Forum:CT:Wookieepedia and the Licensed Insider Video Proposal: Time to Vote!

This section is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This section is no longer live. Further comments should be made in open discussion area or a new section rather than here so that this section is preserved as a historic record.
The result of the debate was Oppose using videos. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 01:38, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

Do we want these videos?

It's self-explanatory, and the discussion in the SH thread was favoring it, but I'll put it to an official vote here. Trak Nar ^{Ramble on} 03:51, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

Support

1. Menkooroo (talk) 14:02, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
2. grunny@wookieepedia:~$ 14:10, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
3. Yes, I dare say we do. Corellian Premier^{The Force will be with you always} 16:57, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
4. IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 06:07, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
5. No one seems to mind that we have audio files, so why not video. Rokkur Shen (talk) 00:33, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

Oppose

1. No videos. At all. Ever. -- Darth Culator ^(Talk) 14:38, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
2. Per Culator. We've fought hard to keep Wikia out of our affairs in the past. I don't see why we should willingly allow them into our affairs now. We've made a great wiki without videos, and we can continue to be great without Wikia's videos.—Cal Jedi ^{(Personal Comm Channel)} 17:52, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
3. Per Cal and Culator.--Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 04:00, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
4. I'm still very concerned about the licensed aspect of these videos. The license will eventually expire, and then we're left with articles that point to videos that don't exist anymore. ~Savage 04:44, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
5. I'm against the addition of videos on pedagogical grounds, as I believe it participates in that regrettable modern-day logic of "audio-visual > writing/reading." If we're going to have embedded videos featuring BtS content, why would the users still bother *reading* that same content on the same page when video is "more fun"? However, I don't delude myself, I know my opinion comes from another age. I'm pretty sure the outcome of the vote will turn in favor of adding the videos, but that does not prevent me from expressing my views. Besides, I respect the fact that other users have a different opinion, and I'll endorse the community decision whatever it turns to be. --LelalMekha (talk) 10:46, January 15, 2013 (UTC)
6. I've been following this thread pretty religiously since it appeared a few days ago, and been doing my damndest to withhold judgement until I've had time to really consider this through and see as many of the for/against arguments as I can. And because I know that we're not always the most inviting group, I do want to personally extend thanks to Sarah for being involved in the process here and attempting to answer questions to the best of her ability. Unfortunately (and to be clear, this is not to call out/attack Sara), what I'm reading is not inspiring much confidence. I'm seeing quite a lot of unknowns and unclears and still-working-things-outs, which all reads to me that if I vote yes on the proposal, I'd be voting in favour of proverbially handing someone my keys without knowing what they plan to do with my car. I will absolutely take the time to reconsider my vote should this Eric guy show some fascinating content, but as the proposal currently stands, there's just no way I can bring myself to support it. — DigiFluid^{(Whine here)} 19:04, January 15, 2013 (UTC)
7. Per Cal and Lelal. Winterz (talk) 23:55, January 16, 2013 (UTC)
8. I've given this serious thought since Trak and I had dinner with Eric at CVI, and having read all the comments here, I'm voting essentially per DigiFluid. While I like the concept and think it could help enhance the site, I'm seeing too many unknowns with the current implementation to be able to support at this time. If we can get more concrete answers on licensing arrangements, exclusive content, and the like at some point in the future, I would certainly be willing to reconsider the matter then, but as it stands now, I'm just not comfortable supporting. —MJ— _Comlink 00:17, January 17, 2013 (UTC)
9. ToRsO bOy (talk) 01:10, January 18, 2013 (UTC)
10. I, too, will have to pass on this for the moment, until something more concrete comes up. If anything, we'll have the rest of the stuff hashed out by then; how to decide on the content, what should be done with it, and who would be able to upload it. Those things I think are more important to decide upon at the moment. The videos can wait until we have something more to go on. Trak Nar ^{Ramble on} 08:00, January 18, 2013 (UTC)
11. JangFett ^(Talk) 01:16, January 19, 2013 (UTC)
12. Solidifying my vote here now. -- Riffsyphon1024 06:06, January 24, 2013 (UTC)
13. I like words. Karohalva (talk) 07:10, January 24, 2013 (UTC)
14. I think I've pretty much said my piece in the comments below. There may come a time when we place greater consideration in using exclusive video content, but that time is not now. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 17:27, January 24, 2013 (UTC)
15. CC7567 ^(talk) 21:46, January 24, 2013 (UTC)
16. It may just be me, but I find most videos make a wiki look unprofessional. Secondly, the amount of vidoes put in articles could get way out of hand. 501st dogma^(talk) 20:12, January 27, 2013 (UTC)
17. For now. 1358 ^(Talk) 19:29, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

