swan ), respectively.
Wookieepedia encourages the redistribution of our content. However, it is necessary to comply with the terms of our license, the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL). Failure to do so is a copyright violation. The text of the GFDL can be found at http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Text_of_the_GNU_Free_Documentation_License . That is the only legally binding document. However, some advice about how to comply with the GFDL can be found on Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights#Reusers.27_rights_and_obligations . One of the most important steps is to mention the GFDL. At the bottom of every page describing the infringing Force-Cast entries, you should include text similar to, "This audio file is based on the copyrighted Wookieepedia article (put article name here); it is used under the GNU Free Documentation License. You may redistribute it, verbatim or modified, providing that you comply with the terms of the GFDL." You should link the text "GNU Free Documentation License" to a copy of the text of the GFDL on your own server. Also, we strongly recommend that you link back to the original Wookieepedia article; this is a means to comply with certain GFDL requirements.
Thank you for your cooperation.
The Wookieepedia community
Email I received after being banned
From - Fri Mar 23 00:21:27 2007
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Subject: Account banned : "Sikon"
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Dear "SIKON",
We've removed your first post and banned your account=2E Had you been
more patient and waited for our reply you'd still have access to our
community=2E Instead you post accusational and confrontational content
about our podcast within our very own forum=2E This is something we
simply will not tolerate=2E
Look for an official response from our podcast team later tonight in
regards to your initial email complaint=2E
=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=
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Sincerely,
Dustin Roberts
dustin@rebelscum=2Ecom
Official Star Wars Fan Club President
Content Manager: Rebelscum=2Ecom & TheForce=2Enet
=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=
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=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E
As I said, I assert there was no "accusational and confrontational content". See above. - Sikon 18:22, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Original Threads.Rebelscum.com post
Here are screenshots of the original post, plus the text, copied-and-pasted:
Official Wookieepedia message: Copyright violation
#2467012 - 03/22/07 12:08 PM Edit Reply Quote
Greetings. I am Sikon, a bureaucrat on Wookieepedia, and I'm acting on behalf of the Wookieepedia community, as I was chosen to contact you at our latest IRC meeting.
The Force-Cast March 7 Microcast, as determined in this Wookieepedia forum thread, contains derivative works, in spoken form, of several Wookieepedia articles (see the link for a list).
Wookieepedia operates under the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL). It permits redistribution of derivative works, but under two conditions:
a) The original author must receive attribution. b) The derivative work must itself be licensed under the GFDL, and contain the corresponding notice.
Failure to comply with these terms is copyright violation, and any attempt to distribute Wookieepedia-derived works other than under the exact terms of the GFDL is void.
I sent an email to the Force-Cast crew on March 19, at 04:51 (UTC), and still haven't received a reply. I'm reposting the content of the message here.
Quote:
From - Mon Mar 19 10:51:31 2007 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00800000 Message-ID: <45FE16D0.8050107@lucidfox.org> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:51:28 +0600 From: Sikon <sikon@lucidfox.org> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0b1 (X11/20061206) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: podcast@theforce.net Subject: Wookieepedia copyright violation in the Force-Cast Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dear TheForce.Net staff:
We have noticed that you are making use of English Wookieepedia articles, in spoken form, as part of the Force-Casts located on TheForce.Net. Two examples are the spoken An'ya Kuro article (transcripted at http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Plagiarism_and_the_Force-Cast/An%27ya_Kuro ) and the spoken Bultar Swan article (transcripted at http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Plagiarism_and_the_Force-Cast/Bultar_Swan ), which include material from the Wookieepedia articles "An'ya Kuro" (located at http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/An%27ya_Kuro ) and "Bultar Swan" (located at http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bultar_Swan ), respectively.
Wookieepedia encourages the redistribution of our content. However, it is necessary to comply with the terms of our license, the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL). Failure to do so is a copyright violation. The text of the GFDL can be found at http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Text_of_the_GNU_Free_Documentation_License . That is the only legally binding document. However, some advice about how to comply with the GFDL can be found on Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights#Reusers.27_rights_and_obligations . One of the most important steps is to mention the GFDL. At the bottom of every page describing the infringing Force-Cast entries, you should include text similar to, "This audio file is based on the copyrighted Wookieepedia article (put article name here); it is used under the GNU Free Documentation License. You may redistribute it, verbatim or modified, providing that you comply with the terms of the GFDL." You should link the text "GNU Free Documentation License" to a copy of the text of the GFDL on your own server. Also, we strongly recommend that you link back to the original Wookieepedia article; this is a means to comply with certain GFDL requirements.
Thank you for your cooperation.