• Keep it civil, kids. :P Trak Nar ^{Ramble on} 03:51, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
• I've gone ahead and voted on the other three questions so that my opinions are counted, but as I stated below, I am extremely hesitant to agree that we should do this. For the time being I'm going to abstain so that I have a little more time to think about it. — DigiFluid^{(Whine here)} 17:19, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
• Even though I've been directly involved in working this whole thing out with Wikia, I'm still agnostic about whether I personally agree with it. I've voted on the issues below, but I will hold my vote here until I've thought it over a bit more and seen comments from others. —MJ— _Comlink 01:06, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
• For the moment, I'm abstaining. However, based on the two videos presented to us at the moment, I also agree that I do not see anything particularly exclusive, and can access these elsewhere on the net. My default approach would be to keep Wookieepedia video free, but I need a better idea of what we're dealing with here, and how it will actually be beneficial to Wookieepedia to have in the first place. -- Riffsyphon1024 23:16, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

Licence?

• SavageBob raises an interesting point regarding licensing—what sort of licence period are we talking about here? Six months? A year? Five? What does the licence extend to? Only the Wook (in which case we'd look like jerks if they made one and we said we didn't want it), or is it going to be more open and available to other sites (which would in theory attract visitors to those sites rather than ours)? On an unrelated note, I have to wonder, does 'officially licensed material' obligate us to treat it with more attention and/or respect than we might treat other additions? — DigiFluid^{(Whine here)} 16:04, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Hi, The licensing will depend on the provider, whether its say Lucas or another distributor, such as IGN. On the video wiki we have many providers, and are working hard to build more partnerships. We are also working on creating product tools that will tell you when and if a clip may expire. Currently we do not yet have a signed contract with Lucas, so I can not say what the expiration date would be. If and when those that happens, we can provide more info. Sorry this is not concrete, but every provider has different rules and unfortunately there isn't a standard time. --Sarah (help forum | blog) 19:04, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

And what exactly would happen when the license expires? Our content is made with the (illusory, yes) intention of being permanent, not temporary. As these licenses expire, we'll have growing problems with verifiability. Stake black ^msg 19:18, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

We are exploring how to handle this now. From a product perspective we are working to develop notifications, so you will be aware as the expiration date draws closer. From a content perspective, we would work to find a replacement or updated version of the same content. Since this is deal dependent, I can not say for sure an exact answer. --Sarah (help forum | blog) 17:55, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