The Wookieepedia community
Having said that, on behalf of the community, I request the Force-Cast staff to:
1) Insert a spoken disclaimer into the March 7 Microcast saying that the spoken articles are based on Wookieepedia articles, and that this particular microcast is provided under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License. 2) Insert the same disclaimer onto the description page, in written form, linked to a copy of the GFDL hosted on TheForce.Net, as the license requires.
The rest of Wookieepedia will be notified about the issue and the existence of this thread.
Post Extras:
Copied from http://threads.rebelscum.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2467012&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#2467012 —Xwing328(Talk) 18:42, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
New email
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From: "Dustin Roberts" <dustin@rebelscum.com>
To: <inetperson@gmail.com>
Cc: <podcast@theforce.net>
References: <45FE16D0.8050107@lucidfox.org> <38e42260703221537r5215b2cax8040178200882f01@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: RE: Wookieepedia copyright violation in the Force-Cast [TfnPodCast]
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 20:29:01 -0400
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Thanks for contacting the Force-Cast studios. This e-mail is in regards to a
message sent on March 19, 2007 from "Sikon" referencing concerns with two
segments of our show dealing with the Expanded Universe.
First, we just want to point out and assure you that we have spoken to our
co-host Peter about the appropriate use of such material. We feel that he
understands, and is aware of the proper handling of these reports in the
future. But to make sure that the issue is not lost, he has been placed on a
one week suspension from our show, beginning next week.
Next, we are having difficulty verifying the copyright information listed on
the following pages
<http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/An%27ya_Kuro>
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/An%27ya_Kuro
<http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bultar_Swan>
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bultar_Swan
The GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL) that is referenced in the email
makes reference to the "This License [applying] to any ... work, in any
medium, that contains a notice placed by the copyright holder ..." As we are
aware that Lucasfilm is the copyright holder of these characters, and see no
copyright mark of any sort within the page, we felt that there was in fact
no violation. The reference to the 'Reusers' rights and obligations' section
of the Wikipedia Copyright page is much appreciated, however, as mentioned
above we can find no link to that document from either of the two pages in
question. Nor, does it appear to exist on the same domain as Wookieepedia (
<http://starwars.wikia.com> http://starwars.wikia.com ).
As part of our policy at the Force-Cast, we normally refrain from taking any
action on any such abuse under advisement (whether towards the show or our
staffers) when not accompanied by the correspondents name. We frown on the
use of hiding behind monikers, screen, or nick names when addressing content
concerns with our shows. You'll find that all staffers at The Force-Cast use
their full names within their correspondence. This being said we can also
not verify that the text on those pages a) is under your control, b) is
unaltered from the day of release of the podcast in question, c) has not
been altered to conform to your statements.
We have taken your suggestions under advisement and would be happy to work
with you, of course, on any future episodes of the Force-Cast, when
referencing material from the Wookieepedia website (
<http://starwars.wikia.com> http://starwars.wikia.com/ ) to provide proper
links and reference to the page that the work derives from. As mentioned
before we are more than happy to give any credit, where credit is due.
Thanks very much for your concerns and we look forward to building a
relationship on future projects.
Sincerely,
Dustin Roberts
Official Star Wars Fan Club President
Content Manager for Rebelscum.com - TheForce.net - R2D2Central.com
_____
From: Sikon <inetperson@gmail.com>
Date: Mar 19, 2007 12:51 AM
Subject: Wookieepedia copyright violation in the Force-Cast [TfnPodCast]
To: podcast@theforce.net
Dear TheForce.Net staff:
We have noticed that you are making use of English Wookieepedia
articles, in spoken form, as part of the Force-Casts located on
TheForce.Net. Two examples are the spoken An'ya Kuro article
(transcripted at
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Plagiarism_and_the_Force-Cast/An%27ya_K
uro
) and the spoken Bultar Swan article (transcripted at
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Plagiarism_and_the_Force-Cast/Bultar_Sw
an
), which include material from the Wookieepedia articles "An'ya Kuro"
(located at http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/An%27ya_Kuro ) and "Bultar
Swan" (located at http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bultar_Swan ),
respectively.
Wookieepedia encourages the redistribution of our content. However, it
is necessary to comply with the terms of our license, the GNU Free
Documentation License (GFDL). Failure to do so is a copyright violation.
The text of the GFDL can be found at
http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Text_of_the_GNU_Free_Documentation_License .