Let's see 'em

• Although I do see merit in the general idea and purpose of documenting supposed never-before-seen video content, I am extremely reluctant to support this, and entirely inclined to oppose it, at least until I can get a better idea of what these videos are. I would like to actually see them, or some examples of them, before I ever sign onto this. Respectfully speaking, I'm giving someone a chance to show me examples of these videos before opposing this idea on the grounds of not trusting something before I can actually see it. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 21:44, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
  • I've emailed the people from Wikia that Trak and I have been working with and asked them to post links to some specific examples. Being that it's the weekend right now, it may be a couple of days before they respond. —MJ— _Comlink 01:06, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
    • Sounds good, thanks. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 01:48, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
      • Hi, Here are two examples that we have already on the video wiki. A Behind the Scenes clip and a clip from the Clone Wars. There are others on the video wiki if you search there. Eric Moro, who is mentioned above, is currently out on vacation, but when he returns I can ask him to share more links. --Sarah (help forum | blog) 19:04, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
        • Thank you for sharing these. Speaking generally, I think it bears pointing out that neither of these two videos are any sort of exclusive, never-before-seen content. The first IGN video can be found easily on IGN.com, and the second is just a generic video clip from that TCW episode. The original SH thread made it sound to me like this was going to primarily be for BTS video content that we couldn't access or find anywhere else, but this doesn't appear to be the case at all. It just seems like we're voting to implement the use of in-article videos in general, which is treading into territory I'm not inclined to support. We already do externally-link to these kinds of videos in in-line referencing when appropriate. I don't think there's any tremendous additional value in actually being able to legally host a video ourselves. Is there anything else I'm missing here? Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 19:29, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
        • I'm inclined to agree with Tope here. While I appreciate you taking the time to scare up some demonstration videos, my concerns are the same as his: these do not appear to be the sort of 'exclusive content' which was discussed in the original Senate Hall thread. Now, to be clear, I realize that this Eric Moro fellow may have some different material to demonstrate, and I'll try to continue to reserve judgement until I see what he's got to show. But if these are the sorts of videos we can expect from this, I'll most definitely be voting against the proposal. — DigiFluid^{(Whine here)} 19:57, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Ok thanks for letting me know your opinions on the type of content we have right now. As I mentioned Eric is away right now, so hopefully its ok that I get back to once he is back early next week. Thanks, --Sarah (help forum | blog) 22:15, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

The Bright Side

Ok, just throwing this out there: potential bright sides from this could mean exclusive content — not just BtS stuff, but actual new canon information, preferrably (are you reading this, Wikia?) — and a closer relation with Lucasfilm/Disney, which could work in our favour. Stake black ^msg 19:27, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Update

Hi All, So Eric is now back and has begun conversations with Lucas. Setting up the meetings though takes time so we won't have any official content example or update we can provide for a couple weeks. If you want to hold off on the main vote until after Eric has finished meeting with the Lucas people, we'll hopefully have more information for you to consider and discuss. Let me know any further questions you have, and I'll do my best to respond. Thanks for your patience, --Sarah (help forum | blog) 17:51, January 23, 2013 (UTC)

• I think one of the main concerns would be licensing. But, thanks for looking into this. :) Trak Nar ^{Ramble on} 07:19, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

This section is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This section is no longer live. Further comments should be made in open discussion area or a new section rather than here so that this section is preserved as a historic record.
The result of the debate was Potentially use videos on a case-by-case basis. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 01:38, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

How should we use these?

While discussion favored behind-the-scenes usage, I'll still put it to vote. Do you want solely behind-the-scene usage? General media usage, such as cinematic game trailers? Determine the use on a case-by-case basis? Trak Nar ^{Ramble on} 03:51, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

Behind-the-scenes only

General media usage

Case-by-case basis

1. I can see videos being useful for a very small amount of in-universe content, such as lightsaber forms. BTS only is a good way to start, but no harm in leaving this option open for the future. Menkooroo (talk) 14:02, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
2. Per Menk, best not to box ourselves in here, let's leave the option open to how we use each video. grunny@wookieepedia:~$ 14:10, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
3. If we must have videos, not having a blanket policy for when to use them gives me more opportunity to shout down anyone who tries to use one. -- Darth Culator ^(Talk) 14:38, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
4. Per Menk/Grunny. — DigiFluid^{(Whine here)} 17:15, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
5. Per Culator.—Cal Jedi ^{(Personal Comm Channel)} 17:52, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
6. Flexibility is the key here. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 21:27, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
7. Per Menk, Grunny, and Tope. —MJ— _Comlink 01:06, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
8. Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 04:00, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
9. IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 06:07, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
10. ~Savage 04:46, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
11. I'm thinking a majority will be in Bts sections, but Menk says it pretty will. Commander Code-8 ^{To say hi, press 42} 10:01, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
12. Stake black ^msg 19:19, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
13. LelalMekha (talk) 19:42, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
14. Rokkur Shen (talk) 00:34, January 15, 2013 (UTC)
15. JangFett ^(Talk) 01:17, January 19, 2013 (UTC)
16. CC7567 ^(talk) 21:46, January 24, 2013 (UTC)
17. 1358 ^(Talk) 19:29, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

Civility and all that jazz. Trak Nar ^{Ramble on} 03:51, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

A detailed transcript of the videos would be a good idea to allow verifiability when the licenses expire. Stake black ^msg 18:00, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

This section is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This section is no longer live. Further comments should be made in open discussion area or a new section rather than here so that this section is preserved as a historic record.
The result of the debate was No consensus. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 01:38, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

Committee or policy?

So, how do we want to approach these videos? Do we draft up an official policy pointing out what the videos require in order to meet our needs? Do we set up a committee of users who are willing to preview the videos before upload? If we set up a committee, at least one of those users should have access to the video upload account (I'll call it "Guri" for now). Basically, Guri would be a bot, all she's used for is video upload, nothing else. If we choose an official policy, we'll need to decide what goes in it, and that's another SH discussion entirely. Trak Nar ^{Ramble on} 03:51, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

Official policy

1. Not a fan of the idea of creating another committee. Menkooroo (talk) 14:02, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

   Rokkur Shen (talk) 00:35, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

Committee

1. If this does go through, I'm totally in favor of an approval committee to streamline the process. -- Darth Culator ^(Talk) 14:38, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
2. Definitely committee. I'm extremely apprehensive about this, so if this passes, I'd like it to be as strictly controlled as we can manage. This seems like the best option to that end. — DigiFluid^{(Whine here)} 17:16, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
3. Definately per Culator. Supreme Emperor (talk) 17:30, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
4. Per above. We need to keep videos out, or at the very least restricted.—Cal Jedi ^{(Personal Comm Channel)} 17:52, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
5. Per all the above. I'm usually against creating a bigger bureaucracy, but this is probably something that will be need to be determined on a case-by-case basis, in which case a single policy simply won't be able to cover everything. We need some flexibility here. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 21:27, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
6. Per Tope. —MJ— _Comlink 01:06, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
7. Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 04:00, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
8. IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 06:07, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
9. Commander Code-8 ^{To say hi, press 42} 10:01, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
10. Per Culator. Stake black ^msg 19:40, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

    Per Tope. LelalMekha (talk) 19:43, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

11. An open vote/CT can always happen if someone disagrees with a decision of a committee. grunny@wookieepedia:~$ 13:15, January 15, 2013 (UTC)
12. Time to discuss this in a committee JangFett ^(Talk) 01:18, January 19, 2013 (UTC)
13. CC7567 ^(talk) 21:46, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

Both. Can't hurt to have both

Put videos up for CT

1. Committee might be faster, but this way is more democratic. ~Savage 13:08, January 15, 2013 (UTC)
2. LelalMekha (talk) 13:12, January 15, 2013 (UTC)
3. NaruHina ^Talk 22:59, January 16, 2013 (UTC)
4. I like this idea, personally. Trak Nar ^{Ramble on} 08:05, January 18, 2013 (UTC)
5. Combined with official policy. Rokkur Shen (talk) 10:52, January 18, 2013 (UTC)
6. 501st dogma^(talk) 20:08, January 27, 2013 (UTC)
7. 1358 ^(Talk) 19:29, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

You know the drill. :P Trak Nar ^{Ramble on} 03:51, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

• Why not another option? Some admin or another has access to the proposed video, then describes it in a CT, and we all vote on whether it merits inclusion or not. We'd have to choose someone to be our video liaison, but I'd rather not have either of the options above if the whole community can have a say each and every time. ~Savage 04:48, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
  • I like that idea, actually, and have added another option. Trak Nar ^{Ramble on} 03:54, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