That is the only legally binding document. However, some advice about
how to comply with the GFDL can be found on Wikipedia at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights#Reusers.27_rights_and_obli
gations
. One of the most important steps is to mention the GFDL. At the bottom
of every page describing the infringing Force-Cast entries, you should
include text similar to, "This audio file is based on the copyrighted
Wookieepedia article (put article name here); it is used under the GNU
Free Documentation License. You may redistribute it, verbatim or
modified, providing that you comply with the terms of the GFDL." You
should link the text "GNU Free Documentation License" to a copy of the
text of the GFDL on your own server. Also, we strongly recommend that
you link back to the original Wookieepedia article; this is a means to
comply with certain GFDL requirements.
Thank you for your cooperation.
The Wookieepedia community
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks for contacting the =
Force-Cast
studios. This e-mail is in regards to a message sent on March 19, 2007 =
from
"Sikon" referencing concerns with two segments of our show =
dealing
with the Expanded Universe.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>First, we just want to point out =
and
assure you that we have spoken to our co-host Peter about the =
appropriate use
of such material. We feel that he understands, and is aware of the =
proper
handling of these reports in the future. But to make sure that the issue =
is not
lost, he has been placed on a one week suspension from our show, =
beginning next
week.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Next, we are having difficulty =
verifying
the copyright information listed on the following =
pages<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><a
href=3D"http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/An%27ya_Kuro"
title=3D"http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/An%27ya_Kuro"><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy'>http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/An%27ya_Kuro</span></=
font></a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><a
href=3D"http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bultar_Swan"
title=3D"http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bultar_Swan"><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy'>http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bultar_Swan</span></f=
ont></a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The GNU Free Documentation License =
(GFDL)
that is referenced in the email makes reference to the "This =
License
[applying] to any ... work, in any medium, that contains a notice placed =
by the
copyright holder ..." As we are aware that Lucasfilm is the =
copyright
holder of these characters, and see no copyright mark of any sort within =
the
page, we felt that there was in fact no violation. The reference to the
'Reusers' rights and obligations' section of the Wikipedia Copyright =
page is
much appreciated, however, as mentioned above we can find no link to =
that
document from either of the two pages in question. Nor, does it appear =
to exist
on the same domain as Wookieepedia ( <a =
href=3D"http://starwars.wikia.com"
title=3D"http://starwars.wikia.com/"><font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'>http://starwars.wikia.com</span></font></a>
).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>As part of our policy at the =
Force-Cast,
we normally refrain from taking any action on any such abuse under =
advisement
(whether towards the show or our staffers) when not accompanied by the
correspondents name. We frown on the use of hiding behind monikers, =
screen, or
nick names when addressing content concerns with our shows. You'll find =
that
all staffers at The Force-Cast use their full names within their
correspondence. This being said we can also not verify that the text on =
those
pages a) is under your control, b) is unaltered from the day of release =
of the
podcast in question, c) has not been altered to conform to your =
statements.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>We have taken your suggestions =
under
advisement and would be happy to work with you, of course, on any future
episodes of the Force-Cast, when referencing material from the =
Wookieepedia
website ( <a href=3D"http://starwars.wikia.com" =
title=3D"http://starwars.wikia.com/"><font
color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'>http://starwars.wikia.com</span></font></a>/
) to provide proper links and reference to the page that the work =
derives from.
As mentioned before we are more than happy to give any credit, where =
credit is
due.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks very much for your concerns =
and we
look forward to building a relationship on future =
projects.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Sincerely,</span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Dustin Roberts</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Official Star Wars Fan Club =
President</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Content Manager for Rebelscum.com -
TheForce.net - R2D2Central.com</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>
</span></font></div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<span class=3Dgmailquote>From: <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sikon</span></b>
<<a =
href=3D"mailto:inetperson@gmail.com">inetperson@gmail.com</a>></span><=
br>
<span class=3Dgmailquote>Date: Mar 19, 2007 12:51 AM </span><br>
<span class=3Dgmailquote>Subject: Wookieepedia copyright violation in =
the
Force-Cast [TfnPodCast]</span><br>
<span class=3Dgmailquote>To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:podcast@theforce.net">podcast@theforce.net</a></span><br>