This section is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This section is no longer live. Further comments should be made in open discussion area or a new section rather than here so that this section is preserved as a historic record.
The result of the debate was Potential user upload account for videos will be available to sysops only. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 01:38, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

The video upload account

How should we handle Guri (or whatever you want to call the account, feel free to start a poll)? As mentioned several times, this account would be a moderated account used solely for the uploading of videos. Nothing else. So, who should have access? Do we allow any user access upon request? Sysop-only? Attach the account as a bot to one person, only? How do you want to handle this? Trak Nar ^{Ramble on} 03:51, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

User access upon request

1. I like the openness of this option. We're "The Star Wars encyclopedia that anyone can edit," after all. Keeping it user access upon request is far less restrictive than sysop only but still restrictive enough to keep the crap out. Menkooroo (talk) 14:02, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
   • I'd like to mention that users can request a sysop to upload a video. The sysop-only option doesn't entirely negate user request, it just doesn't allow user access. Trak Nar ^{Ramble on} 08:04, January 18, 2013 (UTC)

Sysop only

1. Video uploading is going to be a bloody mess no matter what. This will make it less of one. -- Darth Culator ^(Talk) 14:38, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
2. Most definitely per Culator. — DigiFluid^{(Whine here)} 17:17, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
3. YES. This may be the wiki that anyone can edit, but not everyone gets access to everything. This is why we have admins and BCs. Sensitive material needs to be handled by the sysops. They were voted in because the community trusted them enough to be able to handle situations such as this.—Cal Jedi ^{(Personal Comm Channel)}
4. Extremely per Culator and Cal. User requests to upload videos is one thing. But it needs to be monitored and controlled by duly trusted individuals. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 21:24, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
5. Per Cal and Tope. —MJ— _Comlink 01:06, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
6. Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 04:00, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
7. IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 06:07, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
8. I doubt Wikia or LFL/Disney would accept anything else. ~Savage 04:49, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
9. The user request thing could result in a lot of garbage stuffed on wherever the requests are made, so I'll go with this option. Commander Code-8 ^{To say hi, press 42} 10:01, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
10. Stake black ^msg 19:20, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
11. Atarumaster88 ^{(Talk page)} 05:56, January 15, 2013 (UTC)
12. grunny@wookieepedia:~$ 13:16, January 15, 2013 (UTC)
13. If I fully supported the measure, this is where access should remain. -- Riffsyphon1024 23:17, January 16, 2013 (UTC)
14. Winterz (talk) 00:19, January 17, 2013 (UTC)
15. ToRsO bOy (talk) 01:09, January 18, 2013 (UTC)
16. If it's sysop only, it doesn't totally remove the "user request" option, as a user can request a sysop to view the video and put it up for a vote. Making the account sysop-only helps us to moderate it. Trak Nar ^{Ramble on} 08:03, January 18, 2013 (UTC)
17. Yeah... JangFett ^(Talk) 01:17, January 19, 2013 (UTC)
18. CC7567 ^(talk) 21:46, January 24, 2013 (UTC)
19. 1358 ^(Talk) 19:29, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Bot attached to one member's account

Discussion

What would be a good name for this account? Trak Nar ^{Ramble on} 03:51, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

• HoloNet News? Or just The HoloNet? Menkooroo (talk) 14:02, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
  • RoboCop. IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 06:07, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
  • Wookieewide NewsNets? Stake black ^msg 19:29, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
  • Hey, Tarkin is apparently alive enough to respond to the White House, so how about Wilhuff? NaruHina ^Talk 22:57, January 16, 2013 (UTC)
• If anything, I prefer something along the lines of the HK-series. Meatbags. -- Riffsyphon1024 23:12, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

Hi, We are actually working right now to make it so the related video module is sysop only. There filter should be available in about 6 weeks, so just keep that in mind. I will keep you updated as to the release date. --Sarah (help forum | blog) 19:06, January 14, 2013 (UTC)