<br>
Dear TheForce.Net staff:<br>
<br>
We have noticed that you are making use of English Wookieepedia <br>
articles, in spoken form, as part of the Force-Casts located on<br>
TheForce.Net. Two examples are the spoken An'ya Kuro article<br>
(transcripted at<br>
<a
href=3D"http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Plagiarism_and_the_Force-Cas=
t/An%27ya_Kuro">http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Plagiarism_and_the_F=
orce-Cast/An%27ya_Kuro</a><br>
) and the spoken Bultar Swan article (transcripted at<br>
<a
href=3D"http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Plagiarism_and_the_Force-Cas=
t/Bultar_Swan">http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Plagiarism_and_the_Fo=
rce-Cast/Bultar_Swan</a><br>
), which include material from the Wookieepedia articles "An'ya =
Kuro"<br>
(located at <a =
href=3D"http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/An%27ya_Kuro">http://starwars.wiki=
a.com/wiki/An%27ya_Kuro</a>
) and "Bultar<br>
Swan" (located at <a =
href=3D"http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bultar_Swan">http://starwars.wikia=
.com/wiki/Bultar_Swan</a>
),<br>
respectively.<br>
<br>
Wookieepedia encourages the redistribution of our content. However, it =
<br>
is necessary to comply with the terms of our license, the GNU Free<br>
Documentation License (GFDL). Failure to do so is a copyright =
violation.<br>
The text of the GFDL can be found at<br>
<a =
href=3D"http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Text_of_the_GNU_Free_Documentation_Lice=
nse">http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Text_of_the_GNU_Free_Documentation_License=
</a>
.<br>
That is the only legally binding document. However, some advice =
about<br>
how to comply with the GFDL can be found on Wikipedia at<br>
<a
href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights#Reusers.27_righ=
ts_and_obligations">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights#Reu=
sers.27_rights_and_obligations</a><br>
. One of the most important steps is to mention the GFDL. At the =
bottom<br>
of every page describing the infringing Force-Cast entries, you should =
<br>
include text similar to, "This audio file is based on the =
copyrighted<br>
Wookieepedia article (put article name here); it is used under the =
GNU<br>
Free Documentation License. You may redistribute it, verbatim or<br>
modified, providing that you comply with the terms of the GFDL." =
You<br>
should link the text "GNU Free Documentation License" to a =
copy of
the<br>
text of the GFDL on your own server. Also, we strongly recommend that =
<br>
you link back to the original Wookieepedia article; this is a means =
to<br>
comply with certain GFDL requirements.<br>
<br>
Thank you for your cooperation.<br>
<br>
The Wookieepedia community<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C76CC0.BC44BAD0--
- Sikon 01:47, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
- Okay, overall, I think this response is good news. But we obviously need to inform them of two things: 1) This little thing we have on wikis called the "edit history" which will allow to prove we aren't liars. 2) The GNU FDL link that is at the bottom left of every page on this site. -- Ozzel 03:14, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
- And 2a) that it applies to starwars.wikia.com despite appearing on www.wikia.com. —Silly Dan (talk) 03:28, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
- Agreed Ozzel. I was going to add that about edit history. Now we just have to find the exact edit version that corresponds with the version that was read from. -- Riffsyphon1024 04:09, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
- And 2a) that it applies to starwars.wikia.com despite appearing on www.wikia.com. —Silly Dan (talk) 03:28, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Proposed reply
Dear Mr. Roberts and the Force-Cast staff,
Thank you for your reply and your willingness to cooperate. It is good to know that you will be more vigilant in the future, although I do stand by the original request to put the necessary disclaimer on the description page of the episode in question. It was not necessary to go as far as banning one of your contributors, who, I believe, acted in good faith. All we wanted was attribution that Wookieepedia contributors deserve and GFDL compliance. It was not even a takedown letter.
There are also several points in your reply that I feel obliged to clarify.
The absence of a copyright notice does not mean the absence of copyright itself; copyright is granted to the author by the law automatically, upon creation of the work in question. Neither Wookieepedia nor TheForce.Net, obviously, do not claim copyright of any original stories, text excerpts, images, audio or video fragments as released by Lucasfilm; these works are copyrighted by Lucasfilm, and fragments of them are used on Star Wars fansites under the fair use clause of U.S. copyright law, as it is generally believed that Lucasfilm is unlikely to enforce its copyright against fansites, except for blatant violations. However, any original Star Wars content is still copyrighted by Lucasfilm, even if no explicit copyright notice is given.
Similarly, any original content posted on the Web is copyrighted by its author, whether or not they included a copyright notice. By default, unless the author explicitly released some rights, the author holds the exclusive right to copy, modify and redistribute the copyrighted work. Wookieepedia requires its users to release their edits under the GFDL, via this notice on the edit form (with links): "You agree to license your contributions under the GFDL (see Wookieepedia:Copyrights for more details).", thus ensuring that the contributors do not hold exclusive rights.
You can see, therefore, that while you are not required to accept the GFDL (as you have not signed it), nothing else can give you the right to reuse the text content of any Wookieepedia article, which, by itself, constitutes an original work. This also applies to the articles in question: while the characters were created by Lucasfilm, and the works they appear in are copyrighted by Lucasfilm, the text content of the articles is original, and that is what the articles' contributors hold copyright to. The absence of a copyright notice would simply mean that the author holds all rights, while the reader has none, and redistribution under any terms is prohibited.
However, hypothetical absence of a notice aside, I should point out that in Wookieepedia's case, a copyright notice does exist at the bottom of every Wookieepedia page.
1. The "GNU FDL: Free Doc License" button points to the text of the GFDL hosted by the Free Software Foundation. 2. The "About Wikia" link points to http://www.wikia.com/wiki/About_Wikia . The "Copyrights" section of that page says (quote): "The text of all Wikia sites is freely licensed under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL). Reusers of the content must retain it under the same licence, ensuring it remains free. Please read the text of the GNU Free Documentation License for full details of this licence. See also Designated agent." In compliance with the terms of the GFDL, it links to a copy of the GFDL stored on the servers of Wikia, Inc., our hosting provider.
The Wikipedia copyrights page I mentioned in the previous email is not, by itself, a legally binding document. It is merely a guideline, clarifying the terms of the GFDL in more informal words. I only linked to that to make it clearer what the GFDL requires.
Considering your concerns about the articles being modified after the Force-Cast episode was released. Every Wookieepedia article has a history page, which records all information about the edits made to the article since its creation. You can see who made an edit and when, view an older revision, and see what exactly was changed by using the "diff" link. For instance, you can see the articles as they were before the episode was released. This information is recorded automatically by the MediaWiki software. The ordinary users and even administrators of Wookieepedia have no direct access to the database stored on Wikia's servers, and I hope you find Wikia, presided by Wikipedia's founder Jimmy Wales, a respectable enough company to discard any thought that it may have tampered with the database.
Thank you for your time. I hope that the request for a GFDL notice, at least in written form on the description page, will be fulfilled, and I hope that Wookieepedia and TheForce.Net will have no complaints to each other in the future.
Sikon
P.S. Sorry for not providing my real name. At this point, I see no reason to. I think I already have enough personal information on my Wookieepedia userpage, including a photo and a date and place of birth.
Dustin Roberts wrote:
>
> Thanks for contacting the Force-Cast studios. This e-mail is in regards to a message sent on March 19, 2007 from "Sikon" referencing concerns with two segments of our show dealing with the Expanded Universe.
>
>
>
> First, we just want to point out and assure you that we have spoken to our co-host Peter about the appropriate use of such material. We feel that he understands, and is aware of the proper handling of these reports in the future. But to make sure that the issue is not lost, he has been placed on a one week suspension from our show, beginning next week.
>
>
>
> Next, we are having difficulty verifying the copyright information listed on the following pages
>
> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/An%27ya_Kuro
>
> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bultar_Swan
>
>
>
> The GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL) that is referenced in the email makes reference to the "This License [applying] to any ... work, in any medium, that contains a notice placed by the copyright holder ..." As we are aware that Lucasfilm is the copyright holder of these characters, and see no copyright mark of any sort within the page, we felt that there was in fact no violation. The reference to the 'Reusers' rights and obligations' section of the Wikipedia Copyright page is much appreciated, however, as mentioned above we can find no link to that document from either of the two pages in question. Nor, does it appear to exist on the same domain as Wookieepedia ( http://starwars.wikia.com ).
>
>
>
> As part of our policy at the Force-Cast, we normally refrain from taking any action on any such abuse under advisement (whether towards the show or our staffers) when not accompanied by the correspondents name. We frown on the use of hiding behind monikers, screen, or nick names when addressing content concerns with our shows. You'll find that all staffers at The Force-Cast use their full names within their correspondence. This being said we can also not verify that the text on those pages a) is under your control, b) is unaltered from the day of release of the podcast in question, c) has not been altered to conform to your statements.
>
>
>
> We have taken your suggestions under advisement and would be happy to work with you, of course, on any future episodes of the Force-Cast, when referencing material from the Wookieepedia website ( http://starwars.wikia.com/ ) to provide proper links and reference to the page that the work derives from. As mentioned before we are more than happy to give any credit, where credit is due.
>
>
>
> Thanks very much for your concerns and we look forward to building a relationship on future projects.
>
>
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Dustin Roberts
>
> Official Star Wars Fan Club President
>
> Content Manager for Rebelscum.com - TheForce.net - R2D2Central.com
- Sikon 07:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
- Reply sent. - Sikon 15:57, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
- Nice response. Stake black msg 14:48, 24 March 2007 (UTC)